#clojure – 2010-06-23

2010-06-23

00:00	dnolen_	so yay, nay? no one using clj-apache-http ?
00:12	gstamp_	is the macroexpand feature in swank-clojure not working for anyone else? When I try and expand a macro I just get the name of the macro back rather than the expansion
00:17	tomoj	gstamp_: where's point when you do it
00:18	gstamp_	on the macro name itself
00:19	tomoj	put it on the opening paren
00:20	gstamp_	great. thank you, that works
00:20	tomoj	I thought it used to clean it up a bit, but mine doesn't anymore
00:32	dnolen_	tomoj: I patched it, you need to use swank-clojure from HeAD
00:33	tomoj	cool
00:33	tomoj	was that a regression or was it my imagination?
00:33	dnolen_	tomoj: things broke because of clojure 1.2.0 work
00:34	tomoj	ah
00:43	tomoj	dnolen_: very nice, thanks :)
00:43	dnolen_	tomoj: np
00:43	tomoj	for is such a monster
00:43	tomoj	47 lines for (for [x (range 10)] x)...
00:45	dnolen_	Clojure is like the most awesome Object Oriented language evar
01:21	defn	tomoj: did you look at the challenge problem
01:24	tomoj	yep
01:24	tomoj	haven't thought much about it, though
01:30	defn	help me solve it :)
01:39	tomoj	depth-first search can't be right, I guess
01:46	defn	actually i think that will work
01:48	tomoj	but it will be too slow, won't it? :(
01:52	defn	yeah :(
01:52	defn	I think using symmetry can help
01:53	defn	you could do depth first but discard bad paths early in the search
01:54	defn	detecting when a path splits the grid into two unconnected pieces could be helpful maybe???
03:02	Licenser	hmm the agent pool thingy is really hurting clojures performance :(
03:36	Bahman	Hi all!
03:37	Bahman	I am new to Clojure and just learning it.
03:38	Bahman	I am Bahman from Iran.
03:39	Bahman	BTW, what's the difference between "remove" and "drop-while"? I can't find out how they differ.
03:39	Licenser	Greetings Bahman :) it is a good decision to learn Clojure, it's a wonderful language!
03:40	tomoj	,(drop-while even? [2 4 6 1 3 7 8 10])
03:40	tomoj	$(drop-while even? [2 4 6 1 3 7 8 10])
03:40	sexpbot	=> (1 3 7 8 10)
03:40	tomoj	$(remove even? [2 4 6 1 3 7 8 10])
03:40	sexpbot	=> (1 3 7)
03:40	Licenser	$(drop-while odd? [1 3 2 1 4])
03:40	sexpbot	=> (2 1 4)
03:40	Licenser	oh darn you tomoj ;P I was about to give the exact same esaple just with odd
03:40	tomoj	sorry :(
03:41	Bahman	Yes Licenser...I've always liked to learn Lisp but the problem was that as I'm a Java developer I'm used to read-to-use high-level components like Workflow engines which Lisp lacked.
03:41	Bahman	Fortunately Clojure doesn't have this problem.
03:41	Licenser	nods You'll also find the comunity qite friendly :)
03:42	Bahman	Licenser: Yes..it seems so :-)
03:43	Bahman	tomoj: 8 is even...why it's not dropped?
03:43	Licenser	Bahman: drop while drops the first elements as long as the condition is true
03:43	Licenser	remove removes all elements for that the condition is true
03:44	Licenser	so drop-while stops as soon as it finds a element that does not match the condition
03:44	Bahman	Licenser: I see the point. Thanks.
03:44	Licenser	:)
03:44	Licenser	welcome
03:45	Bahman	So, is it alright to ask here such silly questions if I'm stuck? :-D
03:46	Bahman	Or should I use the forums (if any)?
03:46	Licenser	Of cause it is, most of us started like that :P
03:47	Bahman	Good for me :-D
04:13	Kjellski	How would you do this idiomatically? I want to parse a file with "newline" separated textblocks. I want to group these blocks, which are themselves csv. I´ve already slurped the data in and parsed it with
04:14	Kjellski	clojure-csv. Now I´ve got the vector over vectors, wich I want to separate with the elements [""] in there..
04:14	Kjellski	Any ideas?
04:14	Licenser	I'd make do (re-seq #"[^\n]" data)
04:14	Kjellski	On the file?
04:14	Licenser	ah okay you areldy have something
04:15	Kjellski	Okay, and after that use parse-csv?
04:15	Licenser	well won't clojure-csv not already do that for you?
04:15	Licenser	never used the cloure-csv lib
04:15	Kjellski	Yes, but it´s a vector over vectors, which I want to group elements from...
04:16	AWizzArd	,(doc group-by)
04:16	Licenser	a vector of vectors, I guess it are vectors of fields in vectors of lines right?
04:17	AWizzArd	Okay, clojurebot is offline. But maybe clojure.contrib.seq/group-by
04:17	Kjellski	AWizzArd: Thanks, I´ll have a look at that... ;)
04:17	Licenser	$(doc group-by)
04:17	sexpbot	=> ------------------------- clojure.core/group-by ([f coll]) Returns a map of the elements of coll keyed by the result of f on each element. The value at each key will be a vector of the correspon... http://gist.github.com/449631
04:17	Kjellski	Licenser: thanks, I´ll have a try....
04:18	Licenser	hmm I apearently suck at making clojure code fast .P
04:19	spariev	Licenser: you should write some ruby - it'll help you to stop worrying about clojure speed :)
04:19	Licenser	spariev: :P
04:25	Licenser	actually it's not slow it's an infinit loop
04:34	Licenser	hmm what was the function to divide two integers?
04:34	Licenser	rem was the reminder but I never can remember the name of the other one :(
04:35	spariev	$(doc quot)
04:35	sexpbot	=> ------------------------- clojure.core/quot ([num div]) quot[ient] of dividing numerator by denominator. nil
04:36	Licenser	Thank you!
05:06	Licenser	Hmm I just tried to implement a few benchmarks in clojure and I noticed that it's beauty quicky gets burried under a heap of performance measures :(
05:11	eevar2	Licenser: profiling overhead?
05:11	Licenser	eevar2: no what I mean is when you want to get close to java'ish speed you've to do tons of ugly things
05:11	Licenser	and it still isn't exactly fast :P
05:12	eevar2	ah. missed "beauty" in that sentence
05:12	Licenser	clojure is great because solutions look clean and nice in it, are easy to read and understand
05:12	Licenser	if you want to get it fast this gets lost and you write java with parens in different places (at least that is what it feels like to me right now)
05:13	Fossi	well, most "benchmarks" are actually pretty screwed anyway
05:13	eevar2	if you stick to the same algorithms, i.e. using loops instead of creating lists and so on, performance isn't all that different?
05:13	Fossi	well i guess that counts as "ugly things"
05:13	eevar2	might not be quite as idiomatic, but
05:14	Licenser	eevar2: yes it does kind of
05:14	Licenser	because you can't really use any of the build in functions since they are slow
05:14	Licenser	well not slow slow but compared to pure javaish code they are slow
05:15	Licenser	my first atempt was quite nice looking short and well slow
05:16	Licenser	now it gets slowly more and more ugly as it gets faster and faster
05:18	tomoj	Licenser: you have a java version written?
05:18	Licenser	I know where one is but I haven't written it myself
05:21	tomoj	are you planning to blog this attempt?
05:21	Licenser	tomoj: yes as sonn as I'm happy with it but I'm not :P
05:21	tomoj	using prim?
05:21	tomoj	dunno how much that would help
05:21	Licenser	http://gist.github.com/449687 if you want to look
05:21	Licenser	tomoj: yes using prim
05:22	Licenser	I want to see how much worth the changes are
05:22	tomoj	the lisp code in that paper is horrifyingly ugly
05:23	AWizzArd	In what way?
