#clojure – 2009-11-09

2009-11-09

00:13	technomancy	is it kosher to use org.clojure for the groupId of your own projects?
00:14	technomancy	or should you only use a domain if it's one you are associated with?
00:26	technomancy	are "Don't know how to create ISeq from: Keyword" errors when AOTing code that works fine otherwise indicative of a certain type of problem?
00:26	_ato	technomancy: better to use your own. same if you're going to use a domain as your namespace. If you don't have a domain you could just use youaccountname.github.com
00:26	technomancy	definitely not going to use my own domain
00:27	technomancy	since the only reason I'm changing it is that the previous author used his own domain, and he's not involved in the project any more. =P
00:28	technomancy	using a domain as a namespace is totally unnecessary; if your name is not unique without your domain, then you should pick a better name to begin with.
00:28	_ato	yeah, I agree
00:28	technomancy	it's a curious custom
00:29	_ato	but maven kind of forces it on you
00:29	_ato	it makes sense from a name collision purity standpoint, but it's damn ugly
00:29	technomancy	we had a few days of checkin freeze on one team at my last job to switch over the code base from a company we'd acquired just to get rid of the old domain
00:29	djork	few days? s/old-domain/new-domain/g
00:30	technomancy	djork: java devs... what can you do. (I wasn't working on that project myself.)
00:30	djork	heh
00:30	technomancy	_ato: maven forces you to use a group ID, but that's it; it's only convention that says it must be a domain.
00:30	technomancy	lots of projects use their name as their group ID too
00:31	_ato	yeah but to get uploaded to maven central repo you must have a domain
00:31	_ato	I know some don't
00:32	_ato	but that was because they were uploaded before they made that policy
00:32	technomancy	ah, that's a shame
00:40	technomancy	I'm seeing long pauses at the end of the "compile" cycle with clojure-maven-plugin
00:40	technomancy	no CPU, disk, or network usage
00:40	_ato	Thread.sleep(10); // coffee break
00:40	_ato	:p
00:41	technomancy	also it appears you can't have (:use (clojure.main :only [repl])) in your ns; you have to use [clojure.main :only [repl]]... didn't realize there was a difference between the paren version and the bracket version.
00:42	_ato	yeah, I want something that works just as easily as Ruby's gems. which aren't as fancy or complicated as maven but for some reason they just work a whole lot better
00:44	technomancy	by work a lot better, do you just mean that they don't require any XML and don't invent a lot of new words?
00:46	technomancy	you just have to laugh that someone actually thought calling the file a "project object model dot extensible markup language" was a good idea. there are six words in that phrase, and only one of them is relevant.
00:47	_ato	yeah that and it's really easy to get things into the central repository (http://gemcutter.org/)
00:48	_ato	and you don't need to fuss around with version numbers when you just don't care
00:49	technomancy	_ato: not needing to fuss about version numbers is nice up front, but nearly always causes problems in the long-term for projects that break backwards compatibility.
00:49	technomancy	but otherwise I am in agreement
00:54	technomancy	I have been playing with hudson at work, and I think it would not be hard to make a central repo for clojure projects at large.
04:10	piccolino	If you call seq on something that's already a sequence, does that create an extra object, or does it just return itself?
04:12	_ato	piccolino: just return itself
04:12	piccolino	Thanks.
07:37	ol3	hello, how do I convert an java map to a clojure map?
07:38	liwp	ol3: try (into {} <your java map>)
07:38	liwp	ol3: you can use the java map like a clojure map in most places, IIRC
07:38	eevar2	better yet; don't, unless you must
07:40	liwp	,(get (System/getProperties) "os.arch")
07:40	clojurebot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.util.PropertyPermission * read,write)
07:40	liwp	blah
07:40	liwp	anyhow, java maps (and hashtables) can be used anywhere where you would use a clojure map
07:41	hiredman	erm
07:41	hiredman	I don't believe conj will work on a java map
07:42	liwp	hiredman: true
07:43	hiredman	and into uses conj (conj! on master I guess)
07:44	liwp	hiredman: but in the into example above we're using conj with a clojure map and we seq the java map
07:44	hiredman	indeed
07:44	liwp	(into {} (System/getProperties)) definitely works
07:44	hiredman	sure
07:44	hiredman	the reverse would not
07:44	liwp	agreed
07:45	liwp	so let's say that a java map can be used in place of a clojure map if it's being observed (i.e. not constructed / modified), would that be more accurate?
07:46	hiredman	I suppose
07:46	hiredman	but really you aren't using a map in that into example, you are using something seq returns a seq for
07:46	liwp	yep
07:47	hiredman	anyway :P
07:47	liwp	;)
07:53	cemerick	cgrand set me straight on this a while ago, but is it the case that host invocations in -> can't be hinted?
07:53	AWizzArd	rhickey: there now is a bug in reading deftypes where a field name contains a "-"?
07:54	AWizzArd	For example (deftype foo [a b some-key])
07:54	cemerick	AWizzArd: java names are necessary at this point
07:54	hiredman	- is not valide in java names
07:54	AWizzArd	when I then make a (foo 1 2 3) I can access (:a my-foo) but not (:some-key my-foo)
07:54	AWizzArd	cemerick: oki, I see
07:55	cemerick	there are apparently plans to resolve that, but probably a low priority right now
07:55	AWizzArd	however, ((keyword "some-key") my-foo) works :)
07:56	AWizzArd	also (get my-foo :some-key)
07:56	cemerick	yes, the issue is in the generation of the 'native' callsite associated with keyword lookup
07:56	hiredman	only literal keywords get the fast path to field access
08:02	cgrand	cemerick: http://www.assembla.com/spaces/clojure/tickets/205-Preserve-type-hints-set-on-inlined-or-interop-forms has a patch for that
08:03	cemerick	ah-ha
08:04	cemerick	I thought I was going nuts.
08:04	cgrand	if you pick this patch don't forget http://www.assembla.com/spaces/clojure/tickets/206-make----and-----metadata-aware, they taste great together
08:04	cemerick	wow, that patch requires compiler changes. That's a little surprising.
08:05	cemerick	thankfully, I don't do much with arrays :-)
08:05	cemerick	I just get tripped up on 205 every time I touch ByteBuffers, etc.
08:08	rhickey	cgrand: both patches approved, should go in soon
08:09	cgrand	rhickey: cool, thanks
08:09	rhickey	hrm, someone tweeted "Clojure makes easy things hard, and hard things easy" :(
08:10	AWizzArd	there will be more such misconceptions in the future
08:10	eevar2	fits better for haskell :p
08:11	cemerick	rhickey: I can see that, esp. for typical Java folk.
08:11	the-kenny	rhickey: You should ask what's an "easy thing" in clojure :)
08:12	chouser	If you're used to imperative with mutable everything, trying to rewire your brain for functional and immutable does take real effort.
08:12	the-kenny	chouser: That's true.
