#clojure – 2010-05-15

2010-05-15

00:06	notostraca	For some reason I can't send messages on my other computer, so here goes: Leiningen is setting my hair on fire.
00:06	notostraca	I have gotten a variety of error messages, most recently and frequently something about ant's taskdefs
00:09	ninjudd	notostraca: what version are you using?
00:09	notostraca	1.1.0
00:09	notostraca	I am getting the paste set up
00:11	notostraca	http://pastebin.com/kr9J9Zme
00:14	notostraca	Should I be using the master branch?
00:17	ninjudd	notostraca: not sure. i'm getting error with lein 1.1 on my machine to
00:17	ninjudd	though they are totally different errors
00:17	notostraca	Oh I really should have mentioned that I am on windows... that was the main thing...
00:17	notostraca	I can get it to work on my mac
00:18	notostraca	but it refuses to work on win
00:18	ninjudd	cygwin?
00:19	notostraca	good idea
00:19	ninjudd	try: http://github.com/teropa/leiningen
00:26	notostraca	ninjudd: for some reason I have part of cygwin on my machine but not all of it -- probably because I upgraded to windows 7 but did not reinstall cygwin
01:23	technomancy	ninjudd: did that fork help for you?
01:23	technomancy	I can apply those changes now. I just can't do much on my own since I can't test on Windows.
01:24	ninjudd	technomancy: no, i don't use windows
01:24	technomancy	oh, sorry. must be getting my IRC conversations mixed up.
01:24	ninjudd	just saw that fork and thought it might help notostraca
01:25	notostraca	technomancy: I did see a new fork earlier
01:25	notostraca	hm, cygwin is still reinstalling
02:43	notostraca	crud
02:43	notostraca	leiningen on cygwin is having some issues
02:44	notostraca	I am using teropa's cygwin fork
02:44	notostraca	and it seems to look for \dev\null
02:44	notostraca	not /dev/null
06:15	Chousuke	http://data-sorcery.org/2010/05/14/infix-math/ somebody had to do it :P
06:15	sexpbot	"Infix mathematical notation in Incanter « Data Sorcery with Clojure"
06:15	Chousuke	I like the vector/matrix ops though.
06:26	schemer999	following clojure seems like a full time job ;)
06:26	schemer999	re: infix math.
06:26	schemer999	so much great stuff.
06:28	Chousuke	disclojure.org and planet.clojure.in and the clojure pipe are helpful :P
07:57	naeu	If i have a vector, how would I split it into two vectors: one that contains the list of els that match a given conditional function and another that contains the list of els that doesn't match it
07:57	Fossi	contrib split-with or such
08:01	naeu	Fossi: that only seems to work when the vector is already sorted into the two sets, and it just needs to partition them
08:02	naeu	ooh, looks like i can use filter
08:18	chouser	(doc group-by)
08:18	clojurebot	"([f coll]); Returns a sorted map of the elements of coll keyed by the result of f on each element. The value at each key will be a vector of the corresponding elements, in the order they appeared in coll."
08:19	raph_amiard	hi there
08:20	raph_amiard	i'm searching for a simple way to interact with a telnet server in clojure
08:20	raph_amiard	anybody has interresting leads for me ?
08:25	naeu	is there a clojure equivalent of Ruby's compact? Or should I roll my own: (filter (complement nil?) sequence)
08:49	Chousuke	naeu: (remove nil? sequence) is somewhat better :)
08:49	naeu	Chousuke: indeed it is...
08:49	kotarak	Isn't there now keep?
08:50	naeu	it'll be a while before Clojure's complete suite of functions are cached in my brain :-)
08:50	naeu	it's always great to find new ones
08:52	Chousuke	oh, right, keep.
08:52	Chousuke	hmm
08:52	Chousuke	new in 1.2 though
09:26	raph_amiard	hi
09:26	raph_amiard	i'm getting a strange error when i try to launch swank-clojure-project in emacs
09:27	raph_amiard	java.lang.Exception: No such var: swank.swank/start-server (NO_SOURCE_FILE:5)
09:27	raph_amiard	just after running a 'lein deps' command
09:31	zakwilson	I'm not sure if swank-clojure-project knows where to find swank-clojure. I've been using lein swank in the shell followed by slime-connect in Emacs.
09:32	raph_amiard	ok i'm gonna try that
09:32	raph_amiard	it worked 10 seconds ago though
09:32	raph_amiard	maybe some kind of update in swank-clojure ?
09:33	zakwilson	It sounds more like a classpath issue, but I'm no expert on this. Upon finding that lein swank does what I want, I started doing that and haven't bothered to research further.
09:35	raph_amiard	lein swank doesn't exist in lein 1.1.0 right ?
09:36	raph_amiard	i didn't change my classpath or anything, i just added a dep to my project.clj file and ran lein update
09:44	zakwilson	I think the swank command is an addon for lein. Should be easy to find if you google it.
09:52	raph_amiard	zak: thank you
10:42	heaumer	hi, i'm having a problem with assoc function: http://paste.awesom.eu/lwylchtuh&hl=clojure; does anyone understand why the second call doesn't (seem) to work as the first one ?
