#clojure – 2009-10-01

2009-10-01

00:14	kunley	hi
00:15	kunley	How to define a print-method for a java array of some java objects?
00:15	hiredman	easiest is to just call seq on it
00:16	hiredman	,(into-array ["foo"])
00:16	clojurebot	#<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@1a70476>
00:16	hiredman	,(seq (into-array ["foo"]))
00:16	clojurebot	("foo")
00:55	slyrus_	hrm... I see that I can use proxies to implement java interfaces, but can I subclass a java class?
01:46	slyrus_	hrm... ok, on to the next error... I'm occasionally seeing this error message: clojure.lang.PersistentStructMap cannot be cast to clojure.lang.PersistentStructMap$Def
01:46	slyrus_	any clues?
02:01	hoeck	slyrus_: that happens when you try to create a struct but supply a struct-map instead of a struct-map-definition
02:02	hoeck	like: (struct (struct (create-struct foo :a) 1) 1)
02:04	hoeck	slyrus_: maybe you have defined a struct-map with defstruct and later defined some Var with the same name, or in a let you define a local with the same name as the structmap and then try to create one
02:04	slyrus_	hoeck: yes, the second one. thanks!
02:04	slyrus_	that is to say it was a var with the same name that was mucking things up
02:06	hoeck	slyrus_: yeah, thats one of the drawbacks of a lisp-1
02:06	slyrus_	ah, right... clearly i'm used to a lisp-n...
03:28	AWizzArd	~ max people
03:28	clojurebot	max people is 178
03:33	Fossi	still ;)
03:36	AWizzArd	not bad for this time of the day
03:36	AWizzArd	geht doch
04:09	LauJensen	AWizzArd: You mean the 148 ?
04:16	G0SUB	I am planning to write a simple macro called (with-debug) which calls the body with debug bound to true. and the functions check debug and decide if they should enable debig or not.
04:16	G0SUB	is that a good approach?
04:27	LauJensen	G0SUB: Maybe - On a few projects I use a debug macro with I call similar to this (with-debug "Exchanging keys" (connect......)) and that will simply output <timestamp> Exchanging keys .. then do the work and output <timestamp> OK: Exchanging keys it everything goes well.
04:28	Chousuke	yeah. put the check for debug in the debug macros themselves. having (if debug ...) scattered around the actual program logic is icky :)
04:30	Chousuke	you could also simply have the debug be a global var and set it to true during development, and false afterwards. kind of like assert
04:30	G0SUB	Chousuke: actually I am dealing with some XML apis. I specifically want some low-level functions to spit out the XML depending on the value of debug
04:31	LauJensen	Oh, and while you're added, I recommended hooking into log4j from the get go, you can then later change output to whatever you like, text file, syslog, sql, you name it
04:31	G0SUB	LauJensen: good idea.
04:31	Chousuke	G0SUB: hm, then the name debug might not be so good.
04:31	Chousuke	verbose-xml or something? :/
04:31	G0SUB	Chousuke: yeah, that's fine too.
04:32	G0SUB	Chousuke: It was just thinking if putting (if verbose-xml ...) in the low-level functions is a good way or not.
04:33	Chousuke	well, you might be able to make it a bit nicer with a macro
04:33	G0SUB	Chousuke: would appreciate a small example.
04:34	Chousuke	well, I don't know the exact requirements so I'm not sure what you need.
04:34	Chousuke	but for example debug macros are usually done like (debug "whatever") and they expand to (if debug-enabled ...)
04:34	G0SUB	Chousuke: ah, got it now.
04:36	Chousuke	if you bind the value before compile-time it's even possible to have them check the value and expand to nothing if debugging is disabled. but I don't know if that's possible in your situation
05:13	G0SUB	OK. Are there any Clj wrappers over Log4J ?
05:13	AWizzArd	LauJensen: yes
05:14	LauJensen	G0SUB: As I recall it wasn't needed, so little interop
05:14	G0SUB	LauJensen: I am new to Log4J. how does one dynamically config it?
