#clojure – 2010-07-20

2010-07-20

00:05	Bahman	Hi all!
00:08	cais2002	is this the correct and latest way to refer to clj-apache-http in leiningen? [com.twinql.clojure/clj-apache-http "2.0.2"]
00:09	cais2002	how do I link this to the source, e.g., is it the one on github? http://github.com/rnewman/clj-apache-http
00:11	Apage43	aleph is cool but has anyone done stuff with the client parts or the rest of netty in general?
00:31	tomoj	Apage43: http://github.com/neotyk/ahc-clj
00:31	tomoj	dunno if it's any good
00:31	Apage43	just found it
00:32	Apage43	looks like it's abstracted even higher
00:32	Apage43	will be trying it out
00:34	Apage43	mostly i needed something i could point at a continuous http feed that wouldn't require keeping a thread around
00:34	tomoj	the clojure looks pretty ugly so I'm skeptical
00:34	Apage43	http.agent was sort of working, but i couldn't use a second http.agent from inside another one's handler, it would just block.
00:35	Apage43	if the handler waited for another agent to do anything, anyway
00:36	Apage43	I might just write something that only does what i need though, becuase ahc-clj is like, 5 levels of abstraction away from nio and that just feels clunky
00:47	cais2002	what's the difference between `~'abc and using abc directly in a macro definition?
00:49	KirinDave	cais2002: Try typing `~'abc and `abc on the repl.
00:51	KirinDave	cais2002: You can use ~'sym to capture variables.
01:29	konr	Is there another way to connect some arbitrary function to slots in QT besides proxying a function?
02:55	LauJensen	Good morning all
02:56	konr	Hello
02:58	cobol_expert	good evening
02:58	cobol_expert	what types of config files are normally used in clojure projects?
02:59	cobol_expert	xml or just clojure lists
03:00	cobol_expert	or maybe no particular preference
03:06	LauJensen	cobol_expert: Ive seen a little bit of everything, though not a lot of xml. Regular configs where var=value\newline are supremely easy to parse, as are clojure datastructures
03:06	cobol_expert	okay, I'll stick with clojure lists
03:07	cobol_expert	i think that's what emacs does with lisp
03:09	tomoj	project.clj is a good example I suppose
03:14	LauJensen	tomoj: Too much work a simple config
03:14	LauJensen	A normal var=value, #comment file can be slurped in a single expression
03:14	cobol_expert	I would, but I need some structure
03:14	LauJensen	like?
03:15	cobol_expert	like xml
03:15	cobol_expert	actually, in clojure, it'll be a tree of structs
03:15	LauJensen	{:settings {:x 5 :y 10}}
03:15	LauJensen	vs
03:16	LauJensen	# settings
03:16	LauJensen	x=5
03:16	LauJensen	y=10
03:16	cobol_expert	first one
03:17	LauJensen	still very easy to parse, using a combination of read-string and slurp I suppose
03:17	Raynes	cobol_expert: I typically use a file containing a Clojure map for my configuration. I wrote a small library for that, even. http://github.com/Raynes/clj-config as far as I know, sexpbot is the only real project using it, so I can't promise awesomeness. Might be useful for you though.
03:17	cobol_expert	yeah, i don't think xml is the way to go
03:18	tomoj	LauJensen: you're right, project.clj is a terrible example
03:18	cobol_expert	thanks Raynes, i'll take a look
03:20	Raynes	cobol_expert: The idea is that the configuration is just Clojure data-structures. clj-config just abstracts over the reading and writing of those files and data structures, and then you can use the normal Clojure sequence functions for working with the configuration.
03:20	Raynes	Clojure maps are liek teh awesomest configuration format. :)
03:20	Raynes	Goodnight, friends. <3
03:21	LauJensen	Goodnight old buddy
03:40	dpritchett	Is there a solid install guide for vimclojure 2.2 snapshot? I see that Meikel prefers gradle and doesn't want to handhold folks with the install but if there's anyone else who's willing that would help a lot. I'd be happy to reblog the advice for others, too.
03:44	Apage43	dpritchett: if you figure this out that'd be awesome
03:44	Apage43	i have been trying to beat vimclojure into submission for a while now
03:45	Apage43	when it's working i really love it but i haven't gotten it into a working state on my mac yet
03:45	dpritchett	I'm trying with leiningen and ubuntu, not much luck since I started with 2.2
03:46	Apage43	i always get the could not determine namespace error
03:47	Apage43	through lein or not
03:50	dpritchett	I see some guy claims to have fixed it with a patch to the jar here http://groups.google.com/group/vimclojure/browse_thread/thread/a717b33d63178abd/03cfd155ef4990e4
03:50	dpritchett	I'm trying to reproduce that but I don't really know how to point to his new jar yet
03:50	dpritchett	I'm messing around in /libs though
04:07	dpritchett	hm.. I've gotten to the point where I can invoke a repl with :call vimclojure#StartRepl()
04:07	dpritchett	but my localleader (i.e. \sr) isn't responding
04:12	cais2002	,`~'abc
04:12	clojurebot	abc
04:12	cais2002	,`abc
04:12	clojurebot	sandbox/abc
04:15	raek	,::hello/foo
04:15	clojurebot	:hello-from-raek/foo
04:17	tomoj	oh?
04:17	tomoj	,::hello/foo
04:17	clojurebot	:hello-from-raek/foo
04:17	tomoj	you find a security hole?
04:37	bsteuber	anyone using lein-javac with leiningen 1.2 ?