05:23	Licenser	as in if you really benefit from it when writing fast code
05:23	Licenser	and while being nearly convinced that the tradeoff is worth it, I slwoy think again it isn't since you anway have to make it ugly if you want it fast
05:24	bobo_	why is ugly code always faster then pretty code? in all languages, feels so wrong
05:24	Licenser	bobo_: I agree :I(
05:24	Licenser	but I think it isn't in assembly
05:24	Bahman	Licenser: Look at the C code: SMALL k2=(k+1)>>1 ...it's somewhat a cheating :-) You can only do such things in C or Assembly.
05:25	bobo_	assambly is always ugly
05:25	eevar2	Licenser: _are_ you profiling btw, or just fumbling around blind? ;)
05:25	Licenser	eevar2: I know what is slow, I managed to reduce the overhead to nearly 0 in my algorithm
05:25	Licenser	now the only thing that is slow is the permutations
05:26	Licenser	at least that is what I think
05:26	Licenser	but I'm not using a profiler as they always make me itchy
05:26	Licenser	I do profile by hand so (as in removing bits of code to see the impact)
05:27	Licenser	to make this fast I need to implement the permutations myself on a static mutating cry array
05:27	Licenser	as I did with the reversing part
05:27	hoeck	Licenser: and did you measure the differences of a relatively beautiful fannkuch benchmark in prim and normal clojure?
05:27	Licenser	hoeck: I admit no
05:27	Licenser	but I should do that
05:28	hoeck	because that would be really interesting to see
05:29	Licenser	true
05:32	hoeck	Licenser: do you have a nice looking but easily understandable and probably slow version of the fannkuch benchmark?
05:32	Licenser	hoeck: yes give me one second to make sure it is correct :P
05:33	hoeck	great :)
05:35	Licenser	it is still testing :P
05:36	Licenser	I got the source for scala from http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/program.php?test=fannkuchredux&lang=scala&id=1 too
05:36	Licenser	for this clojure sadly is 10 times slower :(
05:36	Licenser	in the optimized version that is
05:36	Licenser	and 60 times lower in the nice one
05:37	Licenser	http://gist.github.com/449701 the nice code
05:37	Licenser	I find this pretty ideomatic at least
05:37	bartj	hi all
05:38	hoeck	Licenser: thanks
05:38	Licenser	welcome hoeck I might push the entire thing to github too
05:38	Licenser	perhaps others are better then me at making things fast <tm>
06:08	Licenser	hoeck: http://gist.github.com/449731
06:08	Licenser	test results
06:08	bartj	I am not able to appreciate the value of partial
06:08	Licenser	it is only partially useful bartj
06:15	hoeck	Licenser: are you measuring the whole jvm execution time?
06:15	Licenser	hoeck: yes
06:16	hoeck	why?
06:16	Licenser	I know it is not exact
06:16	hoeck	no warmup etc etc?
06:16	Licenser	becase it should be the same for every compliation
06:16	Licenser	the multiplyer should not change
06:16	Licenser	just an index
06:16	Licenser	or rather a static value
06:17	Licenser	I will push my setup shortly
06:18	hoeck	but you are currently measuring jvm and clojure startup performance, not really the pfannkuchen
06:21	Licenser	hoeck: well for the small numbers yes, but usually I take bigger ones
06:21	Licenser	where you see something like a few secs difference
06:21	Licenser	or a magnitude of difference
06:22	spariev	Licenser: have you considered using Criterium http://hugoduncan.org/post/2010/benchmarking_clojure_code_with_criterium.xhtml for benchmarking ?
06:22	Licenser	looks at that
06:22	spariev	also, LauJensen has nice post on proper benchmarking AFAIK
06:22	Chousuke	including the jvm startup time and not doing any warmup will not make clojure look good at all :P
06:23	Licenser	spariev: since I want to not only benchmark clojure that isn't too helpful
06:23	Chousuke	it also won't be realistic
06:23	Licenser	actually if 1.1 takes twice as long as 1.2 (for example) that is a quite useful information unels 1.1 starts twice as slow as 1.2
06:26	Chousuke	in those results you posted the actual execution time seems to be obscured by the startup.
06:26	Chousuke	It's difficult to tell how well it's actually performing
06:26	Licenser	Chousuke: yes I know that was just to show how it looks I'll post new ones that might be more interesting
06:26	Licenser	since they are longer runing
06:26	Licenser	but yes I know the benchmarks are falwed, as all benchmarks are, I know in what direction they are flawed so I hopefully won't go to draw bad conclusions from it
06:27	hoeck	Licenser: I'm using criterium too to do the fannkuch
06:27	hoeck	Licenser: which branch is the one you use
06:27	Licenser	I use 1.2 master and 1.2 equal
06:28	Licenser	I will github push the whoel setup in about 2 minutes (then this run should be through)
06:28	hoeck	Licenser: I mean, I'm looking for the one with magical loops and primitive ops as the default
06:28	Licenser	yes I push the exact .jars I use
06:28	Licenser	unless that is prohibited and rhicky will sue me for it :(
06:28	Chousuke	of course it's not prohibited :P
06:28	Licenser	:P
06:29	Chousuke	unless you've done modifications, of course
06:29	Licenser	http://gist.github.com/449748
06:29	Licenser	here results now I push
06:29	Licenser	I compiled them
06:32	Chousuke	the difference with scala shouldn't be that big, considering you should be able to get jvm-native speeds from numerical calculations now.
06:33	Licenser	Chousuke: I agree but from the code I have it sadly is
06:33	Licenser	pushing right now but with all the jars in there it take a moment
06:34	Licenser	but the difference beteen master and equal is scarry for idomatic clojure code
06:34	Licenser	it seems the equal branch is slower right now
06:34	Licenser	at least for this kind of code
06:35	Licenser	20s difference isn't startup time either
06:35	Licenser	I wonder what causes this
06:41	Chousuke	did you remember to use ^:static and type hint as necessary?
06:41	eevar2	never ever profile your benchmarks
06:42	eevar2	i hear you can go blind
06:42	defn	lol
06:44	bartj	is there a better way to remove empty strings in a sequence than:
06:45	bartj	, (remove #(= "" (.trim %)) [" " "abc" "" "x"])
06:45	bartj	,(remove #(= "" (.trim %)) [" " "abc" "" "x"])
06:48	spariev	bartj: there is also blank? function in c.c.str-utils2/string , which you can use - (remove blank? [" " "abc" "" "x"])
06:49	Licenser	eevar2: you know even I, and I know that might seem as a shock, can only do one thing at a time :P
06:49	Licenser	http://github.com/Licenser/clj-shootout have fun
06:50	Licenser	but Chousuke the point was to see how basic code works compared in main and equal
06:50	hoeck	Licenser: got a clojure build from may competing against equals, old code does (fannkuch 7) in 190ms, equals in 240
06:51	bartj	spariev: cool, thanks
06:51	spariev	np
06:51	Licenser	hoeck: what? o.O
06:51	hoeck	Licenser: so we basically made the same observation, that equals is a bit slower on the idiomatic code
06:52	Licenser	wall 190 vs 240 isn't a bit sadly :( that is about 20%
06:52	hoeck	right :/
06:53	Licenser	now the task is to find WHAT makes it slower eevar2 and now I'm going to profile
06:53	Chousuke	Licenser: that doesn't look like very fast code at all.
06:54	Licenser	Chousuke: I know it is ideomatic code, the nicest way I could come up to write this algorithm
06:54	Chousuke	and there's next to nothing that would get a benefit from the equals branch
06:56	Licenser	Chousuke: I know but oddly enough it is not too far away from what much clojure code deos: reorganizing lists and gathering data above them
06:56	Chousuke	Licenser: I think the main problem in the function version is that you're using concat a lot
06:56	Chousuke	that'll create one really lazy seq
06:57	Chousuke	My first guess would be that the overhead of laziness is killing performance :/
06:58	Licenser	Chousuke: but it never gets realized fully
06:58	Chousuke	Licenser: that's the problem
06:58	Chousuke	Licenser: it creates a whole bunch of thunks :P
06:58	Licenser	only the first argument but I'll see once I toss on the horror profiler
07:00	Chousuke	you'll have one lazy seq, take one item from it, then make a lazy seq over the rest of it, repeating, until you have a lazy seq times a dozen :P
07:01	Licenser	actually 38 lazy seqs deep
07:03	Licenser	now I've to remember how I get this silly profiler to actually profile stuff :P
07:04	Licenser	there was some trick to put the the starting class but I don't remember o.O
07:07	Licenser	ah I fear I know what it was :( it was meh
07:10	Bootvis	what is the recommended way to store 2-dimensional data persistently?
