#clojure – 2010-05-23

2010-05-23

00:00	scgilardi	a mouse crossed technomancy's path once... once.
00:11	johnmn3	looking at Lau B. Jensen's prototurtle blog entry (http://bestinclass.dk/index.clj/2010/04/prototurtle-the-tale-of-the-bleeding-turtle.html), I noticed the example of defrecord has no default implementation. Just a signature. He could have built the protocol first and built the defrecord with an implementation, right?
00:14	_na_ka_na_	Hi all
00:15	_na_ka_na_	Any one answer http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/ea39801f8e907640 ?
00:31	johnmn3	_na_ka_na_: sorry, I don't know about that
00:31	_na_ka_na_	johnmn3: thx for looking anyway
00:34	johnmn3	is reify, deftype, or defrecord preferred over proxy now?
00:36	technomancy	johnmn3: reify replaces most uses of proxy
00:37	johnmn3	clojure.org/datatypes: "reify is preferable to proxy in all cases where its constraints are not prohibitive."
00:37	johnmn3	bah, thanks technomancy
00:38	johnmn3	that page also says: "mutability should be the default
00:38	johnmn3	and is the only option for records"
00:39	johnmn3	but lau put's gui components into defrecord... which are mutable. perhaps it means only the keys are immutable?
00:43	technomancy	no, records are immutable
00:49	johnmn3	technomancy: k, thanks
01:05	johnmn3	I'm trying to translate a java class to clojure. this class has fields that aren't passed to the constructor but are created in the body of the class.
01:05	johnmn3	they can be accessed like object.myString
01:06	johnmn3	the constructor for the class, though, only takes one gui component.
01:08	technomancy	johnmn3: if you are just learning Clojure, I'd advise against making a gui app your first project.
01:08	johnmn3	is it possible for the implementation within a defrecord to generate an accessible field? or do they all have to be specified in the params to the defrecord?
01:10	johnmn3	yea, I hear ya, technomancy. I just really want to make this program. It's a lot of fun
01:10	technomancy	sure, don't let me dissuade you from having fun. =)
01:10	johnmn3	dealing with GUIs arent.
01:12	johnmn3	oh, I'm thinking about this all wrong. this example I've been working with.. it starts with an abstract class, then another extends it.
01:14	johnmn3	rich stated not to extend concrete implementations (if I read that correctly). so this example doesn't map to clojure that way
01:15	johnmn3	"you cannot derive datatypes from concrete classes, only interfaces"
01:16	johnmn3	meaning, I won't be able to create a "default implementation" and then extend that implementation by simply adding or changing method definitions.
01:16	johnmn3	if I understand correctly
02:08	hsuh	hm, clojure.org not working
02:26	johnmn3	how does one refer to fields from within a record's definition?
02:26	johnmn3	like this:
02:26	johnmn3	(defrecord R [arg] P (foo [] arg))
02:26	johnmn3	or:
02:26	johnmn3	(defrecord R [arg] P (foo [] (:arg this)))
02:26	johnmn3	?
02:41	hoeck	johnmn3: I would prefer to use the former, except when the fieldname clashes with an argument name
02:42	hoeck	there is even a third possibility (least preferred, I guess): (.arg this)
02:45	johnmn3	hoeck: in that example "arg" is not an argument to the method.. the method is trying to refer to the value of the field. so that is allowed?
02:48	hoeck	of course, (.arg this) refers to the field named "arg", though it seems that it prefers to call a method "arg" if both, the method and the field exist
02:49	johnmn3	ok.. that makes things easier
02:51	johnmn3	and if one of the methods calls another method within the same type/protocol, we use the literal word "this"?? like, (.other-method this)
02:51	johnmn3	?
02:51	hoeck	no, the this is defined in the signature of the method
02:52	hoeck	(defrecord X [..] P (method [this, args ...] ))
02:52	johnmn3	well, as per Lua Jenson's prototurtle example, he put "this" in the signature of the protocol, but not the record.
02:53	johnmn3	http://bestinclass.dk/index.clj/2010/04/prototurtle-the-tale-of-the-bleeding-turtle.html
02:53	sexpbot	"Best In Class: ProtoTurtle - The tale of the bleeding turtle"
02:53	hoeck	yeah, there used to be a :this parameter to the defrecord some weeks ago
02:53	johnmn3	aaah
02:54	johnmn3	ok, so keep the "this" param in both the protocol and the record/datatype?
02:55	hoeck	the :this parameter is gone, and each method takes the current object as the first argument
02:56	johnmn3	ok
02:57	johnmn3	so does that mean I have to do this: (defrecord R [arg] P (foo [this] (:arg this))) ??
02:57	hoeck	note how Lau, in extend-protocol, uses destruction on the first argument to move (the actual "this" argument)
02:57	hoeck	right, or (foo [_] arg)
02:58	hoeck	or (foo [t] (:arg t))
02:59	johnmn3	in your first example there.. clojure knows that arg is a field on the record?
