#clojure – 2010-02-18

2010-02-18

00:06	chouser	lancepantz: your probably can just say data instead of (into {} date)
00:07	lancepantz	i'll give it a shot
00:07	chouser	if data is a seq of k/v pairs, like '((k1 v1) (k2 v2) ...) then that inner into is not needed
00:27	TheBusby	hmm, any idea clojure might say that a method doesn't exist in java interop when it should?
00:27	TheBusby	specifically,
00:27	TheBusby	specifically, $ cd projects/robot/
00:27	TheBusby	$ ls
00:27	TheBusby	findbug robot.clj
00:27	TheBusby	er, sorry
00:27	TheBusby	I mean, specifically, "No matching method found: getPixels for class sun.awt.image.ByteInterleavedRaster"
00:30	chouser	that may mean the arguments you're trying to pass in are of the wrong type
00:30	TheBusby	ahh, found it, an arity issue
00:31	TheBusby	too many things called getPixels inheriting from one another...
01:12	slyphon	if i have a map, is it possible to call struct-map with the k/v pairs in that map as arguments?
01:13	slyphon	without using a macro?
01:31	dnolen	slyphon: (apply struct-map foo (flatten (vec {:bar 1 :baz 2})))
01:32	dnolen	flatten is from clojure.contrib.seq-utils
01:32	slyphon	ahhh
01:32	slyphon	i was looking for that
01:35	slyphon	i wound up doing ( let [m {:foo 1 :bar 2}] (apply struct-map blah (interleave (keys m) (vals m)))
01:36	nteon	hi folks
01:37	nteon	I was hoping someone could tell me why line 25 works, but 26 throws an exception in this: http://fpaste.org/w62B/
01:48	hiredman	nteon: "an exception" surely it is a certain type of exception
01:49	hiredman	and the exception comes with a helpful message
01:49	nteon	hiredman: yes sir: http://fpaste.org/U7dA/
01:51	hiredman	there is no var var-string
01:52	hiredman	,(read-string "#'foo")
01:52	clojurebot	(var foo)
01:52	hiredman	,(read-string "#'my-var-string")
01:52	clojurebot	(var my-var-string)
01:53	hiredman	var does not eval it's arguments, it is a special form
01:53	hiredman	,(doc resolve)
01:53	clojurebot	"([sym]); same as (ns-resolve ns symbol)"
01:53	hiredman	,(let [x '+] (resolve x))
01:53	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/+
01:55	slyphon	hiredman: hey, if i have (:foo "bar" :baz "spam") how can i turn that into a map?
01:56	hiredman	,(apply hash-map '(:foo "bar" :baz "spam"))
01:56	clojurebot	{:foo "bar", :baz "spam"}
01:56	slyphon	OHHH
01:56	hiredman	,partition
01:56	clojurebot	#<core$partition__5241 clojure.core$partition__5241@1ed0577>
01:56	slyphon	ty
01:56	hiredman	,(map vec (partition 2 '(:foo "bar" :baz "spam")))
01:56	clojurebot	([:foo "bar"] [:baz "spam"])
01:56	slyphon	i'm not sure how i missed that
01:56	hiredman	,(into {} (map vec (partition 2 '(:foo "bar" :baz "spam"))))
01:56	clojurebot	{:foo "bar", :baz "spam"}
01:56	slyphon	hahahaha
01:57	hiredman	,(doc zipmap)
01:57	clojurebot	"([keys vals]); Returns a map with the keys mapped to the corresponding vals."
01:57	slyphon	yeah, i don't have the keys & vals in separate lists though
01:58	slyphon	though, wouldn't be too hard to do that
01:58	hiredman	,(let [x '(:foo "bar" :baz "spam")] (zipmap (take-nth 2 x) (take-nth 2 (rest x))))
01:58	clojurebot	{:baz "spam", :foo "bar"}
01:58	slyphon	are hash-maps ordered?
01:58	nteon	hiredman: I might partly be having a trouble with the new vocabulary. I don't understand why the initial binding aux-xml-1 can be used with var, but not var-string
01:59	hiredman	nope
01:59	slyphon	ok
02:00	slyphon	just checking
02:00	hiredman	nteon: aux-xml-1 is the name of a var
02:00	hiredman	there is a sorted map
02:00	hiredman	sorted-map
02:00	slyphon	how about structs?
02:00	hiredman	nteon: var-string is not
02:01	hiredman	slyphon: structs area slight omptimization (under certain circumstances) of maps
02:01	slyphon	i'm only asking because in the REPL it seems to display things in the order i defined the struct in
02:02	hiredman	the implementation might have some ordering, but not guaranteed
02:02	slyphon	ok, that's what i expected
02:02	slyphon	thanks
02:05	nteon	hiredman: so what is var-string, a binding? how would I get the var for a binding? (you suggested resolve before, but I can't seem to use that right)
02:05	nteon	ah, a symbol not a binding
02:07	hiredman	locals don't have vars
02:07	hiredman	vars only exist in the global scope
02:07	nteon	hiredman: so there is no way to use a local with meta?
02:08	hiredman	not a locla name
02:08	hiredman	you can attach readtime metadata to the symbol that is the name
02:09	hiredman	but it is not accessable at runtime
02:10	nteon	maybe I'm missing something, but this seems to make metadata less attractive to me (I'm probably just misusing it)
02:11	hiredman	I think you must be missing something
02:11	hiredman	what did you want with metadata?
02:12	hiredman	you cannot pass local names beyond their scope, or really pass them at all, they are not reified entities
02:12	nteon	I must be :)
02:12	hiredman	the compiler could just translate local names into numbers for an array access
02:13	hiredman	(it doesn't)
02:14	nteon	basically I want to test that I'm processing chunks of xml correctly. So my thought was to define a var as a string of xml and attach metadata with the correct values I want to be parsing out. I could just use a map instead, with :xml, :name and :equation keys
02:15	nteon	that would work just fine, I suppose I wanted to use metadata because 'it was there'.
02:15	hiredman	if you take a strict λ calculus view bound variables are subject to renaming under one of the sbstitution rules (alpha? beta?)
02:16	hiredman	fyi :user and :import can use and import more than a single thing at a time so you can collapse those seperate uses
02:17	hiredman	(:import (java.io StringReader ByteArrayInputStream))
02:17	hiredman	:use
02:17	nteon	hiredman: ah! good to know
02:18	nteon	,(doc ns)
02:18	clojurebot	"([name & references]); Sets ns to the namespace named by name (unevaluated), creating it if needed. references can be zero or more of: (:refer-clojure ...) (:require ...) (:use ...) (:import ...) (:load ...) (:gen-class) with the syntax of refer-clojure/require/use/import/load/gen-class respectively, except the arguments are unevaluated and need not be quoted. (:gen-class ...), when supplied, defaults to :name correspon
02:19	nteon	what does the :reload-all do? lein inserted that
02:19	nteon	I have an inkling, I imagine reloads it when its reevaluated in a repl session
02:21	hiredman	http://richhickey.github.com/clojure/clojure.core-api.html#clojure.core/require
02:25	nteon	hiredman: thanks. I had looked up use which wasn't as useful
02:26	hiredman	,(doc find-doc)
02:26	clojurebot	"([re-string-or-pattern]); Prints documentation for any var whose documentation or name contains a match for re-string-or-pattern"
02:26	nteon	I always forget about that one.
02:35	LauJensen	Morning team
02:36	Raynes	LauJensen: Morning teammate.
02:45	qed	Morning teamsters
02:53	Raynes	LauJensen: Teach me to speak German.
02:54	qed	Nein
02:54	LauJensen	Raynes: It takes quite some time to learn, that are almost as many small grammar rules as there are stars in the universe - using 'almost' a little lightly
02:54	qed	yeah.. a billion trillion grammar rules seems excessive
02:54	Chousuke	heh, sounds like finnish
02:54	Raynes	Heh, sounds like a crappy language. :\|
02:54	LauJensen	Plus there's the added bonus of them exchanging v for f, and adding a letter which you probably haven't seen before, but are 2 nested S's :)
02:54	Chousuke	we have grammar rules for everything because they made one for every exception :P
02:54	LauJensen	Raynes: No its great, finnish is very poor though
02:55	qed	i love finnish folk music
02:55	gregh	clearly you should learn esperanto, there's like 12 grammer rules total
02:55	LauJensen	I cant decide if dutch is good or not, because speak it implies spitting and drooling a lot, so I cant make out all the sounds
02:55	Raynes	Or we could all just learn lojban.
02:55	qed	those fake languages are a nice onanistic enterprise
02:55	Chousuke	Also consonant gradation if not fun in Finnish
02:58	Chousuke	http://www.stanford.edu/~laurik/fsmbook/exercises/FinnishConsonantGradation.html I'm glad I didn't have to learn these rules in school :/
03:02	Raynes	Hrm. How did tabs get mixed in with my spaces in my Clojure code. :o
03:02	Raynes	I thought Emacs converted tabs to spaces.
03:04	gregh	yeah, the tabs made kind of a mess
03:05	Raynes	LauJensen: Do you buy any chance know how to make Emacs convert tabs to spaces by default?
03:06	Raynes	Would save me a google search.
03:06	Raynes	gregh: Thanks for fixing it. I had no idea.
03:06	LauJensen	M-x tabify ?
03:07	LauJensen	(setq-default indent-tabs-mode nil) to use as standard I think
03:07	Raynes	It's untabify you were thinking of.
03:07	Raynes	Thanks.
03:07	Raynes	I'll try that.
03:08	LauJensen	Only happy to help out my Texan friend
03:08	Raynes	Alabamian. Texas is only fake rednecks. :D
03:08	Raynes	Texans are*
03:13	hiredman	depends which walmart you are in
03:14	TheBusby	haha
03:14	LauJensen	Raynes: I like what Putin said "There's really no point in criticising America, the results speak for themselves"
03:15	Raynes	Hah.
03:22	hiredman	of course, at that point someone raised their hand and said "sir, you could replace 'america' with the name of any other country and it would still be true" and then putin raised an eyebrow and the voice of decent vanished and support was unanimous
03:23	LauJensen	sure
03:24	hiredman	http://blogs.timeslive.co.za/minor/files/2009/08/putin-and-his-horse.jpg
03:24	LauJensen	All nations fail remarkable at many levels, but Americas slogan has always been Bigger is Better - even in failure :) We have had bubble bursts here in Europe as well, but I mean, when America goes, it goes all out
03:25	LauJensen	Anyway, we shouldnt make this a political discussion, the results speak for themselves :)
03:25	hiredman	LauJensen: bigger what?
03:27	LauJensen	failures?
03:28	hiredman	bigger failures than what?
03:29	LauJensen	I think you just triggered my bike-shed-o-meter
03:29	LauJensen	:)
03:30	hiredman	I think you like the sound of your own voice, but lack any real insight or understanding
03:31	hiredman	this is not a bikeshed
03:32	LauJensen	what defines a bikeshed then ?
03:32	hiredman	http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/mailing-list-faq/bikeshed.html
03:33	LauJensen	ah youre a BSD guy ?
03:33	hiredman	it's a term that originated in the freebsd community
03:36	LauJensen	Yes I know
03:37	LauJensen	Anyway , My comment earlier was a reference to the fact, that America is something like the slow kid in the class - Massive debt, massive spending, massive wars, etc. The current worldwide economical crisis originates from your financial market
03:39	bosie	i have been looking at the y-combinator and really don't understand what you need it for
03:40	bosie	anyone has an article with a good explanation? :)
03:41	hiredman	bosie: it's a formal way of introducing recursion into the λ calculas, it's not needed in clojure, or really any language I know of
03:42	bosie	hmm
03:44	hiredman	LauJensen: that is hopelessly naive
03:44	hiredman	lus
03:47	bosie	god i hate my internet connection lately
03:50	avarus	good mirnong
03:50	avarus	eh morning
04:00	fullets	Is there a Clojure equivalent of common lisp's #'search?
04:01	hiredman	what does search do?