08:12	Fossi	well, it's surely a bit hard for some people (me incl) to get their heads wrapped around their data instead of doing things imperatively
08:12	Fossi	so i can see that part
08:12	the-kenny	But this isn't a problem of clojure.
08:12	cemerick	that, and clojure does not lend itself to any kind of copy/paste coding, which is outrageously common
08:12	rhickey	yes, I'd hope this is more of a speedbump/learning curve thing than a persisting property once you are familiar with it
08:13	Fossi	and of course clojure is cool for more complex things you want to do to that data afterwards
08:13	Fossi	rhickey: from my experience, that's the case
08:14	Fossi	and then you even start to carry the goodness over to javascript and write functional code there as well :)
08:14	the-kenny	rhickey: I had this problem with Common Lisp.. After CL, I've used Haskell. The switch from haskell/cl was very easy.
08:14	the-kenny	I tried switching from Common Lisp to Clojure some time ago, but it was hard because of the immutable data structures.
08:15	the-kenny	After haskell, everything was easy and clear :)
08:16	esj	for me, rank noob, the problem has been having to travel from clojure into another language to get in depth texts on the new concepts clojure employs, and then translate them back. Effort. This will soon go away as stuff gets written / published.
08:17	cemerick	This is one helluva self-selected group, though. Walk into an insurance co or whatever, and people will quite simply blanch at the sight of something like clojure. That's the other end of the spectrum, but hints at what's going on the back of the mind of the "typical developer".
08:19	rhickey	cemerick: yes, I'm sure Clojure will never be for everyone. Sticking with Lisp was an early decision that sealed that. OTOH, it is interesting to see, given people's broader exposure to other things (vs e.g. when Java was trying to convert C folks), how big the potential base might be
08:20	ambalek	the trick is getting people to try it
08:20	cemerick	it helps a lot that we're well past the point where it's really difficult to get work done if you're using tools that are outside of what "the industry standard" is.
08:21	cemerick	lots of langs will have 15% "market share" as things go along. Lots of good and bad aspects to that, although if we can all agree to stay on some managed platform (jvm/clr), that'll mitigate a lot of the downside.
08:26	ambalek	someone should make a 'try clojure' sandbox
08:26	eevar2	isn't that what clojurebot is for? ;)
08:26	ambalek	clojurebot: get on the web will you?
08:26	clojurebot	I don't understand.
08:26	ambalek	oh you will
08:27	liwp	is there a web version of clojurebot? I remember there was a web version of Ruby's irb at some point so one could try Ruby by just playing with the web repl
08:27	ambalek	yeah
08:27	ambalek	'try ruby'
08:27	liwp	~google try ruby
08:27	clojurebot	First, out of 5510000 results is:
08:27	clojurebot	try ruby! (in your browser)
08:27	clojurebot	http://tryruby.sophrinix.com/
08:27	ambalek	_why made it
08:27	ttmrichter	How about porting Clojure to the NekoVM back end?
08:27	liwp	ambalek: yeah, that's right
08:27	tomoj	huh I didn't know someone had resurrected it
08:28	ttmrichter	I'll get my own hat and coat, thank you. :)
08:49	chouser	piccolino: a "seq" is just an interface, so it could depend on the type of object. But generaly, calling seq on a seq will return itself: http://tinyurl.com/yckufcq/src/jvm/clojure/lang/ASeq.java#L106
09:57	Nathell	hello
09:57	Nathell	has anyone used Ring with Slime?
10:08	esj	yes
10:13	ayal	Hello. I am working on emacs with slime and was wondering if there exists a way to evaluate multiple files at once.
10:16	esj	another question, please: how do I lookup what :: means. (doc '::) fails, not surprisingly.
10:17	chouser	esj: a good place to start for punctuantion-y things like that is http://agriffis.n01se.net/misc/20091109-10:15:12.png
10:17	chouser	no
10:17	chouser	not that
10:17	chouser	try here: http://clojure.org/reader
10:18	esj	:)
10:18	esj	thank-you chouser.
10:19	chouser	ayal: I don't know slime, but you can have a .clj file with a bunch of (load-file "foo.clj") for various foos
10:21	esj	ah. :: means resolve symbol in current namespace.
10:21	chouser	keyword. yes.
10:21	esj	ayal: or if you prefer brutality you can copy paste the smaller into the clojure process...
10:22	esj	keyword, yes - sorry, I'm still getting over my ruby infestation, where things starting with : are called symbols.
10:23	skillet-thief	hi. are there some run time errors that can't be caught with try/catch?
10:24	skillet-thief	here is what i am doing : http://pastebin.com/m69d2137b
10:24	skillet-thief
10:24	skillet-thief
10:25	ayal	chouser: I am working on a remote server using swank. I think load-file would not work for me.
10:26	chouser	ayal: ah, I see.
10:28	chouser	skillet-thief: it's probably laziness tripping you up
10:28	skillet-thief	chouser: ah!
10:28	chouser	skillet-thief: heh. let me know if you need more hints.
10:29	skillet-thief	chouser: I'll have to think about that one.
10:30	chouser	there are two kinds of scope, right? lexical and dynamic. They interact in complex ways.
10:30	skillet-thief	right...
10:30	chouser	try/catch is dynamic, lazy seqs (since they're built on closures) are lexical
10:31	skillet-thief	ok, so somehow the exception I'm trying to catch is out of scope.
10:31	chouser	hm. actually thinking about the lexical scope in this case doesn't help much.
10:32	chouser	skillet-thief: right. any work that's done to build the lazy-seq while you're still inside the try/catch can throw exceptions that get caught.
10:32	skillet-thief	so it looks like the exception that gets caught is caught because the input is rejected immediately before the parsing starts.
10:33	chouser	but once you pass that lazy seq out of the try/catch and on to something else that consumes it (for example the printer at the repl), errors caused then are no longer in your try/catch
10:33	skillet-thief	ok, that makes sense. I suspected the repl was involved somemhow.
10:34	skillet-thief	so I should wrap in a doseq or something like that?
10:35	chouser	hm...
10:37	chouser	parse-trim returns a map, so just forcing the top level won't help.
10:37	chouser	this is a complication I hadn't considered.
10:38	chouser	what do you intend to do with the results?
10:39	skillet-thief	sorry, had to step away.
10:39	chouser	if you just do that work inside the try/catch, then any errors thrown will be caught, but any errors that would be caused by later unparsed parts of the input can just be ignored.
10:40	skillet-thief	that might work. I am trying to sanitize html input. If the parse fails I want to output straight text instead.
10:40	chouser	oh
10:41	chouser	(doto (lx/parse-trim rdr) (-> :content doall))
10:41	chouser	I think that'll force reading of the whole input
10:42	chouser	since it can't know it's gotten to the last top-level element until it's parsed to the end of the input
10:44	skillet-thief	ok, that works I think.