10:47	Chousuke	heaumer: it's working just right as far as I can tell
10:47	Chousuke	heaumer: maybe you meant to assoc a key that is not in the map already?
10:48	heaumer	Chousuke: indeed :p
10:58	naeu	what's a good way of mapping one map to another?
10:59	naeu	Is there a way to do it with destructuring?
11:16	elean	why it is not possible to do #([%]) ?
11:18	Chousuke	because #(...) expands to (fn [] (...))
11:18	Chousuke	and a vector doesn't work a a nullary function :P
11:19	elean	hm but I am able to do
11:19	elean	fn [a] [a]
11:20	Chousuke	yes. that's different.
11:20	elean	oh
11:20	Chousuke	(fn [] [a]) <- no parentheses around [a]
11:20	naeu	elean: I was looking at exactly the same thing and being surprised in exactly the same way 5 mins ago, so you're not alone :-)
11:20	mefesto	elean: i dunno the "why" but you could do: #(vector %)
11:20	Chousuke	that works because vector is a function
11:21	rhudson	,(macroexpand-1 '#(foo %1 %2))
11:21	clojurebot	(fn* [p1__16487 p2__16488] (foo p1__16487 p2__16488))
11:21	mefesto	which i guess you could just dump the annon func and simple use vector instead
11:21	elean	mefesto: yep I just discovered that .. and you can even drop whole #() then
11:21	Chousuke	you can think of # turning the function call/macro call expression into a function
11:21	mefesto	hah
11:21	Chousuke	rhudson: it's not even macroexpand
11:21	Chousuke	,'#(foo %1)
11:21	clojurebot	(fn* [p1__16492] (foo p1__16492))
11:21	rhudson	But it can't be that it always goes to fn [] -- it obviously pays attention to the %s
11:22	Chousuke	well, yeah, I simplified the thing a bit.
11:22	rhudson	A bit too much, I opine
11:22	Chousuke	the main point is that the expression that is made into a function is not what goes in the list, but it IS the list
11:23	naeu	ooh, I love the word opine
11:23	Chousuke	so if you do #(foo bar) it's not "foo bar" being made into a function, but (foo bar)
11:23	elean	Chousuke: oh I guess I get that now :)
11:24	elean	Chousuke: I did try to write: fn [a] ([a]) and it does throw the same exception
11:24	elean	Chousuke: thx
11:24	Chousuke	yeah.
11:24	Ankou	hi, is it possible to unload something?
11:24	naeu	so, what's the idiomatic way of mapping one map to another? Is it to use reduce?
11:24	Chousuke	naeu: use into
11:24	Chousuke	(into {} (map (fn [[k v]] ...) somemap))
11:25	naeu	Chousuke: what would you place in the body of that function?
11:25	Chousuke	or you can use contrib's fmap
11:25	naeu	that's the thing that's confusing me
11:25	Chousuke	naeu: something that returns [k v] or {k v}
11:25	elean	these are the things that annoy me when coming to a different language .. like I was angry I can't find "zip" method (as scala's zip)
11:25	Chousuke	where k and v of course don't have to be the parameters k and v :P
11:26	elean	and then I discover all I have to do is (map list a b c)
11:26	elean	and now it's just amazing
11:26	Chousuke	hmm
11:27	Chousuke	,(conj {:foo :bar} {:a :b :c :d})
11:27	clojurebot	{:c :d, :a :b, :foo :bar}
11:27	Chousuke	interesting.
11:28	Chousuke	naeu: so apparently you can return [k v] to have a single key/value pair in the result, or an entire map of things to conjoin into the result
11:28	naeu	oh nice
11:29	Chousuke	into probably uses reduce internally but it also uses transients so it's faster than just simply using (reduce conj ...)
11:36	defn	anyone here doing BDD with clojure?
12:46	technomancy	hugod: hey, I'm thinking about doing the 1.2.0 release of swank-clojure soon. should I wait for the autodoc/hyperdoc issues to be resolved?
12:48	AWizzArd	technomancy: don't wait please :-)
13:12	hugod	technomancy: I'm not going to get to it very soon - don't wait for me...
13:31	LauJensen	Good evening all
13:32	hamza	evening..
13:44	LauJensen	Anybody strong in nginx rewrite rules who can spend a couple of minz with me ?
13:44	chouser	there's no function to apply a change to a thread-bound var, is there?
13:46	chouser	you always need to do like: (set! print-length (inc print-length))
13:48	LauJensen	chouser: alter-var-root is not for thread-bound ?
13:49	Chousuke	it alters the root value
13:49	Chousuke	curiously enough, it doesn't affect thread-bound values :)
13:49	LauJensen	oh
13:51	Borkdude	do functions always run in their own thread?
13:51	Borkdude	because I am a little confused about thread-bound. does binding spawn a new thread?
13:55	notostraca	any leiningen users here know why "leiningen run" works but "lein uberjar" followed by "java -jar " and the generated jar will not work?
13:55	notostraca	I am trying to get a jar of mire
13:55	notostraca	the one from the peepcode screencast?