04:01	fullets	Finds a sequence in a sequence
04:01	hiredman	clarify
04:01	fullets	Like (.indexOf "hello" "el"), but for any sequence
04:02	hiredman	I'd look in seq-utils
04:04	hiredman	I kind of doubt it exists
04:04	fullets	Doesn't look like it
04:05	hiredman	clojure and contrib seem to avoid O(n) (or greater) unless it can be done lazily
04:05	hiredman	I guess you could iterate rest and map partition
04:06	hiredman	but that wouldn't get you the "index" (of a non-index collection :() just the sequence which you already have
04:06	hiredman	index
04:06	hiredman	indexed
04:08	Chousuke	I suppose for (search [1 2] [5 4 1 2 3 4 5]) it might be useful to return (1 2 3 4 5)
04:12	Chousuke	,(first (filter #(= [5 6] (take 2 %)) (iterate rest [3 4 5 6 7 8])))))
04:12	clojurebot	(5 6 7 8)
04:13	Chousuke	one problem with that is that I it never ends if the common sequence is not found :P
04:14	fullets	I just found java.utils.Collections/indexOfSubList, which looks like it'll suit my purposes
04:14	hiredman	:(
04:15	hiredman	I am sure it will work, it just seems like a horrible idea
04:15	Chousuke	it might work on a vector
04:15	hiredman	I guess it would make more sense there
04:16	fullets	Works on seqs too. I never said it was a good idea - it's meant to be fast to type, not run :P
04:16	hiredman	:(
04:17	hiredman	horrible
04:31	AWizzArd	Moin moin
04:34	ulfster	moin
04:37	esj	yello
04:45	LauJensen	hey
04:45	avarus	hi LauJensen
04:53	ulfster	if anyone is interested, i just put the start of my first clojure project on github, it shall one day be an online multiplayer version of the popular board game Carcassonne, http://github.com/ulf/carc
04:54	ulfster	i am still getting started, so most of the code is probably ugly as hell ;)
04:56	avarus	who said the hell is ugly
04:58	Chousuke	ulfster: first problem: you have a single-segment namespace
05:00	avarus	org.ulfster.incredible.game would be better?
05:00	Chousuke	yes
05:00	ulfster	will fix that
05:00	avarus	ok
05:00	ulfster	thanks
05:00	Chousuke	anything but a single-segment namespace :)
05:00	ulfster	makes a lot of sense :)
05:01	hiredman	ulfster.game would be fine
05:01	Chousuke	it's not just collision-prone. Just a couple days ago there was a person here with a gen-class problem and it was fixed by doing away with a single-segment namespace :P
05:03	Chousuke	ulfster: also, camelCase is not very idiomatic naming for most things. you should use foo-bar instead
05:03	Chousuke	except for things exposed as java methods
05:06	Chousuke	furthermore, you should avoid using nested refs (it's difficult to produce a consistent snapshot of them), and instead of (ref-set r (assoc @r :foo ...)) you can do (alter r assoc :foo ...)
05:08	Chousuke	for a simple game like carcassonne, one map inside a ref should be enough mutability. You really don't need to have a separate mutable players list or anything as a part of the already mutable game state.
05:09	ulfster	so generally i should limit the mutable parts as much as possible?
05:09	Chousuke	it'll be less granular, but it'll make the coordination logic a lot simpler, since you can just write most of the game logic as pure functions.
05:09	Chousuke	yes.
05:10	Chousuke	you should only increase granularity if it becomes a bottleneck
05:11	Raynes	I use double and so on segment namespaces.
05:11	Raynes	Mostly just double and triple.
05:11	Chousuke	and in general, most of your logic functions should not care about refs at all, only the values.
05:12	Chousuke	so eg. add-player should be just a pure function creates a new game state. And then in your game loop you have some state handling procedures which call (alter game-state add
05:12	Chousuke	oops
05:12	Chousuke	(alter game-state add-player ...)
05:13	ulfster	i see
05:13	ulfster	thanks for the suggestions
05:13	Chousuke	It's basically all about isolation
05:13	ulfster	will try to incorporate that prior to extending the functionality
05:13	ulfster	thats real good practice, never did a real project in FP
05:13	Chousuke	most of the game logic is expressible as pure transformations. You should isolate those from the actual state-changing logic as much as is feasible
05:16	Chousuke	you'll benefit from pure functions in that you can just define a struct or whatever representing some "state" value in a repl and then run your functions on it and see if they produce correct output
05:16	Chousuke	and you won't need to reset the state between tests, because there actually is no state :)
05:52	esj	is it really the case that on windows elements of the classpath are seperated by ; not : ?
05:52	hiredman	yes
05:53	esj	this is upsetting leiningen...
06:00	esj	so much for my cunning plan to get around the horror of windows by simply working in cygwin
06:05	spariev	I want to load some clojure code from file, process it with clojure.walk, and then save back with modifications
06:05	spariev	I believe I can load it with (read), it's the save part that puzzles me
06:06	spariev	any hints ?
06:06	AWizzArd	,(print '(def x 100))
06:06	clojurebot	DENIED
06:06	AWizzArd	,(print '(foo x 100))
06:06	clojurebot	(foo x 100)
06:06	hiredman	you'll want pr
06:07	AWizzArd	spariev: you can just print your code, using pr or pr-str at some places maybe.
06:07	hiredman	AWizzArd: please don't use print
06:07	AWizzArd	hiredman: it's just a placeholder
06:07	hiredman	,(print "foo")
06:07	clojurebot	foo
06:07	AWizzArd	yes
06:07	hiredman	,(pr "foo")
06:07	clojurebot	"foo"
06:07	AWizzArd	that’s why pr or pr-str etc are better suited
06:07	spariev	well, it seems obvious now ) thanks guys
06:08	AWizzArd	You can use binding to bind out to a file, or you can just spit your lists out
06:09	spariev	yep, this code-as-data thing takes some time to wrap head around
06:10	AWizzArd	Btw, what are you doing with it? :)
06:10	AWizzArd	Something like GP?
06:10	spariev	nope, refactoring tool - http://groups.google.com/group/clojure-dev/browse_thread/thread/51988b3dd591c96c
06:12	AWizzArd	cool stuff
06:12	spariev	I hope I'll have "free" time for it
06:28	jperras	what's the go-to resource for a pure clojure-based priority queue?
06:33	japowl	anyone here using the leiningen native-deps plugin dnolen put on clojars?
06:36	TheBusby	,(let [ [a b] [1 2] ] a)
06:36	clojurebot	1
06:37	TheBusby	,(map (fn [ [a b] %1] a) [1 2])
06:37	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: sandbox$eval--7888$fn
06:37	TheBusby	hmm, how exactly do fn's support destructuring?
06:38	AWizzArd	jperras: if you want queues just use the ones from http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/util/concurrent/package-summary.html
06:39	AWizzArd	ulfster: please look into your priv.
06:39	triyo	TheBusby: http://clojure.org/special_forms look at let form
06:40	jperras	AWizzArd: thanks
06:41	TheBusby	triyo: destructuring is only mentioned under "let" and hence doesn't have an FN examples
06:42	TheBusby	no luck on wikibooks for examples either, which is why I brought it up here
06:44	TheBusby	I think I've just provided the example that what works for let doesn't appear to work for fn
06:44	TheBusby	doh
06:47	TheBusby	,(map (fn [[a b] %] a) '([1 2] [3 4]))
06:47	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: sandbox$eval--7898$fn
06:49	TheBusby	For reference in case someone googles, (map (fn [[a b]] a) '([1 2] [3 4]))
06:59	triyo	,(map (fn [[a b]] (str a " - " b)) '([1 2] [3 4]))
06:59	clojurebot	("1 - 2" "3 - 4")
07:00	TheBusby	I'm slowly learning that it's probably better to grep through contrib that google or read the docs...
07:02	triyo	that destructures each element (vec) in seq and then binds first vec item to a and the second to b.
07:02	TheBusby	triyo: thank you ;)
07:04	triyo	function argument binding can be a bit tricky at first as there is quite a few different ways to go about it. Lately, I've seen people create macros that closelly ralte to how python func argument binding works.
07:04	triyo	TheBusby: also have a look at http://stuartsierra.com/2010/01/15/keyword-arguments-in-clojure
07:06	triyo	though thats more about keyword argument handling
07:09	TheBusby	is there an RSS feed that tracks clojure related blog posts like emacsen?
07:10	triyo	planet clojure http://planet.clojure.in/
07:10	underdev	are the Hudson snapshots suitable for development, or is it recommended to use the stable releases? Usecase: learning clojure, not production
07:13	Raynes	underdev: They are stable, though the newer features aren't documented in tutorials yet.
07:13	Raynes	Such as deftype and defprotocol, but there is enough documentation on the assembla pages to fix you up for the most part.
07:14	underdev	Raynes: ty
07:14	Raynes	I mean, it's bleeding edge and all, but nobody really ever has problems with the snapshots.
07:14	underdev	okay, great. exactly what i wanted to know :)
07:21	AWizzArd	Hi rhickey. Did you have another wake-me-up-moment this night? ;)
07:23	rhickey	AWizzArd: I think I've divulged enough about my sleeping pattern this week
07:23	AWizzArd	yeah
07:28	AWizzArd	About the Cells example v1: why would one use a Cell for conjing those numbers onto the vector, vs using a transient?
07:28	rhickey	AWizzArd: direct transients are going away
07:29	AWizzArd	And why would one use a locked-cell, as in example v2?
07:29	rhickey	the data structures will remain but the sharing policy has moved into the cell
07:29	rhickey	AWizzArd: you would never as in the example, since it is a local, but anytime you might use the cell in multiple threads
07:30	AWizzArd	So, when I have n threads that want to conj numbers onto the celled vector, then a locked-cell would be the right container.
07:31	AWizzArd	But in which situation would I not want to use an atom or agent or ref?
07:31	rhickey	or a ref, atom or agent, depending on the other factors
07:31	rhickey	AWizzArd: we discussed this yesterday a lot
07:32	AWizzArd	I think it still left some people a bit puzzled.
07:32	rhickey	locked cells allow for coordination, like refs, and serialized activity, like agents, but are synchronous, like atoms
07:33	rhickey	plus, they support transience
07:33	rhickey	so, whenever you want that set of features, use a cell
07:33	AWizzArd	okay, so a locked cell offers features of all those other reference types
07:41	AWizzArd	Which of those features go away for non-locked cells?
07:47	AWizzArd	rhickey: let's say I have some useful program P, which I control through a pipe. P takes only one input at a time, so it needs serialized input (agents so far). But then I need to know its return value, as soon P outputs them. Here I have a problem with agents: The thread that sent it away won't capture Exceptions, and I can not read the guaranteed correct agent value.
07:48	AWizzArd	I could (await my-agent) and then deref it. But between awaiting and dereferencing it some other thread could have sent another job to my-agent and now I get that value.
07:48	AWizzArd	Can Cells help here?
07:50	AWizzArd	In principle I would like to have: (let [x (send my-agent foo 1 2 3)] ...) with x having the right value, but blocking as long the agent is busy.
07:50	AWizzArd	okay, maybe this is more like a queue...
07:53	AWizzArd	But could Cells maybe do that? When there is a global locked-cell C and we (let [x (in-cells [C] (>> conj! C (call binary here)) @C)] ...) then this may give the right result.
07:54	AWizzArd	Only that instead conj! we would maybe replace the current value.
07:54	AWizzArd	Instead of pass, is there some kind of set! operator?
08:06	AWizzArd	Seems not many people are sure if Cells can do that...
08:13	rhickey	AWizzArd: you could always pass #(do % 42)
08:14	rhickey	but yes, cells are synchronous, and serialized
08:14	rhickey	simultaneous calls to the same cells block
08:17	AWizzArd	Good. And if my cell fn throws an exception, then the thread doing the in-cells call can catch it, yes?
08:17	rhickey	yes
08:30	AWizzArd	rhickey: okay good, thanks, this makes things more plausible, and I have ideas to try it out in my production code.