10:44	skillet-thief	the error gets caught anyway.
10:46	skillet-thief	all right, thanks. I'm going to go read the docs to try to understand why that works. (It's great talking to the package author about my little problems :-)
10:46	chouser	no so great being the author of a package full of little problems. :-P
10:47	chouser	but I'm happy to help! :-)
11:11	ol3	hello, i want to specialize on the second argument of a multimethod.
11:12	ol3	(defmulti f [x y] (fn [x y] (class y)))
11:12	ol3	is this the way to do it?
11:12	arsatiki	seems sane
11:14	ol3	thank you, now i need the type of all types, T?
11:15	ol3	,(class "str")
11:15	clojurebot	java.lang.String
11:15	ol3	,(class (class "str"))
11:15	clojurebot	java.lang.Class
11:16	ol3	,(class (class (class "str")))
11:16	clojurebot	java.lang.Class
11:18	arohner	ol3: what do you mean type of all types?
11:18	arohner	do you mean a generic type?
11:20	ol3	arohner: the supertype of every object
11:20	arohner	java.lang.Object
11:20	ol3	thank you :)
11:42	ol3	sorry for spamming this room but i get this error:
11:42	ol3	The syntax for defmulti has changed. Example: (defmulti name dispatch-fn :default dispatch-value)
11:43	hiredman	ol3: well, it did
11:43	ol3	so no parameters?
11:43	hiredman	what do mean?
11:44	hiredman	defmulti never took "parameters"
11:46	ol3	hm
11:46	ol3	you're right
11:56	ol3	but it did not work either
11:57	ol3	i want to specialize on String and Throwable
11:57	ol3	but
11:57	ol3	,(class "string")
11:57	clojurebot	java.lang.String
11:57	ol3	works
11:58	hiredman	multimethods are very flexible, so just saying "I want to specialize on String and Throwable" is too broad
12:02	lisppaste8	Chouser pasted "defmulti/defmethod for ol3" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90045
12:04	hiredman	:(
12:04	hiredman	(comp type first list)
12:06	ol3	chouser: it works thank you
12:07	ol3	(defmethod handle-response [Object Throwable] [exchange throwable] ...)
12:07	ol3	vs
12:07	ol3	(defmethod handle-response Throwable [exchange throwable] ...)
12:07	chouser	hiredman: you really do think (fn [x y] (type y)) is less clear than (comp type first list)?
12:08	hiredman	chouser: you want the type of the first thing from a list of things
12:08	ol3	(comp type second list)
12:08	hiredman	or second
12:08	chouser	actually, that's not the same at all. were you talking about seomthing else?
12:08	hiredman	chouser: :(
12:08	chouser	I want the type of the second arg
12:08	hiredman	not paying close enough attention
12:09	chouser	oh well. lunchtime. :-)
12:10	hiredman	~apologize for me
12:10	clojurebot	mea culpa!
13:00	replaca_	First cut of the "up-to-date" clojure core doc robot output up at http://tomfaulhaber.github.com/clojure/
13:03	piccolino	chouser: thanks for the clarification on seqs.
13:06	technomancy	replaca_: looks great!
13:06	replaca_	technomancy: thanks!
13:07	hiredman	my first reaction was "holy crap, there is a lot of stuff in core" my second reaction was "is that all there is in core?"
13:07	replaca_	:-)
13:08	fogus	replaca_: Is it possible to aggregate the functions/forms like so http://jtra.cz/stuff/lisp/sclr/index.html
13:09	hiredman	fogus: have you seen the cheatsheet?
13:09	somnium	replaca_: while asking for ponies, would a wiki version with extended examples/docs be possible?
13:09	fogus	replaca_: I have
13:10	the-kenny	I like this reference.
13:10	replaca_	fogus: not unless we add that info to the source. The documentation is built from source so relies on the metadata on the vars
13:10	replaca_	fogus: if there were a taxonomy applied their, it would be easy to push it through to the docs
13:11	replaca_	*their => there
13:11	fogus	replaca_: That's what I thought. Not trying to play down your robot's output, it looks great. :)
13:12	replaca_	somnium: in theory, but we'd need a place to put the wiki, etc. I'm happy to add it, if folks come up wit a way they want to do it
13:12	somnium	replaca_: indeed, its awesome already
13:13	replaca_	fogus: I'm all for the taxonomy, btw, I just worry about bit rot since the robot tracks the source automatically without me doing anything
13:13	fogus	replaca_: Understood
13:13	replaca_	so I'd like it to be attached to the source just like the doc is
13:14	replaca_	which means (for clojure-core) Rich needs to sign up for it
13:29	piccolino	I'm looking at duck-streams, and I am wondering about the variables defined at the top, like buffer-size. Is that variable going to be shared by all threads? Assuming that you wanted to read from multiple-streams concurrently, would they all need to have the same buffer size?
13:29	somnium	piccolino: you can set thread-local bindings with binding
13:30	danlarkin	piccolino: you can alter-var-root, but consider that a last resort
13:31	piccolino	So with binding, you could redefine buffer-size and then run a function with that new definition being used?
13:31	technomancy	danlarkin: you really shouldn't tell people about that. =)
13:31	danlarkin	technomancy: :-o
13:32	technomancy	"By the way, there's a shotgun in the closet which you can use to shoot that thing (or possibly your foot), but you didn't hear that from me."
13:33	technomancy	piccolino: you run your function that needs the new value of buffer-size inside the binding form. once it exits buffer-size will be returned to its original value.
13:33	piccolino	And other threads using the same code will not see that value?
13:34	somnium	http://clojure.org/Vars
13:34	somnium	I'm wondering, what is the difference between binding and a set! done in a function body? is set! lexically bound? (I've never used set! on a var)
13:35	technomancy	set! only works inside a binding call IIRC
13:36	cemerick	set! works on any var that has a non-root binding
13:37	cemerick	you don't need to be within the lexical scope of binding...that'd make set! and bindings far less useful
13:39	technomancy	right; same thing FSVO "inside"
13:39	cemerick	yeah, I only mentioned lexical scope because somnium did :-)
13:40	cemerick	technomancy: FSVO?
13:40	technomancy	For Some Value Of
13:40	cemerick	ah
13:41	leafw	any "filter" function that iterates a sequence and returns true if a query eleemnt is found?
13:41	leafw	short of creating a set from it?
13:41	technomancy	,(doc any?)
13:41	clojurebot	I don't understand.
13:42	the-kenny	hm... I think I need a better understanding of the difference between binding and let... Can someone give me some hints?
13:42	somnium	thanks for the answers (and the wtf package in emacs is great for acronyms btw) :-)
13:44	leafw	,(doc any?)
13:44	clojurebot	Huh?
13:44	leafw	technomancy: ?
13:45	technomancy	~(doc any?)
13:45	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
13:45	technomancy	coulda sworn that was defined. I guess you should just use "some".
13:46	maravillas	there's not-any?
