#clojure – 2010-10-31

2010-10-31

00:20	rata_	Raynes: so users of a library must remember which functions are in each of its (sub-)namespaces?
00:25	somnium	rata_: you could take a look at the way Aleph is organized, it goes to some length to make a convenient front end for library users
00:26	Raynes	rata_: The idea is to make it so that where things come from are generally documented. Requiring namespaces and explicitly taking only what you need from a namespace via use with :only fulfills that.
00:28	rata_	Raynes: I understand that... what I want is to put some functions from here and there into one namespace for easily accessing the library most-used functions
00:29	rata_	somnium: thanks :) I'll check it
00:29	somnium	http://github.com/ztellman/potemkin
00:29	somnium	^^ actually its just this I think, which looks rather similar to immigrate
00:29	clojurebot	No entiendo
00:29	somnium	clojurebot: botsmack
00:29	clojurebot	clojurebot evades successfully!
00:31	Raynes	$botsnack
00:31	sexpbot	Raynes: Thanks! Om nom nom!!
00:31	Raynes	,botsnack
00:31	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: botsnack in this context
00:31	Raynes	~botsnack
00:31	clojurebot	thanks; that was delicious. (nom nom nom)
01:08	_danb_	is it possible to run swank-clojure without using a project with a project.clj? I've got it working with lein but I'd like to be able to just fire it up like in inferior lisp mode
01:15	technomancy	_danb_: lein install swank-clojure 1.3.0-SNAPSHOT && ~/.lein/bin/swank-clojure
01:15	technomancy	or use cljr
01:19	_danb_	ah great, thanks technomancy
01:52	quizme	(defmethod print-method org.neo4j.kernel.impl.core.NodeProxy (fn [node writer] (.write writer "NODE" 0 2)))
01:52	quizme	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Symbol (NO_SOURCE_FILE:43)
01:54	quizme	nm
02:09	rdsr1	quizme, try (defmethod print-method org.neo4j.kernel.impl.core.NodeProxy
02:09	rdsr1	[node writer]
02:09	rdsr1	(.write writer "NODE" 0 2))
02:09	quizme	rdsrl yeah got it thanks
02:38	rata_	is it guaranteed that (zipmap (keys m) (vals m)) = m?
02:55	rdsr	rata_ the map m passed to zip map may be a sorted map, in which case I wouldn't consider the result of zipmap to be the same as the input map
02:57	rata_	rdsr: but (= (zipmap (keys m) (vals m)) m) would be always true?
03:00	rdsr	rata_: hmmm, that is correct though...
03:00	rata_	rdsr: ok, thanks :)
03:07	rata_	and is it guaranteed that (= (first #{1 2}) 1)?
04:07	rata_	is it guaranteed that (= (first #{1 2}) 1)?
04:23	tpAIA	Hello, any experts on gen-interface/gen-class?
06:28	bmh	given a sorted map, can I efficiently get the index of a key?
06:32	Chousuke	index?
06:47	_ulises	morning folk
06:52	bmh	Chousuke: Suppose we have a sorted map {a 5 b 6}, the index of a is 0, the index of b is 1
06:53	bmh	the more important question is: can you do upper and lower bound queries on a sorted-map
06:55	Chousuke	I don't think so.
06:55	Chousuke	not very efficiently, anyway
06:56	Chousuke	The datastructure probably allows it, but there's no interface for it that I know of.
06:57	bmh	hurumph. That's a serious design flaw if it's the case.
06:57	Chousuke	more like it's just not implemented :P
06:58	bmh	sounds like something to do before lunch.
07:01	Chousuke	There might be some complications because the data structure is persistent, but I'm not sure.
07:02	Chousuke	oh wait
07:02	Chousuke	(doc subseq)
07:02	clojurebot	"([sc test key] [sc start-test start-key end-test end-key]); sc must be a sorted collection, test(s) one of <, <=, > or >=. Returns a seq of those entries with keys ek for which (test (.. sc comparat...