08:46	_fogus_	Is there a metadata best-practices somewhere? (from a struct impl perspective)
08:48	Raynes	_fogus_: Yep, his name is rhickey and he's sitting just down the row from me. ;p
08:50	_fogus_	Raynes: Understood.
08:56	bosie	anyone in here participating in the google ai challenge
08:56	bosie	http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/contest/index.php
08:59	Raynes	Nope. Too intimidating. :p
09:01	bosie	Raynes: huh?
09:01	bosie	sign up with a fake name and fake email ;)
09:01	Raynes	:p
09:07	grzm	'lo. I'd like to include a java file in my clojure project. I'm using leiningen for management, emacs/slime/swank-clojure for development. swank-clojure-project works: when I call (System/getProperty "java.class.path") in the slime repl, I get the expected classpath
09:08	grzm	I added the .java file to src. I used the lein-javac plugin to compile the .java file, and I see the corresponding .class file in classes.
09:09	grzm	However, when I attempt to call a (static) method on the class defined in the .java/.class file, I get a "No such namespace: <class>" error in the repl
09:09	grzm	How can I further debug this? What might I be doing wrong?
09:16	triyo	grzm: I didn't see all your messages. You just wish to call static method on class?
09:17	triyo	,(map #(Character/isDigit %) "12a34")
09:17	clojurebot	(true true false true true)
09:17	grzm	triyo: yup, which I'm trying to do with (Class/staticMethod arg)
09:17	grzm	triyo: what you missed: I'd like to include a java file in my clojure project. I'm using leiningen for management, emacs/slime/swank-clojure for development. swank-clojure-project works: when I call (System/getProperty "java.class.path") in the slime repl, I get the expected classpath
09:17	grzm	I added the .java file to src. I used the lein-javac plugin to compile the .java file, and I see the corresponding .class file in classes.
09:18	triyo	you using "lein repl" to test? Just want to make sure your class is on classpath
09:19	triyo	oops sorry missed above
09:20	triyo	whats your :import look like?
09:21	grzm	triyo: :) that's probably it. I haven't one. let's give that a shot
09:21	chouser	if you use the full name of the class, you don't need an import.
09:22	triyo	hehe, you need to import Java classes first unless you use fully qualified names
09:22	jcromartie	Apparently I have been spoiled by the plain REPL's exceptions when loading code...
09:22	Raynes	Haha.
09:23	jcromartie	if I do (use 'foo) in my REPL, I get a simple one-line message that tells me where the problem is
09:23	jcromartie	in Slime the original source file isn't even listed
09:23	jcromartie	at least not in the first 87 lines
09:23	jcromartie	OK, nowhere
09:23	jcromartie	the REPL says java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: entity-id in this context (messages.clj:38)
09:24	jcromartie	am I doing something wrong?
09:25	grzm	chouser: triyo: I was using the full class name (at least as it's defined in the .java file). How might the class name get transformed into something else?
09:26	grzm	well, using (ns user (:import ClassName)) worked. Why didn't (ClassName/staticMethod args) prior to import?
09:26	grzm	triyo: thanks for the pointer, btw
09:27	chouser	is ClassName in the default (unnamed) Java package?
09:28	grzm	chouser: I don't know, which makes me suspect not
09:28	chouser	grzm: what's the full name of the class, package and all?
09:28	triyo	grzm: in your java class did you define "package .../"
09:28	jcromartie	Is there some way to get the same REPL error messages in Slime?
09:29	grzm	chouser: triyo: the class is one I downloaded: http://people.apache.org/~yonik/code/hash/Hash.java
09:29	grzm	I haven't modified that file at all
09:30	arkrost	Hi! I'm looking through clojure source, but I can't find implementation of in-ns function. Tell me please in what file I shold searching.
09:30	chouser	ok, that's your problem. I'm actually surprised you got it working at all.
09:30	triyo	no package so default package used
09:30	chouser	grzm: Java discourages and Clojure doesn't really support classes in the default package.
09:30	stuartsierra	arkrost: in-ns is a special form, it's handled by the compiler
09:33	grzm	chouser: so, I should maybe make src/util/Hash.java, and define the package to be util
09:33	Raynes	jcromartie: Maybe your question should be asked on the swank-clojure ML? I'm interested in the answer as well. technomancy\|away is... away, and he's your best bet. :p
09:34	jcromartie	Raynes: yeah maybe... it's very curious that the plain old REPL can give me a one-line answer as to where the error is coming from, but swank can't
09:34	chouser	grzm: yes, that would clean things up for you.
09:34	Raynes	jcromartie: What's even more curious is the fact that people seem to ignore that fact. I think we're missing something.
09:34	jcromartie	yeah
09:34	jcromartie	maybe
09:35	jcromartie	it's inexcusably bad, if it were the default state of swank/slime then nobody would be able to use it
09:35	jcromartie	so I can only assume it's not the way it usually works
09:35	jcromartie	but then again nobody is saying "it works for me!"
09:35	grzm	chouser: thanks :) let's see how I can screw this up :)
09:35	chouser	people do complain about clojure errors all the time. I hope it's not slime's fault all along.
09:36	jcromartie	chouser: well like I said, the plain old REPL in my terminal gives me a one-line error with the source file and line, Slime doesn't list the orginating file or line at all
09:36	chouser	arkrost: http://github.com/richhickey/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/RT.java#LID212
09:36	Raynes	It's slimes fault when the Clojure REPL actually answers correctly.
09:37	chouser	right, unless most people using slime have it configured differently.'
09:37	Raynes	Indeed, which is my point.
09:37	Raynes	Though, I'm pretty sure my install is standard.
09:38	jcromartie	on another tangent: how do you guys organize your tests?
09:41	jcromartie	yeah my swank setup is straight from ELPA
09:41	jcromartie	recent, too
09:41	grzm	chouser: that seems to work. Thanks!
09:41	grzm	triyo: thanks for your help as well
09:44	jcromartie	is there a way to try to coerce a map into a struct?
09:44	Raynes	You can ask very nicely,.
09:45	chouser	into
09:45	chouser	into is how you convert from just about anything to any of clojure's persistent structures.
09:47	jcromartie	ah
09:47	AWizzArd	you will have to provide fake args
09:48	AWizzArd	(defstruct foo :a :b :c) and then (into (struct foo nil nil nil) {:a 1, :b 2, :c 3})
09:48	jcromartie	struct-map works
09:48	jcromartie	(into (struct-map s) some-map)
09:48	AWizzArd	yes great
09:48	AWizzArd	I already forgot about struct-map
09:49	jcromartie	did you guys see this presentation? http://www.slideshare.net/smartrevolution/how-a-clojure-pet-project-turned-into-a-fullblown-cloudcomputing-webapp
09:49	jcromartie	it's good
09:51	triyo	_fogus_: only one part, Clojure on JVM
09:56	jcromartie	triyo: hah hah
09:59	triyo	jcromartie: well I'm a bit bias; what I meant to have said was: the JVM.
09:59	triyo	:)
10:04	triyo	~JVM
10:04	clojurebot	No entiendo
10:05	triyo	~jvm
10:05	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
10:06	triyo	hmm "Titim gan éirí ort." -> "May you fall without rising." in Gaelic
10:06	powr-toc	I'm using promise/deliver to make a JFrame dialog box block on the users answer (the deliver happens in the actionListener). It seems like a really nice pattern... would anyone argue otherwise?
10:11	AWizzArd	powr-toc: sounds good
10:11	AWizzArd	oh btw..
10:11	AWizzArd	rhickey: is it planned that there will be a way to have something like await-for for Cells?
10:12	jcromartie	I'm trying to do (defn find ...) in this namespace, and I've used (:refer-clojure :exclude [find])
10:13	chouser	AWizzArd: cells are synchronous. you don't get control back until the operation is done
10:13	jcromartie	but requiring another namespace that uses that namespace results in an error about clojure.core/fin
10:13	jcromartie	find
10:13	AWizzArd	,(/ (* 12000 36000000) 1024 1024 1024)
10:13	clojurebot	52734375/131072
10:13	AWizzArd	,(double (/ (* 12000 36000000) 1024 1024 1024))
10:13	clojurebot	402.3313522338867
10:14	jcromartie	my test namespace is like so: (ns foo.test.bar (:use clojure.test [foo.bar :as bar]))
10:14	jcromartie	and requiring that test namespace fails when loading the foo.bar namespace
10:14	jcromartie	which can be loaded by itself just fine
10:14	AWizzArd	chouser: I see
10:15	jcromartie	never mind, I should be requiring instead of using
10:15	jcromartie	(use '[foo :as bar]) doesn't really work, does it?
10:15	AWizzArd	yes, use is very comfortable, but sooner or later a require pays off
10:16	jcromartie	I didn't realize it was just ignoring the :as
10:16	AWizzArd	jcromartie: in your (ns ...) you can have: (:require [clojure.contrib [def :as d] [pprint :as p]])
10:16	chouser	jcromartie: no, it works. you get the alias and all the vars referred
10:17	jcromartie	oh, nice :)
10:17	arohner	jcromartie: I've noticed the same behavior. Slime doesn't print the line number where the error occurred
10:17	chouser	I frequently do (:use '[foo :as bar :only []]) to get just the ns alias
10:17	arohner	it is a slime problem
10:17	AWizzArd	funny
10:18	AWizzArd	chouser: don’t :)
10:18	AWizzArd	You even can program it in Lisp
10:18	jcromartie	arohner: sounds like it might be a major Clojure adoption obstacle
10:18	zaphyr	elisp can only vaguely be described as a lisp ;)
10:18	chouser	not a good lisp. And I don't want my clojure error message to be worse.
10:18	chouser	messages
10:18	AWizzArd	chouser: It's a nice lisp for this specific use.
10:21	_fogus_	chouser: I've been using Emacs for a couple years... I expect to be a novice any day now.
10:21	triyo	_fogus_: doesn't it take ten to reach that level?
10:22	_fogus_	triyo: NOOOOO!
10:22	_fogus_	I thought I was so close
10:24	triyo	_focus_: I know what you mean. Here is a quote by an emacs expert: "Well, the short answer is, you should learn Emacs by using it for about a decade.", easy as that
10:24	chouser	I wonder if I can write an elisp macro to create lexical variables.
10:24	cemerick	chouser: isn't that what (:require [foo :as blah]) is for?
10:25	chouser	cemerick: yes, but if you use require and then later decide there's one function you'd like to use without the alias, you're stuck.
10:25	cemerick	ah
10:25	cemerick	that seems like a bad idea anyway
10:25	cemerick	implies to the reader that fn a and fn b from the same ns are from different ns'
10:25	triyo	heheh _focus_.... I mean _fogus_
10:26	chouser	cemerick: on one project I was kept shuffling libs back and forth between the :use and :require blocks as I went along before deciding that was stupid and started doing :use :only [] everywhere.
10:27	_fogus_	chouser: Yegge tried that same thing
10:27	chouser	oh dear. nevermind then...
10:27	chouser	:-)
10:28	AWizzArd	oh, you were serious about that
10:28	Hali_303	hi
10:29	AWizzArd	Hello Hali_303
10:31	_fogus_	,(let [x 1] (let [x-inner 2] (let [x-yet-another-inner 3] [x x-inner x-yet-another-inner])))
10:31	clojurebot	[1 2 3]
10:31	_fogus_	^^^ lexical scope in elisp
10:31	_fogus_	;-)
10:32	chouser	hm. I guess the problem isn't so much being able to use lexical scope as it is trying to understand elisp code of others that frequently uses dynamic scope.
10:35	Hali_303	what's an easy way to persistently store clojure data structures?
10:35	Hali_303	for example, how do I store a list of maps? do you use an RDBMS or object database for that?
10:35	AWizzArd	A simple one is to just print them into a file which you can then later (read).
10:36	Hali_303	hm. and what if I have a Date in a map that is not String serializable?
10:36	AWizzArd	You can define printers on any data type for serialization.
10:36	AWizzArd	This is okay if we are talking about a few MB of data.
10:37	Hali_303	AWizzArd: how do I do that exactly?