13:46	technomancy	...which always stood out as a particularly poorly-named function. I presume because it was taken from CL?
13:46	maravillas	but it doesn't look like there's an any?
13:46	cemerick	,(doc some)
13:46	clojurebot	"([pred coll]); Returns the first logical true value of (pred x) for any x in coll, else nil. One common idiom is to use a set as pred, for example this will return true if :fred is in the sequence, otherwise nil: (some #{:fred} coll)"
13:47	leafw	,(doc not-any?)
13:47	clojurebot	"([pred coll]); Returns false if (pred x) is logical true for any x in coll, else true."
13:48	leafw	ok, "some" is what I wanted.
13:48	leafw	thanks.
13:56	technomancy	,(seq (.split "hey.jude" "."))
13:56	clojurebot	nil
13:56	technomancy	,(seq (.split "hey jude" " "))
13:56	clojurebot	("hey" "jude")
13:56	technomancy	what's going on there?
13:57	technomancy	is it treating the "." argument like a regex for some reason?
14:00	hiredman	split takes a regex
14:00	hiredman	just as a string
14:01	hiredman	becuase java doesn't have regex literals
14:01	technomancy	loverly, thanks.
14:26	chouser	,(seq (.split #"\." "hey.jude"))
14:26	clojurebot	("hey" "jude")
14:27	technomancy	chouser: even better not to have to double-escape; thanks
14:36	fradiavalo	xb
14:45	chouser	technomancy: it was long after I had been using String.split that I found Pattern.split. I generally prefer it as well, so I try to help others shorten that gap. :-)
15:03	Kjellski	Good evening...
15:11	jfields	how do I do Foo.class in clojure?
15:11	jfields	(Foo/class) didn't seem to work.
15:12	chouser	jfields: just Foo
15:12	jfields	right. sorry. thanks.
15:12	pdrummond	Is this the right place to ask about Compojure?
15:13	hiredman	pdrummond: there is a google group for compojure, but feel free to ask away
15:15	pdrummond	Yeah, looking on the group now but still confused! It has it's own deps.zip - you know if the clojure jar it uses is clojure 1.0?
15:15	hiredman	pdrummond: I believe so
15:16	hiredman	theres always that var
15:16	hiredman	,clojure-version
15:16	clojurebot	{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 1, :incremental 0, :qualifier "alpha"}
15:17	pdrummond	I'm just starting with clojure again after a break. Got clojure/slime installed really easy then I installed Compojure without any problems. But if I do (ns hello-world (:use compojure)) I get a NoClassDefFoundError
15:17	the-kenny	pdrummond: Classpath correct?
15:19	hiredman	~namespaces
15:19	clojurebot	namespaces are (more or less, Chouser) java packages. they look like foo.bar; and corresponde to a directory foo/ containg a file bar.clj in your classpath. the namespace declaration in bar.clj would like like (ns foo.bar). Do not try to use single segment namespaces. a single segment namespace is a namespace without a period in it
15:19	hiredman	the fact that compojure has that single segment name is rather annoying
15:19	pdrummond	well - (System/getProperty "java.class.path") shows compojure.jar but my slime config uses a different clojure.jar and clojure-contrib.jar.
15:20	hiredman	pdrummond: what is the full text of the exception?
15:20	pdrummond	0: java.lang.Class.forName0(Native Method)
15:20	pdrummond	1: java.lang.Class.forName(Class.java:264)
15:20	pdrummond	2: clojure.lang.RT.loadClassForName(RT.java:1499)
15:20	pdrummond	3: clojure.lang.RT.load(RT.java:385)
15:21	pdrummond	4: clojure.lang.RT.load(RT.java:367)
15:21	pdrummond	5: clojure.core$load__5058$fn__5061.invoke(core.clj:3734)
15:21	pdrummond	6: clojure.core$load__5058.doInvoke(core.clj:3733)
15:21	pdrummond	7: clojure.lang.RestFn.invoke(RestFn.java:413)
15:21	pdrummond	8: clojure.core$load_one__5010.invoke(core.clj:3578)
15:21	pdrummond	9: clojure.core$load_lib__5031.doInvoke(core.clj:3615)
15:21	pdrummond	10: clojure.lang.RestFn.applyTo(RestFn.java:147)
15:21	pdrummond	11: clojure.core$apply__3243.doInvoke(core.clj:390)
15:21	pdrummond	12: clojure.lang.RestFn.invoke(RestFn.java:443)
15:21	pdrummond	13: clojure.core$load_libs__5043.doInvoke(core.clj:3641)
15:21	pdrummond	14: clojure.lang.RestFn.applyTo(RestFn.java:142)
15:21	pdrummond	15: clojure.core$apply__3243.doInvoke(core.clj:390)
15:21	pdrummond	16: clojure.lang.RestFn.invoke(RestFn.java:460)
15:21	the-kenny	pdrummond: Too much text
15:21	pdrummond	17: clojure.core$use__5052.doInvoke(core.clj:3711)
15:21	hiredman	:(
15:21	the-kenny	Use lisppaste
15:21	pdrummond	18: clojure.lang.RestFn.invoke(RestFn.java:413)
15:21	pdrummond	19: pd$eval__3615.invoke(NO_SOURCE_FILE:1)
15:21	hiredman	pastebin
15:21	pdrummond
15:21	pdrummond	Sorry! New to ERC as well! :(
15:21	hiredman	ok
15:22	hiredman	that is the slime whatever
15:22	the-kenny	lisppaste8: url
15:22	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
15:22	hiredman	I was sorting up hoping for a real stack trace
15:22	hiredman	s/up/of/
15:22	pdrummond	Opps o_O!
15:22	hiredman	maybe someone who uses slime can tell you how to get one
15:23	pdrummond	Going to try making Compojure and Slime use the same jars. 2 Mins...
15:28	pdrummond	Anyone know how to restart Slime and have it pick up new vars? slime-restart-inferior-lisp doesn't seem to do it?
15:29	technomancy	pdrummond: re-running M-x swank-clojure-project should do it
15:29	pdrummond	technomancy: never used that - it's asking me for a Project root??
15:30	technomancy	pdrummond: that's the easy way; you shouldn't have to manage your classpath by hand if you use it.
15:30	technomancy	it'll pick up on all the jars in lib/ in your project root for you
15:31	pdrummond	Ahhh - thanks! Will look into that.
16:00	pdrummond	hi back! Anyone know why swank-clojure-project hangs on me?
16:00	tomoj	pdrummond: do you have clojure.jar in lib/ or target/dependency?
16:01	danlarkin	pdrummond: it hangs for me too. I do: M-x-:
16:01	danlarkin	and then (swank-clojure-project "...")
16:01	pdrummond	:tomoj yep
16:03	pdrummond	danlarkin: sorry, M-x-: ?
