#clojure – 2010-03-29

2010-03-29

00:27	Raynes	alexyk: Sure. Reify, deftype, defprotocol, and most of all, optional keyword argument destructuring. :D
00:27	alexyk	Raynes: I need a writeup for the dumb ones!
00:27	alexyk	or, for those who like to read!
00:47	brian__	test
00:49	brian__	hi, is it possible to use a regex as a predicate to the "filter" function? I want to filter out things from text?
00:51	joshua-choi	What you should use is (partial re-matches your-re).
00:51	brian__	ok
00:51	brian__	thnks
00:52	tomoj	re-matches has always seemed a bit strange t ome
00:52	tomoj	oh, re-find is what I was looking for
00:54	brian__	ok, well, ill take notice of your comment, thanks
00:57	tomoj	e.g.
00:57	tomoj	,(let [matcher (re-matcher #"foo (\S+)" "foo bar foo baz")] (take-while identity (repeatedly #(re-find matcher))))
00:57	clojurebot	(["foo bar" "bar"] ["foo baz" "baz"])
00:57	tomoj	how do we do that more simply?
00:57	tomoj	oh, re-seq
00:57	tomoj	of course
00:57	noidi	cemerick, thanks again for the maven post! I converted my hobby project to maven last weekend and now it's simpler, has more features and the dependencies are handled better :)
00:58	tomoj	,(re-seq #"foo (\S+)" "foo bar foo baz")
00:58	clojurebot	(["foo bar" "bar"] ["foo baz" "baz"])
00:58	cemerick	noidi: nice, glad to hear it. Feel free to share the good news. ;-)
00:58	cemerick	The polyglot maven stuff appears to be moving along at a faster clip again, which is even better news IMO.
00:59	cemerick	I might cut a quick demo of that shortly as well, just to provide a complete perspective on where things stand.
00:59	tomoj	cemerick: awesome :)
01:01	noidi	cemerick, it's a bit early to start singing maven's praises, but if a few months go by without problems I'll be a complete convert :)
01:01	cemerick	noidi: sure, that's why I included the ;-)
01:01	cemerick	:-D
01:01	noidi	:P
01:03	noidi	I think what scares people about maven is that it has a lot of new concepts, like the lifecycle, the local and remote repositories etc.
01:04	noidi	but they're actually very useful concepts once you learn them
01:07	noidi	actually make/etc. vs. maven reminds me a lot of word vs LaTeX... the latter looks incredibly dense and unflexible at first, but when you take the time to learn it, it automates a lot of tedious manual work
01:07	tomoj	hmm
01:07	tomoj	that comparison is enough to make me try to learn this maven stuff
01:07	tomoj	I became quite angry when a professor forced me to submit .doc files
01:10	cemerick	noidi: nice analogy
01:35	AntonyBlakey	ping
01:58	talios	wb tomoj
01:58	tomoj	thanks
01:58	tomoj	finally got wifi after suspend/resume working
01:58	tomoj	:)
01:59	talios	I only just got home/rejoined anyway :)
01:59	tomoj	my wifi has been flapping
01:59	tomoj	and I habitually M-x freenode so I end up flapping on freenode too :/
02:00	talios	darn emacs user :)
02:01	talios	I could never really get into emacs, I like it more than vi ho
02:01	talios	tho
02:05	tomoj	well, there's hope for you yet
02:05	tomoj	:P
02:05	talios	You can pry IntelliJ from my cold dead decaying remains.
02:07	tomoj	I don't think emacs can replace intellij for java
02:08	tomoj	I haven't tried any of the non-emacs clojure tools either :/
02:09	AntonyBlakey	Netbeans/Encloure/PolyglotMaven is turning out to be quite cool.
02:09	tomoj	t
02:09	tomoj	oops
02:09	tomoj	really need to disable mouse focusing...
02:10	tomoj	I plan to make some screencasts about emacs, with some about clojure
02:10	tomoj	I wonder if anyone has made any for the other tools..
02:10	AntonyBlakey	Yes they have
02:11	talios	tomoj: did you see cemerick's recent video on maven/netbeans with clojure/
02:11	talios	?
02:11	AntonyBlakey	A good emacs + clojure screencast would be one focusing on typical workflows, with supporting docs for the key binding
02:33	tomoj	talios: hadn't seen that
02:34	tomoj	AntonyBlakey: I'd intended to focus on typical workflows, basically covering the stuff that I use alot
02:34	tomoj	good idea re the supporting docs
02:34	tomoj	especially important with emacs... :(
02:35	AntonyBlakey	It would be good to see a walkthrough of a typical dev session involving multiple source files, xref-ing, building, debugging, packaging etc. So that the view can place themselves in your position and see all the things they need to do to develop in that environment.
02:36	AntonyBlakey	s/view/viewer/
02:37	AntonyBlakey	If the supporting docs were a form an annotated transcript then it would be a great multi-modal learning resource
02:37	AntonyBlakey	s/form an/form of/
02:37	tomoj	hadn't thought of that
02:38	tomoj	could make a blog-post style writeup mirroring the screencast
02:38	tomoj	then also provide a reference of all important functions/bindings
02:38	talios	I wonder if there's too much focus on the REPL?
02:38	talios	not that the REPL is bad
02:38	AntonyBlakey	Make the whole thing available as a PDF to go with the video. Easy to print and cogitate on offline, and to have next to you while trying your own stuff.
02:39	tomoj	just have to learn how to make pretty pdfs
02:39	AntonyBlakey	IMO there is too much focus on the REPL as a development environment. Not all programming is exploratory.
02:39	talios	tomoj: I have clojure code for that ;-)
02:40	tomoj	I'd probably try it in org-mode
02:40	talios	tomoj: http://www.talios.com/connecting_the_clouds__the_internet_in_new_zealand_in_pdf.htm <- using clojure + flying saucer to make PDFs
02:40	talios	tomoj: that post + pdf actually got me a 'cease and desist' letter from Internet NZ ;-)
02:41	talios	the actual PDF code is the last 4 lines. which just takes an HTML file with CSS and PDfs it
02:41	tomoj	nice
02:42	talios	mmm, must rewrite it to generate an .epub version of that book :)
02:42	talios	we use flyingsaucer at work for all our report generation
02:44	AntonyBlakey	I've used http://www.princexml.com/ commercially, which gives great results
02:44	talios	we looked at prince, then looked at the price, then looked elsewhere :)
02:45	AntonyBlakey	It's written in Mercury, which appeals.
02:45	AntonyBlakey	Yes, it's expensive for commercial use, although I got a good deal 'cos I was working on an Aid project.
02:45	talios	I don't think I know of Mercury? It rings a bell
02:45	AntonyBlakey	It's free for non-com
02:46	tomoj	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(programming_language) interesting
02:46	tomoj	I'd never heard of it either
02:46	AntonyBlakey	Mercury is like prolog, but with arg typing that makes it efficient
02:48	talios	interesting
02:49	talios	bbl - making myself some dinner, getting hungry here ;)
03:03	LauJensen	Morning all
03:04	Raynes	I think I've heard of most languages at this point.
03:04	Raynes	Morning Lau.
03:50	wooby	'lein test' doesn't seem to be referring a certain macro from my tested code, anyone run into something like that before?
03:50	wooby	things work nicely in clojure-test-mode
03:58	tomoj	wooby: you mean you get an error because the macro is missing?
03:59	wooby	tomoj, right
04:00	tomoj	hmm
04:00	wooby	i tried to 'lein compile' manually beforehand, didn't seem to make a difference
04:01	wooby	http://github.com/alandipert/clj-utils/blob/master/test/org/dipert/test/utils.clj is the code if you'd care to sanity check
04:01	wooby	the mystery macro is 'with-private-vars'
04:02	tomoj	puzzling
04:02	tomoj	I expected you might have to explicitly use the package that defines it
04:02	tomoj	but you already have :(
04:08	tomoj	wooby: I see the same error
04:08	wooby	tomoj, thanks for checking, i'm going to look at lein now
04:08	wooby	tomoj, are you using a recent lein?
04:09	tomoj	wooby: 1.1.0
04:10	tomoj	wooby: the problem appears to be that the ns declaration in org.dipert.test.utils is bad
04:11	tomoj	(:use clojure.test org.dipert.utils)
04:11	tomoj	only wrap in a list if it's actually a prefix list
04:11	tomoj	e.g. in the src file, (:use (clojure.contrib math)) works because that's really a prefix list
04:11	wooby	tomoj, you rule!
04:11	wooby	thanks
04:12	tomoj	going to confirm that this happens everywhere
04:12	wooby	sweet that fixed it
04:12	tomoj	yeah, when I try using (clojure.test), I get an error about deftest, even when using clojure-test-mode
04:13	Raynes	,(seq (.split "reege..wf2rewf." "."))
04:13	clojurebot	nil
04:13	Raynes	Huh? :o
04:14	tomoj	,(seq (.split "reege..wf2rewf." "\\."))
04:14	clojurebot	("reege" "" "wf2rewf")
04:14	tomoj	it's a regex :/
04:14	Raynes	Screw those nasty things. :\|
04:22	wooby	thanks again tomoj, i'm headed out
05:45	talios	/join #java
05:45	talios	bah
06:11	talios	'lo miclorb
06:11	miclorb	talios: ola
06:12	miclorb	excellent
06:12	talios	now if only tony and richard would get their edits done I could publish this :) I think 36/37 should go out BEFORE 38 :)
06:13	talios	maybe we should care less about removing ums and ars and silence more.. be good to get a more regular publishing going again
06:13	talios	not heard you on the asylum lately either?
06:14	miclorb	yeah - or just go for the biggest silences
06:14	miclorb	yeah hasn't been one recorded for a month (aim is only one a month)
06:14	miclorb	max has been travelling, lots of eclipse activity this time of year etc
06:14	talios	true. looking forward to seeing some videos out of eclipsecon
06:15	miclorb	talios: my eyes still glaze over when I hear osgi, so I gather eclipsecon would be a bit boring for me
06:16	talios	nod I still think we would have been more productive if we didn't go OSGi at work, but that decision was made before I started
06:17	talios	modularisation via maven + IoC would have served us just as well I think.
06:17	miclorb	yeah I assume it must be important to some, but I just don't care for the details - too removed from anything I care about
06:18	miclorb	talios: BTW I retiring from red hat
06:18	miclorb	will still do the podcast though
06:18	talios	oh? leaving drools as well, or just RH?
06:18	miclorb	just RH - will still contribute, but not that actively
06:19	talios	cool. So what are you doing? Going anywhere hip and c00l?
06:19	miclorb	workign on a startup - hopefully more will be public soon
06:19	miclorb	but has made me thinkg if we would use maven or not - kind of makes sense for open source projects etc...
06:20	miclorb	but otherwise - is it worth it? what worries me is hermetically sealed builds
06:20	talios	yeh, do you want to waste your time on builds and arguements on builds, or get your startup - started up.
06:21	miclorb	yeah - I find it easier if a lib is in maven just to slap in the dependency.. and whee... that bit I like
06:21	miclorb	anything that does that at least is good
06:22	miclorb	I have this fear though, which has been validated, I go on 3 week holiday, come back, and my code, in the same statae, no longer builds
06:22	miclorb	due to some dep change... just kind of unpleasant ;)
06:22	talios	well, if you lock down your version numbers that doesn't happen. and plugin versions have been locked by maven itself for awhile
06:23	miclorb	true
06:23	miclorb	this was specifically with the jetty plugin (used for testing etc) about 6 months ago
06:23	miclorb	had to go change my pom
06:23	talios	tho Richard pointed out that grails had a spring dep on [2.0,) - which pulled in 3.x and broke everything :)
06:23	miclorb	just annoyed me
06:23	miclorb	hahahahah
06:23	miclorb	yeah version ranges scare me
06:24	miclorb	the best build system to me is one someone else deals with ;)
06:27	talios	so what sort of things are you doing with clojure? I didn't realise you were looking at it
06:28	miclorb	nothing at the moment, just curious
06:30	talios	curious is a good place to be. One thing I love about clojure is its bringing some enjoyment back into coding small things again, in a way thats non-worky
06:30	talios	er, $worky even
06:30	Licenser_	hmm what is a good way to persistantly store data in clojure?
06:32	_ato	Licenser_: if it's small I just 'prn' stuff to a file and 'read' it back in. (well to be safer, prn to file.new, flush, then rename file.new to file)
06:32	talios	Licenser_: as in database? sql? I've seen a few people using neo4j and db4o, theres some nice clojure wrappers for them
06:33	Licenser_	I want something that does not require any extra effort, prn'ing stuff seems as a way but how fast/secure is it?