07:11	Licenser	it seems reverse costs the most
07:14	Licenser	depends on your access method
07:14	Licenser	if it is 2 dimensional in sense of k/v then a hashmal if it is 2 dimensional in the sense of a matrix then a vector of vectors
07:15	Bootvis	thanks
07:16	Licenser	oddly enough both reverse and nthnext (both core functions) have gotten slower o.O
07:32	Licenser	this is very odd
07:42	Bahman	A question: I'm reading "Practical Closure" and I came across this sentence: "When writing idiomatic Clojure, one cannot use sequences too much."
07:43	Bahman	Is it correct? I think it should be "...once cannot avoid...".
07:46	Bahman	Just to clear things: I thought Clojure is about sequences but this sentence seems the have the opposite meaning.
07:47	cemerick	Bahman: It's an odd sentence in any case.
07:47	cemerick	Sequences are core to idiomatic clojure.
07:47	Licenser	seqs are usually your friends
07:49	spariev	bahman: maybe you should submit this error at the apress site - http://apress.com/book/errata/1312 , oddly (as compared to manning) there is no forum for this kind of stuff
07:49	Bahman	Good to know that...So it's just a typo.
07:49	Bahman	Thanks everyone.
07:50	Bahman	Will do spariev.
07:53	Licenser	it seels Chousuke is right lazy seq, for some reason is slower
07:55	Chousuke	I think the sentence makes perfect sense.
07:55	Chousuke	Saying you can't use sequences too much means no matter how much you use them, it's not excessive
07:55	ttmrichter	Wait a second: there's a SECOND book on Clojure out? Cool!
07:56	Chousuke	Bahman: ^^
07:56	rfg	Bahman: I don't think it's a typo, just one of these sentences that doesn't sound right unless you are a native speaker.
07:56	cemerick	Chousuke: of course, you can use sequences too much, if they're not appropriate for a given problem. :-)
07:56	Licenser	actually it seems you can use them too much :P
07:56	Chousuke	cemerick: well, yeah. :P
07:57	Bahman	Oh!
07:57	cemerick	It's definitely an odd thing to say.
07:57	Chousuke	cemerick: but a little hyperbole never hurt anyone. much.
07:57	Bahman	You're just 30 seconds late rfg :-)
07:58	cemerick	Chousuke: and here I was going to reimpl stuff to use alist seqs instead of maps! :-P
07:58	rfg	That's because I'm typing on my phone :)
07:58	Licenser	so here is the odd thing: running the fannkuchen2 code with doall around the concat makes equal faster, doing it without the concat makes master faster
07:58	Chousuke	cemerick: but maps become alists when you call seq on them!
07:58	Bahman	So the sentence is analogous to "priceless"...whatever the "price" it is not enough...no matter how much seqs are used, it's not enough. Right?
07:59	Chousuke	Bahman: it's not excessive
07:59	Bahman	Chousuke: Got your point.
08:00	cemerick	Chousuke: right! Clearly, alists (and therefore seqs) are superior to maps! ;-)
08:02	AWizzArd	cemerick: alists as in CLs alists?
08:03	Licenser	aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh lists?
08:03	cemerick	AWizzArd: yeah, don't worry about it, I'm being sarcastic/snarky.
08:07	cemerick	mmm, juicy NoSuchFieldError when AOT-compiling
08:09	rhickey	cemerick: I've got half a cup down, shoot
08:09	cemerick	rhickey: NoSuchFieldError during AOT: https://gist.github.com/d8ba04dd0613cb7e11ba
08:11	Bahman	Well, clojure.org seems to be banning access from Inside Iran :-(
08:12	rhickey	cemerick: have you got top-level calls?
08:12	Chousuke	Bahman: wouldn't it be the other way around :/
08:13	cemerick	rhickey: No....but, in which direction are you after?
08:13	Bahman	I don't know...I doubt even those censor-men know about Clojure :-S
08:13	Chousuke	Bahman: ie. Iran would ban clojure.org (Though I have no idea why), not vice versa :P
08:13	cemerick	rhickey: The reference to the java class is in a fn; the static init in the class is there to support later RT.var lookups (both static and in method bodies).
08:14	rhickey	cemerick: which version of Clojure?
08:15	Bahman	Chousuke: Maybe...thinking how to find out...
08:15	ttmrichter	Bahman, I'll show you how to work around your censors if you want to talk in private.
08:15	Bahman	ttmrichter: Will appre
08:15	Bahman	I appreciate that :-)
08:15	ttmrichter	(For reference I'm in China and have censorship problems too. ;)
08:16	Chousuke	why would clojure.org get blocked? :P
08:16	cemerick	rhickey: latest snapshot AFAIK: 1.2.0-master-20100607.150309-85
08:16	Chousuke	maybe because it's hosted on wikispaces?
08:16	ttmrichter	Chousuke: They may share an IP block with something the Iranian government doesn' tlike.
08:18	rhickey	great, going to ggroup starts infinite loop - google fail
08:20	cemerick	I heard that yesterday too -- which browsers are afflicted? FF does just fine. shrug
08:20	hoeck	strange, had the same problem a week ago, couldn't even login to gmail, deleting all my google related cookies helped though
08:21	rhickey	nuked cookies, works
08:22	rhickey	cemerick: target/classes is clear when you start this AOT?
08:23	cemerick	rhickey: yeah -- I've triple-checked that at this point
08:23	cemerick	I can bounce back and forth between success and failure reliably by commenting out the RT.load
08:24	rhickey	cemerick: have you got a circularity in your static inits?
08:25	cemerick	rhickey: not that I'm aware of, though wouldn't that cause an error of some kind?
08:26	cemerick	FWIW, this code is unchanged since the last time it was built ~Feb
08:27	Chousuke	git bisect? :)
08:27	rhickey	the error is really bogus, as every reference to a var callsite is made from within the same class
08:27	cemerick	Chousuke: If I must. I'm not thrilled about the prospect of bisecting ~5 months of clojure commits.
08:28	Associat0r	does Clojure allow unboxed user-defined value tyes (structs) on the CLR?
08:29	Chousuke	cemerick: well, it's a binary search so it won't take that long :)
08:29	cemerick	rhickey: My random initial thought was that the RT.load call isn't setting things up properly for the compiler -- so docviewer__init gets generated, but without certain vars that are only conditionally emitted?
08:30	cemerick	my understanding of the compiler is quite out of date, pre-reify
08:32	rhickey	cemerick: yes, you could not have the callsites flag set, but that would disable both the callsite field generation and the references to it, i.e. as if you didn't have callsites
08:32	cemerick	right
08:33	Associat0r	rhickey: does Clojure allow unboxed user-defined value tyes (structs) on the CLR?
08:33	cemerick	rhickey: so, binding compile-path = null before the RT.load in the java class (with a pop after) leads to a successful compile.
08:34	cemerick	rhickey: The RT.load generates classes missing the callsites, and then the "normal" load sees classfiles already, and just invokes the __init.load(), assuming callsites are already there?
08:35	rhickey	cemerick: you are getting two different versions of the classes
08:44	rhickey	cemerick: it used to be that during AOT the compiler loaded the classes from disk, now doesn't to support dynamic classes and interfaces
08:44	AWizzArd	When I AOTed a defrecord, will then (.getClassLoader MyRec) ==> #<AppClassLoader sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader@1ba34f2> while a non-AOTed record will yield something such as #<DynamicClassLoader clojure.lang.DynamicClassLoader@13c7b52>?
08:45	cemerick	rhickey: then perhaps RT.load should suppress AOT using the same binding I just used?
08:45	AWizzArd	Could that be a way to build a reliable record? fn?
08:46	rhickey	cemerick: that's how explicitly loaded files get compiled
08:47	cemerick	so it is
08:51	cemerick	rhickey: RT.load has always been a bit hacky; perhaps a method specifically suited for runtime loading of namespaces from Java is warranted, which would then set things up so as to not trip up AOT.