16:03	pdrummond	danlarkin: Not sure what you mean
16:03	danlarkin	pdrummond: M-x-: is bound to eval-expression
16:04	danlarkin	so you could do M-x eval-expression also
16:06	pdrummond	I see - doesn't seem to be working - just says "Polling /tmp/slime..." but nothing happens!
16:06	danlarkin	switch to your inferior lisp buffer and see if it has a stacktrace
16:07	pdrummond	danlarkin: Ah! ClassNotFoundException: clojure.main. More classpath woes! Will look into it, thanks.
16:07	pdrummond	Sorry - NoClassDefFoundError
16:08	danlarkin	pdrummond: are you using a maven project layout? maybe you need to symlink target/dependency/ to lib/?
16:09	danlarkin	until the next release of swank-clojure
16:09	danlarkin	I think :)
16:11	pdrummond	danlarkin: no I was using lib.
16:14	wavis__	\nick wavis
16:16	djork	what's the deal with pr and fns
16:16	djork	if I get a fn caught up in my data structure, it prints an unreadable form
16:18	hiredman	correct
16:18	hiredman	so don't
16:33	kefka	,(binding [+ *] (+ 3 4))
16:33	clojurebot	7
16:33	kefka	So I can't locally re-bind a function. Hmm.
16:33	kefka	I couldn't on my repl either.
16:34	Chousuke	yes you can
16:34	danlarkin	kefka: + has inlines defined
16:34	kefka	How do I do it? What's wrong with what I'm doing above?
16:34	Chousuke	,(binding [+ *] (+ 1 2 3 4))
16:34	clojurebot	24
16:34	kefka	Ok.
16:34	Chousuke	+ gets inlined, so it fails :/
16:34	kefka	I see.
16:34	kefka	Is there anything you can bind to cancel out the inlines?
16:35	danlarkin	why do you want to rebind +? :)
16:35	Chousuke	no. but you can use #'+ instead of + to work around it.
16:35	kefka	,(binding [#'+ *] (+ 3 4))
16:35	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Cons cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol
16:35	Chousuke	no, I mean, in the actual expression :)
16:35	kefka	,(binding [+ *] (@#'+ 3 4))
16:35	clojurebot	12
16:36	Chousuke	the @ is redundant
16:36	kefka	Okay. That helps.
16:36	kefka	,(#'+ 3 4)
16:36	clojurebot	7
16:36	kefka	,((var +) 3 4)
16:36	clojurebot	7
16:36	kefka	Cool. So vars are applicative when functions.
16:36	Chousuke	vars redirect invocation to their values
16:36	kefka	Makes sense.
16:39	kefka	Chousuke: Thanks. I can now do what I'm looking to do, I think.
17:16	shmay	what exactly does 'sync' do? how is it different from dosync?
17:18	djork	,(doc sync)
17:18	clojurebot	"([flags-ignored-for-now & body]); transaction-flags => TBD, pass nil for now Runs the exprs (in an implicit do) in a transaction that encompasses exprs and any nested calls. Starts a transaction if none is already running on this thread. Any uncaught exception will abort the transaction and flow out of sync. The exprs may be run more than once, but any effects on Refs will be atomic."
17:18	shmay	thanks, but that was what was confusing
17:18	djork	right
17:18	djork	looks confusing to me :)
17:18	djork	,(doc dosync)
17:18	clojurebot	"([& exprs]); Runs the exprs (in an implicit do) in a transaction that encompasses exprs and any nested calls. Starts a transaction if none is already running on this thread. Any uncaught exception will abort the transaction and flow out of dosync. The exprs may be run more than once, but any effects on Refs will be atomic."
17:19	djork	sync is in-development, right
17:19	djork	?
17:20	djork	I have no idea, really
17:20	shmay	i was just looking at ants.clj, and rich used it, so i wanted to figure it out
17:20	djork	hmm
17:20	chouser	sync is older
17:21	chouser	it has an arg for "flags-ignored-for-now", which afaik still has no usable options.
17:21	shmay	so it's basically the same as dosync?
17:21	chouser	I think rhickey just didn't want to keep making people write (sync nil ...), so he provided (dosync ...)
17:21	chouser	,(macroexpand '(dosync a b c))
17:21	clojurebot	(. clojure.lang.LockingTransaction (clojure.core/runInTransaction (clojure.core/fn [] a b c)))
17:22	chouser	,(macroexpand-1 '(dosync a b c))
17:22	clojurebot	(clojure.core/sync nil a b c)
17:22	chouser	yes. the same. :-)
17:23	shmay	got it, thanks chouser and djork
17:23	hiredman	~def contains?
17:23	hiredman	pfft
17:23	hiredman	RT? cheater
17:23	chouser	heh
17:23	hiredman	~def c.l.RT
17:27	spuz	I'm reading Stuart Holloway's Programming Clojure and still trying to understand exactly when macros are useful. The book says that almost all macros fall into one of 6 categories, however as far as I can tell, the all fall into the last which is "Avoiding a lambda". Couldn't you implement most of Clojure's macros by passing in a lambda function as an argument rather than direct function calls?
17:27	spuz	For example to implement when as a function: (defn whenfn [predicate functiontoevaliftrue args] (if predicate (functiontoevaliftrue args) nil))
17:28	ordnungswidrig	hi
17:29	hiredman	my librarything says I am reading Programming Clojure, but is really in the middle of a stack of computer related books on one of my desks, so I cannot comment on what it says
17:30	spuz	hiredman: well basically it says the six occations when you might want to use a macro are "conditional evaluation, defining vars, java interop, postponing evaluation, wrapping evaluation or avoiding a lambda"
17:31	leafw	how to do (apply str (range 10)) but with #(str % \tab) ? For some reason, the latter as pred of apply fails
17:31	spuz	the when macro apparently falls into the "conditional evaluation" category
17:31	ordnungswidrig	Is there a short notation for a map get on a fixed key? Sth. like #(get % :a)
17:31	leafw	ie. how to print a list with elements separated with tabs?
17:31	ordnungswidrig	I'm doing a (-> map :key1 :key2 :key3) but key4 is not a symbol but a string
17:31	chouser	spuz: macros allow you to avoid all kinds of repetition, including the manual creation of lambdas
17:31	leafw	short of doseq etc with prn
17:32	hiredman	ordnungswidrig: use get
17:32	hiredman	(get "foo")
17:32	chouser	spuz: 'when' could be implemented using a lambda, as you say, but it isn't -- no new function is defined (at compile time) or instantiated.
17:32	hiredman	(-> foo (get "bar")) ~ (get foo "bar")
17:32	ordnungswidrig	hiredman: I cannot partial get because the map comes first in the argument list.
17:32	hiredman	you don't need to
17:33	ordnungswidrig	hiredman: magic
17:33	hiredman	,(-> {:a 1} (get :a))
17:33	clojurebot	1
17:33	hiredman	it's how -> works
17:33	spuz	chouser: thanks that pretty much answers my question
17:33	ordnungswidrig	hiredman: I see but I cannot believe :-) Does -> simply insert the first argument?