07:02	Chousuke	that exists
07:02	Chousuke	but it gives you a seq only
07:03	Chousuke	I've never seen that in code so I forgot its existence :P
07:04	bmh	oh duh
07:04	bmh	I implemented linear time median/selection in terms of subseq!
07:05	bmh	speaking of which, that code should probably be in contrib
07:40	_ulises	is there any way to find out, within a (dosync ...) which number of retry the transaction is going through?
07:47	angerman	though >- had to be changed a little...
07:47	esj	angerman made an angersmiley ?
07:48	angerman	(-> 1 (+ 1) (+ 1) (-< [(* 2) (* 2) (* 2)] [(* 8)]) (>- +))
07:48	angerman	so what are we doing?
07:49	angerman	we thread 1 into +1 twice
07:49	angerman	e.g. 3
07:49	angerman	now we thread 3 through some forms (2 here)
07:49	angerman	e.g. (-> 3 (* 2) (* 2) (* 2)) and (-> 3 (* 8))
07:50	angerman	so we get 24 twice
07:50	angerman	and now we apply + to them, thus the result is 48
07:50	esj	nice.... a scatter/collect
07:51	angerman	and now guess what: (-> 1 (+ 1) (+ 1) (-< [(* 2) (* 2) (* 2)] [(* 8)] [( * 2) neg]) (>- +)) gives :)
07:51	angerman	i call it thread-splicing :D
07:51	esj	32 ?
07:52	esj	(although I'm wicked hung over, so all bets are off)
07:52	angerman	well you are off by 10
07:52	esj	does it dispatch each form to a thread ?
07:53	esj	as in a thread pool arrangement
07:54	angerman	no it doesn't
07:54	angerman	http://gist.github.com/655742
07:54	angerman	though It potentially could
07:55	angerman	I guess if you define them as futures or so
07:55	angerman	the collector would wait for those that are needed in the computation due to clojure semantics
07:56	esj	very nice
10:00	angerman	how do I tell lein to give my swank instance more memory?
10:19	raek	angerman: I think there is a :jvm-opts key for the project.clj file. check out the leiningen docs and example project
10:19	angerman	raek: thanks
10:21	raek	_ulises: you can do something like this: (let [tries (atom 0)] (dosync (swap! tries inc) ...))
10:22	_ulises	phew, I was about to ask the question again just in case new people would be able to answer it :)
10:22	_ulises	thanks
10:27	_ulises	hum, wait, won't the swap! not be committed if the dosync is retried?
10:28	_ulises	I know atoms don't participate in the coord updates, but still, just wondering?
10:28	raek	no, that's why it has an exclamation mark in its name
10:28	_ulises	right
10:28	raek	only changes to refs and sends to agents are affected by transactions
10:29	raek	the rest will happen as many times as the transaction body is executed
10:30	_ulises	right
10:30	_ulises	thanks
10:30	raek	you're welcome :)
10:38	LauJensen	raek: dosync for atoms?
10:39	LauJensen	$(let [r (ref 0)] (dosync (alter r inc)))
10:40	LauJensen	,(let [r (atom 0)] (swap! r inc))
10:40	clojurebot	1
10:40	_ulises	LauJensen: I'm trying to keep track of how many times a (dosync ...) has re-tried to do its body
10:41	_ulises	so I guess that having a (let [tries (atom 0)] (dosync (swap! tries inc) ...)) would do it
10:42	_ulises	in essence, I'm just trying to double check that they are being retried :)
10:42	LauJensen	aha
10:43	_ulises	hum, this is not working out that great :/
10:43	dnolen	_ulises: for some transactions that probably won't work ... I think.
10:44	_ulises	I have two threads trying to do some alter, one sleeps for 2500ms and one for 3000ms, yet they aren't interrupting each other :/
10:44	_ulises	and the alters do get in the way of each other by using a last-message-id which is inc'ed as the last operation in the dosync
10:45	dnolen	_ulises: do they sleep inside the transaction?