08:51	cemerick	probably just an invocation of require, actually
08:52	rhickey	cemerick: who said you could call RT.load?
08:52	rhickey	you can invoke require
08:52	cemerick	rhickey: heh, no one! :-P
08:53	cemerick	But, tons of people do, because one often needs to load code from Java. A proper support route for that seems reasonable.
08:53	rhickey	cemerick: require
08:53	cemerick	supported*
08:53	rhickey	RT.var("clojure.core/require").invoke(...)
08:54	cemerick	rhickey: right as I said before -- but help out the poor java folk, and give them something with a signature like RT.require(String).
08:54	rhickey	cemerick: the general recipe is - get the var you would use to do the same job from Clojure and invoke it
08:54	AWizzArd	We need a better Java API (:
08:55	rhickey	cemerick: when does that stop?
08:55	cemerick	rhickey: at some point, but after zero. :-)
08:55	rhickey	cemerick: try the latest (disables direct binding, as it is doomed)
08:56	cemerick	rhickey: will do
08:57	cemerick	rhickey: Some supported host API is still needed though. At least enough to load namespaces and call fns in a java-idiomatic way.
08:57	AWizzArd	rhickey: Do you have plans to to provide a record? and/or deftype? function?
08:58	rhickey	AWizzArd: maybe
08:58	AWizzArd	Would be very helpful for my Serialization lib.
08:59	AWizzArd	Currently I check (parents MyRec) to estimate if something has good chances to be a record
09:02	chouser	if it's just a matter of a tool to view, create, and delete rules for you, perhaps it could be done outside gmail and then use http calls to make it happen inside
09:04	cemerick	contrib failures @ http://build.clojure.org/ just now
09:05	cemerick	not sure who turn the batlight on for these day
09:05	cemerick	days
09:05	cemerick	whoa, wonky hudson error
09:09	rhickey	cemerick: stuart halloway is on that
09:20	AWizzArd	Maybe if Clojure managed internally a Set of all defrecords/deftypes, then such a lookup could be done easily, without adding empty interfaces and such.
09:22	mattrepl	can anyone think of a reason why I'd be getting a Var unbound exception from within a deftest? The Var is defined in a "project.core" namespace and the test is defined in a "project.core-test" namespace which references "project.core" via a use expression in it's own namespace def "(ns project.core-test (:use [project.core] :reload-all).....)"
09:23	mattrepl	I'm using master branch, did the most recent pull yesterday.
09:24	rhickey	AWizzArd: a marker interface is far superior to a registry
09:24	AWizzArd	mattrepl: did you just do (def xyz) and then try to access it, without intializing it with a value?
09:24	AWizzArd	rhickey: ah okay, didn't know that
09:24	mattrepl	AWizzArd: in this case the Var is a function that was defined with defn
09:25	AWizzArd	Just thought that such a marker interface could be used by any class, even if those are not Records.
09:26	mattrepl	I get similar behavior from the "user" ns in SLIME, strangely it works only if I run slime-compile-defun before attempting to dereference the Var
09:27	mattrepl	I say "strangely" because I didn't have this problem before using a similar project setup
09:29	mattrepl	or rather, "the Var is bounded to a function that was defined with defn"
09:30	mattrepl	I have an idea of what would be broken, but I'm not sure why others wouldn't have already reported it... diving in...
09:30	mmarczyk	rhickey: about the ggroup infinite loop, deleting all googlegroups.com cookies fixed it for me
09:31	rhickey	mmarczyk: yes, me too
09:31	mmarczyk	rhickey: perhaps there were some groups.google.com cookies too... not sure
09:31	mmarczyk	ah, ok then :-)
09:31	rhickey	cemerick: any word on latest and your problem?
09:32	cemerick	rhickey: sorry, got caught by a call; another 15m anyway
09:43	mmarczyk	hm, I've got a (defprotocol ToSQL (to-sql [self])) in one namespace, then a (defrecord InfixOperator [op-name] ToSQL (to-sql [self] op-name)) in another; the latter generates a reflection warning -- "call to contains can't be resolved"; any idea why?
09:43	rsh	how do you remove a macro defined in a ns?
09:44	Chousuke	rsh: ns-unmap
09:45	rsh	thanks
09:45	mmarczyk	rsh: as you would with a function; nb. this won't have any effect on code using this macro and compiled when it was in place
09:49	mmarczyk	rhickey: in core_deftype.clj, line 215, shouldn't there be a type hint on v#?
10:03	alexyk	how do I make a stand-alone executable? uber-jar?
10:03	spariev	yes, lein uberjar will do
10:22	mattrepl	sigh misplaced parens around a series of defns. no compile error, but resulted in Var being interned but no function bounded
10:24	chouser	mattrepl: just yesterday systray had that very same error message with the very same cause
10:26	mattrepl	chouser: sounds like something worth fixing, maybe a compiler warning for nested defs?
10:27	chouser	just added it to my lint tool todo list
10:32	mattrepl	is it a conscious decision to put items like that in a lint tool instead of in the compiler? is there a plan to integrate a lint tool with the compiler?
10:33	chouser	I don't know.
10:33	chouser	Compiler errors are great, but warnings are a pain. We use a warning because we're not sure it's an error...
10:34	chouser	if we're not sure it's an error, that means someone might want to keep the warned code, which means they rightfully would want a way to turn it off
10:35	chouser	but you don't want a lib that turns it off to also turn it off in the lib-user's code, so how do you control the warning? at what granularity?
10:36	mattrepl	namespace?
10:36	chouser	if a flexible system is provided to let you turn on/off warnings per ns, file, function, etc. do we really want all that complexity bundled into the compiler?
10:37	chouser	perhaps if a lint tool can demonstrate sufficient value, simplicity, and flexibility, parts of it could be included in the compiler. or perhaps that would simply demonstrate it works fine standalone.
10:37	mattrepl	could be namespace metadata, the lint tool looks for it, and the compiler could optionally call lint
10:37	chouser	hm, that's an interesting idea
10:39	cemerick	rhickey: clean builds now, thank you :-)
10:39	cemerick	I suppose I'll go eliminate the RT.load usages in any case.
10:41	cemerick	I reserve the balance of my Java API griping time though. ;-)
10:41	chouser	heh, I like it. Senate rules.
10:48	AWizzArd	Is there a better way to produce all non-nil elements of a seq other than (take-while identity (iterate f coll)) or (take-while identity (repeatedly f))?
10:48	cemerick	chouser: same in the House. I'm cameralism-agnostic.
10:48	arohner	AWizzArd: (remove nil? seq)
10:49	AWizzArd	,(last (take-while identity (iterate #(.getComponentType %) (class (make-array String 2 2 2 2)))))
10:49	AWizzArd	$(last (take-while identity (iterate #(.getComponentType %) (class (make-array String 2 2 2 2)))))
10:49	sexpbot	java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: clojure/core$iterate$fn__3752
10:50	AWizzArd	anyway, remove nil? is not the way, as this wouldn't produce the seq itself
10:50	chouser	I yield the remainder of my cameralism time to the gentleman from Massachusetts
10:50	cemerick	Man, one step towards a legislative process, and we're already getting less done!
10:50	AWizzArd	A version of iterate and/or repeatedly that stops when a specific result was found.
10:51	AWizzArd	(repeat-until nil? f) and (iterate-until nil? f coll) so to say
10:52	chouser	$(take-while identity (iterate #(and % (.getComponentType %)) (class (make-array String 2 2 2 2))))
10:52	sexpbot	java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: clojure/core$iterate$fn__3752
10:52	chouser	the bots are all broken?
10:52	AWizzArd	seems so
10:53	AWizzArd	Not online or broken :p
10:53	AWizzArd	The above code I pasted works in my Clojure.
10:55	AWizzArd	Is there a Superclass for all Arrays?
10:55	chouser	Object
10:55	chouser	:-)
10:55	AWizzArd	Other than Obj...
10:57	AWizzArd	How can one detect if a given Object is an Array?