10:38	AWizzArd	Let's say you have a map {:a 1, :b 2}
10:38	cemerick	_fogus_: emacs and linux? World of pain, that is. ;-)
10:38	AWizzArd	,(pr {:a 1, :b 2})
10:38	clojurebot	{:a 1, :b 2}
10:38	triyo	Hali_303: mongoDB with congomongo clojure lib is pretty good option. All really boils down to your requirements. There are newmerious ways, NoSQL, RDBMS, file+serialization.
10:38	AWizzArd	or you can use pr-str and spit that output into a file.
10:39	AWizzArd	,(pr-str {:a 1, :b 2})
10:39	clojurebot	"{:a 1, :b 2}"
10:39	AWizzArd	For simple things this is an okay approach. For a full blown app you probably want to use a “real database”.
10:41	_fogus_	cemerick: After dealing with MS Word, I no longer feel pain like a nomal human.
10:41	cemerick	clearly
10:42	cemerick	_fogus_: actually, this mostly means that you'll never finish the book -- 45 minutes / hour will be taken up with babysitting synaptic and fixing .emacs ;-)
10:43	Raynes	cemerick: Netbeans is for skiddies. :p
10:45	cemerick	skiddies?
10:46	_fogus_	cemerick: I require approval of Congress to change my .emacs
10:48	mattrepl	_fogus_: you're just furthering the Washingtonian stereotype. =)
10:52	cemerick	Raynes: oh, I got it now (after looking it up). Try to keep stuff like that to yourself.
10:52	_fogus_	mattrepl: Not true... typical Washingtonians use Vi. ;)
10:55	mattrepl	_fogus_: heh, that's believable
10:57	rsynnott	_fogus_: but just a simple majority or one of those wacky supermajorities? :)
11:01	AWizzArd	rhickey: about your Cells gist: is it true that because you extended Strings in lines 149-151 with the Editable Protocol Cell values become inside cell operations such as >> automatically a StringBuilder? And that's why you type hint c in examples s1 - s4 as #^StringBuilder?
11:02	rhickey	AWizzArd: yes
11:02	AWizzArd	oh great, then I think I understand 95% of that
11:03	AWizzArd	The Editable Protocol is for "making things transient", while the Transient P. is for reading such objects.
11:03	rhickey	each cell has 2 parts - a transient part and a value part. Those protocols are used to get one from the other
11:03	AWizzArd	Excellent. Damn, this seems to be the store for my DB.
11:04	AWizzArd	Great great, I will switch from atom + lock + in-lock-atom to locked-cells
11:04	AWizzArd	Only missing piece is the Sentry protocol.
11:06	chouser	yeah, that's kinda goofy. Locks and Threads are Sentrys
11:07	rhickey	how is that goofy?
11:08	chouser	isn't there a possibility that one might want to provide a cell with a different policy, but still using a ReentrantLock?
11:08	chouser	but even if not, it feels odd.
11:09	chouser	I would expect a sentry to have a lock or a thread, not be one.
11:09	rhickey	chouser: you can always make an object that holds one of those, at the cost of creating another object
11:10	chouser	hm, yeah I see.
11:10	chouser	you don't think if feels at all odd though?
11:10	chouser	it
11:10	rhickey	think of it this way - image if sentry was an interface in the JVM and Threads and Locks implemented it. If you wanted different behavior you would have to wrap an instance
11:11	rhickey	Protocols just let you inject that interface, but admittedly, only once
11:11	AWizzArd	When would I want to extend a class with the Sentry P.?
11:11	rhickey	AWizzArd: you should consider Sentry and implementation detail for now
11:11	rhickey	an
11:11	AWizzArd	ok fine
11:12	AWizzArd	So, the idea about POJOs was to extend on Transient, and have this constructing new instances of the POJO, yes?
11:13	rhickey	AWizzArd: there will also be a way to specify to/from transient fns per cell
11:13	AWizzArd	Very very interesting, I think I got it by now and can start to use them. This will beautify my ugly hacks and make the system easier as well.
11:16	rhickey	chouser: actually, I think it's awesome to be able to build a protocol on an existing class, and leverage the fact (in the case of Thread) that an instance is already around. Single-threaded cells need to be extremely cheap. Furthermore, the potential exists to add compiler support to single-threaded cells that would detect that they don't escape and get rid of the cell entirely
11:18	rhickey	but in any case people should consider the sentries as opaque. The only critical feature is that given one, you can create another cell with the same policy
11:22	AWizzArd	I will just ignore that Protocol for now and see later if I care about it.
11:33	AWizzArd	Ah, interesting way to sort the cells to lock in a way that can't produce a dead lock.
11:39	jcromartie	Are there any functions that describe a struct definition?
11:40	jcromartie	or should I inspect an empty instance for keys?
11:40	jcromartie	i.e. (keys (struct-map my-struct))
11:40	StartsWithK	just check the keys
11:49	somnium	is there something like autotest for clojure?
11:51	StartsWithK	somnium, what is autotest?
11:52	dakrone	autotest monitors a file for changes and reruns your test suite
11:52	somnium	it watches source files for changes, runs tests, zeros in on fails, and has hooks for dorky ">_< tests failed" popups
11:54	tomoj	I'd think it would need to be hooked to whatever you use for development
11:54	tomoj	that or nailgun
11:54	tomoj	otherwise running the tests would be too slow
11:57	somnium	I was thinking something like $ lein autotest&
11:58	somnium	a simple one is really trivial to write in ruby/python, does the jvm make it harder?
11:59	tomoj	hmm
12:00	tomoj	I think you wouldn't want to just reload the changed files like the ruby ones do
12:00	dakrone	does the JVM have hooks to watch when a file changes?
12:00	tomoj	actually, that would probably work fine
12:01	tomoj	no, you have to do that yourself
12:02	tomoj	http://jnotify.sourceforge.net/
12:02	chouser	there's some inotify (for linux) code in clojure-jna
12:03	tomoj	nice
12:03	StartsWithK	lisppaste8, help
12:03	tomoj	apparently java 7 will be able to do it
12:03	tomoj	http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/javase/nio/#6
12:05	StartsWithK	somnium, http://paste.pocoo.org/show/179796/
12:05	fdaoud	i always get caught by this:
12:05	StartsWithK	and "projects" should be i guess "test" inside your project directory
12:06	StartsWithK	but that will be slow, as jvm will need a restart
12:06	fdaoud	doing (map (fn [x] (something-with-side-effects x)) [....]) doesn't do all the side effects
12:06	fdaoud	is the solution just (doall (map ...)) ?
12:07	StartsWithK	fdaoud, yes, but check doseq macro also
12:08	fdaoud	StartsWithK: oh, cool, thanks
12:15	fdaoud	StartsWithK: that's much nicer
12:19	stuartsierra	First draft of a new testing framework: http://paste.lisp.org/+21G4
12:20	fdaoud	stuartsierra: pre-ordered your book :)
12:20	stuartsierra	fdaoud: Wow, cool, thanks!
12:20	jlilly	Is there somewhere that I can just download all the clojure documentation?
12:20	jlilly	I'm going to be taking a flight later today and wouldn't mind having it handy if I need it.
12:21	dakrone	jlilly: you could save http://richhickey.github.com/clojure/clojure.core-api.html as a pdf? would that work for you?
12:22	jlilly	I think that'll do it. :) Thanks
12:22	jasapp	don't forget doc is your friend
12:22	the-kenny	stuartsierra: What's your new book?
12:22	dakrone	stuartsierra: I don't understand your usage syntax, you give the tests each 2 contexts, but then give the suite 1 context?
12:23	defn	stuartsierra: awesome presentation on rubyconf -- ive been waiting for that for 3 months now and it was worth it
12:23	StartsWithK	jlilly, wget -krmnp -E -X/page,/message --no-check-certificate -P <target>https://clojure.org
12:23	defn	s/on/at
12:23	StartsWithK	i think it should still work
12:23	stuartsierra	defn: I've never been to RubyConf.
12:23	StartsWithK	<target> - output directory
12:24	jlilly	I just printed the above page to pdf. That has basically what I was looking for.
12:24	jlilly	thanks though.
12:24	stuartsierra	defn: Maybe you mean Stuart Halloway?
12:24	jlilly	next question.. when in the repl, how can I change the active namespace to something other than user?
12:24	arohner	jlilly: (in-ns 'foo)
12:24	stuartsierra	the-kenny: My book, mostly by Luke Vanderhart, from Apress, will come out in a few months.
12:24	jlilly	rokk.
12:24	dakrone	(ns foo)
12:24	defn	oh god sorry stuartsierra
12:25	stuartsierra	dakrone: The purpose of a Suite is to define certain contexts that only run once for the entire suite, not once per test.
12:25	stuartsierra	defn: no worries, it's confusing
12:26	arohner	does anyone have experience with hibernate?
12:27	fdaoud	the-kenny: http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430272317
12:27	arohner	I'm looking for a better ORM solution, and I'm alternating between writing my own, and doing to hibernate what lein did to maven
12:27	dakrone	so how is (def t1 (Test '[a b] [c1 c2] '[(integer? a) (integer? b)])) supposed to be read? Define t1 as a test mapping a to the result of c1, b to the result of c2 and test the interger-ity of a and b?
12:27	dakrone	*integer-ity
12:28	stuartsierra	dakrone: Yes. It compiles to something like (fn [a b] (assert (integer? a))...)
12:28	stuartsierra	But you won't need to write it like that when I'm done.
12:28	dakrone	stuartsierra: so, then why is the suite context needed for this example at all then?
12:29	stuartsierra	dakrone: Just to demonstrate
12:29	dakrone	oh okay, I guess I was getting mixed up wondering why the context wouldn't do anything for that example
12:31	dakrone	I think it looks cool, but I'm wondering, isn't contextual testing supposed to be something that's alleviated with immutable functions since they don't require state?
12:32	stuartsierra	dakrone: Yes, but the real world has state in things like databases.
12:32	stuartsierra	For unit testing of pure functions, there's no context.
12:32	dakrone	that's true, setup is definitely nice for that
12:32	dakrone	what kind of changed syntax are you thinking?
12:32	stuartsierra	But you could still use contexts to set up a data structure and then run a bunch of assertions on it.
12:33	stuartsierra	dakrone: Everything should nest, i.e. (suite (test ...) (test ...) (test ...))
12:33	cemerick	stuartsierra: what is the objective with the new test lib?
12:33	dakrone	stuartsierra: (def c3 (Context (def my-url "http://clojure.org"))) would allow using that var in all tests if passed as a Suite context then?
12:33	stuartsierra	cemerick: Cleaner separation of setup/teardown and assertions.
12:34	stuartsierra	dakrone: no
12:34	cemerick	stuartsierra: nifty. Are you aiming for compat with clojure.test at all?
12:34	stuartsierra	dakrone: Contexts only produce values.
12:34	stuartsierra	cemerick: I could probably write a compatibility layer, but in the core, no.
12:35	dakrone	okay, can you give an example where the Suite context would be used and how?
12:35	stuartsierra	dakrone: Opening a database connection.
12:35	stuartsierra	dakrone: Creating a temporary directory.
12:36	dakrone	would you return the handle? or are contexts designed not to return anything used?
12:36	stuartsierra	A Context consists of two functions, :before and :after.
12:36	stuartsierra	The :before function returns a value to be used in a test. The :after function is called on that same value and does clean-up.
12:37	fdaoud	arohner: do you love hibernate?
12:37	arohner	fdaoud: no, never used it before last night
12:37	stuartsierra	Since Tests know about their Contexts, you can run a test outside of its Suite and still get the proper setup/teardown. But when you run the whole Suite, the setup/teardown only gets executed once.
12:37	arohner	I'm trying to figure out whether it would be a good base for an ORM
12:37	arohner	for a clojure orm
12:38	fdaoud	arohner: hibernate is complicated and I find that when you go off the beaten path, you end up wasting more time fighting with it than you saved for the easy stuff
12:38	dakrone	okay, I see, so if you ran t1 (in your example) by itself, it'd run the c1 and c2 setups, but if you ran the s1 Suite, it'd only run c1 once for both t1 and t2, is that right?