06:33	miclorb	talios: my only problem with clojure is that is painfully practical for me. With scheme I can keep it fun and at arms length ;)
06:33	Licenser_	I hoped that fleetdb works as an integrated database (without the need of a server) but it does not seem to do that
06:39	_ato	if you're worried about security (eg random people can mess with the stored file) then I guess spitting JSON out would be safer
06:39	_ato	although prn/read aren't bad you just need to remember to turn off the eval reader macro when reading
06:40	Licenser_	hmm eval reader macro?
06:40	_ato	,(read-string "#=(println \"hi\")")
06:40	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.Exception: EvalReader not allowed when read-eval is false.
06:40	_ato	heh
06:40	_ato	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(println \"hi\")"))
06:40	clojurebot	hi
06:41	_ato	read-eval normally defaults to true, I wonder if thats changed in git master or something
06:41	Licenser_	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(def x 1)"))
06:41	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.Exception: Can't resolve def
06:42	Licenser_	ouch
06:42	Licenser_	ouch ouch
06:42	Chousuke	:P
06:42	Licenser_	my sandbox does not check that
06:43	Licenser_	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(java.lang.Thread.)"))
06:43	clojurebot	#<Thread Thread[Thread-299,5,main]>
06:43	Licenser_	Ouch
06:43	Licenser_	clojure bot neither
06:43	Chousuke	I don't think it's even possible to guard against that :P
06:43	Chousuke	unless you can somehow make a var that doesn't support thread-local binding
06:43	Licenser_	Chousuke: I'll find a way
06:45	_ato	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(.alterVarRoot #'inc (fn [x] dec) [])"))
06:45	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.Exception: Can't resolve .alterVarRoot
06:47	_ato	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(println (.alterVarRoot #'inc (fn [x] dec) []))"))
06:47	clojurebot	(.alterVarRoot (var inc) (fn [x] dec) [])
06:48	_ato	strange
06:48	Chousuke	it doesn't actually evaluate things
06:49	Chousuke	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(type foo)))
06:49	clojurebot	EOF while reading string
06:49	Chousuke	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(type foo)"))
06:49	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Symbol
06:49	_ato	oh right
06:49	Chousuke	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(type (eval +))"))
06:49	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentList
06:49	Chousuke	oops
06:49	Chousuke	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(eval (type +))"))
06:49	clojurebot	clojure.core$_PLUS___4518
06:50	_ato	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(eval (.alterVarRoot #'inc (fn [x] dec) []))"))
06:50	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: alterVarRoot for class clojure.lang.Var
06:50	_ato	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(eval (.alterRoot #'inc (fn [x] dec) []))"))
06:50	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to clojure.lang.ISeq
06:50	_ato	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(eval (.alterRoot #'inc (fn [x] dec) (seqf [])))"))
06:50	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: seqf in this context
06:50	Chousuke	:P
06:50	_ato	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(eval (.alterRoot #'inc (fn [x] dec) (seq [])))"))
06:50	clojurebot	#<core$dec__4586 clojure.core$dec__4586@13a1b2>
06:50	_ato	,(inc 2)
06:50	Chousuke	,(inc 1)
06:50	clojurebot	3
06:50	clojurebot	2
06:50	_ato	aww
06:50	_ato	oh right
06:50	_ato	inc is a bad example
06:50	_ato	it'll be inlined
06:51	_ato	,(apply inc [2])
06:51	clojurebot	1
06:51	_ato	ha
06:51	Chousuke	now please fix it :P
06:51	patrkris	does anyone here know which property to check to see if the JVM is started with the -server flag?
06:51	_ato	whats it normally bound to.. something in clojure.lang.Numbers isn't it? hmmm
06:51	Licenser_	ouch!
06:51	tomoj	you could just check the process?
06:52	_ato	yeah
06:52	tomoj	unless you need to do this in a clojure program?
06:52	Chousuke	_ato: just (+ x 1) ought to be enough
06:52	Licenser_	okay thar'd not be possible with my sandbox I hope
06:52	patrkris	tomoj: Yeah I'd like to do it from a clojure program
06:52	_ato	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(eval (.alterRoot #'inc (fn [x] #(clojure.lang.Numbers/inc %)) (seq [])))"))
06:52	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval__5403$fn__5405$fn__5407 sandbox$eval__5403$fn__5405$fn__5407@15ca0cc>
06:52	_ato	,(apply inc [2])
06:52	clojurebot	3
06:52	tomoj	_ato: !!
06:53	tomoj	why did clojurebot let you do that?
06:53	_ato	cause I just found a hole in its sandbox
06:53	tomoj	the #= read macro doesn't call eval?
06:53	tomoj	,(eval '(+ 2 3))
06:53	clojurebot	DENIED
06:54	tomoj	I'm confused
06:54	Licenser_	hmm wait it should
06:54	Licenser_	narf
06:54	Chousuke	tomoj: clojurebot actually checks for the symbol eval, not the string
06:54	tomoj	please blog this
06:54	tomoj	oh, hmm, interesting
06:54	Chousuke	please don't :P
06:54	tomoj	blog it after it's fixed, I mean
06:54	Chousuke	is it worth a blog entry? :/
06:55	_ato	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(eval (defn hiredman-should-fix-this [x] (+ x 5)))"))
06:55	clojurebot	#'sandbox/hiredman-should-fix-this
06:55	tomoj	I think it leads to some deeper knowledge on the innards of clojure
06:55	_ato	,(hireman-should-fix-this 3)
06:55	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: hireman-should-fix-this in this context
06:55	Chousuke	it's just a hole in clojurebot's sandbox.
06:55	_ato	,(hiredman-should-fix-this 3)
06:55	clojurebot	8
06:55	_ato	yeah, okay, I'll stop playing with that now
06:55	tomoj	hehe
06:55	tomoj	but I still don't understand it, so I think I'm missing some background knowledge about clojure somewhere
06:56	_ato	simple enough to fix I guess, just add read-eval to the blacklist
06:56	Chousuke	I suppose hiredman will need to add a check for read-eval in the string to be read
06:56	_ato	yeah
06:56	Chousuke	tomoj: #=() is normally read-time eval
06:56	Chousuke	tomoj: read-eval bound to false disables that
06:56	tomoj	right, so we would use that for printable and readable data structures?
06:56	_ato	yep
06:56	tomoj	other than just the ones we've got
06:57	tomoj	kind sucks that we can't demo that in clojurebot
06:57	tomoj	hmm, how do datatypes fare for readably printing?
06:57	Chousuke	well, yes, but it's not very secure
06:57	Chousuke	datatypes have their own syntax
06:57	Chousuke	#:foo{:key val :key2 val2}
06:57	tomoj	awesome, I need to investigate this
06:57	tomoj	hadn't tried it yet
06:58	Licenser_	ah no does not work
06:58	tomoj	can't read it?
06:58	Licenser_	no I mean on my sandbox sinde you can't use bindings
06:59	tomoj	oh
06:59	tomoj	no bindings either?? why not?
06:59	Licenser_	I forgot them :(
06:59	Licenser_	I wonder if they are secure
06:59	tomoj	maybe there are some certain bindings you want to deny
06:59	Licenser_	also it'd not allow you to rebind read-eval
06:59	Licenser_	java.lang.SecurityException: Code did not pass sandbox guidelines: (#'clojure.core/push-thread-bindings #'clojure.core/read-eval #'clojure.core/read-string #'clojure.core/pop-thread-bindings)
07:00	Licenser_	that it what it says
07:00	tomoj	print-level
07:00	tomoj	though clojurebot deals with that outside the sandbox, I guess?
07:00	Licenser_	in the clj-sandbox you've to whitelist stuff
07:00	tomoj	Licenser_: that's very interesting for certain kinds of applications :)
07:00	Licenser_	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(eval (type +))"))
07:00	clojurebot	clojure.core$_PLUS___4518
07:01	Licenser_	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(eval (java.lang.File. \"/tmp\"))"))
07:01	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: java.lang.File
07:01	Licenser_	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(eval (java.io.File. \"/tmp\"))"))
07:01	clojurebot	#<File /tmp>
07:01	Licenser_	yuck, THAT is dangerous
07:01	_ato	,(java.io.File. "/tmp")
07:01	clojurebot	#<File /tmp>
07:01	Chousuke	That's not dangerous yet
07:01	tomoj	java will block your reads, right?
07:01	_ato	yeah
07:02	tomoj	could you also run it in a chroot jail or something
07:02	Licenser_	,(java.io.File. "/etc/profile")
07:02	clojurebot	#<File /etc/profile>
07:02	_ato	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(eval (.exists (java.io.File. \"/tmp\")))"))
07:02	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.io.FilePermission /tmp read)
07:02	Licenser_	ah good :)
07:02	Licenser_	hmm is /tmp is a directory, exists works on that?
07:03	Chousuke	(java.io.File. "foobarsdjfksdj")
07:03	Chousuke	,(java.io.File. "foobarsdjfksdj")
07:03	clojurebot	#<File foobarsdjfksdj>
07:03	Licenser_	,(binding [read-eval true] (read-string "#=(eval (.exists (java.io.File. \"/etc/profile\")))"))
07:03	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.io.FilePermission /etc/profile read)
07:03	Chousuke	basically, it doesn't matter to File whether the file exists or not
07:03	Licenser_	okay good news are you can't read them :)
07:04	tomoj	are there people like engineyard in the jvm world?
07:04	Licenser_	as in they know how it works or as in they run it on solaris?
07:07	_ato	google appengine I suppose might kind of count
07:07	tomoj	hmm, they have bad restrictions though, no?
07:07	tomoj	I mean, you don't get as much control
07:07	_ato	yep
07:07	tomoj	and limited choices
07:08	tomoj	I imagine you point to the git repo of a clojure project and boom
07:08	tomoj	and many options for data storage or whatever
07:12	_ato	googling java servlets hosting returns a lot of results
07:12	_ato	never heard of any of them, so I dunno if they're any good
07:17	Licenser_	oh wrong channel sorry
07:17	Licenser_	argh
07:17	Licenser_	,(eval '(+ 1 1))
07:17	clojurebot	DENIED
07:17	Licenser_	ah good
07:23	_ato	,(@(resolve (symbol "eval")) (read-string "(def on-a-roll-tonight true)"))
07:23	clojurebot	#'sandbox/on-a-roll-tonight
07:23	_ato	,on-a-roll-tonight
07:23	clojurebot	true
07:23	_ato	Licenser_: are you safe on that one?
07:26	Licenser_	_ato: let me test
07:27	Licenser_	java.lang.SecurityException: Code did not pass sandbox guidelines: (#'clojure.core/deref #'clojure.core/resolve #'clojure.core/symbol)
07:27	_ato	nice
07:27	Licenser_	while deref and symbol might want to work
07:27	Licenser_	resolve likely not
07:29	Licenser_	_ato: the approach I took is entirely differnt (at least on the security model, not the code, I got a good bit from clojurebot there). I work on a 'if it is not allowed it is forbidden' base, clojurebot works with 'if it is not forbidden it is allowed'
07:31	_ato	aah right
07:32	Licenser_	_ato: it's not entirely secure either, but it is quite OK)
07:34	_ato	ah it won't even let you use symbol
07:34	_ato	hmm tricky
07:35	_ato	oh.. but you have read-string
07:35	Licenser_	_ato: you can allow symbol, it will on the next version
07:35	Licenser_	yes just added it, not sure if it is good that I did :P
07:35	Licenser_	but you don't have eval
07:38	Licenser_	_ato: if you find any hole I will gladly fix it
07:40	_ato	found one!
07:40	_ato	err wait
07:40	_ato	maybe...
07:41	_ato	keep crashing my repl
07:41	_ato	hehe
07:41	Licenser_	oi, within our outside the sandbox?
07:42	_ato	outside
07:43	_ato	I'm just trying to do the same read-eval trick but with push-thread-bindings
07:43	Licenser_	ah okay, protectig you against yourself will not be implemented in 0.* of clj-sandbox
07:43	Licenser_	ah sneaky I think I nknow where you're going
07:44	Licenser_	but you can't access read-eval
07:44	_ato	yeah, just realised that
07:44	_ato	hmm
07:45	_ato	actually... (read-string "#'read-eval") works
07:45	Licenser_	yuck
07:45	Licenser_	that is sneaky
07:46	Licenser_	hmm hmm I wonder how to handle this
07:47	Licenser_	_ato: can you give me the exact test case?
07:47	_ato	oh
07:47	_ato	no it doesn't
07:47	Licenser_	of cause I could forbid read-string
07:47	_ato	cause its not evaled
07:47	Licenser_	great!
07:47	_ato	hehe
07:48	tomoj	you don't forbid read-string, but the (read-string "#=(eval ...)") trick above won't work in your sandbox?
07:48	Licenser_	tomoj: the sandbox runs with read-eval false.
07:49	Licenser_	at least my newest version :P
07:49	Licenser_	the one I just pushed
07:50	tomoj	oh, and you can't use binding, yeah, I get it
07:50	Licenser_	tomoj: you can
07:50	Licenser_	just can't bind read-eval
07:51	Licenser_	or any var that is prebound and not explictly allpowed
07:56	tomoj	oh, nice
07:57	tomoj	at what point does clojure block symbols?
