#clojure – 2010-04-03

2010-04-03

00:12	technomancy	riddochc: leiningen doesn't impose any version of clojure on you except for using the "lein repl" task, which is a known bug
00:12	technomancy	if you use nailgun or swank for your repls you won't have any issues
00:21	technomancy	hugod: hey, did you have more stuff in swank-clojure you wanted me to look at?
00:34	brian__	noob question: how do I do 2 things on true condition, this throws error after executing : (if (true? true) ((prn "y") (prn "yy")))
00:40	tensorpudding	brian__: you can wrap it in a do
00:40	brian__	ok tp
00:40	lancepantz	according to this http://osdir.com/ml/clojure/2010-03/msg00001.html keywords can only be alphanumeric
00:41	lancepantz	but i can't find any examples in which using non-alphanumeric characters cause any problems
00:42	lancepantz	is that spec still true?
01:12	technomancy	lancepantz: generally things like that mean "using only alphanumeric characters for keyword names is guaranteed to be safe for future versions of clojure"
01:12	technomancy	rather than "only alphas may be used"
01:13	lancepantz	i see
01:17	joshua-choi	,(> Double/POSITIVE_INFINITY 0)
01:17	clojurebot	true
01:17	joshua-choi	Is Double/POSITIVE_INFINITY stored in a standard clojure.core or clojure.contrib var?
01:17	joshua-choi	It is a useful value
01:20	tomoj	http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Double.html
01:20	tomoj	oh
01:20	tomoj	heh
01:20	tomoj	I misunderstood the question
02:20	TakeV	Is there a way to define a struct that also has all the keys of another struct?
02:40	defn	hmm, i have a (def myref (ref {})) that i conj onto inside a dosync naturally -- i watch the count of items that go into the ref, and it goes up up up, and then drops back down to 0 and starts growing again -- this is not the intended behavior
02:40	defn	i know that's vague -- but perhaps there is something about refs which i dont understand that might explain such behavior
02:42	Crowb4r	defn: do you ever actually sleep?
02:42	defn	Crowb4r: no, i dont believe so
02:42	defn	Crowb4r: at least not explicitly
02:43	defn	Crowb4r: i can show you some code
02:44	defn	http://gist.github.com/354197
02:44	defn	see: add-sexps
02:46	Crowb4r	hee hee conj sexp
02:46	defn	Crowb4r: i don't follow?
02:46	defn	ohhhhhhh ;)
02:47	defn	(use 'clojure.contrib.dick-streams)
02:47	Crowb4r	LMAO
02:49	Crowb4r	defn: So, I wonder what clears the ref
02:49	defn	me too! :)
02:49	defn	something is...wrong
02:50	Crowb4r	What is walton anyways?
02:51	defn	http://github.com/defn/walton
02:51	Crowb4r	ohh that seems cool
02:52	defn	if i can get this part fixed it will be way cooler ;)
02:52	Crowb4r	That would be amazingly helpful.
02:52	defn	there'll be a web interface and an irc bot
02:52	defn	fun fact: walton is indiana jones' middle name
02:52	Crowb4r	I'm trying to build an ircbot myself
02:53	defn	Crowb4r: i had a cool howto awhile back
02:54	defn	a very simple irc bot
02:54	defn	clojurebot is probably a great place to look but i havent started working on the bot yet
02:54	defn	in fact -- in lieu of fixing this bug i am going to do that :)
02:55	Crowb4r	Hey, you might know this. How come in emacs I can only get autocomplete to work on clojure and clojure.contrib and not any of the other libs I have in the path?
02:56	defn	as in auto-complete-mode?
02:57	defn	ohhh i see what you mean
02:57	defn	in your .clj file or in the REPL
02:57	defn	also, are you using fuzzy-completion with slime?
02:57	Crowb4r	probbably not
02:58	Crowb4r	I fired up a swank session from lein
03:00	defn	hmm, Crowb4r im not sure :\
03:00	defn	once you (use 'lib) it should let you complete
03:01	defn	at least on the library part, then i throw a / at the end like clojure.contrib.duck-streams/[TAB]
03:01	defn	to see its fns
03:01	Crowb4r	when I do C-c TAB, M-TAB or just TAB in the repl it only does those two libs.
03:03	tomoj	Crowb4r: are they available the repl?
03:03	tomoj	in the repl I mean
03:04	Crowb4r	Yeah, I can call them, but I can't auto complete them
03:04	Crowb4r	only what is in clojrue and clojure.contrib
03:05	tomoj	is one of those bound to slime-indent-and-complete-symbol?
03:05	tomoj	or something like it?
03:06	Crowb4r	let me look
03:06	defn	weee -- simple irc client working
03:06	tomoj	defn: what's the UI?
03:06	Crowb4r	according to the cheatsheet not.
03:06	tomoj	Crowb4r: C-h k TAB
03:06	tomoj	(and C-h k M-TAB, etc..)
03:07	defn	tomoj: my repl :)
03:07	tomoj	defn: ah, heh
03:07	tomoj	I wish I could make curses tools with clojure
03:07	defn	hi
03:07	defn	oops :)
03:07	tomoj	curses-style I mean
03:08	Crowb4r	"It is bound to ^C TAB, ⌥TAB, <menu-bar> <SLIME> <Complete Symbol>."
03:08	Crowb4r	slime-complete-symbol
03:08	Crowb4r	that is
03:09	defn	tomoj: http://nakkaya.com/2010/02/10/a-simple-clojure-irc-client/
03:09	defn	im starting with that to build a bot
03:09	Crowb4r	defn: I did that just a little bit, but was thinking of moving to pircbot the java lib
03:10	defn	more fun to roll something more hack-ish :)
03:10	Crowb4r	Ohh I agree
03:11	Crowb4r	So, How would I set "slime-indent-and-complete-symbol" or "slime-fuzzy-complete-symbol"
03:11	Crowb4r	?
03:12	defn	Crowb4r: fuzzy is nice and all, but i dont like it because it breaks my namespace completion
03:12	tomoj	Crowb4r: slime-complete-symbol should be enough
03:13	tomoj	are you trying to complete the name of a function?
03:13	tomoj	with or without a namespace?
03:13	tomoj	also, did you use clojure-mode from elpa?
03:13	Crowb4r	I can call and use the other clojure libs, but I can't auto complete them.
03:14	Crowb4r	I tried with both
03:14	Crowb4r	tomoj: yes, then I tried from the git repo
03:14	tomoj	very odd
03:14	tomoj	where'd you get slime?
03:15	Crowb4r	elpa
03:16	tomoj	me too
03:17	tomoj	swank-clojure version?
03:17	tomoj	I don't know if that matters, but..
03:17	Crowb4r	Could be something with aquamacs, but I figured that was trivial.
03:18	tomoj	hmm aquamacs
03:18	tomoj	I have aquamacs in the other room, I can try there
03:18	tomoj	(in a while)
03:18	Crowb4r	swank-clojure I've tried 1.1.0 and 1.2.0-SNAPSHOT
03:24	defn	i wonder what would happen if i just turned this ref into an agent
03:25	Crowb4r	It might work out better. seems like a hack though
03:29	defn	Crowb4r: yeah -- i need to step through this very slowlllyyy
03:29	Crowb4r	LOL, WTF! I just reinstalled all the packages from the elpa and it seems to be working
03:29	defn	Crowb4r: shrug :)
03:30	Crowb4r	just deleted the whole elpa folder except for package.el and reinstalled all my packaged and ta-da
03:30	Crowb4r	packages*
03:30	Crowb4r	3:30am--
03:42	tomoj	Crowb4r: weird
03:42	tomoj	defn: I don't think using an agent is a hack
03:42	tomoj	rich did it in ants.clj
03:42	tomoj	with a running var to stop it
03:42	Crowb4r	tomoj: I was not suggesting agents are a hack
03:43	Crowb4r	Just with his code it would be a hack in.
