#clojure – 2009-12-08

2009-12-08

01:20	konr	Does you swing code look like a giant block of code with minor functions? I think something is wrong with mine.
01:22	arbscht	konr: I can't imagine how to interpret that description. can you paste an example instead?
01:38	twbray	Profiler tells me I'm spending all my time in java.lang.reflect.Array.get ... hmm...
01:39	dnolen	twbray: sounds like a missing type hint, you dereferencing a multi-dim array by chance?
01:39	hiredman	have you seen cgrand's post on arrays?
01:40	twbray	I suspect (let [ ... [client _ _ _ _ _ uri bstring status _ ref] (. #" " split line) ]
01:40	twbray	hiredman: Nope, but I think google just found it for me
01:40	hiredman	http://clj-me.cgrand.net/2009/08/06/what-warn-on-reflection-doesnt-tell-you-about-arrays/
01:40	hiredman	you google faster than me
01:41	twbray	I've also been getting good results with hints
01:43	hiredman	oh
01:43	hiredman	I see the destructuring let
01:43	twbray	#<CompilerException java.lang.Exception: Name conflict, can't def warn-on-reflection because namespace: user refers to:#'clojure.core/warn-on-reflection (NO_SOURCE_FILE:9)>
01:44	hiredman	set!
01:44	hiredman	,(set! warn-on-reflection true)
01:44	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalStateException: Can't change/establish root binding of: warn-on-reflection with set
01:44	hiredman	anyway, it will work at the repl
01:44	dnolen	twbray: wow, I didn't know that you could destructure a java array into a vector, I suspect you're right there's reflection happening there tho.
01:45	hiredman	the repl is run inside a binding where bindings for a bunch of stuff are setup so you can set! them
01:45	hiredman	destructuring is actually a pretty complex macro
01:45	hiredman	it's neat, but I would not bet the farm on it
01:46	twbray	Previously I was doing (let [ fields (. #" " split line) client (get fields 0) uri (get fields 6) etc ] changing to destruct had no effect on profiler output. Digging
01:46	hiredman	huh
01:46	twbray	40% of all CPU going into java.lang.reflect.Array.get, snicker
01:46	hiredman	no effect is good I guess...
01:47	hiredman	I think you'd use aget + a type hint instead of get
01:48	hiredman	now you … half the … etc
01:49	twbray	OK, will wire in aget, brb
01:52	dnolen	twbray: http://gist.github.com/251463
01:53	dnolen	on my machine destructure is considerably slower, ~250ms vs ~150ms for that microbenchmark
01:53	twbray	dnolen: thanks
01:53	dnolen	because that's a java method call to split the string you don't need to type hint
01:55	twbray	When you get reflection perf hogs, it's usually pretty obvious int he -Xprof output
01:56	twbray	Hah, switching to aget made java.lang.reflect.Array.get go away :) ...
01:56	hiredman	:D
01:56	hiredman	magic
01:56	twbray	... but bought me a reflection problem, java.lang.Class.forName0 all over the -Xprof :(
01:56	twbray	Need to find the right type hing
01:56	twbray	hint
01:56	twbray	Shouldn't be too hard
02:00	_ato	IIRC you need to hint both the array and the index
02:00	_ato	like (aget #^objects my-array (int i))
02:01	hiredman	magic
02:01	hiredman	er
02:01	hiredman	_ato: the array is in a local and is the result of a java call, so the array type will propagate
02:02	_ato	ah cool.
02:08	twbray	hiredman: not sure... I just decorated all those aget values with type-hints and it made a big difference
02:08	twbray	e.g. #^String uri (aget fields 6)
02:14	hiredman	twbray: ok
02:17	dnolen	twbray: hiredman: is mostly right, types do flow down let bindings, the issue is the boxing of values returned from functions.
02:17	dnolen	that is the return value of aget is boxed, and needs to be type hinted if you want to do something fast with that return value
02:18	twbray	dnolen: OK. Not pretending I understand why that needs to be the case.
02:19	dnolen	twbray: simple rule, java methods return type to a let binding. Clojure functions won't. aget is a clojure function whereas (. #" " split ...) is a java method.
02:20	dnolen	thus you don't need to typehint the return value of (. #" " split ...), but you have to type hint aget
02:20	dnolen	the return value of aget.
02:20	twbray	dnolen: That's a little surprising since aget exists specifically to reach into Java arrays
02:22	_ato	but isn't aget inlined?
02:22	dnolen	twbray: it is, aget is a weird, it's an "inline" fn, not sure I really understand it all that well myself. but what I've described is the basic mental model for type-hinting.
02:22	_ato	:inline (fn [a i] `(. clojure.lang.RT (aget ~a ~i))
02:23	hiredman	hmmm
02:23	_ato	you think it could at least typehint it's second argument as an int
02:23	_ato	:/
02:23	twbray	Also btw warn-on-reflection didn't
02:25	dnolen	order of magnitude difference: http://gist.github.com/251483
02:25	_ato	I guess it's not warning on reflection because of this: static public Object aget(Object xs, int i){ return Reflector.prepRet(Array.get(xs, i)); }
02:25	hiredman	twbray: yes, as cgrand mentioned in his post, warn-on-reflection doesn't catch array reflection
02:26	twbray	btw, thanks for the cgrand pointer; hadn't noticed him previously
02:26	dnolen	cgrand == crazy clojure hacker
02:26	hiredman	pitty about the font
02:27	twbray	Emacs is good for lots of things but not my fave for reading Java
02:28	hiredman	this is the second time I've installed emacs
02:28	twbray	hiredman: you on a mac? Aquamacs ftw
02:28	hiredman	the first time I just sort of stared at the empty editor for a while and then went back to vim
02:28	hiredman	freebsd
02:29	hiredman	a few clicks on emacswiki seems to indicate changing the font to dejavu sans mono is going to be a big deal
02:29	slyrus	twbray: the nextstep build isn't bad either
02:31	twbray	A line of output from "top" on one of those Sun multicore boxes, when Clojure's running hot:
02:31	twbray	26278 twbray 130 40 0 5195M 5164M cpu 380:40 2815% java
02:32	hiredman	:D
02:32	hiredman	man, I want one of those
02:32	twbray	well, they're a little weird to work with. But when you get the code tuned, they can grind through an amazing amount of work. Good I/O too.
02:40	_ato	hiredman: btw add this to your emacs configuration: (set-default-font "DejaVu Sans Mono-11")
02:41	_ato	(assuming you're using emacs 23, older versions probably need that awful font syntax with all the dashes in it)
02:41	twbray	recent WF run, reasonably well-tuned CLojure code right now, 24 minutes elapsed, 10+ hours of CPU time.
02:42	_ato	--dejavu sans mono------------* or whatever it is
02:42	hiredman	_ato: .emacs.el or .emacs or ...?
02:42	twbray	hiredman: ~/.emacs
02:42	_ato	hiredman: .emacs if you're not using the emacs starter kit
02:43	hiredman	my pinky is already killing me
02:43	hiredman	what a rough life
02:43	_ato	yeah, most emacs users swap ctrl and caps-lock
02:44	JAS415	really?
02:44	twbray	On the mac, you can set caps-lock=>ctrl globally for all apps. Very helpful.
02:44	polypus	yeah or just leave ctrl as ctrl and change caps
02:45	JAS415	IN CASE YOU GET ANGRY :-)
02:45	hiredman	_ato: just did that
02:45	hiredman	I had capslock mapped to compose
02:45	JAS415	or for writing really old lisp code
02:45	hiredman	so I could make accented i's
02:46	hiredman	clojurebot: emacs?
02:46	clojurebot	emacs is best configured for Clojure with instructions at http://technomancy.us/126
02:48	hiredman	C-j is eval elisp?
02:48	_ato	only in scratch, I use C-x C-e as that works when editing .el files and such
02:49	_ato	and C-x C-e is eval clojure code in a .clj file as well
02:50	_ato	actually maybe not even in scratch
02:50	_ato	C-j is newline for me
02:51	_ato	ah.. looks like in a fresh install C-j is eval and insert the output into the buffer
02:54	polypus	you can also C-c v for eval buffer as elisp. i set slime C-c v to slime-eval-lisp as well
02:54	hiredman	hmmm
02:55	JAS415	you can also bind it however you want
02:55	polypus	sure
02:58	_ato	I'm totally useless when it comes to using other people's PCs these days. I keep hitting Capslock-a instead of Home and such.
03:02	hiredman	ugh, paste inserts where the mouse is
03:02	hiredman	(middle button paste in X)
03:04	_ato	I usually use the keyboard to paste (C-y)
03:04	_ato	you might need: (setq x-select-enable-clipboard t)
03:04	_ato	to make it paste stuff that's been selected
03:06	_ato	hiredman: looks like (setq mouse-yank-at-point t) might do the trick
03:06	_ato	that makes the middle-mouse paste at the cursor location
03:06	_ato	instead of the mouse pointer location
03:08	hiredman	I see
03:08	hiredman	C-j seems to somehow be bound to both newline and eval elisp
03:09	hiredman	doesn't work out well
03:09	_ato	you can check what function a key press is bound to with: C-h k <keypress>
03:10	_ato	so like C-h k C-j
03:11	hiredman	M-:
03:11	hiredman	excellent
03:12	hiredman	says newline-and-indent, but in the scratch buffer it also does eval
03:13	hiredman	yay! color-theme
03:32	triyo	I have a leiningen project.clj file where my project name is nutrifact and my version is ""0.1.0-SNAPSHOT". When I run "lein jar" or "lein uberjar" it builds a nutrifact.jar instead of the desired snapshot ver as per my project.clj. Am I issing something?
03:33	triyo	so should be nutrifact-0.1.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
03:34	hiredman	hmmm
03:34	hiredman	is there rainbow parens for emacs?
03:37	_ato	not built-in as far as I know. There's this: http://nschum.de/src/emacs/highlight-parentheses/
03:38	eevar2	do you get rainbow parens for anything but emacs?
03:41	hiredman	vimclojure
03:41	_ato	triyo: you can do "lein jar whatever-you-like.jar" to call the jar something different if you want
03:42	_ato	by default lein just calls it project-name.jar
03:42	_ato	ls
03:42	hiredman	_ato: close
03:42	hiredman	I guess that is close enough :/
03:43	triyo	_ato: do you run the stable ver of leiningen or latest from master repo?
03:45	_ato	triyo: I run with master because I code on leiningen a fair bit
03:46	hamza	guys, is there a repeat like function that will execute a function repeatedly?
03:47	_ato	,(take 10 (repeatedly rand))
03:47	clojurebot	(0.8813602039501953 0.3653268991300669 0.6732810028855468 0.3679588982322579 0.6001436027276109 0.6081804356412707 0.7722853209560046 0.6811660555016636 0.18603216492432617 0.7955644218452835)
03:48	hamza	lol, so the answer was in my question, :) thanks...
05:21	adityo	,'(nil 1 2 nil)
05:21	clojurebot	(nil 1 2 nil)
05:21	adityo	how do i remove the nils from this list
05:22	_ato	,(remove nil? '(nil 1 2 nil))
05:22	clojurebot	(1 2)
05:23	adityo	damn, how did i miss nil?
05:23	adityo	thanks _ato
05:51	scellus	adityo: you missed it because it was removed? :)
05:54	adityo	:)
06:10	LauJensen	Anybody here running Mac OSX who can spend 25 secs with me in priv? :)
06:16	AWizzArd	github down?
06:17	_ato	github's up for me
06:17	defn	How do I add compojure's jar and deps/*.jar to my classpath in my REPL?
06:18	AWizzArd	defn: you want to add it while the jvm is already running?
06:19	AWizzArd	_ato: thx for checking
06:21	_ato	I'd create a directory for your project, copy all the jars you need (including swank-clojure and clojure.jar and contrib) into project/lib and then use M-x swank-clojure-project
06:21	defn	i have a swank-clojure-import
06:21	_ato	ah, you must have a pre 1.0 version of swank-clojure then
06:22	_ato	if you're using java 6 then adding ".../compojure.jar" and "deps/*" to swank-clojure-extra-classpaths should work
06:22	defn	do you run jochu's?
06:23	defn	i had trouble with technomancy's vers. with my current config so i switched back to jochu's
06:23	_ato	I run technomancy's with no config
06:24	defn	but that forces you to run it on projects right?
06:24	defn	do you have it via elpa?
06:24	hoeck1	defn: have you restarted emacs?
06:24	defn	hoeck1: no, i opened a new REPL, d'oh, one sec
06:25	hoeck1	jochu's swank-clojure only builds the classpath on an emacs restart
06:25	_ato	it doesn't force you to run it on projects, you can use M-x slime as well
06:25	defn	hoeck1: that fixed it thanks
06:25	defn	_ato: did you get it via elpa?
06:26	_ato	I think so
06:26	_ato	I've tried both ways
06:26	_ato	I think I'm currently with ELPA
06:38	defn	bah wtf
06:38	defn	i removed the init.el entry for my clojure.el stuff -- installed swank-clojure, clojure-mode, etc. via ELPA
06:39	defn	and now it complains when i start emacs that it cannot load swank-clojure, cant find it
06:39	defn	Debugger entered--Lisp error: (file-error "Searching for program" "No such file or directory" "lisp")
06:39	LauJensen	defn, sounds like you need (setq swank-clojure-binary "/some/shell/script.sh") ?
06:41	defn	LauJensen: i dont even get that far
06:41	defn	it wont load swank
06:43	_ato	stupid ELPA
06:43	_ato	make sure you have nothing to do with swank-clojure in your init.el (no requires or anything)
06:44	defn	yeah im pretty sure i dont, maybe this is cached from loaddefs.el or something?
06:44	LauJensen	defn, I posted a 'get started with clojure' link on my blog once, want me to dig it up ?