07:57	tomoj	or does it just refuse to look inside strings?
07:57	Licenser_	tomoj: if you want to see examples, there are by now 4 projects I know of using clj-sandbox all are linked at the github page
07:57	Licenser_	tomoj: after reading the data structure is examined for possible 'bad functions'
07:58	Licenser_	or actually examined to make sure everything in there is allowed
07:58	tomoj	this is in clojurebot?
07:58	Licenser_	tomoj: no
07:58	tomoj	ah, in clj-sandbox?
07:59	tomoj	clojurebot has a problem clj-sandbox doesn't right?
07:59	Licenser_	clojurebot uses it's own sandbox, I just got many ideas from clojure bot :)
07:59	tomoj	I see
07:59	Licenser_	tomoj: they use different approachs
07:59	tomoj	I'm just wondering why clojurebot allows you to call eval when it's in a #= in a string
07:59	tomoj	right
07:59	tomoj	I think I understand yours
07:59	tomoj	and it sounds great
07:59	laynor	hi, I just got clojure box working. I noticed that the repl hangs if I (read-line). Is there any solution for this?
07:59	Licenser_	clojurebot blacklists a few functions clj-sandbox (at least by default) whitlists a few functions
08:00	Licenser_	laynor: why would you want to read line on the repl?
08:00	laynor	Licenser_: because I'm new to Clojure, just learning the basics
08:00	Licenser_	tomoj: it does not allow it but as seen above you can rebind read-eval and then it allows it
08:00	Licenser_	ah :)
08:01	_ato	nice job on clj-sandbox ;-)
08:01	Licenser_	laynor: well I think the problem is that read-linbe reads from STDIN and you can't access that from the repl
08:01	Licenser_	_ato: thanks a lot!
08:01	Licenser_	Raynes did a lot of good testing killing a few evil bugs
08:02	laynor	Licenser_: what puzzles me is that it works flawlessly with slime/sbcl
08:02	Licenser_	laynor: read-lines or repl?
08:02	laynor	Licenser_: yeah
08:03	Licenser_	it is a or question, 'yeah' isn't a valid answer there :P
08:03	laynor	oh, i just read "on" not "or"
08:03	Licenser_	^^
08:03	laynor	lol
08:03	Licenser_	it's like 'do you want coke or fanta?', "YEs please."
08:04	laynor	so, I can (read-line) on the repl with slime/sbcl, I can't with slime/clojure, ergo must be a problem with swank-closure
08:04	Licenser_	laynor: sbcl is what?
08:04	Licenser_	some comon lisp thingy?
08:04	laynor	Steel Bank Common Lisp
08:04	laynor	yeah
08:04	Licenser_	I gues the reson is that the clojure repl is forwarded over TCP or at leaqst some other way
08:05	Licenser_	repl != repl ;)
08:07	laynor	I'd say it's the same for sbcl
08:07	laynor	uhmuhm
08:10	laynor	Licenser_: also, if I run (read-line) in the inferior-lisp buffer, it works. Problems arise only on the repl.
08:10	Licenser_	ah sneakyt
08:10	Licenser_	perhaps you can write a bug report, then again I'm not sure if slime is maintained :(
08:10	laynor	uhm, but it's not slime, it's swank-clojure i'd say, as the repl works flawlessly with sbcl
08:11	Licenser_	then that :P)_
08:11	Licenser_	sorry I never can keep them apart
08:11	Licenser_	for me it is one bug fluffy emacs thingy
08:11	Licenser_	*big
08:11	laynor	I see :) So you basically use emacs for the sake of clojure?
08:12	Licenser_	laynor: yes
08:12	Licenser_	never used it before I started with clojure
08:12	laynor	oh, I am a vi person
08:12	Licenser_	still am I guess
08:12	laynor	I use viper/vimpulse on emacs
08:12	Licenser_	hmm no clue what that is
08:13	laynor	so I get slime and swank and vim bindings
08:13	Licenser_	in the end I just want it to work :( sadly didn't found any editor that really does that
08:13	laynor	Licenser_: vim emulation for emacs
08:13	Licenser_	ah
08:13	laynor	you should try it XD
08:14	Chousuke	I gave up viper because it didn't work so well with paredit
08:14	Licenser_	I fear I might get even more confused :(
08:14	Licenser_	I never understood this paredit thing, never got it to work, I guess I'm too stupid for emacs :P
08:14	Chousuke	if I used any of viper's deletion commands it would mess up the structure and throw off paredit:/
08:14	laynor	uhm, I don't really use paraedit, what can it do for me?
08:15	Chousuke	it's basically structural editing for lisp code
08:15	laynor	Chousuke: you can di( and da( on vimpulse btw
08:15	Licenser_	I think it is for editing sexps
08:15	_ato	Licenser_: (my-sandbox "(.alterRoot #'inc (fn [str] dec) (list))")
08:15	_ato	doesn't get you eval, but lets you mess up builtin functions
08:15	_ato	that might not count as breaking it thoug
08:15	Chousuke	works with non-lisp languages too.
08:15	Licenser_	_ato: of cause it does
08:16	Licenser_	can you give me the code to create my-sandbox?
08:16	Chousuke	(though obviously not as well)
08:16	_ato	it's just the one from your example: (def my-sandbox (stringify-sandbox (new-sandbox)))
08:16	Licenser_	okay
08:16	Licenser_	_ato: I just ask because I've had odd things already where people did strange things :P
08:16	laynor	uhm, I should give it a try and setup some bindings for viper ^^
08:18	Licenser_	_ato: okay this gets tricky ^^
08:19	Licenser_	I should just forbid . :P
08:20	_ato	got eval
08:20	_ato	but using .
08:21	Licenser_	nods
08:21	Licenser_	user=> (fn-seq '(.alterRoot #'inc (fn [str] dec) (list)))
08:21	Licenser_	(. #'clojure.core/inc fn* #'clojure.core/str #'clojure.core/dec #'clojure.core/list)
08:21	Licenser_	That is how I filter stuff
08:21	_ato	((.get (.findInternedVar (:ns (meta #'inc)) (read-string "eval"))) '(+ 1 1))
08:21	Licenser_	since it can't resolve alterRoot it ignores it
08:21	Licenser_	this is very trucky
08:22	Licenser_	hrm
08:22	Licenser_	but cutting off . make things harder :(
08:22	_ato	:(
08:22	Licenser_	hmm tricky thing
08:22	Licenser_	java interop is evil
08:23	_ato	sure is, clojure objects have too much stuff public ;-)
08:23	Licenser_	nods
08:23	Licenser_	I think the only way to work around this is either forbidding . or making very strage things
08:24	Licenser_	if you want people to use certainb java interop functions you could publish wrappers to the sandbox
08:25	_ato	yeah
08:25	_ato	probably the best way to do it
08:26	_ato	'spose that works for clojurebot too
08:26	_ato	,((.get (.findInternedVar (:ns (meta #'inc)) (read-string "eval"))) '(+ 1 1))
08:26	clojurebot	2
08:26	Licenser_	most likely
08:26	Licenser_	hmm I wonder if I could override .
08:27	Licenser_	no can't bind it
08:27	_ato	but you could substitute it
08:27	Licenser_	nods
08:27	Licenser_	that might be a way
08:27	_ato	walk the entered forms and replace all . with something else
08:27	Licenser_	but the first fix will be remove it\
08:28	SynrG	win 7
08:28	Licenser_	_ato: yea but read would still le- no wait it won't
08:28	Licenser_	since you can't eval
08:28	_ato	yep
08:28	Licenser_	hmm yea that might be a good way
08:28	Licenser_	then agai I'd have to either white or blacklist stuff
08:28	Licenser_	or ... go a diferent way and allow to call stuff ON certan types
08:29	Licenser_	hmm that is a idea
08:29	Licenser_	I'll see into this
08:29	Licenser_	but for now I head home
08:29	Licenser_	see you all later!
08:30	_ato	see you
08:30	laynor	bye :)
08:31	laynor	uhm, (.. System out (println "asdf")) doesn't print the output on the repl, only on the inferior-lisp buffer
08:44	raek	laynor: yes. the repl is connected to the swank server (inferior-lisp) with a socket
08:45	raek	and technically, you could have multiple repls connected to the same swank server
08:45	raek	slime seems to rebind clojure out to it's own repl buffer
08:46	raek	so (println "hello world") will print in the repl
08:46	tomoj	hmm, that's interesting
08:46	tomoj	is there support for multiple repls for one swank in other lisps?
08:46	raek	but since out is a thread-local binding, other threads will still print in inferior-lisp
08:47	tomoj	yeah
08:47	tomoj	that is awesome
08:47	raek	I have no experience with doing these sort of things in other lisps
08:48	tomoj	oh well
08:48	tomoj	what would be interesting is a way to provide a macro that causes all new threads spawned from something entered at the repl to use the repl out binding
08:49	raek	I think that's what bound-fn is for
08:49	raek	IIRC
08:49	raek	,(doc bound-fn)
08:49	clojurebot	Excuse me?
08:50	raek	"Returns a function defined by the given fntail, which will install the
08:50	raek	same bindings in effect as in the thread at the time bound-fn was called.
08:50	raek	This may be used to define a helper function which runs on a different
08:50	raek	thread, but needs the same bindings in place."
08:52	tomoj	aha
08:52	raek	ok, this is not a perfect match for the problem, but it is related, anyway
08:52	tomoj	very interesting
08:52	tomoj	where is that located?
08:52	raek	clojure.core
08:52	raek	http://richhickey.github.com/clojure/clojure.core-api.html#clojure.core/bound-fn
08:52	tomoj	never noticed it before
08:52	chouser	bound-fn is fairly new. 1.1 I think.
08:53	raek	haven't used it myself, yet
08:53	tomoj	bound-fn* is the real function
08:55	tomoj	can you optionally but unobtrusively add bound-fn's everywhere they need to go to make agents etc work with out?
08:57	raek	bound-fn would need to be added to all functions passed to the agent
08:58	raek	as the agent doesn't have to run the functions in the same thread
09:01	zmila	your are a bit stuck in clojure if looking at http://poehali.net/attach/meri_96_4.jpg you misread the name
09:02	raek	hehe, true
09:02	raek	:)
09:16	tomoj	raek: right, hmm
09:16	Licenser	aloa
09:17	tomoj	it might be possible by thread-locally rebinding the agent fns, no?
09:17	tomoj	with an with-out-repl macro or something
09:32	cburroughs	My recollection is that contrib 1.1.0 made it into maven central. But empirical evidence shows that this is clearly not the case. Does anyone know what the status of that is? The last message I could find on clojure-dev was by Stuart Sierra on Jan 4
09:35	dnolen	cgrand: ping
09:35	hugod	cburroughs: I'm not sure about central, but you might want http://build.clojure.org/releases/
09:36	cburroughs	hugod, yeah thanks. I'll probably just add that to the proxy list if our internal repo.
09:36	cgrand	dnolen: pong
09:37	cemerick	cburroughs: yeah, that's what we do shrug
09:37	cemerick	although contrib really should be in central, too
09:37	dnolen	cgrand: I've been looking at moustache :) so how do you do a redirect with moustache? Also app generates functions right? So it's easy to nest them.
09:41	cgrand	dnolen: funny you ask since I'm planning to dust off moustache :-) yes, apps being function compose, you can "mount" an app
09:43	dnolen	cgrand: I like the destructuring aspect of route definition in moustache, very idiomatic.
09:43	cgrand	dnolen: there's no support for redirects, you have to send your body map with the correct :status code
09:44	dnolen	cgrand: I see.
09:45	cgrand	I should add a middleware to handle relative redirections -- must check if compojure has one
09:45	dnolen	cgrand: any specific plans you have for moustache?
09:49	cburroughs	Now if I swank-clojure was just in a nice repo.
09:49	cgrand	dnolen: nothing specific except I'd like to dust it off since ring 0.2 makes moustache more useful
09:50	cgrand	dnolen: lockstep selectors are in http://gist.github.com/335527
09:51	dnolen	cgrand: nice :)
09:52	cgrand	and they are fast :-)
09:52	dnolen	:D
09:52	tomoj	hmm, how did we do that before?
09:53	cgrand	dnolen: are you planning a moustache tutorial? ;-)
09:55	dnolen	cgrand: heh, why not? Honestly it was more about getting fed up with my dog slow WordPress setup. I'm thinking about moving stuff over to Clojure. Ring+Moustache+Enlive looks like a good combination.
09:57	tomoj	moustache looks interesting
09:57	tomoj	but is it dead?
09:57	raek	what is this moustache? a ring-based web framework similar to compojure?
09:57	tomoj	looks even smaller than compojure
09:57	tomoj	perhaps something approaching compojure's features could be built out of it?