10:45	_ulises	no, outside
10:45	_ulises	ah crap
10:45	_ulises	:D
10:45	_ulises	thanks :)
10:49	_ulises	excellent, now it works
11:18	LauJensen	resultset-seq in core has a restriction which requires all column ids to be unique, any particular reason for this?
11:33	LauJensen	hmm, just looks like somebody didn't want to work around hashmaps only having unique keys
12:21	duck1123	is there any sort of "should receive" library for testing in clojure? (esp lazytest) Basically something where a function is replaced with a version that maintains a counter of how many times it's been called so that you can assert if it gets called
12:24	raek	http://clojure.github.com/clojure-contrib/mock-api.html <-- I looked at this once, but I never used it
12:29	duck1123	raek, thanks
12:29	kjeldahl	duck1123 The book "Joy of Clojure" also shows how such test stuff can be made.
12:31	raek	there is a new mocking library too, but I can't remember its name
13:00	noidi	duck1123, the new mocking library that raek mentioned is probably midje
13:01	raek	yes. that was the one! thank you
13:03	noidi	I just wrote something like this: (doseq [[a b] (map vector seq-of-as seq-of-bs)] ...) Is there a better way to do this?
13:04	noidi	I mean, is there something like doseq that would work like the above: (something-like-doseq [a seq-of-as, b seq-of-bs] ...)
13:05	noidi	doseq generates all combinations of the input sequences, but I want to iterate several seqs at the same time
13:06	MayDaniel	noidi: (doall (map do-something as bs)) ?
13:07	raek	the only alternate solution I can think is (dorun (map (fn [a b] ...) seq-of-as seq-of-bs)))
13:07	MayDaniel	Ah, dorun.
13:07	noidi	thanks!
13:09	itistoday	is there a way to browse and lookup clojure documentation in emacs?
13:10	dysinger	itistoday: (find-doc "blah") & (doc blah)
13:10	noidi	itistoday, if you're using slime, you can use `C-c C-d a` to search the documentation
13:10	dysinger	even better
13:11	dysinger	noidi: you are looking for 'for' I believe
13:11	noidi	and when you have the cursor on a symbol, you can use `C-c C-d d` to look up that symbol's docs
13:11	itistoday	thanks dysinger, noidi! :-)
13:12	noidi	dysinger, for works like doseq, but it generates a lazy seq
13:12	dysinger	then doall around it ?
13:12	dysinger	I'm probably not understanding your need
13:13	raek	for/doseq does not have the "take elements from multiple seqs in lockstep" feature of 'map'
13:13	dysinger	ah
13:13	noidi	raek, yes! thanks, I couldn't find the words for what I need :)
13:14	raek	it wouldn't be too hard to make a (domap [a as, b bs, c cs] ...body...) macro
13:15	dysinger	,(split-at 2 (interleave [1 2 3] '[a b c]))
13:15	clojurebot	[(1 a) (2 b 3 c)]
13:15	noidi	yup. I think I'll go with my initial solution for now, and write that macro if I'll write something similar a couple of times more
13:30	angerman	wheee. extra primitive bayesian net shows some good results.
14:17	rata_	good morning (UGT)
14:27	LauJensen	(doc defalias)
14:27	clojurebot	Pardon?
14:27	LauJensen	,(doc defalias)
14:27	clojurebot	Huh?
14:33	seancorfield	,(doc clojure.contrib.def/defalias)
14:33	clojurebot	"([name orig] [name orig doc]); Defines an alias for a var: a new var with the same root binding (if any) and similar metadata. The metadata of the alias is its initial metadata (as provided by def) ...
14:44	jjido	Will there be a race condition if two tasks update an atom at the same time?