04:38	cais2002	,::hihi/foo
04:38	clojurebot	Invalid token: ::hihi/foo
04:38	raek	,(ns add-alias-to-black-list)
04:38	clojurebot	nil
04:39	raek	,(alias 'todo 'add-alias-to-black-list)
04:39	clojurebot	nil
04:39	raek	,::todo/x
04:39	clojurebot	:add-alias-to-black-list/x
04:39	raek	side effects!
05:17	bartj	how do I revert back to a particular version of a CouchDB document ?
05:22	tomoj	wrong channel
05:25	bartj	tomoj, sorry wrong window!
06:02	Licenser	Good Morning
06:10	AWizzArd	I have (def x 'clojure.java.io) and would like to call (x/reader "my/file") - how can I do this?
06:12	tomoj	you can't
06:12	tomoj	but you could do ((ns-resolve x 'reader) "my/file")
06:12	AWizzArd	yes, ns-resolve is it
06:13	AWizzArd	good
06:14	Licenser	Cant you require with As?
06:18	AWizzArd	Licenser: I don't know what is inside x
06:19	AWizzArd	I only know that the ns named by x will contain a specific symbol
06:21	Licenser	Ah okay
06:21	Licenser	You cacn make a macro for that ;)
06:22	Licenser	I think I get what you want, having a ns passed to a function and then using this ns as a root for some code in it right?
06:27	Licenser	This is a classic: college in a telco 'I'm not sure who is responsible for the odor'
06:27	AWizzArd	I want a web server that, depending on which site it is running (locally in my dev environment, at a customer, etc), requires a NS containing the right fns and routes.
06:36	hoeck	AWizzard: just require the correct namespace at app startup-time?
06:38	Licenser	I think that won't work with cmpilation
06:49	AWizzArd	hoeck: only later, after the config file has been loaded I will know the namespace.
06:49	AWizzArd	So, the app is already partially running.
06:50	AWizzArd	Anyway, now I've got a working solution, via ns-resolve.
06:51	hoeck	but you could still decide (after the initial config loading stage) which namespace to require
06:54	Licenser	Ns intern and ns something else work too and quite well
06:54	Licenser	I used them for a stupid template engine
07:12	AWizzArd	hoeck: yes, I load the config and then decide which NS I want to require. And this then happens.
07:12	AWizzArd	And in this NS I access a specific var then, and can start the server.
07:54	Joreji	Hey guys, is it possible to establish a new binding for a variable from a different namespace using a macro?
07:55	Joreji	I have a function in namespace B, which uses a globally defined variable. I want to rebind that variable within namespace A.
08:07	cemerick	Joreji: see binding
08:09	cemerick	Joreji: But, what are you doing, exactly? It sounds like you're using vars as variables (which is decidedly wrong).
08:14	Joreji	cemerick: I have a (def some-function (fn [] (throw. (Exception. "Not inside context")))) which binds a function inside ns B. Futhermore I have a macro inside ns B which binds some-function using: (binding [some-function (fn [] the-context)]). Now I want to use the macro inside ns A in order to establish the context and bind some-function to return the context. However, that does not work (I get the initial function, not the ...
08:14	Joreji	... newly bound one).
08:16	cemerick	Joreji: binding does not change the root value of the var -- the bound value is only effective within the lexical scope of the binding form, and thread-local.
08:17	Joreji	Yes, which is why I use a macro which expands into code which 1.) establishes the new binding for some-function and 2.) calls the body of the macro within the (binding [...]) form
08:18	Joreji	From what I understand, within the (binding) body the new binding should be bound, no?
08:18	cemerick	yes
08:18	cemerick	Joreji: if you can paste code, that'd be helpful
08:25	Joreji	cemerick: I've already tried a simplified example, but there it works. There must be something wrong with my code I fear.
08:26	Joreji	cemerick: If I can nail it down, I'll come back - thanks for the help anyway :)
08:37	Joreji	cemerick: Figured it out. The binding body returned a lazy sequence. Once that was evaluated inside the repl, the old binding was established. A doall did the trick.
08:37	cemerick	Joreji: yup, that'll happen ;-)
08:50	cemerick	Is it expected that getting an iterator from a lazy seq will force the seq? That doesn't seem right at all.
08:54	unfo-	nope, doesn't sound right, since you could loop an infinite seq
08:54	unfo-	s/loop/iterate/
08:54	sexpbot	nope, doesn't sound right, since you could iterate an infinite seq
08:55	cemerick	unfo-: except...
08:55	cemerick	,(.iterator (for [x (range 5)] (do (println x) x)))
08:55	clojurebot	#<SeqIterator clojure.lang.SeqIterator@93c2>
08:55	clojurebot	0 1 2 3 4
08:56	unfo-	do note that the REPL and actual clj code sometimes act differently
08:56	unfo-	because the REPL wants to print stuff for you
08:56	cemerick	unfo-: The same thing happens if I simply def the iterator.
08:56	unfo-	for example when I once DID want a lazy list iterated and I tried it in REPL it worked - but in my clj prog it didn't
08:57	unfo-	but my clojure-fu is not strong enough to tell you what's going wrong with that line :)
08:57	unfo-	i've not done any in 6 months or so
09:05	cemerick	it actually has nothing to do with .iterator
09:05	cemerick	,(-> (for [x (range 5)] (do (println x) x)) seq boolean)
09:05	clojurebot	true
09:05	clojurebot	0 1 2 3 4
09:08	tomoj	huh
09:08	tomoj	as soon as you call seq, the whole thing is forced?