09:58	hugod	cburroughs: swank-clojure is in http://clojars.org/repo
09:58	tomoj	does moustache benefit from the destructuring improvements?
09:58	clojurebot	destructuring is http://clojure.org/special_forms#let
09:58	dnolen	tomoj: compojure 0.4 will be pretty small. since Ring 0.2 implements many of features now.
09:58	dnolen	many of its
09:58	tomoj	cool
09:58	tomoj	but I like the looks of moustache
09:58	tomoj	clojure's destructuring for routes is genious
09:58	raek	clojurebot: moustache?
09:58	clojurebot	No entiendo
09:58	tomoj	pure unadulterated genius
09:58	tomoj	http://github.com/cgrand/moustache
09:59	tomoj	see also http://gist.github.com/109955 (linked there)
09:59	tomoj	is anyone around who understands the change to destructuring?
09:59	cburroughs	hugod I know, but clojars is very un-conventional as a maven repo.
10:00	chouser	tomoj: I think so -- what do you want to know?
10:01	raek	ah, moustache looks really neat!
10:01	tomoj	chouser: umm.. can you just show something new that works?
10:01	tomoj	I can't tell from the code what the heck it does
10:02	tomoj	I'm wondering particularly if this opens up new routing possibilities for moustache
10:02	tomoj	but also just curious
10:02	tomoj	willing to blog about it if you get me started :)
10:02	tomoj	(or has someone already?)
10:02	chouser	,(let [f (fn [a b & {:keys [c d]}] [:my-args a b c d])] (f 1 2 :d 5))
10:02	clojurebot	[:my-args 1 2 nil nil]
10:02	tomoj	maybe I should search the logs
10:04	chouser	,(let [{a :a, b :b, c :c} (seq [:c 1 :b 2])] [a b c])
10:04	clojurebot	[nil nil nil]
10:04	chouser	heh. well, try those on a more recent clojure to see how they're useful. :-)
10:04	tomoj	oh, thanks a lot
10:05	tomoj	ok, very interesting
10:06	tomoj	the :my-args tag was helpful, good way to illustrate things
10:07	tomoj	so, hmm
10:07	tomoj	is there ever a case like that in routing?
10:07	tomoj	something like a PHP style /var1/value/var2/othervalue maybe
10:07	tomoj	but I'm not a big fan
10:08	noidi	is there a function that wraps its argument in a seq unless its one already?
10:08	noidi	i.e. (ensure-seq 1) => (1), (ensure-seq [1 2 3]) => [1 2 3]
10:08	chouser	a vector is not a seq
10:09	noidi	well, a coll then :)
10:09	chouser	but, probably not. rather few things in clojure core accept a collection or not and then treat them differently
10:10	chouser	collections are values too, so such usage would tend to be useful in more specific, rather than general, circumstances.
10:11	noidi	yeah, you're probably right
10:12	noidi	I'm writing swing code and would like to be able to say something like
10:12	noidi	(doto-named! widgets :foo enable, [:bar :baz] disable)
10:12	noidi	where widgets is a map
10:13	tomoj	that makes sense
10:13	noidi	and I was thinking that if there was something like ensure-coll, then I could deal with both the single names and colls of names with a doseq
10:13	tomoj	write your own, I suppose
10:13	tomoj	would coll? be best to use?
10:14	chouser	actually, might be one of the few good uses of 'sequential?'
10:14	tomoj	coll? accepts maps as well
10:14	chouser	,(sequential? {:a :b})
10:14	clojurebot	false
10:14	chouser	,(sequential? [:a :b])
10:14	clojurebot	true
10:15	wooby	,(sequential? #{:a :b})
10:15	clojurebot	false
10:15	chouser	,(sequential? (java.util.ArrayList. [:a :b]))
10:15	clojurebot	false
10:15	chouser	eh. so maybe not. :-)
10:15	tomoj	noidi: are you going to release a swing clojure wrapper?
10:16	cemerick	noidi: this is what we use in a similar use-case, but chouser's right to note that it won't work with java collections: http://paste.lisp.org/display/97020
10:16	noidi	tomoj, no, just getting rid of the boilerplate in my code :)
10:16	bsteuber	yeah, a swing wrapper would rock!
10:16	tomoj	ah
10:17	tomoj	I kind of want a rewrite of ruby's shoes in clojure
10:17	noidi	and doto-named! will not be swing-specific either, since it could be used to execute any side-effecty functions on any things in maps
10:17	noidi	man, my abstractions became _so_ much more effecient when I bit the bullet and got rid of all encapsulation and started thinking in seqs and colls
10:18	noidi	cemerick, thanks. I already have your let-map in my util.clj, btw. ;)
10:18	tomoj	how do I even build moustache?
10:18	cemerick	heh, good ol' let-map :-)
10:19	chouser	aren't they more often grown than built?
10:19	cemerick	that was a little crazy
10:19	chouser	sorry, nm.
10:20	cemerick	chouser: I wasn't referring your pun :-)
10:20	dnolen	tomoj: build it? just include it in your own code as you do with any library.
10:20	tomoj	huh
10:20	tomoj	joke?
10:23	fogus	tomoj: Chapter 9 of Joy of Clojure will be a good start for that Shoes port. ;-)
10:24	tomoj	cool
10:24	dnolen	http://gist.github.com/347880, cgrand
10:24	dnolen	's moustache example updated for Ring 0.2
10:24	tomoj	I personally want to be able to tinker with math stuff
10:24	chouser	cemerick: heh, yeah I know.
10:24	tomoj	but if people could use interaction, sound, graphics, it would be awesome
10:24	cp2	oh cool
10:24	tomoj	and I think java is capable
10:24	Chousuke	That reminds me... when do we get more chapters? :P
10:25	fogus	Chousuke: I wish I knew... they have been submitted are in review and should have been posted last week... but it seems chouser and I are the last to know the specifics. :-(
10:25	Chousuke	:/
10:26	tomoj	that's too bad, what is it they have to do?
10:28	fogus	tomoj: Some highly involved process of posting them to the site. :-p
10:29	tomoj	lame
10:29	tomoj	automate that shit
10:29	noidi	I'm glad to see that you have section about testing in "12. Clojure Will Change the Way You Program"
10:30	fogus	if it were in our hands you'd have updates every time we pushed to git
10:31	noidi	now that I've dropped the shackles of encapsulation, I've noticed that I don't feel the need to write unit tests anymore, wheras in Python I felt that TDD really helped me
10:31	chouser	for more instantaneous typo feedback. :-)
10:32	tomoj	got rid of all encapsulation?
10:32	tomoj	as in, just functions/values/macros, no classes/big deftypes/whatever?
10:33	noidi	yeah
10:33	noidi	tomoj, I used to write almost OO code in Clojure, but it seemed that no one else did that and got along just fine, so I took the plunge and decided to give it a try
10:34	tomoj	what clojure features did you use to emulate OO?
10:34	noidi	I'm not quite sure why, but for some reason Clojure code turns out just find with plain-old-data-objects
10:34	tomoj	:)
10:34	noidi	tomoj, namespaces for "classes", treating objects as black boxes only accessed via the namespaces' functions
10:35	tomoj	I see, and the objects are what?
10:35	tomoj	I mean, internally
10:35	noidi	whatever happened to be a natural fit, but mostly maps
10:36	tomoj	I see
10:37	noidi	I thought that it was pretty nice actually, even better than writing OO code in a language with built-in support
10:39	noidi	but don't worry, I got over that phase now. now my code looks much more like "normal" Clojure :)
10:46	raek	noidi: did this OO-like code invovle changes in state or was it persistent like clojure maps?
10:47	raek	btw, when is it ideomatic to use "next"?
10:48	raek	like this? (if (next some-lazy-seq) (there-is-a-rest) (no-rest))
10:49	noidi	raek, I tried to avoid side-effects and returned new "objects" from the "methods"
10:50	Chousuke	raek: that would be sensible
10:50	dnolen	cgrand: is the following valid? http://gist.github.com/347905. Will those fns get the request map?
10:55	slyphon	is the difference between binding and with-bindings that one is global and one is thread-local?
10:57	wooby	anyone know a nice way to do something like (map :title (map :attr ...) without repetition?
10:58	drewr	wooby: (map (comp :title :attr) ...)
10:59	raek	noidi: to me, that sounds like functional code with a lot of abstraction
10:59	wooby	you are awesome, thanks drewr
11:00	mattrepl	wooby: alternatively, (map #(-> % :attr :title) ...)
11:02	wooby	ah yes, thanks mattrepl
11:02	mattrepl	and there's also get-in
11:02	slyphon	heh
11:02	slyphon	we really need a get-over-here!
11:04	drewr	and get-back which operates on jojo collections
11:04	slyphon	drewr: :D
11:04	slyphon	winnar!
11:10	cgrand	dnolen: all your *-post functions should get the request map as their only arg
11:11	dnolen	cgrand: yeah just got it working :) moustache is _cool_.
11:12	dnolen	cgrand: heh, ring has redirect
11:13	cgrand	dnolen: you know that you merge your two ["new"] routes to dispatch to {:get new-post :post save-post}
11:13	cgrand	dnolen: absolute redirect I guess
11:14	dnolen	cgrand: yeah
11:14	cgrand	btw, what did you update in the walkthrough? Only the ns form and the definition of server?
11:14	dnolen	cgrand: yes
11:14	dnolen	ring 0.2 support defining a server that doesn't join with the main thread.
11:15	slyphon	hey, what's the difference between with-bindings and binding? i looked at the code, but the subtlety escaped me
11:15	tomoj	dnolen: how?
11:15	tomoj	I can't figure it out
11:15	dnolen	tomoj: http://gist.github.com/347880
11:15	dnolen	line 13
11:15	tomoj	oh, ok :join false
11:16	tomoj	how do you start it up?
11:16	tomoj	(.start server) ?
11:16	dnolen	run-jetty starts the server and returns it
11:16	dnolen	you can stop it with (.stop server)
11:17	tomoj	great
11:17	tomoj	and this picks up changes to my-app?
11:17	dnolen	tomoj: yeah
11:18	tomoj	maybe want a defonce for server?
11:21	dnolen	tomoj: yeah that's what I did.
11:48	technomancy	hugod, LauJensen: hey guys
11:48	technomancy	sorry; been offline for a while
11:48	LauJensen	technomancy: Hey :)
11:48	hugod	technomancy: good morning
11:48	technomancy	I think swank-break is ready to merge
11:48	tomoj	awesome
11:48	LauJensen	Great !
11:49	hugod	:-)
11:49	technomancy	earlier when I tried it I was seeing some odd debug-ish (slime-rex) output in the repl buffer, but that was a while ago and I haven't been able to repro since
11:49	lpetit	hi all
11:49	LauJensen	Hi Laurent
11:49	lpetit	a question to emacs users
11:50	lpetit	is there a paredit command which allows to wrap with parens a text selection ?
11:50	technomancy	hugod: and it looks like you fixed inspector hyperlinks as well; that wasn't working a while ago.
11:50	technomancy	lpetit: if there's an active selection, pressing ( will do that
11:50	technomancy	same with [ and { iirc
11:50	lpetit	ok
11:50	lpetit	will the selection be lost at the end of the command ?
11:51	hugod	technomancy: yes - inspector should work fully now
11:51	noidi	lpetit, M-( wraps the sexps on which the point is on
11:51	technomancy	lpetit: no, it's preserved
11:51	technomancy	lpetit: but you don't have to emulate every single detail. =)
11:54	hugod	technomancy: how about the other branches? any concerns?
11:54	technomancy	hugod: can you tell me a bit more about the other branches you mentioned?
11:54	technomancy	jinx?
11:55	technomancy	I haven't gotten a chance to look at them yet
11:55	hugod	autodoc fixes autodoc for slime head
11:55	hugod	compile-file fixes compile-for-emacs in slime head
11:55	technomancy	oh, I was thinking that was related to Tom F's autodoc project, heh
11:56	hugod	exception-location does a better job of locating source code from stack trace and compile errors
11:56	hugod	hyperdoc links to clojure api docs
11:56	technomancy	awesome
11:56	tomoj	hmm
11:57	lpetit	nodi, technomancy: ok, from reading the docs, I thought it was just wrapping the next form
11:57	tomoj	(app ["hi" & {:strs ["name" "age"]}] {:get (format "Hello %s, age %s." name age)})
11:57	tomoj	that look right?
11:57	tomoj	doesn't seem to be working
11:57	lpetit	technomancy: /every single detail/ : agreed, I intend to improve it where it sucks :-p
11:57	technomancy	hehe
11:57	technomancy	good
11:57	chouser	tomoj: try [name age] instead of string literals there
11:58	tomoj	oh, I see
11:58	lpetit	technomancy: does paredit have structural selection of text ? Or maybe it's provided outside paredit ?
11:58	lpetit	s/have/provide/
11:59	tomoj	I think the question is, what do you want to do with the selection?