13:56	notostraca	the :main namespace is set to mire.server and that works for lein run
13:56	notostraca	err
13:56	notostraca	not leiningen run, lein run
13:57	notostraca	but I get a claspath exception when I run the uberjar
13:58	notostraca	Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: mire/server
13:58	chouser	Borkdude: functions run in the same thread that calls them. thread-bound refers to a specific feature of the Var reference type.
13:59	chouser	Anyone here going to my talk in Chicago next week?
14:00	notostraca	chouser: if I say yes, would you believe me?
14:01	notostraca	what is it about?
14:01	chouser	notostraca: I wouldn't know why not to. :-)_
14:01	chouser	clojure's treatment of concurrency
14:01	chouser	I'll be discussing, among other things, what thread-bound vars are for.
14:01	notostraca	sounds worthwhile, but I will be in sunny southern California
14:02	chouser	ah, well. Plenty of other Clojure stuff going on in that vicinity I would imagine.
14:02	notostraca	I suppose, I haven't yet looked
14:03	chouser	Less here in the Illinois/Indiana locale.
14:03	chouser	I should try to get over to one of the Ohio meetups sometime.
14:03	notostraca	Silicon Valley is pretty far north when you account for traffic
14:04	chouser	still closert than it is to here. :-) But you're right, I tend to underestimate distances within California.
14:04	notostraca	yeah, traffic is an abysmal beast
14:04	notostraca	I once saw a garbage truck overturned on the freeway as I drove past on the other side
14:05	notostraca	the freeway on their side was a parking lot for over a mile, probably two
14:05	notostraca	and the backup was only growing...
14:06	chouser	bleh
14:06	notostraca	but other than traffic and earthquakes, southern california is pretty nice
14:06	LauJensen	You can get pretty cheap helicopters in the US though
14:06	chouser	I'm happy I drive to/through Chicago less than I used to. I hardly ever deal with traffic of any kind.
14:06	notostraca	talking about earthquakes, I have been hearing about "The Big One" coming for probably most of my life
14:07	notostraca	but so far, it has just been Northridge and that other one, and I was very young when those happened
14:08	notostraca	chouser: have you looked at Joaml's model for concurrency?
14:08	notostraca	err, JoCaml
14:09	notostraca	http://jocaml.inria.fr/
14:09	sexpbot	"The JoCaml system"
14:10	chouser	nope. I did learn OCaml once upon a time, but I don't think I did anything concurrent with it.
14:10	notostraca	it would probably make more sense to you than it does to me
14:11	notostraca	but Join Calculus is supposed to be very powerful
14:11	notostraca	as in, 1-line change to make a parallel program a distributed parallel program
14:11	chouser	ooh, magic!
14:11	arohner	notostraca: yes, but how well does it run?
14:12	notostraca	faster than Erlang by a factor of 2
14:12	Borkdude	hmm, did anyone answer my 'threads' question in the mean time?
14:12	arohner	notostraca: I'm sure it's possible, but I'm highly skeptical that you can convert a shared memory program to a distributed memory one, and have it run well in the general case
14:12	notostraca	http://eigenclass.org/hiki/fast-widefinder
14:12	sexpbot	"eigenclass - Aim for the Top! Beating the former #1 Wide Finder log analyzer with the join-calculus."
14:13	arohner	Borkdude: no, functions don't always run in their own thread. binding affects the current thread
14:13	arohner	Borkdude: vars have 1) a root value 2) an optional thread-local value
14:13	notostraca	arohner: yeah, it probably just treats memory for multiple cores as if they are multiple machines
14:13	arohner	reading var says "does the current thread have a thread-local value? if not, return the root value"
14:14	notostraca	but there is some serious behind-thepscenes magic going on
14:14	arohner	Borkdude: binding sets the thread-local value of the var, for the duration of the binding
14:15	Borkdude	arohner: am I right when I say that you can def from only one "mother" thread, program-wise?
14:15	arohner	Borkdude: no, you can def from anywhere (I'm not aware of anywhere you can't def from)
14:16	Borkdude	so if you have a thread A in which you def a, and spawn a thread, and def a again, what is the root value of a?
14:16	Borkdude	spawn a thread B, in which you def a again
14:17	arohner	Borkdude: the last def wins
14:17	arohner	though in general, you shouldn't be re-defing
14:17	Borkdude	arohner: do thread A and B each have their own root value for a?
14:17	arohner	no, there's only one root value for a given var
14:18	arohner	but they can each have their own thread local value
14:18	Borkdude	so if you re-def in B, the root value in A get's changed?
14:18	arohner	yes
14:18	Borkdude	ok
14:21	Borkdude	arohner: I try this: (do (def a 1) (future def a 2) (println a))
14:21	Borkdude	arohner: it says it can't resolve def
14:22	arohner	Borkdude: def is a special form. It only works as (def a 1)
14:23	arohner	Borkdude: if you really want to change the value of a, use alter-var-root!