09:08	tomoj	that doesn't seem right either...
09:08	cemerick	no, something's very wrong
09:08	tomoj	ohhh
09:08	tomoj	wait a minute
09:08	tomoj	aha
09:08	cemerick	do tell :-)
09:08	tomoj	try (-> (for [x (range 100)] (do (println x) x)) seq boolean)
09:09	tomoj	and note where it stops
09:09	cemerick	ah, the chunking
09:09	cemerick	hrm
09:10	cemerick	that's a bit of a problem though, insofar as I'm attempting to use for to lazily load data from disk :-)
09:11	tomoj	won't for defer to the chunkiness of whatever's in the binding form?
09:12	tomoj	,(-> (for [x (take 100 (iterate inc 0))] (do (println x) x)) seq boolean)
09:12	clojurebot	true
09:12	clojurebot	0
09:13	cemerick	tomoj: Good catch. http://blog.fogus.me/2010/01/22/de-chunkifying-sequences-in-clojure/ for more.
09:21	cemerick	tomoj: a gnarly way to force one-at-a-time:
09:21	cemerick	,(-> (for [x (->> [1 2 3] (map list) (apply concat))] (do (println x) x)) seq boolean)
09:21	clojurebot	true
09:21	clojurebot	1
09:36	Chousuke	cemerick: would that work with just mapcat? :)
10:04	saml	does clojure come with http library?
10:04	cemerick	Chousuke: definitely -- that was mostly the result of a little flailing around. :-/
10:43	nDuff	saml, not sure about "come with", but there are lots of 3rd-party frameworks available; see for instance Compojure and Ring, both listed at http://clojure.org/libraries
11:26	yesudeep	Does leiningen work with msys on Windows?
11:28	yesudeep	Also, I'd appreciate if one of the operators told me why my nickname yesudeep` is banned in here.
11:30	cemerick	yesudeep: we don't have an op here, unfortunately. The owner of the channel has been awol for a while, and IIRC, the admins haven't responded helpfully to making rhickey (or someone!) owner.
11:35	maravillas	yesudeep: i haven't been able to get lein working in msys...msys is missing the dirtools util
11:35	maravillas	which the lein script references
11:35	Chousuke	yesudeep: it might not be banned; you just need to be identified to be able to chat here
11:36	yesudeep	ah
11:36	Chousuke	yesudeep: unfortunately irc clients don't differentiate between banning and registration-requirements :/
11:38	defn	cemerick: really? ive had good experiences with the ops
11:38	cemerick	defn: I've not been involved in that, but that's what I remember hearing.
11:38	defn	well it would make sense they weren't receptive
11:39	defn	because jcowan was online 12 hours ago
11:39	defn	:)
11:39	cemerick	um, who? ;-)
11:39	defn	the channel owner
11:41	cemerick	s/with/of
11:44	defn	cemerick: keep it that way. it's a waste of time :)
11:46	defn	http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~remzi/Classes/537/Fall2009/Projects/ -- which of these would be the most fun to port/redo in clojure?
11:46	defn	obviously rolling your own malloc is kind of out of the picture
11:48	arkh	is it bad form to bind a symbol to itself in a loop? Trumped up example follows:
11:49	arkh	(def x 10)
11:49	arkh	(loop [y 0, x x]
11:49	arkh	(if (zero? x)
11:49	arkh	y
11:49	arkh	(recur (+ 1 y) (dec x))))
11:49	defn	yeah that doesnt look right
11:49	arkh	I appreciate your honesty : )
11:50	defn	:)
11:50	tomoj	I think I've done that before
11:50	defn	yeah but it's a bit ugly
11:50	defn	there are better ways of going about it
11:50	cemerick	arkh: that's fine IMO, especially if x is semantically the same
11:51	cemerick	arkh: though do use a pastebin next time :-)
11:51	defn	it's fine, but ugly
11:51	defn	IMHO
11:51	tomoj	what's a better way? come up with a new name for the loop var?
11:51	cemerick	defn: you'd name a new binding just to avoid quashing an old one?
11:52	defn	yeah i guess i would
11:52	defn	:\
11:52	tomoj	I guess the shadowing could be confusing in some places
11:52	arkh	what I want to do is take a list of things and create a new list of those things in random order. I grab a random element from the list, append to the new list, and take two subvec of the old list to rebind to that
11:52	arkh	will do pastebin next time
11:54	arkh	i.e., take two subvec's with the randomly chosen element excluded, thereby removing it from further use
11:55	defn	http://dosync.posterous.com/clojure-nodejs-and-why-messaging-can-be-lame
11:55	defn	could someone explain to me why in his code he didn't use a ref around the atom?
11:55	tomoj	arkh: and then what, recur?
11:56	tomoj	oh, I think I see
11:56	arkh	tomoj: yes, then recur. Each time one element is removed until nothing remains of the old list and the new list has elements appended in random order
11:57	cemerick	defn: Why would he need a ref around the atom?
11:57	tomoj	wouldn't you have to concat the two subvecs?
11:57	defn	cemerick: cemerick oh god sorry
11:58	defn	im crazy
12:01	arkh	tomoj: I am using concat with the two subvecs - (doall (concat (subvec iplist 0 r) (subvec iplist (inc r) (count iplist))))
12:01	tomoj	cool
12:01	arkh	tomoj: with 'r' being that randomly chosen element
12:02	arkh	tomoj: (let [r (rand-int (count iplist))] ... )
12:02	tomoj	what's the doall for?