03:43	tomoj	oh, not that irc code?
03:43	Crowb4r	no
03:43	Crowb4r	http://gist.github.com/354197
03:43	Crowb4r	02:44 < defn> see: add-sexps
03:44	tomoj	ah
03:45	Crowb4r	So, Is clojure going to be even better when java 7 comes out?
03:45	defn	tomoj: what is your feeling about refs versus agents there?
03:45	defn	(in that gist (specifically (add-sexps...)))
03:45	tomoj	I don't know, I don't understand the code yet
03:45	tomoj	I don't see "(add-sexps" in the gist
03:45	defn	add-sexp..., sorry
03:46	defn	line 106
03:47	tomoj	well, you could use assoc-in, for one thing, maybe?
03:47	tomoj	,(assoc-in {} [:good '(foo)] 3)
03:47	clojurebot	{:good {(foo) 3}}
03:47	Crowb4r	,(doc assoc-in)
03:47	clojurebot	"([m [k & ks] v]); Associates a value in a nested associative structure, where ks is a sequence of keys and v is the new value and returns a new nested structure. If any levels do not exist, hash-maps will be created."
03:48	tomoj	oh, wait
03:48	tomoj	(:good sexps) isn't a map, is it
03:48	defn	no
03:49	tomoj	what is that, an alist?
03:49	tomoj	,(-> nil (conj ['(foo) 3]) (conj ['(bar) 4]) (conj ['(foo) 5]))
03:49	clojurebot	([(foo) 5] [(bar) 4] [(foo) 3])
03:49	lithper2_	when i need to add a new .clj file to the classpath to be used, it seems like i have to restart swank. is this default behavior?
03:49	Crowb4r	Holy hell, that will be so useful for an assignment that I will have in a class in the next couple of months.
03:50	Crowb4r	Assoc-in that is
03:50	tomoj	(alter _ update-in _ conj _) confuses me :)
03:50	lithper2_	to be specific, i create a project with swank-clojure-project.
03:51	tomoj	lithper2_: if you change the classpath, you need to restart the jvm
03:51	Crowb4r	lithper2_: Yes, because the JVM is static when started
03:51	Crowb4r	the JVM classpath
03:51	tomoj	if you have src/ in the classpath, then you should be able to add files in there and use them without restarting
03:51	Crowb4r	You can however load a file in from the repl though
03:51	Crowb4r	you keep beating me to it tomoj
03:52	tomoj	sorry :)
03:52	Crowb4r	heh, it's just funny
03:52	lithper2_	so loading as opposed to require-ing them is the way to go to avoid restarts.
03:53	tomoj	no
03:54	tomoj	well, don't require them in the repl manually by typing (require '...), yeah
03:54	tomoj	if you hit C-c C-k on a clojure file, it should be loaded
03:54	lithper2_	i was manually doing requires just to see what happens
03:54	tomoj	it will also load whatever files it depends on in the ns macro
03:55	tomoj	yes, it's fine to manually require things, just a hassle
03:55	defn	tomoj: Crowb4r: do you guys have any fancy ways of automagically doing M-x slime-set-default-directory after the REPL has been loaded?
03:55	lithper2_	thanks for the tip.
03:55	Crowb4r	defn: nope
03:55	tomoj	defn: I don't even know what that does
03:55	defn	id like to automatically set slime-set-default-directory to the project root directory
03:55	Crowb4r	me = emacs newb
03:55	defn	tomoj: let's say you run M-x swank-clojure-project on your lein project...
03:56	defn	tomoj: you have a logs/ directory in the root of the project dir
03:56	defn	tomoj: unless you explicitly tell slime which directory you're in, you'll default to something like ~/
03:56	tomoj	when you C-x C-f, you mean?
03:56	tomoj	that is interesting
03:56	tomoj	I wonder if the default only matters when you're at the slime repl?
03:57	Crowb4r	defn: I usuall do a M-x cd and set my root to the project
03:57	tomoj	I use slime-connect so it would have to be extra magic
03:58	defn	why slime-connect? that just seems like extra work to me
03:58	defn	i have to keep a repl open in a term
03:58	Crowb4r	however I've moved to slime-connect because it's just a hell of a lot easier to have multiple enviroments of clorue ready to go.
03:58	tomoj	I use screen
03:58	defn	never heard of it :P
03:58	tomoj	and I want the environment I use the repl in to be created by lein
03:59	tomoj	because lein will create the environment the project will eventually run in
03:59	Crowb4r	lein swank
03:59	tomoj	yeah
04:00	tomoj	defn: does the ":P" mean you're joking?
04:00	Crowb4r	just make sure swank-clojure is in the lib folder or in your :dev-depenencies of project.clj
04:00	Crowb4r	I'm guessing that means he is joking
04:00	tomoj	I don't need swank-clojure, just lein-swank is enough
04:00	Crowb4r	tomoj: your right lein-swank
04:00	Crowb4r	my bad
04:00	defn	tomoj: yeah of course
04:01	tomoj	good :)
04:01	tomoj	sometimes I don't even need lein-swank
04:01	defn	i would lose myself without good ole gnu screen
04:01	defn	tomoj: do you use emacs in a terminal then?
04:01	defn	or are you a vim guy?
04:01	tomoj	no, emacs in gtk or whatever it is
04:01	Crowb4r	emacs-gtk
04:01	tomoj	but this group has emacs and a small terminal running screen at all times
04:02	Crowb4r	I use aquamacs mainly
04:02	tomoj	so yeah I have to switch to the terminal, cd, lein swank, go back to emacs
04:03	defn	how do I add values to the vector inside this map: {:good [], :bad []}
04:03	Crowb4r	I rebound the screen escape to C-space from C-a
04:03	tomoj	well, what do the values need to look like
04:04	tomoj	currently it looks like they are added two at a time, the first being the sexp and the second being... the result of evaluation?
04:04	Crowb4r	I have a friend who writes a lot of bash and his escape is set to ` .... not a common key at all 0.o
04:04	Crowb4r	just `
04:04	tomoj	Crowb4r: that doesn't sound like a bad idea
04:05	Crowb4r	the ` or C-space
04:05	tomoj	well, I meant C-SPC, but ` doesn't sound that bad either
04:05	tomoj	except for me ` is $
04:05	tomoj	clojure never uses $, does it?
04:06	Crowb4r	I rebound it because I want my C-a for working in my shell
04:06	Crowb4r	tomoj: I don't think so
04:06	defn	Crowb4r: C-space breaks my marks though! :)
04:06	tomoj	ah yes, forgot about that
04:06	defn	i think there's one hotkey which was suggested because it's the only thing that emacs doesn't use
04:07	defn	C-i or C-7 or something
04:07	Crowb4r	geeesh
04:07	Crowb4r	C-i would break BASH
04:07	Crowb4r	no, maybe not....
04:08	defn	so erm, sorry to bother about this but, how do you conj onto a vector inside a map? {:x [] :y []}
04:09	tomoj	defn: you're already doing it right
04:09	tomoj	I mean, it works at least, doesn't it?
04:09	tomoj	,(update-in {:good []} [:good] conj 3)
04:09	clojurebot	{:good [3]}
04:09	defn	i was looking for "update-in"
04:10	defn	sorry, being lazy
04:10	tomoj	I'm confused, I got that idea from your gist :)
04:11	Crowb4r	defn: I was going to tell you that the nice thing about a clojure irc bot is that it's ease of threading will not make it hang on something and miss it's ping and get disconnected.
