#clojure – 2010-01-29

2010-01-29

00:26	dakrone	having some classpath problems with clojure-couchdb, not sure the best way to get it loaded, into a REPL, trying to do this: http://pastie.org/799971
00:27	dakrone	anyone know what I'm doing wrong?
05:19	Hali_303	when I do a for comprehension, the side effects of the body is not executed until the resulting list is used,right?
05:19	Hali_303	how to force execution of side effects?
05:20	esj	i think do-run
05:20	esj	or do-walk
05:20	Hali_303	(I need to call a Java method for every element of a list)
05:20	esj	is what you're after - not ever used them
05:21	esj	(doc dorun)
05:21	clojurebot	"([coll] [n coll]); When lazy sequences are produced via functions that have side effects, any effects other than those needed to produce the first element in the seq do not occur until the seq is consumed. dorun can be used to force any effects. Walks through the successive nexts of the seq, does not retain the head and returns nil."
05:21	esj	dowalk holds onto the head
05:22	Chousuke	doall
05:22	Chousuke	not dowalk :)
05:22	Chousuke	Hali_303: if you're using for for side-effects, consider using doseq instead
05:23	Hali_303	thanks all, i'll try these
05:23	Chousuke	Hali_303: it supports for-like syntax but does not generate any lazy seqs
05:23	Hali_303	nice
05:23	Raynes	I hate when people ask questions in the form of a statement.
05:23	esj	do what Chousuke says, as I say, I've not actually used these
05:23	Raynes	"How to do this"
05:23	Hali_303	you mean you miss the question mark?
05:24	Chousuke	I sometimes simply forget the question mark :P
05:24	Raynes	No, it's the 'how to' part that's silly.
05:24	Raynes	Like you're about to explain how to do what you mention. :p
05:24	Raynes	When in reality you're asking how to do something.
05:25	Raynes	And are you sure it isn't doseq he's looking for?
05:25	Raynes	I'm not sure he needs to use for at all.
05:25	Chousuke	right. As I suggested :)
05:25	Raynes	Oh, I didn't see that.
05:25	Raynes	:p
05:51	esj	the coffee on Friday is never strong enough
06:46	Raynes	LauJensen: I just read your Python vs Clojure comparison. Joyful read. I'm going to post it on dreamincode.net, so you might get a little attention in the comment section. ;)
06:46	Raynes	At least, I'd like to post it there if it's alright with you.
06:46	Raynes	(A link, not the text of course.)
06:49	LauJensen	Raynes: Rich Hickey prefers that we avoid direct comparisons, especially those with value judgements such as the ones I make in that post, so if you want to respect his oppinion its best to leave it alone - I'm personally a little torn on the issue, because 1) I dont want to step on anybody to promote Clojure, but 2) There are people who benefit from hearing others (in this case my) experience and the resulting conclusion
06:50	Raynes	Well, you see, there is a little problem here. I kind of accidentally hit the post button before you replied. :\|
06:50	Raynes	LauJensen: I'll add an explicit note about this situation.
06:51	LauJensen	Ok :)
06:55	LauJensen	I'm not sure how much it will hurt, but its important to distance Rich from those kinds of posts. What has happend with most of the comparisons is that a multitude of people write counter-blogposts showing of certain feats of their language which the feel weren't represented, and I encourage that
06:56	Raynes	LauJensen: That's exactly what I did. I posted what you said, minus the "respect his opinion" bit, because I don't want to look like an asshole.
06:56	LauJensen	hehe - got link ?
06:56	Raynes	http://www.dreamincode.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=152675
06:57	Raynes	Of course, I added a bit myself, basically saying the same thing.
06:58	Raynes	It's late, so nobody has read it yet. If you see anything in need of changing, I could do so.
06:58	LauJensen	Looks fine
06:59	LauJensen	My last post even got linked on climateaudit.org :)
06:59	Raynes	Hah. Nice.
06:59	spariev_	lol
06:59	LauJensen	yea :)
06:59	neotyk	LauJensen: nice way to promote :)
07:00	LauJensen	Yea - I got about 7300+ visits yesterday from people who were interesting in the weather report via Clojure :)
07:01	Raynes	Haha.
07:01	LauJensen	Its not _huge_ but I think its pretty good for a blog which targets such a narrow audience, lispniks on the jvm
07:01	Raynes	I don't believe my website has had that number of visits... Well, ever.
07:03	Raynes	I has a 40% off code for Joy. :D
07:03	LauJensen	Wow you got a discount on a book that isn't written yet?! :)
07:03	esj	Raynes: good move. Tremendous book
07:03	rsynnott	"Whenever a human being exhales they emit CO2 so the Carbon Tax is in effect a tax on life." - no it isn't. mutters
07:03	LauJensen	I'm really looking forward to that book, but I wish they would pmap it and have it done by feburary
07:04	esj	(inc Lau)
07:04	Raynes	esj: I'll be purchasing the ebook version on the 1st.
07:04	LauJensen	rsynnott: Is there where I drop the ever powerful "yes it is" argument, or do you explain further?
07:04	rsynnott	heheh
07:04	Raynes	I never buy print non-fiction print books.
07:05	rsynnott	no-one is planning on taxing CO2 emissions from humans (as in, from human biological function). Anyway, not really on-topic
07:05	rsynnott	Interesting post, though
07:06	LauJensen	rsynnott: We hosted the Climate Conference here in Denmark recently, and I believe it was in that setting that the Chinese said that Climate changes could not be a separate issue from population control as every person emits CO2 - So the first talks about it have already begun
07:06	LauJensen	But I agree its OT - Thats why I don't jump into the political comments - I just wanted to roll a big data set
07:06	Raynes	#globalwarmingnonsensenobodyintheclojurechannelbutlaujensonandrsynnottreallycaresabout ;)
07:06	esj	Is it an anti-pattern to have a map containing functions that operate on other members of the map ? I have this feeling I have just created an object accidentally.
07:07	LauJensen	esj that sounds awful
07:07	esj	i agree
07:07	esj	here's what I'm trying to do. I have a dataset, that lives in a sorted-set-by. I'd like to be able to specify verifier functions, so that when that sorted-set is conj'd to, it runs the verifiers for it
07:08	esj	I feel maybe I should be passing them in to the conj'ing function, and closing over them
07:08	esj	returning a conj-only-this-sort-of-data function
07:08	LauJensen	Are you conjing from multiple functions since you cant implement the validation alongside the conj?
07:09	esj	yeah
07:09	LauJensen	(->> input (filter conjoinable?) (map my-previously-nasty-fn)))
07:09	esj	this makes sense
07:10	esj	so the idea is to keep the dataset a dataset, and wrap functions
07:10	esj	i was horrified when I saw what I'd done.
07:11	esj	thanks Lau
07:21	CalJunior	'(map [1 2 3] '(1))
07:21	CalJunior	,(map [1 2 3] '(1))
07:21	clojurebot	(2)
07:21	CalJunior	how do I do this in reverse?
07:22	CalJunior	call the value and get the index(/indices)
07:26	mtd	if I (add-classpath ...) a java source directory will clojure be able to give me line numbers for java exceptions (thrown by said java classes, of course)?
07:48	djpowell	hmm i have some code that does stuff with a big hashmap with loads of litle struct like maps inside. it seems to use quite a bit less memory in clojure 1.1 than 1.0 - is that expected?
08:41	chouser	rhickey: I keep having to moderate your messages to the group.
08:41	chouser	seems so silly
08:42	rhickey	chouser: don't worry about mine - I'll flush them through after I've posted.
08:42	chouser	oh, ok.
08:43	rhickey	It looks like Google has fixed the impersonation problem, and I've unmoderated MB's account since I haven't seen any spam via his name in a while
08:43	chouser	ah, great.
08:43	rhickey	Nor mine, but I remain cautious
08:45	AWizzArd	When I want to dynamically create functions for which I want to type hint their parameters its done best with a macro and with-meta, yes?
08:46	AWizzArd	or: i basically want to do: (defn foo [(with-meta 'x {:tag String})] x)
08:46	chouser	The way macros are usually used is not what I would call dynamic. Usually they're expanded at compile time.
08:47	AWizzArd	I just wrote a working macro for that, but it is using gensym and tags those.
08:47	ampleyfly	so, I'm trying to build clojure-contrib from source. all the pages I find talk about clojure-contrib.jar, but I get no such resulting file, are the pages outdated or is something wrong?