17:33	hiredman	yes
17:34	hiredman	->> inserts the last
17:34	ordnungswidrig	hmmm and -2> the second? ;-)
17:35	hiredman	the was a post recently on the group about generalizing the pattern by using substitution of a special symbol
17:36	ordnungswidrig	special symbol?
17:37	hiredman	(-> foo (get :$ :a) (map inc :$))
17:37	spuz	chouser: I guess I had the impression that macros were a bit more magical and mysterious but I see what they are good at is encapsulating the use of special forms
17:38	ordnungswidrig	hiredman: I see
17:38	hiredman	they are good for making things look like special forms
17:38	Chousuke	spuz: your function-when is not strictly correct as the args get evaluated in all cases.
17:38	ordnungswidrig	brb
17:38	hiredman	:$ is funny looking
17:38	Chousuke	I liked the let-> idea
17:39	Chousuke	(let-> [x init] (foo x) (bar x) ...)
17:39	hiredman	:\|
17:39	Chousuke	where x always gets rebound to the result of the previous expression, of course
17:40	hiredman	I see
17:41	_mst	would (let-> [x (println "foo")] (foo x) (bar x) ...) print twice? (not that I'm saying it's a good idea :P)
17:41	spuz	Chousuke: ah yes, in that case I guess you would need a lambda for every argument which would incredibly ugly
17:43	hiredman	spuz: actually I have a macro that cannot be replaced with a λ
17:44	hiredman	it loads a property file into a clojure map at macroexpand/compile time, so at runtime there is just a clojure map of properties
17:44	hiredman	and I don't have to ship the properties file
17:44	hiredman	well, deploy the properties file
17:44	spuz	hiredman: that's pretty neat :)
17:45	hiredman	god, who ships things these days besides microsoft?
17:45	hiredman	spuz: and it was so simple
17:45	spuz	great for compile time parameters, not so much for run time parameters I guess
17:45	hiredman	yeah
17:46	hiredman	http://gist.github.com/226651 <-- line 11
17:49	spuz	hiredman: nice
17:49	spuz	anyway enough clojuring, bed time :p
18:55	twbray	Just a hypothesis.... might it be the case that Java gc is single-threaded?
19:02	twbray	Hmm... maybe -XX:+UseParallelGC is my friend
19:23	hiredman	~google headius favorite jvm flags
19:23	clojurebot	First, out of 272 results is:
19:23	clojurebot	Headius: My Favorite Hotspot JVM Flags
19:23	clojurebot	http://blog.headius.com/2009/01/my-favorite-hotspot-jvm-flags.html
19:23	hiredman	:D
19:36	neilmock	,(doc use)
19:36	clojurebot	"([& args]); Like 'require, but also refers to each lib's namespace using clojure.core/refer. Use :use in the ns macro in preference to calling this directly. 'use accepts additional options in libspecs: :exclude, :only, :rename. The arguments and semantics for :exclude, :only, and :rename are the same as those documented for clojure.core/refer."
19:38	neilmock	this doesn't appear to have an effect on the current namespace
19:39	neilmock	sorry just trying to figure it out as a beginner, i know it works properly in the ns macro
20:02	tomoj	is it possible to build a hash inside syntax-quote?
20:02	sudoer	anyopen using vimclojure? I ahve installed it, but cant get any syntax highlighting to appear
20:03	tomoj	I've been trying stuff like `{~@(apply concat (for [i (range 10)] [i i]))} but getting ArrayIndexOutOfBounds exceptions
20:03	tomoj	I was able to make it work with `(into {} ....), but that seems silly
20:04	chouser	tomoj: you need an even number of forms inside the {} at read time
20:04	sudoer	how can I tell if vimclojure is running?
20:05	tomoj	chouser: I see.
20:05	tomoj	so no way to have a macro to expand into a literal hash?
20:05	tomoj	(no non-trivial way I mean.. `{3 3} works)
20:06	chouser	with forms inside `{} it's not really literal anyway
20:06	chouser	,'`{a b c d}
20:06	tomoj	but I mean, after the macro is expanded
20:06	clojurebot	(clojure.core/apply clojure.core/hash-map (clojure.core/seq (clojure.core/concat (clojure.core/list (quote sandbox/a)) (clojure.core/list (quote sandbox/b)) (clojure.core/list (quote sandbox/c)) (clojure.core/list (quote sandbox/d)))))
20:06	chouser	biab
20:06	tomoj	right now my macro expands to (into {} ...), where I would want it to expand to just {...}
20:07	tomoj	ooh
20:07	tomoj	I didn't know {} was weird like that
20:13	tomoj	well, if anyone feels like critiquing my macro chops: https://gist.github.com/4952f067ca8114e2e26b
20:18	chouser	actually it's ` that's weird like that.
20:18	chouser	,'`[a b]
20:18	clojurebot	(clojure.core/apply clojure.core/vector (clojure.core/seq (clojure.core/concat (clojure.core/list (quote sandbox/a)) (clojure.core/list (quote sandbox/b)))))
20:19	chouser	,'`(a b)
20:19	clojurebot	(clojure.core/seq (clojure.core/concat (clojure.core/list (quote sandbox/a)) (clojure.core/list (quote sandbox/b))))
20:19	tomoj	oh I think I understand
20:20	chouser	so you might was well just `(apply hash-map ~@(for ...))
20:20	tomoj	` transforms literals into code that builds the forms that would look like that
20:20	chouser	right
20:22	chouser	tomoj: if that works for you, you can leave it alone. But I would have tried to move pretty much the entire (fn ...) into a stand-alone function, and pass key-fn-map into it.
20:23	tomoj	yeah it would probably be more readable if broken up
20:23	chouser	I may be overlooking something that would make that undesirable, but in general it's good to have a macro do as little as possible itself, relying on helper functions.
20:24	chouser	right, more readable, easier to test and debug.
20:24	tomoj	yeah..
20:24	tomoj	slime-macroexpand-1 helps a lot, but small functions are still easier
20:24	chouser	also, sometimes people want to build on top of existing macro and having helper functions to call instead can ease that quite a bit.
20:24	chouser	anyway, if it works I don't know that I'd bother changing it around.
20:25	tomoj	nope.. it's purpose at this point has a very limited scope anyway
20:25	tomoj	I was mainly wondering if I was doing anything idiotic with syntax-quote and ~ etc
20:25	tomoj	since I built it by trial-and-error really :(
20:33	technomancy	what's the reasoning behind keywords not implementing IMeta?
20:38	danlarkin	technomancy: because there's only one copy for the whole vm
20:39	technomancy	,(identical? 'foo 'foo)
20:39	clojurebot	false
20:39	technomancy	,(identical? :foo :foo)
20:39	clojurebot	true
20:39	technomancy	I see
20:39	technomancy	thanks
20:44	vogon_poet	hi, i'm new here
20:44	vogon_poet	what is the etiquette?