10:58	AWizzArd	(.isArray (make-array String 5))
10:58	AWizzArd	k
10:58	chouser	really?
10:59	AWizzArd	yes
10:59	AWizzArd	http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/Class.html#isArray()
10:59	chouser	I get java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: isArray for class [B
10:59	AWizzArd	yes, I forgot to wrap it into (class ..)
10:59	chouser	ah
10:59	AWizzArd	retyped it here
11:01	AWizzArd	(defn get-array-dims [a] (map count (take-while identity (iterate first (make-array Object 1 2 3 4 5)))))
11:01	AWizzArd	array? and get-array-dimensions could be helpful in Core.
11:04	rhickey	wtf? google group redirect infinite loop came right back
11:39	Kjellski	What would you do if you want to iterate through a vector and at some particular element you want to start collecting until some other particular element?
11:40	mattrepl	drop-while then take-while?
11:42	Kjellski	mattrepl: hmm, how would that look like?
11:42	Kjellski	,(doc take-while)
11:43	mattrepl	(take-while #("not the end element") (drop-while #("not the start element")))
11:44	Kjellski	mattrepl: thanks, I´ll try that...
11:44	mattrepl	tweak as necessary for inclusivity
11:45	hiredman	ping?
11:46	hiredman	ping?
11:46	clojurebot	PONG!
11:47	rmarianski	Kjellski: split-with might do what you want also
11:48	Kjellski	rmarianski: thanks, I´ll try that too...
12:03	Kjellski	rmarianski: Following problem, that gives me only the first occurence and rest. But I need it like this: blocks from 1 to 1 [1 2 2 1 3 3 1 4 4] -> ([1 2 2] [1 3 3] [1 4 4])
12:06	rmarianski	Kjellski: afaik, you'll have to write something custom
12:07	dnolen	erg how can I produce a string that has double quotes without backquoting the double quote?
12:07	Chousuke	can you?
12:07	chouser	,(char 34)
12:07	clojurebot	\"
12:08	Chousuke	that's probably not very convenient :P
12:08	chouser	no backquoting in the input! :-)
12:09	chouser	dnolen: there's no way to put double-quotes in a string literal without backquoting it.
12:09	dnolen	chouser: is there a simple way to replace them?
12:10	chouser	,(.replace "I said 'Hello World!'" \' \")
12:10	clojurebot	"I said \"Hello World!\""
12:10	chouser	you mean like that?
12:14	dnolen	chouser: thx, I thought the presence of \" in the string was an issue, but now I see that it's probably something else.
12:17	Kjellski	How can I "unuse" a namespace?
12:20	Fossi	Kjellski: afaik you can't
12:21	chouser	remove-ns
12:21	Raynes	There is remove-ns.
12:21	Raynes	o/
12:21	Kjellski	ty
12:21	Raynes	;)
12:23	Joreji	Anyone can tell me why (. (identity String) newInstance "fred") is no longer working?
12:24	Kjellski	Hmmm... removed like this: (remove-ns 'clojure.contrib.str-utils) but this won´t work because when I try (use 'clojure.contrib.str-utils2) e.g. chomp is already bound... =(
12:27	chouser	Joreji: the newInstance method of Class doesn't take any args. Doubt it ever has.
12:28	chouser	Joreji: if you want to use reflection to call a constructor with arguments, try clojure.lang.Reflector/invokeConstructor
12:29	Joreji	chouser: I got that from: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Learning_Clojure
12:29	Joreji	All I want is to create an instance of a class which I store inside a symbol
12:30	chouser	,(clojure.lang.Reflector/invokeConstructor String (to-array ["fred"]))
12:30	clojurebot	"fred"
12:30	Joreji	Ah, thanks!
12:30	chouser	it would be better to store a clojure function that does what you want, than just storing the symbol
12:31	chouser	,(let [ctor #(String. %)] (ctor "fred"))
12:31	clojurebot	"fred"
12:31	chouser	simpler, more flexible, and much much faster
12:33	Joreji	chouser: Yeah, but I'd need to use a macro in order to get the #(String. %) fun work for other cases. This I'm trying to avoid. Fortunately I only use it sparsely, so it shouldn't be a problem.
12:38	chouser	,((fn [p s] (->> [nil s] (iterate (fn [[_ [_ & xs]]] (split-with (complement p) xs))) (partition 2 1) (map (fn [[[_ [i]] [r]]] (cons i r))) (take-while first))) #{1} [1 2 2 1 3 3 1 4 4])
12:38	clojurebot	((1 2 2) (1 3 3) (1 4 4))
12:38	chouser	Kjellski: that's for you
12:38	chouser	but I suppose there's a better way
12:39	chouser	oh. duh.
12:40	chouser	,(map #(apply concat %) (partition 2 (partition-by #{1} [1 2 2 1 3 3 1 4 4])))
12:40	clojurebot	((1 2 2) (1 3 3) (1 4 4))
12:40	chouser	sheesh
12:42	lpetit	Hello all, I've not been there for the past 24 hours. Are we close to the end of the prim et al. branch story ?
12:43	rhickey	lpetit: no
12:44	lpetit	ok !
12:45	rhickey	lpetit: people have given up on bigint contagion too easily, I haven't, and am working on it
12:47	lpetit	rhickey: it's very exciting to assists / be part of the construction of such a great language !
12:48	rhickey	lpetit: not very glamorous from here :)
12:51	hoeck	rhickey: so you are working on a compromise?
12:53	rhickey	hoeck: more like what I first proposed, i.e. bigint contagion, while addressing some issues of that, but keeping the best of the other work (loop/recur, literals as primitives, etc)
12:53	rhickey	bigint contagion would allow for polymorphic use of +, -, *, less need for auto-promoting prime versions
12:55	chouser	yay
12:55	hoeck	great
12:55	chouser	less need for prime versions seems like a huge win to me
12:56	Raynes	lpetit: Does counterclockwise work with Eclipse 3.5? I heard a guy saying it wasn't working earlier, so I'm curious.
12:56	rhickey	but a lot of work - a return to some sort of equiv based =, a new BigInt type, changes to key lookup in maps/sets
12:57	chouser	Are you punting on the new BigInt for now? Surely someone else could do that for you.
12:57	dnolen	wow, a better BigInt. no compromise.
12:58	rhickey	chouser: I'd love help on that, I could spec it easily. We need it because BigInteger and Long hashCodes differ for the same values, secondarily, for performance
12:59	chouser	I shouldn't volunteer for that, but I might anyway.
12:59	chouser	don't tell fogus I'm not working on the book.
13:00	fogus	don't tell chouser I'm not working on the book.
13:00	chouser	don't tell Manning we're not working on the book. :-/
13:01	chouser	rhickey: the interface would look a lot like BigInteger?
13:01	rhickey	the net result would be that heterogeneous keys would be supported for maps and sets, when used with the Clojure API would use equiv, from Java, adds an .equals test
13:02	cemerick	rhickey: doesn't kawa have a good set of bigs? At least a good start, perhaps...
13:02	rhickey	chouser: not at all, quite minimal BigInt/fromBiginteger /fromLong .toBigInteger, j.u.Number API, accessors for long and BigInt parts, then just implement the needed support for clojure.lang.Numbers
13:02	cemerick	eh, it's probably not license-compatible
13:03	rhickey	cemerick: no need for that whole impl, just punt to BigInteger, all this is is a shell wrapping long-or-BigInteger, enforcing the semantic that BigInteger is null if fits in long
13:03	rhickey	It's quite a small thing
13:04	rhickey	remember, Long et al don't provide arithmetics, just holders, this is like that
13:20	chouser	rhickey: you'd want BigInt on the prim branch?
13:25	rhickey	chouser: on new branch, equiv, not there yet...
13:26	chouser	ok
13:29	rhickey	chouser: there now
13:29	rhickey	http://github.com/richhickey/clojure/tree/equiv
13:33	cemerick	Basically-working patch for #322 (making transitivity of AOT-compilation optional): http://github.com/cemerick/clojure/commit/6f14e0790c0d283a7e44056adf1bb3f36bb16e0e
13:34	cemerick	rhickey, chouser: thoughts welcome
13:35	cemerick	The only issue remaining is that the guard @ http://github.com/cemerick/clojure/commit/6f14e0790c0d283a7e44056adf1bb3f36bb16e0e#L1R5876 is necessary to avoid class gen by genclass and proxy, but putting it there makes protocol interface lookup fail at the moment.