04:11	defn	Crowb4r: yeah that is cool
04:11	defn	Crowb4r: any suggestions for building a reader for this: http://nakkaya.com/2010/02/10/a-simple-clojure-irc-client/
04:12	tomoj	send-off whenever you receive or send something?
04:13	Crowb4r	I found that out and about jumped out of my chair. My non-clojure friends thought I made something really complex and overkill due to on;y understanding C(insert variant here)
04:13	defn	,(update-in {} [:good] conj "100")
04:13	clojurebot	{:good ("100")}
04:13	defn	is it possible to make sure that the value is a vector rather than a list?
04:14	tomoj	oh, I see
04:14	Crowb4r	tomoj: basicially whenever my bot did an eval on a new message it would thread on any keyword
04:14	tomoj	this seems related to the ensure-coll problem from a couple days ago
04:14	defn	tomoj: that's exactly what im thinking about
04:15	defn	performance guarantees are nice :)
04:15	defn	,(update-in {:good []} [:good] conj "100")
04:15	clojurebot	{:good ["100"]}
04:15	defn	there we are
04:16	tomoj	so just define it with vectors, I guess?
04:16	Crowb4r	So, I know it's a lot of trivial things, so it's not going ot be super expensive to just thread everything and return it into a message.
04:17	Crowb4r	makes it so when some jack-ass gives it a horrible query on a webservice it does not get hung-up.
04:18	Crowb4r	Alright, I need a few hours of sleep, but I'm sure defn will be here still when I get up. :p
04:19	Crowb4r	defn: Let me know how the irc bot goes. If I wor on mine I will just toss it on github for you to look at for some ideas if you want.
04:19	Crowb4r	work*
04:20	defn	Crowb4r: we could work together
04:20	defn	i made a repo: defn-bot
04:20	defn	it's just a blank slate lein project
05:58	pd	is it possible to get the list of keys given at a struct's definition?
06:41	defn	pd: id imagine so, though I haven't tried it. :)
06:42	Borkdude	Can anyone guide me how to import this git project in Eclipse, build it and use the jar in a Counter Clockwise Eclipse project?
06:42	Borkdude	git://github.com/mattrepl/clojure-twitter.git
06:43	Borkdude	I have EGit installed
06:47	defn	pd: you could place some metadata on it
06:58	defn	(defstruct #^{:keys [:my, :keys]} my-struct :my :keys)
06:58	defn	although (meta #'my-struct) doesn't seem to show that metadata
06:59	Raynes	Kill it with fire.
06:59	defn	#^{:keys [:my, :keys]}
06:59	defn	,#^{:keys [:my, :keys]}
06:59	clojurebot	EOF while reading
07:00	defn	(defn #^{:tag String} shout [#^{:tag String s] (.toUpperCase s))
07:00	defn	that's pretty neat
07:00	defn	(defn #^{:tag String} shout [#^{:tag String} s] (.toUpperCase s))
07:00	Raynes	defn: Any progress on getclojure?
07:19	Borkdude	gtg
07:38	defn	Raynes: not really no -- im stuck on where the bug is ATM
07:38	defn	Raynes: want to answer a question or two for me? :)
07:38	Raynes	defn: I want. So hurry. ;)
07:38	Raynes	I can try. :p
07:38	tufflax	Hm, I'm using clojure box (emacs and stuff for windows), and I've read that I should be able to print the last stack trace with (.printStackTrace *e) but it just returns nil and doesn't print anything for me. What's wrong?
07:38	defn	this is actually fairly simple (i think)
07:39	defn	(defn fib-seq [] ((fn rfib [a b] (cons a (lazy-seq (rfib b (+ a b))))) 1 2))
07:39	Raynes	tufflax: Doesn't appear to work for me either.
07:39	defn	Raynes: actually nevermind -- im just struggling to explain this to a friend
07:40	Raynes	:o
07:41	tufflax	Btw, I don't understand how (.printStackTrace *e) works, I mean there isn't a function called .printStackTrace in the user namespace right? I find this a little bit odd. :P
07:42	Raynes	defn: (defn fib-seq [] ((fn rfib [a b] (->> (+ a b) (rfib b) lazy-seq (cons a))) 1 2)) :D
07:42	defn	well played :)
07:42	tomoj	tufflax: it's a java method
07:43	Raynes	defn: I'm trying to make a habit of using the arrow forms. :D
07:44	tufflax	tomoj yes, I know. But doesn't the evaluator (or whatever) look up the first element of a list and try to call that as a function? And then what happens when .printstackTrace isn't in the user namespace?
07:44	tomoj	try this (.printStackTrace e (java.io.PrintWriter. out*))
07:45	tomoj	the .foo form is special
07:45	Raynes	Works.
07:45	tufflax	ok... regular symbols can't start with .?
07:46	tomoj	they can, but you wouldn't be able to use them as functions, I suppose
07:46	tufflax	hm, ok. Well thank you!
07:46	tomoj	,(letfn [(.foo [] 23)] (.foo))
07:46	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Malformed member expression, expecting (.member target ...)
07:46	tomoj	I dunno why .printStackTrace doesn't work without giving it a wrapped out
07:47	defn	actually Raynes, would you mind stepping through the fib-seq with me?
07:47	tomoj	actually, it must be using System.out
07:47	tomoj	(.println System/out "foo")
07:47	tomoj	this prints nothing
07:48	tomoj	because out is some swank magic
07:49	tomoj	using lein-swank for example, (.printStackTrace *e) prints to stdout where you ran lein swank
07:49	tomoj	it's a java issue I guess
07:50	Raynes	defn: I don't think I'd be very helpful. I suck at explaining things.
07:50	Raynes	:\|
07:50	tomoj	when you are seeing output print into the repl, that's because you've got some magic happening that is telling clojure where to print
07:50	defn	Raynes: I think I can explain this by just walking through it, but he's pretty new and I don't want to overwhelm him
07:50	npoektop	hi! what does mean "Caused by: java.lang.IllegalStateException: -main already refers to: #'awesome.iCipher/-main in namespace: awesome.iCipher"?
07:51	Raynes	Break it apart into tiny pieces. Show what the individual pieces of code do.
07:51	defn	just going to do the old "step through this recursive thing step by step"
07:52	Raynes	I understand what the code does, but it would be difficult for me to explain it.
07:52	defn	nod
07:52	Raynes	Such are reasons why I don't intend to write a book about Clojure.
07:53	Raynes	I'll leave that to chouser, with his slow ass MEAP of Joy.
07:53	Raynes	(Not chouser and fogus who are slow, but Manning for not updating the MEAP)
07:54	defn	Raynes: the outer parens on: ((fn [x y]) 1 2), do those ecapsulate the output from rfib in a list, or is it for a reaosn like (function 1 2), the function must be first in the list?
07:54	Raynes	The function must be first in the list.
07:54	defn	thanks
07:55	Raynes	The inner parens are a call to fn, and the outer parens are a call to the anonymous fn defined by fn.
07:56	tomoj	I don't think the ->> helps
07:56	tomoj	(cons a (lazy-seq (rfib b (+ a b))))
07:56	Raynes	tomoj: I doubt he is using that example. :)
07:56	Raynes	I was just being snarky.
07:56	defn	i enjoy lots of snark
07:56	tomoj	oh, whoops
07:57	Raynes	The ->> example would be way too overwhelming to a new guy.
07:57	Raynes	Explain that AFTER he has the function down.
