#clojure – 2010-05-21

2010-05-21

00:01	Licenser	nice :) now the ident token is faster then the space token
00:05	Licenser	well thank you all for the help so now I got to go to bed
00:15	mmarczyk	Licenser: see you next time :-)
00:15	mmarczyk	(even though it's a bit of a pleonasm ;-))
00:33	mmarczyk	Licenser: got a non-regex solution for (re-find basic-identifier-re some-string) which appears to be twice as fast in some cases, need to squeeze it a bit more :-)
00:34	mmarczyk	(well actually it is partly regex based at this proof-of-concept stage, but it won't stay this way long)
00:47	tomoj	b
00:47	tomoj	oops
01:21	mmarczyk	got it down to up to 16x faster, but I am in fact still using regexes... oh well.
01:22	remleduff	Darn ;)
01:26	mmarczyk	actually, I found a bug
01:26	mmarczyk	so it's not going to be quite that nice :-(
01:47	Blackfoot	can i use :as in (import)? I want to refer to SomeCrazy$InnerClass as just Inner
01:59	mmarczyk	Blackfoot: nope :-(
01:59	mmarczyk	is this for the purpose of calling static methods?
02:00	mmarczyk	or for construction etc. too?
02:00	Blackfoot	mostly a static method and it's enums
02:01	mmarczyk	in this case I think I'll plug an answer I posted on SO
02:01	mmarczyk	maybe it'll be useful to you
02:01	mmarczyk	and I'd love to hear some feedback ("it's insane" etc.)
02:01	Blackfoot	ha, sure
02:02	mmarczyk	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2852133/clojure-vars-and-java-static-methods
02:02	sexpbot	"Clojure vars and Java static methods - Stack Overflow"
02:02	mmarczyk	it's the accepted answer
02:03	mmarczyk	actually it has occurred to me that creating the "gensymed" ns is probably pointless as written there
02:03	mmarczyk	I meant to use a dot in the ns name
02:04	mmarczyk	(should be "adapter.")
02:07	Blackfoot	mmarczyk: i think i understand it, thought not sure how it would work with the enums. since i'm only using it in a few places, i'll probably use the whole name for now, but try it out if usage grows
02:07	Blackfoot	thanks
02:07	mmarczyk	sure
03:07	bartj	hi
03:08	bartj	can anyone please tell me the difference between doseq and for in clojure?
03:09	bartj	er is anyone there?
03:10	bartj	hello?
03:10	clojurebot	BUENOS DING DONG DIDDLY DIOS, fRaUline bartj
03:11	technomancy	bartj: for is lazy, doseq is used for side effects
03:17	bartj	(defn t[i] (for [j i] (println j) (inc i))) - how is this wrong?
03:17	bartj	(defn t [i] (for [j i] (println j)))
03:18	technomancy	bartj: "i" would need to be a seq or "for" can't work on it
03:18	technomancy	and you can't inc a seq
03:18	technomancy	,((fn [i] (for [j i] (println j) (inc j))) [1 2 3])
03:18	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: core$for
03:18	technomancy	,((fn [i] (for [j i] (do (println j) (inc j)))) [1 2 3])
03:18	clojurebot	(2 3 4)
03:19	technomancy	,(map inc [1 2 3]) ; <= essentially the same thing
03:19	clojurebot	(2 3 4)
03:22	danlarkin	clojurebot: donkeyballs
03:22	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
03:22	bartj	well that actually returns: (1 \n 2 \n 2 3 \n3 4)
03:22	bartj	"\n" = equals
03:22	bartj	,((fn [i] (for [j i] (do (inc j)))) [1 2 3])
03:22	clojurebot	(2 3 4)
03:23	technomancy	bartj: I think the output getting interleaved with the return value is confusing you
03:24	bartj	technomancy: yes
03:24	bartj	technomancy: which is why I removed it :)
03:24	technomancy	you don't need the "do" if you're only performing one function call in the body of the "for"
03:25	bartj	technomancy: yes, thanks
03:25	bartj	is the usage of doseq instead of "for" purely idiomatic - to indicate that side-effects occur?
03:27	technomancy	bartj: it's more than just a style thing--doseq returns nil, while for returns a lazy sequence
03:27	technomancy	so side-effects simply don't happen with "for" until the return value gets forced
03:29	bartj	technomancy: thank you so much
03:29	technomancy	sure
03:31	bartj	technomancy: I was confused because the doc string for "for" does not mention anything about the return value. :)
03:50	vegai	hmm, isn't there a simple split function in core?
03:50	vegai	(split "a,b,c,d" ",") => [a b c d] sorta thing
03:51	bartj	vegai: you need to use ".split"
03:51	cgrand	,(vec (.split "a,b,c,d" ","))
03:51	clojurebot	["a" "b" "c" "d"]
03:52	cgrand	,(vec (.split #"," "a,b,c,d"))
03:52	clojurebot	["a" "b" "c" "d"]
03:52	vegai	ah, through Java?
03:52	bartj	yeah - atleast that is what I know
03:53	vegai	thanks
03:53	vegai	I'm finally starting to regret that I ignored Java for so many years..
03:55	vegai	another one: strip?
03:55	vegai	(strip " abc ") => "abc"
03:55	Chousuke	vegai: you only need to learn to read javadoc :(
03:55	Chousuke	:) even :P
03:56	vegai	yea..
03:56	Chousuke	anyway, there's the .trim method
03:56	Chousuke	http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/String.html
03:56	sexpbot	"String (Java Platform SE 6)"
03:56	Chousuke	Those are good to know
03:56	vegai	ah, great. I'll read that
03:57	technomancy	slime inspector will show you the methods at least: C-c S-i
03:58	Chousuke	technomancy: is that a pun of CSI by accident or intentionally? :P
03:58	technomancy	CSI?
03:58	technomancy	oh, the television show?
03:58	technomancy	heh
03:58	technomancy	probably coincidence; I think slime is pretty old
03:59	eevar2	i for inspect, not investigate ;)
03:59	eevar2	or whatever the csi folks do
04:00	Chousuke	Slime isn't as powerful as the CSI guys' computer systems though.
04:00	Chousuke	I think they zoomed in behind a corner in one episode
04:00	technomancy	yeah, it needs to get ported to visual basic
04:01	technomancy	so it can be used to create a GUI to track IP addresses
04:01	eevar2	lolpics.se has a few nice csi pictures
04:01	eevar2	among a lot of nsfw stuff ;)
04:03	rava	There's gotta be a cleaner/more idiomatic way of doing this: http://gist.github.com/408610
04:03	rava	Any thoughts?
04:03	eevar2	http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/off-topic-forum/151964-csi-lol-pics.html
04:03	sexpbot	"CSI lol pics.. - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)"
04:04	Chousuke	rava: not using a struct map would be more idiomatic, unless you really need one :)
04:05	Chousuke	rava: also, calling vec on the file list is unnecessary.
04:06	Chousuke	rava: other than that, I think the code
04:06	Chousuke	is perfectly idiomatic
04:06	defn	^what he said.
04:06	defn	just use a plain vector of maps, no need for the struct-map, unless of course there is ;)
04:06	rava	more like habbit :)
04:07	rava	i'm used to having to declare some kind of data type
04:07	Chousuke	heh
04:08	Chousuke	in Clojure, data types declare themselves ;P
04:08	rava	still getting used to that :)
04:08	rava	hrm, what's the syntax for this: (map #{:fname (.getName %)} (.listFiles (File. enc-files-dir)))
04:09	defn	oops
04:09	bartj	, (doc file-map)
04:09	clojurebot	excusez-moi
04:09	defn	you don't want #{}
04:09	defn	you want #()
04:09	rdsr	Also would file-seq on path would be better that (.listFiles ...) ???
04:09	rava	i'm all sorts of hazy on using the % for args
04:09	defn	rdsr: file-seq will recurse subdirectories IIRC
04:09	Chousuke	#{} is set syntax
04:09	rava	erk
04:10	Chousuke	#() is for function shortcuts :)
04:10	rava	lol yes indeed it is../doh
04:10	rdsr	yes
04:20	mmarczyk	you don't need the vec around .fileList
04:21	mmarczyk	oh, Chousuke mentioned that already... noticed the moment I hit ret :-/
04:27	rava	Anyone have trouble compiling a clj file in emacs with slime-compile-file?
04:30	defn	not I
04:30	defn	if that's C-k
04:30	defn	I never use the M-x slime-compile-file
04:31	mmarczyk	an alternate version: http://gist.github.com/408622
04:31	defn	rava: im still working on your code
04:32	defn	mmarczyk: i like the destructuring inside the fn inside the fn
04:32	defn	;)
04:32	mmarczyk	:-)
04:32	defn	i was using a ref in my version
04:32	defn	not as nice as yours :\
04:33	defn	mmarczyk: the file-info-extractors thing is beautiful too
04:33	defn	really nice
04:33	rava	indeed
04:35	mmarczyk	:-)
04:35	defn	mmarczyk: im trying to improve on that, but it's just too good
04:35	defn	damn you, damn you to hell!
04:35	defn	rava: do you see how it all works
04:36	mmarczyk	:-D
04:36	rava	defn: file-info-extractors is fairly straight forward
04:36	mmarczyk	I had a version based on comp, partial, zipmap & juxt, but I thought it was ridiculous
04:37	mmarczyk	it's actually shorter, though
04:37	rava	defn: i THINK i've eval'ed the map reduce call, its a bit of black magic for my newbness
04:37	mmarczyk	updated the gist to include it, for weirdness' sake
04:38	defn	rava: do you understand the destructuring
04:39	vegai	mm, split works weirdly
04:39	mmarczyk	plus you could put type hints on % -- #^java.io.File % -- to avoid reflection...
04:39	vegai	,(vec (.split #"," "aoe, aoecrh,aho,a"))
04:39	clojurebot	["aoe" " aoecrh" "aho" "a"]
04:39	vegai	oh?
04:39	rava	yar the type hints are a nice touch
04:39	vegai	,(vec (.split #"\|" "aoe\| aoecrh\|aho\|a"))
04:39	clojurebot	["" "a" "o" "e" "\|" " " "a" "o" "e" "c" "r" "h" "\|" "a" "h" "o" "\|" "a"]
04:39	vegai	aha!
04:40	vegai	,(vec (.split #"\\|" "aoe\| aoecrh\|aho\|a"))
04:40	clojurebot	["aoe" " aoecrh" "aho" "a"]
04:40	vegai	ah, I see :)
04:40	mmarczyk	ohhh, so I have hinted % in the gist :-)
04:40	mmarczyk	thought I haven't
04:40	defn	it makes it a bit less concise
04:41	mmarczyk	true
04:41	defn	but it's good auto-documentation :)
04:41	rava	lol, that last one is fairly nuts
04:43	defn	a nice lesson though
04:43	rava	indeed
04:43	defn	the partial zipmap [:foo :bar] is really concise
04:43	rava	the partial zipmap into the rest of the function calls is so very slick
04:44	defn	;)
04:46	mmarczyk	that's the one thing I really miss from Haskell
04:46	mmarczyk	all functions taking one argument
04:46	mmarczyk	of course as soon as I'm actually writing Haskell
04:46	mmarczyk	I hate the fact that it's not a Lisp :-P
04:48	defn	i cant write code in other languages anymore
04:48	defn	i start every single bit of code with (
04:48	defn	especially in ruby:
04:49	mmarczyk	yeah :-)
04:49	defn	(class Foo (def initialize (puts "omg")))
04:49	mmarczyk	I don't recall ever typing an infix expression in a Lisp
04:49	mmarczyk	except maybe when mixing up repls with small prompts
04:49	defn	the incanter guys made it possible to do infix
04:50	mmarczyk	but I actually try to write prefix in other languages occasionally
04:50	defn	mmarczyk: how do you do prefix in other languages
04:50	defn	like ruby...how would you do that?
04:50	mmarczyk	oh, you just do it
04:50	mmarczyk	then the compiler complains ;-)
04:50	defn	ohhh, heh
04:51	mmarczyk	Haskell is seriously cool in many ways, though
04:51	mmarczyk	so I get over the syntax eventually, if I give it some time
04:51	mmarczyk	the effect seems regrettably to wear off between sittings ;-)
04:51	defn	i use xmonad -- i will go in and tinker with my config file -- i find some of the syntax awfully ugly, and the monadic stuff is a headache
04:52	mmarczyk	XMonad!
04:52	mmarczyk	part of my plan for the summer is to give that a shot
04:52	rava	odd...
04:52	defn	oh man -- do it. you will never look back.
04:52	mmarczyk	heh, I feel like you may be right :-)
04:52	defn	mmarczyk: recipe for success: urxvtd + urxvtc + xmonad
04:52	mmarczyk	but, um, what about a Web browser, say?
04:53	mmarczyk	wouldn't it be impractical to have that in the left half of the screen?
04:53	defn	you can resize
04:53	rava	anyone around familiar with compojure?