06:44	_ato	:/
06:45	defn	heh this is embarrassing
06:45	LauJensen	oh, youre not a noob? :) Sorry
06:45	defn	i think i fixed it
06:45	_ato	I guess have a poke in ~/.emacs.d/elpa/swank-clojure-1.0 and make sure the files are there
06:45	_ato	ah, cool
06:45	defn	i think i just needed slime-repl from ELPA
06:45	defn	i figured that'd be a dependency or something
06:45	_ato	yeah it should have been
06:45	_ato	strange
06:46	defn	swank-clojure-project still seems broken
06:47	_ato	what does it do?
06:47	defn	just keeps polling on the project dir
06:47	defn	until i have to abort with slime-abort-connection
06:48	_ato	you copied in clojure.jar clojure-contrib.jar and swank-clojure.jar right?
06:48	defn	i thought it copied those automatically for you
06:48	_ato	nah
06:48	_ato	causes you might want to use different versions
06:49	defn	right, just thought if it couldnt find them that it'd give you something to work with
06:49	_ato	if you want to use the versions it downloaded they're in ~/.swank-clojure
06:49	defn	but ok
06:49	defn	thanks :)
06:50	_ato	that worked?
06:50	_ato	yeah it'd be nice if it did do it for you if they aren't there, but I guess it can't reliably detect if they're there or not, cause they could be named something different
06:52	LauJensen	I thought it was possible just to install clojure-mode via Elpa, and then M-x clojure-mode-install, which would pull down everything, build and configure?
06:52	adityo	LauJensen: whats the link for your blog
06:52	LauJensen	http://www.bestinclass.dk
06:52	LauJensen	Link the right-most pane named 'blog'
06:53	LauJensen	In this context, link means click :)
06:54	_ato	I think clojure-mode-install is now deprecated in favor of ELPA
06:54	somnium	I got the latest version to install itself only after putting in a clean .emacs.d and removing my .clojure dir. It works great now.
06:55	somnium	_ato: is it possible to use clojure-new as a dep with lein/clojars?
06:55	adityo	yes i can confirm from technomancy's blog post that clojure-install is deprecated
06:56	LauJensen	Ah ok
06:56	LauJensen	Wonder why, I've seen it work quite well on both Linux and sigh Windows :)
06:56	adityo	http://technomancy.us/126
07:02	defn	that's awesome (leiningen)
07:02	_ato	he's just using the compojure jar I uploaded, that's why it's org.clojars.ato/compojure
07:02	defn	omg so glad i went through the minor headache of switching to technomancy's version
07:02	_ato	and yes leiningen is pretty nice
07:02	defn	actually being able to tab complete clojure.contrib.* stuff
07:03	_ato	:)
07:03	micampe	oh gosh. every time I come here I learn a new tool I should learn.
07:05	micampe	so, since I always hated ant and maven, I think I'm going to look at leiningen now
07:05	defn	no need to copy all of the stuff i need by hand, I can just setup package.clj and hit `lein deps`
07:10	Chousuke	hm, the font at clojars.org is huge
07:10	Chousuke	maybe my resolution is a bit too small :P
07:10	Chousuke	But it's a refreshing change. Usually I get to complain about the font being too small.
07:10	_ato	yeah I made it huge on purpose
07:11	_ato	though maybe it's too huge, probably some of the longer package names will go off the edge of the page
07:14	Chousuke	_ato: at 80% zoom the font size looks fine to me. Hmm.
07:23	interferon	anyone know of good clojure blogs?
07:25	liebke	interferon: a good place to start is http://disclojure.org/ and then check its blogroll
07:32	interferon	thanks
08:40	fliebel	How can I find out if the function supplied to a macro is really a function?
08:40	fliebel	,(fn? (first '(print "hi")))
08:40	clojurebot	false
08:40	_fogus_	,(fn? (first `(print "hi")))
08:40	clojurebot	false
08:41	_fogus_	hmm
08:41	fliebel	I tried symbol, but that returns true, even for jerhlaf, or skdjbl.
08:42	fliebel	Are there by chance Clojure functions named like that? :D
08:44	arbscht	,(fn? (var-get (resolve (first '(print "hi")))))
08:44	clojurebot	true
08:44	_fogus_	D'oh!! Of course.
08:44	Chousuke	fliebel: unless it's a function defined with def though, you can't.
08:44	Chousuke	also, var-get = deref = @ :)
08:45	fliebel	thanks
08:45	fliebel	and resolve?
08:45	Chousuke	resolve resolves a symbol to a var
08:45	arbscht	,(doc resolve)
08:45	clojurebot	"([sym]); same as (ns-resolve ns symbol)"
08:45	arbscht	...
08:46	arbscht	,(doc ns-resolve)
08:46	clojurebot	"([ns sym]); Returns the var or Class to which a symbol will be resolved in the namespace, else nil. Note that if the symbol is fully qualified, the var/Class to which it resolves need not be present in the namespace."
08:47	fliebel	so what you are doing is tracing down and following all the references until you find the actual fn.
08:47	fliebel	What if the user supplied a #function?
08:47	Chousuke	then it won't work
08:47	Chousuke	macros have no access to runtime data.
08:48	fliebel	ah, ok
08:49	fliebel	How suitable it a Scheme mode in my editor for editing Clojure? It does not support CL or Clojure.
08:49	Chousuke	which editor?
08:49	arbscht	Chousuke: macros?
08:49	fliebel	I tried Netbeans, but that did not work for me, I'm using Komodo Edit.
08:50	Chousuke	arbscht: yes?
08:50	arbscht	Chousuke: I don't see any macros
08:50	_fogus_	http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/
08:51	Chousuke	arbscht: the original question was how to tell if a macro was passed a function
08:51	arbscht	oh!
08:51	arbscht	:-)
08:51	Chousuke	which is not possible in the general case because macros operate with symbols and lists, not functions :/
08:53	arbscht	fliebel: I would not expect it to be suitable. it won't know conventional indentation rules, for example
08:57	cp2	mornin'
08:57	cp2	clojurebot: good morning ^_^
08:57	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
09:00	fliebel	Are there other Mac editors suitable for editing Clojure except emacs and Netbeans?
09:01	cp2	vim :D
09:01	cp2	eclipse has an alright clojure plugin, intellij has a nicer clojure plugin and there is a free/open source version now
09:02	cp2	although ive found that you really dont need a java ide for writing clojure, and that the overhead is unnecessary because of the lack of features of the plugins
09:03	cp2	my advice is stick with vim or emacs, and get really good at using them
09:05	cp2	er, them being the one you choose of course
09:05	cemerick	man, two editor discussions in two days :-/
09:05	cp2	cemerick: heh, im being careful to not say 'x is better than y'
09:05	chouser	people keep asking. shrug
09:06	chouser	I guess there could be a page we could just point to.
09:06	rhickey	how are people making out with latest new branch? (fine-grained locals clearing)
09:06	chouser	hey look, there is: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/257333/clojure-editor-ide-recommendations-on-os-x
09:06	cemerick	The best answer is almost always going to be "whatever you're using now for everything else"; besides that, it's all personal preference.
09:07	cemerick	I've found SO to be a ghetto for the most part.
09:11	chouser	rhickey: have been using the latest 'new' branch for misc. light clojure activity -- nothing to report.
09:11	rhickey	chouser: no news is good news :)
09:12	chouser	exactly
09:12	chouser	I don't have much code sitting around that used to blow the heap to try out now.
09:13	cp2	rhickey: but what if they shot the messenger?
09:13	rhickey	chouser: yeah, I have to go back through and find some old problem reports in the group
09:13	chouser	hm. thrilling.
09:14	rhickey	there was some destructuring thing
09:15	chouser	I think I have it
09:16	chouser	(defn loop-test [] (loop [[head & tail] (repeat 1)] (recur tail)))
09:16	rhickey	might have been something jdk 6 could figure out that 5 couldn't
09:16	chouser	yes, that's this one
09:17	somnium	is (:field my-type) still equivalent to (.field my-type)?
09:20	chouser	somnium: in the 'new' branch when my-type is a deftype instance, they should be equally fast once hotspot is done doing what it does.
09:20	somnium	have type with field 'then', (.then type) returns the value, (:then type) returns #<Type$__lookup__then ...>
09:20	chouser	I think. :-)
09:20	somnium	yeah, ^^ this odd behavior just now
09:20	chouser	somnium: are you sure you've got the latest 'new'?
09:21	somnium	a few days old I think
09:21	chouser	yeah, better upgrade. the edge bleeds, gotta keep moving.
09:22	somnium	I saw it seemed to break swank yesterday so Ive been holding off
09:22	somnium	can anyone confirm?
09:22	chouser	ah. I think that's been fixed now.
09:22	AWizzArd	is there a new behaviour in deftype? I upgraded today. Now I do: (deftype foo [a b]) and then (:b (foo 10 20)) ==> nil
09:22	chouser	somnium: hang on -- booting the computer that has 'new'...
09:23	somnium	AWizzArd: does (.b foo) work?
09:23	AWizzArd	yes
09:24	chouser	hmm
09:24	chouser	I'm seeing AWizzArd's bug.
09:24	AWizzArd	Now (.b (foo 10 20)) ==> 20, but I am very sure that (:b (foo 10 20)) ==> 20 also before
09:25	chouser	but not somnium's -- nil returns, not lookup methods.
09:26	chouser	somnium: you probably want version a3e95cf
09:26	somnium	at least once (:a foo) worked here, then suddenly seemed to break
09:26	chouser	somnium: yes, that was a bug that was fixed
09:26	rhickey	somnium: that's fixed, move on
09:26	somnium	thanks
09:27	AWizzArd	So, what is official now? Should I wait for an update so that (:b my-foo) ==> 20 again, or should I change my code to (.b my-foo) now?
09:27	chouser	AWizzArd: "official"? Is 1.0 :-)
09:27	AWizzArd	official for alpha I mean :-)
09:27	rhickey	AWizzArd: don't use (.b, I'm looking at your problem
09:28	AWizzArd	I want to use the New branch, because it is a) very helpful and b) I want to help by alpha testing it.
09:32	pjstadig	emacs question
09:32	pjstadig	M-x swank-clojure-project
09:32	pjstadig	the class path is missing clojure and swank-clojure
09:33	pjstadig	is this intended? or a bug?
09:35	AWizzArd	You should put swank on your classpath.
09:35	AWizzArd	Some months ago this was not needed.
09:37	AWizzArd	And the slime version that you use should not be too new.
09:37	pjstadig	i installed with elpa
09:37	clojurebot	elpa is a package manager for Emacs: http://tromey.com/elpa
09:37	pjstadig	thank you clojurebot, i knew that
09:37	pjstadig	:)
09:38	hipertracker	(+ (/ 1 3) (/ 1 2)) -> 5/6 zajebiste
09:38	pjstadig	everything works fine
09:38	AWizzArd	Currently there is a problem, the new slime does not work anymore. I think it has to do with names of symbols. Slime now uses symbols that begin with a digit, or it uses symbols that contain spaces, something like that.
09:38	AWizzArd	And now there is the discussion who should care about that: slime or the clojure side ;)
09:38	AWizzArd	(in swank-clojure)
09:39	pjstadig	i thought M-x swank-clojure-project would be cool, but it doesn't load slime or clojure which i guess is probably a better way of doing it
09:39	pjstadig	then you can control what version of clojure, etc. you use by putting them in lib
09:39	AWizzArd	It is also a bit unfortunate that the new slime needs an internet connection. People behind a firewall won't be able to install slime+clojure this way.
09:40	devlinsf	hipertracker: Let clojurebot do the work for you
09:41	devlinsf	,(+ (/ 1 3) (/ 1 2))
09:41	clojurebot	5/6
09:41	hipertracker	devlinsf: sorry, wrong window.
09:41	devlinsf	hipertracker: n/p
09:42	AWizzArd	,(+ 1/3 1/2)
09:42	clojurebot	5/6
09:43	chouser	,1/3+1/2
09:43	clojurebot	Invalid number: 1/3+1/2
09:45	AWizzArd	i think symbol names must not start with digits
09:52	devlinsf	Hey, is there a way to force division to be a double through a binding? What I specifically want to AVOID is (double (/ 1 3))
09:52	devlinsf	nm - just answer my own question at the REPL
09:52	devlinsf	,(/ 1.0 3)
09:52	clojurebot	0.3333333333333333
09:54	AWizzArd	,(let [a 2, b 3] [(class a) (class b) (/ a b)])
09:54	clojurebot	[java.lang.Integer java.lang.Integer 2/3]
09:54	AWizzArd	if it is a function parameter you should convert it at one point to a double or BigDecimal
09:54	fliebel	Why does Clojure not support 1+1 etc, but does support 3/2?
09:55	AWizzArd	because 3/2 is not a function call
09:55	AWizzArd	it is the notation for rational numbers
09:55	cemerick	fliebel: because the former is an operation, the latter is a value
09:55	chouser	fliebel: 3/2 is a literal form of a Ratio instance. like "foo" is a String
09:55	_fogus_	fliebel: It's read: 3 over 2
09:56	AWizzArd	,12E+2
09:56	clojurebot	1200.0
09:56	fliebel	strange thing to make a "devision" a literal, although it might save some headaches.
09:57	AWizzArd	it is not a division
09:57	cemerick	it's not division
09:57	AWizzArd	it is the notation for a number
09:57	pjstadig	for an exact number
09:57	pjstadig	floating points aren't exact
09:57	cemerick	,1/3
09:57	clojurebot	1/3
09:57	cemerick	,(float 1/3)
09:57	clojurebot	0.33333334
09:57	AWizzArd	helpfull for us poor humans who can't work successfully with sequences of 0s and 1s
09:58	cemerick	the latter is division
09:58	devlinsf	Right, they're only good for a relative error of 1E-16
09:58	cemerick	or, it makes the division represented by the ratio concrete
09:58	fliebel	,(* 22/7 2)
09:58	clojurebot	44/7
09:58	devlinsf	,pi
09:58	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: pi in this context
09:58	AWizzArd	,Math/PI
09:58	clojurebot	3.141592653589793
09:59	devlinsf	Ah
09:59	cemerick	which is defined as a double, I think.
09:59	devlinsf	,(class Math/PI)
09:59	clojurebot	java.lang.Double
09:59	fliebel	Would be cool to have PI as a… something
09:59	devlinsf	A what?