03:00	johnmn3	I see what you're saying about the destructuring there
03:01	hoeck	yeah, because the thing is defined in a defrecord context: (defrecord X [arg] P (foo [_] arg))
03:02	johnmn3	cool.. thanks hoeck!
03:09	danlarkin	I destruct my args all the time
03:09	danlarkin	they're like nooooooooo and I'm like destructttttttttt
03:09	hiredman	your args are very destructive
03:10	hiredman	arg(ument)s
03:21	emptist	(* 10 20)
03:21	clojurebot	suffusion of yellow
03:21	Fossi	:D
03:21	pjstadig	(* 1 1)
03:21	clojurebot	1
03:21	danlarkin	,(dinc 1)
03:21	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: dinc in this context
03:21	danlarkin	WHAT
03:21	pjstadig	heeh
03:22	pjstadig	$(dinc 1)
03:22	sexpbot	DENIED!
03:22	danlarkin	sexpbot I hate you
03:23	pjstadig	$learn sexpbot and danlarkin are feuding
03:23	sexpbot	My memory is more powerful than M-x butterfly. I wont forget it.
03:23	drewr	$(println "/me huggles danlarkin")
03:23	sexpbot	=> /me huggles danlarkin nil
03:23	pjstadig	$sexpbot
03:23	sexpbot	Command not found. No entiendo lo que estás diciendo.
03:23	danlarkin	$(System/exit 1)
03:23	sexpbot	DENIED!
03:24	Fossi	what the hell is M-x butterfly?
03:24	danlarkin	$#=(System/exit 1)
03:24	sexpbot	Command not found. No entiendo lo que estás diciendo.
03:25	danlarkin	$(list #=(System/exit 1))
03:25	sexpbot	EvalReader not allowed when read-eval is false.
03:26	Fossi	i doubt you can break it that easily
03:28	danlarkin	that was ingenious!
03:28	pjstadig	$clojure-version
03:28	sexpbot	Command not found. No entiendo lo que estás diciendo.
03:28	danlarkin	$(clojure-version)
03:28	sexpbot	=> "1.2.0-master-SNAPSHOT"
03:29	pjstadig	$System
03:29	sexpbot	Command not found. No entiendo lo que estás diciendo.
03:31	danlarkin	$(dotimes [_ 30] (doto (Thread. #((fn this [] (try :foo (finally (this)))))) .start))
03:31	sexpbot	DENIED!
03:32	johnmn3	$(read-string '(System/exit 1))
03:32	sexpbot	DENIED!
03:32	johnmn3	$(read-string '(+ 1 1 2))
03:32	sexpbot	DENIED!
03:34	johnmn3	$(future (inc 1))
03:34	sexpbot	DENIED!
04:13	dysinger	sexpbot: $(+ 1 1)
05:36	johnmn3	is there a clojure.contrib that auto-resolves imports?
07:17	hoeck	johnmn3: what do you mean by "auto-resolving" imports
07:30	angerman	if I have a set of functions f1,...,f4 and a value x. How'd I construct (x, f1(x), f2(f(1(x),....,f4(f3(f2(f1(x)))))
07:30	angerman	?
07:33	Borkdude	maybe use (indexed [f1 f2 f3 f4]), comp and use (for [r (range 4)] (range r))
07:34	Borkdude	hmm, don't even have to use indexed
07:35	Borkdude	,(for [r (range 4)] (range r))
07:35	clojurebot	(() (0) (0 1) (0 1 2))
07:35	angerman	Borkdude: hmm that's right. I'm still wondering weather or not one could just use the last value.
07:35	Borkdude	,(doseq [r (range 5)] (range r))
07:35	clojurebot	nil
07:35	hoeck	wild guess: (reductions #(apply %2 %1) x [f1 f2 f3 f4]) ???
07:36	Borkdude	hmm
07:36	angerman	hoeck: that sounds not too bad
07:36	Borkdude	hoeck: that might be it
07:37	angerman	,(let [f #(%+1)] (reductions #(apply %2 %1) 1 [f f f f]))
07:37	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Integer
07:37	Borkdude	,(let [f #(inc %)] (reductions #(apply %2 %1) 1 [f f f f]))
07:37	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Integer
07:38	Borkdude	,(let [f #(inc %)] (reductions #(%2 %1) 1 [f f f f]))
07:38	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5)
07:38	hoeck	,(reductions #(apply %2 %1) x [f1 f2 f3 f4])
07:38	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: x in this context
07:39	hoeck	,(reductions #(%2 %1) 10 [inc inc inc dec])
07:39	clojurebot	(10 11 12 13 12)
07:39	Borkdude	great :)
07:39	hoeck	right, the apply was wrong
07:39	Borkdude	I'll have to save this example for my Twitter account @cleotd
07:39	hoeck	yes, reductions is cool, and its even in core now!
07:40	angerman	hm.
