#clojure – 2010-07-27

2010-07-27

00:53	technomancy	is it to cute to replace (clean project) (deps project) (jar project) with (doto project clean deps jar)?
00:53	technomancy	I think of doto as a java-interop-y thing
01:16	Apage43	it feels java interopy since clojury functions tend not to have side effects, i spose.
01:40	hiredman	ping?
01:40	clojurebot	PONG!
01:44	jacortinas	ping
01:44	jacortinas	ping?
01:44	clojurebot	PONG!
01:44	jacortinas	,('ping)
01:44	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: Symbol
01:45	jacortinas	"ping?"
01:45	jacortinas	,"ping?"
01:45	clojurebot	"ping?"
01:48	slyrus	,(str (lazy-seq "1234"))
01:48	clojurebot	"clojure.lang.LazySeq@251fc3"
01:49	slyrus	,(lazy-seq "1234")
01:49	clojurebot	(\1 \2 \3 \4)
01:49	slyrus	,(Integer/parseInt (lazy-seq "1234"))
01:49	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.LazySeq cannot be cast to java.lang.String
02:23	SandGorgon	Bryan Cantrill's (of Dtrace) article bashing STM - http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2008/11/03/concurrencys-shysters/
02:52	herdrick	say, is there a way to use memfn (or something else) to make a function from a static method?
04:04	lpetit	test
06:34	Bahman	Hi all!
06:43	LauJensen	Hey Bahman
06:44	Bahman	Hi LauJensen!
07:40	lpetit	vimperator on firefox rocks !
07:48	OliverUv	lpetit: i agree, but I changed to chrome so no vimperator for me :(
07:58	lpetit	OliverUv: there's something for you on Chrome: Vimium
07:58	lpetit	similar to vimperator
08:00	OliverUv	nice! thanks
08:00	OliverUv	I've been googling around for stuff like "vimperator for chrome" but never found anything
08:01	OliverUv	thanks
08:12	LauJensen	OliverUv: I highly recommend that you use Conkeror instead, for more reasons than this channel can contain :)
08:24	lpetit	LauJensen: give just one :)
08:24	LauJensen	Has better keybindings
08:27	Nikelandjelo	LauJensen: I haven't seen Conkeror, but what keybindings does it offer? Why are they better?
08:30	LauJensen	Nikelandjelo: Conkeror has all of Emacs keybindings
08:35	lpetit	LauJensen: and you dare say those are better keybindings to a vim user ! :-p
08:35	OliverUv	My hands don't appreciate emacs' keybindings
08:37	lpetit	My hands hurt at all bindings involving the Control key
08:42	LauJensen	lpetit: Swap control and capslock, then your pinky finger can rest on it. I can honestly say that Ive never had any finger/hand pain after a full day of coding
08:43	LauJensen	lpetit: and no, I dont actually know that they are better since I dont know Vims bindings, but I know that Emacs is better so it makes sense to tie everything together. (see my latest screencast for a full rant about this)
08:44	Dranik	hello!
08:44	Dranik	I'm trying to develop a macro which generates a java class
08:44	Dranik	but it simply does not want to compile
08:45	Dranik	may anybody help me with that?
08:45	Dranik	(the same code without the macro definition compiles greatly!)
08:46	bobo_	LauJensen: do you have a writeup of for ex the 10-20 keybindings you use most in emacs? i bet theres alot i didnt know i want...
08:46	LauJensen	bobo_: No, but its a good idea - I'll incorporate that into my next post
08:46	bobo_	cool
08:47	lozh	Dranik: Put some code up and I'll give it a shot
08:47	Dranik	lozh, may I put the code here or should I use pastebin?
08:49	Dranik	OK, let's put it here then
08:49	Dranik	(ns macros.win
08:49	Dranik	(:gen-class
08:49	Dranik	:name macros.win))
08:49	Dranik	this works fine, AOT-compilation goes OK
08:49	Dranik	I want to create a macros which will generate exactly the same code
08:49	Dranik	look here
08:50	Dranik	(defmacro mywin [name]
08:50	Dranik	`(ns macros.~name
08:50	Dranik	(:gen-class
08:50	Dranik	:name macros.~name
08:50	Dranik	)))
08:50	Dranik	(mywin :win)
08:50	Dranik	I'm sure I miss something really simple
08:50	lozh	pastebin or gisthub would probably be better, but I'll have a go, sec
08:51	lozh	gist.github even
08:52	Dranik	lozh, gist: 492178
08:53	lozh	ta
08:54	lpetit	LauJensen: inferring that emacs bindings are better than vi bindings from a (questionable) knowledge that emacs is globally better than vi is a logic error
08:55	LauJensen	lpetit: Like I said 'I dont actually know that they (the bindings) are better'. But Emacs is better than Vi, ask anybody in #emacs
08:55	lpetit	LauJensen: interesting idea, swapping control and capslock. It's what you've done yourself for your configuration ? And what about all the keys that are on the "left" of the keyboard: how do you type them with capslock ?
08:56	LauJensen	lpetit: Yea I have them swapped. Im not sure what you mean about keys on the left
08:56	lpetit	LauJensen: I asked on #eclipse, and surprisingly everybody told me eclipse is better than x/y/z :-p
08:56	chouser	My capslock key does ctrl too.
08:56	LauJensen	lpetit: yea I know, it was a joke.
08:56	chouser	My capslock key does ctrl too.
08:57	lpetit	LauJensen: prior to your swap, you would have typed Ctrl+Z : "ctrl with the right hand on the right control key, Z with the left hand". How do you type Ctrl+Z ?
08:58	lpetit	seems like this "capslock/ctrl" key swap is this kind of little dirty secrets ... :)
08:59	LauJensen	lpetit: Ah, I never use Ctrl+Z
08:59	lpetit	chouser, LauJensen: out of curiosity, you changed the behaviors at the OS level, at the X server level, at the app (emacs/vim) level ?
08:59	chouser	I got used to ctrl being there on Sun keyboards in college and was quite dismayed to find it was uncommon on PC keyboards.
08:59	LauJensen	lpetit: xmodmap - OS level
09:00	lpetit	LauJensen: please, it was just an example. I'm pretty sure there is at least one combination of Ctrl+ a key you normally type with the left hand in what you're using with emacs
09:00	LauJensen	lpetit: hehe. Im not aware of any such keys that I use in my daily workflow, but if I had to, I would use the pinky finger, and index finger on the same hand
09:00	lpetit	LauJensen: thanks. If you intend to also talk about this little dirty secret on your next blog entry, you're welcome
09:00	chouser	lpetit: I currently use xmodmap, but xorg also has a special config setting specifically for swapping capslock/ctrl and that actually behaves more consistently in my opinion.
09:01	LauJensen	(and I was half serious- try to avoid tricky key-combos for maximum efficiency)
09:01	lpetit	LauJensen: isn't C-c something usual in emacs ?
09:01	LauJensen	chouser: gnome can trip you up, otherwise xmodmap should be the preferred method. Ubuntu is changing things though
09:01	LauJensen	lpetit: yea, and C-x, but I use one hand for those
09:02	lpetit	LauJensen: so I'm out of luck. C-c, C-x, C-v are the most common bindings in all apps / OS, and they force you to twist you wristle, I guess those are the ones which harm my hands
09:03	lpetit	s/harm/hurt/
09:03	sexpbot	LauJensen: so I'm out of luck. C-c, C-x, C-v are the most common bindings in all apps / OS, and they force you to twist you wristle, I guess those are the ones which hurt my hands
09:03	lpetit	maybe I could swap Enter and right-control :-)
09:03	LauJensen	lpetit: hmm
09:03	lpetit	LauJensen: how old are you ?