14:44	LauJensen	jjido: no, the atom updates its value atomically. All ref types protect against race conds
14:47	drewr	jjido: depends
14:48	drewr	remember that atoms are not transactional, so you can't read and then update
14:49	drewr	(except within the update function)
14:49	drewr	best to show some code
14:51	jjido	drewr: I would like transactional
14:52	jjido	drewr: but for now I can do without
15:01	drewr	jjido: in that case, you would use a Ref
15:25	jjido	A Ref is what I need for transactional memory?
15:26	drewr	yes, that's what you want for coordinated changes between multiple values
15:29	LauJensen	jjido: on clojure.org you have a page about refs, atoms, agents etc. I would recommend you to read them, they are quite clear about the semantics and use-cases for each ref-type
15:30	jjido	LauJensen: I think I read all of the pages on clojure.org. Looks like I need to refer to it (again)
15:31	LauJensen	jjido: http://clojure.org/refs, http://clojure.org/refs, http://clojure.org/agents
15:31	LauJensen	oops, http://clojure.org/atoms
16:29	dysinger	technomancy: http://gist.github.com/657091
16:30	wsimpson	it's amazing how much you can learn just by sitting in here. :)
16:34	hiredman	dysinger: have you pulled recently? there was a commit to infer about an hour ago changing the version of the lein javac plugin
16:37	dysinger	ah
16:42	technomancy	is it not a problem?
16:43	technomancy	I can't tell what's going on there
17:12	vibrant	hmm.. i have a java object world returning Body from getBodyLis, and Body has a getNext
17:12	vibrant	how do I convert that to a seq?
17:14	raek	vibrant: if it implements the java collections interfaces, you can call seq on it
17:14	vibrant	don't think so.
17:14	tonyl	hello
17:14	raek	is it an itierator?
17:14	raek	*iterator
17:16	vibrant	raek; it's simply an object that has a getNext method and returns the next element of the list or null if it's the last.
17:16	vibrant	a class
17:16	raek	what library is this?
17:17	vibrant	jbox2d
17:18	LauJensen	vibrant: I think this might work. (let [obj your-object] (fn myseq [] (when-let [elem (.getNext obj)] (cons elem (lazy-seq (myseq))))))
17:19	ymasory	clojurebot: (doc sort-by)
17:19	clojurebot	defmulti doc is (defmulti #^{:doc "docs for foo"} foo class)
17:20	ymasory	what happens if you provide both keyfn and comp for sort-by?
17:20	vibrant	LauJensen; but obj never chnages there?
17:21	LauJensen	$(sort-by :id > [{:id 1 :x 5} {:id 2 :x 10} {:id 3 :x 15}])
17:21	LauJensen	&(sort-by :id > [{:id 1 :x 5} {:id 2 :x 10} {:id 3 :x 15}])
17:21	sexpbot	⟹ ({:x 15, :id 3} {:x 10, :id 2} {:x 5, :id 1})
17:21	ymasory	oh i get it. the function is for extracting they keys
17:21	LauJensen	vibrant: obj gets a number of calls to getNext, thats all
17:21	vibrant	lazy-seq does that?
17:22	LauJensen	&(doc lazy-seq)
17:22	sexpbot	⟹ "Macro ([& body]); Takes a body of expressions that returns an ISeq or nil, and yields a Seqable object that will invoke the body only the first time seq is called, and will cache the result and return it on all subsequent seq calls."
17:23	raek	I googled that method and I think that it actually returns a new thing, rather than change itself
17:25	raek	vibrant: (defn body-seq [body] (lazy-seq (when body (cons body (body-seq (.getNext body))))))
17:25	vibrant	LauJensen; but I should call the next getNext on the object that I get from getNExt and not on the original obj.
17:26	raek	strange library...
17:26	LauJensen	vibrant: you've got the pieces to put it together now
17:26	vibrant	yea i'm puzzled, something simple in python takes 20 minutse here
17:26	vibrant	hehe
17:26	raek	every "Body" seems to have fields, so that it can participate in one doubly linked list
17:26	vibrant	yea
17:26	vibrant	retarded
17:54	_seanc_	Is there a function for adding to a map without creating a new map?