12:39	arohner	fdaoud: thanks
12:39	fdaoud	arohner: also, given that Clojure works so well with lists/maps instead of objects, I don't think Hibernate would be a good fit
12:39	fdaoud	arohner: but that's just my opinion.
12:48	arohner	fdaoud: that is useful. my current problem is I'm not too interested in writing the SQL queries to make an ORM efficient
12:49	arohner	left outer join, etc
12:49	jlilly	http://pastie.org/831116 -- anyone have suggestions on how I can fix clojure.contrib installation? Running on trunk atm.
12:49	technomancy	jlilly: unless you're hacking on contrib itself I'd recommend getting it from build.clojure.org instead
12:50	jlilly	:-/
12:50	jlilly	let's say I wanted to completely ignore your advice (as well founded as it likely is)...
12:51	jlilly	is this an issue with contrib not being 100% stable on the master branch?
12:51	technomancy	clojurebot: restfn?
12:51	clojurebot	excusez-moi
12:51	fdaoud	arohner: are none of the orm solutions for clojure to your satisfaction?
12:51	technomancy	,RestFn
12:51	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: RestFn in this context
12:51	technomancy	~RestFn
12:51	clojurebot	I don't understand.
12:51	technomancy	clojurebot: botsmack!
12:51	clojurebot	Huh?
12:51	technomancy	...
12:51	Chousuke	technomancy: what are you looking for?
12:52	stuartsierra	That's a bug, I think.
12:52	jlilly	Chousuke: the pastie I put above, where maven can't build clojure contrib
12:52	fdaoud	technomancy: sometimes it's better to talk to humans ;)
12:52	arohner	fdaoud: which ones are there? I've only seen http://github.com/duelinmarkers/clj-record
12:52	technomancy	Chousuke: I thought clojurebot had a nice anwser for the restfn problem since it's such a faq
12:52	Chousuke	technomancy: hmmh
12:52	stuartsierra	technomancy, Chousuke: I'm not sure that's the same bug.
12:52	stuartsierra	The pastie shows it's downloading the latest Clojure snapshot.
12:53	stuartsierra	A couple of people have reported this. But Hudson shows no errors.
12:53	jlilly	stuartsierra: I also tried it by specifying a recent checkout and build of clojure from trunk.
12:53	stuartsierra	jlilly: Try a mvn clean first.
12:53	technomancy	yeah, I've got no idea about contrib specifically; I just saw that error and it made me think of a bytecode/clojure version mismatch
12:53	stuartsierra	jlilly: Or just use the snapshot JARs on build.clojure.org
12:53	fdaoud	arohner: clojureql, clojure.contrib.sql, congomongo
12:54	jlilly	also, is it possible to make maven cache the things it downloads so things don't take as long?
12:54	stuartsierra	jlilly: It does that automatically.
12:54	arohner	fdaoud: AFAI understand, clojureql and contrib.sql are about generating queries, and congomongo is for mongoDB
12:54	jlilly	hrm. alright. Suppose I'm just being impatient.
12:55	technomancy	clojurebot: botsmack is <reply>Owww!
12:55	clojurebot	Ik begrijp
12:55	jlilly	stuartsierra: mvn clean fixed the issue, it looks like.
12:55	jlilly	thanks.
12:57	stuartsierra	jlilly: np
13:04	AWizzArd	What again was the syntax for :pre asserts?
13:08	jcromartie	wow, Compojure + MongoDB testing is so much faster than Rails + *SQL testing :)
13:09	dakrone	AWizzArd: (defn foo [a] {:pre [(not (nil? a)) (not (= 0 a))]} ... )
13:10	AWizzArd	thx
13:10	AWizzArd	jcromartie: why is this faster?
13:10	dakrone	np
13:11	jcromartie	AWizzArd: I dunno, I've just always had really slow test in Rails
13:11	jcromartie	Clojure feels faster overall
13:11	jcromartie	but the lack of a gigantic framework and twelve bazillion plugins and magical metaprogramming might be part of it
13:11	jcromartie	five thousand gem dependencies to load
13:11	jcromartie	etc.
13:13	qbg	Random question: Didn't Clojure use to support CL-style defns (with regards to docstrings)?
13:15	arkrost	hi! I can't understand in what siyuations I can't use commute instead of alter. Can someone show code example?
13:18	qbg	If you were multiplying a matrix in a ref, you couldn't use commute because matrix multiplication isn't commutative.
13:19	BrandonW	arkrost: i had the same exact question a couple of weeks ago
13:20	BrandonW	if you perform operations with alter
13:21	BrandonW	you are guaranteed that the order of the operations is correct. it will execute the same path that your code designs them
13:21	BrandonW	if anything fails, it rolls back the entire transaction, and performs the transaction again
13:21	BrandonW	if you have commute operations, and the transaction fails
13:21	BrandonW	it doesn't roll back the entire transaction
13:21	BrandonW	it just executes the commute function calls again, and tries to submit the transaction again
13:22	AWizzArd	jcromartie: oki, i see
13:22	AWizzArd	mapcat is lazy, yes?
13:22	BrandonW	in this way, commute operations will offer a more efficient use of time than alter, since commute won't have to roll back transactions, but alter will
13:31	jlilly	if I have (:require clojure.contrib.combinatorics) in my ns macro, do I need to prefix the functions inside there that I want? for instance combinatorics/combinations or anything?
13:32	danlarkin	jlilly: require doesn't refer
13:37	chouser	in other words, yes.
13:40	AWizzArd	Btw, when we say that Cells are cooperative like refs, serializing like agents and synchronyzing like atoms, do we then really need to mention the atoms? Aren’t refs also synchronized?
13:42	chouser	i guess you could say cooperative and synchronous as refs are.
13:43	AWizzArd	Yes.
13:49	hiredman	how are cells cooperative?
13:49	chouser	you can lock multiple locked-cells with a single in-cells
13:52	AWizzArd	hiredman: (in-cells [cell1, cell2, c3, ..] (bar 'foos))
13:53	jcromartie	"somnium.congomongo" is really hard to type :)
13:53	BrandonW	jcromartie: did you try other nosql databases before you started with mongo?
13:54	jcromartie	mostly because 16/18 of the letters are under my right hand
13:54	hiredman	make a namespace a.b that has a macro like refer-clojure for sominium.congomongo
13:54	jcromartie	I always pick namespaces based on QWERTY letter distributions
13:54	technomancy	jcromartie: that must really bug dvorak users
13:54	hiredman	(a.b/mongo)
13:54	jcromartie	BrandonW: I looked at them but I was impressed by Mongo's track record and successful installations
13:55	jcromartie	BrandonW: I didn't try anything else
13:55	BrandonW	i've looked at most of them briefly, as i was going to play around on a personal project with one just to dip my feet in the water, so to speak
13:55	jcromartie	Mongo seems focused and supported
13:55	BrandonW	yeah i had narrowed down between mongo and voldemort
13:55	chouser	what is required to leverage keyword callsite caching for my own class
13:55	chouser	?
13:55	BrandonW	but i've read the same thing you just said-- how mongo is well supported and painless to install
13:55	hiredman	ooo
13:56	hiredman	that is an interesting question
13:56	jcromartie	BrandonW: oh man, talk about painless... download the binaries and set up the permissions on /data/db
13:56	jcromartie	you're done
13:56	jcromartie	you want security between hosts? set up SSH tunneling
13:56	jcromartie	no users necessary
13:56	jcromartie	no permissions on the db itself necessary
13:56	jcromartie	(by default)
13:57	BrandonW	it is the perfect time, too. i was originally going to just use postgres, but that has always been a pain to set up for me. i like how most of what i read on nosql datastores says it is drastically smaller and less complex to set up initially
13:57	chouser	I have a bunch of final classes provided by a java lib, and want to provide an ILookup object for each with as much performance as possible.
13:57	BrandonW	kind of buys in with the whole linux philosophy of doing one thing very wel
13:59	jcromartie	BrandonW: yeah I think so
13:59	jcromartie	but do consider what kind of data you're going to be using
13:59	stuartsierra	Is there a compiler macro to get the current line of the current file?
13:59	jcromartie	you are going to have to enforce every constraint you want on the data in your code
14:00	jcromartie	BrandonW: if you need constraints and transactions, and if you're thinking about handling money or other "important" data then look elsewhere... the MongoDB project says so themselves
14:00	BrandonW	yeah, well it is a personal project anyways
14:00	chouser	,@clojure.lang.Compiler/LINE
14:00	clojurebot	0
14:00	jcromartie	then go for it, see how it works
14:00	stuartsierra	thx
14:00	BrandonW	it is not going to need scalability or anything special
14:00	BrandonW	i just wanted to try it out :)
14:00	jcromartie	heh
14:01	chouser	stuartsierra: I can't remember if there's something better or not
14:01	stuartsierra	ok
14:12	somnium	jcromartie: ah, I use dvorak. and autocomplete :)
14:13	jcromartie	that'll do it :)
14:13	jasapp	somnium: are you still looking for a clojure bson encoder / decoder?
14:13	jcromartie	but seriously... 88% one-hand on QWERTY is something special
14:14	jasapp	I got distracted over christmas, but I've got a pretty rough version hacked up
14:15	jlilly	in a for statement, I have a function which is returning a list of 2 item lists. What appears to be wrong with this syntax? (for [[r1 r2] (combinations myitems 2)] <body>) ?
14:15	jlilly	I'm getting a null pointer exception. (combination myitems 2) results in ((item1 item2))
14:15	jlilly	I would expect that r1 would be item1 and r2 would be item2. Am I missing something?
14:16	the-kenny	jlilly: ((i1 i2)) or (i1 i2)
14:16	jlilly	the-kenny: it returns ((i1 i2))
14:16	jlilly	ie: its a list of combinations(lists)
14:16	the-kenny	for the first, you'd need [[[r1 r2]] (fun)] in for
14:17	the-kenny	in your example, r1 is (item1 item2) and r2 is nil
14:17	somnium	jasapp: sure
14:17	chouser	,(for [[r1 r2] '((i1 i2) (i3 i4))] {:r1 r1, :r2 r2})
14:17	clojurebot	({:r1 i1, :r2 i2} {:r1 i3, :r2 i4})
14:18	somnium	jasapp: is it on github?
14:18	jasapp	were you interested in the bson wire protocol too?
14:18	the-kenny	whoops..
14:18	jasapp	not yet, at the rate I'm going, it'll be a week or two still
14:19	jlilly	,(for [[r1 r2] '((i1 i2))] (do (println (format "My thing 1: %s, Thing 2: %s" r1 r2))))
14:19	clojurebot	(nil)
14:19	rhickey	other than the breakage - what do you think of havingto say (map! a-side-effecting-fn ...)
14:20	boojum	,(inc (Integer/MAX_VALUE))
14:20	clojurebot	java.lang.ArithmeticException: integer overflow
14:20	chouser	instead of (doall (map impure-fn ...)) ? Or would map! still be lazy?
14:20	somnium	jasapp: no hurry, so far only one person has had any performance complaints
14:20	boojum	,(map inc [Integer/MAX_VALUE])
14:20	clojurebot	(2147483648)
14:20	rhickey	chouser: still lazy
14:20	jlilly	,(for [[r1 r2] '((1 2))] (println (format "r1: %s, r2: %s" r1 r2)))
14:21	clojurebot	(nil)
14:21	jlilly	hrm. that's not what my repl is returning :(
14:21	jasapp	was that alexyk?
14:21	somnium	jasapp: Ive been focused on other things, but steady contributions trickling in, which is cool
14:21	somnium	jasapp: yeah :)
14:21	jlilly	mine is returning... (r1: 1, r2: 2\n nil)
14:21	rhickey	I'm going to add mapv (or something) to map into vector, best for non-lazy
14:21	jlilly	though I suppose that's correct as clojurebot won't spit out printlines.
14:22	rhickey	chouser: trying to tease out when a seq is transient-able, never when based on side-effects
14:22	jasapp	I've just done some simple encoding benchmarks, and it's about 4 times faster than the java version
14:22	chouser	mapv instead of (into [] (map ...)) ?