04:53	defn	M-h makes the left side smaller, M-l does the opposite
04:54	mmarczyk	rava: not really, but I might remember relevant SO questions and the like
04:54	defn	mmarczyk: you can also define layouts for specific windows, so when you start firfox it locks it into the position you prefer
04:54	defn	mmarczyk: you can't even imagine all the stuff you can do with it :)
04:54	rava	xmonad is amazingly cool
04:54	mmarczyk	defn: ohhh, that sounds really good
04:54	rava	check out stumpwm aswell
04:55	defn	mmarczyk: http://devinwalters.com/?page=3
04:55	sexpbot	"'(Devin Walters)"
04:55	rava	like xmonad but written common-lisp
04:55	defn	xmonad will be undoubtedly faster
04:55	rava	(GET "/files" []
04:55	rava	(str (print-json (file-list enc-files-dir))))
04:55	mmarczyk	wow -- wow -- wow :-)
04:55	defn	ive used a lot of tiled wms, and xmonad was the only one that kept up with me
04:55	mmarczyk	thanks, for both pointers :-)
04:55	rava	that should be rendered to the :body no?
04:56	rava	it's printing to the log for some reason
04:56	defn	mmarczyk: actually that's sort of useless without something else ill show you...
04:57	mmarczyk	defn: oh? :-)
04:57	rava	actually, lemme bug #compojure on this one
04:57	spariev	,(doc print-json)
04:57	clojurebot	"clojure.contrib.json.write/print-json;[[x]]; Prints x as JSON. Nil becomes JSON null. Keywords become strings, without the leading colon. Maps become JSON objects, all other collection types become JSON arrays. Java arrays become JSON arrays. Unicode characters in strings are escaped as \\uXXXX. Numbers print as with pr."
04:57	defn	mmarczyk: i have a cheat sheet so you can see what does what at a glance
04:57	defn	just have to find it
04:58	mmarczyk	defn: cool!
04:58	spariev	,(print-json [1 2 3])
04:58	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: print-json in this context
04:58	defn	brb
04:59	spariev	,(clojure.contrib.json.write/print-json [1 2 3])
04:59	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.contrib.json.write
04:59	mmarczyk	rava: last time I tried Compojure was before 0.4, and then I believe GET expected to get the whole html
04:59	mmarczyk	not just the part to go in body
04:59	rava	i just want to return a json string
04:59	mmarczyk	yeah
04:59	mmarczyk	no idea why it would print to log instead :-(
05:00	mmarczyk	and where does print-json come from?
05:00	rava	clojoure.contrib.json.write
05:00	spariev	hm, it looks like print-json just, well, print it to strout
05:00	mmarczyk	aha!
05:00	mmarczyk	:-)
05:01	rava	that doesn't seem to make sense, i mean wouldn't that function make more sense to return a string?
05:01	spariev	rava: try something like (with-out-str (clojure.contrib.json.write/print-json [1 2 3]))
05:02	mmarczyk	or actually
05:03	mmarczyk	maybe try write-json
05:03	mmarczyk	with a (java.io.StringWriter.) argument
05:04	spariev	btw, I'm using clj-json, wrapper around jackson java lib, it kinda faster by my unscientific measurements
05:04	rava	where are you getting write-json?
05:05	mmarczyk	hm, maybe that's a new thing from 1.2
05:05	mmarczyk	json-str then
05:05	mmarczyk	much simpler
05:06	mmarczyk	and it's in 1.2 also... hm
05:06	vegai	will it be horribly slow to add to a vector one by one in a (dosync...)?
05:07	rava	mmarczyk: print-json is in 1.1 aswell
05:07	Chousuke	vegai: probably.
05:08	mmarczyk	rava: yeah
05:08	mmarczyk	json-str should return as string
05:08	rava	there any way to see what threads are running in a repl and kill it?
05:08	mmarczyk	what print-json prints
05:08	mmarczyk	so that's what you'd want to put in your route, I guess
05:08	rava	i've a jetty instance running now in my emacs repl and trying to find a way to kill and restart the instance
05:09	mmarczyk	have you got it bound to a Var or sth?
05:10	Chousuke	vegai: or rather, it'll be as fast as adding to a vector one by one, plus the overhead of the STM
05:10	mmarczyk	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2706044/how-do-i-stop-jetty-server-in-clojure
05:10	sexpbot	"How do I stop jetty server in clojure? - Stack Overflow"
05:11	rava	hmm..
05:11	rava	(GET "/files" []
05:11	rava	((json-str (file-list enc-files-dir)))
05:11	rava	is the route now
05:11	rava	and i'm getting this in log: java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
05:12	spariev	looks like you've got one paren more than needed in ((json-str ...
05:12	mmarczyk	rava: one level of parens too many
05:12	mmarczyk	right.
05:12	rava	doh, this is what happens when you're running off of 2 hours of sleep 12 hours ago
05:13	mmarczyk	:-)
05:16	rava	woot
05:16	rava	its silly how long i've been hacking at this ...
05:16	vegai	(for [line (read-lines file)] (println line)) => no output
05:17	vegai	what am I doing wrong there
05:17	Chousuke	for is lazy
05:17	Chousuke	use doseq
05:17	vegai	aah
05:18	vegai	thank you, again
05:23	bartj	Chousuke: but, the "control" does return after executing "for"? so why is the output of "for" not printed?
05:26	Lajla	,((set \a \b \c \d) \b)
05:26	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: core$set
05:26	Lajla	,((set "abcd") \b)
05:26	clojurebot	\b
05:26	mmarczyk	bartj: presumably it's being run from a script, in which case return values for expressions aren't printed by default
05:27	vegai	,(.trim " a bc \n ")
05:27	clojurebot	"a bc"
05:27	vegai	,(map .trim [" a bc \n "])
05:27	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: .trim in this context
05:27	bartj	mmarczyk: ok, is there any way to print them then?
05:27	mmarczyk	or possibly it's a non-final expression in a function
05:28	mmarczyk	I mean, a "do"
05:28	mmarczyk	possibly implicit
05:28	mmarczyk	bartj: sure, wrap them in print :-)
05:28	mmarczyk	if you really want to see the Java-ish string representation, then (print (.toString ...))
05:28	mmarczyk	,(.toString (lazy-seq nil))
05:28	clojurebot	"clojure.lang.LazySeq@0"
05:29	vegai	ah, I need to wrap .trim inside a clojure trim
05:29	vegai	what's the reason for this again?
05:30	mmarczyk	.foo-style symbols are treated specially only in the operator position
05:31	Chousuke	mmarczyk: you can use str instead of .toString
05:32	mmarczyk	Chousuke: ah, I thought it would force the seq
05:32	mmarczyk	not so, apparently
05:32	Chousuke	it's just a wrapper for toString/StringBuilder :)
05:33	mmarczyk	yup, good catch, thanks :-)
05:40	rava	thanks for the help. rest easy everyone
05:50	LauJensen	Hi all
05:50	esj	Good Morning Mr Jensen
05:50	unfo-	(hi)
06:02	angerman	When using the decomp-eigenvalue function from incanter, I get two lists one with the vectors and one with the values.
06:02	angerman	How would I get the vector that corresponds to the absolute maximum of the values?
06:03	angerman	basically some index-return on the max function
06:03	angerman	e.g. vectors = ( v1 v2 v3 v4 ) values = ( 1 2 4 3 )
06:04	angerman	ahh. I've an idea, I compute the maximum, interleave them and filter for the one with the maximum value. and then run take 1 on them
06:17	hoeck	,(apply max-key second (map vector [:v1 :v2 :v3 :v4] [1 3 4 2]))
06:17	clojurebot	[:v3 4]
06:18	hoeck	but I don't like the packing together the pairs in those solutions
06:19	angerman	well,
06:20	vegai	is there a nice way to update a map so that either a new value is inserted
06:20	vegai	or a new value is computed based on the old value if it exists
06:20	Chousuke	vegai: update-in
06:20	Chousuke	(update-in {:a 1} [:a] inc). though you need to handle the nil case separately
06:22	Chousuke	you can define a function called fnil like so: (defn fnil [f val] (fn [x] (if-not (nil? x) (f x) val))) and then do (update-in m [:key] (fnil inc 0))
06:22	vegai	ok...
06:23	vegai	and how to coerce a string into a number?
06:23	Chousuke	what kind of a number? :)
06:23	angerman	hoeck: yep, that seems to work, though it takes the last (if multiple ones with the same key) ...
06:23	angerman	still kinda ugly :D
06:23	Chousuke	You can use the java static methods: Integer/parseInt etc.
06:23	vegai	Caused by: java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
06:24	vegai	to make this go away :)
06:24	vegai	yeah, that might work
06:25	Chousuke	I still wonder why fnil is not in core. it's very useful.
06:38	LauJensen	silly name though Chousuke, "fnil" :)
06:47	mmarczyk	http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/msg/f251cfd9baab440a
06:47	mmarczyk	:-)
06:47	mmarczyk	hi Lau
06:50	mmarczyk	I've been looking at "Approaching Productivity" again (apparently you're really onto sth with that post ;-)) and noticed that you're not using -> / ->> in your elisp! :-)
06:50	mmarczyk	http://gist.github.com/408702
06:51	mmarczyk	there. I also have -> & ->> written as r5rs macros somewhere
06:52	mmarczyk	I can't imagine how I lived without these two.
06:56	defn	wait, what's fnil?
06:57	mmarczyk	see above
06:57	mmarczyk	or click the link ;-)
07:00	vegai	.split is weird for working differently based on the type of the first argument
07:00	vegai	,(vec (.split #"," "1,2"))
07:00	clojurebot	["1" "2"]
07:00	vegai	,(vec (.split "1,2" ","))
07:00	clojurebot	["1" "2"]
07:00	vegai	java limitation?
07:01	vegai	or what...
07:04	mmarczyk	(.split foo ...) means "call method split on object foo with args ..."
07:04	mmarczyk	java.util.regex.Pattern has a difference implementation to that of java.lang.String
07:04	mmarczyk	different.
07:07	LauJensen	mmarczyk: hey, sorry for the late reply, my highlighter didn't pick up 'Lau' for some reason
07:07	LauJensen	odd
07:08	LauJensen	ah cool
07:08	mmarczyk	np :-)
07:16	LauJensen	In java terms, what is for(; ;) ?
07:18	hoeck	like while true { }
07:18	hoeck	an infinite loop
07:18	LauJensen	k
07:18	LauJensen	thx
07:19	LauJensen	Sure is nice to see Clojure atoms based on sun.misc.Unsafe, titled "The Unsafe service"
08:03	defn	mmarczyk: approaching productivity?
08:04	defn	mmarczyk: ah nevermind, you were referring to LauJensen's post
08:04	LauJensen	Chousuke: ping
08:09	Chousuke	LauJensen: pong
08:09	LauJensen	Chousuke: Im thinking of picking up Magit again and was wondering if you would share your top-10 hotkeys, workflow tricks etc ?
08:11	Chousuke	LauJensen: my use of magit is really simple. I mostly just use s/u for stage/unstage and tab to expand files to chunk view so I can stage individual chunks. and then I just commit and sometimes push/change branches
08:12	Chousuke	oh, and k is useful for deleting trash files in the status view as well
08:12	Chousuke	I haven't even tried to do anything more complicated with magit like rebases
08:12	Chousuke	I'm still more comfortable using the git command line UI for those
08:13	LauJensen	tcrayford: in magit?
08:13	tcrayford	nah, command line
08:13	tcrayford	-i is essential
08:13	LauJensen	Chousuke: Ok cool, commit is C-c C-c ? and push / pull is ?
08:13	tcrayford	LauJensen: C-h m describes the current mode, then just search for magi
08:13	tcrayford	*magit
08:14	Chousuke	actually "c" commits in the status view
08:14	bozhidar	P is push
08:14	bozhidar	F is pull
08:14	LauJensen	tcrayford: the reason Im asking Chousuke is to avoid the docs and learn first hand from a user
08:14	Chousuke	C-c C-c is just when you're finished typing the message
08:14	LauJensen	Ah ok, Egg copied that bit
08:15	LauJensen	Thanks a lot Chousuke and bozhidar , I'll give it a whirl :)
08:15	Chousuke	if you use menu mode in emacs you can get pretty far by just looking through the magit menus
08:16	bozhidar	no menus for me :-)
08:16	Chousuke	LauJensen: it's also useful to bind a key to 'magit-status
08:17	Chousuke	LauJensen: I have meta-f12
08:17	LauJensen	F2 is all fired up and ready to go :)
08:17	Chousuke	also I apparently have set magit-save-some-buffers to nil
08:18	LauJensen	Chousuke: Isnt it desirable to have all buffers save once you pull up the status view ?
08:18	Chousuke	well, that depends
08:18	Chousuke	I switch over to the status view so often that it just annoys me
08:20	bozhidar	I have advised switch-to-buffer to save my buffers at switch anyways
08:20	bozhidar	I'm too paranoid about losing changes
08:20	bartj	what is the difference between "->" and "->>"
08:21	LauJensen	bartj: thread as second argument, or last argument
08:21	bartj	,(doc ->>)
08:21	clojurebot	"([x form] [x form & more]); Threads the expr through the forms. Inserts x as the last item in the first form, making a list of it if it is not a list already. If there are more forms, inserts the first form as the last item in second form, etc."