08:47	AWizzArd	chouser: well yes.. though as soon a jvm with clojure is running then compile time always happens during runtime.
08:47	jcromartie	AWizzArd: unless you AOT
08:48	AWizzArd	i thought aot also starts first Clojure
08:48	jcromartie	when you set out to do it, yes
08:48	chouser	yes, you can compile things at runtime and of course evaluate things at compile time, but that does not mean they are the same thing. The distinction is useful and practical.
08:49	chouser	hm.. though intertwined. perhaps I'm being pedantic.
08:49	AWizzArd	yes, I agree and don't want to suggest anything in this regard. I just wonder if (defn foo [#^String x] x) can be expressed by using with-meta
08:50	AWizzArd	I agree to what you said before, and not that you are pedantic.
08:50	AWizzArd	:)
08:51	AWizzArd	I want to generate lists and (eval them) to produce functions that are used as comparators for sorted maps/sets and are type hinted.
08:51	chouser	That test, when read, produces roughly the same form as when evaluating `(defn foo [~(with-meta 'x {:tag 'String})] x)
08:51	AWizzArd	(compare) is nice too, but I suppose that compare needs to rely on reflection.
08:53	AWizzArd	As I see it the reader is doing the necessary magic to tag x in (defn foo [#^String x] x)
08:53	chouser	yes
08:53	AWizzArd	And this can't be done by using with-meta without another eval
08:56	AWizzArd	ok, then my macro is fine I think
08:56	AWizzArd	it works, and I only wanted to make sure that I didn't miss a more elegant solution.
08:56	chouser	no
08:56	chouser	well, I'm not sure.
08:56	chouser	can you paste your code somewhere?
08:57	AWizzArd	Unfortunately not right now.
08:57	chouser	if you're building that form to pass to eval, you shouldn't need another eval
08:57	chouser	if you're building that form in a macro, you shouldn't need eval at all.
08:57	AWizzArd	I am not using eval. My strategy is different:
08:59	AWizzArd	I gensym a symbol. I tag it to be a String (for example). This symbol I insert into (fn [here] ..)
09:00	AWizzArd	And indeed, if I pass Object into my macro i get a reflection warning. If I pass in a String Clojure is silent, and my function parameters indeed have the type tags.
09:00	cemerick	cgrand: looks like I need to do (eval (compile-selector some-selector-binding)) in order to get the FSM for a bound selector value?
09:01	mikem	Does anyone know whether Rich Hickey's presentations (clojureforjava.pdf, clojureforlispers.pdf, etc) in the Google group files section (http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/files) are liberally licensed? ie: can I re-use the material for my presentation?
09:05	rhickey	so, I'm dreading pulling contrib (the version I have builds with ant just fine). What is going to happen to me?
09:05	chouser	rhickey: just make sure you have maven installed and a good fast internet connection
09:05	jcromartie	rhickey: Maven is going to pull down the entire internet as a dependency at every phase.
09:06	jcromartie	i.e. things like clean is a dependency that it has to download
09:06	jcromartie	but it works :)
09:06	chouser	rhickey: but Stuart S. fixed up the pom and the README so building it against your own clojure.jar should be no problem.
09:06	chouser	(once you have maven and it has fetched its copy of the internet)
09:07	AWizzArd	funny :)
09:07	rhickey	what's current maven?
09:07	cemerick	stick with 2.2.x
09:07	chouser	I think readme just says you need 2-something
09:07	cemerick	3.x is not fully baked yet
09:10	mikem	rhickey: your slides at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/files don't say how they're licensed... would I be able to use some of the contents for my presentation to a local functional programming group?
09:11	rhickey	mikem: with acknowledgement, sure
09:11	mikem	rhickey: yep, of course with acknowledgment :) thank you
09:11	ampleyfly	do you get the clojure-contrib.jar-file when building with maven?
09:11	AWizzArd	When I have a sorted-set/map, is there then a way to access its comparator fn?
09:12	AWizzArd	,(meta (sorted-map-by compare))
09:12	clojurebot	nil
09:13	chouser	AWizzArd: (.comp the-map)
09:14	AWizzArd	is it correct that functions don't have metadata?
09:14	chouser	not anymore!
09:15	AWizzArd	So, I can add type hints to already existing functions?
09:17	AWizzArd	oh, you mean metadata for functions was removed?
09:18	AWizzArd	,(meta (fn [a] a))
09:18	clojurebot	nil
09:18	chouser	no, you were right that previously you could not add metadata to an existing function
09:18	chouser	in the master branch, you now can.
09:19	AWizzArd	Yesterday I downloaded Clojure from http://build.clojure.org/ and that version does not give me metadata on fns yet.
09:19	chouser	however, the compiler does not appear to check the :tag of anonymous functions
09:19	AWizzArd	,(meta (fn xyz [a] a))
09:19	clojurebot	nil
09:19	chouser	for me, (meta (fn [a] a)) returns e.g. {:line 36}
09:20	AWizzArd	yes, in my Clojure too
09:20	chouser	well, that's metadata on a function.
09:20	AWizzArd	yes
09:21	AWizzArd	so, functions that were defn'ed will give me access to the arglists metadata
09:21	AWizzArd	rhickey: is it better to not make metadata of anonymous functions available?
09:21	AWizzArd	as in :arglists
09:22	mikem	I'm getting a "failed to validate POM for project" when trying to build clojure-contrib (latest git)
09:22	rhickey	AWizzArd: what is the question?
09:22	mikem	I'm building against a local clojure.jar as specified in README.txt
09:22	mikem	any ideas?
09:23	mikem	Ah, here's a more descriptive error: "For dependency Dependency {groupId=org.clojure, artifactId=clojure, version=1.2.0-master-SNAPSHOT, type=jar}: system-scoped dependency must specify an absolute path systemPath."
09:23	AWizzArd	rhickey: is there a way to do add type hints to the args of an anonymous function?
09:24	mikem	ok, passing the absolute path to clojure.jar (not one starting with ~) works
09:24	chouser	AWizzArd: such a thing would do you no good without recompiling the function anyway.
09:25	AWizzArd	ok
09:25	AWizzArd	and is there a way to get the arglists of an anon fn?
09:26	rhickey	AWizzArd: you can add metadata to an anonymous fn like this:
09:26	rhickey	user=> (meta #^{:my :meta} (fn [x] x))
09:26	rhickey	{:line 2, :my :meta}
09:26	chouser	mikem: thanks! I needed to do that too.
09:26	AWizzArd	this works for me
09:26	ampleyfly	mikem: do you also get a lot of errors after "Testing clojure.contrib.test-contrib.test-jmx"?
09:27	rhickey	but using fn metadata as a reflection thing is a bad path. If we really want fn reflection then fns should directly support it. :arglists meta is for humans
09:28	AWizzArd	Yes, that makes sense. And it would indeed be a good idea to have reflection for fns.
09:28	mikem	ampleyfly: actually, I'm getting a ClassNotFoundException for clojure.contrib.pprint.ColumnWriter during the build
09:30	chouser	contrib is building and testing fine for me now
09:31	AWizzArd	chouser: is (= ::User (type user)) the most efficient way to check if user in a (deftype User)?
09:31	cemerick	mikem, chouser: a relative path will work fine, ~ is a shell expansion that java won't process
09:32	chouser	cemerick: a relative path did not work for me
09:32	cemerick	hrm....or, I think it will
09:32	cemerick	nevermind then :-)
09:33	ampleyfly	I think the readme says relative paths don't work
09:34	mikem	cemerick: yep, didn't work for me either.
09:35	cemerick	I think I'm remembering maven 1 and the jar override options...
09:36	abrenk	ampleyfly: I just pulled and -contrib builds fine. What version of Java are you using?
09:38	ohpauleez	rhickey: I just found out you're coming to my city in April
09:38	ohpauleez	if you need anything before or while you're here, totally let me know
09:38	rhickey	ok, thanks
09:39	ohpauleez	also, for all, the clojure talk I gave at Drexel yesterday went very well, they asked me to go over the scheduled time by an hour
09:40	rhickey	ohpauleez: cool
09:41	chouser	ohpauleez: excellent
09:41	ampleyfly	abrenk: hrm, it seems I'm running java version "1.6.0_0"
09:41	ampleyfly	OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea6 1.6.1) (6b16-1.6.1-3ubuntu1)
09:41	ampleyfly	OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 14.0-b16, mixed mode)
09:41	mikem	my clojure-contrib build is currently suffering from this error: http://paste.lisp.org/display/94078 -- seems it was reported earlier, but I can't find an answer in my logs
09:42	rhickey	first Clojure NYC meetup also a big success - 60+ people
09:42	chouser	wow
09:43	abrenk	ampleyfly: I was using "Java HotSpot(TM) Server VM (build 14.3-b01, mixed mode)" from Sun.