11:59	technomancy	hugod: btw, you don't necessarily need to run these branches by me; review by anyone who uses and is somewhat familiar with swank is enough to get them merged to master.
11:59	tomoj	chouser: hmm, more errors
12:00	lpetit	tomoj: answering to me ? (too many concurrent discussions, I'm lost :-) )
12:00	tomoj	lpetit: nope
12:00	tomoj	lpetit: oh, yep
12:00	tomoj	I mean, do you want to copy it?
12:00	hugod	technomancy: ok, I just discovered there's a ml for swank-clojure - I'll try and make use of it ...
12:01	lpetit	tomoj: why answer my question with a question ? :-) I may want to wrap it with (, copy it, cut it, send it to the REPL, there are a lot of answers !
12:01	tomoj	indeed
12:01	tomoj	but what I am saying is that you might not need some feature
12:01	lpetit	tomoj: so again, my question :-)
12:01	technomancy	hugod: asking in here would probably get you some volunteers too
12:01	tomoj	three of those use cases don't need "selection" as such
12:01	tomoj	wrap with ( - put the point before the sexp and hit M-(
12:02	lpetit	tomoj: agree on the general case. Concerning the particular case, I'm pretty sure I need it (though you can try prove I'm wrong :-) )
12:02	tomoj	cut - put the point before the sexp and hit C-M-k
12:02	tomoj	send to repl - put the point after the sexp and hit ... some key
12:02	tomoj	(depending on how exactly you want to send it to the repl)
12:03	lpetit	I don't want to put the point before the sexp, I want to discover what I want to wrap while I'm expanding to the left, to the right, or with the parent sexpr
12:03	tomoj	I'm not sure how that makes sense
12:03	tomoj	like, a couple keys you can press over and over to expand the selection iteratively?
12:03	lpetit	tomoj: First: I don't have to remember a new command for wrap with ( (I will then just hit ( ), etc.
12:04	lpetit	tomoj: yes
12:04	tomoj	ok
12:04	tomoj	I don't think there is anything for that
12:04	tomoj	but the wrapping keys aren't that hard to remember :) they're M plus whatever you want to wrap with
12:04	tomoj	if you write something like that I'm sure people would be interested
12:04	lpetit	tomoj: imagine you want to select 3 siblings (so not just a single form) from one point to another
12:05	lpetit	tomoj: agreed, the particular examples were not that bad
12:05	lpetit	s/from/and move them from/
12:05	tomoj	C-SPC C-u 3 M-f
12:05	tomoj	then C-w to cut, C-y somewhere else to yank
12:05	tomoj	s/cut/kill/
12:06	lpetit	tomoj: wow, we don't have this in Eclipse. And I'm not sure I miss it either ;-)
12:06	tomoj	of course you can just hit M-f multiple times instead :)
12:06	tomoj	hehe
12:06	tomoj	well, maybe you have to be a bit insane
12:07	lpetit	tomoj: I'm dead sure I'm insane, or I won't be on the clojure bandwagon :-)
12:07	lpetit	s/won't/would'nt/
12:07	tomoj	I meant, insane to like emacs
12:07	lpetit	tomoj: oh :-)
12:08	tomoj	I'm also sure I'm insane :)
12:08	lpetit	tomoj: no, I'm quite sure it's a great environment for power users.
12:08	tomoj	yep
12:08	tomoj	a big investment I think, though
12:09	lpetit	woops, was deconnected for a minute or two. Missed smth ?
12:09	cgrand	tomoj: I don't think you can make it work without modifying moustache
12:09	tomoj	that's what I had guessed
12:10	tomoj	it seems to be using clojure.core/destructure
12:10	tomoj	but taking chouser suggestion, I get "java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn"
12:13	tomoj	,(let [[foo & {:strs [name age]}] ["hi" "name" "tom" "age" "22"]] (format "Hello %s, age %s." name age))
12:13	clojurebot	"Hello null, age null."
12:13	tomoj	well, yeah
12:14	tomoj	but, moustache must be doing something to allow literals in there
12:15	tomoj	oh, whoops
12:16	cgrand	tomoj: try (app ["hi" & [& {:strs ["name" "age"]}]] {:get (format "Hello %s, age %s." name age)}) with url /hi/name/Lucy/age/23
12:16	cgrand	not pretty but it should work
12:17	tomoj	still getting an error
12:18	chouser	unless you're doing something really unusual, the vector after :strs should contain symbols, not string literals
12:18	tomoj	yes, made that change
12:18	tomoj	still no joy
12:19	tomoj	(app ["hi" & rest] {:get (str rest)}) doesn't even work
12:19	cgrand	chouser: true, I blindly copy-pasted
12:20	tomoj	what the heck, now ["hi" name] doesn't even work
12:22	tomoj	uhh
12:22	tomoj	I am boggled
12:25	tomoj	https://gist.github.com/c139721c1fdcda8ee34f
12:26	tomoj	the exception https://gist.github.com/037ed61415f0f7ce464f
12:28	tomoj	I think I understand
12:29	tomoj	(app ["hi" & {:strs [name age]}] {:get ["" (format "Hello %s, age %s." name age)]})
12:30	tomoj	need a literal string there or the string will be called as a function
12:30	chouser	exception handling is so messy.
12:42	tomoj	cgrand: thanks for leinifying
12:46	cgrand	tomoj: yw but I haven't been able to push it to clojars yet (it seems down)
12:46	tomoj	no problem
12:46	tomoj	I had already leinified myself anyway
12:54	Crowb4r	When is 1.2 being released?
12:54	chouser	when it stops changing
12:55	chouser	or myabe that's the other way around
13:12	raek	how would you name functions for serializing/unserializing or interpreting/emitting data structures?
13:13	raek	as a part of a web server, I have functions to serialize and unserialize to various data formats
13:13	raek	I think "render" is a term that is used in some web frameworks, but what would the inverse be called?
13:14	tomoj	hydrate?
13:14	tomoj	I dunno
13:16	raek	analyze/synthesize is a nice combo
13:16	raek	but maybe too general
13:16	raek	for (un-)serialization to strings I consider parse/format
13:17	tomoj	sounds goo
13:17	tomoj	good
13:18	dnolen	cgrand: are you going to push moustache to clojars?
13:22	technomancy	hugod: merged/pushed break to swank master
13:23	technomancy	thanks a bunch!
13:23	cgrand	dnolen: yeah as soon as clojars is back -- wait it is
13:23	technomancy	I'll try to take a look at the other branches later this week.
13:23	hugod	technomancy: yeah!
13:24	technomancy	of course if someone else reviews them first you're welcome to merge them without me
13:24	technomancy	just be sure if you're using slime master also to check against elpa slime
13:25	hugod	I'll try and find time to do that - I'd rather find someone with elpa slime installed than checking elpa myself
13:26	dnolen	technomancy: so does that mean swank-clojure will work with slime master again? :)
13:27	technomancy	dnolen: maybe so... if you help hugo review his branches you can make it happen sooner. =)
13:27	hugod	dnolen: that requires the compile-file (and autodoc) branch
13:27	technomancy	tbh I am not sure I know about all the details of the divergence in master that's causing breakage
13:27	dnolen	hugod: in your fork right? or techonmancy's ?
13:28	hugod	autodoc is only required if you are using slime-autodoc
13:28	hugod	in technomancy's
13:28	hugod	I should delete my fork
13:28	dnolen	cgrand: cool. it also looks like ring 0.2 just got released.
13:30	cgrand	dnolen: well it seems clojars still has problems so be patient
13:30	dnolen	cgrand: oh gotcha.
13:37	dnolen	hugod: so how do you test your stuff? do you create an uberjar?
13:39	hugod	dnolen: I do a lein install locally. Maybe it would be easier if we created versions of swank-clojure in clojars for each of the branches?
13:40	dnolen	hugod: oh I see, never used lein install before. So that jars up the project and put's it into .m2 ? then you can add it as a dependency ?
13:43	hugod	dnolen: indeed - though I normally edit project.clj to give it a different name 1.2-xxx-SNAPSHOT
13:45	hugod	lein jar should work too - and then manually copy the jar into your project
13:46	dnolen	hugod: cool, I'll definitely give the compile-files branch a spin later today.
13:47	tomoj	if you have lein jar might as well use lein install, eh?
13:48	hugod	depends whether you want the modified jar in your local .m2, where it will be picked up by all your projects
13:48	tomoj	oh, good point
13:48	tomoj	guess you could tag your branch name in the version, but meh
13:49	hugod	I do locally, but commiting that would make merging the branch more painful
13:51	tomoj	ah yeah
13:54	tomoj	hmm, gotta install jruby to get polyglot-maven working?
14:00	stuartsierra	tomoj: probably a development thing
14:05	tomoj	stuartsierra: as in, this problem should go away?
14:05	tomoj	I can't get pmaven-cli to build because pmaven-jruby fails
14:05	tomoj	pmaven-scala might as well, dunno
14:08	stuartsierra	tomoj: I dunno, you'd have to ask talios.
14:12	tomoj	ok, thanks
14:18	TakeV	Is there a way to get keyboard input, without using the java libraries?
14:21	The-Kenny	TakeV: (read-line)?
14:21	The-Kenny	,(read-line)
14:21	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
14:21	The-Kenny	,(doc read-line)
14:21	clojurebot	"([]); Reads the next line from stream that is the current value of in ."
14:22	TakeV	Huh, didn't know about that. Thank you.
14:22	The-Kenny	You're welcome
14:38	Borkdude	hi
14:39	raek	hello
14:40	Borkdude	I have posted a Clojure question on StackOverflow, maybe you guys want to take a look. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2540237/are-the-square-brackets-in-clojures-defn-defmacro-and-binding-really-a-vector
14:43	dcorbin_work	Is the J in clojure pronounced as a J or an S?
14:43	chouser	I think rhickey has said it's pronounced exactly like "closure"
14:43	lancepantz	thats how i pronounce it
14:43	chouser	I tend to harden it toward a "J" just enough that it sounds different to me, but to nobody else. Kinda useless.
14:44	Raynes	chouser: Likewise.
14:44	TakeV	Huh, I've been pronouncing it "Clo-jer".
14:46	Borkdude	ah I had a conversation with someone from the Java community, I asked him if he ever heard of Clojure
14:46	Borkdude	then he answered: a closure, yes I heared about it
14:46	Raynes	Hehe.
14:46	Borkdude	then I tried to explain him, no, not the programming language concept closure, but the language Clojure
14:47	Borkdude	so now I still dont know what he meant... :)
14:48	fogus	,(eval (list (list 'fn (vector 'x) (list '* 'x 2)) 100))
14:48	clojurebot	DENIED
14:48	fogus	:(
14:48	LauJensen	I blogged about some high performance Clojure for Fluid Dynamics here: http://www.bestinclass.dk/index.php/2010/03/functional-fluid-dynamics-in-clojure/
14:48	fogus	fogusbot> 200
14:48	TakeV	Neat.
14:49	drewr	LauJensen: is that stuff related to your professional work?
14:49	LauJensen	drewr: Fluid Dynamics? No its for the kids :)
14:50	drewr	just wondering how you have time to write these elaborate (and apparently esoteric) posts
14:50	LauJensen	hehe
14:50	Borkdude	fogus, thanks for explaining the vector question on SO
14:51	hugod	LauJensen: cool - I do fluid dynamics too
14:51	LauJensen	drewr: This was 1) Because Ive always wanted to do some kind of swirly smoke sim, because I didnt know how, and 2) I ran into a former Epic Games engine developer, so I figured I'd grab the opportunity and ask him a few questions
14:52	drewr	LauJensen: fair enough :-)
14:53	cemerick	LauJensen: Stellar stuff. :-)
14:53	LauJensen	cemerick: Thanks :)
14:53	fogus	Borkdude: I hope it helps
14:53	Borkdude	it sure does
14:58	TakeV	So, is clojurebot hooked up to a REPL?
14:59	cemerick	LauJensen: How long should it take for a call to main to return? I'm pegged at 100%, but there's no jframe visible yet.
15:00	cemerick	hrm, seems like the frame should show up immediately
15:00	LauJensen	cemerick: On my system it shows up straight away
15:00	LauJensen	Oh, if youre on OSX I this setUndecorated and setLocation can trip you up
15:00	Borkdude	,(+ 1 2)
15:00	clojurebot	3
15:00	LauJensen	cemerick: Try and remove those please, i it solves it, I'll remove them
15:00	LauJensen	if
15:01	Borkdude	,(println (seq (.getURLs (java.lang.ClassLoader/getSystemClassLoader))))
15:01	clojurebot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.lang.RuntimePermission getClassLoader)
15:01	Borkdude	:)
15:01	Raynes	TakeV: Clojurebot simply evaluates code in a sandbox.
15:01	TakeV	Ah, that makes sense.
15:01	Raynes	TakeV: I do the same thing in my bot using Licenser's clj-sandbox.