13:39	hiredman	,(docs resolve)
13:39	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: docs in this context
13:39	hiredman	,(doc resolve)
13:39	clojurebot	"([sym]); same as (ns-resolve ns symbol)"
13:46	rhickey	chouser: you doing BigInt.java first? I need to twiddle with Numbers
13:49	bhenry	is there a built in exponents function? (something x y) -> x^y
13:49	chouser	rhickey: I was going to jump right into a .clj
13:49	chouser	deftype
13:50	rhickey	chouser: we'll have issue with that being available early enough
13:50	rhickey	bootstrap
13:50	chouser	:-( boo. yeah.
13:50	rhickey	chouser: if that sours it for you, let me know, the map part is easier than I thought
13:51	chouser	poor timing to work on a multistage clojure self-compiler I suppose
13:51	rhickey	yeah
13:51	chouser	I can still take a swing at it.
13:53	mattrepl	bhenry: (Math/pow x y)
13:54	bhenry	mattrepl: thanks. i was just using (defn ** [x y] (apply * (repeat y x)))
13:55	bhenry	,(let [** #(apply * (repeat %2 %1))] (** 2 3))
13:55	clojurebot	8
13:57	bhenry	,(Math/pow 2 3)
13:57	clojurebot	8.0
14:02	chouser	rhickey: .toLong throws on overflow? returns primitive?
14:06	rhickey	chouser: follow http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Number.html
14:08	chouser	so longValue instead of toLong
14:08	rhickey	chouser: right
14:15	chouser	hm, could probably use two classes and one interface to leverage method dispatch instead of having if(bigint == null) everywhere
14:22	iwillig	hi, i am trying to build a standalone jar with lein and i keep on getting the perplexing error
14:22	iwillig	http://paste.pocoo.org/show/229013/
14:23	iwillig	this is my main class
14:23	iwillig	http://paste.pocoo.org/show/229025/
14:23	iwillig	anyone have a few tips for a nb
14:24	cemerick	iwillig: the error is actually in geo.io
14:24	qbg	Don't do def outside of the toplevel
14:24	cemerick	iwillig: and, what qbg said :-)
14:24	KirinDave	cemerick: Yo dude. I am back.
14:25	iwillig	cemerick: how where you able to tell the error was in io ?
14:25	qbg	Probably from "at geo.io$read_features__101.doInvoke(io.clj:49)"
14:25	qbg	being the most recent call in your code
14:26	iwillig	thanks gusy
14:26	iwillig	*guys
14:28	lpetit	Raynes: if you still here, then the answer is yes, 3.5 is its current primary target
14:31	cemerick	lpetit: it seemed to work with a 3.6 RC I tried last week shrug
14:42	lpetit	cemerick: thx for the info. I hoped it was.
14:42	lpetit	must quit, cu
14:43	cemerick	lpetit: np -- I only used it for an afternoon, though, so don't take that as gospel :-)
15:04	fliebel	Is there anything in Clojure or Java to make servers other than HTTP? especially SMTP and POP3.
15:08	bartj	, (/ 22 7)
15:08	clojurebot	22/7
15:08	bartj	, (/ 10 10)
15:08	clojurebot	1
15:09	bartj	er, why is (/ 10 10) not a Ratio type?
15:10	chouser	reduces
15:10	chouser	,(/ 4 2)
15:10	clojurebot	2
15:10	chouser	,(/ 2 4)
15:10	clojurebot	1/2
15:11	bartj	it seems, like division with remainders are retained as Ratio type, right?
15:13	chouser	division with integers that does not result in a whole number results in a Ratio, yes.
15:16	bartj	chouser: thanks
15:29	lpetit	tcrayford created a project on github about clojure refactorings. I expect to add this kind of feature sooner or later (rather sooner than later !) to counterclockwise, but I'm not sure about the current impl. He apparently choosed to use the reader. So he's loosing information : how the metadata was entered (was it ^:key1 ^:key2 or {:key1 true :key2 true} ?), the comments, etc. . When the...
15:29	lpetit	...time permits to work on it for ccw, I guess I would first try to do as much as possible via static analysis with external source code parser, and maybe, in a second pass, try to 'plug' some info from a dynamic environment, if useful at all. Thoughts ?
15:39	bartj	, (contains? '("9" "8") "9") ; I was expecting a "true"
15:39	clojurebot	false
15:40	chouser	,(contains? #{"9" "8"} "9")
15:40	clojurebot	true
15:40	fyuryu	bartj: contains? checks if a map contains a key
15:41	bartj	, (doc contains?)
15:41	clojurebot	"([coll key]); Returns true if key is present in the given collection, otherwise returns false. Note that for numerically indexed collections like vectors and Java arrays, this tests if the numeric key is within the range of indexes. 'contains?' operates constant or logarithmic time; it will not perform a linear search for a value. See also 'some'."
15:41	cemerick	lpetit: entirely as an observer, I've seen a lot of editor plugins have a lot of trouble when they did anything other than use the language's real parser/reader/compiler/etc
15:41	bartj	fyuryu: the doc says it is a collection?
15:41	somnium	is it possible to generate and populate namespaces programmatically?
15:41	bartj	I assumed any seq would do...
15:42	fyuryu	bartj: well, I should be more precise, but still, it looks for a key
15:42	cemerick	lpetit: the ^:key1 vs {:key1 true} thing is really more of a formatting preference than anything, and you can default that to use the former if the metadata map is all keyword keys and boolean true values. There's probably more complicated scenarios.
15:43	fyuryu	bartj: since vectors are also maps (of their keys)
15:44	lpetit	cemerick: ccw uses its own hand-made parsetree with great success AFAIK :-p
15:44	fyuryu	,(contains? [0 1] 1)
15:44	clojurebot	true
15:45	cemerick	lpetit: well, hopefully it pans out well :-)
15:46	bhenry	fyuryu be cautious that the 1 it's finding is the key of that vector and not the value 1
15:46	bhenry	,(contains? [0 2] 1)
15:46	clojurebot	true
15:46	lpetit	cemerick: maybe, but what about the comments. And what about spaces / current indentation of the source code ? Why should a refactoring command ruin someone's carefully hand-made formatting ? I think those are pretty strong arguments against using the current parser as is. But still, I'm unsure about the "mix" story, as in mixing dynamic and static information to try go deeper in the...
15:46	lpetit	...understanding of the semantics of the source code (e.g. where macros are used, that is almost ... everywhere !) ?
15:47	fyuryu	bhenry: yes, my example could be better.
15:47	bhenry	fyuryu my bad. i thought it was you having trouble, not answering the question.
15:48	fyuryu	,(contains? [:a :b] 1)
15:48	clojurebot	true
15:48	lpetit	cemerick: but of course, if the current reader could be enhanced/instrumented to e.g. have a version which preserves everything in the source code
15:48	cemerick	lpetit: That's a fair point -- perhaps the next-gen reader should provide a more verbose output that includes everything tooling might need
15:48	cemerick	heh
15:48	lpetit	cemerick: but wait, no, there may still be the problem of the reader macros, no ?
15:48	lpetit	eh
15:49	lpetit	,(read-string "hello")
15:49	clojurebot	hello
15:49	lpetit	,(read-string "hello there")
15:49	clojurebot	hello
15:49	lpetit	,(read-string "(hello there)")
15:49	clojurebot	(hello there)
15:49	lpetit	,(read-string "(hello #_there)")
15:49	clojurebot	(hello)
15:49	lpetit	cemerick: see, #_there was swallowed too :-(
15:50	lpetit	(quite normal)
15:50	cemerick	lpetit: Sure -- the current impl isn't suitable then. IIUC, the reader's due for a pure-clojure replacement -- at that point, I'm sure the powers that be will be receptive to changes to help out on the tooling front. shrug
15:50	lpetit	cemerick: oh, and last but not least: the reader will only help with strict-strict correct syntax. I'm pretty sure the need may occur to be able to work on "sufficiently correct syntax" where possible
15:51	bartj	fyuryu: there is no "1" in [:a :b], yet returns true?