09:03	LauJensen	28
09:04	lpetit	I'm 36: wait for 8 more years and we can talk about this again :)
09:04	LauJensen	Seems fair :)
09:04	LauJensen	though, looking at my hands, my left hand is always rested in that slighty twisted position, so Im not twinching
09:05	lpetit	LauJensen: oh yes, typing CapsLock+c/x/v with the left hand indeed seems way better than Ctrl+c/x/v
09:06	LauJensen	I can send you mine
09:06	lpetit	LauJensen: if you please
09:06	LauJensen	remove Lock = Caps_Lock
09:06	LauJensen	remove Control = Control_L
09:06	LauJensen	keysym Control_L = Caps_Lock
09:06	LauJensen	keysym Caps_Lock = Control_L
09:06	LauJensen	add Lock = Caps_Lock
09:06	LauJensen	add Control = Control_L
09:06	LauJensen
09:06	LauJensen	(for everyones benefit)
09:06	lpetit	where do I put/replace all these nice looking commands ?
09:06	LauJensen	put them in ~/.xmodmap
09:06	LauJensen	then run xmodmap ~/.xmodmap
09:08	lpetit	so xmodmap will not change the behaviour of the keys if I'm using vim from a terminal ?
09:09	chouser	lpetit: is it an X terminal?
09:09	lpetit	almost. But I also tend to access remote servers, hmmm
09:09	chouser	yes, but you access them via your local X session, don't you?
09:11	chouser	there's another mechanism for setting capslock behavior in linux console terminals, but it's been ages since I bothered doing that.
09:11	lpetit	no, you're right, xmodmap will be sufficient for me too
09:12	lpetit	subsidiary question: the xmodmap command must be called just once ?
09:12	lpetit	:wq
09:12	lpetit	woops, wrong window focus
09:14	lpetit	apparently no, what's the better place to put the xmodmap command, please ?
09:14	chouser	mine is 1~~~7`
09:15	chouser	mine is in my .xsession
09:18	lpetit	chouser, LauJensen: I would like to thank you both on behalf of my wrists
09:18	chouser	I wish your wrists well. :-)
09:19	lpetit	chouser, LauJensen: no other little dirty secrets w/regards to keyboard keys switching ?
09:23	chouser	nope, I've got nuthin.
09:23	chouser	except the dirty little secret that although emacs' infrastructure is more flexible, vim's keybindings are better.
09:23	Raynes	I hated the first two weeks after switching my ctrl and caps keys.
09:25	lpetit	Raynes: sure, I already switched to upper cases 4 since I switched 10 minutes ago. But I also appreciated each time I had to hit Capslock instead of Control !
09:28	Chousuke	I sometimes forget that caps lock is not control when I borrow other people's computers
09:29	lpetit	hey, it seems that anybody except me already knows and applies the little dirty secret ! Is this a genetic transmission ? :)
09:31	LauJensen	lpetit: just question everything about your setup, eventually you'll end up on Arch, using Awesome as the WM and Emacs for everything else. np bye :)
09:31	Raynes	I never really minded ctrl being ctrl. I just changed it to see if it made a significant difference, and I got used to it.
09:32	lozh	Would you expect (ns (symbol "blah")) to work, or (ns (ns-name (symbol "blah"))?
09:32	chouser	nope
09:33	chouser	ns is 1~~~7`
09:33	chouser	something is wrong with my keyboard
09:33	chouser	ns is a macro, so its args may not (and 1~~~7`
09:33	chouser	in fact are not) evaluated
09:33	chouser	1~
09:33	chouser	hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
09:34	Raynes	o.o
09:35	chouser	sorry about that.
09:36	lozh	nps, I guess that means that Dranik was out of luck with what he was trying in http://gist.github.com/492178
09:36	lpetit	LauJensen: and using a Kinesis Contoured keyboard, and live in Denmark, etc. :)
09:37	chouser	ah, no that could still be made to work.
09:37	arkh	lpetit: the kinesis would be so much better if it had tilt (clockwise on the left, counter-clockwise on the right) with its split
09:38	arkh	lpetit: I have no improvements for Denmark ;)
09:38	chouser	something like (defmacro mywin [name] `(ns ~(symbol "macros" name) ...))
09:40	Nikelandjelo	Dranik's variant also work if replace macros.~name with only ~name. And call (mywin macros.win)
09:42	lpetit	arkh: I've looked at the kinesis. Seem very expensive, and I've no real proof that it is that better. Maybe the kinesis which switches the keyboard in the halves, ...
09:42	arkh	lpetit: true, there is the other model(s)
10:01	LauJensen	lpetit: would be great to have you up here :)
10:03	lpetit	LauJensen: thanks for the compliment :)
10:03	lpetit	I also wish I had more clojurists near me, but having Christophe is already a great chance !
10:11	LauJensen	Yea its hard to find a better sparing partner than him
10:43	noidi	I'd like to pick a Java class in a conditional statement and give the picked class a name using let; that works fine, but how can I create an instance of the class?
10:43	noidi	,(let [d BigDecimal] (new d 3))
10:43	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Unable to resolve classname: d
10:48	lpetit	,(source clojure.lang.Reflector)
10:48	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: source in this context
10:48	lpetit	,(show clojure.lang.Reflector)
10:49	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: show in this context
10:49	lpetit	bleh
10:49	lpetit	~source clojure.lang.Reflector
10:49	lpetit	noidi : there it is ^^^
10:50	noidi	lpetit, thanks!
10:50	lpetit	noidi: invokeConstructor
10:51	noidi	,(let [d BigDecimal] (clojure.lang.Reflector/invokeConstructor d (to-array [3])))
10:51	clojurebot	3M
10:51	noidi	that's a bit verbose, but works great
10:52	noidi	I'll grep the contrib sources just in case, maybe it's wrapped into a nicer package somewhere :P
10:53	noidi	apparently not
10:54	lpetit	,(clojure.lang.Reflector BigDecimal 3)
10:54	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Class cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
10:55	lpetit	,(clojure.lang.Reflector/invokeConstructor BigDecimal 3)
10:55	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Integer cannot be cast to [Ljava.lang.Object;
10:57	lpetit	,(BigDecimal/valueOf 3)
10:57	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: valueOf
10:58	lpetit	,(BigDecimal/valueOf (long 3))
10:58	clojurebot	3M
10:59	lpetit	,(clojure.lang.Reflector/invokeStaticMethodVariadic BigDecimal "valueOf" (long 3))
10:59	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Class cannot be cast to java.lang.String
11:00	lpetit	,(clojure.lang.Reflector/invokeStaticMethodVariadic (.getSimpleName BigDecimal) "valueOf" (long 3))
11:00	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to [Ljava.lang.Object;
11:00	lpetit	hehe, I give up
11:02	lozh	,(clojure.lang.Reflector/invokeConstructor BigDecimal (to-array [3]))
11:02	clojurebot	3M
11:02	jfields	is it possible to add additional methods to a proxy that are not in any of the interfaces specified and call those methods?
11:03	jfields	(.runAlso (proxy [Runnable] [] (run [] (println "running")) (runAlso [] (println "running also"))))
11:03	chouser	,(clojure.lang.Reflector/invokeStaticMethod BigDecimal "valueOf" (to-array [(long 3)]))
11:03	clojurebot	3M
11:03	chouser	lozh: you beat me!
11:04	chouser	oh, we did slightly different things. that's good. :-)
11:04	lozh	Unfortunately I know java better than clojure... :)
11:05	chouser	jfields: no, proxy can only implement existing interface methods
11:05	jfields	thanks chouser
11:06	chouser	jfields: but you can use defprotocol to create a new interface with methods of its own.
11:09	lozh	,(defmacro my-new [class-name & args] `(new ~(symbol class-name) ~@args))
11:09	clojurebot	DENIED
11:09	lozh	with that you could do (my-new "BigDecimal" 3)
11:12	chouser	yes, but only if you knew the class name at compile-time
11:12	chouser	in which case you might was well say (BigDecimal. 3)
11:34	lpetit	~source mapcat
12:13	slyrus	technomancy: so... how do I build leiningen?
12:18	slyrus	git checkout 3dc47c138 ; lein self-install # works, of course, but it would be nice to not have to do that. I'd just as soon build my own jar than have to check out an old version, pull a jar and then checkout the head.