14:23	arohner	*the root value
14:23	arohner	though for most stateful changes, it would be better to make a point to an atom or ref
14:23	Borkdude	arohner: "you can def from anywhere (I'm not aware of anywhere
14:23	Borkdude	you can't def from)"
14:23	notostraca	http://jocaml.inria.fr/manual/distributed.html
14:23	sexpbot	"Distributed programming"
14:23	Chousuke	Borkdude: def is not a function
14:23	notostraca	I can't find where I got 1-line, it seems like it is just a semi-standard thing that you just customize for the occasion
14:24	Chousuke	Borkdude: and future takes an expression anyway. You need to do (future (def a 2))
14:24	arohner	Borkdude: right. you can def in any thread. since def is not a function, (future def a 2) will break everywhere
14:24	notostraca	less than 15 lines though
14:24	Borkdude	o wait, Chousuke you're right
14:24	Borkdude	typo
14:24	Chousuke	Borkdude: but you don't want to do that. using def to overwrite old values is ugly.
14:24	arohner	a better way would be (do (def a (atom 1)) (future #(swap! a 2)) (println @a))
14:25	Borkdude	Chousuke: I realize that, I'm just trying to find out how it works
14:25	arohner	err, take the # out of my expression
14:25	Borkdude	That example I just gave (with typo corrected) prints 1 and sometimes 2
14:25	Borkdude	that's nice
14:25	arohner	Borkdude: right, it races on when the future finishes
14:26	arohner	sometimes the future will run before the println, sometimes not
14:26	Borkdude	arohner: so this demonstrates that re-def from another thread alters it everywhere yes
14:26	Borkdude	?
14:26	arohner	Borkdude: yes
14:27	notostraca	has anyone tried mire, or seen the peepcode screencast on clojure?
14:27	Borkdude	ok got it
14:28	notostraca	for that matter, have any users of leiningen run into trouble with NoClassDefFoundError s when they uberjar a project?
14:29	notostraca	it seems like a difference between lein run and lein uberjar
14:29	ninjudd	notostraca: are you in the LA area?
14:29	notostraca	yep
14:29	notostraca	pasadena-region
14:30	ninjudd	cool, lancepantz and i have been talking about getting some LA meetups together
14:31	Jevgeni	hi, I am using leiningen project. When I start swank-clojure-project and then (use 'core), then it tells be that file not found. The core.clj is under src.. what do I do wrongly?
14:31	notostraca	I managed to get an independent study at Pasadena City College (I attend there now) for haXe that since has evolved into Clojure -- I think the lab would tolerate a small meetup, though I would have to ask
14:32	notostraca	Jevgeni is probably getting the same error I am
14:32	ninjudd	i think we could probably use the conference room at my work too
14:32	ninjudd	we're in west hollywood
14:32	Jevgeni	ah, sorry, false alarm. double checked the file and noticed that this is in prj.core ..
14:32	notostraca	Jevgeni: were you getting "Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: mire/server"
14:32	notostraca	?
14:33	notostraca	except not mire/server
14:33	Jevgeni	notostraca> no, just FileNotFoundException
14:33	notostraca	oh, different thing then
14:34	ninjudd	notostraca: do you know other clojure people in the la area?
14:36	notostraca	ninjudd: not really, though I might be able to muster up some novices who want to learn it
14:38	notostraca	ninjudd: what days are you planning?
14:40	ninjudd	notostraca: haven't gotten that far. we're still trying to find clojure people other than us in the area
14:53	arohner	is there a way to detect that a given multimethod dispatch value will get the default?
14:54	arohner	I'd like to set a different default for certain dispatch values that don't have a specific implementation
14:55	arohner	oh, I guess I can use derive, right?
14:57	Jevgeni	I have problems with emacs/swank. I have a single file where I define 2 functions: deps which returns a number and "my-fun" which calls the reps. If I use "load file C-C C-L" then I can use "my-fun" from REPL. However, if I try to compile the my-fun separately (C-C C-C), then I get "Unable to resolve symbol: deps in this context [Thrown class java.lang.Exception]". Any hints what may be wrong?
15:04	Jevgeni	oh, strange, the problem was in the fact, than my (ns ..) contained some metadata before namespace definition. after removing it and putting the namespace on the same line with ns, it started to work..
15:05	arohner	Jevgeni: I think swank parses the file to figure out which ns you're in, for C-c C-c
15:05	arohner	otherwise it would eval your function in the current ns of the repl
15:06	Jevgeni	arohner: most probably. shall I report it somewhere or is it just a feature?
15:07	arohner	Jevgeni: I'm not sure. technomancy is the maintainer, he's on this channel often. I'd ask him before reporting it
15:39	SynrG	join #iccm
15:39	SynrG	meh
16:04	notostraca	OK, that was the error. Mire couldn't be turned into an executable jar because it didn't gen-class in its main namespace
16:04	notostraca	so with that fixed, poof, it works
16:32	LauJensen	cool
16:33	LauJensen	:)
17:04	somnium	pointless ml-style let-in to complement incanter's infix math (maybe worth a chuckle)
17:04	somnium	http://gist.github.com/402394
18:35	tcrayford	man tree-seq is confusing
19:50	tcrayford	cemerick: how's the work on that clojure dev environment spec going?