07:40	Borkdude	I already had it scheduled, but this is a nice application of it
07:41	angerman	Hm. #(%2 %1) is #(%2 %) :D
07:42	Borkdude	not much improvement in readability imho;)
07:42	angerman	1 char saved on twitter :D
07:42	Borkdude	angerman: haha that's true
07:45	Borkdude	is there a set that allows for duplicate values, otherwise called a bag in clojure?
07:46	angerman	While I did hear about that bag structure from a fellow student. I still don't really get what I'd use it for
07:46	Borkdude	angerman, Euler problem 5
07:46	Borkdude	I have to remember that I need thrice a factor 2
07:47	Borkdude	let me explain my problem some more
07:47	Borkdude	the factors of 8 are [2 2 2]
07:48	Borkdude	the factors of 4 are [2 2], so if I join the common factors of 8 and 4 I have to get [2 2 2]
07:50	angerman	so you basically have key:count?
07:50	angerman	well of factor:mulitple
07:50	Borkdude	angerman: I could do it like that
07:51	Borkdude	I might as well do that
07:52	Borkdude	is there a simple update, instead of update-in?
07:54	Borkdude	can I do: (update-in map [factor] inc), without having to check if factor is already there
07:54	Borkdude	and if it's not there, it will be inserted with default value 1
07:57	Borkdude	I mean like this: (defn update-or-insert [m k f d]
07:57	Borkdude	(if (contains? m k)
07:57	Borkdude	(update-in m [k] f)
07:57	Borkdude	(assoc m k d)))
07:57	Borkdude
07:58	Borkdude	(update-or-insert {} 3 inc 1) => {3 1}
07:58	Borkdude	(update-or-insert {3 1} 3 inc 1) => {3 2}
08:00	Chousuke	Borkdude: you could also wrap inc so that it handles nil.
08:02	hoeck	Borkdude: deftype rocks for such datastructure creations
08:02	hoeck	Borkdude: http://gist.github.com/410875
08:06	Borkdude	Chousuke: ok - hoeck: tnx, will look into it later.
08:06	Borkdude	gtg now
08:17	angerman	ok, just a very qick and extemely stupid reality check.
08:17	angerman	Assume M to be a square Matrix.
08:18	angerman	if \lambda v = M v. v Is eigenvector for eigenvalue \lambda, no?
08:22	moshisushi	hello! i wanna discuss side effects.. is it up to the programmer to make sure that side effects are avoided inside of transaction?
08:23	angerman	me shoots himself
08:24	angerman	just in case anyone is going to use decomp-eigenvalue from incanter
08:25	angerman	don't try to get the eigenvectors using nth on the (:vectors part of the result). Your are going to get the rows of the eigenvector matrix instead of the eigenvetors you'd want. :/
08:35	hoeck	moshisushi: right, the programmer takes care
08:40	Chousuke	moshisushi: you can use the io! macro to mark code blocks that do IO
08:40	Chousuke	moshisushi: if such code is executed in a transaction, an exception is thrown
08:41	angerman	hmm. Clojure + JReality + Incanter is quite some fun :D
09:19	angerman	what does "no dispetch macro for: p" mean?
09:20	angerman	I assue it chokes on `(let [#ps (. ~ev getPointSet)
09:20	angerman	I though #ps was for gensym
09:21	angerman	ahh post
09:21	angerman	not pre
09:51	moshisushi	Chousuke: ah
09:51	moshisushi	Chousuke: because quoting the "programming clojure" book: In Clojure, side effects are
09:51	moshisushi	explicit and unusual. do is one way to say “side effects to follow.”
09:52	moshisushi	but i would say that (defn foo [] (println "hello")) is a function that returns nil, and happens to have the side effect of printing
10:02	Chousuke	moshisushi: right.
10:03	Chousuke	moshisushi: though if you want to be precise, it's not a function, it's a procedure. :)
10:04	Chousuke	and its return value is irrelevant.
10:05	moshisushi	Chousuke: ugh, i'm not quite sure i understand the difference :)
10:05	Chousuke	the point the book tries to make I think is that side-effects should be rare and isolated, not commonplace like in imperative and object-oriented languages.
10:06	moshisushi	Chousuke: right. i come from a Haskell background so i just have to loosen up my approach to side effects :)
10:07	moshisushi	in that STM, there's just no way to sneak in an io operation in a transaction
10:07	Chousuke	moshisushi: a procedure is something that has side-effects. a function doesn't.
10:07	Chousuke	but usually people just say "function" and "pure function" :P
10:08	Chousuke	yeah, the type system takes care of that.
10:08	Chousuke	but clojure doesn't have that, so the programmer has more responsibility
10:09	moshisushi	Chousuke: well there are benefits to not having to fight a type system too.. so i guess io! is sufficient :)
10:09	Chousuke	yeah.
10:10	moshisushi	Chousuke: "defn is a macro that makes defining functions a little simpler."