09:59	cemerick	22/7 is always just 22/7, unless you explicitly force it into a float or double
10:00	esj	22/7 is not pi
10:00	AWizzArd	,(rationalize Math/PI)
10:00	clojurebot	3141592653589793/1000000000000000
10:00	fliebel	Well, something that is more precise...
10:00	esj	mathematical impossibility
10:00	cemerick	yeah, closer than Math/PI
10:00	devlinsf	Thank you esj
10:01	devlinsf	Please, Math/PI is great as a double
10:01	fliebel	I won't launch a rocket with double persoanly, but I guess it's okay in 99.9999% of the time.
10:02	AWizzArd	and ifs someone cares then he/she can have pi as a rational number, which will not be less exact
10:02	esj	i suppose using the series representation as a lazy sequence is possible
10:02	devlinsf	fliebel: Ever here of Apollo?
10:03	fliebel	devlinsf: Yea, I know they launched that with less computer power than in my iPod….
10:03	devlinsf	fliebel: study analog & digital controls sometime. You'll realize that the limits of double are nothing compared to the limits of the algorithms
10:03	AWizzArd	Just (def π 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406286208998628034825342117067M)
10:03	devlinsf	Perfect!
10:03	AWizzArd	that's the first 100 digits, as a BigDecimal
10:04	devlinsf	Totally useless in production, buyt perfect
10:04	AWizzArd	;-)
10:04	rhickey	AWizzArd: fixed
10:04	AWizzArd	wow rhickey, this is very nice thanks handshaking
10:05	rhickey	was actually a problem mwith case
10:06	shr3kst3r	tests are a fine idea
10:07	_fogus_	fliebel: What does this mean? "compared to the limits of the algorithms"
10:07	devlinsf	_fogus_: right here
10:07	Licenser_	Oha odd thing, I've a server socket, created with create-server, now when I connect to it via telnet and type in stuff it works fine, connecting with a java.net.Socket and writing stuff to it works too but when the socket is closed the line seq created from the server crasehs with a runtime exception :/ (Exception in thread "Thread-1" java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.net.SocketException: Software caused connection abort: recv fa
10:08	Licenser_	any ideas cause I am not entirely sure what to make from this
10:08	fliebel	_fogus_: no idea…
10:08	_fogus_	devlinsf: Sorry, clicked wrong name
10:08	devlinsf	WARNING - MATH CONTENT
10:08	_fogus_	devlinsf: Bring it on ;)
10:10	devlinsf	_fogus_: Forgive the following question. You've studied calculus before, right?
10:11	_fogus_	devlinsf: Once upon a time
10:12	devlinsf	devlinsf: Perfect. That will be enough. I will be using the process of integration as an example
10:12	devlinsf	_focus_: Sorry, wrong name :)
10:12	devlinsf	_fogus_ :Ah!
10:12	Licenser_	I knid of have tom think of fungus o.O
10:12	devlinsf	Okay, forget it
10:13	devlinsf	You have certain integrals that don't have a solution
10:13	devlinsf	but as an engineer one needs to solve them all the time
10:14	devlinsf	For example, consider the Gaussian function, (fn[x] (Math/exp (* -1 x x)))
10:14	angerman	how do I add custom jar's to leiningen?
10:14	devlinsf	def that as gauss
10:15	_fogus_	,(def gauss (fn[x] (Math/exp (* -1 x x))))
10:15	clojurebot	DENIED
10:15	_fogus_	:(
10:15	AWizzArd	use let
10:15	devlinsf	,(gauss -7)
10:15	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: gauss in this context
10:16	devlinsf	Have a REPL open?
10:16	devlinsf	You'll see that (gauss -7) is very close to 0
10:16	_fogus_	,(let [gauss (fn[x] (Math/exp (* -1 x x)))] (gauss -7))
10:16	clojurebot	5.242885663363464E-22
10:16	devlinsf	As is (guass 7)
10:17	_fogus_	sure
10:17	esj	to back up devlinsf - in addition, in getting stuff from the real world into the computer, the sensors that we use often less than double precision accuracy once you account for noise, so using greater precision in your maths is often (not always) unneccessary.
10:18	devlinsf	esj: Agreed - But I want to attack the problem mathematically, not as an engineer
10:18	devlinsf	esj: I'm an engineer myself, so I agree with you 110%
10:18	esj	devlinsf: sorry, just glanced over and wanted to comment, will sit back now :)
10:19	devlinsf	esj : :)
10:19	fliebel	devlinsf: why do you include −1 of both 7 and −1 return the same result?
10:20	devlinsf	Umm??
10:20	fliebel	of = if and the last 1 = 7
10:20	devlinsf	,(let [gauss (fn[x] (Math/exp (* -1 x x)))] (gauss -1))
10:20	clojurebot	0.36787944117144233
10:20	devlinsf	,(let [gauss (fn[x] (Math/exp (* -1 x x)))] (gauss -7))
10:20	clojurebot	5.242885663363464E-22
10:20	devlinsf	,(let [gauss (fn[x] (Math/exp (* -1 x x)))] (gauss -1))
10:20	clojurebot	0.36787944117144233
10:20	devlinsf	,(let [gauss (fn[x] (Math/exp (* -1 x x)))] (gauss 7))
10:20	clojurebot	5.242885663363464E-22
10:20	devlinsf	Sorry to spam
10:21	devlinsf	fliebel: could you clarify?
10:21	fliebel	,(let [gauss (fn[x] (Math/exp (* -1 x x)))] (= (gauss 7) (gauss −7)))
10:21	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: −7 in this context
10:21	fliebel	well, both the result of 7 and −7 are 5.242885663363464E-22
10:21	devlinsf	Right
10:21	_fogus_	,(let [gauss (fn[x] (Math/exp (* -1 x x)))] (= (gauss 7) (gauss -7)))
10:21	clojurebot	true
10:22	devlinsf	They should, it's an even fn
10:23	fliebel	so why do you include −1 in the function, this would only make −7 -> 7 and 7 -> −7 right?
10:23	devlinsf	because that's the definition of the gaussion
10:23	devlinsf	e^-(x^2)
10:23	devlinsf	*gaussian
10:24	fliebel	devlinfsL ok, fine, i never did so much math...
10:24	fliebel	i'll sit back and listen
10:24	devlinsf	That's okay, questions are good
10:25	devlinsf	http://www.codersource.net/published/view/279/guassian_smoothing_in_csharp.aspx
10:25	devlinsf	There's a good graph of the function
10:26	devlinsf	Often, you need to find the area under the curve, starting at -infinity, to some value of x
10:27	devlinsf	Now, as we demonstrated, -7 is close to zero, so I'm gonna assume that the area to the left of 7 is zero
10:27	devlinsf	Or really reall really close
10:28	devlinsf	The first attempt to approximate the area is to create a lot of rectangles.
10:28	devlinsf	Let's start with a base width of 1
10:29	devlinsf	(let [gauss (fn[x] (Math/exp (* -1 x x)))] (map gauss (range -7 7))
10:29	devlinsf	,(let [gauss (fn[x] (Math/exp (* -1 x x)))] (map gauss (range -7 7))
10:29	clojurebot	EOF while reading
10:29	Licenser_	FYI: My problem was the socket closing too fast and line-seq still wanting to read from it, having the client wait for a second before closing the socket fixed it - not nice but it works
10:29	devlinsf	,(let [gauss (fn[x] (Math/exp (* -1 x x)))] (map gauss (range -7 7)))
10:29	clojurebot	(5.242885663363464E-22 2.3195228302435696E-16 1.3887943864964021E-11 1.1253517471925912E-7 1.2340980408667956E-4 0.01831563888873418 0.36787944117144233 1.0 0.36787944117144233 0.01831563888873418 1.2340980408667956E-4 1.1253517471925912E-7 1.3887943864964021E-11 2.3195228302435696E-16)
10:29	devlinsf	There
10:29	devlinsf	So, we know the height of the rectangle, and we know that it has a width of 1.
10:30	devlinsf	We can simply add up these values and get an approimation at each point.
10:31	devlinsf	Works for integers, but falls appart if we want to find the value everything less than say -.25
10:31	devlinsf	So, the obvious thing to due here is to use smaller rectangles
10:32	devlinsf	It turns out, that if you make your rectangles twice as small you get twice as good a result, etc.
10:32	devlinsf	But now we have to do twice as much work.
10:32	devlinsf	Boo :(
10:32	fliebel	you are trying to find the point where the gauss is 0?
10:32	devlinsf	Now, you trying to find the area under the curve to the left of a point x
10:32	devlinsf	I.E, and integral
10:33	devlinsf	*No
10:33	fliebel	oh, sorry… I should redo my math...
10:33	devlinsf	It's cool stuff, really.
10:33	devlinsf	Haskell will make more sense as you do... but i digress
10:34	devlinsf	So, as I change the width of my rectange (w), the error improves by (w)
10:34	devlinsf	Kinda sucks
10:34	devlinsf	There's a well know algoritm called Runge-Kutta
10:35	devlinsf	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runge%E2%80%93Kutta_methods
10:35	fliebel	devlinfs: I liked it quite much until I came to sin and cos, which are fine, as long as you understand what is the point.
10:35	devlinsf	fliebel: sin & cos a great
10:35	devlinsf	*are
10:36	devlinsf	RK has an interesting property
10:37	devlinsf	As we change the size of our rectagle, our error goes down dramatically. Specically w/ RK4, a change in w results in an error size of w^4
10:37	devlinsf	So a 2x smaller rectangle is 16 times more accurate
10:37	fliebel	devlinsf: I agree… I tried my best to learn them, and I understand them to some extent now, but after that I kind of gave up.
10:38	devlinsf	fliebel: If you like physics, it'll be easier to understand
10:39	devlinsf	What is so interesting is that RK4 doesn't depend on a decimal apprimation. You could do all of you arithmatic exactly, and the same property would apply
10:41	devlinsf	Questions so far?
10:42	_fogus_	not yet
10:42	devlinsf	Okay, cool
10:43	fliebel	If I knew integrals, I'm sure I'd understand :D
10:44	devlinsf	So, the guass function is fairly straightforward
10:44	devlinsf	gauss
10:44	devlinsf	The real problem arrises when you move from simple integration to differential equations
10:45	esj	fliebel: its like zooming in on the answer, but where it takes time to zoom, so you can have a high a resolution as you want, but to get it takes unlimited time to get it.
10:45	fliebel	I kind of understood that, only failed to understand the goal and the means of doing so.
10:46	_fogus_	devlinsf: I think I see the point of your original statement
10:46	devlinsf	Okay
10:47	_fogus_	devlinsf: But by all means continue
10:47	devlinsf	There is this concept of stability with differential equations
10:47	cp2	is there a 'conventional' way of storing a seq (specifically a vector) in a db (via c.c.sql) ?
10:47	fliebel	I think even I do… You'd need incredible small squares to need more than a float.
10:47	esj	fliebel: yes, but it gets worse, watch !
10:47	devlinsf	What stability means is that "If I ask the same questions, do I get the same anser"
10:48	devlinsf	A stable equation behaves like you expect. If I use smaller rectangles, my answer gets better
10:48	fliebel	devlinfs: are there cases in math where you can get different answers without treads or random numbers?
10:49	devlinsf	An unstable equation is painful. The more rectangles you throw at it, the worse it gets
10:49	fliebel	show us :)
10:49	notallama	a gaussian doesn't have an antiderivative, right? maybe you could integrate the first n terms of the taylor series around 0. i dnno if that will help, though
10:50	devlinsf	boss
10:51	esj	i think I know where devlinsf may be going, so i'll have a go at continuing
10:51	esj	if you want to land your rocket on the moon you need to solve some differential equations
10:52	esj	which you do through the same technique of successively small rectangles
10:52	esj	but if your recantangles are too big, your answer is inaccurate, as with the integral example
10:53	esj	the problem now is, that if you make your recangles small, to get higher accuracy, your numerics blows up
10:53	esj	its not just that it takes forever to get the answer, but you actually stop moving and cant.
10:53	devlinsf	Thanks esj
10:53	devlinsf	Gotta go, you got it
10:54	esj	devlinsf: np
10:54	fliebel	thanks! :)
10:54	_fogus_	devlinsf: Thanks for the run-down
10:54	esj	a lot of stuff that you want to calculate is like this
10:55	esj	so having \pi greater than double is usually not useful
10:56	fliebel	calculating pi to be greater than float is fun though...
10:56	esj	you can calculate it as accurately as you like
10:56	angerman	does anyone know how to add a classpath element to the leiningen project.clj?
10:56	angerman	I want to add a .jar file that is not on clojars
10:56	notallama	you could keep a lazy seq of the digits of pi : p
10:57	esj	you could us this for instance to make a lazy sequence of pi to whatever accuracy you desired: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz_formula_for_pi
10:57	fliebel	I must confess I rather like PI, and can name more than 10 decimals, without wikipedia :)
11:04	fliebel	How can I compile or run a clj file? So far I only played with the REPL. Just entering a file to clj gives me an exception that --file.clj does not exist.
11:06	_fogus_	fliebel: What command are you using?
11:07	fliebel	clj test.clj
11:07	_fogus_	What is clj?
11:08	somnium	fliebel: clj is a bash script?
11:08	somnium	fliebel: may need to make sure it accepts arguments
11:09	micampe	fliebel: have you seen Darren Aronofsky movie Pi?
11:09	somnium	micampe: thats a great movie
11:09	micampe	indeed
11:10	micampe	I love the BW treatment
11:10	somnium	they even play go!
11:10	somnium	someone should write a go engine in clojure
11:10	esj	speaking of intractable algorithms... :P
11:11	somnium	:P
11:11	angerman	is anyone using lein-swank + emacs?
11:11	karmazilla	speaking of clj the bash script. My homebrew related e-mail from a couple of days back; I wonder if people have opinions or if I'm the only person caring :)
11:11	somnium	theyve gotten better than anyone thought they would already
11:12	angerman	when ever I hit C-c C-c it tries to fontify something and runs regexps pretty long
11:13	micampe	eh. I have enough problems wrapping my head around sockets in clojure, go would be a bit far a away at the moment.