08:21	LauJensen	(-> 5 (+ 2)) = (+ 5 2), (->> 5 (+ 2)) = (+ 2 5)
08:21	tcrayford	,(-> 1 (/ 2))
08:21	clojurebot	1/2
08:21	tcrayford	,(->> 1 (/ 2))
08:21	clojurebot	2
08:23	tcrayford	haha
08:23	tcrayford	`gut status`
08:24	bartj	, (-> 5 (+ 2))
08:24	clojurebot	7
08:24	LauJensen	,(print (str \$ "(-> 5 (+ 2))"))
08:24	clojurebot	$(-> 5 (+ 2))
08:24	sexpbot	result: 7
08:25	bartj	, (->> 5 (+ 2))
08:25	clojurebot	7
08:25	bartj	, (--> 5 (* 2) (* 3))
08:25	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: --> in this context
08:25	bozhidar	for plus the order doesn't really matter
08:26	bartj	, (->> 5 (* 2) (* 3))
08:26	clojurebot	30
08:26	LauJensen	bozhidar: I know, just thought it would be fun to let clojurebot start off sexpbot
08:26	bartj	, (-> 5 (* 2) (* 3))
08:26	clojurebot	30
08:27	bartj	, (-> 5 (- 2) (- 3))
08:27	clojurebot	0
08:27	bartj	, (->> 5 (- 2) (- 3))
08:27	clojurebot	6
08:27	bozhidar	LauJensen: I noticed your intent, I was saying this because of bartj experiments
08:27	LauJensen	ah
08:27	LauJensen	bartj: there's also tryclojure.org I think
08:27	bozhidar	and SLIME of course ;-)
08:28	bozhidar	a SLIME REPL I meant
08:30	bartj	, (-> 5 (- 2))
08:30	clojurebot	3
08:31	bartj	, (->> 5 (- 2))
08:31	clojurebot	-3
08:31	bozhidar	bartj: don't flood the channel with your experiments...
08:32	LauJensen	defn: wow, cool way to waste your life :)
08:32	defn	LauJensen: :) Just started on it -- I had never heard of Malbolge. I have a feeling this will take me a long..long time. Very interesting though...
08:32	bozhidar	defn: you should proceed with BrainFuck :-)
08:33	defn	bozhidar: Malbolge is way...way harder.
08:33	defn	(IMO)
08:33	bozhidar	defn: you're probably right, I just remember brainfuck was created for a similar purpose
08:34	defn	Malbolge was so difficult to understand when it arrived that it took two years for the first Malbolge program to appear. The program was not even written by a human being: it was generated by a beam search algorithm designed by Andrew Cooke and implemented in Lisp.
08:34	defn	^lol^
08:34	bozhidar	hahaha
08:34	LauJensen	defn: There's a 99 bottles of beer on the wall program written in Malbolge
08:34	bartj	thanks guys for explaining "->" and "->>"
08:35	defn	LauJensen: no way! Is it in that 99bottles github repo?
08:35	LauJensen	http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-malbolge-995.html
08:35	sexpbot	"99 Bottles of Beer \| Language Malbolge"
08:35	defn	Oh...my...God...
08:35	LauJensen	but it looks like a Perl version, just with changed names
08:35	bartj	is there any use-case (experiment) you can think of for "->>"
08:35	defn	LauJensen: yeah that looks awfully perl-esque
08:36	tcrayford	bartj: if you're nesting lots of filter/map/reduce calls, ->> is useful
08:36	LauJensen	,(->> (range 10) (filter odd?) (map inc))
08:36	clojurebot	(2 4 6 8 10)
08:36	defn	I wonder if that crypto puzzle outside of the NSA could be solved with malbolge...
08:36	defn	Krypto, is it?
08:37	LauJensen	Malbolge, much like Perl, does not solve problems it creates them
08:37	tcrayford	I find that that above form easier to read than the nested version
08:37	defn	LauJensen: chuckle
08:37	defn	tcrayford: really? I rather like the nested version to be honest...
08:37	tcrayford	defn: I prefer using ->> a lot of the time
08:38	defn	tcrayford: I write everything nested, and then i use clojure-refactoring where it makes sense ;)
08:38	tcrayford	defn: you're actually using clojure-refactoring on stuff? cool.
08:38	bartj	can some one tell me why I cannot do this: "->>"
08:39	bartj	I get a "Unable to resolve symbol" on my system
08:39	tcrayford	you just entered ->> at the repl?
08:39	bartj	do I need to check the version of my clojure installation?
08:39	bartj	I mean on my system
08:39	tcrayford	bartj: use clojure-version
08:39	bartj	:major 1
08:39	tcrayford	and minor?
08:40	defn	tcrayford: yeah i include it on all my little projects -- it's cool to use it on code i wrote all nested that contains java interop
08:40	defn	it's like...oh yeah.../that's/ what I meant
08:40	tcrayford	defn: are you unit testing that? I know refactoring-mode blows up occasionally
08:41	defn	tcrayford: it does occasionally explode and delete the preceding sexp or some craziness, but that's what C-_ is for :)
08:41	bartj	:minor 0
08:41	bartj	{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 0, :incremental 0, :qualifier ""}
08:41	defn	->> isn't in 1.0 is it?
08:41	tcrayford	defn: if you find stuff when it does eplode (and you're ok posting the code somewhere), then message me on github with what broke
08:42	tcrayford	nope
08:42	defn	that's a 1.1.0 isn't it?
08:42	tcrayford	pretty sure
08:42	defn	yeah
08:42	bartj	so I need to upgrade that's all, right?
08:42	tcrayford	defn: I'm more than welcome for bug reports, apart from those that involve the newline problem
08:43	defn	tcrayford: yeah i'll definitely do that, i should have been doing that all along, but i assumed you were aware, and i had been using your major mode which you stated you were trying to boil down to a minor mode so I figured it was just known beta limitations
08:44	tcrayford	defn: the other thing is that I'm considering moving refactoring-mode so that it changes files on disk instead of doing stuff with emacs. You got any thoughts on that?
08:45	defn	well, like I said, being able to just step back and undo in case something naughty happens is nice, and it's neat to see how something will look threaded and then just step back out of it
08:45	defn	i think for certain operations disk probably makes more sense, but for others maybe not, you know?
08:45	tcrayford	defn: aye. The problem with doing stuff on disk is that I'd need to rework how undo works
08:46	bartj	tcrayford: I just need to upgrade right?
08:46	defn	bartj: yes
08:46	defn	to 1.1.0
08:46	bartj	cool, thanks
08:46	tcrayford	defn: I'm considering doing it for all the refactorings, to get rid of the newline problem
08:46	defn	tcrayford: im assuming that's where, wherever a \n exists, it explodes?
08:46	tcrayford	defn: yeah
08:47	tcrayford	it doesn't explode hugely, it just prints the \n as an actual newline in emacs
08:47	defn	that's sort of a surprise that you cant get around that
08:48	defn	what's the issue in making that work correctly?
08:48	defn	(if you dont mind me asking)
08:48	tcrayford	how I move data between emacs and clojure
08:48	defn	ahhh, do you remove the \n's and treat it like a one-liner sexp?
08:48	tcrayford	go look at the tests
08:48	defn	looking now...
08:50	tcrayford	the real downside of disk stuff is that I'd have to work out some system of stubbing out the filesystem AND namespaces so that I could test it. I'd hate to not have tests for this kinda stuff :/
08:50	defn	yeah tests here are crucial
08:52	tcrayford	and the whole having undo be a seperate function thing :/
08:52	defn	yeah, makes the problem harder... refactoring libraries are /hard/
08:52	defn	you're a braver man than me
08:52	tcrayford	heh, I've been putting off doing the rename refactoring for ages because of this
08:53	defn	hehe, yeah i knew someone who was working on a refactoring library for ruby, and he got rename done, but...that's it
08:53	defn	lol
08:53	tcrayford	renames are damn near impossible in ruby anyway
08:54	defn	ive often wondered if turning ruby into s-exps would make refactoring "easier"
08:54	tcrayford	people have done it, but its still pretty much impossible in certain situations
08:54	defn	yeah
08:55	tcrayford	like, given three classes, A B & C, where A & B both have method "foo", and class C calls "foo" somewhere. If you want to rename foo from inside C, how do you know to rename A or B
08:56	defn	gotta follow those singletons to hell and back
08:57	defn	but the context there could change everything, sure
08:57	tcrayford	yep
09:00	tcrayford	defn: atm I'm going to work on having rename-fn refactor to disk, and see how that goes
09:00	defn	tcrayford: so without knowing how all the pieces fit together, could a "perfect" anti-pprint library of some sort be useful?
09:01	defn	in order to get it into a more malleable form prior to transform?
09:01	tcrayford	maybe
09:02	tcrayford	I think clojure.pprint works well enough for me right now
09:02	defn	i just look at what little ive done with the pprint lib for reformating long one-line sexps
09:02	defn	and i wonder about doing the opposite
09:02	tcrayford	what I really need is a clojure-reader that tags every sexp with metadata of offset from the start of the sexp (in the string)
09:03	defn	yell at hiredman and Chousuke :)
09:03	tcrayford	mm?
09:03	defn	ive just been told they're the reader gurus
09:03	tcrayford	I think its a lot of work, so meh for now
09:04	defn	perhaps they'd have a suggestion to some successful end
09:04	tcrayford	perhaps
09:04	tcrayford	chouser showed me how to use the compiler to get all bound vars out of a sexp the other day, is pretty cool
09:05	defn	tcrayford: yeah, either way, i have to say: great work. these are the sorts of projects (refactoring) that can make a tremendous difference in a language.
09:05	defn	tcrayford: whoa. that is cool.
09:05	defn	that's mad scientist talk, even.
09:05	defn	:)
09:05	tcrayford	defn: the problem is that you have to use eval, and that makes it pretty messy
09:05	bartj	one newbie question: why is it called "s-expression", I always thought clojure statements were just "expressions"
09:06	defn	bartj: bartj http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-expression
09:06	sexpbot	"S-expression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"
09:06	Chousuke	I think technically clojure expressions are a superset of s-exprs
09:06	tcrayford	seeing as they use things other than lists
09:07	chouser	tcrayford: wait, what requires using 'eval'?
09:07	tcrayford	chouser: that compiler analysis thing used eval
09:07	tcrayford	,(->> (clojure.lang.Compiler/analyze clojure.lang.Compiler$C/EVAL
09:07	tcrayford	'(let [a 3 b 4] a)) .fexpr .methods first .locals keys (map #(.sym
09:07	tcrayford	%)))
09:07	clojurebot	EOF while reading
09:07	tcrayford	fail
09:08	chouser	that's not using eval
09:08	tcrayford	so when I run it, why do I get a warning about replacing vars in whatever namespace I run it in?
09:08	chouser	ah. yes, well...
09:08	tcrayford	if its analysing a `def` form
09:08	defn	btw, maybe this is a ridiculous question considering how long ago it was, but are there any videos of McCarthy's lecture when he presented lisp?
09:09	defn	like of the actual black and white presentation?
09:09	chouser	The compiler analysis phase does define vars, though it doesn't bind any values to them.
09:09	tcrayford	chouser: right, which ended up being problematic a lot of the time
09:09	chouser	I can believe that. hmph.
09:10	chouser	you can bind ns to something throw-away...
09:10	chouser	meh. I wonder if anything cleaner can be done for c-in-c.
09:10	tcrayford	I hope so
09:11	tcrayford	refactoring-mode does something similar (but I do the analysis myself, using recursion), which would be much better done via talking to the compiler
09:11	chouser	I believe it's done so that the definition of the var can refer to the var being defined.
09:12	chouser	but ... actually, I wonder if that's even necessary anymore.
09:13	tcrayford	I'm looking forward to c-in-c for this kinda stuff, should make it a bit easier to understand
09:13	chouser	yes
09:13	chouser	I think the next step, or at least the one I'd like to see, is a tool to convert a CompilerExpr tree to a tree of defrecord objects
09:14	tcrayford	are there actual plans for c-in-c yet, or is thinking about that on hold until 1.2 is released?
09:14	chouser	specifically, a tree of records that rhickey approves as being the official target for cinc when it is implemented.
09:15	chouser	once such a converter exists (and its output documented), work could proceed independently on both a analyzer producing that format using clojure instead of java code, and also various tools using that tree
09:16	defn	tcrayford: i know there's been talk about c-in-c for the last few months -- specifically i remember rich or someone close to the action saying "soon"
09:16	chouser	tools that could include emitters for other host platforms, lint-like tools, other code analysis tools, etc.
09:16	tcrayford	yep. I'm interested in writing a lint tool as well
09:18	chouser	the only reason I'm not working on a converter is because I'm supposed^W working on a book.
09:18	tcrayford	the joy of clojure has been a pretty good read so far though
09:18	chouser	great, glad you're enjoying it.
09:21	defn	chouser: ditto to tcrayford's comment -- lots of the right kind of depth
09:21	tcrayford	chouser: also I'm finding on lisp to be really good, even if it is in common lisp
09:21	chouser	yes, "on lisp" is solid.
09:22	tcrayford	though bits of it keep on flying over my head, I think I'm on my third go through now
09:22	chouser	before reading that, I wasn't sure why lisp was so venerated. After, I knew: I must have macros.
09:23	defn	before PG became Mr. 2.0
09:23	tcrayford	is there a way to create a var on the fly?
09:24	defn	like...gensym you mean?
09:24	defn	or lower level?
09:25	tcrayford	no, something like (var 'foo), that actually returns a var object that I've just made
09:25	defn	oh, no idea..
09:25	tcrayford	oh, you can do it with var
09:25	bartj	chouser: I wrote a glowing review of your book here: http://rubylearning.org/class/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=3839
09:25	sexpbot	"A Ruby Learning Hub: Login to the site"
09:25	tcrayford	,(var foo)
09:25	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: foo in this context
09:25	chouser	tcrayford: with-local-vars
09:26	chouser	writing that section this week.
09:26	bartj	chouser: Thank you a million times. I just love your book a million times (compared to Programming Clojure)
09:26	chouser	bartj: wow! thanks!