10:10	moshisushi	i think the terminology is a bit messed up :)
10:10	Chousuke	how so? :)
10:11	Chousuke	you can define functions without defn
10:11	moshisushi	Chousuke: yeah but you just said that defn creates procedures :)
10:11	moshisushi	or well, procedures is maybe not part of the clojure lingo at all
10:12	Chousuke	well yeah, I make the distinction sometimes but most people don't
10:13	moshisushi	yeah ok hehe.. so defn is pretty much def:ing an implicit lambda function?
10:13	Chousuke	yeah
10:13	Chousuke	hmm
10:14	Chousuke	I think clojurebot will complain to me if I try to demonstrate it
10:14	Chousuke	$(macroexpand '(defn foo [x] 1))
10:14	Chousuke	hm, what happened to sexpbot's evaluator :P
10:14	moshisushi	Chousuke: just paste it and i'll try for myself in emacs
10:15	Chousuke	moshisushi: well, try the above.
10:15	moshisushi	user> (macroexpand '(defn foo [x] 1))
10:15	moshisushi	(def foo (clojure.core/fn ([x] 1)))
10:15	Chousuke	macroexpand is useful :)
10:15	moshisushi	yeah, a fn
10:15	Chousuke	C-c C-m does macroexpand in emacs I think
10:15	Chousuke	hm
10:16	moshisushi	Chousuke: yeah it does
10:16	moshisushi	much cleaner too
10:17	moshisushi	i.e, no unnecessary namespace stuff, it looks
10:17	Chousuke	did it expand to fn*?
10:17	moshisushi	(def foo (fn ([x] 1)))
10:18	moshisushi	that's the expansion with SLIME Macroexpansion
10:18	Chousuke	hmm, I guess you have the pretty-printer working then
10:18	moshisushi	Chousuke: probably.. i have a pre-packaged thing called Clojure Box
10:18	moshisushi	emacs+slime+whatnot
10:19	Chousuke	I wonder if there is a way to turn off pretty-printing for the macroexpand. sometimes it matters :)
10:19	Chousuke	well, the namespace-dequalification anyway
10:20	Chousuke	sometimes you might want to generate code from a macro that explicitly does not have qualified symbols and that makes it hard to tell if you've succeeded or not
10:20	moshisushi	Chousuke: if i use (macroexpand 'myfun) i don't get prettyprinting
10:20	Chousuke	I suppose that's good enough.
10:21	moshisushi	unless there's something in (def foo (clojure.core/fn ([x] 1))) that's also prettyprinted
12:32	chouser	I just added a var to my repl config so I can (set! pprint false) when necessary
12:49	programble	hm...
12:50	kotarak	sososososo
12:54	chouser	VC?
12:54	chouser	oh, sorry
13:00	kotarak	chouser: yeah, it's not perfect. But it has some nice things under its belt. :)
13:39	replaca	moshisushi: yeh, prettyprint is built into slime, but not included in the regular macroexpand
13:57	moshisushi	replaca: i see! thnx
14:12	OForero	hi
14:13	OForero	I am wondering if there is any command that can reset a REPL (connected through Swank)
14:14	OForero	instead of having to stop and start it
14:38	Borkdude	how do I create a sorted-map from a map?
14:39	Borkdude	I have a function (factors), that takes a number and keeps a map of the factors found so far... is it better to use a sorted-map to begin with? I only need to have the end result sorted
14:40	kotarak	Borkdude: (into (sorted-map) the-map)
14:47	Borkdude	kotarak: do I have to return a sorted-map everywhere in the factors fun, or there a more clever way to do it?
14:47	Borkdude	http://gist.github.com/411154
14:47	Borkdude	I could use an inner fn and then sort its return val
14:48	kotarak	(doc fnil)
14:48	clojurebot	I don't understand.
14:48	kotarak	pff
14:52	kotarak	Borkdude: well you can use a sorted-map to begin with.
14:52	kotarak	Borkdude: but don't ask me, what is better
14:53	Borkdude	kotarak: ah well, I only have to replace {} with (sorted-map)
14:53	Borkdude	not too bad
14:59	Borkdude	if you try this code: (doseq [in (repeatedly #(read-line)) :while in] (print in))
14:59	Borkdude	is there any way to get out of this?
15:00	kotarak	no
15:01	kotarak	Borkdude: you can do (let [stop? (atom false)] (doseq [in (repeatedly #(read-line)) :while (and in (not @stop?))] (print in)))
15:01	kotarak	Borkdude: and reset! stop? to true from some other thread
15:15	Borkdude	kotarak: yes, tnx
15:27	Borkdude	btw, I don't know why, but if I begin a line with ; in clojure-mode, type and press enter, the line gets indented 40 positions
15:43	OForero	lein help is failing with this message
15:43	OForero	http://paste.pocoo.org/show/217486/
15:43	OForero	any idea of what could be broken_
15:43	angerman	how do I join two lists?
15:50	angerman	hmm. ok. I had reduce and cons mixed up :/
15:53	Raynes	$(concat [1 2 3] [4 5 6])
15:53	sexpbot	=> (1 2 3 4 5 6)
15:53	angerman	$(concat '(1 2 3) '(4 5 6))
15:53	sexpbot	=> (1 2 3 4 5 6)
15:53	angerman	aye
16:04	pedroteixeira	anyone knows how to call something like (apply new Class [arg1 arg2])
16:04	pedroteixeira	?