19:52	cemerick	tcrayford: it's hardly a real spec, just a summary / stream of consciousness
19:52	tcrayford	aye
19:52	cemerick	but yeah, it's in progress. I'll tweet it on Monday.
19:53	tcrayford	nice then
19:53	tcrayford	I've been working on some static code analysis (for fun), looking promising atm
20:17	cemerick	tcrayford: sounds good
20:18	cemerick	I took a tour through the rest of the plugins last night; pretty satisfied with my continued use of enclojure.
20:18	cemerick	counterclockwise is definitely the next best -- lots of potential there
20:22	rhudson	cemerick, did you try La Clojure (IntelliJ)? How did that compare?
20:24	cemerick	rhudson: not well, I'm afraid. The basic editor and such seem like a very good start, but I struggled and eventually failed to get a REPL going.
20:24	cemerick	I didn't thoroughly review either of them by any means -- just thrashed around for a while until I hit a hurdle tall enough I didn't want to try jumping.
20:25	cemerick	rhudson: you'd prefer an intellij environment, I presume?
20:26	rhudson	I got used to using IntellJ for Groovy development, and stuck with it for Clojure.
20:26	rhudson	When I first got into clojure, it seemed to get the most favorable mention among the IDEs
20:26	rhudson	So I wonder what I've been missing.
20:26	cemerick	rhudson: oh, so what's your impression/experience of the plugin?
20:26	rhudson	Everyone hereabouts seems to use emacs, but I'm not going back
20:27	rhudson	The editor is pretty decent. I like the highlighting of the function symbol if it can resolve it.
20:27	rhudson	And Cmd-B takes you to the declaration, even into the clojure-core.clj file.
20:28	rhudson	But it doesn't understand destructuring. I've filed a bug on that, haven't heard back yet.
20:28	cemerick	what do you mean by "function symbol"?
20:29	rhudson	f in (f a b c)
20:29	rhudson	sorry for bad terminology
20:30	rhudson	So it'll highlight f is it knows where f is declared. Except for the destructuring thing, it's pretty good about that
20:30	rhudson	[is it => if it]
20:32	cemerick	are you able to use the REPL?
20:34	rhudson	I haven't tried in some time. Mostly I want to run the code in the file I'm working on. It's good about that -- both the Run and Debug commands behave sensibly.
20:36	rhudson	Just started a REPL up. Seems to behave ok.
20:41	rhudson	Well, typing in the REPL seems to work OK. The other repl-related commands seem iffy at best. I'm starting to remember why I don't use its repl.
20:52	cemerick	rhudson: hrm, I only ever get "Clojure home path not configured correctly"
20:59	rhudson	When you set up a Project, you need to tell it you're using Clojure so it can create a Facet for that. When you do so, it asks you where to find the clojure.jar you want to use.
21:03	ninjudd	cemerick: just sent a message to clojure-dev. i couldn't reproduce the problem in NetBeans
21:03	cemerick	ninjudd: yeah, I'm composing a reply
21:03	cemerick	I really think you're playing with fire in general. :-)
21:03	cemerick	rhudson: yeah, I did that, and it said it had all the libraries it needed. Still getting the error. :-(
21:04	ninjudd	you mean with NativeClassLoader?
21:04	ninjudd	or with trying to fix this bug?
21:06	cemerick	well, I don't know enough about the matter at hand to say that there's a bug
21:06	cemerick	I'm talking more about the NCL.
21:07	ninjudd	fine, we can discuss that separately
21:07	ninjudd	it really has no bearing on this bug except that it revealed it
21:08	ninjudd	perhaps i should have started a separate thread once i found that use-context-classloader wasn't working
21:09	cemerick	is it not working? If you bind it to false, does clojure not use its own classloader?
21:11	ninjudd	the problem is that clojure doesn't use the context classloader when it is bound to true
21:11	ninjudd	once Compiler.LOADER is bound
21:11	cemerick	oh, I see
21:12	cemerick	you want to bind LOADER
21:12	ninjudd	no
21:12	cemerick	ha
21:13	ninjudd	LOADER gets bound no matter what
21:13	ninjudd	in the three places within Compiler that call makeClassLoader
21:14	ninjudd	any code that happens within those thread bindings though, doesn't obey use-context-classloader
21:14	cemerick	well, I shouldn't bother saying more unless I really go look at things.
21:15	cemerick	My presumption is that the context classloader is being used by default, insofar as our Netbeans RCP apps aren't going up in smoke. :-)
21:16	cemerick	Before the change of the default value of use-context-classloader, we had to bind it manually in our Java-based module bootstrap code in order to load any clojure code from other moduels.
21:16	cemerick	modules*
21:16	ninjudd	would you mind trying my fork in your setup?
21:17	tcrayford	woop, got static analysis of repetition in code working
21:17	ninjudd	or tell me how to get NetBeans to use a classloader that will break things
21:18	cemerick	tcrayford: sweetness :-)
21:18	cemerick	is that slime-only?