09:27	lpetit	bartj: Programming clojure starts to show its age, but for what I've read of it (a quarter, maybe), it's very well written. (I have not yet read chouser's one, though ;-) )
09:28	tcrayford	http://gist.github.com/408827 for some reason defining that var on the fly always ends up with it on a line of 19
09:28	bartj	lpetit: If I had money, I would pay you to go read it right now. Seriously.
09:29	chouser	first chapter is free. :-)
09:29	bartj	chouser: have you written any other books? :)
09:29	chouser	ha! no.
09:29	bartj	chouser: and your co-author fogus?
09:30	chouser	sorry, laughing was probably rude. This is hard work.
09:30	chouser	no, this is Fogus's first as well
09:31	bartj	chouser: I profusely apologize...I was just being greedy and cheeky to read all your books...Sorry again...
09:31	chouser	oh, please don't apologize.
09:32	bartj	chouser: like i said, i just wanted to read your other books...I was so impressed by your "Joy of Clojure" book. That is all.
09:32	bozhidar	chouser: when is the book expected - I don't see it for preorder on amazon
09:33	tcrayford	bozhidar: see manning.com
09:33	tcrayford	(which, funnily enough uses yahoo store)
09:34	bozhidar	fall 2010 - not very specific :-)
09:34	defn	it's on amazon?
09:34	defn	i thought it was only available via manning?
09:34	chouser	bartj: it was a perfectly reasonable question.
09:34	bozhidar	defn: it's not
09:34	chouser	bartj: so, do I need an enrollment key to read that link you posted?
09:35	bartj	chouser: is it ok to post it here?
09:36	bartj	Anyway, the enrollment key is: BPCE101
09:36	chouser	I was just curious to see what you said, but it doesn't seem to let me.
09:36	tcrayford	chouser: I can gist it if you want
09:36	defn	chouser: actually, i dont know if you have any interest -- but there are quite a few "students" in rubylearning who post quite regularly. it's kind of a mixed bag, but im sure some of the folks would appreciate a cameo from the famous chouser :)
09:36	tcrayford	when I get rubylearning's terrible website working
09:37	bartj	tcrayford: can you gist the full page?
09:39	chouser	well, I'm giving up for now. Can't seem to get anything beyond "This course is not enrollable at the moment"
09:39	tcrayford	chouser: yeah, the course has started an all
09:39	tcrayford	bartj: shouldn't there be more exercises than week 1?
09:39	defn	chouser: it's a really poor site
09:40	bartj	tcrayford: I am afraid, I don't understand
09:40	tcrayford	on the rubylearning course?
09:41	defn	I am afraid also
09:41	tcrayford	I only see exercises for week 1 (which I completed ages ago), and I was under the impression that there were more weeks than that
09:41	defn	tcrayford: yeah i thought so too :\
09:41	tcrayford	chouser: http://gist.github.com/408841
09:41	defn	Michael Fogus will be online on our forum from 25-27 May 2010 to answer questions related to Clojure and his forth-coming book "The Joy of Clojure".
09:41	defn	ah, cool
09:42	bartj	tcrayford: yes there are
09:42	tcrayford	bartj: really? how do I get to them??
09:42	tcrayford	oh, got it
09:42	bartj	er, you need to be enrolled in the course
09:42	tcrayford	I am
09:42	tcrayford	I'm debating dropping out though, the site is so bad
09:43	chouser	nice, thanks.
09:43	bartj	er, sorry guys may be it is just my taste but, I liked the site!
09:44	tcrayford	I'm not so worried about the looks, just the fact that navigating around it is really annoying, and working out what's going on on the course is annoying
09:45	bartj	tcrayford: you go here http://rubylearning.org/class/course/view.php?id=53 - which gives you a nice overview
09:45	sexpbot	"A Ruby Learning Hub: Login to the site"
09:45	tcrayford	bartj: see, when I clicked the link to the course I only ever got to week 1's stuff
09:46	bartj	beats me. i see four weeks listed here
09:46	tcrayford	yeah, that link you gave me has 4 weeks, but when I clicked on the link to the clojure course from the homepage I only ever got to week 1
09:47	Chousuke	Someone needs to invent a device to control the sun's heat. I'm melting here ;/
09:47	tcrayford	I think I'll learn more from working through "on lisp" anyway
09:48	Chousuke	and it's "only" 26 degrees celsius
09:48	bartj	tcrayford: can you post the link here please?
09:48	tcrayford	bartj: it seems to be fixed now, maybe I was doing something wrong before
09:49	defn	tcrayford: it's polite to stay on the list and help people out from time to time -- there are some pretty 'green' folks on there who have a real desire to learn clojure -- the more we can do to encourage them the better :)
09:50	defn	im preaching a bit, and it's not really directed at you, more of a PSA than anything
09:50	defn	although i think this community has had the right feeling from day one
09:51	tcrayford	I'm pretty lazy with sticking to stuff like that course atm, I prefer learning from myself/friends/colleagues/this channel
09:51	defn	tcrayford: yeah same here, but again, not everyone has been on IRC for 10 years, and some even find it scary or intimidating
09:52	defn	gotta keep that human connection alive! :)
09:52	tcrayford	defn: I've only really been on irc for a couple of months
09:52	defn	really? i've been on IRC since I was...gosh...13
09:52	esj	defn: truedat, as an 'eager green' I'm most grateful for the skilled in this channel
09:52	defn	esj: it's difficult i think to learn the irc cultural dynamic
09:52	tcrayford	defn: I've only been into programming a couple of years, and the first year and a half were spent in hermit mode
09:53	defn	some folks pour their heart out on irc and get discouraged when everyone doesnt fall over to explain every detail -- i remember asking questions in #c and #c++ and basically getting laughed at
09:53	tcrayford	not to mention #emacs and #git :/
09:54	defn	the first "good" experience I had on irc was in #ruby-lang -- i'd actually say (surprisingly) that the culture on IRC has really matured over the last few years in particular
09:54	defn	i think people finally got hip to the fact that helping other people learn about their favorite things was as beneficial to them as it was to the people they are helping
09:54	defn	s/are/were
09:55	esj	yup, until you've explained it, you don't understand it
09:55	underdev	yeah, fr33n0de rulzrz!
09:55	defn	but then again, i used to be on EFnet -- freenode is a whole 'nother animal of irc
09:55	underdev	;)
09:56	esj	careful, you'll make CB and SB jealous
09:57	bartj	how do I know which function belongs to which library?
09:58	bartj	for example on my REPL, it says "Unable to resolve var" when I use the "re-split" function
09:58	tcrayford	(find-doc "re-split")
09:58	tcrayford	,(find-doc "re-split")
09:58	clojurebot	nil
09:58	bartj	er, nil?
09:59	tcrayford	try that at a repl
09:59	bartj	yes did that
09:59	tcrayford	I get a printout of re-split
09:59	bartj	have currently loaded both clojure.jar and clojure-contrib.jar on the classpath
10:01	tcrayford	(vals (apply merge (map ns-publics (all-ns)))) gets you a list of all the vars currently loaded (I think), and you can go through it using filter
10:01	tcrayford	,(filter #(.contains % "re-split") (map #(.toString %) (vals (apply merge (map ns-publics (all-ns))))))
10:01	clojurebot	()
10:03	bartj	tcrayford: get an empty list
10:04	defn	,(ns-public 'clojure.core)
10:04	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: ns-public in this context
10:04	defn	,(ns-publics 'clojure.core)
10:04	defn	did i break clojurebot? :X
10:04	tcrayford	defn: clojurebot will timeout that, (I think)
10:04	tcrayford	,(+ 1 1)
10:05	defn	uh oh...
10:05	tcrayford	haha
10:05	defn	,clojure-version
10:05	tcrayford	that's funny, because ns-publics on clojure.core doesn't take any time whatsoever here
10:05	defn	yeah i've done it in here before i think
10:06	defn	hiredman: I think clojurebot choked...
10:06	arkahn	$(ns-public 'clojure.core)
10:06	sexpbot	clojure.core
10:07	tcrayford	$(ns-publics 'clojure.core)
10:07	defn	$(ns-publics 'clojure.core)
10:07	sexpbot	clojure.core
10:07	sexpbot	clojure.core
10:07	defn	whaaaa?
10:07	bartj	defn: was my question the culprit?
10:07	arkahn	$(filter #(.contains % "re-split") (map #(.toString %) (vals (apply merge (map ns-publics (all-ns)))))) ;credits tcrayford
10:07	sexpbot	DENIED!
10:07	spariev	defn, the bot crusher :)
10:08	defn	lol -- i want that for my official title
10:08	defn	,(+ 1 2)
10:08	defn	man he is really dead...surprising
10:08	defn	clojurebot is battle-tested, mother approved
10:09	bartj	off home, while clojurebot someone administers CPR
10:10	defn	bartj: wanna wait one second so i can answer your question before you go?
10:10	tcrayford	defn: put an issue on hiredman's github repo for clojurebot
10:10	bartj	defn: definitely!
10:12	clojurebot	{sorted-map #'clojure.core/sorted-map, read-line #'clojure.core/read-line, re-pattern #'clojure.core/re-pattern, keyword? #'clojure.core/keyword?, val #'clojure.core/val, chunked-seq? #'clojure.core/chunked-seq?, find-protocol-impl #'clojure.core/find-protocol-impl, vector-of #'clojure.core/vector-of, object-array #'clojure.core/object-array, compile-path #'clojure.core/compile-path, max-key #'clojure.core/max-key, lis
10:12	clojurebot	3
10:12	defn	haha!
10:12	clojurebot	{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 2, :incremental 0, :qualifier "master"}
10:12	tcrayford	he lives!
10:12	defn	clojurebot: welcome back!
10:13	clojurebot	2
10:13	clojurebot	Excuse me?
10:14	bartj	defn: ?
10:14	defn	,(ns-publics 'clojure.core)
10:14	defn	sorry all, just testing again to make sure it wasnt just lag on clojurebot's side
10:15	tcrayford	,(+ 1 1)
10:15	tcrayford	yeah, seems to be dead
10:15	tcrayford	I'm surprised clojurebot doesn't fire up a thread for every request
10:15	defn	yeah... anyway, bartj -- tcrayford's advice is good
10:16	defn	(map ns-publics (all-ns)) should give you all the functions in all the namespaces
10:16	tcrayford	defn, don't forget to apply merge to that
10:16	defn	oh right
10:17	defn	bartj: (apply merge (map ns-publics (all-ns)))
10:17	defn	run that at your REPL
10:17	bartj	defn: yes
10:17	defn	bartj: or if you just want to see all of the functions, without their namespaces you could do:
10:18	clojurebot	{sorted-map #'clojure.core/sorted-map, read-line #'clojure.core/read-line, re-pattern #'clojure.core/re-pattern, keyword? #'clojure.core/keyword?, val #'clojure.core/val, chunked-seq? #'clojure.core/chunked-seq?, find-protocol-impl #'clojure.core/find-protocol-impl, vector-of #'clojure.core/vector-of, object-array #'clojure.core/object-array, compile-path #'clojure.core/compile-path, max-key #'clojure.core/max-key, lis
10:18	clojurebot	2
10:18	bartj	defn: I can't find "re-split" function listed when I do that
10:18	AWizzArd	A clojure fn similar to the (get ..) map, but which returns the key/value pair, and not only the value?
10:18	defn	(map str (map first (apply merge (map ns-publics (all-ns)))))
10:19	tcrayford	AWizzArd: I don't know of any, but you can write one pretty easily
10:19	defn	(sort (map str (map first (apply merge (map ns-publics (all-ns))))))
10:19	defn	bartj: are you still on 1.0?
10:19	bartj	no 1.2
10:19	AWizzArd	tcrayford: without iterating over the collection?
10:20	bartj	{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 2, :incremental 0, :qualifier "master"}
10:20	tcrayford	AWizzArd: yeah
10:20	AWizzArd	tcrayford: how?
10:20	defn	bartj: weird.
10:20	tcrayford	(defn a-clojure-fn [k mp] (conj [k] (k mp)))
10:20	defn	bartj: how are you running your REPL?
10:20	bartj	defn: java -cp "clojure/clojure.jar:clojure-contrib/target/clojure-contrib-1.2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar" clojure.main $1
10:20	tcrayford	(a-clojure-fn :foo {:foo 1}) ;; ouputs [:foo 1]
10:21	AWizzArd	tcrayford: that does return the k which I provided, which will be = but not identical.
10:21	AWizzArd	I want something that is identical to the key, not just =
10:21	tcrayford	,(identical? :foo :foo)
10:21	clojurebot	true
10:22	tcrayford	keywords are interned (so it works for keywords anyway)
10:23	bartj	defn: I am leaving now
10:23	AWizzArd	tcrayford: what if my keys are strings or instances of defrecords?
10:23	bartj	bye and thank you all very much guys! you guys are awesome. seriously.
10:23	AWizzArd	(identical? (MyRecord. 1 2 3) (MyRecord. 1 2 3)) ==> false
10:23	tcrayford	strings are fine though
10:23	AWizzArd	or when my keys are java.util.Date instances?
10:24	defn	i have no idea why he doesnt have split-with
10:24	tcrayford	yeah it doesn't work all the time. I don't think there's anything that I know about in clojure that does that
10:24	hoeck	AWizzArd: what about find?
10:24	AWizzArd	hoeck: ah yes, that was the fn I was looking for.
10:24	AWizzArd	I keep forgetting it.