11:14	somnium	micampe: I think its the only game left where humans still can regularly beat engines.
11:15	fliebel	somnium: I just thought about that yesterday, after trying to learn go.
11:15	fliebel	micampe: I have not seen the movie I think.
11:15	micampe	fliebel: you should.
11:16	fliebel	domnium: I'll have a look at clj, it's just what macports istalled.
11:16	fliebel	micampe: youtube?
11:16	somnium	Ive been struggling with nio but more due to lack of java familiarity than clojure
11:16	esj	its a similar-ish thing to our previous discussion. A computer playing chess knows all the possible "sure thing" endings an figures out all possible paths from the current state to one of those. But go is not like that, there are too many possibilities, so you need to guess... computers are not so good at that... yet.
11:17	micampe	fliebel: there are probably pieces of it on youtube. I have it on dvd.
11:18	esj	of course in emacs you just press C-C M-^ alt-cokebottle handbrake and it figures out how to win the game... but thats entirely something else
11:18	fliebel	esj: this kind of problem always make me think in force fields....
11:19	esj	fliebel: that is excellent intuition, and the guesses that are made are based exactly on that sort of idea.
11:20	fliebel	esj: I guess it's easier to write robocode bots :D
11:20	somnium	esj: I think table-bases only go to 6-pieces currently
11:20	fliebel	somnium: clj is a bash script full of nonsens....
11:20	somnium	I wonder how many terabytes it would take for all 20
11:21	esj	somnium: wow, that's pretty crazy.
11:21	somnium	er, 16 rather
11:22	somnium	32, ok I cant count
11:22	esj	:)
11:22	fliebel	somnium: (19) that makes me thing of my java book, where they represented a playing field by the pieces and their position rather than a 2d list.
11:27	somnium	fliebel: in some ways its unfortunate, I suspect the world champion probably has a negative score against his cell phone these days (chess)
11:27	polypus	esj: they are making great strides now with statistical methods in go
11:27	cp2	is there a 'conventional' way of storing a seq (specifically a vector) in a db (via c.c.sql) ?
11:28	polypus	i just read this "The var metadata can be used for application-specific purposes as well. Consider using namespace-qualified keys (e.g. :myns/foo) to avoid clashes." in the doc on def.
11:28	somnium	,(str [1 2])
11:28	clojurebot	"[1 2]"
11:28	somnium	,(read-string "[1 2]")
11:28	clojurebot	[1 2]
11:28	polypus	i don't get how this is namespace qualified?
11:29	cp2	ah
11:29	esj	polypus: thanks.
11:29	cp2	somnium: i didnt think of that, thanks
11:29	_fogus_	,::foo
11:29	clojurebot	:sandbox/foo
11:30	_fogus_	sandbox is the ns
11:31	fliebel	what is the normal way of compiling or running a clj file? my clj script is not working and the getting started pages talk only about repl.
11:32	somnium	http://clojure.org/repl_and_main
11:33	pjstadig	is there a maven repo that contains clojure-contrib-1.0-compat.jar?
11:33	fliebel	somnium: and how about compiling to java?
11:33	somnium	fliebel: ^^ this is the bare minimum a clj script should need to do
11:34	somnium	hmm, probably leiningen is easiest
11:34	pjstadig	how is one supposed to setup lein to find clojure-contrib-1.0-compat? i don't see the jar in any of the default repos (central, clojure snapshots, clojars)
11:35	polypus	_fogus_: ty
11:41	fliebel	Am I really supposed to compile Clojure code to Java by running compile form the repl?
11:42	_fogus_	,(doc compile)
11:42	clojurebot	"([lib]); Compiles the namespace named by the symbol lib into a set of classfiles. The source for the lib must be in a proper classpath-relative directory. The output files will go into the directory specified by compile-path, and that directory too must be in the classpath."
11:43	somnium	fliebel: the ant versions Ive seen just invoke clojure.main and pass "(compile ...)"
11:44	fliebel	thanks… kind of odd though.
11:49	lisppaste8	fogus pasted "Minimal Ant Clojure compile" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91773
11:49	fliebel	does Clojure have these templates python has, like: "I eat $s apples every $s" % [2 "day"]
11:49	somnium	,(doc format)
11:49	clojurebot	"([fmt & args]); Formats a string using java.lang.String.format, see java.util.Formatter for format string syntax"
11:49	stuartsierra	fliebel: there's a clojure.lang.Compile class that does that
11:50	fliebel	thanks
11:50	_fogus_	fliebel: L@@k my link above
11:51	fliebel	I noticed, thanks all for helping me out over and over and over etc… again.
11:55	_fogus_	fliebel: Not exactly the same as in ptyhon, but close
11:55	_fogus_	,(format "I eat %d apples every %s" 2 'day)
11:55	clojurebot	"I eat 2 apples every day"
11:59	DeusExPikachu	when you run a concurrent clojure program on a cluster jvm, does it "just work"? In other words, is there anything special you have to do to get clojure code to work on a cluster?
12:01	esj	DeusExPikachu: I don't think clojure directly supports distributed processing, for that you'd want Erlang
12:02	chouser	or one of the many Java libs that helps support distributed processing
12:14	DeusExPikachu	so basically I need to find a cluster JVM that automatically distributes threads among nodes?
12:14	DeusExPikachu	if I want to not have to make any code changes
12:16	esj	DeusExPikachu: I know nothing about this stuff, but there exists libraries such as http://www.terracotta.org/ that might be able to shed light on the state of the art.
12:18	tolstoy	When I 'require clojure.contrib.logging, I get: java.lang.Exception: Unable to find static field: TRACE in class org.apache.log4j.Level
12:18	tolstoy	Surely that can't be right.
12:22	angerman	technomancy: what's the advantage of starting lein with -client?
12:23	angerman	DeusExPikachu: as esj said, terracotta is waht you are looking for. There is a blog somewhere that discusses setting up clojure and terracotta. Google should be able to find it for you
12:23	tolstoy	Ah. Trace is in 1.2.12, and I've 1.2.7.
12:24	DeusExPikachu	yeah I've been reading the site as soon as I asked you guys, was hoping for some firsthand experience, thanks though
13:15	tcrayford	is there an easy way to test if two hash maps are equal?
13:15	tcrayford	(ie have exactly the same keys and vals)
13:16	tcrayford	= doesn't work
13:16	tcrayford	,(= {:a 1 :b 2} {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3})
13:16	clojurebot	false
13:16	the-kenny	,(== {:a 1 :b 2} {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3})
13:16	clojurebot	false
13:16	tcrayford	ooh
13:16	tcrayford	weird
13:17	the-kenny	Uhm, they aren't equal. There is one key more in the second
13:17	tcrayford	I want that to return false
13:17	tcrayford	need to go and rephrase my question methinks
13:18	tcrayford	I have a test which passes: (deftest test-new-message
13:18	tcrayford	(is (= (new-message "Tom" "foo")) (struct message "Toom" "foo" (long-now))))
13:18	tcrayford	where new-message is (defn new-message [user text]
13:18	tcrayford	(struct message user text (long-now)))
13:19	chouser	where the values are equal for the keys they have in common?
13:19	tcrayford	except I am calling "Toom" and "Tom"
13:19	tcrayford	and the test still passes
13:20	chouser	I don't get it. Does the test ever fail?
13:20	tcrayford	I don't think so
13:20	tcrayford	and it should
13:20	tcrayford	with different values
13:20	chouser	oh, you want it to fail in the example you gave?
13:20	tcrayford	c
13:20	tcrayford	I altered the example from the proper test
13:21	tcrayford	cheers for the help
13:22	tcrayford	weird, as
13:22	chouser	,(let [m1 {:a 1, :b 2}, m2 {:a 1, :b 2, :c 3}] (= m1 (select-keys m2 (keys m1))))
13:22	clojurebot	true
13:22	tcrayford	,(= {:a "Tom" :b 2} {:a "Toom" :b 3})
13:22	clojurebot	false
13:23	hiredman	…
13:23	hiredman	tcrayford: that (is ...) you pasted is not checking for equality
13:24	hiredman	check the parens on =
13:24	tcrayford	hah
13:25	tcrayford	yeah confirm I was being dumb with parens
13:26	tcrayford	cheers hiredman
13:43	fliebel	What are the advantages of using an unstable version of Clojure?
13:44	slashus2	You get the try out new ideas?
13:44	konr	new (and not proved to be stable) features?
13:44	fliebel	How unstable is unstable?
13:46	konr	well, I'm always using them, and I've never had any problem with any development-version software, but perhaps I'm just lucky
13:48	fliebel	Hmmm, then my only concern is that devel ports in Macports do not get updates very often. What is worsen then using an old development version? That is like the worst of the 2 sides!
13:48	stuartsierra	fliebel: git master branch is pretty stable. git "new" branch is where new features go, it tends to be less stable and change more frequently.
13:49	fliebel	How old is 20091128? Wait… that looks to much like a date to me...
13:49	hiredman	jeez
13:49	hiredman	ancient history :P
13:49	devlinsf	rhickey: Question for 1.1. Is juxt going to change name in the future, or is the name now fixed? Use (doc juxt) to see what I am refering to.
13:50	Chousuke	(doc juxt)
13:50	clojurebot	"([f] [f g] [f g h] [f g h & fs]); Alpha - name subject to change. Takes a set of functions and returns a fn that is the juxtaposition of those fns. The returned fn takes a variable number of args, and returns a vector containing the result of applying each fn to the args (left-to-right). ((juxt a b c) x) => [(a x) (b x) (c x)]"
13:51	devlinsf	clojure-version
13:51	devlinsf	,clojure-version
13:51	clojurebot	{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 1, :incremental 0, :qualifier "alpha"}
13:53	rhickey	devlinsf: I don't know - I expected more complaints about juxt
13:54	devlinsf	rhickey: Any problem keeping the name?
13:55	fliebel	What is the difference between next and rest? From the doc it seems the only difference is the one possibly returns nil.
13:55	polypus	is there any emacs support for lein?
13:55	Chousuke	fliebel: next is less lazy :)
13:56	polypus	emacs integration is really what i mean
13:56	fliebel	chousuke: let's go for rest then, as long as I don't have to test it's content.
14:03	defn	bah no wonder s halloway's clojure talk at rubyconf 2009 isnt online yet
14:03	defn	confreaks just told me they had a bunch of syncing issues
14:04	defn	whoa holy shit
14:04	defn	intel is buying invidia
14:04	defn	nvidia
14:05	fliebel	So, finally Intel boards without GMA?
14:05	defn	it makes good sense
14:08	KirinDave_	I also imagine intel wants some of that go-juice for their new designs.
14:08	KirinDave_	Micro-graphics-card as a parallel arithmetic assist. An altivec for the new millennium. :)
14:08	DeusExPikachu	link?
14:09	devlinsf	rhickey: My thought on juxt is that if it isn't mature enough to have a frozen name, it isn't mature enough to be in 1.1
14:09	devlinsf	rhickey: Conversely, if it is mature enough to be in 1.1, people must be used to the name
14:09	hiredman	defn: actually, or just cringley's speculation?
14:10	defn	speculation still i guess, but it wouldn't be a shock if it were true
14:11	fliebel	woa! Clojure got stuck…
14:12	fliebel	,(let (def t '(str "joi" "bla")) (keyword (name (first t)))
14:12	clojurebot	EOF while reading
14:12	fliebel	sorry :$
14:13	bjorkintosh	Xach> bjorkintosh: #clojure can give you a case for clojure.
14:13	bjorkintosh	is clojure anything like sbcl?
14:13	bjorkintosh	... or such?
14:13	defn	it's a lisp...
14:13	the-kenny	bjorkintosh: Clojure is another lisp dialect. Like Common Lisp is one.
14:13	ohpauleez	that is particularly good at concurrent things
14:13	the-kenny	SBCL is an implementation of the common lisp spec.
14:13	defn	and uses the JVM
14:14	the-kenny	...and runs in the jvm
14:14	bjorkintosh	ah ...
14:14	defn	:)
14:14	bjorkintosh	so clojure is more like erlang then?
14:14	hiredman	~rationale
14:14	clojurebot	rationale is http://clojure.org/rationale
14:14	defn	no not really
14:14	polypus	not really like erlang
14:14	defn	there are hints of erlang in clojrue
14:14	defn	clojure*
14:14	polypus	in process concurrency
14:14	bjorkintosh	hmm.
14:14	ohpauleez	it feels lightweight, it has a "hack as I think" feeling like python for me personally
14:14	polypus	but even w/o the concurrency stuff io it's the nicest lisp i've seen
14:15	polypus	s/io/imo
14:15	defn	it's my first lisp and im enjoying it
14:15	the-kenny	polypus: Yes, I think so too
14:15	bjorkintosh	so it isn't possible to harness all the computers at a lab to run a clojure program concurrently?
14:15	defn	learning some elisp in tandem and its been a good experienc
14:15	defn	bjorkintosh: sure
14:15	bjorkintosh	it is?! cool!
14:15	ohpauleez	I was a die hard CL lover, and did most of my work and enjoyment project in Python
14:15	ohpauleez	and Clojure is easily becoming my favorite language
14:15	bjorkintosh	that's what i meant by the erlang comparison.
14:16	gravity	bjorkintosh: You'd need to use something like hadoop to do it
14:16	the-kenny	bjorkintosh: Clojure isn't designed around this "My program can run on then tousand machines at once" like erlang is. But it's possible.
14:16	defn	bjorkintosh: clojure has agent-based concurrency
14:16	the-kenny	s/then//
14:16	pjstadig	I'm blowing stack and I don't know why
14:16	bjorkintosh	but how does the concurrent bit work?
14:16	bjorkintosh	is there something to read on that?
14:16	defn	better to read about it than have us explain it
14:16	slashus2	It isn't really about distributed concurrency as much as shared memory concurrency. There are java libraries that will allow you to do that though.