16:08	pedroteixeira	is "new" a normal function or macro, or is it a special reader macro?
16:10	Raynes	(doc new)
16:10	clojurebot	I don't understand.
16:10	Raynes	pedroteixeira: It's a special form)
16:11	pedroteixeira	ok, thanks.. trying to figure it out how to instantiate a class with a Seq of args.
16:11	pedroteixeira	will just use reflection for now..
16:11	triyo	you can wrap the special form in fn form and then apply...
16:24	Borkdude	Is (not (some pred ...)) the same as (every? pred ...), I guess so yes?
16:27	chouser	no
16:28	chouser	hm.
16:28	triyo	hehe
16:28	chouser	no
16:29	chouser	,(not (some odd? [2]))
16:29	clojurebot	true
16:29	chouser	,(every? odd? [2])
16:29	clojurebot	false
16:29	chouser	(not (some ...)) is the same as (not-any? ...)
16:37	Borkdude	chouser: of course, doh
16:37	Borkdude	useful to know, there is not-any
16:37	Borkdude	with question mark
16:38	Borkdude	One more question, is :default and :else more or less the same in cond?
16:40	chouser	sure, anything that's always true would work, including 'true'. But :else is idiomatic -- please use it.
16:40	Borkdude	ah yes, alright
16:42	Borkdude	If I find myself doing a lot of (first (filter pred coll)), should I use a different construct maybe?
16:47	mabes	,(source find-first)
16:47	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: source in this context
16:47	mabes	,(doc find-first)
16:47	clojurebot	"clojure.contrib.seq-utils/find-first;[[pred coll]]; Returns the first item of coll for which (pred item) returns logical true. Consumes sequences up to the first match, will consume the entire sequence and return nil if no match is found."
16:48	mabes	Borkdude: ^ find-first does what you are doing
16:48	Borkdude	mabes, great, tnx
17:28	OForero	what will be the equivalent of overriding toString?
17:29	OForero	I want to have a different print routine for one of my defined strings
17:41	empt	are there any free but complete book for latest clojure?
17:42	Raynes	The closest thing to a 'book' around is the ociweb tutorial.
17:42	Raynes	That's free, anyway.
17:43	empt	ok I'll check to find if I've looked at it before
17:43	Raynes	Otherwise, you have The Joy of Clojure (7 chapters in the MEAP already).
17:43	Raynes	http://java.ociweb.com/mark/clojure/article.html
17:43	sexpbot	"Object Computing, Inc. - Java News Brief - March 2009"
17:43	Borkdude	empt: I got a free ebook
17:43	empt	hi Borkdude
17:43	Borkdude	empt: from someone on Twitter, let me search his address
17:44	Borkdude	empt: satish.talim@gmail.com, just send him a mail and he'll send you his ebook
17:45	empt	thank you and Raynes
17:45	Borkdude	empt: don't know how good this ebook is, haven't read it
17:46	empt	that's ok thanks
17:48	OForero	is there any way to make println behave differently for a self defined struct_
17:48	OForero	?
17:53	riddochc	OForero: Differently how?
17:54	OForero	I have a stuation were structs reference eachothers .. and if I do println at the REPL ends up in a stack overflow
17:55	OForero	I was wondering if I can then define a custom println (that does not do a deep print) for one of them
17:56	riddochc	Ah, you want to set print-length or print-level
17:57	riddochc	That controls a lot of the printing functions, including println. Generally helpful at the REPL.
17:58	OForero	##
17:59	OForero	do I just def them_
18:03	riddochc	I think you want to use (set! print-length ...)
18:03	riddochc	They're already def'd.
18:11	ihodes	hi all – is anyone familiar with String->java.util.Date->String kinda stuff?
18:13	ihodes	or could point to where i might find some nice info on it?
18:18	ihodes	people are less chatty then they used to be?
18:21	Raynes	At the moment.
18:39	dnolen	ihodes: have you look at the Joda time Clojure wrapper?
18:40	ihodes	I have not–where is that at?
18:40	dnolen	ihodes: http://github.com/clj-sys/clj-time
18:40	ihodes	oh nice, that looks like it may work
18:41	ihodes	thank you very much. i have an additional question, though. i'm having trouble calling static methods in clojure: i (import (java.text.DateFormat)) and then, for example, cannot for the life of me figure out how to call... getTimeZone, for instance.
18:41	ihodes	is there something i'm missing?