12:27	technomancy	slyrus: you need an older version of lein to bootstrap the deps for a checkout.
12:27	technomancy	it's self-hosting
12:28	slyrus	ok, but why do you need an _older_ version?
12:28	slyrus	shouldn't the current version be able to build itself?
12:29	technomancy	oh sure; was just assuming the current version hadn't been built yet.
12:29	technomancy	I just haven't uploaded a prebuilt jar for 1.2.1-SNAPSHOT yet for self-install since that version is so new.
12:30	slyrus	right, that's the symptom I'm seeing.
12:31	slyrus	I notice that there are many more things in leiningen/lib than in project.clj's dependencies. are these dependencies computed (and pulled) by maven?
12:31	technomancy	yep, many of them are are transitive dependencies
12:33	slyrus	ok, so if I checkout an older version, I can do lein self-install and things are happy. BUT if I then upgrade to the HEAD, I don't have the current jar. How do I move from the old version to the new?
12:34	technomancy	just do "lein deps" in the checkout
12:34	slyrus	but the question is ... when do I checkout the current HEAD?
12:35	slyrus	after doing lein deps?
12:35	slyrus	(recall that I had to checkout the pre-1.2.1 to get things to build)
12:36	slyrus	and I would argue that lein isn't self hosting, but rather older-version hosting, ATM :)
12:37	mmarczyk	it's just not being packaged in between releases
12:37	slyrus	right, and it's self-fully-packaged-hosting then...
12:38	mmarczyk	one cannot hope for more than that, can one? :-)
12:38	slyrus	it would be nice if there were a minimal build tool that could then be used to self-host, but
12:38	slyrus	yeah, the current situation is probably workable, I was just confused on how to get back to a working state
12:39	mmarczyk	well, you can use pom.xml with mvn
12:39	mmarczyk	I guess
12:39	mmarczyk	never tried that, mind you
12:39	mmarczyk	not that I'm calling mvn minimal :-P
12:39	slyrus	mmarczyk: I added some shortcut documentation the other day
12:39	mmarczyk	but it is compared to ant + mvn + wrapping = lein
12:39	slyrus	mmarczyk: actually, you _can't_ because there's no pom.xml
12:39	mmarczyk	slyrus: cool! :-)
12:40	mmarczyk	no pom.xml? I'm sure I've got one in my checkout, but perhaps it's in .gitignore
12:40	slyrus	and some more functionality and bug fixes to
12:40	mmarczyk	...it is
12:40	slyrus	ah, it is!
12:40	mmarczyk	hm
12:40	slyrus	that's what I was looking for. hrmmmm indeed.
12:42	mmarczyk	well, to my untrained eye
12:43	mmarczyk	this doesn't look like a pom which could actually be used to build anything
12:43	mmarczyk	just some metadata and dependencies
12:43	slyrus	perhaps it's vestigal
12:43	mmarczyk	which makes perfect sense, of course...
13:21	arohner	what is the proper way to write a macro that emits type hints?
13:21	arohner	^foo ~obj in the returned code doesn't seem to be doing it
13:26	rubydiamond_	http://riddell.us/ClojureWithEmacsSlimeSwankOnUbuntu.html are these paths mentioned valid now
13:26	rubydiamond_	~/opt/swank-clojure/src/emacs
13:26	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
13:26	rubydiamond	http://riddell.us/ClojureWithEmacsSlimeSwankOnUbuntu.html are these paths mentioned valid now
13:27	rubydiamond	~/opt/swank-clojure/src/emacs
13:27	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
13:27	rubydiamond	~/opt/swank-clojure/src/main/clojure
13:27	clojurebot	No entiendo
13:27	rubydiamond	technomancy: you there?
13:31	mmarczyk	arohner: (with-meta obj {:tag 'foo})
13:33	arohner	mmarczyk: I haven't been able to get that to work either
13:33	mmarczyk	still, this is the correct way
13:34	mmarczyk	could you make a Gist of your macro?
13:34	mmarczyk	I mean, actually it is ~(with-meta obj {:tag 'foo})
13:36	rubydiamond	~/opt/swank-clojure/src/main/clojure & ~/opt/swank-clojure/src/main/clojure are not there in swank-clojure
13:36	clojurebot	see swank
13:36	mmarczyk	the point the metadata needs to be attached to the symbol in the expansion, meaning that you have to attach it when the macro gets expanded, which is after read time, but before runtime
13:37	arohner	here's what I tried last: http://gist.github.com/492566
13:37	mmarczyk	arohner: ok, I'll have a look
13:37	arohner	Indexed here is clojure.lang.Indexed
13:37	mmarczyk	arohner: also, I've recently answered an SO question which might be relevant, just found the link:
13:37	mmarczyk	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3330666/using-clojure-deftype-as-a-parameterized-function
13:38	mmarczyk	arohner: it needs to be 'Indexed -- note the quote
13:39	arohner	mmarczyk: ah, fully qualified
13:39	arohner	the compiler wasn't happy with 'Indexed, but was with 'clojure.lang.Indexed
13:39	arohner	mmarczyk: thanks
13:39	mmarczyk	np
13:40	mmarczyk	I'd expect it to be more about class vs. symbol -- the type hint should be a symbol, I believe
13:40	mmarczyk	anyway, nice macro!
13:43	rubydiamond	can somebody help me in understanding..
13:43	rubydiamond	what line of http://riddell.us/ClojureWithEmacsSlimeSwankOnUbuntu.html makes
13:43	rubydiamond	slime to load slime repl * clojure
13:43	rubydiamond	instead of sbcl
13:45	rubydiamond	anybody there?
13:45	ztellman	what's up?
13:47	rubydiamond	ztellman: hey
13:47	rubydiamond	I need to setup my inferior-lisp-program to swank clojure
13:48	ztellman	doesn't swank bypass inferior-lisp?
13:48	seancron	rubydiamond: Do you have lein installed?
13:49	rubydiamond	ztellman, seancron I have this http://github.com/anildigital/emacs/blob/master/anil/slime.el
13:49	rubydiamond	seancron: yes.. I have lean installed
13:49	rubydiamond	if i comment above slime.el code ..
13:49	rubydiamond	it asks me lisp program not found
13:50	seancron	Then in your project.clj, add to dev-dependencies swank-clojure "1.2.1"
13:50	rubydiamond	but I wonder how this guy http://riddell.us/ClojureWithEmacsSlimeSwankOnUbuntu.html is able to do that .. without setting inferior-lisp-program
13:50	seancron	like this :dev-dependencies [[swank-clojure "1.2.1"]]
13:50	seancron	like this : dev-dependencies [[swank-clojure "1.2.1"]]
13:50	technomancy	those instructions are waaaay out of date
13:51	ztellman	rubydiamond: you're running "lein swank" at the command line, and then "slime-connect" within emacs?
13:52	rubydiamond	technomancy: right ~/opt/swank-clojure/src/main/clojure & ~/opt/swank-clojure/src/main/clojure paths are not valid now
13:52	rubydiamond	ztellman: slime-connect works
13:52	rubydiamond	now I am trying to setup the way http://riddell.us guy has done
13:52	rubydiamond	basically copied clojure.jar and clojure-contrib.jar to ~/.clojure
13:53	rubydiamond	now I just want to type 'slime'
13:53	rubydiamond	and which should show me the swank clojure prompt
13:53	rubydiamond	am i missing something here
13:53	technomancy	rubydiamond: it's a lot easier if you follow the swank-clojure readme
13:53	mmarczyk	slyrus: I think connected-components could (should?) use recur to self-call
13:53	technomancy	rather than some random stuff you found on a guy's blog
13:54	ztellman	rubydiamond: maybe you won't have any better success with this, but I've found it's easier to do (setq swank-clojure-binary "path/to/clj/script")
13:54	ztellman	just have something that will give you a REPL with the appropriate classpaths set
13:55	ztellman	and point swank-clojure-binary at it
13:56	rubydiamond	ztellman: which script I should point to
13:56	ztellman	rubydiamond: I created one of my own, but this might work for you: http://github.com/liebke/cljr
13:57	slyrus	mmarczyk: good idea, but the naive change doesn't work for some reason. hmm...