12:03	arkh	concat produces a lazy sequence (I think) and I need to whole thing to happen
12:03	raek	I wish things like this happened where I lived http://strangeloop2010.com/speakers
12:04	tomoj	why do you need the whole thing to happen, though?
12:04	arkh	so that recur can provide the entire list back to the loop for the next iteration
12:05	arkh	it's possible I have that wrong ... still debugging and, more importantly, still learning clojure
12:05	arkh	raek: I second that :/
12:06	raek	almost every talk is about something I have a deep interest in
12:06	raek	even the klein bottle guy will be there!
12:08	tomoj	arkh: once you get it working, try removing the doall
12:08	tomoj	I bet you don't need it
12:08	tomoj	lazy is good :)
12:13	AWizzArd	Any Ant expert here who knows 'zipgroupfileset' pretty good? I have a folder containing five .jar files and a few .txt files. I say excludes="*.txt" and it works pretty good. It unpacks the contents of the .jar into my own one.
12:13	AWizzArd	But how can I exclude files that are inside those 5 jars that I want to überjar into my jar?
12:15	Licenser	hmm has anyone played with swing here?
12:17	arkh	tomoj: will do/try - thanks
12:29	cemerick	Licenser: played, used, loved, hated, and saddened by, yes.
12:29	Licenser	cemerick: because I've some issues with the REPL, it makes the swing app locking untill I press return a dozent times, and some output isn't printed either. Did you encounter similar problems?
12:30	cemerick	Licenser: which app, which REPL, etc?
12:30	Licenser	my app, and the slime/swank repl of emacs
12:31	cemerick	can't help there -- sounds like you're running REPL stuff on the event thread though
12:31	Licenser	I know you can#t see output in the usual one but only in the inferior lisp buffer but even there it didn't help
12:31	Licenser	nods okay
12:32	Licenser	but thanks cemerick
12:32	cemerick	FWIW :-)
12:32	cemerick	any kind of UI hanging is always the execution of non-UI-related stuff on the event thread.
12:33	Licenser	heh
12:56	slyrus	huh. I didn't think this was going to be the case at first, but an immutable approach to a graph library really makes a lot of sense. a functional approach really simplifies some code.
12:57	tomoj	how'd you do it?
12:57	slyrus	(defn remove-connected-component [g start] (let [neighbors (neighbors g start)] (reduce remove-connected-component (remove-node g start) neighbors)))
12:57	tomoj	I once tried translating that paper on inductive graphs into clojure but failed
12:58	slyrus	tomoj: thanks for that pointer. i'll check it out.
12:59	slyrus	tomoj: http://github.com/slyrus/shortcut if you want to check it out. very much both a work in progress and a learning-clojure exercise for me, but it's been fun.
13:00	cemerick	slyrus: you've seen c.c.graph?
13:00	slyrus	cemerick: directed graphs only
13:00	cemerick	Far from complete, but it's a damn nice start
13:00	cemerick	sure
13:17	slyrus	oh, that's nice. with a simple closure for :neighbors I can map c.c.graph on top of my graph stuff.
13:22	slyrus	cemerick: yeah, c.c.graph is pretty nice. I just didn't understand what to do with it when I first started this project. hrm...
13:26	defn	how do i include the 1.2.0 beta in leiningen?
13:26	defn	1.2.0-beta1?
13:28	defn	is the hamiltonian cycle directed?
13:28	defn	hmm
13:32	rjevans	Yeah, I use 1.2.0-beta1 in my project.clj
13:32	defn	k thanks
13:39	cemerick	slyrus: yeah, it's a generalized model AFAIU
13:41	Plouj	so what does dynamic typing mean in clojure as it compares to the typing in Jav?
13:41	Plouj	Java*
13:42	chouser	Plouj: in Java you have to declare the type of every local, every function argument, every function return value.
13:43	chouser	in clojure you aren't required to declare any of those -- they're discovered, if needed, at runtime.
13:46	cemerick	gah, not being able to reliably load classes with the "same" name, just different cases, is quite the irritant when you're generating function names and AOT'ing the results.
14:04	rubydiamond	Should I buy Kindle DX?
14:06	nDuff	I'm reasonably happy with mine, and its PDF reader is great for Manning's MEAPs (ie. Joy of Clojure). The only complaint I have is lack of ePub support; if you want to have the most available choice in terms of from whom you buy your ebooks, that's a showstopper.
14:14	AWizzArd	Little challenge here. I compiled a project into a folder build/ and when I do java -cp "build/;100-jars" my.namespace.server then it works fine. Then I put all .class and .clj files I have in build into a .jar file. I can still run it with -cp "my.jar;100-other-jars" my.namespace.server
14:15	cemerick	I don't think I have enough juice to do it, but I hope my tweet isn't what kicked those off. :-(
14:15	AWizzArd	But, when I now remove my.jar from the cp and do java -cp "100-jars" -jar my.jar then it tells me that it can not find my.namespace.server
14:15	AWizzArd	Any ideas? There is an entry in the Manifest.
14:15	hiredman	-jar and -cp cannot be used together
14:16	hiredman	java helpfully doesn't print an error messsage when you try to use both
14:18	AWizzArd	wow
14:20	AWizzArd	hiredman: so if I want to run it from a jar I better put everything I need inside that?