10:25	defn	wait wait, what do you mean find?
10:25	tcrayford	,(find {:foo 1} :foo)
10:25	clojurebot	[:foo 1]
10:25	defn	ahhhhh i see
10:26	hoeck	,(meta (first (find {(with-meta 'a {:meta :t}) :a} 'a)))
10:26	clojurebot	{:meta :t}
10:26	hoeck	find returns the maps MapEntry, so it preservers key metadata
10:26	hoeck	*preserves
10:28	AWizzArd	for me it is important that I get the key which sits in the map, and with find I can do that
10:28	AWizzArd	,(let [d1 (java.util.Date.), d2 (java.util.Date.), m {d1 10}] [(= d1 d2) (identical? d1 d2)])
10:28	clojurebot	[true false]
10:29	AWizzArd	I can not just say [d2 (get m d2)], because I need it to be d1
10:29	AWizzArd	(find m d2) ==> [d1 (get m d1)]
10:30	AWizzArd	hoeck: do you know if find is O(1)?
10:30	defn	,(+ 1 2)
10:30	clojurebot	3
10:30	hoeck	its the same O as get
10:32	defn	would someone else try the ns-publics thing and see if it behaves the same?
10:32	AWizzArd	hoeck: ok fine, that makes sense
10:32	tcrayford	,(ns-publics 'clojure.core)
10:32	tcrayford	,(+ 1 2)
10:32	defn	k just checking. my nick is 'defn' so i just wanted to make sure that had absolutely nothing to do with it
10:33	defn	i dont know why it would but well...it's a keyword so
10:33	tcrayford	defn: have you reported that on clojurebot's repo yet?
10:33	defn	yeah just did
10:33	defn	i just wanted it to be properly tested before i reported intermittent lag as an issue
10:34	tcrayford	its better for people to know about it than not, even if nowt gets done
10:35	defn	yeah i know that deep in my hacker heart
10:35	defn	but i still hate being the bearer of bad news :)
10:35	tcrayford	so that's why you haven't bug reported much on refactoring :P
10:35	defn	:D
10:36	defn	you're going to be singing a different tune when you wake up to 100 emails from github tomorrow ;)
10:36	tcrayford	I'll be happy with that
10:36	tcrayford	I don't actually use refactoring-mode very much, so I don't see many bugs
10:37	defn	tcrayford: i cant say i use it /all/ the time -- once there is a minor mode id use it all the time
10:37	tcrayford	defn: coming right up
10:40	clojurebot	{sorted-map #'clojure.core/sorted-map, read-line #'clojure.core/read-line, re-pattern #'clojure.core/re-pattern, keyword? #'clojure.core/keyword?, val #'clojure.core/val, chunked-seq? #'clojure.core/chunked-seq?, find-protocol-impl #'clojure.core/find-protocol-impl, vector-of #'clojure.core/vector-of, object-array #'clojure.core/object-array, compile-path #'clojure.core/compile-path, max-key #'clojure.core/max-key, lis
10:40	clojurebot	3
10:40	tcrayford	defn: what key are you binding to refactoring-mode's menu?
10:43	tcrayford	I'm going with "C-c C-r" for the moment
10:43	tcrayford	defn: see github for a minor mode
10:45	Licenser	mmarczyk: neat code for the ident thing!
10:46	tcrayford	Licenser: see the issue on clojurebot regarding ns-publics and clojure.core. Not sure if that's your end or hiredman's though
10:47	Licenser	tcrayford: hiredmans since he does not use clj-sandbox ;)
10:47	tcrayford	ah, k
10:47	tcrayford	we had a 7 minute lag with clojurebot earlier doing that
10:48	Licenser	oha
10:48	Licenser	can you try that with sexpbot?
10:48	tcrayford	not sure how to invoke sexpbot
10:48	Licenser	$(+ 1 1)
10:48	sexpbot	result: 2
10:48	tcrayford	$(ns-publics 'clojure.core)
10:48	sexpbot	clojure.core
10:48	Licenser	$(+ 1 1)
10:48	sexpbot	result: 2
10:48	Licenser	hmm I see no lag
10:48	tcrayford	that's not even the right result for ns-publics
10:49	Licenser	:P
10:49	tcrayford	,(ns-publics 'clojure.core)
10:49	tcrayford	(this will take a while)
10:50	Licenser	hmm it should time out usually
10:50	tcrayford	doesn't in this case
10:50	tcrayford	that expression executs instantly at the repl though
10:50	tcrayford	/s/excuts/executes
10:51	Licenser	hmm then it will be likely a clojurebot issue
10:51	tcrayford	yeah, I'll talk to hiredman next time he's aboot
10:51	tcrayford	though sexpbot fails with it as well (as seen earlier)
10:52	Licenser	$mail Raynes Why does sexpbot not return the right result for $(ns-publics 'clojure.core)?
10:52	sexpbot	Message saved.
10:52	tcrayford	that's neat
10:53	tcrayford	$mail hiredman Why does clojurebot take ages (but not time out) when running ,(ns-publics 'clojure.core)?
10:53	sexpbot	Message saved.
10:53	Licenser	,(loop [i 1] (recur (inc i)))
10:54	Licenser	$(loop [i 1] (recur (inc i)))
10:54	chouser	oops
10:54	sexpbot	Execution Timed Out!
10:54	tcrayford	chouser: oops?
10:54	Licenser	hmm sexpbot times out
10:54	chouser	$(Thread/sleep 20000)
10:54	sexpbot	DENIED!
10:54	Licenser	then again clojurebot isn't back from the ns stuff
10:54	chouser	sigh
10:54	tcrayford	no its not
10:54	tcrayford	:/
10:55	Licenser	chouser: I wrote that sandbox so simple tricks as sleep don#t work :P
10:55	chouser	I was thinking that sleep was a gentler test
10:55	chouser	useful for playing with thread-interaction stuff besides
10:57	clojurebot	{sorted-map #'clojure.core/sorted-map, read-line #'clojure.core/read-line, re-pattern #'clojure.core/re-pattern, keyword? #'clojure.core/keyword?, val #'clojure.core/val, chunked-seq? #'clojure.core/chunked-seq?, find-protocol-impl #'clojure.core/find-protocol-impl, vector-of #'clojure.core/vector-of, object-array #'clojure.core/object-array, compile-path #'clojure.core/compile-path, max-key #'clojure.core/max-key, lis
10:57	chouser	but since you can't use agents or futures either, I guess it doesn't matter.
10:57	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
10:57	tcrayford	that was around 8 minutes again
10:57	tcrayford	:/
10:57	tcrayford	timing out with loop works fine though
10:58	tcrayford	chouser: do you have any tips for reading on lisp? I've been struggling to understand some of the stuff in there
10:58	chouser	tcrayford: hm, none that I can think of. Maybe I should try reading it again.
10:58	tcrayford	did you just read it like a novel?
10:59	chouser	I think I read it on my palm device.
10:59	Licenser	tcrayford: I have the feeling that it is a formating thing
11:00	chouser	which has since died
11:00	chouser	presumably that's unrelated
11:00	jweiss	cemerick: i am still trying to figure out what's wrong w my clutch view server. put in some extra debugging to print out stuff - does this mean anything to you: No implementation of method: :read-json-from of protocol: #'clojure.contrib.json/Read-JSON-From found for class: nil
11:00	tcrayford	chouser: maybe it couldn't handle the power of lisp :/
11:01	tcrayford	I have myself a printed copy, which is somewhat better, but its still hard work to actually understand everything
11:01	Licenser	see you later
11:02	chouser	toward the end I might have given up trying to understand every example in detail, just trying to understand the gist. It's been a while, I'm not sure.
11:02	tcrayford	aye, I don't really struggle until he gets to the query compier
11:02	tcrayford	s/compier/compiler
11:03	tcrayford	and then the continuations and prolog stuff goes over my head
11:18	notsonerdysunny	http://clojure.pastebin.com/6ymswkty
11:18	notsonerdysunny	I am a newbie to clojure and java
11:18	notsonerdysunny	I am trying to get slime and clojure working
11:19	notsonerdysunny	I saw the errors and realize that it is not looking for the clojure.jar in the correct directory ..
11:19	notsonerdysunny	can anybody help me to fix this..?
11:19	notsonerdysunny	can I take care of this with some java classpath environment variable?
11:21	Blackfoot	i recommend using lein for setting class path
11:22	Blackfoot	for example, http://github.com/jochu/swank-clojure
11:22	Blackfoot	but i have not used swank specifically
11:31	arohner	did defn get support for destructuring maps in the & args position, or am I crazy?
11:31	arohner	I'm trying to find documentation / github commit for it, and I can't
11:31	arohner	aha
11:31	arohner	http://github.com/richhickey/clojure/commit/29389970bcd41998359681d9a4a20ee391a1e07c
11:32	notsonerdysunny	Blackfoot: would you be able to help me as to how I could do that..?
11:35	alpheus	notsonerdysunny: as a total newb, I followed the instructions at http://github.com/jochu/swank-clojure last night with no problems
11:38	cemerick	the distinction between send and send-off is a little more subtle than blocking vs. nonblocking. I'm finding that using send-off for just about everything is better for my purposes, so as to "oversubscribe" the cores in my compute nodes, thereby ensuring full utilization.
11:38	alpheus	(doc require) mentions "classpath". Is that the same as the value passed to java in the "-cp" option?
11:38	clojurebot	"([& args]); Loads libs, skipping any that are already loaded. Each argument is either a libspec that identifies a lib, a prefix list that identifies multiple libs whose names share a common prefix, or a flag that modifies how all the identified libs are loaded. Use :require in the ns macro in preference to calling this directly. Libs A 'lib' is a named set of resources in classpath whose contents define a library of Cloju
11:39	cemerick	e.g. if your send fn is a mix of 75/25 CPU/IO, you want three of those running on a 2-core box to max things out
11:39	cemerick	...or maybe my thinking here is muddled.
11:39	cemerick	alpheus: in 99% of the cases, yes
11:42	alpheus	Thanks. I'm trying to use a clojure image started with lein and require sample code from a book that doesn't mention swank or lein.
11:55	arkahn	is there a way for a function to 1) create something the first time it's called and 2) have it persist and be available between invocations ?
11:55	arkahn	specifically, I want to have a file opened and available through function invocations
11:59	Chousuke	arkahn: put a reference to it in an atom or something
11:59	arkahn	Chousuke: ok - I wasn't sure what was idiomatic either, but I'll take that route. Thanks.
12:00	cemerick	a delay would probably be easier -- no explicit checking
12:00	Chousuke	arkahn: it's not particularly idiomatic. more idiomatic would be creating the file, returning it, and then passing it as a parameter later :P
12:00	arkahn	Chousuke: I can do that : )
12:00	arkahn	cemerick
12:01	arkahn	: what's a delay?
12:01	cemerick	,(doc delay)
12:01	clojurebot	"([& body]); Takes a body of expressions and yields a Delay object that will invoke the body only the first time it is forced (with force or deref/@), and will cache the result and return it on all subsequent force calls."
12:01	arkahn	sweet
12:02	cemerick	so, (def some-open-resource (delay (init-resource))), and then just use @some-open-resource in the fn body
12:03	arkahn	cemerick: I'll check that out - thank you
12:08	arkahn	delay is interesting but I think I'll create a (BufferedReader. (FileReader. f)) ahead of time and pass that around.
12:12	alpheus	I expected that after evaluating (def trigger (delay (println "you got me"))) in the repl, I could evaluate trigger without printing anything (until force or deref was used). What's wrong with my understanding?
12:34	riddochc	Hey, doesn't emacs provide some function like "close-all-open-parens-or-bracets-or-etc" by some different name? Anybody know what that function is?
12:34	tcrayford	just use paredit and you'll be fine
12:35	alpheus	There's slime-repl-closing-return
12:54	bartj	er, are there any libraries to connect to webkit rendering engine using clojure?
12:55	Raynes	I think I've seen some Java stuff for that.
12:56	KirinDave	cgrand did a really good job on his most recent blog post.
12:56	clojurebot	whose job is it to rule the world
13:04	bartj	KirinDave: link?
13:05	jfields	why would you use (some identity coll) instead of (seq coll) when determining if there are any elements of coll?
13:05	jfields	(for example, the impl of merge-with)
13:06	KirinDave	bartj: http://clj-me.cgrand.net/2010/05/08/destructuring-records-prototypes-and-named-arguments/
13:06	sexpbot	"Clojure and me » Destructuring, records, protocols and named arguments"
13:09	jfields	anyone care to write a (diff ) function that makes this true: (= {:a [100 250] :c [0 300] :d [220 0]} (diff {:a 100 :b 200 :d 220} {:a 250 :b 200 :c 300}))
13:10	jfields	I'm working on something, but haven't found anything I really like yet
13:10	cemerick	bartj: there's a gecko java wrapper
13:10	cemerick	and swt has webkit integration, I think
13:11	bartj	cemerick: thanks, I check it out
13:12	stuarthalloway	technomancy: you around?
13:13	bartj	cemerick: looks like it is jrex
13:13	cemerick	bartj: there's another one, too...don't remember the name tho
13:16	bartj	cemerick: I was leaning more towards webkit wrappers
13:18	stuarthalloway	"lein test" has a crippling perf bug, and I would love to discuss it with someone before pushing the fix
13:18	stuarthalloway	I'll just explain it then :-)
13:19	cemerick	bartj: I know that swt has support for using webkit as a backend to its Browser component, but that's as far as my understanding goes.