07:57	Raynes	;P
07:57	defn	i put it in there for fun Raynes
07:57	defn	at the end of my email :)
07:57	Raynes	Hehe.
07:58	tomoj	so (rfib 1 2) == (cons 1 (lazy-seq (rfib 2 3))) == (cons 1 (lazy-seq (cons 2 (lazy-seq (rfib 3 5))))) ...
08:00	tomoj	I didn't know you could do it that way
08:00	tomoj	I always do like (rfib 1 2) == (lazy-seq (cons 1 (rfib 2 3))) == (lazy-seq (cons 1 (lazy-seq (cons 2 (rfib 3 5))))) ...
08:01	defn	what is a being cons'd onto?
08:01	defn	'a, that is
08:01	tomoj	'a is not being cons'd
08:03	defn	it's funny im answering his question and now im lost
08:03	defn	(cons a...) turns out to just be (cons 1 ...)
08:04	Raynes	(doc cons)
08:04	clojurebot	"([x seq]); Returns a new seq where x is the first element and seq is the rest."
08:04	Raynes	What's being cons'd, then? A coke can?
08:05	Raynes	An invisible one with the 6 flags coupon on it?
08:05	Raynes	six*
08:05	Raynes	tomoj: We need halp. You can't drop bombs on us like that and then just run off.
08:05	defn	A new invisible coke can made of waffle with a 6 flags coupon underneath it?
08:05	Raynes	s_s
08:06	tomoj	Raynes: the value of a?
08:06	Raynes	...
08:07	Raynes	You just sa... Oh. 'a.
08:07	Raynes	Never mind.
08:07	Raynes	$eval 'a
08:07	Raynes	Oh yeah, my bot isn't here. :\|
08:07	Raynes	,'a
08:07	clojurebot	a
08:07	Raynes	:D
08:07	defn	i just added a tick mark to make it recognizable
08:07	tomoj	ah I see
08:07	defn	since it looked funny in that sentence
08:07	tomoj	I thought you were referring to the symbol
08:08	Raynes	tomoj: If this were stackoverflow, I'd be forced to vote you down. ;p
08:08	tomoj	yeah
08:08	Raynes	Don't scare me like that.
08:08	defn	so lazy-seq, when it executes it's body 3 times recursively gives us (cons 1 (2 3))
08:09	defn	is that a nice way to explain it?
08:09	tomoj	well, no
08:10	tomoj	(fib-seq) is (cons 1 (lazy-seq (rfib 2 3)))
08:10	tomoj	when you ask for (rest (fib-seq)), that lazy-seq is evaluated
08:11	tomoj	so (rest (fib-seq)) is (rfib 2 3) which is (cons 2 (lazy-seq (rfib 3 5)))
08:11	tomoj	and so on
08:12	tomoj	at every stage you have (cons <the current element> (lazy-seq <some code which computes the remaining elements>))
08:14	tomoj	(that's what a cons cell is - an element and the rest of the elements in a tuple)
08:14	defn	had to re-read that a few times -- that makes a lot of sense now
08:14	defn	thanks tomoj
08:17	chouser	a little pednatic correction -- (rest (fib-seq)) is actually just (lazy-seq (rfib 2 3)).
08:18	chouser	that is, 'rest' doesn't force that lazy-seq to execute.
08:18	chouser	'next' does, as does calling 'first' or 'rest' on the lazy-seq
08:19	chouser	sorry if that muddles things -- sometimes that detail isn't important so feel free to ignore me. :-)
08:20	tomoj	that means I can bind something to (rest (fib-seq)) without ever realizing a lazy-seq?
08:20	defn	chouser: quite alright -- but i am a bit confused on that point.
08:20	defn	@tomoj my question exactly
08:21	tomoj	but if I bind something to (next (fib-seq)), the first lazy-seq will be realized?
08:21	defn	i thought calling rest would just make it run to infinity
08:21	tomoj	well, trying to print the result of calling rest
08:21	tomoj	I didn't realize next and rest had this difference
08:22	tomoj	or (first (rest (fib-seq)) would cause the lazy-seq to be executed, I guess?
08:23	defn	i think im just missing some terminology here
08:23	defn	what does execute mean in this case?
08:24	defn	because if i do (rest (fib-seq)) at my repl, it seems like it's executing lazy-seq to me
08:24	defn	or is it only executing the stuff inside of the (lazy-seq (...))
08:27	tomoj	clojurebot: ping
08:27	clojurebot	PONG!
08:29	tomoj	,(let [foo-seq (repeatedly #(do (println "lazy-seq evaluated")))] (take 1 foo-seq))
08:29	clojurebot	(nil)
08:29	tomoj	,(let [foo-seq (repeatedly #(do (println "lazy-seq evaluated"))) bar (rest foo-seq)])
08:29	clojurebot	lazy-seq evaluated
08:29	tomoj	,(let [foo-seq (repeatedly #(do (println "lazy-seq evaluated"))) bar (rest foo-seq)] (take 1 bar))
08:29	clojurebot	(nil)
08:30	clojurebot	lazy-seq evaluated
08:30	tomoj	well, that didn't work at all
08:30	tomoj	the first and second examples print once, the last prints twice
08:30	tufflax	Eh, I'm using clojure box, and I want to install a library so I can "require" it, does know anybody what I should do? Where should I put the downloaded library?
08:30	tomoj	you can bind bar to (rest foo-seq) and it still doesn't evaluate the second lazy-seq
08:30	tomoj	because (rest foo-seq) IS just a LazySeq value, it won't evaluate until you ask for an element out of it
08:31	tomoj	(or next or whatever)
08:31	tomoj	I feel like "evaluate" is the wrong word
08:33	tomoj	tufflax: typically you will want to get the jars in the lib/ directory
08:33	tomoj	I don't know anything about clojurebox
08:33	tufflax	ok
08:33	tomoj	there's leiningen for this
08:34	tomoj	but you may not want to bother learning it right now, if not try just dropping the jars in lib/
08:35	tufflax	ok, thanks
08:36	tufflax	And what if they are just .clj files, do they go into lib too?
08:36	defn	lazy-seq's body is being
08:36	defn	err oops
08:37	tufflax	...apparently yes.
08:46	defn	tomoj: re:"evaluate" is the wrong word. Yeah, what you said makes sense... It's sort of like the potential for evaluation, "partial" evaluation?
08:51	defn	tufflax: do you have leiningen?
08:51	tufflax	no
08:51	defn	highly recommended
08:51	tufflax	what do I need that for? :P
08:52	defn	dependencies, no more moving jars in lib/, just run a command and it is done for you
08:52	defn	http://github.com/technomancy/leiningen
08:53	tufflax	Hm, I might look at it later, right now I don't feel I need it. I'm just reading "Programming Clojure" right now trying to learn the language :P
09:00	defn	tufflax: nod -- it makes things quite a bit easier when you want to toy with a library
09:01	defn	heck, the programming clojure source might use lein now...
09:02	tufflax	Hm, how do I restart the REPL in slime/emacs/whatever? So that it forgets all defs?
09:28	defn	tufflax: you could just create a new one
09:29	tufflax	I found out that M-x slime-restart-inferior-lisp did it
09:29	defn	tufflax: you could also just switch namespaces arbitrarily
09:29	tufflax	hehe yeah
09:29	defn	(ns djsafkfdsakjfdjsk)
09:30	defn	tufflax: i recommend using the elpa packages if you're new
09:30	tufflax	uhm, what's that
09:30	defn	tufflax: http://devinwalters.com/posts/24
09:33	tufflax	Hm, but im on windows, and I have alomst all that from clojure box
09:35	tufflax	Or, wait, maybe i didnt understand what epla was
09:36	defn	if you have emacs you can use it
09:36	defn	leiningen works for windows
09:43	chouser	it's tricky to work with lazy-seqs at the repl and avoid unintended forcing, because if the repl prints a seq, it'll force it.