14:21	hiredman	you can specify a classpath in the jar's manifest somehow
14:22	hiredman	you can also use -cp and like you did at first
14:25	defn	is there a way to (import org.foo.*)
14:26	chouser	defn: no
14:36	AWizzArd	hiredman: okay, thanks for this tip. I would have continued forever to try to include more jars on the CP, while also specifying the -jar option. Now I build an überjar and that works fine. thumbs up
15:09	raek	i'm curious about this Aleph lib
15:09	raek	anyone here using it?
15:10	Licenser	not me sadly
15:11	cemerick	I'm afraid I don't grok what's so awesome about node.js, aleph, et al. :-/
15:13	Licenser	cemerick: I don't know aobut node.js, didn't found it that awsome but aleph is written in clojure :P
15:15	kotarak	... which is a huge selling point.
15:16	raek	so, what makes Aleph stand out? it is aynchronous?
15:17	raek	(respond!) ?
15:17	Licenser	raek: it's written in clojure
15:17	kotarak	clojurebot: written in clojure is a huge selling point
15:17	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
15:17	cemerick	raek: it's like node.js, but has a sane language and access to a huge set of libraries
15:17	Licenser	sorry I really don't know much about it, I like the idea of a lightwight multi thread webserver thingy for clojure apps since you can likely do nice things with it when it comes to sering many paralell reuqests
15:17	cemerick	I'm just not a web guy fundamentally. Eventing and such through port 80 today doesn't excite me like it did over any other random port when I was fiddling with sockets for the first time. But, have fun if it's your bag. :-)
15:18	Licenser	cemerick: perhaps you are? ^^
15:18	cemerick	gah!! :-P
15:19	cemerick	"Back in the late 90's, we used to wire up network services the good old fashioned way, sonny boy!" Oy.
15:20	hiredman	the old fashion way to wire things up is with wire
15:20	cemerick	token ring, fer shure.
15:20	raek	I've done a project in compojure 0.3.x previously and I'm thinking about looking into the alternatives that have emerged
15:20	kotarak	At least the metaphor was intacrt.
15:21	raek	I mean, there seems to be a lot of ring-like web servers: compojure, aleph, moustache, etc
15:21	raek	(please correct me if I'm missing anything)
15:22	chouser	compojure and moustache are built on top of ring
15:22	raek	ok, so ring is not only a spec for what the request and respond maps should look like?
15:22	kotarak	Are there alternatives to autodoc, which are easier to set up?
15:23	raek	is it the case that ring-based web frameworks are built on servlets and aleph not?
15:27	cemerick	The servlet 3.0 spec provides for eventing IIRC. Ring-based apps don't need to be deployed as servlets, but that's certainly the easiest path.
15:29	timcharper	Any counterclockwise users here?
15:31	timcharper	I'm trying to test it out on a project, but it seems that you can only import maven projects?
15:31	timcharper	We're using leiningen to manage dependencies, not maven
15:31	cemerick	only intellij has any support for lein AFAIK
15:33	timcharper	Why can't I just open an existing closure project? I don't understand why this is an impediment :-(
15:34	timcharper	^closure^Clojure
15:35	cemerick	timcharper: There's no such thing as a "clojure project", independent of the various development environments.
15:36	cemerick	You can try opening the project in question from the lein-generated pom. Last I knew, that generated pom wasn't sufficient for building the project in question though (only used for deploying to clojars?)
15:37	cemerick	Otherwise, ccw and enclojure are both good environments, and both eclipse and netbeans have good maven support.
15:46	timcharper	trying the lein generated pom wrote, thank you :-)
15:46	timcharper	route
15:49	jfields	is there anyway to do this? (update-in {:x [1 2 3 4]} [:x] -> last vector)
15:50	jfields	the best I could come up with was: (update-in {:x [1 2 3 4]} [:x] -> last vector)
15:50	jfields	but, I'd prefer to do it without an anonymous function if possible.
15:50	jfields	sorry user=> (update-in {:x [1 2 3 4]} [:x] #(-> % last vector))
15:50	jfields	{:x [4]}
15:50	jfields	is the best I could come up with.
15:51	kotarak	,(update-in {:x [1 2 3 4]} [:x] (comp vector peek))
15:51	clojurebot	{:x [4]}
15:52	jfields	cool, thanks
15:52	kotarak	jfields: although this is only marginally different to #(-> % peek vector)
15:53	jfields	kotarak, cool, thanks.
15:53	jfields	I prefer the comp solution. I was trying to use it without the parens, and my value was the fn returned by comp :)
16:02	hiredman	,((comp (partial apply update-in) reverse list) (comp vector peek) [:x] {:x [1 2 3 4]})
16:02	clojurebot	{:x [4]}
16:03	hiredman	,((comp (partial apply update-in (comp vector peek)) reverse list) [:x] {:x [1 2 3 4]})
16:03	clojurebot	java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: nth not supported on this type: PersistentArrayMap
16:03	hiredman	bleh
16:03	Chousuke	pointlessness strikes again
16:03	hiredman	,((partial (comp (partial apply update-in) reverse list) (comp vector peek)) [:x] {:x [1 2 3 4]})
16:03	clojurebot	{:x [4]}
16:04	cemerick	Chousuke: it actually saved me in a big way this morning. I think I've finally come to see the zen between point-free and #().
16:04	Chousuke	heh
16:05	Chousuke	if there's more than one comp or partial involved, I tend to use #() or fn.
16:43	TakeV	What is the purpose of the binding aspect in Conjure?