20:44	chouser	vogon_poet: be friendly, ask your question, post your comment, don't paste more than a line or two at a time.
20:45	chouser	vogon_poet: welcome!
20:45	vogon_poet	thanks!
20:45	vogon_poet	is there anyone here familiar with Incanter?
20:45	technomancy	the only rule we have that you'll want to keep in mind is: no poetry bad enough to cause permanent mental scarring.
20:46	the-kenny	vogon_poet: Oh, and please don't read the poetry of your race to us :)
20:46	_ato	:) I was just typing the exact same thing
20:46	the-kenny	Oh, lol
20:47	replaca_	I think everyone has established their geek cred :-)
20:47	vogon_poet	yes
20:47	vogon_poet	(i can write some REALLY TERRIBLE poetry. but i won't subject you to it.)
20:48	_ato	wow, incanter looks nice (I hadn't heard of it)
20:49	vogon_poet	yeah, it is really nice as a replacement for R
20:49	vogon_poet	but my problem is i can't get it to work outside of the prepackaged REPL it comes with
20:49	JAS415	i just want to note that clojure + erlang = sweet (although kind of redundant)
20:49	vogon_poet	running inside of VimClojure, i get this error
20:50	vogon_poet	Clojure
20:50	vogon_poet	Clojure=> (use '(incanter core))
20:50	vogon_poet	#<CompilerException java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: cern/colt/matrix/tdouble/impl/DenseColDoubleMatrix2D (REPL:0)>
20:50	vogon_poet	Clojure=>
20:50	vogon_poet	some guy on the clojure google group had the same problem, but his solution was basically voodoo and didn't apply to me anyway
20:50	replaca_	vogon_poet: do you have the incanter library in your classpath. He preinstalls a lot of stuff
20:50	vogon_poet	as far as I can tell, yes
20:51	chouser	that's definitely a classpath-related error
20:51	vogon_poet	yeah
20:51	chouser	can you find DenseColDoubleMatrix2D.class in a jar or dir somewhere.
20:51	vogon_poet	one of the responses to the google group suggested that it's caused by the classpath of the jar files and my own classpath somehow colliding
20:52	chouser	how are you setting your classpath?
20:53	vogon_poet	everything i need for vimclojure, and as far as i know everything for incanter, is in an environment variable in my .bashrc
20:53	vogon_poet	and it's part of the command i've set up to start up the backend for vimclojure
20:53	vogon_poet	Mac OS X, btw
20:54	_ato	parallelcolt-0.7.2.jar
20:54	_ato	is the one that class is from
20:55	chouser	vogon_poet: try this at your repl: (System/getProperty "java.class.path")
20:56	vogon_poet	"/Users/mike/clojure/clojure/clojure.jar:/Users/mike/clojure/clojure-contrib/clojure-contrib.jar:/Users/mike/clojure/vimclojure-2.1.2/build/vimclojure.jar:/Users/mike/clojure/incanter/incanter.jar:/Users/mike/clojure/incanter/lib/:/Users/mike/clojure/incanter/lib/processing/"
20:56	_ato	note that if your vimclojure startup script does java -cp something it's gonna override the CLASSPATH environment variable
20:57	_ato	vogon_poet: are you using java 6? the wildcard classpath doesn't work in java 5
20:57	vogon_poet	nope, java 5
20:58	_ato	ah that'd be it
20:58	vogon_poet	i suppose this means i have to put all those jars into my classpath individually?
20:58	_ato	yeah
20:58	_ato	or do something like:
20:59	JAS415	sudo apt-get java 6 :-P
20:59	JAS415	or w/e
20:59	vogon_poet	i'm on a mac
20:59	vogon_poet	which i suspect has java 6 installed
20:59	_ato	CLASSPATH=$(echo lib/* processing/* \| sed 's/ /:/g')
20:59	vogon_poet	but i've already dealt with enough icky configuration tonight and i don't even want to think about that
21:00	vogon_poet	oh
21:00	vogon_poet	thank you!
21:00	the-kenny	vogon_poet: There should be an app called "Java Preferences" in /Application/Utilities or so. You can set the active java version there.
21:03	vogon_poet	PROBLEM SOLVED
21:03	vogon_poet	thank you so much
21:03	vogon_poet	i love all of you
21:04	hiredman	~love
21:04	clojurebot	I don't understand.
21:04	hiredman	:/
21:04	chouser	seems about right
21:05	chouser	<20 minutes from "new here" to "problem solved". way to go guys.
21:06	the-kenny	:)
22:13	hiredman	clojurebot: entertain me
22:13	clojurebot	Pardon?
22:27	_ato	nyaha! placeholder page up: http://clojars.org/
22:28	arbscht	I'm drawing the line at 'clojars'. any more puns on 'closure' will be duly ignored.
22:30	_ato	arbscht: clojurejars was just too long. :)
22:33	chouser	_ato: the ruby link at the bottom seems broken
22:34	_ato	yeah their site is currently down
22:34	chouser	oh
22:34	_ato	not a good thing to cop perhaps :p
22:34	chouser	:-)
22:35	_ato	they're in the process of taking over the rubygems.org domain, so it might be related to that
22:53	technoma`	_ato: are you sure you didn't mean to link to gemcutter.org?
22:54	_ato	ah
22:54	_ato	yeah you're right
22:54	_mst	I was wondering why I couldn't find rubycutter.org in google :)
22:54	_ato	ah
22:54	_ato	it's back up
22:54	_ato	it was down too
22:54	_ato	I swear! :)
23:00	technomancy	_ato: how do you plan on letting users manage uploads?
23:05	_ato	technomancy: I was planning on adding a "push" command to your tool actually! :-)
23:06	technomancy	_ato: awesome. so are you going to use scp, or a web service, or what?
23:06	technomancy	for the actual transport + auth?
23:07	_ato	hadn't thought that far ahead. I was going to look at what maven's deploy command supports so that maven users can push to it as well
23:07	_mst	github's "paste your public key" approach is quite nice. Easy to set up...
23:08	_ato	yeah
23:08	technomancy	it's certainly simpler than the sourceforge approach of giving every user an actual unix shell account.
23:08	_ato	problem is it's probably not so good for windows users
23:09	_ato	although there are pure java ssh libraries so maybe it's not so hard, just have the tool gen the key for them
23:10	_ato	I was also thinking a basic web form where you can just upload a jar in your browser and pick and choose dependencies for really simple projects, so you don't need to download/configure anything
23:13	technomancy	focus on one method first and get that rock solid; it's easy to get distracted in other things you think "might be useful"
23:13	_ato	yeah true.
23:14	technomancy	ivy and maven share the same repository format, working on adding capra support is probably a sidetrack of little value for now.
23:15	_ato	given that nothing uses capra yet, yes I agree. :)
23:15	qed	Could someone explain apply and reduce to me?