05:17	LauJensen	By modifying an xml file
05:25	sfuentes	anyone know if there is a function in clojure that retrives the current working directory?
05:27	jdz	sfuentes: that's a Java question.
05:33	jdz	,(.getCanonicalPath (new java.io.File "."))
05:33	clojurebot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.util.PropertyPermission user.dir read)
05:33	jdz	good bot, good
05:35	sfuentes	actually what i'm trying to do is open/read a file from a jar from which clojure is executed
05:35	sfuentes	from what i understand i should be using getResource
05:39	hoeck	sfuentes: or getResourceAsStream
05:39	sfuentes	great! thank you
05:58	sfuentes	is there not an easy way of converting this InputStream into a string in clojure? It looks pretty ugly on the Java side
06:10	G0SUB	LauJensen: Logger.getLogger() takes a class name. do I need to use gen-class for that?
06:13	LauJensen	(def logger (Logger/getRootLogger))
06:13	LauJensen	(defn log* ([priority action thunk] (.log logger priority action) (let [retr (thunk)] (.log logger Priority/DEBUG (str '< action '>)) retr)))
06:13	LauJensen	(defmacro log [priority action & body] `(log* ~priority ~action (fn [] ~@body)))
06:25	hoeck	sfuentes: (.readLine (reader (.getResourceAsStream clojure.lang.PersistentHashMap "PersistentHashMap.class")))
06:26	G0SUB	are there any breaking changes to 1.0 in the current master?
06:26	hoeck	sfuentes: 'reader' is from the clojure.contrib.duck-streams package
06:26	AWizzArd	Oh nice, nvidia anounced that their java api for cuda is in work.
06:27	sfuentes	hoeck: awesome! thanks again
06:28	sfuentes	that is soo much nicer than doing in it in java
06:28	hoeck	sfuentes: of course :)
06:35	cschreiner	...
06:49	G0SUB	has anyone used c.c.logging here?
06:50	G0SUB	how do I tell it to use a file for logging?
08:45	konr	has anyone already made a Clojure reference card?
08:45	chouser	I think I saw one
08:47	chouser	konr: http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/clojure-cheat-sheet.zip
08:48	konr	haha thanks! You saved me an afternoon :)
08:48	chouser	you're welcome
08:56	ambient	pretty cool cheatsheet :)
08:57	serp	awesome sheet!
08:57	ambient	that could be linked in the clojure main page so more people knew about it
08:58	rhickey	(just kidding :)
08:58	rhickey	nice sheet though!
08:58	chouser	I'm glad that since there are people who like it, that there are others who were willing to make it.
08:59	rhickey	could someone with some CSS mojo produce an HTML version? It would be nice on the site
09:12	hamza	hey guys, i have a graphics object defined as [#^Graphics (:graphics surface)] but i still get (.setColor graphics) can't be resolved?
09:14	hoeck	hamza: and you supply a java.awt.Color object to .setcolor?
09:15	raek	rhickey: working on it now
09:15	hamza	hoeck: yes, same error for drawLine also (.drawLine graphics x y x y ) to paint a dot.
09:18	hoeck	hamza: and (type graphics) evaluates to Graphics or some descendant of the Graphics class?
09:19	hamza	evaluates to Graphics
09:22	hoeck	hamza: can you paste your code to lisppaste?
09:23	hamza	sure
09:24	snowwhite	I am using Emacs-starter-kit. To start the lisp process i do clojure-project but i figure out what exactly it does under the cover?
09:24	Chousuke	you can take a look at it. :)
09:24	snowwhite	I am using Emacs-starter-kit. To start the lisp process i do clojure-project but i am not able to figure out what exactly it does under the cover?
09:25	spuz	this is another really stupid question but, does clojure have 'else-if'?