16:43	anars	does anyone know whether the clojure clr project is a "long term" project, or just a hobby project run by some loyal devs? :)
16:46	arkh	TakeV: it might be safe to say that it's usually for lexically scoped storage
16:46	TakeV	arkh: I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "lexically scoped storage".
16:48	arkh	TakeV: it's the ability to associate something with a symbol but only have that association exist within a "block" of code, or only as the arguments of a function
16:49	TakeV	So, not global storage then.
16:49	arkh	TakeV: clojure doesn't have 'variables' like an imperative language, so binding also helps keep things functional
16:49	arkh	TakeV: global storage is achieved with def
16:50	arkh	TakeV: when you want to bind something globally, use def. When you want to bind something locally, there are other ways one can and should perform the binding
16:50	TakeV	Like let?
16:50	arkh	TakeV: yes. Also loop, for, etc.
16:51	arkh	TakeV: let is a special form used by other macros like loop, for and others
16:52	TakeV	I think I'm a bit confused about how the Conjure system works. User input and requests are handled by the controller, which can affect the model and the view. So where does the binding part come in?
16:56	hiredman	binding aspect?
16:56	arkh	TakeV: the MVC model doesn't map to Clojure well (afaik ... I'm not a clojure expert). Think of what you want to do as a function. It'll take input and return the last form evaluated. A form is the smallest chunk of code that can be evaluated by clojure. Getting back to the 'function', bindings allow you to temporarily assign values to symbols or return them if it's the last form evaluated.
16:57	arkh	god I hope I didn't mangle that too poorly
16:57	hiredman	binding is some what overloaded so it helps to be specific, binding is what let does lexically, but confusingly clojure has a `binding` macro that does binding dynamically
16:57	hiredman	and conjure may have it's own thing that it calls "binding"
17:11	arkh	Is there a good way to bail out of execution early? Something like a System.exit(0) ? I'm running code from a .clj file and want to do this for testing purposes ... and I don't know how to add/remove comments en masse with my editor
17:12	arohner	arkh: you can always call System.exit directly
17:12	arohner	(System/exit 0)
17:13	rhudson	anars: As I understand it, the big push in Clojure 1.3 will be "Clojure-in-Clojure" -- rewriting a lot of the Java implementation in Clojure
17:13	rhudson	Until that's done, i suspect there won't be a lot of work on CLR or other target hosts
17:15	arkh	arohner: thank you
17:23	scode	What's an idiomatic way to get a BigInteger from a Ratio?
17:23	scode	bigIntegerValue in 1.2, but that's specific to Ratio I believe.
17:23	scode	I ended up writing a (to-bigint) that special-cased Ratio, which doesn't feel very nice.
17:24	chouser	,(bigint 5/3)
17:24	clojurebot	1
17:24	chouser	,(bigint 6/3)
17:24	clojurebot	2
17:24	chouser	like that?
17:24	scode	chouser: No, it gets truncated.
17:24	scode	Ah
17:25	scode	Sorry, not on master/1.2.
17:25	scode	But on 1.1
17:25	chouser	it appears to call .bigIntegerValue when it's a ratio
17:25	chouser	ah
17:25	scode	But bigint sounds nice; I'll chalk 1.1 behavior up to a bug. :)
17:25	scode	Thanks.
17:26	raek	is autopromotion still in use in 1.2?
17:26	scode	The fix seems to be committed as 8e916164ca3a57e5ce924ed153fe435356f8d4a0
17:28	scode	(and the bug was http://www.assembla.com/spaces/clojure/tickets/290)
17:31	Raynes	,(clojure-version)
17:31	clojurebot	"1.2.0-master-SNAPSHOT"
17:32	Raynes	-> (bigint 6/3)
17:32	sexpbot	=> 2
17:53	neotyk	clojurebot: seen zahardzhan
17:53	clojurebot	no, I have not seen zahardzhan
18:41	jacortinas	hello
18:41	jacortinas	quick question for anyone
18:42	jacortinas	if the reader macro "^" for metadata is deprecated
18:42	jacortinas	what's the syntax now for declaring metadata on a function using defn?
18:45	lozh	^ is the new syntax #^ was the old
18:45	raek	,(doc defn)
18:45	clojurebot	"([name doc-string? attr-map? [params] body] [name doc-string? attr-map? ([params] body) + attr-map?]); Same as (def name (fn [params* ] exprs)) or (def name (fn ([params ] exprs*)+)) with any doc-string or attrs added to the var metadata"
18:46	raek	you can also specify metadata with that attr-map
18:46	raek	(defn foo "Does neat stuff" {:some "metadata"} [x y] (+ x y))
18:47	raek	but as lozh said, you can still use ^ syntax
18:48	raek	(defn ^{:some "metadata"} foo ...
18:48	raek	the difference is that the former is evaluated during run-time and the latter during read-time
19:28	bortreb	could you guys help out a clojure newbie? I want to see if my code is idomitically correct and also if you think this function is even usefull http://gist.github.com/483772
19:29	bortreb	I'm thinking about calling it mix. it's for combining algorithms that have complicated and different fun-time properties
19:29	bortreb	it runs all the functions in separate threads, and then returns the "fastest" result
19:29	bortreb	s/fun-time/run-time
19:30	raek	:)
19:32	raek	I usually write (ns #^{:doc "docstring", :author "Author"} namespace ...) as (ns namespace "docstring" {:author "Author"} ...)