17:55	tonyl	if the map is not persistent, you can, but all data structures in clojure are immutable. maybe a transient structure?
17:56	tonyl	or maybe using refs
17:56	_seanc_	so if you had (def a-map {}), how would you keep that variable but assign it new values?
17:56	_seanc_	would it be (let a-map (merge a-map {:id 5})) ?
17:56	tonyl	using assoc or merge
17:57	tonyl	yeah
17:57	tonyl	that would return a new map though
17:57	_seanc_	right, but if that's how it's done then I'll do it
17:58	tonyl	yeah
17:58	_seanc_	I'm still fuzzy on the topic of atoms, refs, and vars
17:58	_seanc_	so I'm not sure if either is suited for this
17:58	tonyl	if you really need to mutate it, use those
17:58	tonyl	yeah me too :P
17:58	tonyl	STM I am just learning that
17:59	_seanc_	I'm creating a simple "cache" for my compojure app. I want to "cache" a few variables. I'm under the impression an atom is the ideal choice
18:00	tonyl	oh for that I would say an atom is fine
18:01	_seanc_	I found a nifty stackoverflow link: http://cl.ly/8770ad217c86af57399e
18:03	itistoday	is there a "comment mode" whereby when i'm in a doc comment, when i hit return, it continues the single-line comment? i.e.: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/284087/
18:04	tonyl	_seanc_: thanks for sharing, i'll take a look at it.
18:04	_seanc_	you're very welcome
18:10	rata_	how can I create exceptions in clojure?
18:12	_seanc_	rata_: Have you looked at 'throw' ?
18:12	_seanc_	http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/throw
18:13	rata_	_seanc_: I want to create a Exception, not throw one
18:13	rata_	I want it to catch that particular exception
18:14	rata_	say, I create a exception called MyOwnException and then can catch it without catching other exceptions
18:14	_seanc_	So you want to extend the Exception class?
18:16	_seanc_	Hmm, I'd be interested in knowing the answer to that. Though I imagine it's something you have to do in Java since at least in my reading on Clojure you don't directly create objects or extend them
18:16	angerman	what does gen-class do?
18:17	rata_	_seanc_: in Java terms, yes, I want to extend the Exception class, but not really add anything to it, just give it a particular name
18:17	_seanc_	wow, lots of info on gen-class: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/gen-class
18:18	angerman	my google foo was probably strong enough
18:18	angerman	http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/msg/006579290248352c
18:18	tonyl	rata_: what about reify? or extending a protocol?
18:19	rata_	tonyl: is Exception a protocol?
18:20	angerman	rata_: forgot to write you directly, the link was ment for you.
18:21	rata_	angerman: thanks
18:22	raek	I think the general theme is that Clojure does most things without types
18:23	it_is_today	k, i think someone responded to me, but i've broken my emacs return key... and can't switch buffers :-p
18:23	raek	clojure.contrib.error-kit and clojure.contrib.condition are worth to check out
18:23	_seanc_	So you wouldn't be able to catch say MyException vs Exception?
18:23	tonyl	rata_ no my bad, you have to extend the class, and I think reify lets you extend your types based on protocols or classes
18:23	raek	it is indeed possible to create your own subclasses of Exception in Clojure
18:24	angerman	(try form (catch ExceptionClass ex form-with-e)) ?
18:24	rata_	raek: how?
18:25	angerman	Though Exception handling is parially done with monads in haskell iirc.