15:51	lpetit	cemerick: yeah. Though maybe our timeframes may not overlap :-(
15:51	cemerick	lpetit: any ideas how the scala plugins do it (which do use scalac et al)?
15:51	lpetit	cemerick: to be continued. thx for sharing thoughts
15:51	lpetit	cemerick: no idea
15:52	cemerick	heh, FWIW of course ;-)
15:52	raek	bartj: [:a :b] has the keys (in this case indices) 0 and 1
15:52	bhenry	bartj it's finding the key 1
15:52	bhenry	,(let [v [:a :b]] (v 1))
15:52	clojurebot	:b
15:52	lpetit	cemerick: of course :-p
15:52	lpetit	(just kidding)
15:54	bartj	, (contains? [:a :b] :c)
15:54	clojurebot	false
15:55	Licenser	greetings my lispy friends
15:55	bartj	ok, first time seeing vectors being used as maps!
15:57	chouser	,(map (vec "acgt") [2 1 3 1 2 1])
15:57	clojurebot	(\g \c \t \c \g \c)
15:57	chouser	,(map (vec "acgt") [2 0 3 0 1 0])
15:57	clojurebot	(\g \a \t \a \c \a)
15:58	bartj	bhenry: in your example, (contains? [:a :b] 1) -- we first get the key b and then check for the existence of b in [:a :b] - right?
15:58	fliebel	chouser: Huh, what are you doing?
15:58	chouser	fliebel: I'm using a vector as a fn
15:58	rhickey	chouser: got anything?
15:58	chouser	rhickey: yeah, but I don't know java very well
15:59	chouser	it's hurting me
15:59	fliebel	chouser: So you create a vector of char symbols which get retrieved with map?
15:59	chouser	rhickey: give me another 5 minutes and I might have a useful starting place for you.
15:59	rhickey	ouch
15:59	rhickey	chouser: ok, thanks
15:59	bhenry	bartj: you're confusing keywords with keys. and i should have said index instead of key. the 1 is an index in [:a :b]
16:00	bhenry	so contains? is looking for a key. in a vector, its keys are its indices. [:a :b :c] will return true in contains? for 0 1 2
16:01	bartj	bhenry: thanks!
16:01	fliebel	Do Clojure or Java have a network library like Twisted?
16:02	dnolen	fliebel: Netty
16:02	dnolen	there's the beginning of wrapper for it called saturnine on github
16:02	fliebel	dnolen: thanks, I'll look it up. I need to do some SMTP adn POP3 server stuff.
16:03	bartj	bhenry: what about a list?
16:03	chouser	rhickey: I haven't touched Numbers.java, but I have a BigInt.java. You want it in email?
16:03	bartj	, (contains? '(9 8) 1)
16:04	clojurebot	false
16:04	bhenry	bartj a list will always return false in contains?
16:04	rhickey	chouser: could you please email to dev list? Thanks!
16:06	bartj	bhenry: it seems to be that lists also have indices because things like this:
16:06	bartj	(first '(1 2))
16:06	bartj	, (first '( 1 2))
16:06	clojurebot	1
16:06	bartj	*because of
16:07	bhenry	bartj, first doesn't find it by an index
16:07	bhenry	neither do things like get.
16:07	bhenry	you can
16:07	bhenry	't do this
16:08	bhenry	,(let [my-list '(1 2 3)] (my-list 1))
16:08	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentList cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
16:08	bhenry	but you can do
16:08	bhenry	,(let [my-vec [1 2 3]] (my-vec 1))
16:08	clojurebot	2
16:09	bartj	and this is because vectors are allocated in contiguous memory locations and lists are not - right?
16:10	bhenry	that's over my head, but i just read the joy of clojure and they specifically cover contains? on lists and vectors and other things like sets.
16:11	bartj	er, anyone here can confirm the above, plz?
16:11	hiredman	bartj: that is not true
16:11	hiredman	vectors are not arrays
16:11	somnium	bartj its unrelated
16:12	rhickey	chouser: or just put in Files section of clojure-dev
16:12	bartj	hmm, then why does contains? work on vectors and not on lists?
16:12	hiredman	a list like '(1 2) is logically a head and a tail, there is no numbering
16:13	hiredman	,(doc contains?)
16:13	clojurebot	"([coll key]); Returns true if key is present in the given collection, otherwise returns false. Note that for numerically indexed collections like vectors and Java arrays, this tests if the numeric key is within the range of indexes. 'contains?' operates constant or logarithmic time; it will not perform a linear search for a value. See also 'some'."
16:14	bartj	hiredman / bhenry: thank you for your patience, I get it...
16:15	chouser	rhickey: just sent.
16:15	rhickey	chouser: thanks!
16:15	chouser	I screwed up the overflow cases -- happy to fix it if you're rather not.
16:16	chouser	of course I likely screwed up other things too. Hope it saves you some time anyway.
16:17	rhickey	chouser: it will, thanks again
16:24	nathanmarz	does "reduce" use the stack as it goes through the seq? i'm getting a StackOverflowError while doing a reduce on a really long seq
16:28	bhenry	nathanmarz, is the code gistable (aka not proprietary)
16:31	nathanmarz	bhenry: http://gist.github.com/450501
16:31	nathanmarz	it happens rarely
16:31	nathanmarz	it might be happening in that map actually
16:36	qbg	nathanmarz: The code might be making lazy thunks too deep with map
16:37	Chousuke	that's most likely what's happening.
16:37	qbg	Try using doall around the map
16:38	Chousuke	I'm not quite sure what you're trying to do there
16:38	Chousuke	what kind of input do you have and what kind of output do you need?
16:38	lpetit	chouser: no reimplementation of equals/hashcode in BigInt ?
16:38	chouser	oh
16:38	chouser	I didn't get that far, did I. :-P
16:38	chouser	I'm just so slow at Java
16:38	lpetit	wasn't it the whole point of doing the exercise ? :-p
16:40	rhickey	lpetit: done already
16:40	lpetit	rhickey: ok then, so no need to give more feedback on the email ?
16:41	rhickey	lpetit: nope, that was just a starting point
16:41	lpetit	rhickey: ok, so just using clojure-dev as your private chouser/rhickey sandbox :-p
16:41	rhickey	lpetit: public, that's the point
16:42	lpetit	rhickey: ok, copyright et al.
16:48	Nanakhiel	mmarczyk, are you there?
16:48	mmarczyk	Nanakhiel: ?
16:48	Nanakhiel	http://codepad.org/Ej8SrXi1 do you agree with the design goals?
16:48	Nanakhiel	As you can hopefully infer, it is designed towards easy and efficient compilation
16:49	mmarczyk	um, why'd you ask me?
16:50	Nanakhiel	mmarczyk, because you are the fifth greatest programmer.
16:50	mmarczyk	changed your nick, I see?
16:50	Nanakhiel	Also, you solved my issue with tail calls, and I have your leg in my stomach.
16:50	mmarczyk	anything to do with a recent screenshot?
16:50	Nanakhiel	Ahh
16:50	Nanakhiel	Nahh
16:50	Nanakhiel	I have multiple
16:50	Islaam	Including this treasure I got before all others
16:50	Lajla	I have about 30 registered I think
16:51	mmarczyk	well, sorry, no time now
16:51	Lajla	mmarczyk, you can't go anywhere, you have but one leg.
16:52	Lajla	Muahahahha
18:18	Licenser	optimizing clojure isn't actally funnny :(
18:35	dsop	is there a way at to start a compojure app using leinigen without building a jar?
18:37	lancepantz	dsop: you can do so from a repl, if that's what you're interested in
18:37	dsop	lancepantz: hm I was thinking more of a lein run target
18:38	lancepantz	yeah, just reopen you're namespace and call run-jetty in it
18:38	lancepantz	i guess you don't need to reopen it actually
18:39	lancepantz	*your :)
18:43	mmarczyk	dsop: there are at least two "lein run" plugins, one's available on Clojars -- leiningen-run "0.2" worked for me in a toy project -- and I remember reading about another one some time ago...