09:44	chouser	,(let [xs (cons 1 (lazy-seq (println "forced") '(2)))] xs)
09:44	clojurebot	(forced 1 2)
09:45	chouser	,(let [xs (cons 1 (lazy-seq (println "forced") '(2)))] (first xs))
09:45	clojurebot	1
09:45	chouser	,(let [xs (cons 1 (lazy-seq (println "forced") '(2)))] (rest xs) :foo)
09:45	clojurebot	:foo
09:46	chouser	so there, we can call 'first' or 'rest' on that cons and (if we're careful not to print the result of rest) neither forces the lazy-seq
09:46	chouser	but calling 'next' instead of 'rest' does force it:
09:46	chouser	,(let [xs (cons 1 (lazy-seq (println "forced") '(2)))] (next xs) :foo)
09:46	clojurebot	:foo
09:46	clojurebot	forced
09:49	tufflax	defn: I evaled the code on that ELPA page and got an error: could not find directory for package-0.9 :p
09:50	tufflax	And now I'm lost :P
09:52	defn	tufflax: oof
09:52	defn	tufflax: which emacs v?
09:52	tufflax	23. something
09:52	defn	(ive never done this on windows so i cant guarantee anything)
09:53	tufflax	GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
09:56	defn	tufflax: checking into something...
09:56	defn	tufflax: how did you eval the code?
09:57	tufflax	pasted it into a new buffer and chose "eval buffer" from the menu
09:57	tufflax	if that's what you mean
09:58	tufflax	It started downloading something but alas...
09:58	tufflax	and i was in elisp mode of course
09:59	defn	that sounds like it should work, but just to be sure could you just restart emacs, paste that top sexp into emacs, and go to the end of the sexp and place your cursor exactly one character after the last )
09:59	tufflax	ok...
09:59	defn	and then hit C-j
10:00	defn	so you'll likely just have a scratch buffer -- just paste it in there and hit C-j when your cursor is directly after the closing ) in the block
10:00	tufflax	is scrath elisp mode? :P
10:00	tufflax	scratch*
10:01	defn	idk, your error just seems weird
10:01	defn	i cant seem to find anything about it
10:02	tufflax	hm, now it doesnt do that, it seems to work :P
10:02	defn	your best bet would be to switch to another OS ;)
10:02	defn	but anyway, let me know if you need anything else
10:02	tufflax	hehe yeah i tried, but my sound card wouldnt work on ubuntu and i play a lot of games :p
10:03	defn	tufflax: shrug -- clojure is clojure
10:03	tufflax	:)
10:03	defn	i just have found *nixes to be a lot more accommodating for the discerning emacs hacker
10:03	tufflax	Ok, so what cool packages can i get now to pimp my emacs
10:03	defn	well, it is an absolute must that you get paredit
10:03	tufflax	ok
10:03	defn	that is truly awesome
10:04	Raynes	Well, not everybody loves paredit.
10:04	Raynes	LauJensen has deep German (or whatever he is) hatred for it.
10:04	defn	check out technomancy's emacs-starter-kit for a lot of really good emacs usability ideas, and cool package ideas: http://github.com/technomancy/emacs-starter-kit
10:04	Raynes	He hates it almost as much as he hates je...
10:04	Raynes	Sorry, inappropriate. :\|
10:05	defn	Raynes: je? like "I" in French?
10:05	Raynes	defn: Jew.
10:05	defn	oh, eighr
10:05	defn	right*
10:05	Raynes	Whoa. How did the r end up at the end?
10:05	Raynes	I'm not that talented.
10:06	defn	check your keyboard :)
10:06	tufflax	hm, when i type in paredit it says [no match]
10:06	defn	did you install the package via elpa?
10:07	defn	if yes, you may need to (require 'paredit) in your .emacs or .emacs.d/init.e;l
10:07	tufflax	oh, maybe i must restart emacs first
10:07	defn	el*
10:07	defn	oh yes, and that
10:09	defn	tufflax: i have some stuff ill recommend...
10:09	tufflax	hehe sounds good
10:10	defn	(require 'cl) (require 'saveplace) (require 'ffap) (require 'uniquify) (require 'ansi-color) (require 'recentf)
10:10	defn	you should have all of those
10:10	tufflax	should i get them all at the same time right now? :P
10:11	defn	things you'd need to go and get on your own: (require 'magit) (require 'yasnippet) (require 'tramp) (require 'color-theme) (require 'auto-complete-config)
10:11	defn	tufflax: the ones above you can just add to your .emacs or .emacs.d/init.el and they are already available
10:11	tufflax	ok
10:12	defn	tufflax: http://gist.github.com/354513
10:12	defn	that's my init.el
10:13	bsteuber	how can I call the type constructer from within the deftype definition?
10:14	bsteuber	(deftype Foo [x] IFoo (bar [] (Foo (inc x)) gives an error
10:16	tufflax	defn I used your init.el and when i started emacs i was supposed to select a file, and it said "dired"
10:16	defn	tufflax: you wont be able to just use my init.el
10:16	Raynes	bsteuber: Foo.
10:16	tufflax	oh
10:17	defn	tufflax: it is just a palette of ideas -- many of those things needed to be compiled from source, downloaded, or written in the case of the defn-* requires
10:17	bsteuber	Raynes: thx :)
10:17	defn	tufflax: google for emacs color theme
10:17	Raynes	http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/bgbrr/webbased_emacs_colortheme_creator/
10:17	Raynes	That thing is awesome.
10:17	Raynes	More awesome than you can comprehend.
10:18	defn	yeah raynes
10:18	defn	have you seen the other generator?
10:18	Raynes	No.
10:18	defn	http://inspiration.sweyla.com/code/
10:18	defn	http://inspiration.sweyla.com/code/seed/891972/
10:18	defn	i like that one
10:19	Raynes	Haha. You said seed.
10:19	Raynes	I'm easily distracted this early in the morning, I suppose. ._.
10:19	defn	I'm easily distracted nearly every moment of my natural life.
10:20	Raynes	That generator is teh pwn
10:20	defn	yeah it generates some nice bright themes
10:20	Raynes	http://inspiration.sweyla.com/code/seed/712659/ That one is an eye bleeder
10:20	defn	http://inspiration.sweyla.com/code/seed/208256/
10:23	underdev	black background, muted aqua colors, its like a code bonzai
10:24	underdev	.. tranquel
10:28	tufflax	defn what was supposed to happen with those cl, saveplace, ffap etc
10:28	defn	stuff ;)
10:28	defn	google 'em
10:28	tufflax	hehe
10:34	underdev	Seriously?
10:34	underdev	oh, someone killed it
10:38	underdev	structured editing + sexps ... how did i ever code with it?
10:38	underdev	without*
10:40	tomoj	..paredit? or what
10:40	underdev	oh yeah
10:41	underdev	the efficiency is... just amazing
11:23	tomoj	is there a way to conditionally splice a form into a syntax quoted list?
11:23	tomoj	I mean, conditionally expand to (foo bar) or (foo bar baz)
11:23	tomoj	without having to say "foo bar" twice
11:26	arbscht	tomoj: `(foo bar ~@(when condition `(baz)) ?
11:26	tomoj	oh, splicing, of course
11:26	tomoj	I had just tried ~nil and gave up
11:27	tomoj	,`(foo ~@nil)
11:27	clojurebot	(sandbox/foo)
11:27	tomoj	thanks
11:32	ct__	(is (= 2 1) "equals") doesn't print 'equals' with (run-tests). Any idea why?