13:19	cemerick	there may be other java-webkit wrappers floating around, I have to imagine it's a common inclination
13:20	stuarthalloway	back in late January, the innocuous looking refactoring commit http://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/commit/a9936d22 causes the entire world to be recompiled between every test
13:20	bartj	cemerick: I am not actually looking to use a java component to display a webpage on an app
13:20	cemerick	bartj: what's the use case then?
13:20	stuarthalloway	this makes tests an order of magnitude slower, and doesn't make sense--code won't change while you are running your tests non-interactively
13:21	bartj	cemerick: this is for information extraction purposes - the task being getting the size of each rendered HTML element...
13:21	cemerick	ah, ok
13:22	bartj	cemerick: ... to deduce their importance and see where they "occur" on the web-page
13:22	cemerick	I'd certainly hope that a good wrapper would provide a pipe into the DOM, but I can see that being a tall order
13:23	chouser	I'm using rssowl these days, which appears to be a java app with gecko embedded rather seamlessly.
13:23	chouser	does that help? :-)
13:25	chouser	Dunno if it uses this or something else: http://jrex.mozdev.org/
13:25	sexpbot	"JRex - The Java Browser Component"
13:27	bartj	chouser: that was probably rude. Finding a wrapper to a rendering engine is hard. :)
13:29	bartj	chouser: is rssowl open source?
13:29	bartj	I think it is definitely possible to use the webkit rendering engine from java because android uses webkit
13:30	KirinDave	Android also uses jni.
13:37	stuarthalloway	cemerick: I have submitted a patch for last-var-wins that limits its scope to clojure.core, per discussion here. Mostly happy?
13:37	cemerick	heh
13:38	cemerick	stuarthalloway: I'm satisficed, yes.
13:38	stuarthalloway	good enough for me
13:39	cemerick	Over time, I really really want to get to the point where ns declarations really are declarative. Not sure what the impl would look like for that, but that instinct remains constant.
13:39	ninjudd	stuarthalloway: what's a guy gotta do to get access to the assembla spaces?
13:47	stuarthalloway	ninjudd: lemme check
13:48	stuarthalloway	ninjudd: it is done
13:49	ninjudd	stuarthalloway: thanks
13:51	ninjudd	stuarthalloway: are you the same Stuart Halloway who wrote http://www.amazon.com/Component-Development-Java-TM-Platform/dp/0201753065?
13:51	sexpbot	"Amazon.com: Component Development for the Java(TM) Platform (9780201753066): Stuart Dabbs Halloway: Books"
13:56	technomancy	stuarthalloway: it's the :reload-all, isn't it.
13:57	lpetit	http://www.amazon.com/Stuart-Halloway/e/B002BWYVRI/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1274464448&sr=1-1
13:57	sexpbot	"Amazon.com: Stuart Halloway: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle"
13:57	lpetit	yep, or they are both with the same name and the same face :)
13:59	technomancy	stuarthalloway: thanks
14:00	jfields	Is there a function that will, given a map and a pred, return a map with all the entires that pass the pred?
14:02	alpheus	doesn't map do that?
14:04	jfields	alpheus: I don't think so.
14:04	Raynes	$(map (fn [[key val]] [val key]) {:key :val :key2 :val2})
14:04	sexpbot	DENIED!
14:04	Raynes	Uh.
14:05	Raynes	What could possibly be denied in that.
14:05	Raynes	$(map (fn [[k v]] [v k]) {:key :val :key2 :val2})
14:05	sexpbot	result: clojure.lang.LazySeq@f333e02e
14:05	Raynes	Oh.
14:05	Raynes	The key and val functions.
14:05	Raynes	$(into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [v k]) {:key :val :key2 :val2}))
14:05	sexpbot	result: {:val2 :key2, :val :key}
14:05	Raynes	jfields: ^
14:05	jfields	raynes, thanks
14:06	jfields	I think I need filter not map, but the idea is the same. thanks.
14:06	ninjudd	lpetit: thanks, two clicks was too far for me to find that page on amazon
14:08	bartj	Raynes: I think clojurebot, sexpbot are not functional
14:09	bartj	, (+ 1 2)
14:09	clojurebot	3
14:09	Raynes	bartj: Huh?
14:09	bartj	, (map (fn [ [key val] ] [val key]) {:key :val :key2 :val2})
14:09	clojurebot	([:val :key] [:val2 :key2])
14:10	bartj	Raynes: you need to prefix it with a comma
14:10	Raynes	I was using sexpbot, not clojurebot. sexpbot is very functional. The only problem is that key and val aren't whitelisted in clj-sandbox, something I'm remedying as we speak.
14:13	Raynes	And I think I've fixed that damned LazySeq problem.
14:15	Raynes	Yep, I did.
14:15	Raynes	$(map (fn [[k v]] [v k]) {:key :val :key2 :val2})
14:16	Raynes	$(map (fn [[k v]] [v k]) {:key :val :key2 :val2})
14:16	sexpbot	=> ([:val2 :key2] [:val :key])
14:16	Raynes	spacefail
14:16	Raynes	:)
14:40	ninjudd	technomancy: when you get a minute, i have something i wanted to show you
14:43	ninjudd	technomancy: with regard to leiningen hooks
14:43	Borkdude	Is there a guide somewhere how to upgrade an elpa installed swank-clojure to the next version?
14:45	Borkdude	brb
14:46	Borkdude	my swank-clojure-project doesn't work with a new lein project I just made
14:47	Borkdude	Emacs just keeps polling and polling
14:47	lancepantz	Borkdude: swank-clojure is actually deprecated
14:47	AWizzArd	Anyone here who is pretty familiar with the (current) Java implementation of sorted maps and sets?
14:47	lancepantz	just use lein swank, then slime-connect
14:48	rsenior	technomancy: is there any xref setups needed for the slime-who-calls function to work with the latest swank?
14:48	Borkdude	should I manually add the swank dependency to my project.clj still?
14:49	Borkdude	if I want to do lein swank
14:49	Borkdude	Just did a lein upgrade fyi
14:50	Borkdude	I mean, is there a reason why lein new doesn't add it automatically now?
14:52	Borkdude	lancepantz: I hope you mean swank-clojure-project
14:55	Borkdude	hmm, ok, I added it to my dev-dependencies. when I do slime-connect, I get: version differ (slime, swank), do you want to continue?
14:56	Borkdude	what is that about?
15:02	lancepantz	Borkdude: i get the same after upgrading in elpa, my guess it's because we're not using the master of lein-swank
15:04	rsenior	Borkdude and lancepantz I get that as well after the 1.2.1 upgrade
15:05	Borkdude	in elpa, if I want to upgrade something, like clojure-mode, can I just D the old one and I the new one?
15:07	rsenior	not sure if it's right or wrong, but I installed the new version, then later went in and removed the old
15:08	lancepantz	i have to mark it d, then execute, then package-list-packages again and install, but i use aquamacs which may be making it wonky
15:11	technomancy	lancepantz: there's a bug in package.el that makes it a little awkward; it's fixed in my fork of package.el, but the upstream maintainer is a slacker
15:12	lancepantz	i see
15:13	rsenior	technomancy: is there any additional setup needed to use slime-who-calls? beyond the regular slime/swank setup?
15:13	Borkdude	ah, also upgraded some other things now
15:13	technomancy	rsenior: shouldn't be
15:13	rsenior	I am getting a wrong-type-argument error from slime and am wondering if I'm doing something wrong
15:14	rsenior	let me past the backtrace into gist real quick
15:14	Borkdude	I upgraded slime also
15:14	Borkdude	but it still complains about the versions
15:17	rsenior	unfortunately there's some crazy characters below the 5th line that gist doesn't like, so I removed them http://gist.github.com/409296
15:18	Borkdude	how can I see which slime version I'm actually using?
15:27	lancepantz	do you guys run clojure-mode in your slime repl?
15:27	lancepantz	when i enable it, enter is a line break instead of return
15:32	nachtalp	hmm, could anybody give me a clue why this doesn't succeed in extracting values from a map given a vector of keys? http://www.pastie.org/971576
15:36	rsenior	nachtalp: your code works for me
15:38	Borkdude	nachtalp: also works here
15:41	nachtalp	rsenior, Borkdude: thanks, i just found out that it works for me in a fresh repl as well... strange, i thought i had my problem isolated...
15:47	Borkdude	still no clue, what version differ means when I do slime-connect, it mentions a version nr that is different from my slime, if I did the upgrade correct, that is
15:52	patrkris	rhickey: you there?
15:52	rhickey	yes
15:53	patrkris	rhickey: can I disturb you with a few questions about clojure's stm? :)
15:53	rhickey	maybe
15:53	rhickey	:)
15:54	patrkris	rhickey: thanks! just wanted to make sure I understand exactly why clojure's stm is obstruction-free. I have a theory and just want you to say yes or no to whether that (in part) makes it not-obstruciton-free.
15:54	rhickey	it's not obstruction free
15:54	Fossi	that was an easy answer
15:55	patrkris	rhickey: yes, I know. But I just wanted to make sure that I understand what makes it not obstruction-free.
15:55	patrkris	rhickey: One reason is that writing setting a ref during a transaction takes a lock on the ref, yes?
15:56	rhickey	all the locking and blocking are obstructions
15:56	patrkris	rhickey: well maybe more generally that Clojure's STM employs locks, which may cause other transactions to block and retry (bail).
15:57	patrkris	ok yes
15:58	patrkris	rhickey: well, thanks then :) I was just confused by the definition of obstruction-freedom and why clojure is not obstruction-free. I know I shouldn't be, but I'm born with a small brain.
16:02	Borkdude	does Clojure have a function that composes the or of two functions that take the same kind of args? like (or-comp f1 f2) => (fn [args] (or (f1 args) (f2 args)))?
16:02	AWizzArd	rhickey: Hi! I was looking for someone who is familiar with the implementations of sorted sets and maps, and just saw that you are here. Do you see an “easy way” to implement a mechanism to construct a sorted set/map much faster, by bypassing the sorting mechanism, when we can insert in already the correct order?
16:04	rhickey	AWizzArd: the sorted sets/maps are red-black trees. any literature on building them from sorted might apply
16:07	AWizzArd	okay
16:26	remleduff	Borkdude: My attempt is (defn or-comp [args & fns] (let [f (apply juxt fns)] (some true? (f args)))) ;)
16:29	Borkdude	remleduff, is juxt lazy?
16:30	Borkdude	I mean, is the result it returns a lazy seq, so it won't actually evaluate all the fns?
16:30	remleduff	No, I don't think so
16:33	remleduff	OK, take 2 :). (defn or-comp [args & fns] (let [results (for [fn fns] (fn args))] (some true? results)))
16:35	remleduff	OK, take 2 :). (defn or-comp [args & fns] (let [results (for [fn fns] (fn args))] (some (complement nil?) results)))
16:35	remleduff	I wish there was a truthy? function
16:39	Borkdude	remleduff: how am I supposed to provde the args, in a vector?
16:39	AWizzArd	why not (some #(% arg1 arg2) [fn1 fn2 fn3 fn4]) ?
16:39	AWizzArd	instead of or-comp
16:39	Borkdude	brilliant
16:40	remleduff	Because I was stuck in the "answering his question" mental space ;)
16:41	Borkdude	AWizzArd: but can I make a version of or-comp, without specifying the args?
16:42	Borkdude	(defn or-comp [fns] (apply some #(% ...) fns))
16:42	remleduff	If you're ok with putting multiple args in a vector or something, do that then do (apply fn args)
16:43	Borkdude	I can do (comp f1 f2) without saying what the args of f1 and f2 are
16:43	Borkdude	I should also be able to do this with or-comp
16:44	bmason	I think I'm not understanding something about importing java classes...
16:44	bmason	I searched jarvana for the class I want to use, I found the correct package and got that set up as a lein dependency
16:45	AWizzArd	you can #(apply % args) or if you have not args you can use %&
16:45	bmason	it's pulling the jar down into libs, but I'm still not able to (import 'classname) from clojure...
16:46	AWizzArd	bmason: do you do (import 'ClassName) or (import 'the.package.name.ClassName) ?
16:46	bmason	(import 'javax.mail.internet.MimeMultipart)
16:46	AWizzArd	What happens after you typed this?
16:46	Borkdude	AWizzArd: how would you write comp-or then?
16:46	remleduff	Aha: (defn or-comp [& fns] (fn [& args] (some #(apply % args) fns)))
16:47	bmason	class not found
16:47	AWizzArd	bmason: then this class is indeed not on your CP. Have a look at (System/getProperty "java.class.path")
16:47	AWizzArd	Borkdude: I would not write it, but what remleduff presented looks fine.
16:48	Borkdude	AWizzArd: then I would still have to specify the args
16:48	AWizzArd	not at the moment when you call or-comp
16:49	AWizzArd	what remleduff showed you is something that produces a fn
16:49	bmason	AWizzArd: indeed, there is no mention of javax at all in my classpath
16:49	AWizzArd	(def your-or-fn (or-comp + - * /))
16:49	AWizzArd	And later you could (your-or-fn 10 20 30)
16:49	bmason	AWizzArd: my project.clj has [javax/javaee-api "6.0"] under dependencies and it's successfully copying this from a repo to my libs folder...
16:50	AWizzArd	bmason: the expert for Leiningen is technomancy.