14:16	defn	http://clojure.org/concurrency
14:16	pjstadig	i have a collection of 7393 collections that i'm trying to concatenate together
14:16	defn	oops bad link
14:16	konr	Is there a way to make SLIME automatically add /foo/lib/*jar to the classpath, when editing some file from /foo/src/?
14:17	defn	http://clojure.org/refs, http://clojure.org/agents, http://clojure.org/agents
14:17	bjorkintosh	hmm. hadoop...
14:17	pjstadig	,(reduce concat (map (constantly (vector 1 2 3)) (range 0 7393))
14:17	clojurebot	EOF while reading
14:17	bjorkintosh	okay.
14:17	pjstadig	,(reduce concat (map (constantly (vector 1 2 3)) (range 0 7393)))
14:17	clojurebot	Eval-in-box threw an exception:java.lang.StackOverflowError
14:17	the-kenny	konr: Use leiningen or swank-clojure-project
14:17	DeusExPikachu	bjorkintosh: a big part of clojure over CL is first class datastructures besides the list
14:17	ohpauleez	pjstadig: is there a reason for not doing it lazily? Are calculating these things?
14:17	defn	konr: yeah listen to the-kenny, leiningen + clojars + swank-clojure = pure win
14:17	bjorkintosh	do hadoop and clojure play nicely together?
14:18	the-kenny	defn: Yes, exactly :)
14:18	defn	i believe someone wrote something to do hadoop stuff with clj
14:18	pjstadig	,(reduce lazy-cat (map (constantly (vector 1 2 3)) (range 0 7393)))
14:18	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure.core/lazy-cat
14:18	slashus2	Clojure allows for wrapper free access to java libraries.
14:18	defn	bjorkintosh: http://github.com/stuartsierra/clojure-hadoop
14:18	pjstadig	,(reduce #(lazy-cat %1 %2) (map (constantly (vector 1 2 3)) (range 0 7393)))
14:18	clojurebot	Eval-in-box threw an exception:java.lang.StackOverflowError
14:19	bjorkintosh	okay.
14:19	DeusExPikachu	its got great standardized reader macros too, makes code concise
14:19	pjstadig	i guess i would be fine with a lazy sequence if I could figure out how to get it to work
14:19	defn	lazy-seq
14:19	pjstadig	besides it shouldn't blow stack doing a reduce should it?
14:19	DeusExPikachu	especially for coding macros
14:19	pjstadig	i would expect to maybe run out of memory
14:20	bjorkintosh	so are clojure and commonlisp close enough that the examples from the books i have on common lisp can be implemented in it?
14:20	the-kenny	bjorkintosh: Yes, except for reader macros
14:20	stuartsierra	bjorkintosh: no
14:20	bjorkintosh	reader macros. okay.
14:20	stuartsierra	I mean, you can implement all the same things, but the syntax and names will be different.
14:21	DeusExPikachu	bjorkintosh: I'd say so, coming from Pratical Common Lisp
14:21	pjstadig	defn: how would i use lazy-seq?
14:21	bjorkintosh	cool.
14:21	DeusExPikachu	if you need a reference, someone went ahead and ported the PCL code to clojure, just google it up
14:22	bjorkintosh	i'm apt-get-ing clojure right now.
14:22	the-kenny	bjorkintosh: The biggest difference is the persistence in data structures.. you can't change for example a map, but you'll get a copy of the back with the element added back from assoc. Like in Haskell
14:22	bjorkintosh	is there a nice IDE for it?
14:22	the-kenny	emacs + slime
14:22	the-kenny	(+ leiningen)
14:22	DeusExPikachu	I use slime, clojure-mode
14:22	bjorkintosh	oh. nothing vim-ey like?
14:22	bjorkintosh	(emacs makes me cry)
14:23	defn	and yet you use parentheses to explain your disgust
14:23	the-kenny	my experience is, that hacking lisp in vim is very painful
14:23	bjorkintosh	hehehe
14:23	gbt	there is vim-clojure, but I've not tried it
14:23	defn	i tried using vim with clojure, many people use it in here, but i found the swank-clojure stuff to be such an incredibly powerful tool that i learned emacs and havent looked back
14:24	DeusExPikachu	I can't live without paredit mode
14:24	bjorkintosh	i'm an agnostic, but i prefer to think the world was created in vi. (hides)
14:24	defn	paredit is very nice as well
14:24	defn	bjorkintosh: tools are tools
14:24	fliebel	What does it mean when I get a java.lang.NullPointerException in Clojure?
14:24	defn	pick what you want and go for it, but personally emacs was made for lisp hacking
14:24	the-kenny	I've learned Emacs just for Common Lisp and now I use it for everything from LaTeX to ToDo-Management (org-mode ftw!)
14:24	defn	org-mode > *
14:24	bjorkintosh	sigH
14:24	defn	and yeah, latex is so nice
14:24	the-kenny	defn: Exactly :)
14:25	bjorkintosh	you poor things. tools are tools, as defn said.
14:25	defn	mobileorg is quite cool also :)
14:25	the-kenny	defn: I'm thinking about writing a parser for org-mode in clojure
14:25	defn	have you seen babel?
14:25	chouser	why is the frequency of editor conversations going up!?
14:25	bjorkintosh	okay.
14:25	the-kenny	defn: babel?
14:25	defn	it's in org-mode's contrib
14:25	fliebel	chouser: partly because of me....
14:25	bjorkintosh	so how does clojure talk to the jvm? i'm at the prompt... is that it?
14:26	chouser	bjorkintosh: depends on what you want to tell the JVM.
14:26	gravity	bjorkintosh: clojure is compiled to jvm bytecode
14:26	bjorkintosh	ah okay.
14:26	defn	the-kenny: http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/org-babel.php
14:26	defn	there is support for clojure now :)
14:26	the-kenny	defn: Woah, cool :)
14:26	bjorkintosh	i think i'll use it for a while to see how it wears.
14:26	the-kenny	defn: But I was thinking about an external parser, written in clojure
14:26	fliebel	bjorkintosh: you can also do aot compiling and run scripts of course.
14:26	DeusExPikachu	the blip.tv talks are good too
14:27	defn	the-kenny: sure, different story, but i just thought id pass that along since it seemed sort of related
14:27	the-kenny	defn: Yeah, maybe it's helpful :)
14:27	the-kenny	Thanks
14:27	defn	the-kenny: i was thinking something like a little blogging platform similar to jekyll that runs on clojure and org-mode
14:27	pjstadig	,clojure-version
14:28	clojurebot	{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 1, :incremental 0, :qualifier "alpha"}
14:28	fliebel	defn: Woa, I wanted to do just that… not sure about the org-mode though. But at least something liek Jekyll
14:28	defn	fliebel: got a repo?
14:28	pjstadig	am I wrong in thinking that reduce shouldn't blow stack?
14:29	fliebel	defn: nope, I'm trying to learn Clojure first.
14:29	defn	im thinking compojure + lein
14:29	the-kenny	hm.. I'm just learning Markdown for blog-posts and such things
14:29	defn	fliebel: cool well, buzz me if you're working on anything
14:29	defn	and ill do the same
14:29	fliebel	sure :)
14:29	defn	i started a repo last night to do some compojure stuff, my first experience with lein + clojars
14:29	defn	pretty awesome
14:30	somnium`	! google chrome for linux released
14:30	defn	pjstadig: i dont think you're wrong, but that code doesn't seem "right" to me for some reason
14:30	fliebel	defn: I have been trying to make my own template language for ages now… but I'd possible use the one in contrib for the final thing.
14:30	fliebel	somnium: now for the mac version...
14:30	defn	fliebel: the html templating stuff?
14:31	defn	like (html-tree [:h1 "hello"]) ?
14:31	fliebel	defn: yea, that one...
14:31	defn	yeah thats what im playing with
14:32	fliebel	defn: I made something like that in Python a while back.
14:32	fliebel	http://metapep.wordpress.com/2009/10/04/pymlpython-markup-language-template-engine/
14:33	fliebel	Then I decided to learn Clojure and make my CMS with that instead.
14:33	defn	It's pretty neat: I was just messing with some really basic stuff last night: (defn default-layout [title, content-tree] (html-tree [:html [:head [:title title] [:body content-tree]]]))
14:33	defn	someting like that
14:34	defn	and then you can (html (default-layout "home" [:h1 "Home"]))
14:34	defn	or somesuch
14:34	fliebel	Is that instantly converted to a string, or more in the lazy and editable way?
14:34	chouser	pjstadig: generally, reduce should not blow the stack, at least not by itself.
14:34	defn	fliebel: i believe it's converted to a string right away, but i dont really know that much about it yet tbh
14:34	defn	,(html-tree [:h1 "abc")
14:35	clojurebot	Unmatched delimiter: )
14:35	defn	oops
14:35	defn	,(html-tree [:h1 "abc])
14:35	clojurebot	EOF while reading string
14:35	defn	bahhh!
14:35	defn	,(html-tree [:h1 "abc"])
14:35	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: html-tree in this context
14:35	pjstadig	chouser: so i think this is a general case, does this mean its a bug?
14:35	defn	i give up on life
14:35	fliebel	defn: That is one of the key points for me. make a template, fiddle with it and then print it.
14:35	defn	,(use 'compojure)
14:35	clojurebot	java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate compojure__init.class or compojure.clj on classpath:
14:36	defn	fliebel: yeah it's easy enough, pretty easy to template with
14:36	chouser	pjstadig: you have a small test case we can look at?
14:36	fliebel	defn: I even had basic xpath in my Python lib.
14:36	defn	cool
14:36	pjstadig	,(reduce concat (map (constantly (vector 1 2 3)) (range 0 7393))
14:36	clojurebot	EOF while reading
14:36	pjstadig	,(reduce concat (map (constantly (vector 1 2 3)) (range 0 7393)))
14:36	clojurebot	Eval-in-box threw an exception:java.lang.StackOverflowError
14:37	defn	i get an awfully weird stack trace when i run that code pjstadig
14:37	pjstadig	may depend on the JVM config, but you can bump the range down to 1900
14:37	chouser	,(let [x (reduce concat (map (constantly (vector 1 2 3)) (range 0 7393)))])
14:37	clojurebot	nil
14:37	pjstadig	,(reduce concat (map (constantly (vector 1 2 3)) (range 0 1900)))
14:37	clojurebot	Eval-in-box threw an exception:java.lang.StackOverflowError
14:38	chouser	pjstadig: reduce is not blowing the stack.
14:38	pjstadig	,(let [x (reduce concat (map (constantly (vector 1 2 3)) (range 0 1900)))])
14:38	clojurebot	nil
14:38	pjstadig	,(let [x (reduce concat (map (constantly (vector 1 2 3)) (range 0 1900)))] x)
14:38	clojurebot	Eval-in-box threw an exception:java.lang.StackOverflowError
14:38	konr	the-kenny: I installed lein, moved my .jar to /project/lib/, and started swank-clojure-project on /project/, yet /project/myjar.jar is not on the classpath - do I need to add it somehow to project.clj?
14:38	fliebel	defn: In Python objects have a string representation, which allowed me to build the template as some complicated list and then the whole thing shows up as html when printed. Does Clojure objects have a editable representation?
14:38	konr	*project/lib/myjar.jar
14:38	pjstadig	it's blowing stack when it tries to print i guess
14:38	Chousuke	I suspect it's the concats
14:38	Chousuke	since concat is lazy.
14:38	chouser	pjstadig: the lazy structure being produced by concat blows the stack when you try to get the first element.
14:39	Chousuke	you're generating a whole lot of chunks.
14:39	Chousuke	er.
14:39	Chousuke	thunks
14:39	hiredman	concat is :(
14:39	chouser	,(reduce concat (map #(list %) (range 1e4)))
14:39	clojurebot	Eval-in-box threw an exception:java.lang.StackOverflowError
14:39	pjstadig	so it blows stack trying to realize the lazy seq
14:40	chouser	try (apply concat ...) instead
14:40	pjstadig	,(apply concat (map (constantly (vector 1 2 3)) (range 0 1900)))
14:40	clojurebot	(1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2
14:40	pjstadig	k
14:41	the-kenny	konr: hm... should work. Maybe ask the author of swank-clojure-project?
14:41	defn	(def fooseq (lazy-seq (repeat (vector 1 2 3)))
14:41	defn	does that work at all?
14:41	the-kenny	s/-project//
14:41	defn	or are we stuck with the same problem
14:41	Chousuke	defn: the lazy-seq there is redundant
14:41	chouser	defn: doesn't produce the same output.
14:42	fliebel	What does it mean in Clojure if I get a java.lang.NullPointerException?
14:42	hiredman	,(.foo nil)
14:42	the-kenny	konr: You can also check the contents of (get (System/getProperties) "java.class.path")
14:42	clojurebot	java.lang.NullPointerException
14:42	the-kenny	(That'll get you the classpath of the running clojure instance)
14:42	Chousuke	fliebel: exactly what it means in java :)
14:43	Chousuke	fliebel: nil is java null
14:43	fliebel	chousuke: So I did a function call somewhere without a proper argument?
14:43	Chousuke	fliebel: yeah. or a method call.
14:43	hiredman	always a method a call
14:44	fliebel	what si the difference between function and method?
14:44	hiredman	at the bottom an NPE means you called a method on null
14:44	konr	the-kenny: It's strange... perhaps my swank is not configured right. Thanks!
14:44	Chousuke	fliebel: functions mean clojure functions, methods are java methods (interop)
14:44	_fogus_	,(+ 1 nil)
14:44	clojurebot	java.lang.NullPointerException
14:44	defn	chouser: that does produce the same output
14:44	the-kenny	konr: Where do you get the not-in-classpath-thing in clojure?