15:02	TakeV	Clj-sandbox?
15:02	Raynes	http://github.com/Licenser/clj-sandbox
15:02	Raynes	It's pretty stable at this point. At least, I've not found anymore bugs. The default whitelist is seriously lacking because I haven't yet had time to go through the API adding safe functions.
15:03	Raynes	any more*
15:03	cemerick	LauJensen: Yup, that fixed it.
15:03	LauJensen	Thanks !
15:05	TakeV	Neat library.
15:10	Licenser	greetings Raynes
15:10	Raynes	Greetings.
15:11	Raynes	Licenser: I see you removed the . special form. What happened there? :o
15:28	dakrone	is there a way to get the REPL to allow me to type stuff like "せん" ?
15:29	dakrone	it shows up as "??" instead
15:29	raek	dakrone: clojure itself should not have any problems with unicode characters
15:29	raek	just make sure the source is in UTF-8
15:30	dakrone	raek: from the REPL though, not a file
15:30	raek	and that your terminal running the repl also is set up for UTF-8
15:30	TakeV	Is there a way to get Ant to make Clojure project?
15:30	dakrone	the terminal is working fine I am assuming since I can type those chars in zsh
15:30	dakrone	maybe it's jline?
15:31	raek	could be
15:31	raek	coult you try to enter the characters with "java -jar /path/to/clojure.jar"?
15:32	dakrone	ahhh yea, it's jline
15:32	danielfm	TakeV, Clojure uses Ant to build itself, which includes .clj files. Check out the source code
15:32	dakrone	removing it allows me to type it fine
15:32	raek	java sometimes uses the "system default encoding"
15:32	raek	you should be able to set that with some environment variable
15:33	raek	export LANG=en_US.UTF-8
15:33	raek	...in a sh-like shell (such as bash)
15:33	dakrone	raek: would that fix jline?
15:34	raek	maybe I should try this myself first...
15:34	danielfm	TakeV: http://github.com/richhickey/clojure
15:34	TakeV	Thanks.
15:37	raek	hrm, jline seems to ignore my LANG environment variable
15:37	raek	köttfärssås -> kÃ¶ttfÃ¤rssÃ¥s :(
15:38	dnolen	raek: dakrone: I've been looking into it but I haven't found any good answers yet. And I think jRuby ran into the same issues.
15:38	dakrone	hmm...I'm wondering what leiningen is doing to it too
15:38	dnolen	lein swank and lein repl both freeze if they receive unicode chars :(
15:39	ska2342	hi. feeling rather stupid right now, but how am I supposed to read 9 chars from a file? (apply (str (take 9 (repeatedly #(.read the-reader))))) ?
15:39	dakrone	if I do java -cp .:clojure.jar clojure.main, I can type "せん" fine, but "lein repl" and I get "??"
15:39	ska2342	uhm, forgot a char: #(char (.read the-reader)) ...
15:40	dakrone	technomancy: is there a way to see leiningen's command for running the repl with 'lein repl'?
15:40	raek	dnolen: that can be fixed
15:40	dnolen	raek: what did you do?
15:40	raek	swank-server has latin1 as the default
15:40	Raynes	dakrone: It's in the lein file itself.
15:40	raek	posting in a sec
15:41	dakrone	Raynes: ahh, looks like leiningen itself is including the jline jar
15:41	dakrone	I'll file a bug report
15:41	raek	dnolen: http://gist.github.com/348309
15:42	raek	I use this to start a swank server
15:42	raek	and then in .emacs: (custom-set-variables '(slime-net-coding-system (quote utf-8-unix)))
15:44	raek	if you leave out the slime or the swank option (I don't remember which) the repl will hang
15:44	raek	if both are set to latin1 or utf-8, it works
15:45	dnolen	raek: thanks for the pointers will try that out.
15:50	raek	sigh sometimes I wish that the English alphabet utilized more füñňý ĉḥäřáçťêrš, so that encoding related issues would be detected alot quicker
15:50	TakeV	I always thought that Q was a pretty funny letter.
15:51	Raynes	Not nearly as hilarious as w
16:05	Borkdude	Raynes: is there also such a clj-sandbox behind a Twitter account already?
16:05	Borkdude	so you can tweet a Clojure sexp and it replies its evaluation?
16:06	Raynes	Borkdude: No idea. Not that I've heard of.
16:09	KirinDave	lein test is broken?
16:10	LauJensen	Wee, Clojure on the frontpage of HackerNews :)
16:10	nuba	cool
16:11	fdaoud	link?
16:11	clojurebot	your link is dead
16:13	Raynes	http://news.ycombinator.com/
16:13	LauJensen	#24 :\|
16:13	KirinDave	I dunno what I need to do to get lein test working. it's never worked for me. :(
16:13	KirinDave	eternally bitching: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: getCommandLine for class org.apache.tools.ant.taskdefs.Java
16:14	fdaoud	silly me, I was looking at http://www.hackernews.com
16:14	Raynes	Lol.
16:14	KirinDave	Wow. Wft is that.
16:14	KirinDave	I dunno where to even begin with that site.
16:14	Borkdude	There's a nice interview with Rich in Linux Journal this month
16:14	fdaoud	yeah that's what i said
16:15	fdaoud	tried .net and .org before asking
16:15	KirinDave	fdaoud: Consider google.
16:16	fdaoud	hey how would you implement the observer pattern in Clojure? or any way of notifying listeners that something happened?
16:16	LauJensen	,(doc add-watcher)
16:16	clojurebot	"([reference send-type watcher-agent action-fn]); Experimental. Adds a watcher to an agent/atom/var/ref reference. The watcher must be an Agent, and the action a function of the agent's state and one additional arg, the reference. Whenever the reference's state changes, any registered watchers will have their actions sent. send-type must be one of :send or :send-off. The actions will be sent after the reference's state is
16:16	KirinDave	That's good for observables.
16:16	fdaoud	excellent, thanks LauJensen
16:16	KirinDave	LauJensen: The canonical lisp way is "hooks"
16:17	KirinDave	LauJensen: If its' not a data thing.
16:25	kotarak	,(doc add-watch)
16:25	clojurebot	"([reference key fn]); Experimental. Adds a watch function to an agent/atom/var/ref reference. The watch fn must be a fn of 4 args: a key, the reference, its old-state, its new-state. Whenever the reference's state might have been changed, any registered watches will have their functions called. The watch fn will be called synchronously, on the agent's thread if an agent, before any pending sends if agent or ref. Note that
16:26	glogic	kotarak: where does the doc come from
16:26	glogic	kotarak: doc string?
16:27	kotarak	yes
16:27	glogic	kotarak: so doc is apropos
16:27	glogic	tha'ts quite the doc string then
16:27	kotarak	doc is doc
16:29	glogic	clojurebot should probably send long docstring via privmsg imho
16:29	Raynes	glogic: Bother hiredman about it.
16:30	Raynes	I doubt he would want to do that though.
16:30	glogic	Raynes: well
16:30	glogic	Raynes: that doc string
16:30	Raynes	Being able to pull up a docstring for somebody would be useful.
16:30	glogic	Raynes: is clearly too long it's cut off
16:30	glogic	Raynes: ref. Note that
16:30	glogic	Raynes: not contextually useful
16:31	glogic	tha'ts all i was saying
16:31	Raynes	It's pretty useful. :\
16:31	glogic	righ tup until it cust the rest off
16:31	Raynes	Or, you could just direct output to the person you have in mind.
16:32	glogic	that would be ideal
16:32	glogic	if tha'ts possible already just ignore the suggestion then
16:32	alexyk	is there a version of nth with swapped parameters?
16:32	glogic	,(doc nth)
16:32	clojurebot	"([coll index] [coll index not-found]); Returns the value at the index. get returns nil if index out of bounds, nth throws an exception unless not-found is supplied. nth also works for strings, Java arrays, regex Matchers and Lists, and, in O(n) time, for sequences."
16:33	alexyk	and?
16:33	glogic	oh no idea i just wanted to look something up
16:33	glogic	mostly because i don't know what nth looks like
16:33	alexyk	ok this one time
16:33	alexyk	:)
16:34	glogic	what do you mean by swapped parameters
16:34	dakrone	(defn nth2 [index coll] (nth coll index)) ?
16:34	alexyk	in FP it's typical to curry, so if you want a partial with a fixed index instead of collection, you need swapped-nth n coll
16:35	alexyk	dakrone: yeah, I can do it; was wondering why nth is swapped w.r.t. say take, and maybe there's a swap adaptor already or something in stdlib
16:35	glogic	alexyk: least surprise maybe
16:35	glogic	alexyk: that's my initial guess
16:35	alexyk	to me it's most surprise, after take/drop
16:35	glogic	i bet
16:36	dakrone	alexyk: or (->> 1 (nth [1 2 3]))
16:36	glogic	,(doc ->>)
16:36	clojurebot	"([x form] [x form & more]); Threads the expr through the forms. Inserts x as the last item in the first form, making a list of it if it is not a list already. If there are more forms, inserts the first form as the last item in second form, etc."
16:36	dakrone	which is kinda like what you want I think
16:36	dakrone	,(->> 1 (nth [1 2 3]))
16:36	clojurebot	2
16:36	alexyk	dakrone: indeed
16:36	glogic	ok wow
16:37	Raynes	,(nth 1 [1 2 3])
16:37	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
16:37	Raynes	,(nth [1 2 3] 1)
16:37	clojurebot	2
16:38	alexyk	let's all buy qlogic and Raynes a repl shall we
16:38	Raynes	Why would you use ->> for such a simple form?
16:38	timmcd	Hello!
16:38	dakrone	just to be able to have the index before the collection
16:39	timmcd	I was wondering if there was a way to import all classes from a group? Ie: (import '(java.net ) '(java.io ))
16:39	timmcd	or the like?
16:39	Raynes	Nope.
16:40	timmcd	:( Have to by hand import all the classes? K
16:41	TakeV	Huh.
16:42	TakeV	,(nth {:x 5 :y 7 :z 12} 1)
16:42	clojurebot	java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: nth not supported on this type: PersistentArrayMap
16:42	TakeV	Aw.
16:42	glogic	splendid exception handling though
16:42	glogic	pretty
16:43	glogic	,(nth (1 2 3 4))
16:43	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Integer cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
16:43	glogic	aw
16:43	glogic	,(nth (1 2 3 4) 1)
16:43	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Integer cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
16:43	alexyk	when working with agents for N threads speedup, does it make sense to have N global agents and send them work, or create agents in defn's locally?
16:43	glogic	,(doc nth)
16:43	clojurebot	"([coll index] [coll index not-found]); Returns the value at the index. get returns nil if index out of bounds, nth throws an exception unless not-found is supplied. nth also works for strings, Java arrays, regex Matchers and Lists, and, in O(n) time, for sequences."
16:43	glogic	:(
16:43	fdaoud	,(nth [1 2 3 4] 1)
16:43	clojurebot	2
16:43	dakrone	glogic: it's trying to call the function called "1"
16:43	fdaoud	([1 2 3 4] 1)
16:43	glogic	ya i redid it though
16:43	fdaoud	,([1 2 3 4] 1)
16:43	clojurebot	2
16:43	glogic	,(nth (1 2 3 4) 1)
16:43	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Integer cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
16:44	glogic	aw
16:44	glogic	,(nth [1 2 3 4] 1)
16:44	clojurebot	2
16:44	fdaoud	,(nth '(1 2 3 4) 1)
16:44	clojurebot	2
16:44	fdaoud	,('(1 2 3 4) 1)
16:44	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentList cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
16:44	glogic	you guys are fun
16:44	TakeV	Wait, you don't need the nth?
16:44	fdaoud	not for vectors
16:44	TakeV	,([1 2 3 4 5] 2)
16:44	clojurebot	3
16:44	fdaoud	vectors are functions of their indexes
16:44	TakeV	,(count [1 2 3])
16:44	clojurebot	3
16:45	TakeV	Ah, true.
16:46	shales	Has anyone used a java.nio.ByteBuffer in clojure to pull apart or build some binary data like a packet?
16:52	The-Kenny	shales: Yeah, I've done this. But rather ugly and imperative
16:53	The-Kenny	shales: http://github.com/the-kenny/netwars-clj/blob/master/src/netwars/map_loader.clj#L123
16:53	The-Kenny	It's rather ugly, with much special cases
16:54	shales	thanks. I've written some helper functions for working with ByteBuffers too http://github.com/geoffsalmon/bonjure/blob/master/src/bonjure/bytebuffer.clj
16:54	shales	Wanted to see how other people had approached it
16:56	The-Kenny	shales: Oh, they look very nice. Maybe I'll try them :)
16:57	shales	missing your read-n-string and read-null-string
16:59	TakeV	So, with compile, it compiles the passed namespace into a class? Even namespaces that were created in REPL, without any source file?