18:42	dnolen	DateFormat/getTimeZone
18:42	ihodes	(. DateFormat getTimezone) or (. java.text.DateFormat getTimezone) or (DateFormat/getTimeZone) all don't work
18:42	ihodes	java.lang.NoSuchFieldException: getTimeZone (NO_SOURCE_FILE:17) is what i get
18:45	dnolen	ihodes: getTimeZone is not a static method
18:46	dnolen	try (DateFormat/getDateInstnace)
18:46	ihodes	crap.... i'm sorry then :\ . I'll try that, then
18:47	dnolen	ihodes: (. (DateFormat/getDateInstance) getTimeZone)
18:47	dnolen	works for me
18:47	dnolen	,(. (java.text.DateFormat/getDateInstance) getTimeZone)
18:47	clojurebot	#<ZoneInfo sun.util.calendar.ZoneInfo[id="America/Los_Angeles",offset=-28800000,dstSavings=3600000,useDaylight=true,transitions=185,lastRule=java.util.SimpleTimeZone[id=America/Los_Angeles,offset=-28800000,dstSavings=3600000,useDaylight=true,startYear=0,startMode=3,startMonth=2,startDay=8,startDayOfWeek=1,startTime=7200000,startTimeMode=0,endMode=3,endMonth=10,endDay=1,endDayOfWeek=1,endTime=7200000,endTimeMode=0]]>
18:47	quizme	what is ->> ?
18:48	Borkdude	,(doc ->>)
18:48	clojurebot	"([x form] [x form & more]); Threads the expr through the forms. Inserts x as the last item in the first form, making a list of it if it is not a list already. If there are more forms, inserts the first form as the last item in second form, etc."
18:48	ihodes	works for me! thank you so much
18:48	dnolen	,(->> "last" (str "second") (str "first"))
18:48	clojurebot	"firstsecondlast"
18:50	dnolen	,(macroexpand '(->> "last" (str "second") (str "first")))
18:50	clojurebot	(str "first" (clojure.core/->> "last" (str "second")))
18:50	dnolen	,(macroexpand '(str "first" (clojure.core/->> "last" (str "second"))))
18:50	clojurebot	(str "first" (clojure.core/->> "last" (str "second")))
18:53	leifw	anyone familiar with clj-processing or know where I can find people that do?
18:53	leifw	I'm getting a segfault in X when I try to run one of the examples
18:53	leifw	I could swear I got it working once but never again
18:54	dnolen	liefw: what os are you on?
18:54	leifw	linux
18:55	leifw	ubuntu, kernel is 2.6.32
18:55	leifw	X version is 1.7.6
18:55	dnolen	hmm, I've only tried it on os x
18:55	leifw	dang
18:55	leifw	I really really want this working :-/
18:56	leifw	ooh looks like it's somewhere in the intel drivers
18:56	leifw	blech
18:56	dnolen	fwiw, Penumbra is pretty nice if you want to do interactive graphics and it's known to work on windows/linux/os x
18:56	leifw	ooh I'll have to check that out
18:57	leifw	the eclipse plugin?
18:57	dnolen	http://github.com/ztellman/penumbra
18:58	leifw	aha
18:58	leifw	neato
18:59	dnolen	it's opengl, but penumbra makes it enjoyable/fun, comes with examples of Tetris (< 250 LOC) and Asteroids (< 500 LOC)
18:59	leifw	cool
18:59	leifw	I'll have to try that out
19:00	dnolen	on ubuntu, it "just worked" for me.
19:00	dnolen	well under parallels anyway :)
19:00	somnium	dnolen: what video card?
19:00	dnolen	NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M
19:01	somnium	ah
19:02	somnium	I never suspected open source intel drivers could crash X so often when I got this laptop :/
19:02	quizme	new discovery for me: (for [x (range 2) y (range 3)] [x,y])
19:02	quizme	:)
19:02	quizme	dnolen thanks
19:03	dnolen	quizme: np
19:10	Borkdude	,(for [x (range 10) y (range 5) :when (= y 4) :while (< x y) :let [p (* x y)]] p)
19:10	clojurebot	(0 4 8 12)
19:18	dnolen	I was impressed by this Haskell snippet: let rightTriangles' = [ (a,b,c) \| c <- [1..10], b <- [1..c], a <- [1..b], a^2 + b^2 == c^2, a+b+c == 24] , from learn you a haskell
19:18	dnolen	,(let [r (range 1 11)] (for [c r b r :while (< b c) a r :while (< a b) :when (and (= (+ (* a a) (* b b)) (* c c)) (= (+ a b c) 24))] [a b c]))
19:18	clojurebot	([6 8 10])
19:23	Borkdude	,(for [c (range 1 11) b (range 1 c) a (range 1 b)
19:23	Borkdude	:when (and (= (+ (* a a) (* b b)) (* c c))
19:23	Borkdude	(= (+ a b c) 24))]
19:23	Borkdude	[a,b,c])
19:23	clojurebot	EOF while reading
19:23	Borkdude	damnit
19:24	Borkdude	,(for [c (range 1 11) b (range 1 c) a (range 1 b) :when (and (= (+ (* a a) (* b b)) (* c c)) (= (+ a b c) 24))] [a,b,c])
19:24	clojurebot	([6 8 10])
20:02	riddochc	Hmmm... Var clojure.core/unquote is unbound.