09:45	ampleyfly	I thought I was runnig suns vm too
09:46	ampleyfly	well, changed it with update-alternatives --config java, no errors this time around, I still don't get a clojure-contrib.jar, but a clojure-contrib-1.2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar, is that fine?
09:53	rhickey	did the contrib tests get folded together? - there used to be 2 phases of contrib tests
09:54	chouser	I didn't know there were 2 phases
09:56	rhickey	chouser: just by running ant test you got two sets of tests and results
09:56	rhickey	now, since mvn package runs tests and mvn test builds, what's the difference?
09:58	chouser	log says "Remove test-contrib, "mvn clojure:test" is equivalent"
09:59	rhickey	what does this mean? [WARNING] Using platform encoding (MacRoman actually) to copy filtered resources, i.e. build is platform dependent!
09:59	rhickey	does mvn have a command line switch to show me the available targets?
10:00	AWizzArd	rhickey: what in the thread to which you linked scares you?
10:01	rhickey	just about all of it
10:01	clojurebot	slime-install is an automated elisp install script at http://github.com/technomancy/emacs-starter-kit/blob/2b7678e9a331d243bf32cd8b591f826739dad2d9/starter-kit-lisp.el#-72
10:01	chouser	rhickey: looking at the old build.xml file, "test" appears to do test_contrib and test_datalog. "mvn ... package" reports testing datalog as well as the other namespaces, so I would assume that's sufficient.
10:09	esj	is it intended that (empty coll) where coll is a sorted-set-by destroys the comparator ?
10:10	esj	'(conj (sorted-set-by #(> %1 %2)) 1 4 2)
10:10	esj	,(conj (sorted-set-by #(> %1 %2)) 1 4 2)
10:10	clojurebot	#{4 2 1}
10:10	esj	but
10:10	esj	,(conj (empty (conj (sorted-set-by #(> %1 %2)) 1 4 2)) 1 4 2)
10:10	clojurebot	#{1 2 4}
10:11	chouser	Did we regress? http://www.assembla.com/spaces/clojure/tickets/128
10:13	chouser	esj: seems to work here. what version of clojure are you using?
10:13	esj	{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 1, :incremental 0, :qualifier "master"}
10:13	esj	and clojurebot agrees with me.
10:13	_fogus_	,(for [x (range 1 11)] (/ 2520 x))
10:13	clojurebot	(2520 1260 840 630 504 420 360 315 280 252)
10:14	_fogus_	When did freenode start requiring nick registration?
10:15	chouser	_fogus_: a week or so ago I think. spam issue apparently.
10:15	_fogus_	I must have missed that memo
10:16	_fogus_	Today was the first day that it blocked me... I was chatting away at people here and no one would respond to me. :-(
10:16	Chousuke	I think it's a channel mode?
10:16	chouser	_fogus_: your request for memos had the old cover sheet
10:18	_fogus_	chouser: I guess I'll have attend the corresponding training
10:20	chouser	_fogus_: I signed you up for that. You're welcome. Be sure to come in by 8am on Sunday.
10:21	chouser	I can't remember how to figure out if a particular commit is in the history of a particular tag
10:33	jcromartie	_fogus_: where did blub come up?
10:33	fmu	i think Blub is due to pg
10:34	jcromartie	yes it is
10:34	_fogus_	Apparently Clojure is Blub now. http://lambdassociates.org/blog/klambda.htm sigh
10:34	somnium	Blub is underrated -- it can get the job done and its not weird.
10:34	Raynes	I really need some food.
10:35	Raynes	Oops, this isn't Twitter!
10:35	Raynes	;)
10:35	_fogus_	Blub has become "whatever I don't like"
10:36	jcromartie	_fogus_: When Clojure, Python and CL are Blub, you know the author is totally out of touch.
10:36	chouser	esj: well, I'm stumped. I can't reproduce your error with master or 1.1.0. git claims the fix is in 1.1.0.
10:37	esj	bizarre ! But I'm hallucinating right, because CB gave me the same answer ?
10:38	chouser	esj: yes, and though clojurebot claims to be running 1.1.0 snapshot, I'm never to confident.
10:38	chouser	esj: did you build your own clojure.jar?
10:38	esj	yeah
10:38	esj	i'll repull and see what comes out
10:38	esj	thanks for looking at this for me chouser
10:40	Raynes	Anybody interested in a Wave invite?
10:41	the-kenny	Raynes: I can offer some of these too
10:41	Raynes	I have plenty go around.
10:42	Raynes	Like, 23.
10:43	the-kenny	I have 19 here
10:45	Raynes	the-kenny: Heh. A couple of months ago, everybody in the channel would have been screaming "ME!!!!"
10:46	the-kenny	Raynes: Just write it on Twitter :p There are plenty people
10:46	Raynes	Yeah. I don't like the people on twitter though. :\|
10:51	esj	who stole clojars.org ?
10:51	jcromartie	so I am building this web app in Clojure, using Compojure to serve up JSON
10:51	jcromartie	and I have got my data all relational-like
10:52	jcromartie	I am using sets to store records, and each record is a map
10:52	jcromartie	I can index the sets using watches
10:52	jcromartie	it seems pretty good
10:52	jcromartie	much faster than a database
10:53	esj	well, until you have I/O....
10:53	jcromartie	I'm wondering what other people do to model their data when building an application
10:53	jcromartie	esj: what do you mean?
10:53	esj	well, its the syncing stuff to disk that's soaks up performance
10:54	jcromartie	I got a pretty good solution going yesterday
10:54	jcromartie	not sure how it's going to scale
10:54	jcromartie	but it's pretty agnostic at this point... I should be able to move it to a DB if necessary
10:54	jcromartie	or whatever solution
10:54	jcromartie	but it's fun to build it in the first place :P
10:55	esj	cool
10:55	Raynes	Heh.
10:56	Raynes	the-kenny: Tweeted it, explicitly stating that the invitations were only for my followers, and exactly 3 minutes later some random guy replies: "@IORayne yes,I need it,thank u.(jinrilidong@gmail.com)"
10:56	Raynes	chuckles*
10:56	the-kenny	Raynes: That's exactly what I experiences
10:56	the-kenny	experienced
10:58	alexyk	chouser: will Ctrl-C with break-thread and no ongoing computation kill repl itself?
10:59	alexyk	ah, it just says SIGINT
10:59	alexyk	i.e. "not so fast"
10:59	esj	chouser: OK. Turns out I was lying to you, sorry. In my git pulled clojure it seems to work. In that which I pulled from clojars using leiningen it does not. I'm using the clojure jar documented on the leiningen webpage, [org.clojure/clojure "1.1.0-alpha-SNAPSHOT"] . I'll see if there are alternatives, but clojars is being a little slow right now. Thanks for the pointers.
11:00	chouser	alexyk: yeah, it gets a little wonkey
11:00	esj	both report identical clojure-version however
11:01	chouser	alexyk: if you hit Ctrl-C while sitting at the prompt, sometimes your next operation will fail. though not always. :-/
11:01	chouser	oh, wait.
11:02	chouser	1.1.0-alpha-SNAPSHOT means before 1.1.0, so all bets are off
11:02	esj	aha !
11:03	chouser	as does 1.1.0-master -- alpha's actually probably older
11:03	esj	is there anywhere that I read this naming convention to get clued up ?
11:04	chouser	you need "1.1.0" or "1.2.0-master..." to be sure of having that fix
11:05	esj	yeah, I've just changed to 1.1.0 and its 100%
11:05	chouser	maybe we should change the convention. use "1.1.0" and then "1.1.0-postrelease-SNAPSHOT" or something.
11:05	chouser	eh. maybe not.
11:05	chouser	esj: great!
11:05	esj	another myster solved.
11:06	esj	serves me right for copy-pasting the project.clj on the webpage :)
11:09	cemerick	rhickey: not sure if someone else addressed it, but the "Using platform encoding" means that a resource and source file encoding isn't set in the pom.