14:45	_fogus_	nil could also be an argument
14:45	Chousuke	fliebel: behind the scenes though a function call is also a method call but that's an implemetation detail :)
14:45	defn	(= (apply concat (map (constantly (vector 1 2 3)) (range 0 1900))) (reduce concat (take 1900 fooseq)))
14:45	defn	=>true
14:45	fliebel	chousuke: http://pastebin.com/m7ee2fd0
14:46	chouser	,(first (lazy-seq (repeat (vector 1 2 3)))
14:46	fliebel	I think it's line 11
14:46	clojurebot	EOF while reading
14:46	chouser	,(first (lazy-seq (repeat (vector 1 2 3))))
14:46	clojurebot	[1 2 3]
14:46	hiredman	_fogus_: I think if you follow + down the call chain you will find a method being called on nil
14:46	Chousuke	fliebel: resolve is returning nil
14:46	chouser	defn: the lazy-seq/repeat example returns a list of vectors. The apply and reduce concat examples return a list of numbers.
14:47	konr	the-kenny: Well, my library is not in java.class.path, and I get a class not found exception when I try to use one of its classes
14:47	Chousuke	fliebel: you don't have an "a" fucntion
14:47	defn	chouser: ah, ok, thanks
14:47	fliebel	chousuke: that is supposed to tigger the else case...
14:47	defn	what are all the bit twiddling forms in clojure?
14:48	Chousuke	,(fn? nil[D[D[D[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C [A[B[A [A[B[A[A )
14:48	clojurebot	Unmatched delimiter: )
14:48	Chousuke	eh
14:48	_fogus_	hiredman: I think in that case the nil is an argument to an Integer ctor
14:48	Chousuke	,(fn? nil)
14:48	clojurebot	false
14:48	Chousuke	,(fn? @nil)
14:48	clojurebot	java.lang.NullPointerException
14:48	Chousuke	there
14:49	hiredman	_fogus_: basically a method call :P
14:49	Chousuke	can't deref nil
14:49	fliebel	chousuke: so, how do I do a proper test for an existing function?
14:49	Chousuke	fliebel: check whether resolve returns nil
14:49	_fogus_	hiredman: If you want me to say you're right, then OK. You're right. ;)
14:50	fliebel	chousuke: I don't even know how to make an && in clojure :$
14:50	Chousuke	(doc and)
14:50	clojurebot	"([] [x] [x & next]); Evaluates exprs one at a time, from left to right. If a form returns logical false (nil or false), and returns that value and doesn't evaluate any of the other expressions, otherwise it returns the value of the last expr. (and) returns true."
14:50	jasapp	defn: (doc-find "bit") ?
14:50	defn	jasapp: i found it, thanks :)
14:50	jasapp	oops
14:51	jasapp	(find-doc ...
14:51	defn	i just got Hacker's Delight so I'm gearing up for bit twiddling fun with clj
14:51	fliebel	thanks! once you learn to think the lisp way everything becomes so obvious.
14:51	stuartsierra	defn: be aware, bit twiddling in Clojure is slow compared to Java
14:51	jasapp	really, how come?
14:51	defn	stuartsierra: is that a permanent fact, or the temporary situation?
14:52	Chousuke	defn: hopefully temporary.
14:52	defn	what's the reasoning behind it?
14:52	defn	out of curiosity
14:53	defn	and by slower, how much?
14:53	Chousuke	defn: boxing probably.
14:54	fliebel	chousuke: This is how far I can get… (if (and (resolve (first func)) (fn? @(resolve (first func))))
14:54	Chousuke	fliebel: that should do it.
14:55	fliebel	chousuke: Caused by: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: Character
14:56	Chousuke	fliebel: you have an error someplace else I guess.
14:56	Chousuke	because that looks just fine to me.
14:56	fliebel	you see what I mean by unhelpful error messages?
14:56	Chousuke	fliebel: you can't map html btw
14:56	Chousuke	it's a mcro.
14:56	Chousuke	macro*
14:56	fliebel	ah… :(
14:57	defn	so this is my first experience with bit twiddling: the following formula can be used to test if an unsigned integer is of the form 2^n - 1: x & (x + 1)
14:57	defn	how would you implement this in clojure?
14:57	stuartsierra	defn: temporary, I hope
14:58	fliebel	chousuke: thanks for saving me again :P
14:58	Chousuke	(bit-and x (inc x))? /
14:59	defn	lol duh, i tried a couple tests and it didnt look like it was working, but it is
14:59	defn	thanks Chousuke
15:00	fliebel	Is there something like recursive macros?
15:00	defn	(recur) ?
15:00	defn	oh, macros, hmm, i dont know
15:01	Chousuke	fliebel: yes.
15:01	Chousuke	~def ->
15:01	fliebel	like (macro (some-other-macro))
15:01	defn	did (->) come before (..) or was it vice versa?
15:01	somnium`	,(macroexpand (->> (range 5) (map inc) (map dec)))
15:01	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4)
15:01	somnium`	,(macroexpand '(->> (range 5) (map inc) (map dec)))
15:01	clojurebot	(map dec (clojure.core/->> (range 5) (map inc)))
15:05	fliebel	I try to make this recursive: http://pastebin.com/m2f9cba4b (so that "boe" can be another expression that is treaded just like func)
15:06	fliebel	But I guess it's time to sleep yawn
15:06	fliebel	Oh, one more thing: Because strings are immutable, does that mean string concatenation is slow?
15:10	cark	fliebel : yes, use a StringBuilder when you need speed
15:10	fliebel	cark: what is that?
15:11	cark	http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/StringBuilder.html
15:11	chouser	(apply str ...) uses a StringBuilder internally
15:11	cark	or (apply str my-seq-of-strings)
15:12	Chousuke	there's usually no need to use stringbuilder explicitly.
15:12	Chousuke	since str uses it.
15:13	fliebel	ok, thanks :) I'm off to my bed… Bye!
15:15	polypus	are namespaces on clojure anything like package names in java where there a.b.c maps to a directory hierarchy a/b/c?
15:16	jasapp	is using StringBuilder really faster than concat?
15:16	jasapp	http://pastebin.com/m50c24ade
15:16	jasapp	or is my test case not big enough to see advantages?
15:17	stuartsierra	polypus: yes
15:17	stuartsierra	jasapp: concat is for sequences, not strings
15:17	stuartsierra	,(concat "foo" "bar")
15:18	clojurebot	(\f \o \o \b \a \r)
15:18	polypus	stuart: ty. so why does lein set the top level ns to <project-name>.core? why isn't it just <project-name>
15:19	shr3kst3r	,(str "foo" "bar")
15:19	clojurebot	"foobar"
15:19	stuartsierra	polypus: I guess lein assumes multiple namespaces in a project
15:19	stuartsierra	don't know about lein
15:19	jasapp	ahh
15:20	the-kenny	polypus: technomancy is the guy you want to talk with :)
15:22	polypus	i'm not a java hacker so i'm a bit confused about how i should be naming my namespaces. lwt's say i have a project foo. with directory structure foo, foo/src, foo/src/foo.clj, foo/src/foo/bar.clj. are there any conventions that i should be following with respect to namespace names in foo.clj & bar.clj?
15:23	polypus	s/lwt/let
15:23	the-kenny	src/foo/bar.clj is (ns foo.bar)
15:23	chouser	polypus: it's normal, if a bit inconvenient, to use a globally unique name for your namespace and/or java package name
15:24	chouser	so perhaps org.polypus.foo
15:24	chouser	the definition for such a namespace foo should be in a file org/polypus/foo.clj
15:25	chouser	you might stick that in a src dir, so perhaps foo/src/org/polypus/foo.clj
15:25	chouser	then you can add foo/src to your classpath and (require 'org.polypus.foo) to load your namespace.
15:26	polypus	chouser: ty
15:27	chouser	np
15:28	technomancy	polypus: it uses foo.core since you can't AOT single-segment namespaces
15:29	polypus	so under this scheme my bar.clj file would be under foo/src/org/polypus/foo/bar.clj and have namespace org.polypus.foo.bar?
15:29	polypus	technomancy: ty
15:30	lisppaste8	dakrone pasted "I thought multiple definitions were allowed?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91782
15:31	dakrone	are multiple arg# definitions not allowed (like what I pasted?)
15:31	ska2342	dakrone: I think you're missing an extra pair of parens
15:32	defn	im new to building packaged applications and such, im using leiningen right now, but basically i have src/dejure/ and src/dejure.clj, im working on a compojure project -- where would i put something like say...an images/ folder or a public/ folder?
15:32	defn	does that stuff all go in the project root?
15:32	dakrone	ska2342: do I need a paren-thize (?) both definitions, or each individually?
15:32	technomancy	polypus: there's no need in Clojure to use something like org.polypus
15:32	polypus	dakrone: (defn f ([...] ...) ([...] ...))
15:32	technomancy	that's a java convention you see carried over, but it's not helpful
15:33	ska2342	dakrone: take a look at the example on http://clojure.org/special_forms where fn is described
15:33	technomancy	polypus: and it can be very annoying if you try to hand off maintainership of a project
15:33	dakrone	polypus & ska2342 okay, that was my problem, thanks guys/girls
15:33	technomancy	oh hah; here I am directly contradicting chouser.
15:33	_fogus_	What?!? There are girls here?
15:33	technomancy	obviously there is no consensus about this
15:33	the-kenny	(something = the file, the module of the project)
15:33	the-kenny	s/the/one/
15:34	technomancy	but I feel that the domain-name-as-namespace convention is an annoyance
15:34	technomancy	anyway, if your project name is not enough to make your namespace unique then you have bigger problems to deal with
15:34	technomancy	like finding a better project name
15:34	chouser	hm
15:34	ska2342	(count (filter is-girl people-in-hash-clojure))
15:34	defn	technomancy: is there a good place to learn the basics of structuring lein projects past the initial configuration.. i ran lein new myprojname, im trying to figure out where to place things like a public directory, stylesheets, images, etc. for a compojure project
15:35	defn	does that stuff go in src/, or in the proj. root?
15:35	technomancy	defn: put it in resources/
15:35	the-kenny	defn: Look at the readme :)
15:35	technomancy	that was added right before the 1.0 release
15:35	defn	oh cool, thanks
15:36	lisppaste8	dakrone pasted "why is abs randomly not available?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91783
15:36	technomancy	polypus: maybe since chouser is writing a book called "idiomatic Clojure" you should listen to him instead of me; dunno. =)
15:36	polypus	:)
15:37	dakrone	can anyone tell me why the call to Math/abs is resolving sometimes, but not others?
15:37	the-kenny	dakrone: Could you show us the code?
15:37	dakrone	the-kenny: sure
15:37	lisppaste8	dakrone annotated #91783 "the whole code" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91783#1
15:38	polypus	technomancy: i'm still a bit confused. you have <proj>.core but the directory structure does not mirror this. why can you get away with this?
15:38	the-kenny	dakrone: ah, got it. Add a type-annotation
15:38	dakrone	the-kenny: oh okay, so it's the duck-typing that's confusing it?
15:39	the-kenny	It calls abs with reflection and it looks like the type of one argument on a call is changing and there isn't an abs for this type of args defined
15:39	the-kenny	dakrone: I think so. Just try it
15:39	the-kenny	And (set! *warn-on-reflection true), so you'll get warnings if some java-call goes through reflection :)
15:39	the-kenny	s/ion/ion*/
15:40	dakrone	the-kenny: I replaced the line with (/ (reduce + (map (fn [#^Double n] (Math/abs (- n average))) list-of-nums)), but I still get the same error
15:41	defn	technomancy: just a suggestion, but for a `lein new project`, I keep having to reformat the project.clj from the single line to a more readable/editable version
15:41	defn	any plans to make that indented properly on init?
15:41	the-kenny	defn: hmhm... I have no idea then.. sorry
15:42	cark	,(doc double)
15:42	clojurebot	"([x]); Coerce to double"
15:43	dakrone	cark: okay, wrapping the (- n average) in double did the trick
15:44	hiredman	it seems like if you set java.system.class.loader to something like http://gist.github.com/251980 adding classes, jars, etc at runtime wouldn't be a problem
15:44	dakrone	cark: thanks
15:45	chouser	technomancy: it might be worth having a discussion about project name layouts
15:45	chouser	I certainly have no love for the extra directory level required by com/org
15:45	the-kenny	hiredman: It would be really cool if something like this would be in clojure itself :)
15:46	ska2342	dakrone: I think average is sometimes a ratio and Math/abs doesn't know how to deal with them. It should suffice to coerce average to double. Could you try?
15:46	dakrone	ska2342: yep, cark suggested that and it fixed the problem
15:46	hiredman	the-kenny: I dunno if it actually solves whatever the problem is
15:46	dakrone	ska2342: you're right, I totally forgot that average is sometimes a ration
15:46	dakrone	*ratio
15:46	ska2342	,(Math/abs 3/2)
15:46	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: abs
15:47	hiredman	I'm throwing it out there and hopefully someone will say "yes it does"
15:47	chouser	technomancy: but surely having people at org.clojure maintain a project whose name happens to be net.n01se.foo is less of a problem (is it really any problem at all) than for two groups who have no knowledge of each other to each build libs named, oh I don't know, "statistical"
15:47	ska2342	this gives reason to having clojure-built-in abs, no?
15:47	chouser	the latter case causing really painful issues for anyone trying to have both in the same classpath.
15:48	slyrus	hiredman: is that a prototype swank-class-loader?
15:48	dakrone	ska2342: I agree, having a built-in would be nice
15:48	hiredman	slyrus: I don't know, I barely have swank working
15:49	hiredman	I do have the gist posting thing in emacs working, I guess
15:49	slyrus	works for me... i even finally managed to get incanter working with slime
15:51	technomancy	chouser: right, but why would you have two groups with no knowledge of each other?
15:51	chouser	because the world is a big place?
15:51	technomancy	seems like picking a project name is a task that deserves some thorough research
15:52	hiredman	if this system classpath thing works, add-classpath could be rejiggered to check to see if the system classloader is clojure friendly and error out if it isn't
15:52	technomancy	chouser: maybe for internal projects you could make that case
15:52	technomancy	but I don't see how it makes sense for open source
15:52	hiredman	I mean, I have tried it, and it in my very limited testing it works
15:52	technomancy	Google's index makes the world a lot smaller than it used to be. =)
15:52	chouser	technomancy: what about an internal project that goes open source later?