14:22	rhickey	most of the seq fns could recursively detect transient-ability, but I need to know about side-effects
14:22	jasapp	just doing things like strings and integers
14:22	rhickey	chouser: yes, just shorthand for that
14:23	somnium	jasapp: wow, now that sounds really promising
14:23	jasapp	like I said, it's still pretty rough right now, but I'll let you know when it's suitable for public consumption
14:24	rhickey	chouser: the plan I had for making transient versions of ordinary seqs doesn't work, as lazy-seq-iter will have to retain head in a closure
14:24	chouser	ah, ok.
14:25	rhickey	so instead, the macro will generate code that will create either a LazySeq or LazySeqIter depending on the recursive transience of the passed colls
14:25	chouser	you probably missed my question earliery: what is required to leverage keyword callsite caching for my own class?
14:25	chouser	I have a bunch of final classes provided by a java lib, and want to provide an ILookup object for each with as much performance as possible.
14:26	chouser	so analysis done at runtime, and you'd get a single object -- one or the other instead of both as with earlier plan
14:27	jcromartie	hmm, why can't I seem to find the encodeBase64String static method in the Apache Base64 encoder?
14:27	rhickey	chouser: right, but still some kinks like side-effects and the fact that cols might be passed and not seqs
14:27	jcromartie	I mean, it's in the docs
14:27	somnium	jasapp: let me know when its suitable for hackery even, sounds very cool
14:27	jcromartie	but I get No matching method: encodeBase64String
14:28	jcromartie	am I doing this wrong? (Base64/encodeBase64String (.getBytes "foo:bar"))
14:28	rhickey	chouser: to get keyword lookup you need to implement IKeywordLookup, and return ILookupThunks for any keywords for which you want direct lookup
14:28	the-kenny	jcromartie: maybe you supply the wrong type of data as the argument?
14:28	the-kenny	I'd try a type-hint
14:29	chouser	rhickey: ok, thanks.
14:29	jcromartie	the-kenny: hmm, I'm using decodeBase64 just fine, though
14:29	jasapp	somnium: sure thing
14:30	jcromartie	hm, weird, it must be the codec version I have or something
14:30	rhickey	chouser: you won't be able to implement IKeywordLookup without access to the Java lib
14:33	chouser	rhickey: I'll have access to the Java lib at macroexpand time.
14:33	rhickey	chouser: no, I mean the ability to make those classes implement the interface
14:34	chouser	but I should be able to create an object at runtime that wraps a particular instance of a Java lib class, and delegates.
14:35	chouser	so (:foo javaobj) can't work, but (:foo (wrapmacro javatype javaobj)) should
14:36	chouser	and I think will still make sense for my use cases.
14:40	rhickey	chouser: I take that back, there is more to keyword lookup - kind of hardwired to deftype right now
14:45	chouser	hm...
14:46	lancepantz	hey chouser, remember that line you were talking to me about last night?
14:46	lancepantz	(defn to-seq [data] (into {} (for [[k v] (into {} data)] [k (if (instance? java.util.LinkedHashMap v) (to-seq v) v)])))
14:47	lancepantz	you suggested removing the inner into
14:47	chouser	I suppose my macro could generate a defprotocol with a method for each of the java class's methods, then generate a deftype to implement them as simple calls on the wrapped java instance.
14:47	chouser	lancepantz: yes
14:47	lancepantz	chouser: so it worked, but i don't understand why, i was hoping you could explain
14:48	lancepantz	because data the first time there is't a seq
14:48	lancepantz	its a LinkedHashMap
14:48	chouser	(into {} ...) doesn't return a seq either, it returns a map. Probably a hash-map
14:48	lancepantz	so is clojure coercing the k/v from the java datastructure
14:48	lancepantz	yeah, i'm sorry, thats what i mean
14:48	lancepantz	map not seq
14:48	lancepantz	but it's a clojure map
14:48	lancepantz	not a java primitive
14:49	chouser	lancepantz: 'for' calls 'seq' on each of the collections you give it.
14:49	chouser	'seq' knows how to return sequences for much more than just clojure collections. It can do Java Maps, strings, etc.
14:49	chouser	,(map int "abc")
14:49	clojurebot	(97 98 99)
14:50	lancepantz	ok, yeah, that's what i wasn't aware of
15:19	Hali_303	when doing a (:use somnium.congomongo), it throws a classnotfoundexception. How to find out what class is missing? (using slime)
15:22	Licenser	hmm hmm hmm
15:23	Licenser	how can it be that code (once executed in pmap once in map) behaves entirely different?
15:23	stuartsierra	Licenser: dynamic context
15:23	Licenser	hm?
15:23	somnium	Hali_303: are you typing that into the repl?
15:23	Licenser	can it be that something ghat was set using binding isn't the same over al pmap instaces?
15:23	stuartsierra	Licenser: thread-bound Vars won't propagate to calls from pmap
15:23	Hali_303	somnium: yes
15:24	somnium	Hali_303: then it should be (use 'somnium.congomongo)
15:24	Licenser	hmm so how can I make the content of this stuff I have in binding the same in all instances of pmap?
15:25	stuartsierra	(fn [x] (binding [some-var ...] (function x))
15:25	stuartsierra	I think there's a contrib macro for that.
15:25	Hali_303	somnium: I can do that, but then (mongo! does not work
15:26	Licenser	hm what I have is: (binding [v ...] (pmap #(some stuff that uses v %) list stuff)))
15:26	hiredman	well that is obviously not going to work
15:26	abscondment	Hali_303: can you catch & inspect the exception?
15:26	Licenser	hiredman: obviousely not no :P but intuitively I'd expect that
15:26	hiredman	binding is thread local, pmap executes things on other threads
15:27	Licenser	so what I'd have to do is make a function with a cosure around it?
15:27	hiredman	no
15:27	hiredman	a function is a closure
15:28	hiredman	if closures were the answer that would solve it
15:28	Hali_303	abscondment: how?
15:28	hiredman	but closures don't close over dynamic scope
15:29	Licenser	so I am very confused now
15:29	hiredman	(let [v v] #(some stuff that uses v)) will work because it captures the dynamic scoped value of v in the lexical scope binding it to the name v
15:29	somnium	Hali_303: what is the error message slime shows?
15:29	Licenser	ah hiredman thanks I'll try that
15:30	Hali_303	somnium: ahh. nothing. I'm a retard :D
15:30	hiredman	it's not something for trying, it works
15:32	Licenser__	hiredman: nah he does tell me he does not know v
15:32	Licenser__	since it's from a different namespace :P
15:33	hiredman	Licenser__: then you did it wrong
15:33	Licenser__	hiredman: yap likely, that is why I'm a bloody beginner :P
15:35	hiredman	so you have a var that you have dynamically rebound?
15:37	Licenser	hiredman: I use it for logging, there is a function (log ) that writes into log
15:38	hiredman	(pmap (let [log log] #(do stuff with logging)) list-of-stuff)
15:38	brandonw	don't worry Licenser I'm right there with ya :D
15:39	brandonw	clojure definitely has a learning curve coming from more procedural oo languages
15:39	brandonw	so cool once stuff starts to click, though :)
15:39	chouser	do you understand dynamic scope and lexical scope? if not, that's a good place to start.
15:39	chouser	perl has both. closures too.
15:40	hiredman	:(
15:40	hiredman	why would you mention that?
15:40	chouser	:-)
15:40	chouser	that's where I learned all three!
15:41	Licenser	chouser: dynamical scope=it figures what it is when he comes there, lexical scope=it figures what it is during parsing
15:41	Licenser	at least that is how I understood it :P
15:41	hiredman	lexical scope is creation time and dynamic is call time, and closures close of lexical scope
15:41	hiredman	over
15:45	brandonw	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scope_(programming)
15:46	brandonw	think of lexical scope as what you define a symbol in the scope of reading the code
15:46	brandonw	inside a function
15:46	brandonw	dynamic scope isn't related to where it is defined, but rather by the last thing that defined it, like a thread-local binding
15:47	hiredman	you can actually think of it as a single scope with the dynamic scope as a mutable environment frame at the bottom of the stack
15:47	hiredman	brandonw: that is very confusingly worded
15:47	brandonw	it's scope isn't local to a function, its value is whatever last successfully changed the value, which could be anywhere on that thread (not necessarily where the symbol was defined)
15:48	hiredman	brandonw: still confusingly worded
15:48	Licenser	I understand the problem but my brain right now failes to wrap around a solution o.o
15:48	hiredman	so you can get stickers like "my other car is a cdr"
15:48	somnium	:D
15:50	brandonw	yes hiredman your explanation is definitely better
15:51	brandonw	except i don't understand what you mean by 'single scope'
15:53	brandonw	does clojure offer a stack of dynamic bindings? or is it only like you said hiredman: a single mutable frame
15:54	chouser	brandonw: theres a stack, but you can only see the current one
15:55	brandonw	how would you pop off the last binding off the dynamic stack?
15:55	chouser	you leave a (binding ...) scope
15:55	brandonw	ah yes, that makes sense
15:56	kotarak	brandonw: I think the pop doesn't return the map. So you can't push it again, to fix the stack.
15:56	brandonw	i'm thinking in a procedural way again.. assuming each change to the binding is an actual change
15:56	brandonw	right
15:56	brandonw	i recall reading that somewhere, too, i think
15:57	chouser	brandonw: well you can do that but you'd better know exactly what you're doing.
15:57	chouser	(doc push-thread-bindings)
15:57	clojurebot	"([bindings]); WARNING: This is a low-level function. Prefer high-level macros like binding where ever possible. Takes a map of Var/value pairs. Binds each Var to the associated value for the current thread. Each call MUST be accompanied by a matching call to pop-thread-bindings wrapped in a try-finally! (push-thread-bindings bindings) (try ... (finally (pop-thread-bindings)))"
15:57	Licenser	so I've a ns that declares log a function that binds log to a ref and then calls another function in another ns that calls pmap with some functions that write to log. If I do it like this it fails since log isn't the right log if I do (let [log log] it failes since it does not know log yet if I use (let [log my-ns/log] it doesn't work since it's a different log then I bound :(
15:58	kotarak	Licenser: guessing: bound-fn?
15:58	Licenser	Reads on that
15:58	kotarak	(doc bound-fn)
15:58	clojurebot	No entiendo
15:58	kotarak	clojurebot: :(
15:58	clojurebot	Pardon?
15:59	brandonw	wait
15:59	brandonw	i just noticed
15:59	brandonw	the prefix , was removed from clojurebot interaction?
15:59	kotarak	doc always worked without. no?
15:59	brandonw	oh, it might have
15:59	kotarak	(inc 1)
15:59	kotarak	,(inc 1)
15:59	clojurebot	2
15:59	brandonw	okay, you're right
16:00	Licenser	thanks kotarak I see if that helps me ^^
16:00	brandonw	just coincidence that this was the first time i was looking at a doc call
16:00	kotarak	Licenser: you scenario sounds like a valid use case.
16:00	Licenser	kotarak: my scenario sounds like total mess to me when explaing int :P
16:00	kotarak	Licenser: (pmap (bound-fn [x] ...) blabla)
16:02	hiredman	kotarak: if the let is failing I don't see how bound-fn could work
16:02	hiredman	the let takes the value from the dynamic environment, and bound-fn would capture and restore the dynamic environment
16:03	hiredman	so if one fails because the value you want is not in the dynamic env so would the other
16:05	hiredman	Licenser: if you intend to capture the value of log you have to, you know, bind log to that value first
16:05	Licenser	hmm sounds like an idea hiredman now I figure how :P
16:06	kotarak	Licenser: do you have some code to paste?
16:06	Licenser	kotarak: yes like 2 dozent files :P let me see if I can extract the important stuff
16:06	hiredman	Licenser: it sounds like you are building a circular dependency
16:07	Licenser	hiredman: shouldn't be no
16:07	hiredman	namespace a.a uses and calls functions in namespace b.b and functions in namespace b.b use and depend on vars from namespace a.a
16:07	hiredman	that is a circular dependency
16:09	Licenser	but I've a utils namespace (for logging stuff) a frontend namespace and a abackend namespace
16:09	Licenser	th
16:09	hiredman	so?