11:09	cemerick	stuartsierra: should add <project.build.sourceEncoding>UTF-8</project.build.sourceEncoding> to <properties>
11:11	cemerick	rhickey: also, maven doesn't have targets, hit has phases that build plugins can attach themselves to: http://maven.apache.org/guides/introduction/introduction-to-the-lifecycle.html
11:12	cemerick	chouser: do you have greatest hits in the logs bookmarked?
11:12	chouser	I do not
11:12	cemerick	that'd be an interesting wiki project
11:12	chouser	hm, it would.
11:12	cemerick	"The Clojure Archeology Project"
11:18	stuartsierra	cemerick: ok, pushed
11:20	arohner	is github's code output broken for anyone else? I get a big string of A's where code should be
11:20	zakwilson	I'm a bit confused about why I'd use atoms. It appears that everything I'd want to do with an atom could also be done with an agent without any changes in semantics. Are they smaller/faster?
11:21	arohner	ah, it's just chrome. FF is fine
11:22	cemerick	_fogus_: Being labelled as blub by Qi folk is not a horrible thing :-)
11:23	arohner	zakwilson: the semantics are different. agents are async; stuff happens in another thread "later". atoms are synchronous
11:23	chouser	zakwilson: 'swap!' on an atom doesn't return until it's successful. 'send' and 'send-off' to an agent queue the work and return immediately, likely before that work has been done
11:23	zakwilson	chouser: that's what I wanted to know.
11:24	zakwilson	I somehow missed that swap! blocks.
11:40	arohner	one weird thing about defprotocol maps: it's easy to do things that require your protocol, and it's easy to accidentally turn your deftype into a regular map
11:41	arohner	as in (my-protocol-fn obj)
11:41	arohner	and then (merge {:a 1} (obj))
11:41	arohner	the return value of merge is a normal map, and now you can't call protocol functions on it
11:45	esj	chouser: here it is. After I figured it out from the repl.sh I saw it in the docs. lein repl uses the version of clojure in the leiningen.jar, not that spec'd in your project.clj.
11:46	Raynes	esj: Yeah, that bit me in the ass a few days ago.
11:48	alexyk	is there a way to tell the repl to do some massive GC action?
11:49	chouser	(System/gc)
11:49	chouser	dunno if it's massive, and that's the extent of my knowledge. :-)
11:49	arohner	that isn't guaranteed, I believe
11:49	arohner	it's a "hint"
11:49	alexyk	ok
11:49	chouser	I don't think the gc guarantees much of anything.
11:50	alexyk	IDEA has this little trash bicket and when you click it, it does work every time
11:50	alexyk	bucket
11:50	rsynnott	alexyk: in all JVMs? :)
11:50	Raynes	alexyk: You've invented a new word!
11:50	Raynes	I has a trash bicket!
11:54	chouser	rhickey's java indentation style is infecting my C++ code
11:56	arohner	is there a reason why (empty) can't work on deftype maps?
11:57	arohner	I see its source currently throws UnsupportedOperationException. Is that because it's the smart thing to do, or just hasn't been done yet?
11:58	hiredman	arohner: deftypes aren't maps
11:59	arohner	hiredman: thank you for correcting that. From now on I'll refer to "deftypes that implement IPersistentMap"
11:59	hiredman	arohner: :P
12:00	Raynes	My deftype implements IPersistentMap because dissoc is cool. :D
12:02	chouser	trying to implement only 'empty' of IPersistentMap makes it mad
12:05	rhickey	arohner: does your cool deftype have fields?
12:05	arohner	rhickey: yes
12:05	rhickey	then how could it be empty?
12:05	hiredman	,(empty (struct (create-struct :foo :bar) 1 2))
12:05	arohner	rhickey: fair enough
12:05	clojurebot	{:foo nil, :bar nil}
12:06	arohner	what I really want is for:
12:06	arohner	(my-protocol-fn (merge {:foo true} my-deftype))
12:06	arohner	but merge returns a normal map, rather than my deftype
12:07	arohner	so I was thinking (merge (empty my-deftype) {:foo true} my-deftype))
12:07	hiredman	why not switch the order?
12:07	rhickey	why not just (merge my-deftype {:foo true})?
12:08	chouser	presumably he wants nil for non-:foo fields
12:08	arohner	oh right, merge doesn't do what I want here
12:08	arohner	chouser: yes, that's the standard idiom I use. I forgot my deftype has {:foo nil}
12:09	arohner	I want to set :foo to true if it is nil
12:12	tmountain	would it be possible to rewrite this function to use recur? http://gist.github.com/289897
12:15	mabes	From what I can tell from the source of clojure.contrib.duck-streams/read-lines if an exception is thrown while reading a line the file reader is never closed.. Is that correct? http://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib/blob/2ae8ff46d348522efe9f96cfd31f6e9b6018cfdc/src/clojure/contrib/duck_streams.clj#L234
12:16	mabes	i.e. there is no try/finally form wrapping it
12:17	chouser	mabes: I think you're right, though you could still close the reader you passed in yourself.
12:18	mabes	chouser: I suppose that is why the doc string is very explicit about the reader only being closed when the wntire seq is consumed. I was just wondering if with-open could be used in this context or not..
12:20	chouser	with-open should be used instead of ever relying on read-lines to close the stream, IMO.
12:20	chouser	closing an already-closed thing generally does no harm
12:22	mabes	but read-lines only takes a filename, not a reader.. so I don't see how you could use them in conjunction
12:22	chouser	oh!
12:22	chouser	you're right. don't use read-lines.
12:23	mabes	heh, ok
12:23	chouser	you can use duck-streams/reader and with-open, and then line-seq
12:23	mabes	well, I'm writing my own csv-lines that wraps SuperCSV so I was modeling it after read-lines when I ran into the question of exceptions. I'll probably have my csv-lines take a reader to avoid a similar problem
12:24	chouser	(with-open [rdr (ds/reader "foo.txt")] (vec (map ... (line-seq rdr))))
12:25	mabes	ahh, I didn't know about line-seq.. I was only looking in duck-streams. Thanks for the tip
12:35	_schulte_	any recommendations for how to add a :timeout option to the shell-out sh method?
12:35	_schulte_	I've been playing around with the java example from http://stackoverflow.com/questions/808276/how-to-add-a-timeout-value-when-using-javas-runtime-exec but without much success
12:38	hiredman	~def shell-out
12:38	clojurebot	Excuse me?
12:38	hiredman	clojurebot: do it!
12:38	clojurebot	defmulti doc is ugly
12:39	_schulte_	def clojure.contrib.shell-out
12:40	_schulte_	nvrmind, just found a nice solution here http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1683680/clojure-with-timeout-macro
12:42	cgrand	cemerick: ping
12:52	mtd	can clojure tell me from which location a java class has been loaded?
12:54	the-kenny	mtd: Can java tell you that?
12:54	the-kenny	If so, clojure can that too :)
12:56	cemerick	cgrand: hola :-)
12:57	cemerick	mtd: you can use .getResource using the classfile location (e.g. "com/foo/bar/ClassName.class") to get a URL
12:57	cemerick	on your classloader or a Class instance, that is
13:00	the-kenny	Is it possible to use the same code to access things in resources/ while I'm at a repl? (Interactive, without creating a .jar first)
13:00	mtd	cemerick: thanks - what am I doing wrong with (. (java.lang.ClassLoader/getSystemClassLoader) getResource "/java/lang/ClassLoader.class")
13:00	the-kenny	Oh and.. can someone give me some code snippets? :)
13:00	mtd	(it evaluates to nil)
13:00	cemerick	the-kenny: if resources/ is a classpath root, sure
13:00	cemerick	mtd: drop the leading /
13:01	the-kenny	cemerick: I think lein adds it to the classpath
13:01	cemerick	I know nothing about lein, sorry.
13:01	mtd	cemerick: thanks (doh)
13:01	arohner	hrm, merge-with doesn't work with deftype maps
13:04	cgrand	cemerick: so what are you trying to do with those dynamic selectors?
13:04	the-kenny	Uhm.. I can't find resources/ in the classpath or any other property.. what does leiningen do with it?
13:07	cemerick	cgrand: I've been slowly glomming up a "merge-page" transformer that does the right things when composing two separate full-document snippets (e.g. rooted at <html>), and want to be able to specify where body content should be pulled from. It looks like I need to (eval (compile-selector ...)) in order to take selector values as args.
13:07	arohner	replacing (m k) with (get m k) in merge-with fixes it. should I open a bug?
13:07	cemerick	Eh, that doesn't make a lot of sense. Pasting shortly...