17:05	astoddard	Has anyone out there been using the "map-invert" function in clojure.set? It ignores duplicated values (becoming keys), with the one picked being arbitrary.
17:06	astoddard	Maybe that behavior is considered obvious but I wonder if it should at least be documented.
17:13	slyphon	so, is there a difference between "with-bindings" and "binding"?
17:14	slyphon	binding uses this "var-ize" fn, but i'm not really sure what that does...
17:17	kotarak	slyphon: with-bindings is more low-level. Normally you should use binding.
17:17	slyphon	ok
17:17	kotarak	slyphon: (binding [a b] ...) <=> (with-bindings {(var a) b} ...)
17:17	slyphon	i was concerned at first that one was thread-local and the other wasn't, but it seems they both are
17:17	slyphon	ahhh
17:18	dnolen	nice: http://mmcgrana.github.com/2010/03/clojure-web-development-ring.html
17:18	slyphon	before you die, you see "the ring"
17:20	raek	I really like the idea of this standardized way of representing requests and responses
17:22	TakeV	Is Ring supposed to be to Clojure as what Rails is to Ruby?
17:22	chouser	no
17:22	lancepantz	it's rack
17:22	slyphon	yay rack!
17:23	chouser	we don't have anything as big and frameworky as rails yet, I think.
17:23	TakeV	Ah.
17:23	TakeV	Rails is quite a nice system.
17:23	slyphon	rails is "ok"
17:23	lancepantz	i've seen a couple of project on github attempting, they are all pretty new still though
17:23	chouser	compojure may have been headed there at one point, but has fortunately been adjusting more toward being a comprehensive library
17:24	lancepantz	TakeV: compojure is similar to sinatra, if you've used it
17:24	TakeV	I have not.
17:24	TakeV	To google!
17:27	dnolen	well from the looks of it tho, Compojure 0.4 is now really just a routing library. Like Moustache.
17:28	gstamp	Quick question... Say I have an array [1 2 3] and I want to repeat it indefinitely so that the output looks like (1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3...), how would I do it? I originally was thinking (repeat [1 2 3]) but that gives me ([1 2 3] [1 2 3] ...)
17:28	dnolen	Ring 0.2 does all the heavy lifting that Compojure (and then some it seems) that Compojure 0.3.2 used to do.
17:28	lancepantz	dnolen: i think actually uses clout for the routing library
17:28	chouser	,(take 20 (cycle [1 2 3]))
17:28	clojurebot	(1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2)
17:28	lancepantz	it's pretty thin now, just a few macros
17:28	gstamp	awesome, thank you
17:29	dnolen	lancepantz: oh yeah, yr right
17:29	chouser	gstamp: note the input there is a vector (not an array) and the output is a seq
17:30	gstamp	chouser: that's fine for my purposes. I actually remember reading about cycle but had forgotten it. :-)
17:40	brian__	Hi, Is there a better way to increment through two or more sequences than this: (doseq [line (map #(str %1 " (" %2 ")") w v)]) , pull the values from "line" ?
17:41	raek	brian__: have you tried "for"?
17:42	brian__	no, i'll take a look, thanks
17:42	chouser	'map' is the way to walk two or more seqs in step
17:42	raek	brian__: what is the desired input and output for your function?
17:42	chouser	or sometimes 'zipmap', but I don't think that applies here
17:43	brian__	it seems a little clunky to have to parse the values from a string
17:43	brian__	I mean sequence
17:44	raek	brian__: can you give an example input and output?
17:44	brian__	ok
17:45	brian__	v - names , w - ages and I want to input to a database
17:45	brian__	for example
17:46	brian__	so in the above I have to figure out the exact index for each variable I want to input to the database, seems a little clinky
17:46	brian__	clunky
17:47	raek	so, you have two sequences, eg names = ["fred" "ethel"], ages = [30 40]
17:48	raek	what should the code output?
17:48	raek	("fred (30)" "ethel (40)") ?
17:48	brian__	db.input(:age 30)
17:48	brian__	db.input(:age 30 :name fred)
17:49	brian__	i mean
17:49	raek	,(interleave ["a" "b" "c"] [1 2 3])
17:49	clojurebot	("a" 1 "b" 2 "c" 3)
17:50	raek	,(partition 2 (interleave ["a" "b" "c"] [1 2 3]))
17:50	clojurebot	(("a" 1) ("b" 2) ("c" 3))
17:50	kotarak	(doseq [[name age] (map vector names ages)] (.input db :age age :name name))
17:50	brian__	ok , thats good
17:50	raek	ah, (map vector name ages) accomplishes this better
17:50	Chousuke	or (doseq [name names age ages] ...)
17:51	Chousuke	or hm
17:51	kotarak	or (doseq [[name age] (zipmap names ages)] ...)
17:51	Chousuke	I think that does a cartesian product :P
17:51	brian__	ok because i didn't see ant example of multiple sequences for doseq online
17:52	brian__	thanks guys
17:56	raek	oh btw, has anyone thought about making a if-not-let macro?
17:56	raek	if-let is great for error handling
17:57	raek	but I like having special cases and error handlig first
17:58	raek	I was thinking about something like this: (if-not-let [foo (might-yield-nil)] (report "foo is nil") (do-stuff foo))
17:58	raek	simply if-let, but with the true and false branch swapped
18:14	nteon	is there a way to examine a function I've created in a slime session?
18:14	nteon	perhaps a way to dump the bytecode to disk, and use a disassembler?
18:16	arohner	nteon: the tools are all there, but undocumented
18:16	arohner	nteon: all clojure fns are classes
18:16	arohner	and you can ask the classloader the class came from for its bytecode
18:20	arohner	nteon: hrm, maybe I was wrong about asking the classloader for its bytes. I can't find the method now
18:22	arohner	nteon: one thing I'm more sure about is if you precompile your clojure code, you'll get a directory full of .class files
18:22	nteon	arohner: yea, thgats what I'm going to resort to
18:23	mattrepl	arohner: re: classloader and fetching compiled class' bytecode, sounds familiar
18:25	mattrepl	maybe it's just the other way bytes -> class
18:26	arohner	mattrepl: yeah, I found the method to define a class by passing a byte []. I thought the inverse existed. shrug
18:42	glogic	,(doc defn)
18:42	clojurebot	"([name doc-string? attr-map? [params] body] [name doc-string? attr-map? ([params] body) + attr-map?]); Same as (def name (fn [params* ] exprs)) or (def name (fn ([params ] exprs*)+)) with any doc-string or attrs added to the var metadata"
18:43	glogic	ok wow i'm lost
18:46	dakrone	glogic: what are you trying to find?
18:48	glogic	dakrone: well
18:48	glogic	dakrone: i dont' expect all the docstrings to make perfect sense obviously but that one is kind of a dump of all the possible forms of defines i think
18:49	glogic	dakrone: so it takes some parsing, whcih is fine i just wans't expecting quite that much ifnromatin on that
18:49	Raynes	Type a little slower. ;)
18:49	glogic	for real bro
18:49	glogic	lol
18:49	dakrone	ahh, okay, well luckily almost all the options are optional
18:50	glogic	ya i kind of get the impression i can stumble a bit
18:50	glogic	,(defn [name "doc???" x] (+ x 1))
18:50	clojurebot	DENIED
18:50	glogic	oh right nvm
18:50	glogic	well anyway would that work?
18:51	glogic	you just really need a sandbox for clojurebot so you can define safely
18:51	laynor	Hi, I'm not really experienced with the jvm. I'd like to play with clojure and swt, but I don't really get where to place the library and stuff
18:51	Raynes	(defn name docstring [args] body)
18:51	glogic	then you can serialize evalution and build apps collbaoratively
18:51	glogic	althought iw as suggested to me that the best way is to start sessions via irc if your'e going to do any serious editing
18:51	Raynes	glogic: There really isn't a way to define safely. Anything defined will pollute the namespace. clojurebot is there for showing people how to do stuff they're asking about.
18:51	glogic	Raynes: oh ok i parsed that really wrong lol
18:52	dakrone	(defn add-numbers "Adds two numbers together" [a b] (+ a b))
18:52	dakrone	there's a simple example
18:52	glogic	Raynes: oh ok, i had an eval bot i did up in chicken, i used the sandbox library it was reasonable never had any major issues tehre
18:52	dakrone	the docstring is optional
18:52	dakrone	,(defn add-numbers "Adds two numbers together" [a b] (+ a b))
18:52	clojurebot	DENIED
18:52	glogic	dakrone: right
18:52	glogic	dakrone: i wasn't sure where it went was all
18:52	glogic	dakrone: so right after name
18:52	dakrone	yep
18:53	glogic	is that where docstrings go
18:53	glogic	i dont' remember
18:53	nteon	what java disassembler do people recommend?]
18:54	glogic	oh CL puts them after arguments i think
18:54	laynor	glogic: yeah
18:54	laynor	:)
18:54	glogic	laynor: seems silly
18:54	glogic	laynor: it actually makes more sense to me where it is in clojure
18:54	laynor	really?
18:54	glogic	kind of
18:54	glogic	name -> what i am
18:54	dakrone	nteon: I like jad
18:54	glogic	although splitting up the function signature has some caveats on readability
18:55	dakrone	but it looks like it hasn't been updated in quite a while, and it's been a while since I've used it
18:56	dakrone	nteon: wikipedia suggests http://java.decompiler.free.fr/
18:56	laynor	glogic: http://paste.lisp.org/display/97047 looks totally good to me, i think it wins in readability
18:57	glogic	laynor: ya
18:57	glogic	laynor: you know compared to the othr way
18:57	glogic	laynor: i think yo'ue right
18:57	laynor	I guess clojure opted for documentation after the name because of overloads
18:57	nteon	dakrone: thanks!
18:58	glogic	laynor: having the argumentsa fter is a little wierd now that you showed methat
18:58	glogic	,(doc defn)
18:58	clojurebot	"([name doc-string? attr-map? [params] body] [name doc-string? attr-map? ([params] body) + attr-map?]); Same as (def name (fn [params* ] exprs)) or (def name (fn ([params ] exprs*)+)) with any doc-string or attrs added to the var metadata"
18:58	glogic	hrrm
18:59	laynor	for me it's also strange how in some clojure code they split the line after the function name
18:59	glogic	are arguments always []
18:59	laynor	in clojure? i think so
18:59	laynor	but I'm no clojure expert
19:00	laynor	i downloaded it yesterday
19:00	laynor	ahah
19:00	glogic	laynor: ya me too
19:00	glogic	laynor: lol
19:00	laynor	I'd like to use swt, but i really don't get how to load the library
19:00	glogic	is the jvm somehow less dynamic with jruby?
19:00	laynor	i always avoided the jvm like the plague
19:00	laynor	oh
19:01	laynor	no idea
19:01	laynor	:)
19:01	glogic	i'm just readint eh topic
19:01	laynor	^^
19:07	laynor	-_-'
19:08	laynor	anyone that can help me loading swt ? ^^
19:31	technomancy	wouldn't it be cool if calling a vector with two arguments called subvec?
19:31	technomancy	also: wouldn't it be cool if calling a vector with a negative number counted from the end?
19:32	technomancy	also: it would be great to have serializeable continuations.
19:32	technomancy	that is all.
19:36	bsteuber	laynor: what's your exact problem?
19:46	laynor	bsteuber: I got it now :) But i got another problem...
19:46	bsteuber	ic
19:46	laynor	when i use java from the command line it's by default the 64 bit server machine
19:47	laynor	and I can load the 64 bit swt library correctly
19:47	laynor	but emacs for somewhat reason runs clojure with a 32 bit jwm
19:47	laynor	jvm
19:48	laynor	so, basically, I can't experiment with swt from the slime repl :/
19:48	laynor	and i can't run code from emacs
19:49	laynor	any idea how to solve this?
19:50	laynor	uhm, a clojure emacs clone would be nice :O
19:51	technomancy	laynor: just wait a while. Emacs now has threads, so as soon as clojure-in-clojure is done we can begin porting clojure to the Emacs VM.
19:51	phren0logy	laynor: why not start your repl then connect to it instead of starting it in emacs?
19:52	_mst	laynor: perhaps (add-to-list 'swank-clojure-extra-vm-args "-d64") ?
19:54	laynor	_mst: Unrecognized option: -d64
19:54	laynor	:(
19:55	_mst	ah, sorry. Turns out that only works on solaris :P
19:55	laynor	lol
19:55	laynor	uhm
19:56	_mst	ah actually no, it works on an intel box here too
19:56	laynor	java -version?
19:57	_mst	java version "1.6.0_02"
19:58	_mst	but it works on java 1.5.0_12 too...
19:58	laynor	what about the server vm? mine says Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 14.3-b01, mixed mode)
19:58	_mst	Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 1.6.0_02-b05, mixed mode)
19:58	laynor	no idea
19:58	laynor	lol
19:58	_mst	... it's not a path difference between emacs and your shell is it?