16:09	hiredman	are you or are you not doing what I just described?
16:09	Licenser	I'll post something one second
16:09	hiredman	you description of what you are doing earlier is exactly that
16:10	hiredman	your
16:13	Licenser	http://gist.github.com/308078
16:13	Licenser	that is about what I'm doing
16:13	Licenser	now log is empty after run :(
16:15	kotarak	Licenser: you need bound-fn, because the let does not change the binding in utils
16:16	Licenser	googles for an bound-fn example
16:16	hiredman	kotarak: binding changes the binding for log from utils
16:17	kotarak	Licenser: (pmap (bound-fn [x] (log x)) (range 1000))
16:17	kotarak	hiredman: which does not carry over the pmap
16:17	hiredman	kotarak: right, but that has nothing to do with thelet
16:17	hiredman	let
16:17	kotarak	Licenser wrote something about let somewhere above.
16:18	hiredman	the issue with the let is log cannot be resolved in backend
16:18	Licenser	someone suggested let
16:18	hiredman	I did
16:18	kotarak	Ok. I'm confused.
16:18	Licenser	odd thing is: boundfn does not work either
16:18	hiredman	kotarak: I am not
16:19	kotarak	hiredman: good for you
16:19	Licenser	tries something
16:19	Licenser	ah there we go
16:20	Licenser	problem was that I bound'fn in the inner map not in the outer map
16:21	Licenser	kotarak: hiredman thank you two a hell lot for your patience
16:21	Licenser	I really appriciate it :)
16:21	kotarak	Licenser: gern geschehen
16:21	Licenser	kotarak: :D
16:22	Licenser	heh trairig ist nur, dass pmap langsamer ist als map :P
16:22	hiredman	I still think you are going to end up in a circular dependency, you've just delayed it
16:23	Licenser	narf wrong language sorry
16:23	kotarak	Licenser: for small problems. The idea of pmap is that the mapped funciton is expensive. For cheap functions the thread spawn overhead dominates
16:23	Licenser	hiredman: I acutally fixed one by moving stuff to the untils thing
16:23	Licenser	I had the impression that they use a thread pool so the spawn time is minimal?
16:24	chouser	minimal is more than none
16:24	kotarak	Licenser: well, there's a thread called for each item in the seq. So for cheap function "(log x)" pmap will be slower.
16:25	jcromartie	Is there a way to apply middleware to all of the routes in a compojure app?
16:25	Licenser	kotarak: that is why I used batches
16:25	jcromartie	I've tried unsuccessfully
16:26	somnium	jcromartie: (decorate the-app with-my-awesome-middleware) is the usual way, do you have multiple defroutes clauses?
16:26	jcromartie	somnium: no, just one defroutes
16:26	jcromartie	that's easy enough though
16:26	somnium	then decorate should work
16:26	jcromartie	I was using decorate-with
16:27	jcromartie	err, wait... not sure what was going on there
16:33	Licenser	is there a way to see how many transaction rollbacks I have?
16:34	chouser	nothing non-invasive yet, afaik
16:34	Licenser	aww :(
16:34	Licenser	because I've the feeling that is an isue right now
16:35	Licenser	concidering that when using pmap my entire time goes from 100s to 200s even usign batches
16:36	kotarak	Licenser: how about sending to an agent?
16:36	hiredman	not big enough batches
16:36	stuartsierra	Licenser: if your logging function does I/O, you could be screwing your throughput.
16:36	Licenser	no logging isn't what is the issue I think
16:36	chouser	or increment an AtomicInteger
16:36	Licenser	at least not this :P
16:37	Licenser	the problem is surely the map that is one big ref so if a unit (I code a game) moves any any other unit acceses the map in the same time it goes all boom I fear
16:37	Licenser	propably should make each field a ref
16:38	chouser	Licenser: you can try using an AtomicInteger to count your retries, but of course that may change the behavior
16:39	Licenser	*scratches head how to handle this best
16:40	Licenser	chouser: nods that's an idea but I feel I already know where the issue is, as some a unit moves every other unit will have to retry the entire thing
16:40	Licenser	but enough clojure for today, sadly work is calling tomorrow :(
16:40	Licenser	thank you all for your help!
16:40	Licenser	You're a great bunch of community!
16:58	hiredman	geez
17:00	arohner	somnium: does congomongo support db-refs?
17:04	somnium	arohner: the java-driver has a db-ref class
17:05	arohner	somnium: k. looks pretty easy to write a wrapper for it
17:05	lancepantz	i do not see a way to access the nth item in a sequence, am i missing something?
17:05	arohner	,(doc nth)
17:05	clojurebot	"([coll index] [coll index not-found]); Returns the value at the index. get returns nil if index out of bounds, nth throws an exception unless not-found is supplied. nth also works for strings, Java arrays, regex Matchers and Lists, and, in O(n) time, for sequences."
17:05	somnium	arohner: since its a convention for a map with {:collection ... :id ...} Im still not convinced of their utility, but maybe Im misunerstanding
17:06	arohner	somnium: I'm hardly an expert on mongoDB, but I think it's for "joins". if you have a bunch of objects that "point" at the same obj, you can save duplication
17:06	arohner	or if you modify the objecting being pointed at
17:09	somnium	arohner: right, what I dont get is that a map like {:name "bob" :friends [#someid #someid]} seems more or less equivalent, but without the extra type
17:10	lancepantz	thanks again arohner
17:10	lancepantz	that one's not in my book :/
17:11	kotarak	lancepantz: http://clojure.org/API
17:12	lancepantz	still need to know what the function is called
17:13	kotarak	lancepantz: skimming over it, clicking on interesting sounding/strangely looking/unfamiliar functions, I always find something interesting. :)
17:13	lancepantz	agree
17:13	arohner	somnium: how do you fetch by id?
17:16	somnium	arohner: (fetch :things :where { :_id #<ObjectId abcdefgh...> })
17:16	arohner	huh, that wasn't working for me
17:17	arohner	but :_id (ObjectId. "abdef...") does
17:17	somnium	arohner: have to make an Id object
17:18	somnium	someone suggested adding an (object-id ...) fn, but its the same length as the java constructor :/
17:18	arohner	I slightly prefer (object-id ...) over (ObjectId. )
17:18	somnium	at first I tried auto-coercing them, but it got confusing
17:18	arohner	the other nice thing is you don't have to import it
17:19	somnium	on the server usually have the id objects, but receiving json need to wrap
17:19	somnium	true, I can go ahead and add it
17:23	lpetit	rhickey: would you mind if I use the clojure logo as the logo for the counterclockwise project on google code ? (would be better that the "out-of-the-box" logo) : http://code.google.com/p/counterclockwise
17:23	redwyrm	if functions are side-effect free, then that means you can't call any Java library functions that have side effects (such as windowing stuff), right?
17:23	redwyrm	unless it's not in a function
17:25	rhickey_	lpetit: the Clojure logo should only be used to refer to Clojure itself
17:26	dakrone	are there any html-stripping libraries for clojure?
17:26	lpetit	rhickey_: that's what I wanted to check with you. Thought it could be more "visual" for people to remind them of clojure, but you're right of course.
17:33	piccolino	Am I correct in my understanding of the docs for the function read that it will take a string representation of a clojure form, and give you back the actual form without evaluating it?
17:34	technomancy	piccolino: not quite; it actually takes a reader which provides the string
17:34	piccolino	Oh, right. But the rest is correct?
17:34	hiredman	read-string takes a string
17:35	piccolino	Ah, there we go.
17:35	piccolino	Just had to scroll down a bit more.
17:35	piccolino	Thanks guys.
17:36	hiredman	you can get the reader to eval stuff
17:36	Chousuke	bind read-eval to false to prevent that
17:36	Chousuke	if course it doesn't matter if you control the input completely
17:37	piccolino	Yeah, I want it to not eval stuff.
17:37	Chousuke	but eg, someone might pass you a string "(foo bar #=(take-over-system))" :P
17:38	Chousuke	the #= reader macro is a way to eval things at read time
17:38	piccolino	Ah, I see.
17:45	powr-toc	has anyone here used clojure.contrib.http.agent ?
17:47	powr-toc	tomoj: was it any good? :-)
17:47	tomoj	I like it
17:48	tomoj	have to be kinda careful or you end up with a lot of trouble debugging
17:48	hiredman	I think stuartsierra said it needed to die a thousand deaths
17:49	powr-toc	hiredman: yeah, I seem to remember seeing him mention that... Being the author what was his problem with it? :-)
17:49	tomoj	if you treat it like a synchronous library and just try to call result on the agent as soon as you create it, and then your handler blows up, it's ugly to debug
17:49	hiredman	powr-toc: I think he hates contrib
17:50	hiredman	which I understand, it's a giant pile of stuff
17:50	powr-toc	hiredman: it sure is :-)
17:51	powr-toc	tomoj: I shouldn't need it to read a page... I just want a place to send outbound post requests to
17:52	powr-toc	tomoj: so asynchrony is what I want
17:53	powr-toc	by that, I mean non-blocking
17:54	dakrone	any NLP fans in here?
17:55	tomoj	powr-toc: should at least work then
17:56	tomoj	(http-agent "url" :method "POST" :body "post body")
17:56	powr-toc	what happens if an exception is thrown inside the agent?
17:56	tomoj	dakrone: I'm a fan
17:56	tomoj	not an expert
17:57	tomoj	powr-toc: then the agent has errors, which you can see with agent-errors
17:57	tomoj	done? and error? are helpful too
17:58	dakrone	tomoj: cool, I'm working on a clojure-opennlp library
17:58	tomoj	awesome
17:58	tomoj	I have dreamed before of replacing nltk
17:59	tomoj	unfortunately my nlp TA doesn't want to read clojure code so I have to use python :(
18:00	powr-toc	tomoj: Am I right in thinking each request is effectively an agent?
18:01	tomoj	yep
18:01	powr-toc	makes sense
18:02	dakrone	tomoj: check out http://gist.github.com/308172
18:02	dakrone	super rough, anyway
18:03	tomoj	awesome
18:03	tomoj	my next homework assignment is a pos-tagger
18:15	jcromartie	I wish int coerced strings into integers
18:24	dakrone	jcromartie: http://pastie.org/831753
18:25	jcromartie	:) ahead of you
18:25	dakrone	:)
18:29	alexyk	,(->> (remove nil? [nil nil 1.0 2.0]) (apply max))
18:29	clojurebot	2.0
18:29	alexyk	(->> (remove nil? [nil nil]) (apply max))
18:30	alexyk	well, java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: core$max (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
18:30	alexyk	can't it just say nil?
18:32	alexyk	I need a -->>-ble way to apply max to non-zero args or return nil
18:35	dakrone	,(first (->> (vector (remove nil? [nil 1])) (apply max)))
18:35	clojurebot	1
18:35	dakrone	,(first (->> (vector (remove nil? [nil nil])) (apply max)))
18:35	clojurebot	nil
18:35	dakrone	alexyk: how about that?
18:36	dakrone	not exactly the same, since it would return a list without the (first ..)
18:36	alexyk	hmm
18:36	hiredman	…
18:37	alexyk	hiredman: is it the ellipsis of disapproval?
18:37	hiredman	yes
18:37	alexyk	hiredman: (macroexpand ...)
18:37	dakrone	there are probably much better ways to do it, I'm still learning clojure entirely, so take hiredman's advice over mine
18:37	somnium	wasnt that some artifact from Lord of the Rings?
18:37	hiredman	dakrone: that does not work
18:38	hiredman	dakrone: it's not a matter of better ways to do it
18:38	hiredman	it just doesn't work
18:38	dakrone	hiredman: bleh, you're right
18:38	alexyk	yeah
18:38	dakrone	my fault, sorry
18:39	hiredman	,(-> [nil nil] (remove nil?) (apply max 0))
18:39	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.LazySeq cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
18:39	hiredman	,(->> [nil nil] (remove nil?) (apply max 0))
18:39	clojurebot	0
18:39	hiredman	bleh
18:39	alexyk	ah, sticking 0 works
18:40	slyphon	hrm
18:41	slyphon	do you have a set of things you import into your repl when you're working on something? in addition to the code you're working on, that is
18:41	somnium	alexyk: is the stuff you did with the cursors on github?