13:07	somnium	the-kenny: do you have a ./resources dir in project root?
13:07	the-kenny	somnium: Of course
13:07	the-kenny	somnium: But wait.. it doesn't has to do with leiningen.
13:07	somnium	the-kenny: hmm, using lein-swank?
13:07	the-kenny	I forgot that I use swank-clojure-project, not leiningen
13:07	somnium	I added a line to swank-clojure-project to add it
13:07	somnium	ah ok
13:08	the-kenny	somnium: Can you gist it for me?
13:08	somnium	sure
13:08	cemerick	lisppaste8: url?
13:08	cemerick	that bot's been dead for days
13:08	cemerick	cgrand: http://paste.lisp.org/display/94101
13:09	cemerick	cgrand: I msg'd you just to see if there was a better route I was missing.
13:10	mtd	Is there a recommended log4j version to use with clojure.contrib.logging? It doesn't work with 1.2.8 (old, probably): http://gist.github.com/289942
13:10	cemerick	mtd: 1.2.14 worked for me, last time I bothered with log4j
13:10	mtd	cemerick: thanks. Yeah, not my choice to use it unfort :(.
13:11	somnium	the-kenny: http://gist.github.com/289943
13:11	the-kenny	somnium: Awesome, thanks
13:14	the-kenny	ahhh my snippet works now.. never thought about issues with swank-clojure-project
13:15	cgrand	cemerick: the question is how did you fill body-selector?
13:16	cemerick	cgrand: fill?
13:16	cgrand	how do you set the value for the :body-selector key?
13:17	cgrand	why, at runtime, have you a literal selector?
13:17	cemerick	(merge-html other-snippet {:body-selector [:#someid]})
13:17	cemerick	hrm
13:18	cgrand	(merge-html other-snippet (selector {:body-selector [:#someid]})) and remove the compile-selector+eval
13:19	cgrand	or make merge-html a macro that expands to `(merge-html* ... (selector ~selector-spec))
13:20	somnium	the-kenny: do you have SBCL working with slime and clojure?
13:20	the-kenny	somnium: I had it working once.. But I never used it since I started with clojure
13:21	cgrand	cemerick: sorry pasted too fast: (merge-html other-snippet {:body-selector (selector [:#someid])})
13:21	the-kenny	You have to install the swank-backend by hand if you use slime from elpa
13:21	cemerick	cgrand: oh, sure, I saw that -- didn't think it was too friendly to have to have selector calls everywhere
13:21	cemerick	that's when I landed on the eval
13:22	cemerick	Making merge-html (or any transformer, really?) a macro seems like overkill.
13:23	cgrand	but is you selector written by the user or emitted by another function?
13:24	somnium	the-kenny: ah, ok. Im hesitant to screw with .emacs for something Ill rarely use. Hoping for a Clojure/CL/Slime success story
13:24	the-kenny	somnium: Shouldn't be very hard. I can gist two utility-functions to start sbcl and clojure without a prefix argument to M-x slime
13:24	cemerick	cgrand: could be either. I can easily imagine one wanting to have it as an attribute in the source html snippet.
13:25	the-kenny	Normally you would have to do C-u <something> M-x slime RET to get a list of possible backends for slime to start
13:25	somnium	the-kenny: great. Scheme (about 3 versions now) work with quack -- the more lips the merrier
13:25	somnium	s/lips/lisps
13:25	cgrand	the whole selector or a part of it? a selector can have dynamic parts?
13:26	the-kenny	somnium: Pushed your fix to my fork of swank-clojure :)
13:27	AWizzArd	Is there an ETA when build.clojure.org will be fixed again?
13:27	somnium	the-kenny: technomancy has really done wonders on the readability of swank-clojure.el
13:28	cemerick	cgrand: probably the whole thing. e.g. {:body-selector (-> other-snippet get-body :attrs :selector read-string)}
13:30	the-kenny	somnium: Yeah :)
13:31	cgrand	cemerick: so you are putting code back in the template, no?
13:32	cemerick	cgrand: I'm going to say that a vector isn't code. :-)
13:32	cemerick	I'm not doing that right this moment, but I can imagine that being a reasonable thing to do.
13:38	cgrand	cemerick: I try to understand the whole picture from your paste. So, what you are trying is to have a kind of pipeline, generating an html page and then transforming it. That's right?
13:40	cemerick	cgrand: The fundamental objective is to have a way to compose a variety of pages together. In my case, right now, it's enough to have the pages merged in a reasonable way -- generally appending body content, appending or prepending head content. It's working pretty well so far, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't running afoul with the eval.
13:42	cgrand	cemerick: given your requirements you can't skip the eval.
13:43	cemerick	cgrand: OK. Should I take that to mean you think my requirements/approach are misguided? ;-)
13:49	cgrand	cemerick: No I wouldn't dare to say that but it doesn't fit with the Enlive Way™ :-)
13:51	cemerick	cgrand: huh -- I figured I was on the One True Path this whole time :-/
13:51	cgrand	as you decompose a problem in smaller functions, a page should be decomposed in smaller snippets (which themselves can be decomposed etc.)
13:52	cemerick	That's what I've done, but I guess I'm still groping around for an elegant way to reassemble the whole.
13:52	cgrand	I understand
13:53	cgrand	I'm actually exploring two non-exclusive ways to ease this pain
13:54	cemerick	FWIW, I'm plenty giddy with how I've got things laid out now, so the heights of glee that I'll hit when you put out those blessed options are hard to imagine. :-)
13:54	cgrand	the first one is smart/auto/magic templates which don't require selectors
13:56	AWizzArd	I don't understand why you need to generate html at all cemerick :)
13:57	cemerick	AWizzArd: ?
13:57	AWizzArd	I mean, why not generate the html/gui on the client, all via Javascript?
13:57	AWizzArd	Then your Clojure code will be html free.
13:57	cemerick	well, my clojure code is html-free
13:57	AWizzArd	Instead you offer a rest interface
13:58	cemerick	well, I do that too
13:58	AWizzArd	good
13:58	cemerick	but a js-generated interface doesn't let me work with a designer (as easily), and I particularly dislike javascript itself
13:58	AWizzArd	and GWT and/or Dojo don't help here?
13:59	AWizzArd	Aah, you are not only the server side programmer but also responsible for the client side?
13:59	cemerick	GWT requires coding in Java, which I like only somewhat more than js
14:00	cemerick	and yup, I've got my hands in all the cookie jars
14:00	chouser	js is much less painful than java, imo
14:00	chouser	which is why gwt has confused me from the beginning
14:00	cemerick	I know Java too well for that to be the case for me.
14:01	AWizzArd	chouser: then Dojo or some other framework could be more interesting
14:01	cgrand	I too prefer js to java
14:01	cemerick	chouser: and don't get me started. ;-) I blew an hour yesterday figuring out how 'this' works in js, which it turns out I've not understood for years.
14:01	AWizzArd	but GWT offers you to step with a mature debugger through your JS program
14:02	chouser	cemerick: have you read or seen anything by Douglas Crockford?
14:02	AWizzArd	So, why do webbrowsers ship JS at all? They should natively run Clojure and our problems would be gone.
14:02	chouser	cemerick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQVTIJBZook
14:02	cemerick	chouser: the's the "good parts" guy, right?
14:03	chouser	but it's all moot. We'll compile clojure to js and all be happy.
14:03	AWizzArd	chouser: funny, recently i mailed with him
14:03	chouser	cemerick: yes
14:03	cgrand	cemerick: and the second way I'm exploring is to glue html fragments together with ring/compojure middlewares
14:04	cemerick	cgrand: both sound intriguing
14:05	cemerick	chouser: a clojure GWT is a likely maxima -- actually running clojure in the browser will be nifty, but the size of the resulting lib will be quite massive.
14:06	chouser	nope
14:06	chouser	< 5KB
14:06	chouser	(gzipped)
14:07	cemerick	heh
14:07	AWizzArd	hmm?
14:07	AWizzArd	What do you mean?
14:07	cemerick	chouser: lobby mozilla and apple now, and go all the way to 0
14:07	chouser	still too much for "mostly static" pages, but not at all bad for an "app"
14:07	chouser	cemerick: heh.
14:08	chouser	AWizzArd: I mean full clojure runtime support for javascript should be able to fit into a clojure.js.gz file of less than 5 kilobytes
14:08	AWizzArd	Do you talk about a Firefox plugin, or a clojure interpreter written in JS or just using an applet?