21:18	tcrayford	nope
21:18	tcrayford	its just a jar file
21:18	tcrayford	that runs via java -jar
21:18	cemerick	nice
21:19	tcrayford	it does analysis on symbols only atm
21:19	tcrayford	but is pretty sexy
21:19	cemerick	ninjudd: usually I'd say sure, but the build process for the apps in question isn't trivial. It'd be a couple hours to roll everything up from a custom clojure build :-(
21:19	cemerick	That's the last vestige of ant we have.
21:20	cemerick	ninjudd: I'm certain that Rich will ping back on Monday; he was @ training all last week. That'll probably be a quick yay or nay on your patches. :-)
21:20	chouser	tcrayford: what kind of static analysis?
21:20	ninjudd	any tips on how to configure NetBeans to your setup
21:20	cemerick	tcrayford: definitely pester the toolmakers about such things.
21:21	cemerick	ninjudd: You just need to create a netbeans module that wraps your build of clojure, and then create another module that depends on the clojure wrapper and loads some code.
21:21	tcrayford	chouser: it flies through your source code, looking for any AST nodes that are similar in different functions
21:22	ninjudd	cemerick: thanks, i'll play with it
21:24	tcrayford	clojure has all these nice things that makes writing tools like this really easy
21:30	chouser	tcrayford: oh, so it can suggest refactoring?
21:30	chouser	you're writing this in clojure so all the IDEs can borrow it, right? :-)
21:31	tcrayford	chouser: yeah
21:32	tcrayford	it just runs from a jar file atm (as mentioned above), might be a lein plugin at some point
21:32	defn	sigh...i finally start to feel really good with emacs and now i need to use vim for work
21:32	tcrayford	/me uses both vim and emacs daily
21:33	defn	dont you hit C-x and meta and stuff all the time?
21:33	tcrayford	nope
21:33	defn	smarter muscle memory than me
21:33	tcrayford	I guess my use is very split though
21:34	tcrayford	emacs for clojure, vim keybindings for everything else (ie no sexps)
21:34	defn	this isnt like casual editing in vim, it's like a full blown Rails IDE type thing
21:34	tcrayford	yeah
21:35	defn	i can hit A, i, :w, :x, etc. -- but this is heavy
21:35	tcrayford	about the same here (ish)
21:35	defn	anyway, shrug
21:35	tcrayford	rails.vim is so nice, so eh
21:35	cemerick	gawd, I'm gonna get so much hatemail on Monday :-D
21:35	defn	yeah i know i know -- they showed me how they use it in a pairing session yesterday and my jaw dropped
21:35	tcrayford	wherabouts you working?
21:36	defn	i see the value, i just kind of dislike filling my brain with vim stuff after i went to the trouble of getting emacs working
21:36	defn	Madison WI
21:36	tcrayford	(meant the company)
21:36	defn	Bendyworks
21:37	defn	small shop, 4-5 people, im not officially working there, just had a few pairing sessions so far, sort of auditioning i guess
21:37	tcrayford	about the same as the shop I'm apprenticing at over the summer then
21:37	defn	good word for -- id say im sort of an apprentice
21:37	defn	for it*
21:38	defn	they do all sorts of cool BDD + TDD + Continuous Integration stuff, of which there is very little in my area
21:38	tcrayford	aye, there's only like two-three places in the UK like that (that don't use .net/java)
21:39	tcrayford	does anybody have experience with using clojure.contrib.find-namespaces?
21:40	tcrayford	or any experience with lein's `test` implementation for that matter
21:43	defn	tcrayford: your refactoring stuff is cool as heck btw
21:43	defn	tcrayford: have you done any BDD/TDD with clojure?
21:43	chessguy	can someone explain to me how uncle bob's code at http://blog.objectmentor.com/articles/2010/05/15/clojure-prime-factors works? i'm confused
21:43	sexpbot	"Clojure Prime Factors"
21:43	defn	chessguy: more specific please
21:43	chessguy	is the [n]/[factors n candidates] thing some sort of pattern matching?
21:44	tcrayford	chessguy: will watch and tell
21:44	tcrayford	oh he didn't post the recording yet
21:44	tcrayford	chessguy: that's a function with different arity
21:44	defn	chessguy: it's just two different arities
21:45	tcrayford	so it cane take one argument (n)
21:45	tcrayford	or three arguments (factors, n, candidate)
21:45	tcrayford	now to beat that version
21:45	chessguy	oh wait
21:45	chessguy	duh, ok
21:45	chessguy	sorry
21:45	defn	no problem
21:45	chessguy	ignore me
21:45	tcrayford	nah its fine
21:45	tcrayford	you learn some
21:46	defn	i didnt know how that worked at first either
21:46	defn	i didnt know what arities were before actually
21:46	chessguy	i saw "of []" and was thinking he wasn't passing any arguments
21:46	chessguy	brain fart
21:46	tcrayford	heh
21:48	chessguy	is the number of parameters the only thing you can pattern-match that way on?