20:09	somnium	,~42
20:09	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalStateException: Var clojure.core/unquote is unbound.
20:10	somnium	,(macroexpand '~42)
20:10	clojurebot	(clojure.core/unquote 42)
20:12	somnium	,(binding [unquote (fn [x] (* x x))] ~42)
20:12	clojurebot	1764
20:21	riddochc	Hm. So it's only bound within a macro's backquoted list, for my purposes. Must be a local function in the macroexpansion, then.
21:07	defn	is it correct to use the term niladic these days?
21:09	durka42	can I set java.library.path for lein repl?
21:11	durka42	got it - $JAVA_OPTS
21:25	somnium	niladic?
21:36	defn	somnium: i believe it comes from APL
21:36	defn	niladic, monadic, dyadic
21:36	defn	(computing) Of an operator or function in a program, having no arguments.
21:37	defn	^-niladic
21:41	pastorn	i wanna try clojure out... is there a .deb somewhere that gives me all i need?
21:44	pastorn	silly me
21:44	TheBusby	Ubuntu 10.04 appears to have a something in the repo, more detail here: http://bit.ly/b1dO1l
21:44	sexpbot	"Clojure Programming/Getting Started - Wikibooks, collection of open-content textbooks"
21:44	pastorn	there was a 'clojure' package (apropos didn't say anything)
21:45	pastorn	in the repl, is there a 'reload' command?
21:47	TheBusby	,(doc load-file)
21:47	clojurebot	"([name]); Sequentially read and evaluate the set of forms contained in the file."
21:49	pastorn	how do you program in clojure? i'm used to mostly doing haskell
21:49	pastorn	so i write som stuff in gvim, alt-tab to the repl; :r to reload and test my new functions
21:49	pastorn	then back to the source file and write more stuff
21:50	pastorn	is that the way you work when programming clojure as well?
21:50	TheBusby	I use emacs, but I think clojurebox does that for Vi
21:50	TheBusby	nmind
21:50	pastorn	TheBusby: nah, i'm pretty comfortable with the unix principle
21:50	TheBusby	the link I provided earlier has a section on setting up clojure and vim
21:50	pastorn	(it should do one thing and do it well)
21:51	pastorn	my editor is my editor and the repl is the repl... also: don't know any of vims window splitting commands
21:52	TheBusby	more details here if you're interested, http://kotka.de/projects/clojure/vimclojure.html
21:52	sexpbot	"Kotka : Projects : Clojure : VimClojure"
22:09	pastorn	hang on here...
22:09	pastorn	(map + [1 2 3] [4 5 6])
22:09	pastorn	that doesn't make sense... that's zipwith
22:12	pastorn	it feels weird that it takes three arguments :/
22:15	tomoj	it's n-ary zipWith :)
22:15	pastorn	haha
22:15	pastorn	there's zipWith as well?
22:16	tomoj	zipWith from haskell I meant
22:16	pastorn	yeah
22:20	pastorn	so where should i start reading to learn clojure? what's good? wikibooks?
22:20	pastorn	(the wikibooks doesn't seem to have a very consistent design :( )
22:20	pastorn	wikibooks articles
22:27	pastorn	TheBusby: i can't get ,(doc load-file) to work
22:27	pastorn	,(doc Test.clj) <-- this doesn't work :(
22:27	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: Test.clj
22:28	pastorn	almost; i get "Unable to resolve var"
22:39	TheBusby	pastorn: does (doc use) work?
22:39	TheBusby	load-file is clojure core, at least in 1.1.0
22:39	pastorn	it seems to print some help stuff
22:40	TheBusby	arg, brb
22:40	pastorn	do i need to declare a module name in the file for this to work?
22:41	pastorn	this is my file: http://paste.lisp.org/display/100334
22:42	pastorn	reload that page now...
22:48	defn	pastorn: how do mean module name?
22:48	defn	as in a namespace?
22:48	pastorn	defn: something like that
22:49	defn	like (ns pastorn.hello-world)
22:49	pastorn	in haskell if you have i.e. Stack.hs, then the first line in that file should be "module Stack where"
22:49	defn	are you planning on reusing your hello [name] function in other places? ;)
22:49	pastorn	so that when you import you write 'import Stack' and not 'import "Stack.hs"'
22:49	defn	pastorn: short answer is: it depends
22:50	pastorn	defn: no, i just wont clojure-repl to reload my file in which i've placed some new functions
22:50	defn	(load-file "myfile.clj")
22:50	pastorn	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: define in this context (Test.clj:7)
22:50	defn	err i think, maybe im thinking elisp
22:52	defn	pastorn: are you using "define" somewhere in your Test.clj?
22:52	pastorn	oh siht
22:52	defn	;)
22:52	pastorn	yay!
22:52	defn	going back to a movie, ill try and check back if you need anything
22:52	defn	ciao
22:52	pastorn	i've been playing around some in DrScheme, so i'm a bit damaged...