09:25	Chousuke	spuz: cond
09:25	snowwhite	spuz, use cond
09:26	spuz	Chousuke: ah thanks
09:27	lisppaste8	hamza pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88004
09:28	hamza	i think my type hint is wrong because now it does not work, http://paste.lisp.org/display/88004
09:28	hamza	it thinks graphics is a persistant vector
09:31	liwp	hamza:
09:31	liwp	whoops...
09:31	liwp	hamza: yeah, the type hinting is broken
09:32	liwp	hamza: try this: (.drawLine #^Graphics graphics x y x y) and take the hint and the [] out from the let
09:33	liwp	if you do want to keep the hint in the let binding it should be something like this: (let [#^Graphics graphics (:graphics surface)] ...)
09:33	hamza	kk now it works. thx, i was following the example on clojure.org they are def'ed as (defn len2 [#^String x]... so thats why i typed my like that
09:33	liwp	at the moment you're binding a vector that to graphics
09:34	hoeck	hamza, liwp: yes, it is the vector around [#^Graphics (:graphics surface)]
09:34	liwp	yeah, that example is about a fun def so the args are in a vector
09:34	hamza	ahh damm it didn't notice that :P
09:34	liwp	but AFAIK even this won't work: (let [graphics #^Graphics (:graphics surface)] ..,)
09:35	liwp	i.e. the hint is in the wrong part of the binding
09:40	spuz	if I have a predicate function, how do I create an infinite lazy sequence of numbers for which the function is true?
09:41	spuz	I could use range + filter but this will create a sequence that terminates
09:43	mccraig	,(take 5 (iterate inc 0))
09:43	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4)
09:43	mccraig	spuz: iterate and inc will give u an infinite seq of integers, see above
09:50	somnium	how to get to a nested enum from clojure? according to api it should be com.foo.bar.Klass.VerboseEnum(.VerboseEnumFirst...), but class not found, and repl-utils show doesn't indicate that VerboseEnum exists in Klass
09:52	cgrand	somnium: $ instead of . when nested
09:53	somnium	thanks!
10:44	Fossi	eh
10:44	Fossi	the conversation that you just had turned up in a google search for clojure enum i just made ;D
10:45	hamza	hehe google is fast but i hate it when i search for something and stumble on my question and no answer..
10:46	Fossi	pretty amazing actually
10:47	hamza	btw, does take evalutes the items in the lazy sequence?
10:47	clojurebot	lazy is hard
10:47	arohner	In this post, where does the function self-eval? come from? http://clj-me.blogspot.com/2009/05/need-for-more-lack-of-understanding.html
10:48	liwp	hamza: take is lazy as well
10:50	raek	is "#^data form" always equivalent to (with-meta form data) ?
10:50	liwp	raek: nope. #^foo is a type hint which I believe is mapped to :tag in the meta map
10:51	raek	,(meta #^{:a 1} 2)
10:51	clojurebot	Metadata can only be applied to IMetas
10:51	liwp	so #^data form becomes somethng like (with-meta form {:tag data})
10:51	arohner	raek: you can see what it does by doing (meta #^data form)
10:52	zemariamm	hello guys
10:52	raek	,(meta #^{:a 1} (list 1 2 3))
10:52	clojurebot	nil
10:53	raek	shouldn't that return {:a 1} ?
10:53	zemariamm	when I have a bug in my code, and it blows up why do I get an error meesage with (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0) instead of the filename and line number ?
10:57	Chousuke	raek: no, #^{} is read-time
10:58	Chousuke	raek: you're actually adding metadata to the list '(list 1 2 3)
10:58	Chousuke	not to '(1 2 3)
10:58	raek	ah
11:00	liwp	,(meta #^{:a 1} [1 2 3])
11:00	clojurebot	{:a 1}
11:00	liwp	,(meta #^{:a 1} '(1 2 3))
11:00	clojurebot	nil
11:00	Chousuke	liwp: that happens because [1 2 3] evaluates to itself :)
11:01	raek	anyway, I've been converting the cheat sheet to html
11:01	liwp	so is there any way to associate meta data to lists?