14:08	chouser	that may not include contrib or a compiler
14:09	cemerick	chouser: are you serious?
14:09	chouser	yes
14:09	cemerick	ballsy
14:09	cemerick	call, that is
14:09	chouser	heh. not really -- I already did it once.
14:09	AWizzArd	I am still a bit sceptical. Do you want to use an underlying infrastructure?
14:09	cemerick	chouser: I seem to remember clojurescript's repl being in the 300K area
14:09	chouser	oh
14:09	chouser	really?
14:09	stuartsierra	So the multiple profiles in the contrib POM breaks the Hudson build.
14:10	chouser	maybe I should check my numbers. :-)
14:10	chouser	uh
14:10	AWizzArd	stuartsierra: oh good, you found the place of the problem
14:10	cemerick	stuartsierra: how?
14:11	stuartsierra	Breaks dependencies somehow.
14:11	technomancy	are we going to get to the point where we only AOT the stuff that actually needs it in contrib?
14:11	cemerick	stuartsierra: can you paste a stack?
14:12	technomancy	I guess I should wait on that question until it's stable. =)
14:12	chouser	yep, sorry, mis-remembering. I should be careful about that. 25KB gzipped
14:12	cemerick	huh, I thought it was decidedly > 100
14:12	somnium	chouser: is that with a compressor?
14:13	chouser	130KB ungzipped
14:13	cemerick	ah, that was probably it
14:13	chouser	somnium: yes. YUI compressor, gzipped, without sorted collections or a compiler, 22KB
14:13	stuartsierra	technomancy: The maven plugin makes that pretty easy.
14:14	stuartsierra	maybe we should do that
14:15	technomancy	stuartsierra: it's certainly caused a lot of confusion in the past
14:15	cemerick	stuartsierra: FWIW, changing the activation of the local profile to <activation><property><name>clojure.jar</name></property></activation> is probably worthwhile
14:15	technomancy	stuartsierra: talking with replaca_ it sounds like at least the pprint stuff could be moved over to reify w/o AOT
14:16	technomancy	I think that would leave us with only a single gen-class requiring AOT, and that one might be able to be ported as well
14:16	chouser	I would love to see pprint without AOT. It was the only reason I started building contrib in the first place.
14:21	hiredman	:pre and :post are part of metadata?
14:22	chouser	metadata is how they're communicated to the compiler
14:22	hiredman	ok
14:23	hiredman	I see examples of :pre and :post like (defn f [x] {:pre [(> x 1)]} ...)
14:23	somnium	,(macroexpand-1 '(fn [x] {:pre [ (= x 42)]} 42 ))
14:23	clojurebot	(fn* ([x] (clojure.core/assert (= x 42)) 42))
14:24	hiredman	I thought metadata went before the arg list
14:24	hiredman	is it a fn metadata vs var metadata thing?
14:26	Hali_303	how can I debug clojure code?
14:26	Hali_303	(I mean step by step, not evaluating something in the REPL)
14:26	ohpauleez	hiredman: maybe, but the order I use is doc string, args, pre/post
14:26	somnium	in the source for fn it appears they expand straight to assert clauses
14:26	chouser	hm, I take that back. metadata is one of the ways to communicate :pre and :post -- metadata on the arglist vector
14:27	hiredman	hmmm
14:27	hiredman	I would rather just have one metadata map
14:27	chouser	and it's only communicating to the fn macro, which emits the assert code itself. compiler uninvolved
14:27	hiredman	anyway
14:34	hiredman	pre and post are in master right now, yes?
14:34	chouser	yes. 1.1
14:35	chouser	you can have a separate :pre/:post pair for each fn body
14:35	hiredman	hmmm
14:35	AWizzArd	what is pre/post?
14:35	chouser	so one for in the metadata of the whole fn or var wouldn't really work
14:36	chouser	AWizzArd: http://blog.fogus.me/2009/12/21/clojures-pre-and-post/
14:36	AWizzArd	seems it has become a fulltime job to follow all changes in Clojure :)
14:37	cemerick	I'm hoping the 1.2 release will be something we can sit on for a while. It's a helluva treadmill. ;-)
14:38	chouser	you can just pretend the new features don't exists. evil chuckle
14:39	cemerick	I actually can't think of anything pressing for us that isn't on HEAD now.
14:39	cemerick	oh, actually, serialization is broken for vectors (again), which I should submit a patch for
14:39	cemerick	but that's nothing compared to reify, deftype, etc., which is huge for us
14:40	hiredman	http://gist.github.com/290030 the (numerator 1) throws java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Integer cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Ratio instead of the expected assert exception
14:43	chouser	I get AssertionError here
14:43	hiredman	grrr
14:43	hiredman	hmmm
14:44	hiredman	if I load the functions into a repl I get the assertion failed, but if I put them in core.clj and build a jar I get the class cast exception
14:45	chouser	perhaps it's getting built with assert false
14:45	hiredman	Oh
14:45	hiredman	right
14:46	AWizzArd	with a :pre [(do (log-to disk) true)] it looks a bit like Common Lisps :before modifier
14:46	hiredman	:(
14:46	hiredman	AWizzArd: please no
14:46	AWizzArd	what?
14:46	clojurebot	What is meta
14:47	AWizzArd	I mena, "no" to what?
14:47	chouser	AWizzArd: until you compile with assert off
14:48	AWizzArd	Well, I would not want to misuse the :pre/:post thing for such cases, as it would be trivial to write a function or macro to add "before and after effects" to functions
15:00	duncanm	is there a version of cond in clojure that supports =>, like Scheme's cond?
15:00	chouser	duncanm: did you look at condp ?
15:01	duncanm	i did, i'll look closer
15:01	chouser	I'm not sure what scheme's => does, so condp may not help.
15:01	duncanm	oh
15:02	duncanm	chouser: in Scheme, you can write (cond (has-x?) => (lambda (x) ....))
15:02	duncanm	if HAS-X? doesn't return #f, the 'x' in the lambda gets bound to the return value of HAS-X?
15:02	chouser	where does that lambda's argument value come from?
15:02	chouser	ah
15:02	duncanm	from the return value of the test
15:02	duncanm	it's handy
15:03	AWizzArd	duncanm: the => is ignored and only for the readability?
15:03	chouser	(if-let [x (has-x?)] (dosomethingwith x) :fail)
15:03	duncanm	AWizzArd: well, the => is a hint to the COND macro to set up the binding in the lambda, right?
15:04	duncanm	otherwise, it'll just return a lambda without evaluating it
15:04	Chousuke	doesn't condp have just that?
15:04	Chousuke	:>> or something
15:04	duncanm	ahhh
15:04	duncanm	right
15:04	duncanm	test-expr :>> result-fn
15:05	chouser	duncanm: but if you have just one test case, look at if-let or when-let
15:06	_schulte_	chouser: speaking of, why is there no while-let?
15:07	Chousuke	probably because while is not that often needed :/
15:08	_schulte_	fair enough, it was easy enough to implement anyways
15:12	chouser	I've not yet found a use for 'while'
15:13	_schulte_	I used to for reading from a pipe in a shell script, not sure if there's a more idiomatic approach to that
15:13	hiredman	damn
15:13	chouser	I've generally used 'repeatedly' in such places
15:13	hiredman	pardon me
15:14	hiredman	gah
15:14	hiredman	I was just going to post the issue I created and gmail says the conversation is updated, and it's someone else with an issue and a patch
15:15	chouser	patch fight! may the best patch win!
15:15	LauJensen	Is the a variable I can use to (str "This file is called " special-var) ?
15:15	hiredman	clojurebot: ticket #255
15:15	clojurebot	{:url http://tinyurl.com/ydbmus8, :summary "add denominator and numerator fns for Ratio", :status :test, :priority :normal, :created-on "2010-01-29T20:08:36+00:00"}
15:15	chouser	file
15:15	hiredman	clojurebot: ticket #254
15:15	clojurebot	{:url http://tinyurl.com/ybk7bm9, :summary "Expose c.l.Ratio's accessors", :status :test, :priority :normal, :created-on "2010-01-29T20:05:24+00:00"}
15:16	kotarak	hiredman: I'm sorry...
15:16	hiredman	:(
15:16	kotarak	How can I mark my ticket as duplicate?
15:16	hiredman	I'll live, I guess
15:16	hiredman	kotarak: I marked mine as
15:17	kotarak	ok. But how? I didn't see (an obvious) checkbox. (But I haven't looked very hard..)