18:25	raek	gen-class, proxy, reify, deftype, defrecord
18:25	angerman	otherwise I've never really needed exceptionhandling except where interfacing with java
18:25	clojurebot	hmm… sounds like your out of heap space
18:25	tonyl	rata_:http://clojure.org/java_interop#Java Interop-Implementing Interfaces and Extending Classes
18:25	tonyl	rata_: http://clojure.org/java_interop#Java Interop-Implementing Interfaces and Extending Classes
18:25	raek	but gen-class requires AOT compilation
18:25	kotarak	angerman: scratch reify, deftype and defrecord
18:27	raek	ah, yeah. those do not do subclassing. only implementation of interfaces
18:27	angerman	kotarak: I planed to do so... just haven't had the time yet :(
18:27	_seanc_	raek: why are type hints discouraged? (reading your link)
18:27	kotarak	angerman: I mean was raek said about subclassing
18:28	raek	my link?
18:28	_seanc_	sorry, it was tonyl's
18:28	angerman	kotarak: ahh ok. Well I ment to read up on those anyway :D
18:29	kotarak	angerman: definitively encouraged! :)
18:29	_seanc_	"Normally, one should avoid the use of type hints until there is a known performance bottleneck." I'm just curious why that is. Wouldn't it always be an improvement?
18:30	angerman	ha, got to hold a talk about clojure on wednesday at my faculty. I definitely should be up to date on them by then.
18:30	kotarak	angerman: and if the official info on gen-class or proxy is not enough: http://bit.ly/ckHpzG and http://bit.ly/cS8AjJ
18:30	kotarak	_seanc_: you look yourself into a specific type.
18:31	kotarak	_seanc_: say you hint on String and then want to plug in a CharSequence.
18:31	angerman	kotarak: thanks. got them bookmarked :D
18:31	_seanc_	kotarak: Sure, there are cases such as that. However, if you know you only intend to use String, why not type hint?
18:34	rata_	_seanc_: I think because it makes your code uglier
18:38	rata_	angerman: I didn't understand what Tom Faulhaber said he did for carrying custom info
18:40	angerman	rata_: why you usually want to extend an exception is to carry out information from the cause where you throw it.
18:41	rata_	yes, but I didn't understand the alternative he uses
18:42	angerman	I guess it's basically as if you just attach meta-data to the generic/default exception.
18:43	angerman	and then handle the catch based on the meta information.
18:43	tonyl	_seanc_ you lose the power that comes with dynamic typing, which clojure has a form of
18:44	angerman	It's not clear from the message weather he has created _one_ custom Exception that he generates with his error function, feeding it the needed information or if he created an Exception that can be augmented with (meta )
18:47	rata_	I understood that he doesn't use exceptions... but no idea what he uses
18:48	technomancy	it's an exception type that has a map attached
18:49	angerman	so basically an exception with meta support
18:49	technomancy	right
18:50	rata_	technomancy: I haven't read about it yet... will check it now
18:50	technomancy	nobody's read about it. it's like a secret library.
18:51	technomancy	I told everyone I could at the Conj about it, but I'm only one man.
18:51	angerman	I wasn't there :p not my fault not to know... oooops.
18:52	angerman	:D
18:52	technomancy	maybe that'll be my next blog post
18:52	angerman	hehe. sure.
18:53	angerman	technomancy: I think I bugged you about >- and -< yesterday. And you referred me to the flow conduit library.
18:54	technomancy	I think that would have been hiredman
18:55	angerman	the refer ... yes. I think you are right. Well anyway I think I'll stick with -< and >- for the lightweight stuff. To me it's way easier to read.
18:55	mrBliss	itistoday: I just read your question about RET in "comment mode" (an hour ago). Try M-j
19:06	itistoday	mrBliss: thanks, yeah I tried that and it did work, i ended up binding it to something a little more natural (Apple-Return)
19:07	itistoday	unfortunately i can't bind it to just return, if i do that then return doesn't send commands.. i.e. when i hit return to send this message from erc, or in the minibuffer
19:11	mrBliss	itistoday: it's logical since M-j is bound to another function than RET is. You'd need another function that detects if it's on a comment line or not and will behave accordingly.