19:33	raek	(makes indentation more pretty)
19:33	bortreb	oh cool I didn't know that you could do that1
19:34	raek	futures are faster to create than threads since futures uses a thread-pool
19:35	raek	i.e. lesser start-up cost
19:35	bortreb	ah so my explicit thread version is rather niave then
19:36	bortreb	but it still seems so sad to use an entire therad to just check whether the atom has changed :(
19:37	raek	creating threads that way can still be useful
19:38	raek	is there any special reason you keep ::void in var?
19:40	bortreb	heh, no I could just put ::void directly in the atom
19:40	bortreb	for some reason I thought you couldn't do that which is silly
19:40	raek	one can also create sentinel objects with (Object.)
19:41	raek	(namespaced keywords are perfectly fine too)
19:44	bortreb	Aleph the game engine?
19:47	raek	nohttp://github.com/ztellman/aleph
19:47	raek	s/nohttp/http/
19:47	sexpbot	http://github.com/ztellman/aleph
19:48	raek	there seems to be a lot of software projects called aleph
19:48	lancepantz	does that come from somewhere?
19:48	raek	and also a programming language
19:48	raek	the name?
19:49	talios	Aleph looks cool.
19:50	Apage43	aleph is cool but i'm waiting for a more useful async client library.
19:50	raek	it's the first letter of the phoenician alphabet, the ancestor of the amaric, arabic, hebrew and greek alphabtes
19:50	bortreb	aleph is a name for the tansfinite cardinal numbers; that's all I've ever heard it used for
19:51	raek	aleph <-> alpha, beth <-> beta, gimel <-> gamma, etcs
19:51	lancepantz	hmm
19:51	bortreb	like aleph-one is a "bigger" infinity than all the natural numbers, for example
19:52	talios	Apage43: tried http://clojars.org/ahc-clj - built ontop of the ning async client library?
19:52	raek	I like the concept of "bigger" infinities...
19:52	talios	Apage43: http://github.com/neotyk/ahc-clj
19:56	bortreb	is there a way to remove jars you've uploaded to clojars that were mistakes or is this impossible?
19:57	lancepantz	bortreb: i don't think so, let me know if you figure that out
20:29	tomoj	can you refer to the generated class in an ns which uses gen-class?
20:30	tomoj	e.g. to construct an instance in -main
20:43	tomoj	oh, seems you can if you :name it
21:03	akhudek	hey everyone, I have a code pattern for which I think maybe monads would be the correct solution
21:03	akhudek	however, the solution is not obvious to me
21:03	akhudek	I put an example here http://pastebin.com/eTGPD6vw
21:04	akhudek	essentially, I want to carry forward a state in the first arguement and first return value
21:04	akhudek	and otherwise have it behave like a let
21:04	akhudek	is this a macro job or would some clever monad work?
21:18	mikem	akhudek: it almost looks like you could just use -> or ->> except you have two return values from the first two functions
21:19	akhudek	yeah, that's the problem, those need to behave as in a normal let since they are often used later down the chain
21:19	akhudek	I'm trying to figure out if some combination of state-m and state-t might do it
22:37	Raynes	That's weird. In Leiningen, when I do :dependencies [[org.clojure/clojure "[1.1.0,)"]], which should be an open-ended version range, it always tries to grab clojure-contrib-master-SNAPSHOT
22:38	talios	clojure-contrib? weird.
22:40	Raynes	I mean, org.clojure/clojure-contrib
22:40	Raynes	I'm doing 30 things at once. :p
22:42	talios	I guess for some reasons "master" evals to being newer than 1.1.0 - the master in their kinda sucks.
22:42	talios	its like a classifer for the classifier
22:42	talios	actualy, the classifier is after the version. hrm
22:43	Raynes	talios: I'd understand that if the -master-SNAPSHOT version actually existed, but apparently it doesn't.
22:43	Raynes	It's trying to grab something that doesn't exist, even though I didn't tell it to do so.
22:43	talios	I think it -used- to. I remember using -master sometime ago from one of the build boxes
22:43	talios	maybe its in your local repo
22:44	Raynes	If it is, wouldn't it succeed in grabbing it?
22:44	talios	it might be in the metadata, but no jar?
22:46	Raynes	I hate maven. ;(
22:46	talios	but maven is all goodness :)
22:46	talios	(that being said, we always feature maven-pain-of-the-week on the podcast) heh
22:47	Raynes	Luckily, it doesn't look like we need version ranges.
22:47	Raynes	If you use the normal "soft" version requirement, but the project that uses the library requires a different version of the same thing, that version is preferred.
22:47	Raynes	I just noticed that.
22:52	mmarczyk	Raynes: for some reason http://build.clojure.org/snapshots/org/clojure/clojure-contrib/maven-metadata.xml includes 1.2.0-master-SNAPSHOT
22:53	Raynes	mmarczyk: I still hate maven for being weird. :p
22:53	mmarczyk	a bug in the build box setup I guess...
22:53	mmarczyk	:-)
22:53	talios	that release USED to exist.
22:54	mmarczyk	talios: oh? never noticed
22:54	talios	Raynes: aww don't hate on the maven, clojure-maven-plugin is all goodness, apart from the XML bloatedness
22:54	cemerick	talios: how goes it, Mark? :-)
22:54	mmarczyk	anyway, since it's not available on the repo, it shouldn't be mentioned in the metadata
22:54	talios	hey cemerick - goes good.
22:54	Raynes	talios: I see you've thoroughly drunk cemerick's kool-aid.