13:58	slyrus	also, if that blows up the stack, you're probably likely to have other problems elsewhere!
13:58	mmarczyk	sure, but I think recur might be a bit faster at no cost at all (incl. to readability)
13:58	mmarczyk	though if it breaks things
13:59	mmarczyk	then I suppose I'm wrong on this point ;-)
13:59	mmarczyk	I can't see why it would, though... hm.
13:59	raek	lozh: my reply to your my-ew macro:
13:59	rubydiamond	btw which is good .. running lein swank and then slime-connect
13:59	slyrus	no, i agree. it's a good idea. question is why doesn't it work?
13:59	raek	(defmacro runtime-new "Much like new, but the first argument can be anything that evaluates to a class" [class & args] `(clojure.lang.Reflector/invokeConstructor class (to-array args)))
13:59	technomancy	mmarczyk: the pom can be used to fetch the dependencies; you just have to copy jars frob target/dependency to lib
13:59	technomancy	I will see about documenting that.
13:59	rubydiamond	or running slime to directly connect to swank-clojure
14:00	raek	hrm, should be ~class and ~args, too
14:00	technomancy	~swank
14:00	clojurebot	swank is try the readme. seriously.
14:00	lozh	~@args?
14:00	clojurebot	I don't understand.
14:01	mmarczyk	technomancy: ah, right -- and that's enough, because nothing needs to be compiled when working out of a checkout... cool
14:01	lozh	or does to-array deal with that?
14:01	raek	to-array works on a collection, right? in that case: no.
14:01	lozh	cool
14:02	slyrus	mmarczyk: [acc] -> acc in the arg list makes recur work. why would that be?
14:02	raek	,(doc to-array)
14:02	clojurebot	"([coll]); Returns an array of Objects containing the contents of coll, which can be any Collection. Maps to java.util.Collection.toArray()."
14:02	raek	ok, it does
14:03	rubydiamond	getting this error
14:03	rubydiamond	on typing slime
14:03	rubydiamond	apply: Searching for program: No such file or directory, lisp
14:04	raek	the swank/slime/clojure-mode tutorial on ridell.us should really contain a link to the swank-clojure readme at the top!
14:04	mmarczyk	slyrus: ah, never thought about that, but I guess that's because defn does destructuring in an implicit first-line let or sth (will check in a sec)
14:04	raek	preferably, a working one, too
14:05	raek	I must admitt, I've been lazy too
14:05	rubydiamond	don't know why.. but i don't want to use package.el
14:05	raek	it was the first tutorial I found hwn googling "emacs clojure ubuntu"
14:05	mmarczyk	slyrus: so, maybe try recurring with an extra [ ... ] added around the second arg
14:05	raek	I've managed to run slime without package.el
14:06	slyrus	or just remove [] off the arg list. I'd still like to understand the difference between (call-myself arg1 arg2) and (recur arg1 arg2) though...
14:07	raek	rubydiamond: try to add this: (ad-activate 'slime-read-interactive-args)
14:07	raek	I think you need to have that if you're not using package.el
14:07	mmarczyk	slyrus: if you remove the [] from around acc, you will of course get something else passed inside it
14:08	mmarczyk	slyrus: actually the simplest way to proceed would be to provide to fn bodies
14:08	rickmode	slyrus: recur is clojure's answer to tail-call optimization. basically recur is a loop. calling the method directly uses the stack and so can cause the stack to run out
14:08	rubydiamond	raek: hmm yeah.. something it's downloading clojure
14:09	mmarczyk	slyrus: (defn connected-components ([graph] (connected-components graph nil)) ([graph acc] ...))
14:09	rubydiamond	raek: hope it sets path and loads it automatically
14:10	raek	rubydiamond: I would recommend to start the swank server with lein swank
14:10	rubydiamond	raek: yeah.. I can start the server and do slime-connect
14:10	rubydiamond	but basically I want to point my slime to swank-clojure
14:10	raek	just starting slime makes emacs start its own swank server
14:10	rubydiamond	currently my slime goes to CL-USER which is lisp
14:10	mmarczyk	slyrus: anyway, if you recur in a function with rest args, the final argument to recur will need to be a seqable which it will then be possible to destructure as per the specification after & in the arg vector
14:11	rubydiamond	raek: for me that is not the case
14:11	raek	...and that swank server is not configure to include any project's paths into the classpath
14:12	raek	there is also swank-clojure-project that does sort of the same thing as lein swank, but doesn't use leiningen
14:12	raek	technomancy: is swank-clojure-project deprecated?
14:12	raek	rubydiamond: does slime-connect:ing work for you?
14:13	tridd3ll	rubydiamond: saw you were asking about my tutorials in the irc log... here is one I made but never blogged about: http://riddell.us/ClojureSwankLeiningenWithEmacsOnArch.html
14:13	rubydiamond	raek: yes.. it works..
14:13	rubydiamond	raek: it connects to swank server started with lein
14:13	tridd3ll	rubydiamond: it's for arch but on the package management stuff is different that ubuntu
14:13	raek	tridd3ll: are you the author of that blog?
14:13	tridd3ll	yes
14:13	alexyk	what would you use to suck in all of #clojure logs off n01se.net?
14:14	raek	1) the link to technomancy's blog is broken
14:14	tridd3ll	raek: the above link is much more current... but not tested with 1.2
14:14	rubydiamond	raek: right
14:15	rubydiamond	technomancy: you should write the other way of running swank clojure..
14:15	rubydiamond	without package.el
14:15	rubydiamond	users like me prefer not to use packages.el
14:15	technomancy	get used to package.el; it's part of Emacs now
14:15	raek	2) it would be very good if there was a link to the readme files in technomancy's repos
14:16	raek	preferably with a note that they are the most up to date instructions
14:16	alexyk	technomancy: is your http lib the way to scrape the wild web?
14:16	tridd3ll	rubydiamond: need to drop back off irc again... on-site at a customer and can't connect... went on my aircard to note the location of a more recent tutorial.. hope it helps
14:17	raek	the http://riddell.us/ClojureWithEmacsSlimeSwankOnUbuntu.html page is the first result on google if one searches for "clojure emacs ubuntu"
14:17	raek	it would be very helpful if that could point to the most up-to-date documentation
14:17	tridd3ll	raek: which is where?
14:18	rubydiamond	tridd3ll: is it written by you?
14:18	raek	swank-clojure: http://github.com/technomancy/swank-clojure
14:18	tridd3ll	raek: my more recent tutorial or something else?
14:18	raek	clojure-mode: http://github.com/technomancy/clojure-mode
14:18	rubydiamond	why there are two repositories of swank-clojure ..
14:19	raek	all articles about how to setup clojure with emacs, preferably
14:19	rubydiamond	which one is valid ..
14:19	raek	....imho
14:19	arohner	mmarczyk: what if you want to add a type hint to an array, in a macro? I'm getting the exception that arrays don't support IMeta.
14:19	rubydiamond	is it valid swank-clojure git://github.com/jochu/swank-clojure.git ?
14:19	tridd3ll	raek: well, that link is not really a step by step tutorial... there are many ways to configure an environment, mine didn't use the emacs package management stuff
14:20	mmarczyk	arohner: you don't place hints on the actual objects to be hinted, but rather on the names they'll be bound to
14:20	mmarczyk	arohner: so if you want to generate a let -- (let [arr <the-array>] ...)
14:20	mmarczyk	arohner: attach the hint to arr
14:20	arohner	mmarczyk: k. thanks again
14:20	mmarczyk	np
14:20	rubydiamond	tridd3ll: yeah.. I also don't use emacs package management stuff.
14:22	seancron	rubydiamond: You're using ubuntu, right? What version?