15:17	hiredman	kotarak: the associate button
15:17	chouser	ooh, hiredman's has hinted return value
15:17	LauJensen	chouser: Any others?
15:17	hiredman	you can then pick which kind of association
15:17	chouser	LauJensen: how many do you need?
15:18	LauJensen	1 that works
15:18	kotarak	Assemble is not intuitive. :(
15:18	LauJensen	chouser: Its probably a slime thing, I'll complain if it doesn't work when I deploy
15:19	chouser	hiredman's also has a test and correct docstring capitalization.
15:19	kotarak	hiredman: seems I should mark mine as duplicate: chouser
15:19	kotarak	:
15:19	kotarak	ooh, hiredman's has hinted return value
15:19	chouser	but kotarak's has a more meaning parameter name
15:19	chouser	meaningful
15:19	kotarak	2:1 for hiredman
15:20	chouser	It's close, but I'm going to have to vote for hiredman's. :-)
15:20	kotarak	chouser: may I add, that I chose consist docstring caps according to surrounding functions? Or this just a cheap argument?
15:20	chouser	heh, no, perfectly valid!
15:21	stuartsierra	Ok, pushed some changes to contrib's POM, should work in Hudson and also support builds with a local clojure.jar
15:21	kotarak	?
15:21	chouser	gvimdiff
15:22	kotarak	vim doesn't do it?
15:22	hiredman	browser is on the windows machine
15:22	hiredman	I would have to download the patch, and find an scp client, and copy it somewhere
15:22	stuartsierra	Also only AOT-compiles the namespaces that need it for gen-class.
15:22	LauJensen	chouser: file gives NO_SOURCE_PATH both in and out of SLIME
15:22	chouser	also cygwin.
15:23	kotarak	stuartsierra: +1
15:23	chouser	LauJensen: are you sure you have a source file?
15:23	hiredman	,file
15:23	clojurebot	"NO_SOURCE_PATH"
15:23	hiredman	,(doc file)
15:23	clojurebot	"; The path of the file being evaluated, as a String. Evaluates to nil when there is no file, eg. in the REPL."
15:24	hiredman	:(
15:24	duncanm	is there a way to find out if all my agents are done working?
15:25	chouser	LauJensen: try defining a macro like this: (defmacro this-file [] file)
15:25	LauJensen	k
15:25	chouser	LauJensen: then use (this-file) instead of file
15:25	duncanm	i have agents running a function that tail-calls itself when it's not finished, i wanna know if all the agents are done
15:25	chouser	duncanm: nothing automatic. promise/deliver might help
15:26	patrkris	question regarding vimclojure: how is it possible to kill a REPL instance? The documentation says to use the ",close" shortcut, but it doesn't work (it seems not even to be mapped).
15:26	chouser	oh, tail-calls as in (send agent ...) or as in (recur ...)?
15:26	kotarak	patrkris: type ,close in the repl as a command
15:26	LauJensen	chouser: using that macro and then using (this-file) returns 415 when I call (count (slurp (this-file))) - the file is 19 lines long
15:26	patrkris	kotarak: aaaah, thanks
15:26	duncanm	chouser: (send agent (fn [] .... (recur)))
15:26	LauJensen	so its good now
15:26	LauJensen	What made the difference?
15:27	kotarak	patrkris: , is not the leader. Then it would read <LocalLeader>close.
15:27	duncanm	chouser: i wanna know if they've all stopped polling
15:27	patrkris	kotarak: yeah, my mistake :)
15:27	patrkris	kotarak: how's the rewriting of clojureql coming along?
15:28	patrkris	kotarak: the frontend that is
15:28	kotarak	patrkris: hopefully well. Slowly working through the system. It starts taking shape.
15:28	chouser	LauJensen: file is the file currently being evaluated. if you're at a repl and call a function that uses file, that file is no longer being evaluated, something at the repl is. thus NO_SOURCE
15:28	patrkris	kotarak: will it be ready for 1.0 or will it come in a later release?
15:28	LauJensen	chouser: But I wasnt calling from the REPL though
15:28	kotarak	patrkris: It is planned for 1.0.
15:29	patrkris	kotarak: cool - looking forward
15:29	LauJensen	Just had a file which had (println file) in the middle of it, called that from a terminal
15:29	hiredman	LauJensen: that works for me
15:29	kotarak	patrkris: such a change must be done with a 0.x number. Later I would think twice about breaking code. But with a leading zero, we are still free to change everything.
15:29	hiredman	echo "(prn file)" > a.clj ; java clojure.main a.clj
15:29	chouser	however, when (this-file) is expanded, the macro's body is evaluated while the file that's using (this-file) is being evaluated, thus at the moment file is what you're expecting. this-file expands to the current value, a string, which then sits there in the compiled function until you need it.
15:30	patrkris	kotarak: yeah... i thought that was what you were going to do - or wait for a 2.x release.
15:30	chouser	duncanm: await
15:30	kotarak	or that. But I don't like libraries change completely with a new major release.
15:31	hiredman	kotarak: have you looked at arel?
15:31	kotarak	arel?
15:31	kotarak	(^^^ obviously not)
15:31	hiredman	new activerecord relational algebra thinger
15:32	hiredman	http://github.com/rails/arel
15:34	LauJensen	Is there something in contrib which handles timespan durations, or are people still hanging on to Yoda time ?
15:35	chouser	Joda is the future of time.
15:35	hiredman	jedis measure durations in yoda time
15:36	LauJensen	As I thought exactly
15:36	chouser	Yoda sets his watch to Jedi time
15:38	kotarak	hiredman: interesting. Similar to what we want to do. Though, I'd like to get away a little from SQL. Eg. I have a working prototype for a fleetdb backend.
15:38	kotarak	How do I delete a file attachment from a ticket?
15:40	hiredman	yeah, delay the move from some kind of abstract representation of a query on a dataset to a concrete query (as a string, or what have you) as long as possible
15:41	kotarak	We delay until we know the connection type. Allows all sorts of emulations. Eg. FULL JOIN. etc. For SQL it will then go into a string first and then a PreparedStatement. For FleetDB it is "compiled" directly into a query: {:select :coll {:where ..}}.
15:42	hiredman	have you looked at google's datastore at all?
15:46	kotarak	no
15:47	kotarak	But it looks ugly with the query strings. :\|
15:48	hiredman	eh? I've never used a query string
15:48	kotarak	Just reading about GqlQuery. But maybe that's very low-level.
15:49	hiredman	http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/java/javadoc/com/google/appengine/api/datastore/package-summary.html <-- bottom stuff is generally more how I've used (but from clojure)
15:51	hiredman	anyway, it's another schemaless store
15:56	jasapp	~seen somnium
15:56	clojurebot	somnium was last seen in #clojure, 90 minutes ago saying: in the source for fn it appears they expand straight to assert clauses
15:57	jasapp	somnium: you around?
16:06	kotarak	(doc into-array)
16:06	clojurebot	"([aseq] [type aseq]); Returns an array with components set to the values in aseq. The array's component type is type if provided, or the type of the first value in aseq if present, or Object. All values in aseq must be compatible with the component type. Class objects for the primitive types can be obtained using, e.g., Integer/TYPE."
16:59	LauJensen	Do we have something in contrib which mimics cl-format, like (p 55) "55 secs", (p 120) "2 minutes", ?
16:59	kotarak	pprint?
17:01	LauJensen	~source pprint
17:01	kotarak	(doc pprint)
17:01	clojurebot	"clojure.contrib.pprint/pprint;[[object] [object writer]]; Pretty print object to the optional output writer. If the writer is not provided, print the object to the currently bound value of out."
17:02	kotarak	(doc clojure.contrib.pprint)
17:02	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.contrib.pprint
17:03	LauJensen	Does look like it can handle time
17:04	kotarak	LauJensen: I think it's pretty complete.
17:04	kotarak	format on steroids.
17:04	LauJensen	hehe
17:04	LauJensen	I think Rich once noted that format and loop together were more complex than all of Clojure
17:05	kotarak	maybe adding for
17:07	LauJensen	In addition to pprint, Tom has this on Github http://github.com/tomfaulhaber/cl-format/tree/master/com/infolace/
17:09	LauJensen	Amazing to see a subset of format implemented in 1700+ lines of Clojure
17:12	raek	how does (alias) affect identity of qualified keywords?