11:33	tomoj	anybody still out there interested in neural networks?
11:43	Fossi	hmm. seem you can't xml/parse some file, json-write and read-json it and work on it with zip-filters
11:57	ct__	VC requires binding test-out like this:(defn my-run-tests
11:57	ct__	[]
11:57	ct__	(binding [test-out out] (run-tests)))
11:59	underdev	` + ~ = teh hotness
11:59	underdev	so cool
12:00	underdev	oh, @~ ... sick
12:01	underdev	err ~@
12:02	underdev	i think i can implement a delimited version of tcl with macros and exception handling
12:02	underdev	single typing > dynamic typing in certain domains
12:26	dnolen	interesting conundrum. is it possible to define a deftype method that can be used with reduce?
13:02	chouser	deftype doesn't define methods, only implements them.
13:05	tomoj	but sure, why not?
13:06	tomoj	it just needs to be a function of two args that returns an instance that also implements whatever interface
13:07	tomoj	I guess you'll have to use #(.fun %) though?
13:08	dnolen	chouser: yes :). tomoj: well reduce fns need to be able to accept no arguments, right?
13:08	tomoj	ah, hm
13:09	licoresse	Is it not allowed to have destructuring in defmethod?
13:10	licoresse	(defmethod paint-slot :normal [{:keys [g x y this slot-state layer index-i] :as p}] ....
13:11	tomoj	one problem I've had is wanting to define something like static methods for deftypes
13:12	tomoj	really like haskell's typeclasses
13:12	tomoj	and in this case the 0-ary is just a constant in the typeclass
13:13	tomoj	but in clojure we can't call a static method the same way as the 2-ary nonstatic one :/
13:14	Crowb4r	i've never used haskell, how is HUGS?
13:14	tomoj	in java you specify the class explicitly, in haskell the type is inferred or explicitly specified
13:14	tomoj	can clojure do something about this?
13:14	tomoj	Crowb4r: I use ghc personally, but haven't really tried hugs
13:14	Crowb4r	well How is haskell in general
13:15	tomoj	I would say, awesome, but quite confusing, and syntax makes me said
13:15	tomoj	s/said/sad/
13:16	Crowb4r	I see
13:16	underdev	yeah, i got through about a page of examples before i was like "uh.. no".
13:17	Crowb4r	So, I know this seems a little odd, but what does using java -server vs java -client gain you?
13:17	tomoj	extra memory for one thing
13:17	tomoj	not sure what else really..
13:17	underdev	different optimizations for hotspot
13:18	hiredman	it kind of depends these days -client seems to be falling out of use
13:18	joshua-choi	I'm told that client's supposed to start up faster but server is generally faster over a long time
13:18	hiredman	used to be the vm you got with -client wasn't hotspot
13:18	Crowb4r	I wish the vm would just stay in a lower running background state after it was first called to lower the start-up time of the JVM
13:19	Crowb4r	That is the only reason people think java is slow IMO
13:19	joshua-choi	Aye, it is the biggest reason
13:20	underdev	also waiting for applet to watch a from catch flies over their dialup
13:20	tomoj	could you like, write out a virgin JVM to disk and load it directly into memory to start a new one?
13:20	underdev	you never get a second chance to make a first impression
13:20	Crowb4r	Java 7 will hopfully change that since it's a major change of th JVM.
13:21	patrickdlogan	Crowb4r: IBM has been developing a jvm for their "project zero" that is fast to startup, has socket takeover, etc.. http://www.projectzero.org/sMash/1.0.x/docs/zero.devguide.doc/zero.management.zso/ZSOManagementExtensions.html
13:22	patrickdlogan	Crowb4r: I think it is commercial, but imagine clojure would run on it.
13:22	hugod	technomancy: compile-string branch ensures usage of file and line number when you C-c C-c defn's. It is a bit of a hack though, as it calls clojure.lang.Compiler/load directly. Otherwise the autodoc and hyperdoc branches could do with testing. hyperdoc links to clojure api web pages. autodoc is for slime-autodoc.
13:22	Crowb4r	Doesn't nail-gun speed it up as well?
13:22	patrickdlogan	Crowb4r: nailgun keeps a hot process running, so not the same as starting up a cold vm from scratch.
13:27	Crowb4r	patrickdlogan: So, you start nailgun, then write a nail that connects to that nailgun?
13:28	patrickdlogan	Crowb4r: yes, the jvm is up and running and has a protocol for small apps in other languages to initiate a service in the jvm.
13:28	candeller	hi, i am just reading through the programming clojure book and I came accross the ref chapter and I have a question regarding the validation of refs: http://ideone.com/etMtPntr <--- How does the ref get updated, when the validation function retuns false on the struct object?
13:37	LauJensen	Raynes: I'm danish, and no I dont hate paredit, its great for the kids :)
13:38	joshua-choi	candeller: This is why: validate-message-list needs a list, or a sequence.
13:38	joshua-choi	(validate-message-list user) will be false because it is a struct, not a list.
13:39	joshua-choi	user is an element of the list.
13:43	candeller	hmm, suppose I rewrite it that a body of a function is: (every? (fn [r] (:sender r) (:text r)) (seq arg-struct))
13:44	candeller	but it appears it would still return false? the collection would consist of [key value] pairs, so not every of them can respond to :text and :sender? Doh I dont know ;p
13:48	joshua-choi	candeller: Nope. The collection in the ref is a seq of chat structs.
13:48	tomoj	,(every? #(not %) [])
13:48	clojurebot	true
13:49	hiredman	in the case of an empty collection every? may not even run
13:49	hiredman	,(every? #(/ % 1 0) [])
13:49	clojurebot	true
13:50	candeller	ok that explains why it returns true on an empty collection
13:50	tomoj	I guess candeller needs to check that every single message is OK?
13:50	tomoj	or if you're always conj'ing, you only need to check the first element
13:51	joshua-choi	If you even want a list.
13:58	Raynes	LauJensen: Danish, German, it's all the same to me. ;)
14:07	Crowb4r	So, I got nailgun up, and it's fairly neat.
14:08	qbg	nailgun is neat, until you realize that there isn't much security.
14:09	Crowb4r	qbg: Yeah, but it still is a neat thing, just the total lack of security is a problem.
14:09	qbg	Doesn't slime/swank have similar security problems also?
14:09	Crowb4r	I don't know
14:10	Crowb4r	Someone was asking for nailgun clojure bindings, now that I see how it works I might write those today.
14:10	Crowb4r	As an easy project I could do, that as what was suggested.
14:10	qbg	I have my own script that launches clojure using nailgun
14:11	qbg	It can startup, and evaluate (System/exit 0) in 10 msec
14:12	qbg	The most painful part was determining if the nailgun server was already running
14:13	Crowb4r	That would maybe be a bit painful
14:14	qbg	I ended up just checking the return value of ng ng-stats
14:15	hiredman	I had a @reboot entry in the cron on my netbook to startup a nailgun server
14:19	qbg	If I can figure out how to get slime to use nailgun, that would be awesome
14:23	Crowb4r	qbg: I see that nailgun is not on clojars.org, is it in the maven repo?
14:23	Crowb4r	so lein can find it?
14:24	qbg	There is lein-nailgun: http://clojars.org/lein-nailgun
14:24	qbg	Don't know what it does
14:24	qbg	Well, it says it runs a nailgun server, but I've never used it
14:29	ct__	,(Long. 3)
14:29	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching ctor found for class java.lang.Long
14:29	ct__	?