14:23	rubydiamond	seancron: I am now using Snow Leopard on Macbook Pro
14:24	seancron	rubydiamond: Ah, my mistake. I thought you had said you used Ubuntu
14:24	rubydiamond	seancron: nope :)
14:24	seancron	What version of emacs do you have?
14:24	tridd3ll	raek: but yes, this one http://riddell.us/ClojureSwankLeiningenWithEmacsOnArch.html is much more recent
14:24	tridd3ll	and last I knew worked well
14:24	tridd3ll	rubydiamond: yes, it's my much neglected blog :-)
14:24	tridd3ll	raek: I'll try to get an update to the older entry to point to newer documentation
14:25	rubydiamond	raek: what should I do once (ad-activate 'slime-read-interactive-args) downloads all the necessary files
14:25	chrisffm	hi
14:25	raek	tridd3ll: thanks! http://github.com/technomancy/swank-clojure would be the new link-to-rule-them-all regarding swank and how to connect to it
14:26	rubydiamond	raek: nope.. technomancy's tutorial assumes you use packages.el
14:26	chrisffm	,(def a (repeat 5 (transient [])))
14:26	clojurebot	DENIED
14:26	technomancy	point it to the assembla wiki if you don't like the official docs for some reason
14:26	chrisffm	:(
14:27	seancron	rubydiamond: Can you upgrade emacs to emacs 23?
14:28	rubydiamond	seancron: it's emacs 23
14:28	raek	I'm not an emacs guru... all I know is that technomancy (who is the current maintiner of swank-clojure) has to point a lot of people to the official updated docs
14:29	raek	rubydiamond: this is my .emacs if that will provide any help: http://gist.github.com/443590
14:29	rubydiamond	raek: okay.. checking
14:29	rubydiamond	btw here is my emacs config http://github.com/anildigital/emacs
14:29	tridd3ll	raek: yep, what I'll do is preface my tutorials with links to the wiki and the relevant swank-clojure, etc links... and then if my tutorials also help (or don't work) then they can access information elsewhere
14:30	seancron	So why not use ELPA?
14:30	rubydiamond	raek: is this path in your emacs config right "/Projekt/swank-clojure/src/main/clojure" ?
14:30	rubydiamond	I can see that there is not folder named main now
14:30	rubydiamond	in swank-clojure
14:30	raek	there is tilde in that path
14:31	raek	~/Projekt/swank-clojure/ is where I keep the cloned git repo
14:31	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
14:32	rubydiamond	raek: yeah I can see but is this particular path present ".../src/main/clojure"
14:32	rubydiamond	I don't see folder named main in src folder
14:33	raek	hrm, that has probably been there for a long time
14:33	raek	just the src/ part will probably do now
14:34	rubydiamond	raek: :)
14:34	rubydiamond	right
14:34	raek	that is the root of the clojure code of swank-clojure, anyway
14:34	seancron	rubydiamond: Why can't you use package.el?
14:35	raek	and that has to be on the classpath for clojure to find the swank stuff
14:35	rubydiamond	seancron: it has all the packages listed which I have added as submodules
14:35	rubydiamond	seancron: I keep watch on submodules
14:36	rubydiamond	and when there are commits.. I just update those
14:36	raek	anyway, using slime-connect to connect to a swank server started outside emacs seems to be the preferred way now
14:36	rubydiamond	git submodule foreach git pull
14:36	rubydiamond	that is not possible with packages
14:36	rubydiamond	raek: really?
14:36	rubydiamond	then I don't need to setup my slime to connect to swank.. it's connecting to lisp now
14:37	rubydiamond	I can use slime-connect to connect swank server
14:37	raek	yes
14:37	raek	"Previous versions of Swank Clojure bundled an Elisp library called swank-clojure.el that provided ways to launch your swank server from within your Emacs process. While swank-clojure is still distributed with the project, it's a much more error-prone way of doing things than the method outlined above."
14:38	rubydiamond	oh nice
14:38	rubydiamond	then my setup is good one
14:38	rubydiamond	I thought it's wrongly I have setup
14:39	raek	there was some way of starting swank from emacs with the slime command
14:39	raek	but that does not really work well when you have multiple projects
14:39	raek	better to let the project management tool (e.g. leiningen) to set up the correct class path and launch swank
14:40	jfields	if I want to doseq over [1 2 3 4 5 6] but I want to do it in pairs such that it iterates 3 times and gives me a pair each time, how would I do that?
14:40	raek	jfields: partition
14:40	rubydiamond	raek: yeah that looks correct way..
14:40	raek	,(partition 2 [1 2 3 4 5 6])
14:40	clojurebot	((1 2) (3 4) (5 6))
14:41	jfields	cool, thanks guys
14:41	rubydiamond	lein is just awesome
14:41	rubydiamond	technomancy: can I get the stickers
14:41	rubydiamond	mailed to my address
14:41	rubydiamond	:p
14:41	raek	stickers?
14:41	rubydiamond	yeah...
14:42	technomancy	rubydiamond: sure, but you have to contribute a patch first. =)
14:42	rubydiamond	:)
14:42	rubydiamond	technomancy: hope I can do that in coming days..
14:43	rubydiamond	http://github.com/downloads/technomancy/leiningen/leiningen-banner.png is the one right?
14:44	technomancy	haven't decided yet
14:44	slyrus	mmarczyk: ah, I didn't realize that about recur with & args. thanks!
14:44	mmarczyk	slyrus: :-)
14:46	alexyk	so folks, what's the smartest, cutest way to download a bunch of web pages?
14:47	slyrus	mmarczyk: so if this were really an optional second arg intended to be called from user code, I'd do (recur ... [acc]), but since this isn't, I'm happy to cheat and just not destructure acc in the & args and... problem solved.
14:48	slyrus	but, like I said, if we're sunk here due to lack of stack space, there are probably other calls that are truly recursive calls that are going to blow the stack...
14:49	slyrus	on another resource limitation note, I did try to compute the graph-distance-matrix of a random graph with 1000 nodes and 10000 edges and ran out of heap space... not sure I really need to compute that though, so I'll skip trying to make that work until I (or somebody else) actually needs it
14:50	slyrus	mmarczyk: did you see my comment about bft-recur?
14:51	alexyk	slyrus: what are you computing?
14:51	slyrus	what am I actually computing or what am I building general infrastructure for computing?
14:51	slyrus	the stuff I'm actually doing is fairly small graphs (atoms and bonds in molecules)
14:52	slyrus	but it would be nice if the core routines in shortcut could work on graphs of 1000s of nodes
14:52	alexyk	slyrus: ah ok; but the infrastructure sounds interesting :)
14:52	mmarczyk	slyrus: my personal preference would be not to expose the extra arg at all
14:52	slyrus	which they mostly do, except for the n-x-n graph distance of all the nodes
14:52	alexyk	slyrus: usually you see graphs and paths in social web
14:53	mmarczyk	slyrus: and just go with a (letfn [(do-actual-work ...)] (do-actual-work the-only-user-visible-arg))
14:53	alexyk	(hence it stumbled on my grep :)
14:53	mmarczyk	but anyway, I need to go away for a sec, brb
14:54	raek	do-actual-work doesn't use only tail call recursion?
14:54	raek	slyrus: your library sounds relly interesting
14:55	raek	do you have a repo for it?
14:57	Nikelandjelo	How to reload some clj sources after I changed them if I use swank?
14:59	qbg	Nikelandjelo: You could recompile the file with C-c C-k
14:59	slyrus	raek: thanks
14:59	raek	you can always run (require 'the.name.space :reload) at the repl
14:59	slyrus	raek: http://github.com/slyrus/shortcut
15:01	Nikelandjelo	qbg, raek: Thanks, guys.
15:01	raek	a graph library is a really neat thing to have in one's toolbox
15:03	slyrus	yeah, that's my thinking too. c.c.graph is nice, but I needed undirected graphs, hence shortcut.
15:03	raek	slyrus: did you find out about recur vs lazy-seq?