22:52	defn	hey no worries
22:52	defn	enjoy your clojure :)
22:53	pastorn	hehe
23:00	pastorn	what is this? no long comments?
23:01	Raynes	pastorn: (comment comment goes here)
23:01	pastorn	haha
23:01	pastorn	nasty :D
23:01	Raynes	You can also comment out individual forms with #_.
23:02	Raynes	But that's usually only useful for debugging.
23:02	pastorn	Raynes: form = (expr) ?
23:02	pastorn	(+ 1 2 #_3) ;; cool
23:03	Raynes	$(println #_"this one just snuck in here." "ohai")
23:03	Raynes	$(println #_(meow) "ohai")
23:03	sexpbot	=> ohai nil
23:03	sexpbot	=> ohai nil
23:03	pastorn	Raynes: what's the $?
23:04	Raynes	It tells sexpbot to evaluate whatever is passed to it in parens. If you need to evaluate something that isn't in parens, you can use $eval (e.g $eval 'meow)
23:04	Raynes	We also have clojurebot, which does evaluation as well with , as the prepend (e.g ,(println "hai"))
23:05	pastorn	eval/apply are the same as the ones in scheme?
23:05	Raynes	Never used Scheme.
23:05	pastorn	looking here: http://java.ociweb.com/mark/clojure/article.html#Syntax
23:05	sexpbot	"Object Computing, Inc. - Java News Brief - March 2009"
23:05	pastorn	there's no lambda?
23:06	Raynes	$(apply + [1 2 3 4 5])
23:06	sexpbot	=> 15
23:06	dysinger	like we need another bot in here :/
23:06	pastorn	in haskell you're able to do 'map (\x -> x + x*x) [1,2,3,4])'
23:06	pastorn	s/)'/'
23:06	Raynes	$((fn [x] (* x x)) 10)
23:06	Raynes	dysinger: Yeah, it's only been in here for around two months now.
23:06	sexpbot	=> 100
23:07	Raynes	pastorn: fn is lambda.
23:07	pastorn	oh, nice
23:07	dysinger	Raynes - why what's the point - we already have had clojurebot for years
23:07	pastorn	$(map (fn [x] (+ x (* x x)) [1 2 3 4 5])
23:07	sexpbot	EOF while reading
23:07	pastorn	$(map (fn [x] (+ x (* x x)) [1 2 3 4 5]))
23:08	sexpbot	DENIED!
23:08	pastorn	:(
23:08	dysinger	annoying
23:08	pastorn	,(map (fn [x] (+ x (* x x)) [1 2 3 4 5]))
23:08	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: core$map
23:08	pastorn	,(map (fn [x] (+ x (* x x))) [1 2 3 4 5])
23:08	clojurebot	(2 6 12 20 30)
23:08	pastorn	there we go :)
23:09	Raynes	dysinger: At least a few people thought the title scraping was useful, and sexpbot does do a few things that clojurebot doesn't. Doesn't matter, I'll take him out of here. I'm tired of all the remarks.
23:09	pastorn	,(map (+ %1 (* %1 %1)) [1 2 3 4 5])
23:09	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: %1 in this context
23:09	pastorn	,(map #(+ %1 (* %1 %1)) [1 2 3 4 5])
23:09	clojurebot	(2 6 12 20 30)
23:10	pastorn	i'll stop spamming now :)
23:10	sexpbot	Bai!
23:10	dysinger	We've all written bots
23:10	dysinger	I have also
23:10	pastorn	can you reload clojure code for running programs like in erlang or scheme?
23:10	dysinger	having several of them in the room is ... not needed
23:10	dnolen	pastorn: yup
23:11	programble	having you in the room is ... not needed
23:11	programble	no offense
23:11	programble	but it is true
23:11	dysinger	lol
23:11	Raynes	dysinger: Until yesterday, nobody seemed to care. Hell, people seemed to like him a little. It's alright. He's gone, wont be coming back.
23:11	Raynes	:)
23:11	programble	so i think your argument proves useless
23:11	pastorn	dnolen: and it doesn't involve weird hacks like in haskell (where you need to import the compiler to make it work)
23:11	pastorn	?
23:12	dysinger	programble: whatever
23:13	dnolen	pastorn: nope. everything you enter in the REPL in Clojure is compiled
23:13	pastorn	dnolen: but what if it's a big nasty function that i need to have in a file?
23:14	pastorn	can the calls to that function be replaced with the new definition on runtime?
23:14	dnolen	pastorn: use an IDE that lets you send only that definition to the REPL
23:14	dnolen	pastorn: yes.
23:14	pastorn	nice :)
23:16	pastorn	you're much friendlier in here than in #scheme :)
23:34	programble	danlarkin and dysinger are butt-buddies, rite?
23:37	programble	dysinger: hello?
23:39	dysinger	programble: ignored
23:39	dysinger	what are you guys ? 12 ?
23:41	programble	dysinger: are you and danlarkin?
23:57	rava	good eve
23:59	rava	any way in emacs/swank-clojure to find out what line in the source file is causing the compile to blow?