21:48	tcrayford	its not pattern matching
21:48	tcrayford	so don't think of it like that
21:48	chessguy	well, call it whatever you like
21:48	tcrayford	thinking about it closer, guess it is
21:48	defn	sort of yeah
21:48	tcrayford	yeah, you can get more using the matchjure library (which does full matching with macros and stuff)
21:48	hiredman	if you use a multimethod you can use any kind of function you want to dispatch
21:48	defn	it's more pattern matchish if you do stuff like [foo & bars]
21:49	chessguy	don't get me started on multimethods :)
21:49	defn	rodney dangerfield? is that you?
21:49	hiredman	why not?
21:49	defn	i tell ya i get no respect
21:49	defn	dont even get me started on multimethods!
21:50	chessguy	is there a link for matchjure
21:50	chessguy	google doesn't know of it
21:51	tcrayford	http://spin.atomicobject.com/2010/04/25/matchure-serious-clojure-pattern-matching
21:51	sexpbot	"Matchure: Serious Clojure Pattern Matching \| Atomic Spin"
21:51	tcrayford	turns out it was matchure
21:51	defn	that's just confusing
21:51	defn	if it doesnt have a j in it, it ain't clojure! :)
21:51	chessguy	lol
21:51	defn	leininjin
21:51	tcrayford	nah the one on lein new
21:52	tcrayford	leinjure
21:52	defn	haha oh no
21:52	defn	ive always wanted to do a project called ewq
21:52	defn	in fact i like the idea in general of selecting names for projects based on keyboard patterns
21:53	tcrayford	technomancy: ping
21:53	defn	awsedr for instance
22:13	technomancy	tcrayford: pong
22:13	technomancy	defn: svn is possibly the most awkward three consecutive letters possible to type in dvorak
22:17	defn	technomancy: yeah my combos wouldnt work for dvorak
22:17	technomancy	I've heard there's an aoeu system aiming to replace CL's asdf
22:19	tcrayford	technomancy: nvm for now I think, going to have to end up writing this as a lein plugin after all
22:19	defn	sounds like a real blockbuster event. the insanely large dvorak community will no doubt turn out for that one ;)
22:20	tcrayford	looks like loading clojure files from a jar is kinda funky
22:20	chouser	bleh. this talk is dull. I've got to figure out how to up my game.
22:21	tcrayford	you giving a talk?
22:29	tcrayford	I put my code for reporting clojure AST repetition on github, but pretty sure I just found a large bug in it
22:29	tcrayford	http://github.com/tcrayford/umbrella
22:29	defn	cool name for a project
22:30	defn	tcrayford: are you gonna roll refactoring and this together into a mode?
22:31	tcrayford	defn: no
22:31	tcrayford	defn: though this will likely steal some stuff from refactoring (the stuff about bound-vars inside an ast)
22:32	tcrayford	defn: I don't have the desire to learn enough elisp to make that a mode (or several)
22:33	defn	tcrayford: you gotta recruit technomancy or something
22:35	tcrayford	not sure he's that interested in tooling like this.
22:36	tcrayford	the java IDE's will overtake emacs at some point anyway
22:36	tcrayford	*IDEs
22:36	defn	people say that but ive never been happy with eclipse or netbeans :\
22:37	defn	i see why people say that, but i guess i dont think it's inevitable or something
22:38	tcrayford	if clojure ever gets big enough, the java IDE people can (and will) put in the work for that level of tool support
22:38	tcrayford	its pretty easy to do anyway, refactoring-mode proves that
22:39	technomancy	tcrayford: so it sounds like you ported flay? http://ruby.sadi.st/Flay.html
22:39	sexpbot	"Confessions of a Ruby Sadistsudo gem install flay"
22:39	tcrayford	not yet
22:39	tcrayford	it only works off the AST atm
22:40	tcrayford	but something like that, yeah
22:40	technomancy	slick!
22:41	tcrayford	cheers
22:41	tcrayford	fixing the rest of it so it doesn't rely on literal values as much shouldn't be too hard, given that there's code for doing that kinda stuff in refactoring-mode
22:44	tcrayford	the same stuff can probably be reworked to do flog (just have to decide on what metrics to use)
22:45	technomancy	tcrayford: I think it wouldn't be too hard to generalize clojure-test-mode's highlight-clojure-defns-based-on-info-from-swank functionality
22:46	technomancy	seems like you could get a lot of mileage out of that
22:46	tcrayford	and use that for similarity? I don't have character data available atm though
22:46	tcrayford	I guess you can highlight functions and then have the minibuffer stuff show what's similar
22:46	tcrayford	could be interesting
22:50	technomancy	yeah, just like c-t-m marks failures and lets you see the details when you ask for them
22:50	tcrayford	aye
23:13	lespea	So I'm in the process of doing the google code jams in clojure (did them in perl originally) and I'm stuck on how to do the theme-park the "right way" without it taking forever/a TON of memory. Here's my working code http://paste.lisp.org/+24M2 that has a fast way of doing it and an idiomatic one (get-income-fast and get-income) and I was wondering if anybody could help me with why the second version is so slow
23:15	tcrayford	as a tiny first off, replace the calls to apply with calls to reduce
23:16	ataggart	(set! warn-on-reflection true)
23:16	tcrayford	heh, I don't think that's his problem hre
23:16	tcrayford	*here
23:17	ataggart	prob not
23:17	ataggart	but I noticed no type hints even in parse-int
23:17	tcrayford	type-hints don't matter that much
23:17	ataggart	agreed
23:17	tcrayford	given that his his fast one is faster, and isn't hinted
23:18	lespea	for the most part, my program goes pretty fast except for the difference between get-income get-income-fast
23:18	lespea	as in get-income-fast is ~1 minute and the other one is >10
23:18	tcrayford	lespea: do you have tests for this?