15:04	raek	I saw some questionmarks in the source
15:04	slyrus	no, it's still a question for me
15:04	raek	ok. recursive calls in lazy-seq does not consume stack
15:05	raek	since the call is made from another place later
15:05	raek	the current stack frame is unwinded when the lazy-seq object is returned
15:06	slyrus	ok, but I can't seem to use recur in a function the returns a lazy-seq
15:06	slyrus	perhaps I'm doing something/thinking about this wrong
15:06	raek	yes.
15:06	raek	no
15:06	raek	that is the way it should
15:06	slyrus	ah, so I don't need to worry about blowing up the stack in breadth-first-traversal because I'm using a lazy-seq?
15:07	raek	yes
15:07	slyrus	ok, great. thanks!
15:07	raek	the call to your function does return after the first steo
15:07	slyrus	bft-recur can go away then
15:07	slyrus	right, got i.
15:07	slyrus	t
15:08	raek	if you don't want to expose the 3-arg function, you could let or letfn it
15:09	raek	recur has the nice property that you can specify an unnamed point to jump back to with loop
15:10	raek	like in this factorial function : (defn fac [n] (loop [n n, acc 1] (if (zero? n) acc (recur (dec n) (* n acc)))))
15:13	slyrus	yeah, yeah :)
15:15	slyrus	common-lisp programmers are used to doing all sorts of crazy things with lambda lists like &aux variables :)
15:15	slyrus	but I'll hide all of the & state vars with letfn's if folks want nice clean APIs...
15:17	chrisffm	hi
15:17	serp_	hoi
15:17	chrisffm	maybe somebody has an idea what i am doing wrong:
15:18	serp_	need more info than that
15:18	chrisffm	i googled but did not find anyone with the same problem
15:18	chrisffm	(def a (repeat 5 (transient [])))
15:19	chrisffm	and than (map #(persistent! %) a)
15:19	chrisffm	i get: java.lang.IllegalAccessError: Transient used after persistent! call
15:19	qbg	Repeat doesn't do what you want
15:19	chrisffm	not?
15:20	qbg	,(let [a (repeat 2 (transient []))] (identical? (first a) (second a)))
15:20	clojurebot	true
15:20	chrisffm	ahhh
15:20	qbg	,(let [a (repeatedly 2 #(transient []))] (identical? (first a) (second a)))
15:20	clojurebot	false
15:20	chrisffm	i see :(
15:20	raek	repeatedly takes a no-arg fn
15:20	chrisffm	okay, shame on me
15:21	chrisffm	;(
15:21	chrisffm	thank you very much
15:21	qbg	State is hard! Lets go shopping.
15:21	chrisffm	lol
15:22	chrisffm	need to finish this. then perhaps shopping ;)
15:23	chrisffm	thank you anyway
15:51	pedroteixeira	what's the current way to reload protocol impls, during an interactive repl test session?
15:52	pedroteixeira	it seems that removing/requiring namespace has no effect
15:52	chouser	try require with :reload or :reload-all
15:55	pedroteixeira	a deftype impl keeps executing old code. i've tried (alter-var-root #'my-namespace/MyProtocol assoc :impls {}) with no success
15:56	pedroteixeira	chouser: currently using lazytest, I think it does that already but will try it manually now..
15:58	pedroteixeira	even removing the generated .class, old deftype impl is execute.. :/
15:59	mmarczyk	so, is there a feature freeze in place in contrib? or maybe just on the 1.2.x branch?
16:03	mmarczyk	pedroteixeira: I'd expect it to work they way you want if you used extend (-type, -protocol) to provide the protocol impls rather than inlining them in the deftype
16:04	pedroteixeira	mmarczyk: thanks, will try that now. you can reload protocols' impls with no problem then?
16:04	mmarczyk	pedroteixeira: I guess that when you inline, the deftype-generated class implements the appropriate interface, which is simply not the one accompanying the recreated protocol
16:04	mmarczyk	well, I can check
16:04	mmarczyk	it makes sense to me that this should happen though
16:06	mmarczyk	ah, wait, I might have misunderstood what you're asking about... I think the solution is still the same, though
16:06	mmarczyk	going off to check
16:09	pedroteixeira	mmarczyk: you were right, with extend-type, impl was reloaded :)
16:09	mmarczyk	cool :-)
16:10	pedroteixeira	mmarczyk: i actually prefered the style with extend.. was only using inline before :(
16:10	mmarczyk	pedroteixeira: the question remains
16:10	mmarczyk	how do we remove impls altogether
16:10	mmarczyk	I've no idea, tbh
16:11	mmarczyk	and I'm pretty amazed to learn that (def PFoo nil) doesn't seem to help
16:14	Licenser	a question I have my-namespace.a/xxx and (use) my name-space.a in my-namespace.b then need to redefine xxx how can I remove it?
16:15	mmarczyk	(ns-unmap 'my-namespace.a 'xxx)
16:17	Licenser	way thank you!
16:17	mmarczyk	:-)
16:32	raek	slyrus: I made a gallery of various implementations of the factorial function illustrating different ways of doing recursion in clojure: http://gist.github.com/492810
16:33	raek	the book Programming Clojure as a very good chapter about this
16:35	qbg	raek: No reduce version?
16:36	raek	heh, no...
16:36	raek	that is, of course, also a very good way of implementing the factorial function
16:37	qbg	,(take 10 (reductions * 1 (iterate inc 1)))
16:37	clojurebot	(1 1 2 6 24 120 720 5040 40320 362880)
16:38	mmarczyk	(def facts (concat [1] (lazy-seq (map * facts (iterate inc 1)))))
16:39	raek	I manly wrote the gist to show how recursive calls looks like in different situations
16:39	mmarczyk	actually skip the lazy-seq
16:39	raek	there are of course better ways of implementing factorial
16:39	raek	...than those I showed
16:40	raek	a self-refering one, how neat!
16:41	qbg	Why recurse when you can get a function to do it for you?
16:41	mmarczyk	there's also (take 10 (cseq/rec-seq facts (concat [1] (map * facts (iterate inc 1))))) with cseq = clojure.contrib.seq ... ok, enough ;-)
16:43	raek	qbg: I prefer composition of functions too, but that was not the point of the gist
16:45	miltondsilva	hi, what exactly is a sequence?
16:46	qbg	,(trampoline ((fn fact [n acc] (if (= n 0) acc #(fact (dec n) (* n acc)))) 5 1))
16:46	clojurebot	120
16:46	slyrus	raek: I find myself using reduce mostly
16:46	raek	miltondsilva: a sequence is a sequential view of a collection
16:46	miltondsilva	I'm having some problems understanding the whole seq? sequential?
16:46	raek	,(seq [1 2 3])
16:46	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
16:47	raek	well, first of all, you can test wether the object in front of you is a sequence with seq?
16:47	raek	,(seq? (seq [1 2 3]))
16:47	clojurebot	true
16:47	raek	of course...
16:47	raek	but
16:47	raek	,(seq? [1 2 3])
16:47	clojurebot	false
16:47	qbg	,(sequential? '(1 2 3))
16:47	clojurebot	true
16:47	qbg	,(sequential? [:a 5 :c])
16:47	clojurebot	true
16:48	chouser	be careful with these terms. They're often used casually and in a way that's somewhat imprecise.
16:48	qbg	,(sequential? {:a 4, :b 5})
16:48	clojurebot	false
16:48	miltondsilva	hmm... shouldn't they both return true?
16:48	miltondsilva	after looking at the clojure-cheat-sheet
16:48	raek	seqs support two operations: first and rest
16:48	miltondsilva	.(first [1 2 3])
16:48	qbg	miltondsilva: Which two?
16:49	miltondsilva	(seq? [1 2 3]) -> true?
16:49	qbg	,(first [1 2 3])
16:49	clojurebot	1
16:49	qbg	Works because first calls seq on its argument
16:49	raek	as a convenience feature, first, rest and the functions in the sequence library calls seq on its argument
16:49	qbg	A vector is not a seq
16:50	raek	so, vectors don't support first and rest themselves
16:50	raek	but when calling seq on them, they return a seq-of-vector object
16:50	chouser	'sequential?' has very limited use. It only returns true for objects that implement clojure.lang.Sequential, but that's rarely a useful fact to know.