14:30	qbg	,(Long. (long 3))
14:30	clojurebot	3
14:30	ct__	weird
14:30	ct__	,(class 3)
14:30	clojurebot	java.lang.Integer
14:31	ct__	ah
14:32	ct__	qbg: ty
14:33	qbg	,(class (long 3))
14:33	clojurebot	java.lang.Long
14:35	Crowb4r	Well, I will put that dep in the project.clj later then
14:57	hiredman	syntax-quote being in the reader is kind of a drag
15:03	MrEvil	stupid question, why does: (println (* (range 1 101))) result in:java.lang.ClassCastException (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
15:03	hiredman	MrEvil: range returns a sequence of numbers
15:03	hiredman	* takes numbers, not a sequence of numbers
15:04	hiredman	,(range 1 101)
15:04	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100)
15:04	MrEvil	oh, just realized that. thanks
15:09	qbg	The problem with nailgun: neither jline nor rlwrap seem to play well with it
15:10	hiredman	huh?
15:10	hiredman	rlwrap has always worked with it for me
15:12	qbg	Strange, it works when I don't redirect the output of nailgun server...
15:15	rlb	I'm trying to make sure I understand commute. It sounds like its function may be run twice, once where it occurs, and then again at commit time. Is that right?
15:19	pd	,(apply * (range 1 20))
15:19	clojurebot	121645100408832000
15:19	chouser	rlb: yes
15:22	qbg	rlwrap works fine if I start the nailgun server in another bash which I redirect the output of in the main bash session
15:22	qbg	Strange.
15:23	rlb	chouser: ok, thx. Is it always run twice (if you know offhand)?
15:27	rlb	nm - at least in some tests here it is, and that's as much as I need to know for now.
16:03	arohner_	is there already a function for testing whether two floats are approximately equal?
16:08	LauJensen	arohner: like (< 0.0 (Math/abs (- 0.54 0.541)) 0.1) ?
16:09	arohner	LauJensen: exactly. thanks
16:09	arohner	nm
16:09	arohner	yes, like that
17:17	bmason	I'm looking for a maven repo for Cupboard so that I can include it in my lein dependencies
17:17	bmason	is there a quick way to search for maven repos?
17:20	stacktracer	Is there any way to pass a non-array primitive argument into a function defined in Clojure, without it being boxed?
17:20	stacktracer	can I do this with gen-class?
17:22	bmason	primitive argument like an Int?
17:22	qbg	IFns take Objects as arguments
17:25	LauJensen	stacktracer: sure, use macros :)
17:25	stacktracer	:)
17:25	LauJensen	And if you're unsure how, read this http://www.bestinclass.dk/index.php/2010/03/functional-fluid-dynamics-in-clojure/
17:27	stacktracer	dumb question: are macros 1st-class in clojure? can I pass around a macro the way I pass a function?
17:28	qbg	No
17:28	Borkdude	how do you use 'use' with :only outside of a ns
17:29	Borkdude	(use 'clojure.contrib.macro-utils ...)
17:29	qbg	(use 'namespace :only '(symbols))
17:30	Borkdude	I do this: (use 'clojure.contrib.macro-utils :only '(mexpand-all))
17:30	Borkdude	but I get: Unsupported option(s) supplied: :only (repl-1:87)
17:31	qbg	Sorry, (use ['clojure.contrib.macro-utils :only '(mexpand-all)])
17:31	Borkdude	ah tnx
17:32	stacktracer	in the :methods clause of a gen-class, can a method be specified to take primitive args?
17:32	arohner	Borkdude: another way is (use '[clojure.contrib.macro-utils :only (mexpand-all)])
17:33	arohner	quoting outside the vector means you don't need to quote inside it
17:33	Borkdude	ok tnx
17:33	arohner	stacktracer: probably, but I'm not sure
17:34	stacktracer	looks like yes
17:34	stacktracer	:methods [[blah [int] void]]
17:35	stacktracer	yay!
18:36	seths	Does anyone know of a really shiny version of the Clojure logo?
18:36	seths	the ones I've found on clojure.org and google code are sort of small
18:40	seths	small, upscaled gifs look bad in a presentation
18:44	underdev	we definitely need to ask Rich for a vector version
18:45	underdev	i vectorized the one the website for a background. It came out funky, sort of painterly, i loved it, but it didn't quite look the official version.
18:46	underdev	riches brother designed the logo, so there is hope :)
18:47	seths	it's a great logo, very creative. people chuckle when they realize "that's... not a peace sign..."
18:59	_ato	seths: there's both a larger version and a SVG here: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/files
19:00	_ato	Clojure_300x300.png and Clojure.svg
19:01	seths	yay!
19:01	seths	_ato: thank you!
19:02	underdev	cool!
19:42	cheezey	so i have a string and it follows some format for example ":%s...%s!" or something. i want to break that up into just (%s %s)... how would i do that :O
19:43	qbg	Regular expressions?
19:43	chouser	,(re-seq #"%s" ":%s...%s!")
19:43	clojurebot	("%s" "%s")
19:47	cheezey	well %s are arbitrary
19:48	underdev	are you doing xml?
19:48	cheezey	underdev: no, but i guess the same technique would could be applied there..
19:48	underdev	when i see %s..%s i think xml
19:48	underdev	do you know in advance what %s you are looking for?
19:49	cheezey	underdev: no but i know what it's surrounded by. so it's like reverse of re-seq.. i think?
19:49	underdev	is the string guarenteed to be seperated by spaces
19:49	chouser	,(re-find #":(.)\.\.\.(.)!" "do you want:this like...this?!")
19:49	clojurebot	[":this like...this?!" "this like" "this?"]
19:50	cheezey	chouser: yeah! tahnks :P
19:50	cheezey	i am bad at this >_>
19:52	seths	chouser: any news on new MEAP content?
19:56	bmason	anyone else using berkeleydb / cupboard that can clue me in on what to include in my lein project.clj?
19:58	Crowb4r	MEAP?
19:59	bmason	should I just compile the cupboard library into a jar and put that in my 'lib' directory?
19:59	seths	Crowb4r: sorry. MEAP = Manning Early Access Program. Chouser is a co-author of a neat new book from Manning called the Joy of Clojure.
20:00	Crowb4r	Ahhh
20:00	seths	Crowb4r: a few chapters have been released, eager for more :-)
20:01	Crowb4r	Speaking of books. I'm waiting for practical clojure to get released from apress
20:01	Crowb4r	Seeing as I pre-ordered the print version
20:03	bmason	interesting
20:04	seths	the Apress website says May 2010
20:04	Crowb4r	THe first chapter of "Joy of Clojure" is pretty good
20:04	bmason	though I don't think he gets to be the first definitive reference :)
20:04	seths	bmason: I think that's still waiting to be written
20:04	bmason	his "what you'll learn section" all seems to have been covered by Stuart Holloway's book
20:05	Crowb4r	There is the "programming clojure" book that was released.
20:05	seths	things like Clojure in Clojure, cells, and such have to settle before a definitive guide has a good shot
20:05	bmason	aye
20:05	bmason	that's Stuart's
20:05	Crowb4r	yep
20:05	Crowb4r	I bought that one as well.
20:05	bmason	yeah, this one looks good too though :)
20:05	seths	Crowb4r: Rich and Stu signed my copy of Programming Clojure :-)
20:06	bmason	awesome :)
20:07	Crowb4r	that is awesome
20:08	Crowb4r	later
20:10	bmason	where would I find out about clojure conventions/presentations?
20:11	bmason	are there any coming up?