15:53	chouser	conversely, once a project is named org.something, why ever change it? I don't see a problem (other that the extra directory level)
15:53	technomancy	sure, open-sourcing a project is probably not a good reason to rearrange the directory layout
15:54	the-kenny	Is there a slime-command to shutdown the in emacs running lisp-process? Always killing inferior lisp is annoying
15:54	technomancy	but really the collision would only exist if two similarly-named private projects both decided to open their codebases
15:54	LauJensen	the-kenny: in the repl, hit ,q
15:54	technomancy	it's pretty edge-casey
15:54	the-kenny	,q?
15:54	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: q? in this context
15:55	technomancy	defn: there's a TODO for prettyprinting project.clj; yeah
15:55	defn	cool
15:55	technomancy	but the contrib prettyprinter doesn't really look all that great
15:55	the-kenny	LauJensen: ahhhh I totally forgot about this ,-thing. Thanks!
15:56	LauJensen	np :)
15:56	ska2342	the-kenny: the slime REPL buffer has a shortcut-key (,) which can be used to access a few functions. I seem to remember that it only works at the beginning of a new REPL line. BTW: ,s (sayoonara) does the same.
15:56	ska2342	try , TAB for a list
15:56	clojurebot	for is not used enough
15:57	the-kenny	ska2342: Yes, I used this with common lisp some time I ago. I just forgot it was there.
15:57	polypus	why is it alright to have proj-name.core at the top level of src. why does asking for this ns by way of :use or :require even work? from what chouser said i'd expect the directory structure to be proj-name/core.clj
15:57	cark	what's not to like about c.c.pprint ?
15:57	cark	besides speed
15:57	ska2342	the-kenny: wouldn't it be nice to load a contrib-lib like you could with asdf-systems? :-)
15:57	the-kenny	ska2342: Yes :)
15:58	churib	wow, didnt knew the ,-thing
15:58	hiredman	polypus: proj_name/core.clj actually
15:58	technomancy	cark: I just meant that the output it produces in this particular case doesn't match what a human would do
15:58	technomancy	polypus: that's a bug
15:58	technomancy	the new task on leiningen was ... not well-tested for the 1.0 release
15:58	technomancy	we should have 1.0.1 out in a couple days
15:58	the-kenny	But I mainly needs this if I've added a new lib to my project and don't want to restart my repl
15:59	ska2342	cool: , change-package seems to work
15:59	technomancy	ska2342: see also C-c M-p from a clojure buffer to change the repl namespace
15:59	polypus	hiredman: ahh so rewrite - as _? is this a java thing?
16:00	polypus	technomancy: so the behaviour will change with 1.0.1?
16:00	ska2342	technomancy: he, never used that in my CL days, or else it dropped off the memory
16:00	the-kenny	Btw. should M-x slime-list-threads work with swank-clojure?
16:00	the-kenny	I think it would be a nice thing to have
16:01	eno	anyone has idea why I get this error trying to run lein generated jar (not uberjar)? http://paste.lisp.org/display/91786
16:01	technomancy	the-kenny: it would... just nobody's gotten around to porting it yet
16:01	the-kenny	eno: is clojure.jar in your classpath?
16:01	technomancy	eno: try lein deps first
16:01	the-kenny	technomancy: hm okay. Maybe I will :)
16:02	eno	"lein deps" returns without anything
16:02	eno	the-kenny: I put clojure-....jar explicitly in java -cp
16:02	patrkris	i've noticed that clojure-projects often build a project-source.jar file... what's that used for?
16:02	the-kenny	eno: and clojure.jar itself?
16:04	eno	the-kenny: tried java -cp ~/.clojure/clojure.jar:lib/clojure-1.1.0-alpha-20091126.000150-7.jar:lib/clojure-contrib-1.0-20091208.130239-27.jar
16:04	eno	same error
16:04	rullie	hi folks, i'm a noob
16:05	eno	OTOH, hello-standalone.jar runs fine
16:05	technomancy	eno: ah; -jar and -cp are mutually-exclusive
16:05	technomancy	java -jar is only good for standalones; that's just how java works.
16:05	eno	ah ok
16:06	rullie	is it safe to say you can use all existing java libs in cljure?
16:06	polypus	rullie: yes
16:06	cark	i don't think so ... some need annotations
16:07	rullie	what about generics and such
16:07	ska2342	cark: oh, they cause a problem? Never thought about that. Do you have any reading material on this at hand?
16:08	cark	with type erasure generics are no problem i think
16:08	polypus	does clojurebot have paste.lisp.org support?
16:08	eno	probably should use "java -cp clojure.jar:helloworld.jar main.Class"
16:09	the-kenny	Is there a way to show the differences between the saved version of a file and the modified file in emacs?
16:10	LauJensen	For those of you who use ClojureQL and have been annoyed with the lack of a persisted global connection, its now added :)
16:11	the-kenny	hah, got it. diff-buffer-with-file :)
16:13	rullie	don't remember what you typed? :p
16:14	rullie	so how does clojure handle generics?
16:15	the-kenny	rullie: Yes, I was working on some files and couldn't remember that I've worked on that file.. but I could have made important changes to it
16:16	cark	rullie : it doesn't, there is no need as clojure is dynamically typed
16:16	ska2342	the-kenny: that reminds me that I wanted an ediff session for unsaved changes for ages. Never got across the prototype stage, though :-(
16:16	rullie	cark: what i meant is how does it work with libs that do have generics in it
16:16	lpetit	Hello
16:16	cark	nothing special about it, just use as usual
16:17	the-kenny	rullie: Iirc, generics are removed at compile-time.
16:17	the-kenny	There are just type annotations to the compiler
16:17	eno	rullie: type erasure
16:17	rullie	ok, that's great
16:17	cark	well no it sucks =) .net is better in that respect
16:17	cark	but good for clojure yes =)
16:18	rullie	great as in no need to worry about them in clojure
16:18	the-kenny	cark: C++ is better in that too :D
16:18	the-kenny	Templates > Generics
16:18	lpetit	rhickey: would like to know what you have in mind concerning the future of the ad-hoc hierarchy mechanisms currently in place for multimethods. And also if you want (or is it already done ?) to bridge the 2 "types" concepts ?
16:20	cark	i don't know c++ much, are generics and templates solving the same problems, or do they just have a slight overlap ?
16:21	the-kenny	cark: templates are mostly used like generics, but the types aren't dropped at compile time.
16:22	hiredman	grrr
16:22	the-kenny	hiredman: Did I say something wrong?
16:23	hiredman	I somehow end up with missing parens, and paredit won't let me insert a paren
16:23	polypus	yeah that's annoying
16:23	technomancy	hiredman: C-q )
16:23	technomancy	C-q is "break the rules" mode
16:24	the-kenny	whoa, something's wrong here. swank-clojure-project just started a sbcl-session
16:25	ska2342	the-kenny: nothing wrong with sbcl .. oops, wrong channel ;-)
16:25	ska2342	the-kenny: maybe you have several slime-lisp-implementations?
16:26	the-kenny	ska2342: Yes, but it worked until now. I just updated swank-clojure to the latest version.
16:26	the-kenny	But it's a special case here.. I don't want to use elpa ;)
16:26	ska2342	the-kenny: I don't use elpa, too. The whole setup feels rather fragile.
16:27	ska2342	the-kenny: I'll take a quick look at latest commits
16:27	the-kenny	ska2342: Yes, I feel the same
16:28	ska2342	the-kenny: when did you do your last update? The latest commit seems to be from 2009-10-18
16:28	the-kenny	ska2342: Some weeks ago
16:28	the-kenny	3 or so
16:28	the-kenny	I'm a bit lazy at updating because it always breaks something on my setup :D
16:29	ska2342	the-kenny: what is the value of slime-lisp-implementations
16:30	the-kenny	ska2342: the sbcl-part and another part for clojure. I have a custom function run-clojure which starts a clojure-instance, but requiring swank fails there
16:30	ska2342	the-kenny: I always look there first. I set up everything so that slime uses the same clojure-shell-script I can use (and test!) from the command line.
16:31	hiredman	with paredit can I yank an s-expr from where it is and put it somewhere else?
16:31	the-kenny	Maybe I'll drop my setup again and start from scratch
16:31	the-kenny	Worked fine the last ~2 times
16:31	KirinDave_	hiredman: Yes.
16:31	ska2342	the-kenny. Ah, requiring swank. That was a problem. I seem to remember to have run mvn package or something and then added the target/swank-clojure-1.0-SNAPSHOT.jar to the -cp
16:31	hiredman	KirinDave_: please explaind how
16:31	KirinDave_	hiredman: Go to the start of the sexpr and hit ctl-k. Then you can yank it out. C-k only does one sexpr, not one line.
16:32	slyrus	hiredman: ^K and ^Y
16:32	hiredman	KirinDave_: C-k does the yanking or sets up for the yanking?
16:32	KirinDave_	hiredman: C-k does the killing.
16:32	hiredman	C-k C-y ?
16:32	KirinDave_	hiredman: And then it's in your kill ring.
16:32	KirinDave_	And then you can C-y at any time to yank the most recent kill ring entry out.
16:32	hiredman	I see
16:33	hiredman	kill-ring
16:33	hiredman	how superhero like
16:33	technomancy	hiredman: indeed. unfortunately M-x hide-body does not do what you might think.
16:33	KirinDave_	You might wanna do the basic emacs tutorials. Things like the kill ring are part of what makes emacs inordinately useful.
16:34	polypus	hiredman: peepcode has a pretty good emacs video too
16:35	the-kenny	Maybe I'll give up and use elpa... technomancy wins! ;) (No offense)
16:35	technomancy	the-kenny: cool. =) if it persists please bring it up on the swank-clojure mailing list. I don't even have sbcl installed myself, so it's good to hear from folks who use both.
16:36	the-kenny	technomancy: Okay.. I hope I don't have to change anything in my .emacs for sbcl if elpa installs slime for me..
16:40	polypus	i'm trying to make a test jar with lein jar and i'm getting Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ClassCastException: java.io.StringWriter (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0). any ideas?
16:44	the-kenny	technomancy: Okay, swank-clojure is installed now.. I'll try to bring slime with sbcl working now.
16:49	rullie	the heck there's a slime for clojure?
16:49	rullie	neat stuff
16:49	the-kenny	rullie: Sure
16:50	the-kenny	rullie: I'm sure it was one of the first "big" projects for clojure
16:50	ska2342	FTIW I just posted my setup to my site: http://www.skamphausen.de/cgi-bin/ska/My_Clojure_Setup works for me on Linux and OSX with current checkouts of swank-clojure, clojure-mode,current master of clojure, and a SLIME which is a few weeks behind.
16:51	rullie	ska2342: cool, i have the same setup. gonna try it tonight
16:51	the-kenny	technomancy: How can I bring slime-fuzzy to work with elpa?
16:56	the-kenny	technomancy: Nevermind.. just add slime-fuzzy.el to my load-path and do (slime-setup '(slime-fuzzy))
16:56	LauJensen	the-kenny: Whats fuzzy ?
16:57	dakrone	technomancy: is there a way to specify which ssh key to use when doing a 'lein push'?, it looks like leinigen isn't respecting ~/.ssh/config's option
16:57	the-kenny	LauJensen: Fuzzy-Completion for the slime repl. w-oTAB extends to with-open
16:57	LauJensen	ah ok
16:58	the-kenny	ok.. it doesn't work :(
16:59	LauJensen	Wonder how much it would speed things up anyway
17:00	the-kenny	LauJensen: I'm used to it
17:00	ska2342	LauJensen: fuzzy completion? It's a killer and your finger-brain will take even more control
17:02	LauJensen	Ok
17:02	ska2342	LauJensen: while the-kenny was already sending his answer, I was still typing mine. And had the w-oTAB example, too. I think that is the only one that I consciously know of (I found out about fuzzy completion with with-open-file in CL), all the others are in my fingers. Don't know how they work :-)
17:02	LauJensen	Common Lisp code, compared to Clojure is usally very verbose, so for SBCL its probably doing you some good, not sure how well it will fare in Clojure-land
17:09	lpetit	Hello, I would like some suggestions for implementing something in ccw: when a REPL is launched, a "ConsolePageParticipant" object (instance of some predefined interface) 's init() method is called. In this method, I have the opportunity to get the TCP port at which my "IDE backdoor" will install itself. But, there is no possibility to coordinate the call from the framework to my "ConsolePageParti
17:09	lpetit	cipant"'s init() implementation, and the availability of the information of the TCP port (very frequently, init() will be called before the info is available). In my init() method, though, is the opportunity to initiate the code to get the TCP port info for future uses, and also, to, as soon as possible (when the TCP info is needed), use the "IDE backdoor" to display a View on the...
17:09	lpetit	...available namespaces symbols.
17:12	lpetit	So my question is: is using a future a good solution ? The potential problem I can see is in the last sentence above : I would like to also initiate a use of my future, without blocking. I can see at least 2 possibilities :
17:12	lpetit	do this in the future body : (future (let [tcp-port (try-hard-get-tcp-port-potentially-sleep-and-loop)] (initialise-namespace-browser! tcp-port) tcp-port))
17:13	lpetit	or restrain the future body to the task of gathering the tcp-port, and in the code that creates and stores the future, launch another action (maybe via an agent ?) to asynchronously use the future ??
17:14	lpetit	If anybody more skilled than me in these problems can help ... you're very welcome, 'cause I'm circling, circling on it ...
17:15	spuz	lpetit: sounds like a pretty hacky way of doing it...
17:16	spuz	I guess there's no way to wait on a callback from the REPL when the TCP information is available?
17:16	lpetit	Well, I'm currently looking at the patch provided by Gorsal, and I'm indeed neither satisfied by the patch, neither satisfied by what i can think as an alternative ...
17:17	lpetit	Currently no, and I don't want to make Eclipse hang because of that (and if there's an initialization problem, sometimes Eclipse could hang forever .. :-( )
17:18	the-kenny	Hah, got slime-fuzzy working :)
17:18	ska2342	lpetit: "Eclipse could hang forever"? You're more a netbeans fan, then? :-)
17:19	lpetit	ska2342: anybody writing a plugin badly may break the underlying platform, I guess. Just trying not to do that.