16:50	miltondsilva	hmm.. but vectors maps lists etc aren't sequences? so what are they? is there some pred that can be use to identify them? (much like the original atom)
16:50	raek	that basically keeps track of which vector it belongs to and which index of it
16:51	qbg	,(vector? [1 2 3])
16:51	clojurebot	true
16:51	qbg	,(map? {:a 5, :b 3})
16:51	clojurebot	true
16:51	raek	so (seq [1 2 3]) would return something that knows about [1 2 3] and index 0
16:51	slyrus	this doesn't do what I expect: (with-open [r (io/reader "/etc/passwd")] (take 2 (line-seq r)))
16:51	slyrus	take 1 works, but the stream is closed after that.
16:52	raek	caling 'first' on that will lookup index 0 in the vector, and return 1
16:52	qbg	slyrus: Take returns a lazy seq, perhaps you should use doall?
16:52	raek	calling rest in it will make a new thinh that knows about the vector and index 1
16:52	raek	*on it
16:53	chouser	perhaps 'coll?'
16:55	raek	miltondsilva: if you have 2h over, I recomment watching http://clojure.blip.tv/file/734409/
16:55	raek	(one thing about that one, though: what he refers to as 'rest' is now called 'next', (defn next [x] (seq (rest x))) )
16:56	slyrus	qbg: sure, but that kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it? I was just surprised that line-seq only lets you read one line at a time. perhaps I'm doing something wrong.
16:56	slyrus	this works: (with-open [r (io/reader "/etc/passwd")] [(take 1 (line-seq r)) (take 1 (line-seq r))])
16:57	slyrus	,(with-open [r (io/reader "/etc/passwd")] [(take 1 (line-seq r)) (take 1 (line-seq r))])
16:57	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: No such namespace: io
16:57	miltondsilva	I do.. and will watch it now... anyway, it seems to me that something like atom whould be a good thing too have in core.. I guess
16:57	slyrus	(with-open [r (clojure.java.io/reader "/etc/passwd")] [(take 1 (line-seq r)) (take 1 (line-seq r))])
16:57	slyrus	,(with-open [r (clojure.java.io/reader "/etc/passwd")] [(take 1 (line-seq r)) (take 1 (line-seq r))])
16:57	clojurebot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.io.FilePermission /etc/passwd read)
16:57	slyrus	heh. didn't think that would work.
16:59	qbg	slyrus: Take a look at the source of line-seq
16:59	raek	slyrus: the with-open macro will close the reader when the caller returns
16:59	qbg	The first element is not lazy, which is why it works in that case
17:00	raek	since line-seq is lazy, it will not have read everything when the close is done
17:00	slyrus	oh, thanks raek
17:00	raek	close would have to be lazy too
17:00	slyrus	awesome
17:00	slyrus	(with-open [r (io/reader "/etc/passwd")] (doall (take 4 (line-seq r))))
17:01	slyrus	qbg: I missed your point about where to put the doall!
17:01	raek	you can roll your own line-seq and make that close the reader
17:02	chouser	there's one of those in contirb already, but it's not recommended
17:03	raek	(defn my-line-seq [rdr] (lazy-seq (if-let [line (.readLine rdr)] (cons line (my-line-seq rdr)) (do (.close rdr) nil))))
17:03	raek	chouser: hrm, why?
17:04	raek	bad habit to close some else's file?
17:04	chouser	raek: because it's linking a real side-effect (the releasing of OS resources) with the consumption of a lazy seq
17:04	raek	isn't the .readLine call a real side-effect too?
17:05	raek	it removes bytes from the stream
17:05	chouser	it's very easy to forget you must walk to the end of the seq in order to close the file, esp since the consumer of the seq may be very far away from the creator
17:05	raek	ah, I see
17:07	raek	so the user should close the file himself when he's done with it, which is independent on how many lines actually got read
17:07	chouser	yes
17:07	chouser	and with-open provides a convenient way to do that while keeping the open and close near each other.
17:09	chouser	if your lazy seq leaks out past the with-open, then you'll get an error when you try to read an uncached step of the seq.
17:27	krunaldo	Hi guys! Is there any support for byte arrays out of the box?
17:27	krunaldo	I find some references with java using bytes but I don't really see how(reading the docs on Byte on java-doc).
17:28	qbg	,(byte-array 10)
17:28	clojurebot	#<byte[] [B@a71c3a>
17:28	krunaldo	now I feel really stupid :)
17:28	qbg	,(make-array Byte/TYPE 10)
17:28	clojurebot	#<byte[] [B@1ba63a4>
17:29	qbg	,(byte-array [(byte 1) (byte 2) (byte 3)])
17:29	clojurebot	#<byte[] [B@18259c8>
17:29	qbg	,(seq (byte-array [(byte 1) (byte 2) (byte 3)]))
17:29	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
17:29	chrisffm	lol
17:30	chrisffm	(into-array Byte/TYPE (range 10))
17:30	chrisffm	;-)
17:30	krunaldo	:)
17:30	krunaldo	Is there any nifty way to add them all into one int?
17:31	qbg	,(reduce + (byte-array [(byte 1) (byte 2) (byte 3)]))
17:31	clojurebot	6
17:31	qbg	,(reduce + [1 2 3])
17:31	clojurebot	6
17:31	krunaldo	Ah
17:32	krunaldo	I meant making them into to a bitfield
17:32	qbg	You mean bitwise or them?
17:33	krunaldo	more like shifting them
17:33	chrisffm	hm use shift-left
17:34	qbg	So the first 8 bits comes from the first, the next 8 comes from the second, etc?
17:34	chrisffm	should not be to complicated
17:34	krunaldo	qbg: yes
17:34	qbg	,(reduce #(bit-or (bit-shift-left %1 8) %2) 0 [1 2 3])
17:34	clojurebot	66051
17:35	qbg	Well, the highest 8 come from the first there
17:35	riddochc	Hmmm.
17:35	riddochc	,(byte 255)
17:35	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Value out of range for byte: 255
17:35	qbg	You can always reverse the sequence first
17:36	qbg	The jvm's lack of unsigned math can be troubling sometimes.
17:36	riddochc	Signed, evidently.
17:36	krunaldo	Highest first is okay, I'm doing some IP-address stuff so that should be fine
17:37	krunaldo	thx! :)
17:42	tashafa	test
17:42	tashafa	yay!
17:42	tashafa	finally got emacs to work in #clojure
17:49	slyrus	raek: no thanks on the my-line-seq thing! I'm used to with-open-file and friends from CL, so I get nervous when I see file IO without one of those nearby :)
17:53	slyrus	how do I get the fields of a record type?
17:54	arohner	slyrus: .getFields on the class
17:54	arohner	http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/Class.html
17:54	slyrus	thanks arohner!
17:55	slyrus	meh java arrays... I was hoping defrecord would expose the fields clojurishly. oh well.
17:56	raek	but, but, but... this library is what I've been coding on for a month: http://wiki.github.com/ztellman/aleph/channels
17:57	raek	I was planning on releasing an alpha of mine this week...
17:57	qbg	slyrus: You could do (keys ...) on a defrecord instance
17:57	qbg	For the map based interface that defrecord provides
17:58	slyrus	well, yeah, except I'm trying to figure out how to populate my instances :) I was hoping I could get some help from the record type itself :)
17:58	qbg	Perhaps the defrecord2 macro would help that was floating around?
17:58	slyrus	wuzzat?
17:59	qbg	http://david-mcneil.com/post/765563763/enhanced-clojure-records
18:09	arkh	As a music major, did Rich learn math and algorithms on his own or through more formal means?
18:19	pedroteixeira	is there something similar to scala's regexp parser for clojure?
18:36	slyrus	,(defrecord Foo [bogosity annoyance])
18:36	clojurebot	DENIED
18:36	slyrus	bah
18:36	slyrus	ok, well, the problem is I don't know how to (apply Foo. ...)