20:11	seths	bmason: one suggestion is following the Clojure Google Group
20:11	bmason	k
20:11	seths	user groups are popping up widely
20:12	seths	that raises the question of whether a Clojure event was still being planned to coincide with Java One
20:12	bmason	I get email summaries from the google group, so I should see anything that pops up there :)
20:13	seths	Crowb4r: there's one in the State Down South
20:13	seths	rhymes with "Nohio" :-)
20:14	bmason	I think Rich should tour like a rock band
20:14	bmason	evangelizing clojure wherever he goes
20:15	seths	personally I'd vote that Rich keep writing code
20:15	bmason	ah well :)
20:15	seths	all of us can spread the word
20:18	hiredman	,(* 8 50)
20:18	clojurebot	400
21:39	andrewlmurray	Hello
21:40	andrewlmurray	A quick question: if I have a namespace on my classpath and I want to dynamically require it at runtime (from a string lets say) and call a set function on it, is there a better way to do this than:
21:40	andrewlmurray	(defn call-foo-from-namespace [namespace-str]
21:40	andrewlmurray	(let [namespace-symbol (symbol namespace-str)]
21:40	andrewlmurray	(require namespace-symbol)
21:41	andrewlmurray	((ns-resolve (find-ns namespace-symbol) 'foo)
21:41	andrewlmurray
21:41	andrewlmurray	(call-foo-from-namespace "some.random.namespace")
22:25	Crowb4r	emacs in a pure shell is sure a pita
22:26	qbg	Emacs works just for me from a shell
22:27	Crowb4r	I'm still a newb with it
22:27	Crowb4r	so, it can be a little much
22:28	qbg	If you know how to bring up the menu, you should be good
22:28	qbg	maybe
22:29	Crowb4r	it helps I have a ref card printed out. :)
22:30	cemerick	Don't bring a menu to an emacs fight. ;-)
22:32	underdev	bash is telling me i don't have either a JAVA_HOME or CLASS_PATH set...
22:33	Crowb4r	So, put them in your bash profile
22:33	underdev	CLASSPATH i mean
22:33	cemerick	I was going to say...
22:33	Crowb4r	wow
22:33	underdev	so it's finding java based on the PATH, i assume
22:34	cemerick	Man, setting CLASSPATH in the shell. That takes me back.
22:34	Crowb4r	yep
22:34	underdev	maven docs are suggesting it
22:35	cemerick	underdev: link?
22:35	underdev	http://maven.apache.org/download.html
22:35	cemerick	heh
22:35	underdev	ide?
22:35	clojurebot	sicp videos is http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/
22:36	cemerick	underdev: OK, it's telling you to set JAVA_HOME if need be, but not classpath
22:36	cemerick	underdev: NetBeans for a while now
22:36	underdev	cheater
22:36	cemerick	past ~2 years or os
22:36	cemerick	you bet
22:37	Crowb4r	cemerick: netbeans + enclojure are nice
22:37	cemerick	qbg: that's a road of pain you're going down :-)
22:37	cemerick	good luck ;-)
22:38	cemerick	Crowb4r: Oh yeah.
22:38	cemerick	I've been hearing really good things about counterclockwise (the eclipse plugin), but I'm pretty hooked into NB in a couple of ways at the moment.
22:39	underdev	probably not worth the effort
22:39	cemerick	underdev: that's cool, but don't let that be a blocker on getting stuff done. Parallelize, and all that.
22:40	cemerick	You absolutely will need to understand various parts of the JVM, but that comes with time.
22:40	cemerick	It's a big world.
22:40	d2dchat	Sorry if this is a really noobish question but.. I'm trying to get jLine to work and I just want it to be included by default. I downloaded the jar and moved it to /System/Library/Java/Extensions/
22:40	d2dchat	which in OS X I think is included by default in the Java class path
22:41	d2dchat	so shouldn't it just work if I say java -cp clojure.jar clojure.main ?
22:41	qbg	No
22:41	qbg	You need to run clojure.main using jline
22:41	d2dchat	qbg: how?
22:41	qbg	jline.ConsoleRunner clojure.main
22:41	d2dchat	java -cp clojure.jar jline.ConsoleRunner clojure.main ?
22:42	qbg	yes
22:42	d2dchat	Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.main
22:42	d2dchat	is there a way to figure out what the default class paths are in my java install?
22:42	d2dchat	is it CLASSPATH?
22:42	d2dchat	if so, that hasn't been set yet
22:43	cemerick	OS X rigs up an implicit classpath without the env variable
22:44	qbg	clojure.jar is in the current directory?
22:44	d2dchat	qbg: yes
22:45	d2dchat	java -cp clojure.jar clojure.main works
22:46	defn	hmm, i wonder how difficult it would be to autoindent functions given in a single line across several lines. ie; (reduce + (map #(+ 1 %) [1 2 3 4 5]))
22:47	qbg	d2dchat: What if you explicitly put jline on the classpath?
22:48	d2dchat	java -cp /System/Library/Java/Extensions/jline.jar:clojure.jar clojure.main jline.ConsoleRunner
22:48	d2dchat	Exception in thread "main" java.io.FileNotFoundException: jline.ConsoleRunner (No such file or directory)
22:48	d2dchat	hmm
22:49	d2dchat	it just doesn't like me
22:49	d2dchat	:)
22:49	d2dchat	oh wait
22:49	d2dchat	nope
22:49	d2dchat	the reverse does't work eitehr
22:49	d2dchat	java -cp /System/Library/Java/Extensions/jline.jar:clojure.jar jline.ConsoleRunner clojure.main
22:49	d2dchat	Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.main
22:49	qbg	Are you sure the jar is "jline.jar"?
22:50	d2dchat	yes, I moved it there
22:50	d2dchat	ls /System/Library/Java/Extensions/ \| grep jline
22:50	d2dchat	jline.jar
22:53	d2dchat	haha
22:53	d2dchat	clojure works fine independently
22:53	d2dchat	just would be nice to have the jline functionality
22:54	cemerick	is rlwrap an option?
22:54	cemerick	(not that I use either)
22:54	d2dchat	java -cp /System/Library/Java/Extensions/jline.jar jline.ConsoleRunner gave me the help screen for jline
22:57	d2dchat	what's the rlwrap option?
23:00	d2dchat	heh I figured it out
23:00	cemerick	d2dchat: it's what jline attempts to replicate AFAIK: http://freshmeat.net/projects/rlwrap/
23:00	d2dchat	mismatched permissions
23:01	cemerick	oh, jline.jar needed to be in ~/Library/Java/Extensions?
23:01	d2dchat	I moved the jline file to the same directory as the clojure file
23:01	d2dchat	and now it works
23:05	d2dchat	hmm, well I moved it to ~/Library/Java/Extensions and tried to add that to the cp instead and
23:05	d2dchat	same error
23:05	d2dchat	Java hates me :(
23:20	underdev	HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA - all that to get this: The program 'mvn' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing:
23:20	underdev	sudo apt-get install maven2
23:20	underdev	that's awesome
23:26	d2dchat	ah wow http://clojars.org/ is cool
23:27	cemerick	yeah; it is just a maven repository underneath tho
23:44	cemerick	That's a big state. :-)
23:45	cemerick	Maybe the silverdome is big enough?
23:45	Crowb4r	cemerick: pretty much, but thats no where they play anymore
23:45	cemerick	oh?
23:46	Crowb4r	they main arena is ford field
23:47	cemerick	really...when did that happen?
23:47	Crowb4r	almost 10 years ago
23:47	cemerick	sheesh
23:47	cemerick	I guess I internalized things from teh last time I was really following things
23:47	cemerick	the past 10 years have been busy :-P
23:47	cemerick	I always like that name, tho