16:50	Borkdude	AWizzArd: maybe I missed something but remleduff 's or-comp takes args as an argument
16:50	bmason	AWizzArd: k :)
16:50	clojurebot	haskell is Yo dawg, I heard you like Haskell, so I put a lazy thunk inside a lazy thunk so you don't have to compute while you don't compute.
16:51	remleduff	Borkdude: The anonymous function that is returned by or-comp takes args, you don't need them when just calling or-comp
16:51	bmason	clojurebot is funny guy today
16:51	technomancy	bmason: is there a javax/mail/internet/MimeMultipart.class inside one of the jars in the lib directory?
16:51	AWizzArd	As I see it remleduffs or-comp takes fns
16:51	AWizzArd	not args
16:51	Borkdude	remleduff: which version are we talking about, can you type it again?
16:51	remleduff	(defn or-comp [& fns] (fn [& args] (some #(apply % args) fns)))
16:52	Borkdude	ah ok I think I indeed missed that one... sorry!
16:52	bmason	technomancy: will check
16:52	Borkdude	that version does indeed look fine, tnx remleduff and AWizzArd :)
16:53	bmason	technomancy: yes, that path exists inside the jar "java-api-6.0.jar" which is in my lib directory
16:55	bmason	technomancy: ok, I may not have properly reloaded the environment... now I get "Absent Code attribute in method that is not native or abstract in class file javax/mail/internet/MimeMultipart" when I do (import 'javax.mail.internet.MimeMultipart)
16:56	bmason	which I think means I'm missing a dependency...
16:56	AWizzArd	After the import, when you just type MimeMultipart in the repl it should return javax.mail.internet.MimeMultipart if the import worked.
16:57	bmason	yeah, the import is throwing an exception though... have to fix that first
16:58	bmason	technomancy: incidentally, is there a way to restart swank/slime with 1 command? right now adding a dependency is a multiple step process for me
16:59	AWizzArd	maybe javax.mail needs this support class? I don't remember it, on my system I can import that Multipart class
17:00	bmason	AWizzArd: http://dominikdorn.com/2010/05/maven-junit-classformaterror-absent-code-attribute/
17:00	sexpbot	"Maven + JUnit + ClassFormatError: Absent Code attribute in method that is not native or abstract in class file \| dominikdorn.com"
17:00	drewr	urg
17:00	danlarkin	ugh is right
17:01	danlarkin	no one likes those stupid link titles
17:01	AWizzArd	just /ignore sexpbot then ;)
17:02	bmason	ok... now adding javax/mail as a dep, I still get the absent code attribute error
17:02	bmason	how do I figure out what it needs?
17:03	remleduff	javax/mail or javax.mail/mail ?
17:04	bmason	[javax.mail/mail "1.4.1"]
17:05	bmason	it seems like voodoo magic to find the dependency with an error message like that
17:06	remleduff	Does java -verbose help at all?
17:07	bmason	hmm... how would I use that in context of a slime repl?
17:08	remleduff	I think you can do JAVA_OPTS=-verbose before you do lein swank
17:08	remleduff	It may not be any help at all though
17:10	bmason	remleduff: you mean like this? http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t76635.html
17:10	sexpbot	"Overwrite java parameters with environment variables or other mechanism???"
17:11	bmason	technomancy: does swank use the JAVA_OPTS variable when it starts the clojure repl?
17:12	bmason	that's great if it does... that would help me attach a JSwat session to it :)
17:12	technomancy	it does
17:12	bmason	SWEET
17:13	bmason	noted :)
17:13	technomancy	you can also set :java-opts in project.clj if you want them to apply to everyone using your project
17:13	technomancy	but it forces the JVM to fork, so you pay a perf price
17:14	bmason	oh, that's good to know
17:20	bmason	ok, so now I'm trying (import 'javax.mail.Multipart) and I get the absent code attribute error here as well
17:21	bmason	weird thing is, I thought that message had to do with a superclass not being imported... javax.mail.Multipart derives directly from java.lang.Object
17:29	remleduff	Did you restart swank after you added javax.mail to your project?
17:29	remleduff	bmason: ^^
17:30	bmason	I'm sure I... lemme double check :)
17:31	bmason	remleduff: yeah, that's not the issue
17:32	bmason	I'm reading up more about what the error actually means
17:32	remleduff	Possibly, the problem is that javax.mail needs to be loaded _before_ javaee-api
17:33	remleduff	But lein I think just looks at the order the jar files are in your lib directory when adding them to the classpath
17:34	remleduff	So try renaming mail-1.4.1.jar to something like 00mail-1.4.1.jar to see if it helps
17:35	bmason	ok, I think the issue may be the jar I got
17:35	bmason	apparently there are some jars floating around in MVN repos that only have the API stubbed out, with no implementation: http://weblogs.java.net/blog/ludo/archive/2007/01/java_ee_5_apis.html
17:35	sexpbot	"Java EE 5 APIs now in a Maven repository... \| Java.net"
17:35	remleduff	That's not confusing
17:35	bmason	oh no, not at all
17:36	bmason	and it's its not like I've wasted several days trying to figure it out either
17:36	bmason	nor am I bitter... moving on :)
17:36	remleduff	haha
17:37	bmason	I guess I need to find out what the correct jars are then
17:37	bmason	http://jarvana.com/jarvana/search?search_type=class&java_class=javax.mail.internet.MimeMultipart
17:37	sexpbot	"javax.mail.internet.MimeMultipart - Class Search - Jarvana"
17:37	bmason	pretty big list to go through, and I'm not familiar with java conventions
17:38	danlarkin	I hate you sexpbot!!!!!
17:39	bmason	what was the point of those titles?
17:39	bmason	just to give people context on links?
17:39	AWizzArd	bmason: you should ask Raynes (:
17:39	bmason	:D
17:40	remleduff	bmason: The way I read it, those classes are provided by whatever application server your service runs in
17:40	remleduff	The jars you have are just stubs to allow it to compile, you can't actually use it outside of something like glassFish or BEA Weblogic
17:41	bmason	remleduff: that makes sense I suppose... but I need something to do development with
17:42	bmason	so the question is where do I find a complete implementation
17:43	bmason	anyone know what "plugin" means in the context of maven repos?
17:43	bmason	all the jetty stuff has plugin icons next to it... maybe that means it's a full implementation
17:51	remleduff	Actually, I think javax.mail is a complete implementation. It's the javaee-api that is stubs
17:51	remleduff	But you probably actually have to run a web server and deploy to it to do testing
17:51	bmason	sweet
17:51	bmason	yeah I got it
17:52	remleduff	What did you do, remove javaee-api entirely?
17:52	bmason	javax.mail has what I need, but the javaee-api stubs were overriding them
17:52	bmason	yeah, I just removed javaee-api
17:53	remleduff	This is why "enterprise Java" has always seemed like such a strange goal to strive for to me ;)
17:53	bmason	:-D
17:54	bmason	yeah... I plan to get more into Java
17:54	bmason	easy way to get a day job, and it will have fringe benefits for my clojure programming
17:55	bmason	cus yeah... things are a little rough around the edges
18:11	defn	,(ns-publics 'clojure.core)
18:11	defn	,(+ 1 2)
18:11	lancepantz	rejected.
18:11	defn	nah, i submitted an issue on this earlier today but hiredman just closed it with no comment
18:11	defn	his bot, i guess
18:12	lancepantz	,(println "hi")
18:12	defn	it'll come back in about 5min or so
18:12	lancepantz	ns-publics crashes it?
18:12	lancepantz	atleast it doesn't barf a bunch of exceptions to the channel :)
18:12	defn	nah, not a crash, just very slow to return for some odd reason
18:12	lancepantz	hmm
18:15	defn	any second now...
18:19	clojurebot	{sorted-map #'clojure.core/sorted-map, read-line #'clojure.core/read-line, re-pattern #'clojure.core/re-pattern, keyword? #'clojure.core/keyword?, val #'clojure.core/val, chunked-seq? #'clojure.core/chunked-seq?, find-protocol-impl #'clojure.core/find-protocol-impl, vector-of #'clojure.core/vector-of, object-array #'clojure.core/object-array, compile-path #'clojure.core/compile-path, max-key #'clojure.core/max-key, lis
18:19	clojurebot	hi
18:19	clojurebot	3
18:27	scottj	What's required to make a runnable jar with lein? I mean, do you create a -main function, lein jar, and then java -cp foo.jar what-class-goes-here?
18:28	AWizzArd	scottj: read about jar files, specifically the manifest file
18:28	AWizzArd	when you mention the right main class there you can simply do java -jar foo.jar
18:28	AWizzArd	or doubleclick the .jar
18:31	technomancy	scottj: set the ns containing the -main function as :main in project.clj, then do lein uberjar
18:31	defn	scottj: also note that you want to use the standalone.jar
18:31	defn	since it includes clojure
18:32	Raynes	bmason: Indeed, to give context on those links. sexpbot has pretty sophisticated url scraping, in order to make it suitable for channels like this one. It doesn't follow github or paste links and such.
18:34	Raynes	danlarkin: He's pretty fond of you. You've broken his heart.
18:34	bmason	lol
18:34	sexpbot	danlarkin: </3 :(
18:34	stribb	hi there
18:35	stribb	I'm still very much learning my way around clojure.core and wondered if you were willing to critique this line? I want it to be idiomatic (and ideally shorter)
18:35	stribb	http://pastebin.org/262500
18:37	stribb	that is, (apply str (cons \newline (flatten (interpose \+(repeat 3 (repeat (* width 3) \-)))))
18:38	Raynes	$(apply str (cons \newline (flatten (interpose \+(repeat 3 (repeat (* width 3) \-)))))
18:38	sexpbot	EOF while reading
18:38	Raynes	$(apply str (cons \newline (flatten (interpose \+(repeat 3 (repeat (* width 3) \-))))))
18:38	sexpbot	DENIED!
18:38	stribb	oops, maybe add another right paren
18:39	Raynes	Probably width.
18:39	Raynes	$(apply str (cons \newline (flatten (interpose \+(repeat 3 (repeat (* 5 3) \-))))))
18:39	sexpbot	=> "\n---------------+---------------+---------------"
18:39	Raynes	Yep.
18:40	stribb	to my eyes it's so full of lispisms that it hides the meaning. apply, flatten, cons are obscuring the thing I'm trying to show
18:41	stribb	I'm translating http://norvig.com/sudoku.html and here's the relevant line in Python
18:41	sexpbot	"Solving Every Sudoku Puzzle"
18:41	stribb	line = '\n' + '+'.join(['-'(width3)]*3)
18:41	danlarkin	sexpbot: your html parsing is so impressive
18:42	joshua-choi	Question: Is there a function for forcing a lazy sequence to fully evaluate? (I need to do this because resolve uses a re-bind-ed var.)
18:42	moshisushi	it's not possible to do pattern matchin (out-of-the-box, that is) in clojure, right?
18:42	Raynes	danlarkin: When I said sophisticated, I was referring to the blacklisting. :p
18:43	joshua-choi	moshisushi: Clojure has support for Java's regular expressions. The literal syntax is #"...".
18:43	Raynes	I need to get around to writing in something that checks the title and URL for similarities, in case of redundant titles.
18:43	remleduff	joshua-choi: doall ?
18:44	joshua-choi	remleduff: Eh. I need the whole evaluated sequence, not to do some side effect.
18:44	moshisushi	joshua-choi: hum.. i mean pattern matching as in Haskell / ML
18:44	pjstadig	~meap
18:44	clojurebot	Manning missed the opportunity to call it Manning Early Access Trial
18:44	joshua-choi	moshisushi: Ah. Don't know as much about that. Clojure does have destructuring in let and let-like forms, though.
18:46	joshua-choi	remleduff: I am super frustrated, because I found that the source of a bug I've been searching for the past four hours is because 1. map is lazy and 2. resolve uses ns. If you have (map resolve vars) in one namespace and happen to evaluate the sequence in another, you will get a lot of strange NullPointerExceptions. :(
18:46	remleduff	doall is intended to do that, it returns the fully realized sequence
18:46	Raynes	$learn meap http://www.manning.com/fogus/
18:46	sexpbot	My memory is more powerful than M-x butterfly. I wont forget it.
18:47	joshua-choi	remleduff: Oh, does it? Excellent. I confused it with doseq.
18:47	joshua-choi	I'm still seething about that bug though
18:47	remleduff	Yeah, a lot of people have been caught by map and for being lazy
18:47	remleduff	Worth it in the end though
18:48	Borkdude	maybe it should be called smth with "force"
18:48	Borkdude	it's the first thing I would search for
18:48	Borkdude	force-all
18:49	joshua-choi	remleduff: No, I don't have a problem at all with lazy map; I love it. My problem is much more with binding-context-sensitive resolve. Functions that depend on variables are a huge source of accidental complexity in Clojure. :(
18:49	joshua-choi	Oh well, I'm just glad I figured it out. :)
18:49	joshua-choi	(And when I say "functions that depend on variables", I mean mutable variables to be bound.)
18:50	remleduff	Yeah, I think binding is my current uncertainty with clojure
18:51	remleduff	Your other option if you had wanted to keep laziness is to do (let [ns ns] (map... etc))
18:52	joshua-choi	Yeah. I'm thinking that I probably want to not use resolve at all if I can help it
18:52	remleduff	Borkdude: force is already with delay (which I've not used yet)
18:54	duncanm	hmm, i'm running jvisualvm on a batch job that i wrote in clojure
18:54	duncanm	the loaded class count just keeps going up and up
18:54	duncanm	is that a good thing? bad thing?