19:13	itistoday	mrBliss: yeah... my emacs lisp ain't so good.. i need practice
19:13	itistoday	more than lisp, it's just knowing what functions exist, etc.
19:14	mrBliss	itistoday: I have exactly the same problem!
19:50	rata_	what's the emacs lisp function that controls how different forms are indented?
20:18	rata_	I found it... it's define-clojure-indent
20:18	rata_	but it's part of clojure-mode and it seems I'm not using it
20:18	rata_	how do I set the same using swank-clojure(-extra)?
20:37	rata_	ping
20:45	rata_	why if I import a class from one file and then import the same class from another I get different classes? (instance? c obj) returns false for the objects produced from the first file
20:49	tonyl	what is an example?
20:49	rata_	let me make a gist
21:57	tonyl	ping?
21:57	clojurebot	PONG!
22:21	tonyl	are sets created in runtime, like expanding the dispatch macro? or are they a fully data structure?
22:39	rata_	tonyl: I think they are full data structures, but I don't really know
22:42	tonyl	yeah, i keep reading they are, but I have this itch about it.
22:42	rata_	why?
22:42	clojurebot	http://clojure.org/rationale
22:42	tonyl	i guess there is no other way to find out than looking at the source code for macro evaluation
22:43	tonyl	because they start with #
22:43	clojurebot	Pardon?
22:43	tonyl	the dispatch macro
22:43	tonyl	sets don't have a creation fn
22:43	tonyl	like maps have hash-map or sorted-map
22:43	tonyl	or lists have list, or vectors have vec or vector
22:44	tonyl	haha why did clojurebot say pardon?
22:44	rata_	sets have one, set
22:45	Raynes	&(coll? #{})
22:45	sexpbot	⟹ true
22:45	rata_	&(set [1 2])
22:45	sexpbot	⟹ #{1 2}
22:45	tonyl	mm true
22:45	tonyl	ok one mystery solve
22:45	tonyl	i guess they are
22:45	clojurebot	excusez-moi
22:45	Raynes	clojurebot: botsmack
22:45	clojurebot	Owww!
22:45	tonyl	so #{} is just synthetic sugar
22:46	tonyl	haha clojurebot is going crazy
22:46	rata_	yes, #{} is a reader macro
22:46	rata_	not a macro
22:46	tonyl	yeah ok
22:47	tonyl	I still going to look into the source code, to see how synthetic sugar is made
22:47	tonyl	thanks guys
22:48	rata_	you're welcome :)
22:48	Raynes	syntactic sugar
22:50	tonyl	Raynes: :P I guess I was going all chemist
22:50	Raynes	:p
22:50	tonyl	ok so what is the difference in usage between a set and a vector
22:51	Raynes	& #{1 2 3 3 4 1 2 3 5}
22:51	sexpbot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Duplicate key: 3
22:51	Raynes	You can't have duplicates in sets.
22:51	Raynes	&(#{1 2 3 4} 3)
22:51	sexpbot	⟹ 3
22:51	tonyl	oh right, like a mathematical set
22:51	Raynes	&(#{1 2 3 4} 5)
22:51	sexpbot	⟹ nil
22:52	Raynes	Sets are also functions that look up items within themselves, and return the item or nil if it doesn't exist in the set.
22:52	Raynes	Vectors are the typical sequential collection in Clojure.
22:53	tonyl	it makes sense now. I have to re-read some more about all this
22:53	Raynes	Of course, there are also lists: &\| '(1 2 3) \|&
22:53	sexpbot	⟹ (1 2 3)
22:53	amalloy	Heh. Enjoying the new toys, Raynes?
22:54	Raynes	amalloy: Indeed.
22:54	Raynes	amalloy: Also, I just remembered that I have an embedded plugin in sexpbot. When you go to add the regex stuff to the normal command prefixes, you can just modify that plugin.
22:54	tonyl	what does &\| do to sexpbot? evaluates too?