17:20	ska2342	lpetit: just kidding, couldn't withstand that punchline
17:20	lpetit	:)
17:20	the-kenny	I recommend slime-fuzzy to everyone :)
17:20	spuz	lpetit: do you have gorsal's patch on github?
17:21	lpetit	ska2342: if you better would like to give me your ideas concerning how to do it :-)
17:22	ska2342	lpetit: sorry, me I'm no help with Eclipse and Java stuff. Just Emacs, nothing else.
17:23	spuz	lpetit: I found it: http://github.com/Eyaro/ccw/commit/06c00832f1c2e5c4a7c15d6de0f625ad6b0e8e7e#L7L1
17:23	lpetit	spuz: it's on his github clone ( git://github.com/Eyaro/ccw.git ). Beware there's a lot of noise inside it. But what it does is very simple : start a new thread, loop in the thread forever, with Thread.sleep pauses between 2 tries. Solves the problem. Exceptional issues not well covered, though.
17:24	spuz	lpetit: yeah, I see, you're suggesting replace the thread with a future but that doesn't really make it much more elegant :p
17:26	lpetit	spuz: a future can be cancelled (so we can call future-cancel on the dispose() method). But now that I think about it, I can also do a similar think by sharing the Thread reference
17:27	spuz	true, but when would cancel the future?
17:27	lpetit	ska2342: really, it's not an Eclipse problem. I gave the real context but I could have stated it more generally : In a thread A I want to start the computation of a value V. I also want some stuff S done as soon as possible as V is available. And I don't want to wait on thread A. What's the best way to code it ?
17:30	lpetit	spuz: on ConsolePageParticipant.dispose() call by the framework ( I guess this dispose() method corresponds to the end of the corresponding launched REPL
17:30	spuz	hmm ok
17:31	lpetit	Folks, I guess that by having written the word "Eclipse" I've frightened a lot of you, so let me point that this is not an Eclipse related problem, and restate it more generally:
17:31	lpetit	In a thread A I want to start the computation of a value V. I also want some stuff S done as soon as possible as V is available. And I don't want to wait on thread A. How would you do this ?
17:41	polypus	about to light my hair on fire. here are the exact steps i'm taking:
17:41	polypus	lein new foobar
17:41	polypus	edit foobar/project.clj to look like this:
17:41	the-kenny	technomancy: Looks like sbcl works flawlessly with swank-clojure from elpa :)
17:42	polypus	(defproject foobar "1.0.0-SNAPSHOT"
17:42	polypus	:description "foobar"
17:42	polypus	:dependencies [[org.clojure/clojure "1.1.0-alpha-SNAPSHOT"]])
17:42	polypus	mv src/foobar.clj src/foobar/core.clj
17:42	polypus	edit core.clj to look like this:
17:42	polypus	(ns foobar.core)
17:42	polypus
17:42	polypus	(defn barfoo [x] (str "foobar:" x))
17:43	polypus	lein repl works fine
17:43	polypus	lein compile seems to also
17:43	polypus	but lein jar fails with:
17:43	polypus	Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ClassCastException: java.io.StringWriter (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
17:44	polypus	any ideas?
17:45	gravity	polypus: Add a :main your_namespace section to project.clj
17:46	technomancy	polypus: on JDK 1.5? if so that was fixed yesterday in master.
17:46	tcrayford	I made something roughly like ruby's autotest with lein and some ruby scripting
17:46	tcrayford	http://www.tcrayford.net/2009/12/08/Lein-Autotest.html
17:47	tcrayford	uses watchr for changes to .clj files in /src or /test and then runs lein test, and colours the output for pass/fail
17:48	polypus	gravity, technomancy: ty i'll have a look in a minute
17:48	the-kenny	elpa is dumb...
17:49	the-kenny	Doesn't install any .lisp-files with slime
17:49	the-kenny	So the emacs-part of slime is working, but no backend for any lisp is installed
17:50	the-kenny	(they are normally bundleled with slime)
17:51	technomancy	the-kenny: yep; elpa is an elisp package manager. you should use a CL package manager for the CL bits, just like you use lein/mvn for swank-clojure.
17:51	konr	for some reason, I messed up with the number of parentheses and now everything I try to enter on SLIME results in a "input not complete" error. Is there a way to "reset" things and get a real repl again?
17:52	the-kenny	technomancy: mhm... I'm not sure if the backend for sbcl is in the package manager of CL
17:53	technomancy	the-kenny: what I mean is if it's not, that's a CL problem, not an elpa problem
17:53	the-kenny	technomancy: I understand you. It's just new for me. I'm used to have everything in my slime-tarball.
17:56	KirinDave1	Hey, if I'm at the repl
17:56	KirinDave1	How would I figure out the current working directory?
17:59	tcrayford	(use 'clojure.contrib.duck-streams)
17:59	tcrayford	(pwd)
17:59	KirinDave1	Man this is bizareew
18:00	KirinDave1	So I know my pwd is correct
18:00	KirinDave1	It's /Users/kirindave/Projects/scorekeeper/
18:00	KirinDave1	I know that under scorekeeper is a templates directory
18:00	KirinDave1	and in that is home.html
18:01	KirinDave1	But (reader "templates/home.html") refuses to read.
18:03	hiredman	hah!
18:03	KirinDave1	Oh
18:04	KirinDave1	In java, you can't change the current working directory?
18:04	KirinDave1	...
18:04	KirinDave1	What kind of insanity is that?
18:06	Chousuke	hiredman: working on a compiler now? :P
18:06	the-kenny	KirinDave1: Blame sun
18:09	tcrayford	KirinDave1: eval this (str (pwd) "templates/home.html")
18:10	KirinDave1	tcrayford: I was under the impression you could change the current working directory
18:12	dnolen	KirinDave1: nope, massive limitation of Java. I often create a var called cwd so that I can using binding on it to get around the annoyances.
18:12	KirinDave1	So when you're developing on the repl
18:12	KirinDave1	how the hell do you even get to files?
18:13	dnolen	you could even make a function called cwd that either returns the standard current directory (whatever the JVM thinks) or the values of cwd
18:13	slyrus	KirinDave1: change the classpath and restart the JVM :P
18:13	KirinDave1	slyrus: For things like templates.
18:13	dnolen	values -> value
18:13	KirinDave1	slyrus: That seems pretty lame.
18:14	slyrus	I agree!
18:15	KirinDave1	argh and enlive stopped working for me again. Seriously, I quit.
18:16	KirinDave1	cgrand-r1c: I don't suppose you're still here?
18:18	dnolen	KirinDave1: what's the bug you're seeing? I messed around with Enlive quite a lot at one point.
18:18	KirinDave1	dnolen: All deftemplate ever says is "null pointer exception"
18:18	KirinDave1	So I have no idea.
18:18	dnolen	paste your template, I'll take a look.
18:21	KirinDave1	dnolen: both template and invocation are here: https://gist.github.com/dd83a434403e29fdf09d
18:23	dnolen	try (str templates-dir "home.html") -> (file templates-dir "home.html"), use clojure.contrib.java-utils to get file, gotta head out but will tweak your gist when I get back.
18:24	technomancy	the-kenny: heh; thanks.
18:24	technomancy	KirinDave1: I'd recommend putting templates in the resources/ dir. if you use leiningen that will get put on your classpath, plus it'll be available transparently when you run from a jar if you open it via getResourceAsStream.
18:27	KirinDave1	technomancy: So like, resources/templates/home.html instead?
18:27	technomancy	sure
18:28	KirinDave1	technomancy: But that doesn't change my opening problem, right?
18:29	KirinDave1	technomancy: And that is only available during the jar'd state, not during dev on the repl?
18:31	technomancy	KirinDave1: no, if resources/ is on the classpath, getResourceAsStream will find it.
18:33	KirinDave1	technomancy: I'll try it. Thanks.
18:36	technomancy	welcome to the wacky wonderful world of the jvm
18:36	KirinDave1	technomancy: … I loathe to ask this, but where do I call that method from, even
18:37	technomancy	oh right... it's a bit wordy: (.getResourceAsStream (.getContextClassLoader (Thread/currentThread)) "/templates/home.html")
18:37	KirinDave1	Well, there's hardly anything to it, now is there?
18:39	konr	Has anyone ever tried to change swing's look and feel? This code, removed from an example, simply yields a null pointer exception:
18:39	konr	(javax.swing.UIManager/setLookAndFeel (javax.swing.UIManager/getSystemLookAndFeelClassName))
18:41	KirinDave1	technomancy: I wish it worked, but it doesn't seem to.
18:52	hiredman	http://gist.github.com/252110 yay macros!
18:57	replaca_	technomancy: I'm glad you guys got the resource stuff in - I was worrying about that re: autodoc (cause I want to stash the default styles and templates in there as resources)
18:57	cp2_	hiredman: watcha' making?
19:01	hiredman	cp2: my goal is to replace classloader.java with something generated using the asm package
19:02	cp2	interesting
19:03	cp2	what for?
19:03	hiredman	uh, so I don't have to write it in java?
19:04	cp2	heh, would be a good reason =P
19:19	dysinger	KirinDave:
19:19	dysinger	user> (System/getProperty "user.dir")
19:20	dysinger	"/Users/tim/src/sa-safe/amqp/src/main/clojure/sonian/archive"
19:20	dysinger	user> (System/setProperty "user.dir" "temp")
19:20	dysinger	"/Users/tim/src/sa-safe/amqp/src/main/clojure/sonian/archive"
19:20	dysinger	user> (System/getProperty "user.dir")
19:20	dysinger	"temp"
19:20	dysinger	user>
19:20	dysinger	?
19:21	dysinger	changes cwd
19:22	dysinger	works with (pwd)
20:19	polypus	technomancy: btw, that lein problem i had was cuz of jdk 1.5 like you said. not sure why being that a 64 bit 1.6 version was already installed, apple chose to make the default a 32 bit 1.5.
20:23	konr	How can I round 3.14159 to 3.1416?
20:24	rullie	konr: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/data/numberformat.html
20:28	konr	lr be
20:29	konr	*or better yet: http://richhickey.github.com/clojure-contrib/pprint-api.html#clojure.contrib.pprint/cl-format
21:22	konr	is there a macro that could replace [(function foo) (function bar) (function baz) ...] with (macro function foo bar baz ...)?
21:27	kylesmith	(vec (map function [foo bar baz]))
21:30	kylesmith	Has anyone gotten penumbra to work? I can't get the libraries to stop throwing exceptions.
21:31	konr	oh, of course
21:31	ambient	yep, got it working a while ago
21:31	ambient	at least all the exmples
21:40	JAS415	kylesmith: yup, got it working
21:40	JAS415	what is the exception
21:43	kylesmith	one moment, let me try one more thing.
21:46	kylesmith	com.sun.gluegen.runtime.CPU.getPointerSizeInBits
21:48	JAS415	hmm
21:48	JAS415	is it a particular example?
21:48	kylesmith	the actual exception is an UnsatisfiedLinkError if that helps
21:48	JAS415	oh
21:49	JAS415	you might not have all the deps installed
21:50	kylesmith	it's for all examples. I have all the jars on my classpath, and all the *.so files are on my libpath.
21:52	kylesmith	what other dependencies are there?
21:53	JAS415	i had
21:53	ambient	clojure, clojure-contrib
21:53	JAS415	glugen.jar, jogl.jar
21:53	ambient	you sure you have the right binaries?
21:53	ambient	there are 32 and 64 bit versions iirc
21:53	JAS415	nativewindow
21:54	ambient	depends on the JVM, which you will need
21:54	kylesmith	yes, I have the right binaries (that is a different error message).
21:54	kylesmith	I'm on 32bit ubuntu, btw.
21:55	kylesmith	JAS415: yes, I have all those.
21:56	JAS415	hum
21:56	JAS415	the only problem i had was getting the names of directories right
21:56	JAS415	i'm on ubuntu too :-(
21:58	kylesmith	32bit or 64bit?
21:58	JAS415	i think this is 64
22:00	JAS415	you pointed at the directory for the java.library.path and not the individual *.so files?
22:02	kylesmith	well, actually I 'cheated' and just copied the individual files to a directory already on the libpath.
22:06	KirinDave1	Hey, does anyone here use leiningen and the resources/ directory? I'm having problem accessing resources.
22:07	JAS415	kyle: can you do a backtrace on the error?
22:07	JAS415	might give you a class or filename
22:08	kylesmith	I just got it to work on the 64bit machine. I didn't see the additional library paths in swank-clojure.el before.
22:09	JAS415	hmm
22:09	kylesmith	hence, I thought I could just copy the files, but apparently that doesn't work.
22:10	JAS415	i think there is an extra jar
22:10	kylesmith	I count 3 jars and 5 *.so files. ?
22:11	JAS415	opencl4 java
22:11	JAS415	5 jar 5 so
22:11	JAS415	4 jar*
22:13	kylesmith	I was looking at that, but A. I don't need opencl and B. it isn't mentioned anywhere in the installation instructions. Are you saying OpenCL4Java.jar is actually needed?
22:16	JAS415	hum
22:20	kylesmith	What kind of bothers me is that the installation instructions explicitly state that what I was attempting to do was acceptable.
22:21	kylesmith	anyhow, thanks for the help JAS415
22:22	JAS415	yeah i'm not sure what happened there
22:22	JAS415	glad you at least have it working on one machine :-)
22:23	kylesmith	no, it's working on both now :) Thanks again.
22:23	JAS415	oh
22:23	JAS415	good
22:23	JAS415	even better
22:45	konr	What should I use to generate an exe from a Lein uberjar?
23:24	polypus	,'just-testing
23:24	clojurebot	just-testing
23:29	hiredman	~ping
23:29	clojurebot	PONG!
23:30	hiredman	so, I can generate a classloader using clojure.asm.* and it has a loaders field which contains an arraylist and an add method that takes a ClassLoader and adds it to the list
23:31	hiredman	now I just need to override findClass