18:54	remleduff	Do you use "eval" a lot?
18:55	remleduff	If the class count goes up and not down, you can run out of PermGen
18:55	clojurebot	AOT genclass is http://paste.lisp.org/display/70665 and http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2008-11-18.html#14:19
18:55	stribb	bah, I hate my broadband
18:55	duncanm	remleduff: i don't use any eval
18:55	Borkdude	remleduff: that's true, but there is some similarity between lazy seq and delay/force maybe?
18:56	Borkdude	I only just read about it
18:56	remleduff	gotta run, later all, happy weekend :)
18:56	duncanm	hmm
18:56	Borkdude	ok bye remleduff
19:01	danlarkin	$((fn this [] (try :foo (finally (this)))))
19:01	sexpbot	Execution Timed Out!
19:02	pjstadig	$meap
19:02	sexpbot	Command not found. No entiendo lo que estás diciendo.
19:02	pjstadig	$recall meap
19:02	sexpbot	Command not found. No entiendo lo que estás diciendo.
19:02	danlarkin	((fn this [] (try :foo (finally (this)))))
19:02	danlarkin	((fn this [] (try :foo (finally (this)))))
19:03	danlarkin	$((fn this [] (try :foo (finally (this)))))
19:03	danlarkin	$((fn this [] (try :foo (finally (this)))))
19:03	danlarkin	$((fn this [] (try :foo (finally (this)))))
19:03	danlarkin	$((fn this [] (try :foo (finally (this)))))
19:03	sexpbot	Execution Timed Out!
19:03	sexpbot	Execution Timed Out!
19:03	sexpbot	Execution Timed Out!
19:03	sexpbot	Execution Timed Out!
19:04	KirinDave	...
19:05	KirinDave	poor sexpbot
19:05	Raynes	He's spammed it in PM, and got it stuck in a loop.
19:05	danlarkin	poor us to have to suffer its link titling!
19:05	Raynes	Eh?
19:05	stribb	ok, cheerio chaps
19:06	Raynes	More people like it or don't mind it than people dislike it.
19:07	pjstadig	i think the link titling is a bit spamish
19:07	Raynes	How so?
19:07	bmason	Raynes: or they just don't want to hurt sexpbot's feelings
19:07	Raynes	Not nearly enough links are posted in here, and the titles aren't nearly long enough to be "spamish".
19:07	pjstadig	if i want to see a title, i will click on the link
19:08	pjstadig	usually there is enough context when someone posts a link to know what it is about
19:08	Borkdude	as long as it's not doing ads, I'm find with the titles... and it saves me a click if the title doesn't sound interesting to me
19:08	Raynes	If people want it off, I'll happily turn it off, but several people have told me it's useful in here, and that's why it's on.
19:08	AWizzArd	you can just /ignore the bot
19:08	Raynes	If rhickey wants it off, I'll turn it off. I'm not unfair.
19:08	bmason	:-)
19:08	pjstadig	people want it off
19:08	Raynes	It just doesn't seem to bother anyone. :\
19:08	Raynes	Until now anyway.
19:09	Raynes	pjstadig: I mean more than two.
19:09	Raynes	Or Rich. Rich is more than two.
19:09	pjstadig	how many?
19:09	Raynes	In a poll, the person with the most votes wins.
19:09	pjstadig	we'll get a petition
19:09	bmason	lol
19:09	Raynes	Go for it.
19:09	scgilardi	polling is not idiomatic in clojure
19:10	Borkdude	Raynes: why don't you make $upvote title, when it's positive, the titles appear ;)
19:10	pjstadig	first you have to tell me how many we need to get
19:10	Borkdude	and of course $downvote title
19:10	bmason	maybe it will be a lazy poll
19:10	Raynes	pjstadig: 15-20. Even chouser said he doesn't mind it/hasn't formed an opinion.
19:10	Raynes	You aren't actually going to start a petition, are you?
19:11	duncanm	i know how to write Scheme macros, but i don't know them in Clojure
19:11	duncanm	i'm tyring to write a macro so that (write some-form-here) expands into (.add writer some-form-here)
19:11	bmason	(defmacro name form)
19:11	bmason	,(doc defmacro)
19:11	clojurebot	"([name doc-string? attr-map? [params] body] [name doc-string? attr-map? ([params] body) + attr-map?]); Like defn, but the resulting function name is declared as a macro and will be used as a macro by the compiler when it is called."
19:11	duncanm	i tried macroexpanding to test, how do i make sure i get the binding of 'writer' correctly?
19:12	duncanm	i want it to bind to the local binding of 'writer', not some global binding
19:12	zakwilson	The docs for defmacro are not very helpful for someone not familiar with CL-style macros.
19:12	bmason	is writer a stream?
19:12	pjstadig	i'm not sure we need two bots in here
19:12	pjstadig	maybe we should have a bot cage fight
19:12	Raynes	I'll also point out that clojurebot has some rather random comments sometimes. At least sexpbot's are useful to /some/ people. ;)
19:13	duncanm	bmason: it's an XMLEventWriter
19:13	Raynes	sexpbot has been here for like 2 months. :\
19:13	pjstadig	so you're saying that clojurebot's comments are not useful to anyone?
19:13	Borkdude	duncanm: (defmacro dude [w f] `(.add ~w ~@ f)) ?
19:14	Borkdude	sorry, no space between ~@ and f
19:14	Raynes	pjstadig: I'm talking about the comments that aren't invoked purposely. clojurebot says stuff when people say certain things. If we're going to have this conversation, come to #clojure-casual so we stop disrupting conversation here. :(
19:14	bmason	yeah, Borkdude's suggestion would work if you want to provide the writer as an argument
19:14	duncanm	Borkdude: i don't want to explicitly pass the 'w'
19:15	duncanm	bmason: i have (let [writer ..., write #(.add writer %)] ...) in my code right now
19:15	duncanm	and i think that #(...) is generating a lot of unnecessary code, cuz this is being called inside a loop
19:15	bmason	so you're saying a var bound in the surrounding context isn't available?
19:15	danlarkin	no dudes come to #clojure-awesome
19:15	danlarkin	it's way better
19:16	AWizzArd	duncanm: btw, you can add a type hint there
19:16	duncanm	AWizzArd: but that same Fn will still get generated every time, right?
19:16	bmason	oh, well "let" doesn't do a binding... that may be your problem
19:16	AWizzArd	yes
19:17	Raynes	danlarkin: Thanks for clojure-json by the way. sexpbot uses it all over the place. <3
19:17	Borkdude	wasn't &env invented for this problem?
19:19	bmason	danlarkin: might be easier to see what you're doing with a full example
19:20	hiredman	~foo
19:20	clojurebot	foo is is Short, Self Contained, Correct (Compilable), Example http://sscce.org/
19:24	remleduff	$eval ns
19:24	sexpbot	DENIED!
19:24	Raynes	I hate that "Hey, you can't change your nick until you identify" but you can't identify until you change your nick.
19:26	remleduff	joshua-choi: I think I lied earlier about (let [ns ns]...) actually doing anything you'd want
19:28	remleduff	That's fine if you're using ns locally, but wouldn't have any effect when calling resolve
19:49	kencausey	I don't suppose anyone has any idea if it is possible to run a clojure/compojure app under GoDaddy basic web hosting? The mention Java in some places, JSP in others, I'm not much of a Java guru and am not clear on whether I would be able to run a clojure app in the environment. Anyone have any experience here?
19:54	lancepantz	kencausey: http://help.godaddy.com/article/67
19:54	sexpbot	"Can I deploy my application using a war file? - Search the Go Daddy Help Center"
19:55	lancepantz	looks like you better have it how you want it at 1am, messed up
19:58	kencausey	thanks, am I safe in assuming they have new enough versions for it to work? they tend to lag a bit
20:00	lancepantz	yeah, build a war file that complies with the servlet spec and it shouldn't be a problem
20:01	lancepantz	i have a basic example with compojure 0.4 on github, http://github.com/lancepantz/lein-war-example
20:01	kencausey	ok, thanks
20:25	_brian2_	noob question> Hi , I'm trying to grok the relationship between handlers and routes in compojure, ( http://clojure.pastebin.com/rijB4Fag ) according to the author the new compojure defers handlers to Ring, but uses routes, which do more or less the same thing, (returning a response map), however as far as I can tell, you cant call a handler function in a route
20:41	joshua-choi	remleduff: Yeah, I figured as much. I would really like someone close to Hickey to write how binding's large disadvantages don't outweigh whatever advantages it does give. But now I think I'll watch out for this error better.
20:58	remleduff	_brian2_: Which are you calling a handler and which are you calling a route?
20:59	_brian2_	on the pastebin, app is the handler, and defroutes are routes, as I undersand it
21:02	remleduff	handlers take a request map, and return a response map. defroutes, returns a handler. The route macros return various things and has a multimethod that can format it into a response map, but they don't use straight ring maps
21:03	remleduff	You could wrap! your routes with app though in your example
21:04	remleduff	But you'd only get hello world after that ;0
21:04	remleduff	There's a #compojure channel as well
21:04	_brian2_	oh, cool!
21:09	_brian2_	remleduff : at first, (I probably need to read more about the request map), but I just want to send user input into a database retrieval function
21:10	_brian2_	Its just 10 categories of finite responses I was going to use routes, but thats probably not the best way
21:10	_brian2_	?
21:10	remleduff	Ring works by having a list of handlers, they each get a shot at the request map and return a response map if they want to handle it
21:10	remleduff	defroutes abstracts that, the (GET) macro returns a handler
21:13	_brian2_	ok, but like (GET "/" [] app) ; where 'app' is handler compojure doesn't seem to like this
21:14	remleduff	GET creates handlers
21:14	remleduff	It doesn't call them
21:14	_brian2_	ok
21:16	_brian2_	so I can call a an ordinary function (GET "/" [] funct[state1] ) ?
21:17	_brian2_	that returns some renedring?
21:17	_brian2_	rendering
21:17	remleduff	Yep
21:18	_brian2_	oh, ok. Thanks!
21:19	_brian2_	remleduff : thank you
22:11	lancepantz	alexyk: jiraph is now using lein and on clojars
22:16	remleduff	Do you know of a good tutorial about graph databases, including when you'd want to use one?
22:18	alexyk	lancepantz: awesome! you guys won
22:19	alexyk	t believe which other functional language supports tokyo cabinet and google protocol buffers too
22:19	alexyk	:)
22:20	lancepantz	remleduff: ignoring the implementation, http://neo4j.org/doc/ has some good resources
22:20	sexpbot	"neo4j open source nosql graph database » Documentation"
22:20	alexyk	lancepantz: I was thinking of using the interoperable format to speed up huge walks, and looked for a compiled language with both bindings
22:20	alexyk	alas ocaml has neither
22:20	lancepantz	remleduff: this one is informative http://dist.neo4j.org/neo-technology-introduction.pdf
22:21	alexyk	but some language git them :)
22:21	alexyk	got them
22:21	lancepantz	remleduff: note that jiraph has different pros and cons than neo4j, namely that it does not support transactions and is roughly 10x faster than the benchmarks published
22:22	alexyk	jiraph rocks
22:22	remleduff	Thanks :)
22:22	lancepantz	alexyk: c++ :)
22:22	alexyk	lancepantz: well, that's like an assembly... FP!
22:23	alexyk	some formidable and glorious language!
22:23	alexyk	to which we all aspire to
22:23	lancepantz	hahaha
22:23	alexyk	when we're not going drinking
22:23	alexyk	ok it's Haskell
22:23	alexyk	and it just got an LLVM back end which makes it numerically beat C
22:24	alexyk	so I'll need to teach Haskell to read map and set extensions and then it'll eat jiraphs for breakfast
22:24	alexyk	first I need to learn it though :)
22:24	alexyk	I like interop
22:25	lancepantz	alexyk: it has tc and protobuf support?
22:25	alexyk	lancepantz: yep!
22:25	alexyk	http://hackage.haskell.org/package/tokyocabinet-haskell
22:25	alexyk	http://hackage.haskell.org/package/protocol-buffers
22:26	alexyk	the protobufs understand extensions, but I guess I need to teach it what map and set are
22:27	alexyk	lancepantz: so I guess geni will run on HAppS stack soon :)
22:27	alexyk	and be hosted at patch-tag.com :)
22:28	lancepantz	hahaha
22:28	lancepantz	haskell just looks like gobldey gook to me
22:34	alexyk	but, liebke joined! :)
23:04	riddochc	Opinions requested: which of the editors with Clojure support least requires the use of a keyboard?
23:07	riddochc	I tried emacs again yesterday for the first time in a few years, and it just isn't very accessible for someone who's mostly limited to using pointer-based interfaces.
23:11	riddochc	Oh, well. Trying netbeans+enclojure now...
23:17	bmason	if I have a java object with methods getCount and getPart(n) is there an idiomatic way to convert the parts to a sequence?
23:19	bmason	e.g. in java it would be for (i = 0; i < obj.getCount(); i++) {obj.getPart(i);}
23:19	bmason	I'd prefer not to have to iterate a variable, but it looks like that's the interface I'm given...
23:20	riddochc	bmason: I'd probably make loop/recur returning a lazy-seq, given the lack of any other iterator over your collection.
23:21	bmason	k
23:28	riddochc	Alternatively... hm. you could (map #(.getPart %) (range ...))
23:29	riddochc	Or something similar, mapping over the seq of numbers up to .getCount.
23:55	bmason	riddochc: I like that