22:54	Raynes	tonyl: The thing in between those is evaluated as code.
22:55	amalloy	Hm okay, I'll check it out
22:55	tonyl	hehe interesting
22:55	Raynes	It can &\|(println "appear!")\| & anywhere in a message.
22:55	Raynes	Well, if I type it right. ;)
22:56	tonyl	haha
22:56	amalloy	I was thinking $(this) would be a neat syntax, but tricky to implement
22:56	Raynes	amalloy: It's actually impossible to implement consistently and without any chance of error.
22:57	Raynes	It's easy to differentiate between a normal command and a parenthesis wrapped expression, but not everything that can be evaluated is wrapped in parentheses.
22:58	Raynes	There is no way to differentiate between "execute command x" and "evaluate x"
22:58	amalloy	Raynes: yeah, I suppose so
22:59	amalloy	You could use it only for one of the two, right?
22:59	amalloy	Eg, what is the $(fcst here)?
23:06	rata_	I'm back... there was a blackout here
23:08	rata_	(do you say blackout in english when the electricity vanishes?)
23:08	tonyl	yeah
23:08	tonyl	here is usually because of a storm
23:09	rata_	here is usually because the power grid is so shitty
23:10	rata_	(no kidding)
23:10	tonyl	that sucks
23:11	rata_	yea
23:12	rata_	here's a gist of what I was asking before: http://gist.github.com/657536 I hope is a good minimal code to demonstrate the problem of importing a class twice
23:16	rata_	I think the problem is that every time it reads (:import [x A]) it creates a new A with the same name but different identity
23:17	tonyl	it might be that, but that defeats the point of importing protocols, let me test it
23:18	tonyl	I thought import was only for java interop
23:21	rata_	no, everything that compiles to a class must be imported (I think)
23:27	tonyl	yeah
23:30	tonyl	i am guessing is throwing the exception with the use of A in the z namespace
23:30	tonyl	i don't know why
23:32	nurvnurv	hey
23:32	rata_	which exception? does it throw an exception?
23:33	nurvnurv	does anyone knows why i can't evaluate an sexp on slime?
23:33	nurvnurv	it simply goes into infinite loop
23:33	nurvnurv	and stops works
23:33	nurvnurv	working
23:33	tonyl	rata_: it does to me, i assume that was your problem
23:33	rata_	tonyl: my problem is that (instance? A obj) returns false
23:34	tonyl	rata_: I replicated your problem and it threw an exception ClassNotFoundException: x
23:35	tonyl	until I took off the (:import x A) from the z namespace, then it all works fine
23:36	tonyl	I don't have the latest version of clojure though
23:36	rata_	sorry... update the gist
23:37	rata_	that (:import x A) is supposed to be a (:import [x A])
23:39	tonyl	rata_: ok tested your new gist and it works fine with me
23:39	tonyl	it returns true
23:39	tonyl	and i tested it on both y an z namespaces
23:40	rata_	mmmm... it's difficult to write a minimal code for this
23:40	tonyl	i understand the situation
23:41	tonyl	my guess would be if there is other code conflicting with the boolean result
23:41	tonyl	stripe the code of to test it if it returns true, the add piece little by little to see what is causing the false result
23:47	tonyl	well, good night
23:51	rata_	the annoying thing is that I've had this problem before and putting :reload-all in :use have solved it before... but this time I can't put :reload-all in :import
23:55	replaca	what's the leiningen magic for grabbing contrib in master again?
23:56	technomancy	replaca: this is for alpha1: [org.clojure.contrib/complete "1.3.0-alpha1" :classifier "bin"]
23:56	technomancy	you might be able to drop the classifier now for alpha2 and on?
23:56	technomancy	not using master at work yet. =\
23:57	replaca	technomancy: Thanks, I haven't been using master yet either, but autodoc isn't picking up the source refs in contrib right all the time and I need to figure it out