19:58	_mst	like emacs picking a different java implementation or something?
19:58	laynor	no :)
19:59	laynor	i ran emacs from cmd to be sure
19:59	laynor	also, that doesn't explain why -d64 doesn't work
19:59	laynor	uhm
20:01	laynor	oh
20:02	laynor	if i wanted to run it manually, should i do something like java -d64 -jar clojure.jar?
20:02	_mst	yep, that should work
20:02	laynor	it doesn't work for me
20:02	laynor	java doesn't recognize the -d64 option
20:04	laynor	could it be it depends on emacs being 32 bits, and being unable to run 64 bit processes? (no idea if it makes sense at all)
20:05	_mst	hm, mind you, your version string suggests that it's 64-bit anyway...
20:05	laynor	uhm
20:05	_mst	from emacs you could try M-x eshell then run 'java -version' from there--see if it matches what you get from the shell
20:06	laynor	wait, i try to Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 16.0-b13, mixed mode, sharing) :O
20:06	laynor	s/wait, i try to//
20:06	_mst	hm, how about: java -server -version
20:07	laynor	Error: no `server' JVM at `C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre6\bin\server\jvm.dll'.
20:07	laynor	lol
20:09	_mst	hm, yick. I must admit I'm fairly ignorant of java on windows :)
20:10	laynor	you know more than me anyway ^^ I tried to avoid the jvm as long as I could
20:10	laynor	but clojure is tasty
20:12	laynor	I'm looking forward to clojureclr
20:12	laynor	what's the status?
20:21	licoresse	looking forward to a clojureobj-c, or whatever the name should be
20:23	lancepantz	licoresse: the book? did it get released?
20:23	licoresse	lancepantz: no, only the MEAP early bird
20:24	licoresse	it's well written, I like it
20:24	lancepantz	ah, yeah i had the first few chapters on there
20:42	defn	http://lbrandy.com/blog/2010/03/never-trust-a-programmer-who-says-he-knows-c/
20:42	defn	heh
20:43	defn	licoresse: have they added some more chapters yet?
20:43	defn	once i heard they were going to rearrange things i decided to hold off for awhile
20:43	licoresse	not yet, but saw a tweet that it could happen any day now
20:44	defn	yes me too -- hope it happens soon
20:44	licoresse	yes
20:47	wooby	hm, having some issues with this macro: http://gist.github.com/348620
20:47	licoresse	def: haha; “C++ is a language strongly optimized for liars and people who go by guesswork and ignorance.”
20:47	wooby	experimenting with auto-gensym for the first time, and the second iota# isn't the same name as the first
20:48	clojurebot	multimethods is what separates the boys from the men.
20:48	wooby	thanks in advance for any tips
20:48	licoresse	isn't the ...# gensym shortcut?
20:49	wooby	indeed
20:50	licoresse	and this is in a macro
20:51	wooby	right
20:51	joshua-choi	...Why did clojurebot just talk?
20:52	licoresse	gensym creates a symbol, whatever# refers to it
20:53	licoresse	where is your gensym wooby
20:53	wooby	it's in the let
20:54	wooby	it gets referred to again in the line starting with ~@
20:54	wooby	unfortunately the second time it creates a new sym, when i would like it to expand to the first one
20:57	technomancy	joshua-choi: he's practicing for an upcoming turing test
20:57	licoresse	just refer to it by deleting the #
20:58	pschorf	I am having an issue installing swank-clojure via ELPA
21:00	pschorf	Whenever i attempt to install the package, I receive the following error: Error: Cannot open load file: slime
21:01	dnolen	hugod: technomancy: I tried the compile-file branch and things seem OK with ELPA slime. One thing I notice that is weird tho is that lein-swank no longer starts on 4005, but on a random port.
21:01	technomancy	pschorf: shouldn't be a problem; proceed as per the readme
21:03	pschorf	technomancy: when i run M-x slime, i get the following http://pastebin.com/KKeSY1MW
21:03	technomancy	pschorf: maybe try rm -rf ~/.swank-clojure and M-x slime again?
21:04	technomancy	pschorf: also try some of the other ways of launching from the swank readme; lein swank or M-x swank-clojure-project
21:04	technomancy	standalone repls are not used very often
21:07	pschorf	technomancy: no luck with the rm -rf... I was actually hoping for a standalone REPL to toy around with clojure a bit: I don't have any need to set up projects right now
21:17	pschorf	technomancy: it appears I had a pre-existing .clojure directory, removing that fixed the problem
21:17	pschorf	technomancy: thanks for the help
21:20	hugod	dnolen: Thanks for the testing. I think that has been that way for a while with the port
21:21	dnolen	hugod: so that's intentional?
21:23	hugod	I believe so, though technomancy would know better than I why it's that way - I guess to provent port collisions if you're already running other swank processes
21:23	dnolen	hmm. ok. hugod: so how does the new SLDB stuff work? I'm trying that out.
21:30	hugod	dnolen: there's a (swank.core/break) that should put you in sldb with locals available for inspection/available at the repl
21:35	dnolen	hugod: wow, that works! and you can even put in multiple breaks and continue :D
21:38	hugod	dnolen: glad you like it. You should also get nested exceptions all displayed in the same sldb buffer
21:39	dnolen	hugod: what do you mean by nested exceptions?
21:40	hugod	dnolen: exceptions that are caught and rethrown as a different exception
21:48	licoresse	dnolen: where?
21:48	licoresse	how do you use it?
21:51	dnolen	licoresse: one sec
21:55	hugod	dnolen: compile-file is now merged
21:55	hugod	still looking for volunteers to test or review the other swank-clojure branches...
21:59	dnolen	hugod: nice, any other branch you really want to see tested?
22:00	dnolen	licoresse: basically you need to "lien install" the master branch of swank-clojure and use this instead in your project depedency list.
22:00	laynor	yay!
22:00	dnolen	licoresse: then you can effectively put (swank.core/break) to breakpoint anywhere in your code.
22:00	laynor	i got emacs to start the 64bit jvm :)
22:01	hugod	dnolen: it's in clojars 1.2-SNAPSHOT too
22:01	laynor	all working now, thank you all, good night
22:01	laynor	:)
22:01	dnolen	hugod: 1.2-SNAPSHOT of lein-swank? nice!
22:01	dnolen	even better
22:02	hugod	dnolen: of swank-clojure - which I believe is used by lein-swank 1.2-SNAPSHOT
22:03	hugod	dnolen: the exception-location branch gets slime highlighting of compile errors to work
22:04	hugod	autodoc fixes for slime-autodoc in slime head - this one needs particular testing with elpa
22:04	licoresse	[null] An error has occurred while processing the Maven artifact tasks. WTF?
22:05	dnolen	hugod: I'm assuming if I test the branch I should create the jar from source and not pull from Clojars, right?
22:06	hugod	hyperdoc gets you links to the clojure api web page (C-c C-d h)
22:06	hugod	dnolen: yes
22:09	dnolen	licoresse: you need to add dev dependency [leiningen/lein-swank "1.2.0-SNAPSHOT"], probably need to use the 1.2.0 master snapshots for clojure and clojure.contrib as well.
22:09	licoresse	dnolen: ah, ok, thanks
22:12	hugod	dnolen: swank-clojure doesn't require clojure 1.2
22:13	dnolen	hugod: yeah I just noticed that.
22:13	dnolen	I thought env stuff was 1.2.0
22:14	hugod	ahh yes, you only get that with 1.2 - what was I thinking - but it still runs with 1.1
22:21	arohner	I think I remember someone saying you have to specify the character encoding for swank or it gets fussy. Can someone point me to instructions?
22:22	dnolen	arohner: raek knew what to do, somebody needs to write this up somewhere.
22:22	dnolen	hugod: Ok I see that I'm getting the option to jump to the exception location but the line number is wrong.
22:22	dnolen	for me it says line 1, when it's line 31
22:23	arohner	right now, if I print say, an html page over swank, slime fails to parse the output from clojure, and then slime gives me exceptions on every action after that until I disconnect and reconnect
22:24	dnolen	arohner: yes it's very broken. you can't even input a unicode character, it will hang the REPL.
22:25	hugod	dnolen: so the stack trace in the sldb buffer gives a line number of 1 and it jumps to line 31?
22:25	dnolen	hugod: no line number 1 and jumps to 1. but the error is actually on line 31
22:26	dnolen	hugod: btw, these are some amazing changes. thank you.
22:28	dnolen	hugod: more detailed info.
22:29	hugod	dnolen: thanks for the appreciation
22:29	dnolen	if I have an undefined symbol, it jumps to the right place, however if I call a function with the wrong number of arguments I get line number at 1
22:30	shales	I'm trying out (swank.core/break) too, with [leiningen/lein-swank "1.2.0-SNAPSHOT"] from clojars. It's working when I directly call the function containing the break from the slime repl, but I get an exception if break is called on the AWT thread in response to clicking a JButton. Is this expected?
22:31	shales	java.lang.IllegalStateException: Var swank.core.connection/current-connection is unbound.
22:31	shales	at clojure.lang.Var.deref(Var.java:142)
22:31	shales	at clojure.lang.Var.get(Var.java:133)
22:31	shales	at swank.core$send_to_emacs__334.invoke(core.clj:77)
22:31	shales	at swank.core$sldb_loop__403.invoke(core.clj:204)
22:31	shales	at swank.core$invoke_debugger__407.invoke(core.clj:215)
22:32	hugod	shales: thanks for the report - I hadn't tried it from AWT
22:32	shales	No prob
22:33	shales	Oh, and hi Hugo. This is Geoff from bonjure =)
22:33	hugod	Hi Geoff!
22:34	shales	I now see what you meant about how much better debugging in emacs could be
22:35	hugod	Still has a way to go
22:36	hugod	dnolen: I'll try and repro in a while
22:36	shales	ya, but shows plenty of promise
22:36	dnolen	hugod: cool I'll check out the other branches later.
22:42	arohner	how am I supposed to grab http://github.com/stuartsierra/lazytest via lein?
22:42	arohner	I get [WARNING] repository metadata for: 'snapshot org.clojure:clojure:1.2.0-master-SNAPSHOT' could not be retrieved from repository: stuart sierra snapshots due to an error: Unsupported Protocol: 'ftp': Cannot find wagon which supports the requested protocol: ftp
22:49	arohner	dnolen: this fixed my slime character encoding issues:
22:49	arohner	(setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix)
22:49	arohner	my emacs and JVM are already set on utf-8
22:53	dnolen	arohner: hmm, I'm still getting ? when I try to print é
22:53	dnolen	arohner: how did you set your JVM? -Dfile.encoding=UTF8
22:53	dnolen	?
22:54	arohner	I was able to print 'é in my slime repl
22:54	wooby	anyone a gensym guru? stuck on this macro, thanks in advance for help: http://gist.github.com/348703
22:54	arohner	dnolen: yeah, -Dfile.encoding=UTF-8
22:55	arohner	dnolen: can you print it in the console?
22:56	dnolen	arohner: I'm giving up on the utf stuff, it looks like lein-swank does the wise thing and select the default encoding for the OS. that seems to work much better.
22:56	dnolen	lein-swank 1.2.0 that is.
22:56	arohner	wooby: I would write that as `(let [~'iota (atom -1)] ~@body)
22:57	arohner	wooby: ~'iota means insert the literal as-is, without ns-resolving the var
22:58	wooby	arohner, the effect i'm going for is (with-iota (let [a iota b iota] ;; a=1, b=2))
23:00	arohner	wooby: you want iota to increment after every time it's evaluated?
23:00	wooby	arohner, right
23:00	wooby	and i'm stumped on this gensym business :)
23:00	wooby	i can syntax quote iota# a second time but then it expands to a different symbol :\
23:01	arohner	foo# expands to the same symbol inside the same `
23:01	arohner	I'm not quite sure why that's breaking for you now
23:02	arohner	but if you want users to be able to refer to iota, instead of iota#, use ~'iota
23:03	wooby	arohner, thanks
23:45	sramsay	Dear clojurians: I am so confused by the functional universe.
23:45	sramsay	To wit: I have a list of number and a list of structs.
23:46	sramsay	Want to make successive numbers in the list keys to the corresponding structs in the hash.
23:47	sramsay	I know how to do this with loops. How to do it with clever sequence functions?
23:48	wooby	sramsay, is your code somewhere? it sounds like you're looking for zipmap
23:48	wooby	,(zipmap [:a :b :c] [1 2 3])
23:48	clojurebot	{:c 3, :b 2, :a 1}
23:48	sramsay	No! Really?
23:48	sramsay	(looking in docs)
23:49	sramsay	Unbelievable. That's it. Thanks.
23:50	sramsay	namaste, wooby
23:50	wooby	no problem, have fun
23:51	sramsay	I'm sitting here thinking, "No functional programmer could possibly do it as stupidly and convolutedly as I'm doing it."
23:51	sramsay	And indeed . . . ;)