23:18	lespea	and uses twice the memory (at least)
23:18	lespea	http://code.google.com/codejam/contest/dashboard?c=433101#s=p2
23:18	sexpbot	"Qualification Round 2010: Dashboard"
23:19	lespea	it runs correctly using either function
23:19	tcrayford	(meant clojure tests)
23:19	tcrayford	yeah
23:19	lespea	oh... no :S
23:19	lespea	haven't progressed that far in my clojure learning :(
23:21	tcrayford	can you give me some sample input for get-income?
23:21	tcrayford	like, the shortest possible you'd need to figure out it was doing the right thing
23:24	lespea	(def test-struct '(4 6 (1 4 2 1)))
23:24	lespea	(== (apply get-income test-struct) 21)
23:32	defn	lespea: there was a link the other day that was a table of clojure performance guarantees for various structures
23:35	lespea	Here is an example of the difference in timings (example from codejam) http://paste.lisp.org/+24M3
23:35	lespea	defn: yeah my program wasn't even running until I read up on lists and saw that nth is O(n) so I switched it to a vector and suddenly it worked :D
23:38	lespea	Could the problem be that `(iterate #(nth ride-map (first %)) [0, 0])` is saving the entire list in memory?
23:38	lespea	or is it not doing that?
23:40	defn	lespea: hmmmmmm, reading
23:40	defn	and you have type hinted this?
23:41	lespea	where would i do that? (and how haha)
23:41	lespea	in the 'reduce +' ?
23:42	defn	well, do you know how the typing works in clojure for numbers?
23:42	lespea	(oh btw the + shouldn't be there in the map, I was messing with stuff and accidentally didn't delete it before I put it on paste.lisp)
23:42	lespea	defn: not really
23:43	defn	im a little foggy myself, but basically you scale up the type as needed
23:43	defn	so if you add 1230123 to 123891281283 (not a real example, just pseudo)
23:43	defn	clojure will say oh, you have a new type here, and it makes it bigger
23:44	defn	err it uses the new type
23:44	defn	im failing to explain this correctly, someone save me :)
23:45	defn	lespea: long story short if you tell clojure that the argument it receives to a given function will always be a BigNum, it doesnt have to do any of the thinking involved to make it the right type
23:47	defn	lespea: (defn foo [#^String s] [(str s "!")])
23:47	defn	lespea: is this helping at all? :)
23:47	lespea	defn: ah, makese sense
23:47	lespea	defn: yeah
23:48	defn	lespea: so the other thing to consider, but to be very careful with are the unchecked functions
23:48	defn	unchecked-add, inc, raminder, dev, multiply, substract, divide, negate
23:48	defn	remainder*
23:49	lespea	defn: so I would do that in the reduce + ? so it knows that everything coming in is a bignum?
23:49	defn	like we were just talking about, clojure does some stuff in the background to make sure you have the type you need, scaling to a bignum if necessary
23:49	defn	unchecked-* don't enforce that check
23:49	lespea	ah
23:50	lespea	so should i change my Integer/parseInt to coercing to a bignum also?
23:50	defn	so you could potentially have a wrong answer, but if you know that it will never be larger than an Integer, then you could use unchecked-*
23:50	defn	lespea: that's a question i really dont know the answer to
23:50	defn	i know this stuff from reading bits and pieces here and there, but i dont have much experience with optimization with type hints and such
23:51	lespea	oh, well some of the answers are bigger than an int...
23:51	defn	lespea: do you have stuart's book?
23:51	defn	lespea: also, try checking out the clojure euler solutions wiki
23:51	defn	i bet there is some optimization stuff in there you could learn from
23:51	lespea	defn: no, should i get ti?
23:51	lespea	dern: I'll check that wiki out :)
23:52	technomancy	http://p.hagelb.org/swank-readme.html <= revamped the readme for swank-clojure 1.2.0; do you think it's clearer now?
23:52	sexpbot	"README.md"
23:52	defn	lespea: debatable since it's sort of 1.0 clojure and things have evolved quite a bit since then
23:52	defn	but he did have an optimization section i believe that basically pointed out the two things i just showed you, hinting and unchecked
23:52	technomancy	four different ways to connect (from the old version) seems like it was confusing people
23:56	defn	lespea: #(+ (second %)) looks kind of weird to me for some reason
23:57	lespea	defn: yeah that's the part I put into paste.lisp wrong <should just be #(second %)>
23:59	defn	do you need the rest on iterate?
23:59	defn	could you just do (take runs (iterate #(nth ride-map...)))
23:59	lespea	then it includes the [0 0]
23:59	defn	oh right