18:44	mmarczyk	dsop: here's another one: http://github.com/sids/lein-run/
18:48	dsop	mmarczyk: thank you!
19:00	mmarczyk	np
19:05	kensanata	Yum, Practical Clojure arrived...
19:11	Licenser	benchmarks make me cry
19:12	Licenser	http://gist.github.com/450704 is ugly code!
19:14	Licenser	I give up for today good night people
19:31	alexyk	clj-json spends a long time rebuilding a map upon read. Is there a simple way to use jackson in stream mode, token by token, to rebuild a map very fast?
19:31	alexyk	I guess avoiding reflection, in case I know what my map looks like.
19:34	arete	alexyk: you can use ObjectMapper and pass a Map type to readValue(Type)
19:34	arete	but I don't know if it can handle clojure's Map types
19:34	alexyk	arete: what if I have nested maps? my idea is to read token by token
19:35	alexyk	and construct my nested type as I go
19:35	arete	alexyk: it'll make a map of maps
19:35	arete	jackson is fab =)
19:35	alexyk	arete: well I have 3 levels :)
19:36	arete	it has no depth limit
19:37	kiras	there doesn't seem to be a lot of information about using clojure for android programming yet. i found some links explaining how it can be done and this link http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/213b7675a78755de/8195672b167d0ffd but is there a general consensus on whether it's a good idea at this point compared to just using java?
19:41	dsop	is there a good documentation of compojure 0.4, i searched but i didn't found any
19:43	nathanmarz	Chousuke qbg: you guys were right about that function, doall did the trick. thanks for the help
19:43	qbg	No problem
19:43	alexyk	how do you specify a main for leiningen's uberjar?
19:43	qbg	The :main option in project.clj
19:44	alexyk	meaning which clojure source to write?
19:44	mmarczyk	dsop: http://formpluslogic.blogspot.com/2010/04/migrating-from-compojure-032-to-040-and_01.html http://carpathia.blogspot.com/2010/05/yet-another-clojure-compojure-google.html http://compojureongae.posterous.com/ -- all "focused" articles, but you'll probably be able to gather some useful info from there
19:44	qbg	:main specifies the class to be used
19:44	qbg	I usually use a :gen-class'ed namespace
19:45	qbg	For a REPL, you would use :main clojure.main
19:45	alexyk	qbg: I have pure clojure, no gen-class...
19:45	alexyk	I just want one defn to be main
19:46	mmarczyk	alexyk: use :main with a namespace name
19:46	mmarczyk	alexyk: it'll call the function -main from there
19:46	alexyk	ok
19:47	qbg	I believe you still need to :gen-class that namespace
19:49	alexyk	lancepantz: is jiraph-0.1.3 on clojars fresh?
19:52	ninjudd	alexyk: it is, but i have some changes in my local repo that i'm planning to commit later this week
19:52	ninjudd	switching to protocols
19:53	ninjudd	and switching off ant
19:53	alexyk	ninjudd: coolio! finally a reason to learn them. Back to Clojure as OCaml now works and beats it 3x.
19:53	alexyk	speedwise
19:53	alexyk	but there's way
19:53	alexyk	to catch up since
19:53	alexyk	the current clojure is simple
19:54	alexyk	(sorry return is in the way :)
19:55	ninjudd	hmm, are you using the jiraph walk code?
19:55	alexyk	ninjudd: I only use the .tc
19:56	ninjudd	ah
19:56	ninjudd	are you doing graph traversals? or just bulk read and write benchmarks
19:57	mmarczyk	qbg: alexyk: apparently no :gen-class is needed for :main
19:57	alexyk	mmarczyk: cool, thx
19:58	qbg	Interesting...
19:58	mmarczyk	qbg: I tried (ns foo.core) (defn -main [& args] (println "Foo!")) plus a project.clj with just :main foo.core in defproject, ran lein uberjar (with clojure and contrib jars in lib/) and java -jar foo-0.0.1-standalone.jar prints Foo!
19:59	qbg	Perhaps leiningen does some magic
19:59	alexyk	ninjudd: did you guys figure out how to use clojure-protobuf with lein?
19:59	mmarczyk	I do note that leiningen.core is :gen-classed
19:59	mmarczyk	I wonder why
19:59	ninjudd	had some trouble getting it to work
20:00	alexyk	ninjudd: so do I have to manually do that beforehand?
20:03	technomancy	mmarczyk: the gen-class is to make the uberjar work
20:03	technomancy	since http://www.assembla.com/spaces/clojure/tickets/315-add-support-for-running--main-namespace-from-clojure-main-without-aot still hasn't been applied =\
20:05	technomancy	wait... you got java -jar to work without gen-class? iiiiinteresting.
20:05	mmarczyk	technomancy: right
20:06	mmarczyk	technomancy: which is why I'm wondering if this issue might have been solved somehow without #315 noticing
20:07	mmarczyk	technomancy: btw, would you like a patch for this? http://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/#issue/55
20:07	technomancy	mmarczyk: yes! that'd be grande.
20:07	technomancy	and also grand.
20:07	mmarczyk	:-)
20:08	mmarczyk	:jar-name in defproject then?
20:08	technomancy	sure
20:08	mmarczyk	will be ready in a minute
20:09	lancepantz	mmarczyk: what about war and ubers?
20:09	mmarczyk	lancepantz: ah, good point about uber
20:09	lancepantz	i guess war would be in the plugin's logic
20:09	technomancy	mmarczyk: can't repro -main working without :gen-class here. perhaps you tried it with gen-class, removed the gen-class and tried again without cleaning?
20:09	mmarczyk	right
20:09	clojurebot	No, technomancy, you want gen-interface + proxy
20:09	mmarczyk	technomancy: hm... I thought I cleaned
20:09	mmarczyk	let me check again
20:10	mmarczyk	ah. well, apparently I hadn't -- sorry for the confusion
20:11	technomancy	got my hopes up. =)
20:11	technomancy	well, #315 solves it pretty nicely... just no idea how long it'll take to get applied.
20:11	mmarczyk	only for them to be shattered again immediately... sorry ;-)
20:11	mmarczyk	alexyk: :gen-class after all then...
20:12	mmarczyk	yeah, your comment on HN is relevant here...
20:12	alexyk	clojurebot talks back. I must have been drinking
20:12	technomancy	clojurebot has an attitude.
20:13	alexyk	it'll get Obama summon it to White House and fire it if it keeps at it
20:15	alexyk	"I have a deep respect and admiration for the clojurebot. It solved inane examples thrown at it by newbies for 2 years. It suffered hiredman's domestic abuse without crying. But Clojure is bigger than any bot."
20:24	mmarczyk	ah, turns out lein has the standard (uber)jar naming scheme hardcoded in a number of places... refactoring that now
20:40	mmarczyk	technomancy\|away: would you mind having "lein jar foo" create "foo.jar" (rather than the current "lein jar foo.jar")?
20:43	bhenry	mmarczyk: why not both instead of "rather than"
20:44	mmarczyk	bhenry: how do you mean? take notice of a trailing ".jar" in the name and throw it away?
20:44	mmarczyk	bhenry: I mean, not throw it away, just not add another one
20:46	bhenry	something to catch it. i don't personally, but someone might have something made already to do this that they shouldn't have to change. it's not a big deal in this example, but i hate when things get broken from code changes.
20:46	mmarczyk	me too, so I suppose I won't break it after all :-)
20:49	mmarczyk	although actually in this case
20:50	mmarczyk	...ah, never mind, I realised what I was going to say might be false actually :-P
20:51	bhenry	yeah. i wondered if people will read this later and be like "damn that bhenry, mmarczyk was going to make a change i've been hoping for since day one and he blew it."
20:51	mmarczyk	:-D
20:52	mmarczyk	it'll be an scratch-a-word-from-two-lines-then-add-to-one change, not to worry ;-)
23:48	slyrus	anyone (here) working on computational biology projects in clojure?
23:51	Bahman	Hi all!