23:15	qed	They seem to work alike, but they seem different somehow
23:16	JAS415	much different
23:16	qed	their documentation for instance, apply f args* argseq
23:16	technomancy	anyway, I think this is important. people don't bother with dependency management because they get scared away by all the overhead and jargon of maven, but doing that stuff by hand is very tedious
23:16	chouser	qed: (apply foo a b c [d e f]) is the same as (foo a b c d e f)
23:16	chouser	qed: that is, foo is called once with all the args
23:17	technomancy	qed: reduce is for accumulating a single value by calling a function once for every element in a sequence.
23:17	chouser	qed: (reduce foo x [a b c]) is (foo (foo (foo x a) b) c)
23:17	qed	so what's the difference between (apply + [1 2 3])
23:17	qed	and (reduce + [1 2 3])
23:18	technomancy	qed: apply is a single function call
23:18	_ato	~def +
23:18	_mst	_ato: what's the use-case for the 'pull' side of it? Would it be a command to pull all required jars into a specified directory, or some sort of gems-like system-wide repository?
23:18	chouser	that is, foo is called repeatedly, once for each element of the seq, with two args: the previous result of foo and the elemnt itself.
23:18	_ato	+ with more than 2 arguments calls reduce
23:18	qed	so it's idiomatic?
23:18	_ato	yes, either is fine
23:19	_ato	apply + is probably slightly more common
23:19	qed	_ato: was that a yes, it is idiomatic?
23:20	_ato	qed: yes
23:20	qed	okay cool, thanks technomancy chouser _ato
23:21	chouser	rhickey has recommended 'reduce' in general, 'apply' for (apply str ...) in particular because it is more efficient.
23:22	_ato	_mst: I'm going to let technomancy figure that part out. But the idea is if you want to use Clojure with maven (which is a per-user local repository usually) you can just add clojars.org to your ~/.m2/settings.xml
23:22	technomancy	reduce is a personal favourite of mine
23:22	qed	i tend to use reduce
23:22	_mst	right, yep
23:22	qed	ive been hearing about clojure and grable?
23:22	qed	whats up with that?
23:24	technomancy	_ato: you'll let me figure out what?
23:25	_ato	technomancy: leiningen just uses maven's repository right?
23:25	_ato	I mean for storing downloaded stuff
23:25	_ato	and has a command to unpack into your project?
23:25	technomancy	it uses maven-ant-tasks to fetch dependencies from a maven repo, yeah.
23:26	_mst	"uberjar". nice :)
23:26	qed	whats that called?
23:26	qed	not grable is it?
23:26	JAS415	gradle?
23:26	qed	yes, thank you
23:27	qed	http://m.3wa.com/?p=350
23:27	qed	read that the other day FWIW...
23:27	JAS415	yeah, you can use clojure with pretty much any java library
23:27	qed	ive never learned maven, never learned java, went straight to the ruby stuff :\
23:28	qed	so maven looks extra scary to me
23:28	_ato	ah gradle uses Ivy, so it does maven repos as well
23:28	qed	wish i knew what the hell that meant :)
23:28	_ato	qed: it just means you can use the same packages with gradle as with maven or ivy or leiningen
23:29	qed	ah
23:29	chouser	I'm just biding my time until these smart and knowledgable folks get everything running smoothly.
23:29	chouser	Then I'll follow the tutorial.
23:29	qed	^
23:30	qed	what is the preferred setup for the clojure-ist?
23:30	qed	I've been using emacs and swank-clojure
23:30	JAS415	that's what i use
23:30	JAS415	slime is nice too
23:30	qed	yeah using that as well
23:30	JAS415	paredit mode?
23:31	qed	swank-clojure, clojure-mode, slime, paredit
23:31	JAS415	yup
23:31	qed	it's a sweet little setup
23:31	qed	it feels pretty good once you get into it
23:31	JAS415	yeah there's a bit of a learning curve, but once you get it it goes pretty well
23:32	qed	project euler really got me to buckle up and start learning clojure
23:32	qed	the code is small enough so you dont feel like the extra 10-15 minutes you spend navigating the editor is really that painful
23:32	qed	errr i should have said i learned emacs with clojure sort of concurrently
23:32	qed	pun intended
23:35	qed	when i map a function like (map #(fn %))
23:35	qed	Can i specify the input twice by using 2 %
23:35	qed	like (map #(+ % %))
23:36	qed	on some seq
23:36	JAS415	yes
23:36	wavis	,(apply #(+ %1 %2) (list 3 4))
23:36	clojurebot	7
23:38	JAS415	re project euler: project euler is fun, another good exercise is to write a small application thing
23:38	JAS415	i did a little twitter client myself
23:39	qed	wavis: thanks -- that's awesome
23:39	JAS415	although i guess you do end up seeing some of the ugly doing stuff like that
23:39	wavis	:) maybe not exactly what you asked for, but it's a "you can also..."
23:39	qed	user> (map #(Math/pow % %) [1 2 3])
23:39	qed	(1.0 4.0 27.0)
23:41	qed	except Math/pow wont go that high
23:43	JAS415	how high?
23:43	_ato	emit: there's a expt function in clojure.contrib.math which might work
23:43	_ato	qed: ^ (i meant)
23:43	hiredman	erm
23:43	qed	yeah im trying that now
23:44	hiredman	I seem to recall that contrib.math was just sort of a rough sketch
23:44	qed	how would you get the last ten integers in a bigint
23:44	qed	like take -10?
23:48	hiredman	bigint has a bit clear method
23:49	qed	how about the last 10 elements of a sequence?
23:49	somnium	,(take 3 (reverse [1 2 3 4 5 6]))
23:49	clojurebot	(6 5 4)
23:49	qed	oh man, duh
23:49	qed	thank you
23:50	somnium	less verbose than than (drop-while (- (count coll) n))
23:52	hiredman	,((comp first filter) (comp (partial = 10) count) (iterate rest (range 20)))
23:52	clojurebot	(10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19)
23:53	qed	(apply str (reverse (take 10 (reverse (seq (str (reduce + (map #(expt-int % %) (range 1 1001)))))))))
23:53	qed	is there any better way to do that?
23:54	qed	that finds the last 10 digits of 1^1 + 2^2 + 3^3 ... 1000^1000
23:54	hiredman	have you looked at http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/math/BigInteger.html
23:54	qed	i find myself using that whole str->seq->str thing a lot
23:54	hiredman	bigint has an xor method and a bitset method
23:54	qed	and it feels sort of wrong
23:55	qed	thanks hiredman ill check it out
23:57	_ato	:D
23:57	_ato	needs away to specify repositories, it can't find clojure.jar snapshot
23:58	sudoer	uh, what method should I use to split a string?
23:59	_ato	,(vec (.split "foo bar" " "))
23:59	clojurebot	["foo" "bar"]