18:41	slyphon	is there a convention for including that stuff?
18:41	somnium	slyphon: user.clj
18:41	dakrone	yea, a user.clj
18:42	dakrone	in your classpath
18:42	slyphon	oh sweet
18:42	slyphon	ahhh
18:42	slyphon	ok, that makes sense
18:42	slyphon	do you normally work from the context of the user namespace, and import/use stuff from the other namespaces?
18:43	slyphon	i've been switching to the ns of my project and mucking about
18:43	alexyk	somnium: kind of, in the guts of another project
18:43	alexyk	somnium: I'll send you a link
18:47	slyphon	somnium dakrone: thanks! that's way more convenient :)
19:08	nathanmarz	anyone here familiar with clojure.contrib.logging? - it's not finding log4j even though it's in my classpath
19:10	slyphon	nathanmarz: i set it up with apache-commons + log4j last night but it "just worked"
19:10	nathanmarz	slyphon: did you just include those jars in your classpath?
19:10	slyphon	pretty much
19:11	nathanmarz	the odd thing is that if i copy-paste the source of clojure.contrib.logging into my repl it works
19:11	slyphon	i'm pretty new to this, though so i'm afraid i'm not gonna be able to be much help
19:11	slyphon	that is odd
19:12	technomancy	nathanmarz: earlier versions of c.c.logging had bugs that would cause the logging impl to get hard-coded at compile-time
19:12	slyphon	also, impl-name will tell you what implementation it's using, i found that helpful
19:12	technomancy	java logging is such a mess. I have used three different libraries that provide abstraction between different logging backends, but I've only used two backends.
19:13	slyphon	haha
19:13	nathanmarz	my project.clj has this as dependencies: :dependencies [[org.clojure/clojure "1.1.0"]
19:13	nathanmarz	[org.clojure/clojure-contrib "1.1.0"]]
19:13	technomancy	and one of the two was by accident, due to the aforementioned bug
19:13	technomancy	nathanmarz: it should be fixed in that version; must be another problem.
19:13	slyphon	hah
19:13	slyphon	technomancy: i tried out the new project by the guy that wrote log4j, it was pretty good
19:14	slyphon	but, i mean, then again, it's a friggin logging library
19:14	technomancy	if I had to do it from scratch again, I'd just write a wrapper around log4j instead of using c.c.logging
19:14	technomancy	heh
19:14	slyphon	i really like the 'spy' function
19:14	slyphon	that is something i've wanted in other langauges for a long time
19:15	slyphon	so, if i'm going to change the state of a java object, it doesn't make a difference if i have a ref pointing to that object or not
19:15	slyphon	in terms of concurrency concerns
19:16	slyphon	so, what do you do to synchronize access?
19:16	slyphon	i'm specifically working with a socket, here
19:17	slyphon	not all at once, now
19:18	somnium	slyphon: you can put it an agent to serialize access
19:19	slyphon	ok, that should do it
19:19	slyphon	didn't think of that, thanks
19:19	raek	i've been thinking about trying out cells (the new reference primitive) on these sort of things...
19:19	slyphon	it's different from (dosync) right?
19:20	slyphon	dosync only cares if the ref itself changes
19:20	somnium	slyphon: its async, just send or send-off
19:38	raek	which version of clojure is this intended to be run in? http://gist.github.com/306174
19:39	hiredman	master I imagine
19:39	raek	I get "Cannot assign to non-volatile: val" in 1.2.0-master when I evaluate (deftype ThreadCell ...
19:40	hiredman	master from git?
19:40	raek	yes
19:40	raek	maybe I need build a newer version
19:42	hiredman	…
19:42	hiredman	"master from git" implies the latest from git
19:42	hiredman	so don't say "yes I have that" unless you have the latest
19:44	raek	ok, that was not a very clear utterance of mine... :)
19:44	raek	anyway, what I had was a less-than-a-week old version of master
19:46	hiredman	well, the gist is less-than-two-days old
19:47	raek	I guess I didn't realize how quick things change... :)
19:48	raek	it works with master from git, I see now
19:48	raek	thanks
19:49	lancepantz	anyone mind looking at http://github.com/lancepantz/clj-yaml and seeing if you can figure out why 'lein test' doesn't work?
19:56	chouser	oooo... metadata on local from an outer scope are available to macros that expand inside.
19:57	technomancy	lancepantz: lein test only supports clojure.test not clj-unit
19:57	lancepantz	ah
19:57	lancepantz	cool
19:57	lancepantz	thanks for the project btw man
19:59	technomancy	glad you like it
20:00	hiredman	chouser: did you ever figure out keyword call site caching?
20:00	hiredman	well then
21:30	jcromartie	no offense to Dan Larkin, but I went back to http://richhickey.github.com/clojure-contrib/json.write-api.html after banging my head against the wall adding datatype handlers to clojure-json
22:19	jcromartie	is there a more idiomatic way to turn a map into a keyword vector than (reduce into [] m)
22:19	jcromartie	,(reduce into [] {:foo 1 :bar 2})
22:19	jcromartie	clojurebot: on vacation?
22:20	clojurebot	[:foo 1 :bar 2]
22:21	clojurebot	http://haacked.com/images/haacked_com/WindowsLiveWriter/IConfigMapPathIsInaccessibleDueToItsProt_1446B/works-on-my-machine-starburst.png
22:27	Raynes	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2245985/compile-clojure/2246577#2246577 "Thank you so much, you are amazing."
22:29	JonSmith	i need to download lein
22:33	jcromartie	When did Google start returning results without all of the words in the query?
22:34	TheBusby	when did they not?
22:34	jcromartie	for a long time
22:35	jcromartie	if I search with "compojure" in the query I can get results that clearly never had "compojure" on the page
22:35	TheBusby	I think you may be mistaken, or are you using "+keyword" syntax?
22:35	jcromartie	no, except for stop words, they always returned results that matched all of the words in the query
22:35	TheBusby	if you search for elephant, you'll find pages that only refer to packaderm
22:36	TheBusby	I don't think they've ever supported "all pages that include all keywords" as the default behaviour
22:36	TheBusby	google derives most of their logic from links, hence keywords aren't valued as highly
22:37	TheBusby	hence you can google for "evil dictator" and the first hit may be the whitehouse.gov
22:37	Raynes	LOL
22:39	wilig	Hopefully a simple question: If a have a function that requires 3 arguments and a sequence of three things is there a way to call the function with the sequence? Without split out each one?
22:40	TheBusby	wilig: do you have an example of what you might be looking for?
22:40	jcromartie	wilig: apply
22:41	jcromartie	,(apply + [1 2 3])
22:41	jcromartie	,(apply str [1 2 3])
22:41	clojurebot	6
22:41	clojurebot	"123"
22:41	jcromartie	seriously, what's up with clojurebot
22:41	BrandonW	i thought he said that the function requires 3 arguments?
22:41	wilig	jcromartie: duh! Thanks.
22:41	TheBusby	apply should work for N arguments
22:41	BrandonW	oh okay, nevermind
22:42	BrandonW	i thought apply worked on the basis that it can apply the first two arguments, then the result of that to the 3rd arg, then the result of that to the next.. etc.
22:42	jcromartie	that's reduce
22:42	BrandonW	oh okay
22:42	jcromartie	oh wait
22:42	jcromartie	no
22:42	BrandonW	(doc apply)
22:42	clojurebot	"([f args* argseq]); Applies fn f to the argument list formed by prepending args to argseq."
22:42	BrandonW	(doc reduce)
22:43	hiredman	,((reduce partial + [1 2 3]))
22:43	clojurebot	"([f coll] [f val coll]); f should be a function of 2 arguments. If val is not supplied, returns the result of applying f to the first 2 items in coll, then applying f to that result and the 3rd item, etc. If coll contains no items, f must accept no arguments as well, and reduce returns the result of calling f with no arguments. If coll has only 1 item, it is returned and f is not called. If val is supplied, returns the re
22:43	clojurebot	6
22:43	dnolen	_ato: you around?
22:43	BrandonW	ok you are right, jcromartie
22:47	Raynes	Apply just takes the elements out of the sequence and lays them neatly in a row in front of the fnmonster so he can gobble them up.
22:48	TheBusby	so ((reduce partial + [1 2 3]) 4) would end up being (+ 4 (+ 3 (+ 2 1)). What is the common use case for something like this?
22:50	slyphon	where's the "cell" stuff?
22:50	chouser	slyphon: just in a gist
22:50	slyphon	oh
22:50	slyphon	bummer
22:56	chouser	you can use it though
22:56	chouser	just load the file. :-)
22:56	slyphon	do you have a link?
22:56	chouser	http://www.shadyurl.com/
22:56	chouser	no. not that
22:57	chouser	try this: http://gist.github.com/306174
22:58	TheBusby	What is "magic" here? (magic - [4 5 6] [1 2 3]) => [3 3 3)
23:01	BrandonW	the magic of functional programming, of course!
23:02	drewr	TheBusby: map
23:03	BrandonW	if i was looking to learn more about clojure, should i get one of paul graham's books, go through SICP, or wait for the new clojure books to arrive?
23:03	TheBusby	drewr: thanks! I didn't realize you could use map like that
23:05	drewr	BrandonW: depends on what kind of knowledge you have already
23:05	BrandonW	this is my first foray into both lisp and functional programming
23:05	BrandonW	i forgot to say, i already went through Programming Clojure
23:09	drewr	start writing code and see what kinds of issues you run into along the way
23:09	drewr	though joyofclojure.com has been great so far, so get that when it comes out
23:19	TheBusby	For dealing with nested structures, how can you do this? (-> [1 2 3 4] (partial #(nth %2 %1) 3))
23:20	TheBusby	,((partial #(nth %2 %1) 3) [1 2 3 4]) ;; Works
23:20	clojurebot	4
23:24	jcromartie	OK so doing a with-json middleware using (decorate routes with-json) doesn't work
23:24	jcromartie	because whatever is returned by the route handler is converted into a response map as it goes up the chain of middleware
23:24	jcromartie	I think
23:25	jcromartie	i.e. I can't return a simple map from a handler and expect my with-json middleware to take care of it
23:29	JonSmith	are there any html generating frameworks for clojure that are higher level than converting vectors into html?
23:30	JonSmith	i'm using clj-html and it is really good, but i keep ending up with stuff that seems kind of awkward
23:33	JonSmith	i'm just having trouble conceptualizing managing all of the different pieces of webpages that i want to put together, and normally that means i need some macros or a higher level abstraction
23:34	konr	Anybody here does automatic stock trading?
23:34	BrandonW	exit
23:34	BrandonW	whoops
23:40	jcromartie	JonSmith: there's Enlive
23:40	jcromartie	but that doesn't generate HTML, it transforms it
23:41	JonSmith	yeah
23:41	JonSmith	i'm hoping to get 1 level up the abstraction level
23:41	JonSmith	if that makes any sense
23:44	jcromartie	can you work with functions that generate the HTML-generating code?
23:44	jcromartie	macros, etc?
23:44	jcromartie	that's what lisp is all about after all
23:44	JonSmith	yeah that's kind of what i'm doing write now
23:45	JonSmith	right now*
23:45	JonSmith	i'm working the clj-html and making a bunch of functions that expand into templates
23:45	JonSmith	i guess i can build a lower level of utility functions and work my way up
23:47	JonSmith	i guess the problem is that i build lisp code programmatically all of the time using macros and backquote and stuff, but i'm not seeing an obvious way to do a similar thing with html
23:48	JonSmith	I guess mostly because i think i'll run into efficiency problems and there is nothing quite like unsplice
23:49	JonSmith	not unsplice, splice
23:49	JonSmith	anyway i'm rambling