17:13	raek	(alias 'pl 'se.raek.pyttelisp)
17:13	raek	(identical? :pl/foo :se.raek.pyttelisp/foo)
17:13	raek	=> false
17:13	hiredman	raek: use ::pl/foo
17:14	raek	hmmm, ok
17:14	hiredman	the double colon on a namespace qualified keyword will resolve through an alias
17:15	hiredman	on a non-qualified keyword it will qualify the keyword to the current namespace
17:15	hiredman	(at read time)
17:15	kotarak	LauJensen: I think the cl-format repo is from before contrib times.
17:16	raek	is namespace aliases only relevant at read time?
17:18	hiredman	raek: no
17:18	hiredman	well
17:18	hiredman	hmmm
17:19	kotarak	raek: you also can access things via introspection at runtime. Useful eg. for extracting completion information for an editor.
17:19	hiredman	raek: what are you trying to do?
17:19	raek	i'm making a lisp toy language
17:20	raek	and I wanted to use multimethods
17:20	hiredman	use the ::pl/foo thing
17:20	hiredman	,(require '[clojure.zip :as z])
17:20	clojurebot	nil
17:20	hiredman	,::z/foo
17:20	clojurebot	:clojure.zip/foo
17:21	raek	yes, that was what I were looking for
17:21	raek	"Child and parent can be either symbols or keywords, and must be namespace-qualified:"
17:21	raek	i din't want to write the namespace all the time in the repl
17:21	raek	so I made an alias
17:22	raek	that's when I found out that :pl/foo didn't mean what I thought
17:22	raek	anyway, thanks!
17:23	xp_prg	hi all, I am a mere mortal and don't understand how lisp writes other languages
17:23	xp_prg	can someone hold my hand and tell me?
17:23	xp_prg	I understand lamdba functions, functions writing other function via metaprogramming, functional languages in general
17:27	hiredman	xp_prg: what does "how lisp writes other languages" mean?
17:33	Hali_303	if I have a function that can take two kinds of arities [a b] and [a b & c], how to transfer control from the first to the second?
17:33	drewr	call that function with more than two args
17:33	hiredman	how do you normally transfer control between functions?
17:33	Hali_303	I've tried (functionname a b []), but that puts an empty vector into the list
17:34	hiredman	why are you trying to call the three argument body with two arguments?
17:34	kotarak	Hali_303: sounds you expected (apply fn-name a b []) ?
17:34	hiredman	well, 2+ argument body
17:36	Hali_303	my problem is that if c is not given (called only with two parameters), the three parameter function does not get selected (which is the default implementation)
17:37	hiredman	Hali_303: I don't think you understand how dispatching on arity works
17:39	Hali_303	see this http://pastebin.com/d5abec2c
17:40	Hali_303	the problem is, that in this case :children will be ([]) instead of []
17:40	Hali_303	when I use the two parameter version
17:40	hiredman	why do you have & c?
17:40	hiredman	or & children
17:41	Hali_303	so that the user can give children as parameters
17:41	Hali_303	but if he does not want, he can add later to the empty list
17:41	kotarak	Hali_303 You don't need the 2-param case.
17:42	hiredman	ok, so the excpected behaviour is (Form foo bar baz bleep bloop) and inside Form, children will be bound to (baz bleep bloop)
17:42	hiredman	why would you expect it to be any different if you replace baz with an empty vector?
17:43	Hali_303	kotarak: ahh indeed :)
17:44	Hali_303	hiredman: ok, now it sounds very logical :)
17:44	Hali_303	thanks!
18:06	Hali_303	is there a shorthand for (reduce str ?
18:06	Chousuke	no, but don't use reduce with str
18:06	Chousuke	use apply instead
18:07	Hali_303	oh, thanks
18:07	Chousuke	it's faster because str uses a stringbuilder internally
18:07	Hali_303	I see
18:08	DeusExPikachu	is there a good pathname handling lib?
18:13	technoma`	DeusExPikachu: I use contrib's java-utils/file
18:17	DeusExPikachu	technoma`, k
19:21	devlinsf	Hey everybody.
19:21	devlinsf	I'm getting a weird bug w/ 1.2
19:21	devlinsf	java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: clojure.lang.RestFn.<init>(I)V
19:21	devlinsf	Has anyone seen this before?
19:22	the-kenny	clojurebot: clojure.lang.RestFn
19:22	clojurebot	ant clean and rebuild contrib
19:23	devlinsf	Clojurebot knows common errors?
19:23	the-kenny	devlinsf: If we tell him the solutions, yes ;)
19:24	devlinsf	Wow
19:24	the-kenny	clojurebot: the answer is 42
19:24	clojurebot	Roger.
19:24	technoma`	devlinsf: that means you're using .class files compiled with an older version of clojure
19:24	the-kenny	clojurebot: the answer?
19:24	clojurebot	the answer is 42
19:24	technoma`	99% of the time it's contrib's fault
19:24	devlinsf	technoma`: Ah, great. Since you're here...
19:24	technoma`	though now that contrib uses actual version numbers it should become less of an issue
19:24	devlinsf	How do I solve w/ Lein?
19:24	devlinsf	Is there an "Edge Contrib"?
19:25	technoma`	devlinsf: if the version numbers for clojure and contrib match it shouldn't be an issue
19:25	devlinsf	So there's a 1.2 contrib?
19:25	technoma`	if it is, that would point to a bug in either contrib's pom or the config in build.clojure.org
19:25	technoma`	yep
19:26	the-kenny	devlinsf: Oh, and try lein clean && lein deps
19:26	the-kenny	so you have a "clean" checkout
19:26	devlinsf	Yeah, I've been cleaning
19:26	devlinsf	I do have a version mismatch
19:29	devlinsf	Okay, changed versions. Got a working jar
19:29	devlinsf	Back to hacking
19:30	devlinsf	Thanks all
19:43	_fogus_	.((juxt + *))
19:43	_fogus_	,((juxt + *))
19:43	clojurebot	[0 1]
20:07	AWizzArd	uh, the Oracle favicon.ico is now used in Suns Java documentation
20:10	qed	,(juxt + +)
20:10	clojurebot	#<core$juxt__4985$fn__4995 clojure.core$juxt__4985$fn__4995@c41d96>
20:10	qed	((juxt + +))
20:10	qed	,((juxt + +))
20:10	clojurebot	[0 0]
22:04	chouser	,((sorted-map (int 1) 2) (long 1))
22:04	clojurebot	2
22:04	chouser	rhickey: does this violate the java.util.Map contract?
22:05	chouser	,(instance? java.util.Map (sorted-map (int 1) 2))
22:05	clojurebot	true
22:21	ts00000	,(def foo {:a 1, :b 1, :c 1})
22:21	clojurebot	DENIED
22:21	ts00000	how do I come up with a foo that has :c filtered?
22:22	ts00000	I tried remove and filter but I think my syntax is wrong
22:22	ts00000	if I have a :c, I want it not there
22:22	rhickey	,(instance? java.util.SortedMap (sorted-map (int 1) 2))
22:22	clojurebot	false
22:35	chouser	rhickey: is that my answer?
22:35	chouser	ts00000: (dissoc {:a 1 :b 1 :c 1} :c)
22:43	ts00000	if I have keys in a map, and I want to look up the "prices" for those keys in a separate map named prices, should I do it with something like (for [x (keys map)] [prices x])? and if so, why does this return two results rather than one?
22:44	ts00000	like if the map is (def x {:a 1, :b 2, :c 3}) and prices is (def prices {:a 500.01, :b 500.02}) it returns two separate vectors
22:45	ts00000	but with the same values essentially
22:45	ts00000	it returns a vector per key?
22:47	chouser	are you trying to look up eack key in prices?
22:47	ts00000	yeah, pretty much
22:47	chouser	then you want (prices x) not [prices x]
22:48	ts00000	hmm
22:48	ts00000	ok, that works, but I was actually hoping for some kind of map as a result, but I think I can work with that
22:49	chouser	you want {1 500.01, 2 500.02} or something?
22:49	ts00000	well, i've got a great number of maps, and a single price table
22:50	ts00000	so I want to go through the maps, and come up with the prices, but I also need the quantities that are in the original map
22:50	ts00000	so the map has like :item qty
22:50	ts00000	:foo 300
22:50	ts00000	and I have a price for foo in the prices table
22:51	ts00000	but i'm looking for a clojurish way of basically doing some qty*price work and coming out with a number
23:14	rhickey	chouser: notreally