22:55	cemerick	lol
22:55	cemerick	Raynes: talios is my dealer, no the other way 'round!
22:55	cemerick	;-)
22:55	Raynes	I only have taste buds for Leiningen.
22:55	Raynes	<3
22:56	cemerick	I'm just a zealot for tools that get the job done for me and are generally applicable. shrug
22:56	cemerick	talios: I was surprised to hear the gradle love on the last 'cast.
22:57	Raynes	I'm a zealot for tools that don't require I touch XML. :D
22:59	Raynes	Maybe once that polyglot maven crap is done baking. Maybe.
22:59	cemerick	Fair enough. If your requirements were different, you'd probably think otherwise. :-)
23:00	Raynes	Maybe, but they aren't.
23:00	cemerick	Same here; if I had simpler needs across the board, I'd probably be all over lein.
23:00	Raynes	I've never had to build anything in such a complex way that I had to use almighty xml. :p
23:00	Raynes	But I haven't really done much building either.
23:00	Raynes	All my projects look the same.
23:04	tomoj	talios: all goodness?
23:05	tomoj	ok, I guess I agree
23:08	Raynes	mmarczyk: Somebody might need to file a bug for that or something. It's pretty bad. You can't have an open-ended version range on contrib because of that. I'd do it, but I don't have a CA (or a printer, or anywhere to go to print it anytime soon) ._.
23:10	mmarczyk	Raynes: I'm thinking that perhaps lein shouldn't include build.clojure.org/snapshots in default-repos
23:10	talios	Raynes: polyglot maven hasn't really moved in a few months. all my clojure code was rewritten ( now leiningen compat I believe )
23:10	Raynes	mmarczyk: That would suck.
23:10	talios	tomoj: all goodness. all good. Apart from staff resigning prior to our uber new release, which hopefully will be out soon.
23:11	tomoj	hurray
23:11	mmarczyk	Raynes: but anyway, you're right about somebody needing to file a bug report -- care to do it? :-)
23:11	talios	then we can start on our git migration, and hack up the codebase again
23:11	Raynes	I wasn't sure if one could file an issue without being a contributor.
23:11	Raynes	I need to do this on the assembla page, right?
23:12	tomoj	you have to have a CA to work on leiningen?
23:12	mmarczyk	you don't need a CA to create a ticket on Assembla
23:12	mmarczyk	but I'd just send this to the ggroup
23:12	Raynes	tomoj: This isn't a Leiningen bug.
23:12	Raynes	mmarczyk: Alright.
23:12	Raynes	mmarczyk: Which one?
23:12	tomoj	oh, I see
23:12	mmarczyk	Clojure
23:12	mmarczyk	speaking of CAs, mine seems to be stuck... somewhere since about a month :-(
23:13	talios	isn't not even a "clojure" bug - but a build server/admin issue
23:13	Raynes	mmarczyk: At least you had a chance to sign one. :p
23:13	Raynes	So, how about that Haskell thread in the group.
23:14	Raynes	For a moment, I thought I was in comp.lang.lisp
23:15	cemerick	Not a bright spot. :-(
23:15	mmarczyk	Raynes: not sure if you can sign a contract yet, you mean...?
23:16	Raynes	mmarczyk: No. I don't own a printer, and I live in the middle of nowhere.
23:16	Raynes	:p
23:16	Raynes	I can't even print a CA right now, much less sign it. ;p
23:16	mmarczyk	Raynes: oh... want a couple of blank copies then? :-)
23:16	Raynes	Indeed.
23:17	mmarczyk	if you drop me an e-mail with an address, I'll mail you some :-)
23:17	mmarczyk	I'd find it hilarious to do that
23:18	mmarczyk	seeing as it's halfway around the world :-)
23:18	Raynes	That would be awesome.
23:18	Raynes	How much would that cost you? :o
23:19	Lajla	mmarczyk, I would disagree by the way.
23:19	Lajla	About your idea of vectors.
23:19	Raynes	mmarczyk: Toss me an email address to send it to, when you get a chance.
23:19	Lajla	[(+ 1 2) (+ 1 3)] is what it is.
23:19	Lajla	A vector containing two lists.
23:20	Lajla	But aparently the evaluation of a vector as datum in clojure produces a vector of its evaluated members.
23:20	mmarczyk	Raynes: I don't remember the exact amount from the time I sent in the CA myself, but I'm pretty sure it didn't exceed the cost of a latte ;-)
23:21	Raynes	I wish I had a latte. :<
23:21	Raynes	Send me one of those too.
23:21	mmarczyk	:-)
23:22	Lajla	mmarczyk, you cannot ignore me, I have your legs.
23:23	mefesto	Lajla: if you want an unevaluated vector, use a quote
23:23	Lajla	mefesto, that is not of which I spoke.
23:23	mefesto	,'[(+ 1 2) (+ 1 3)]
23:23	clojurebot	[(+ 1 2) (+ 1 3)]
23:23	mmarczyk	Raynes: hopefully I've just sent you a message with an e-mail address :-)
23:23	Lajla	I mean, mmarczyk said that the [ x ...] notation repraesented a different thing than the ( x ... ) analogue
23:24	Raynes	mmarczyk: Indeed.
23:24	Lajla	mefesto, I have crossed oceans of time to be with you.
23:25	Lajla	"You already admitted to loving Titanic, which makes you a brave man secure in your heterosexuality, but calls into question your overall cinematic credentials."