18:37	qbg	You can't apply Foo.
18:37	qbg	You could do something like (apply #(Foo. %1 %2 ...) ...)
18:38	qbg	You could also do some reflection magic
18:47	KirinDave	slyrus: You'd need a helper function to apply that.
18:59	slyrus	I don't suppose there's a (make-instance 'Foo ...) hiding in the bushes somewhere then?
18:59	slyrus	I need a helper because Foo. is a macro?
19:00	cemerick	slyrus: Foo. is sugar for (new Foo ...)
19:00	slyrus	oh, great! thanks!
19:00	cemerick	e.g. invokes a constructor
19:00	cemerick	slyrus: apply cannot be used with ctors.
19:01	slyrus	yes, I hear there are these constructor things. It's unclear how to write one or otherwise supply default values for fields in records.
19:01	cemerick	slyrus: blog post coming very shortly :-)
19:01	slyrus	cool. oh, wait, let me guess again... new is a macro not a function so I can't apply that either. hrm...
19:01	cemerick	ctors are automatically generated for deftype and defrecord classes
19:02	slyrus	(apply new '(Foo. :high :medium)) would be nice
19:02	cemerick	new is a special form
19:02	slyrus	right, ok.
19:03	slyrus	I'm sure there's a reason, but I can't see why new couldn't just be a regular function.
19:04	lancepantz	dnolen: you around?
19:07	cemerick	slyrus: this is decidedly bad practice, but: https://gist.github.com/bab9181cf1f1eda95caf
19:08	cemerick	blog tomorrow morning about defrecord defaults
19:10	slyrus	cemerick: it's a little disturbing that that works :)
19:11	slyrus	of course that's still a macro, so I can't apply that anyway, which is what a really want. argh...
19:20	cemerick	slyrus: wrapping that with a fn you can apply is totally reasonable
19:22	slyrus	the compiler doesn't seem to think so, but perhaps that's operator error on my part
19:23	slyrus	I'm probably doing something stupid: (defn bogus [args] (apply-ctor Foo args))
19:33	KirinDave	,(apply apply '(+ 1 2))
19:33	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Integer
19:56	raek	,(apply apply [+ [1 2]])
19:56	clojurebot	3
20:06	KirinDave	raek: Funny how awkward that is to write using lists as containers. :)
20:06	KirinDave	,(apply apply '(+ (1 2)))
20:06	clojurebot	2
20:06	KirinDave	:)
20:06	wwmorgan	,(apply apply (list + (list 1 2)))
20:06	clojurebot	3
20:07	KirinDave	No I know.
20:07	KirinDave	It's just funny how the '() is such a ballsack sometimes. :)
20:07	wwmorgan	yes. I puzzled over that for a good five minutes :-P
20:08	KirinDave	I am still not sure what ('+ 1 2) does.
20:08	wwmorgan	the symbol is behaving like an accessor
20:09	gfrlog	,('+ 1 2)
20:09	clojurebot	2
20:09	KirinDave	but
20:09	KirinDave	,('+ 1)
20:09	clojurebot	nil
20:09	KirinDave	I guess it's just the default coming through
20:09	KirinDave	But it makes for some amusing bugs.
20:09	gfrlog	,('* 1 2)
20:09	clojurebot	2
20:09	technomancy	,((ancestors (class '+)) clojure.lang.IFn)
20:09	clojurebot	clojure.lang.IFn
20:10	gfrlog	,('bit-shift-right 1 2)
20:10	clojurebot	2
20:10	KirinDave	Stopped Clock. :)
20:10	gfrlog	so symbols are functions that return their second argument?
20:10	KirinDave	No.
20:10	gfrlog	,('* 1 2 3)
20:10	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (3) passed to: Symbol
20:11	KirinDave	,(:test {:test 1})
20:11	clojurebot	1
20:11	gfrlog	that's a keyword
20:11	KirinDave	,(:test {})
20:11	clojurebot	nil
20:11	gfrlog	a keyword in clojure is a symbol in ruby is an atom in erlang
20:11	technomancy	oh, calling a symbol calls RT.get with this as the second arg
20:11	KirinDave	,('test {'test 1})
20:11	clojurebot	1
20:11	KirinDave	,('test {})
20:11	clojurebot	nil
20:11	gfrlog	ooh nice
20:12	KirinDave	,('test {} :default)
20:12	clojurebot	:default
20:12	KirinDave	Tadaaa
20:12	technomancy	just like keywords... only nobody does it.
20:12	KirinDave	technomancy: Just like keywords because they are keywords. :)
20:12	gfrlog	symbols are keywords?
20:12	KirinDave	Or rather, keywords are them.
20:12	KirinDave	gfodor: I dunno if that's strictly true, but a keyword is just a symbol in a universal top level namespace.
20:13	KirinDave	The reason we don't use 'test and prefer to use :test for keys is that 'test gets mapped to your current namespace
20:13	technomancy	interesting that .invoke on keywords does a little more smarts surrounding ILookup than symbols do.
20:13	KirinDave	So user/test and funky/test are different values.
20:13	technomancy	wonder if there's a reason for that
20:14	KirinDave	technomancy: No idea.
20:14	KirinDave	,(apply apply '(+ (1 0))) ; A pretty funny bug tho, wouldn't you agree?
20:14	clojurebot	0
20:15	KirinDave	Not in clojure, of course.
20:15	technomancy	yeah, it's pretty weird
20:15	technomancy	or at least, weird to debug.
20:34	slyrus	bah. out of heap space... how do i start my process (with lein swank preferably) with a decent sized heap?
20:41	gfrlog	I'm doing some really low level number crunching. Mostly just a bunch of adds/subtract/multiplies using integers (likely bigints). A naive clojure implementation is a lot slower than I'd like. Does anybody have any suggestions about what I should try first for optimization? Type hints? Transients? A bit of java code?
20:41	gfrlog	I did some profiling and the results were a bit bizarre: most time spent in var resolution
22:51	slyrus	JAVA_OPTS=-Xmx1g lein swank seems to do the trick
23:07	lancepantz	slyrus: not from my experiences, i would hook a profiler up to it
23:15	daaku	is there a way to get a string back from pprint for use with logging? (i haven't gotten to the streams chapter yet :)
23:18	slyrus	lancepantz: killed the process. I think something had gone haywire. I suppose I should figure out how to inspect processes a bit at some point.
23:21	lancepantz	slyrus: i didn't find much use for it outside of optimizing garbage collection
23:21	slyrus	still, I'd like to be able to find out where my processes/threads are when things go awry, which they certainly will at some point.
23:21	lancepantz	ofcourse
23:25	chouser	Ctrl-\ on unix
23:27	chouser	that was for slyrus. -)
23:27	chouser	:-)
23:27	slyrus	chouser: that's fantastic! thanks!
23:28	chouser	,(with-out-str (clojure.pprint/pprint []))
23:28	clojurebot	"[]\n"
23:28	chouser	and that's for daaku.
23:28	slyrus	for me too :)
23:28	daaku	chouser: cool, i got it working using a StringWriter thing too
23:29	slyrus	yay. 104855 movies and 76251 actors loaded up in shortcut. Now to connect one set to the other for my kevin-bacon-solver.
23:30	daaku	chouser: with-out-st is cool
23:31	slyrus	and it's 9 chars shorter than CL's with-output-to-string!
23:31	slyrus	:)
23:32	daaku	is there a way to make some clojure code always available during development? it'd be nice to have this pprint enabled logging function globally available without needing to import stuff
23:49	daaku	is it possible to add something to the clojure namespace such that it's automatically available in every namespace when the ns macro automatically refers the clojure namespace? i want to do this in a script i load in my dev environment
23:57	daaku	this (in-ns 'clojure) (def p my-lib/p) makes (clojure/p "hi") work, but (p "hi") still doesn't work, and fails with "Unable to resolve symbol: p in this context"
23:59	wwmorgan	daaku: would a user.clj work for your purposes?