11:01	raek	http://raek.se/clojure-cheat-sheet.html
11:01	Chousuke	,(meta '#^{:a 1} (a 1 b))
11:01	clojurebot	{:a 1}
11:01	raek	I've done page 1 so far
11:01	Chousuke	note the position of the quote
11:01	liwp	ahh, the quote's before the meta data. clever
11:01	raek	I was thinking about expanding a little on the #^ reader macro
11:01	zemariamm	guys, when I have a bug in my code, and it blows up why do I get an error meesage with (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0) instead of the filename and line number ? it there any way of having a stack trace ? that would very helpful
11:01	zemariamm	?
11:02	Chousuke	you can also use with-meta of course
11:03	liwp	so how does #^{:a 1} relate to type hints?
11:03	raek	#^{:tag ClassName} form
11:03	raek	#^ClassName form
11:04	raek	the compiler treats :tag metadata as a type hint
11:04	liwp	so #^Foo gets turned into #^{:tag Foo} by the #^ reader macro?
11:05	liwp	or probably more specifically it gets turned into (with-meta ... {:tag Foo})
11:05	raek	yes, passing a symbol instead of a map is a shorthand of a map with the :tag mapping set to the symbol
11:06	liwp	ok, thanks
11:07	liwp	,^'#^{:a 1} (1 2 3)
11:07	clojurebot	{:a 1}
11:07	liwp	yay
11:09	Fossi	,^'#^
11:09	clojurebot	EOF while reading
11:09	Fossi	,^#^'
11:09	clojurebot	EOF while reading
11:09	Fossi	:(
11:09	chouser	the #^ reader macro does not expand to (with-meta ...)
11:10	chouser	both attach metadata, but they do so at different times.
11:10	liwp	chouser: I thought that might be the case... what does it expand to?
11:10	opqdonut	it associates metadata directly with the next object to be read
11:10	opqdonut	right?
11:10	chouser	#^ doesn't expand to anything. It attaches the given metadata directly to the next form read, at read time.
11:11	chouser	if the next form is a literal, then at runtime that literal will still have its metadata
11:11	chouser	,(meta #^java.util.Map {})
11:11	clojurebot	{:tag java.util.Map}
11:12	liwp	with-meta calls withMeta on the IObj. Is that what the reader does as well?
11:12	chouser	if the next form is not a literal, but is instead an expression, a special form (like quote), etc. then by runtime it's likely that the object returned at runtime is a different one and therefore has no metadata on it.
11:13	liwp	ok
11:13	chouser	,(meta #^java.util.Map '{})
11:13	clojurebot	nil
11:14	chouser	,(meta #^{:my :meta} (if true {:val true} {:val false}))
11:14	clojurebot	nil
11:14	liwp	so the metadata is attached to the expression before it's evaluated?
11:14	chouser	liwp: exactly
11:14	chouser	,(meta (with-meta (if true {:val true} {:val false}) {:my :meta}))
11:14	clojurebot	{:my :meta}
11:15	liwp	why isn't the metadata attached to the value of the expressions instead?
11:15	liwp	I'm sure there's some reason for it...
11:15	chouser	liwp: because #^ is used to communicate to the compiler, before anything has been evaluated
11:16	jeremy___	this is probably a simple question, but I have a function with two arguments (f [x y]) is there an easy way I can reverse the parameters so that I can create a partial fixing the second argument?
11:16	rhickey	the #^ metadata is a read time thing and thus has to end up on the read-time data
11:16	rhickey	from there, the compiler may interpret it as part of evaluation, e.g. treating :tag metadata on symbols and lists as type hints
11:16	liwp	so if #^ would expand to e.g. with-meta we wouldn't be able to use it for type hinting etc.?
11:17	Chousuke	correct.
11:17	stuartsierra	jeremy___: #(f %2 %1)
11:17	rhickey	some metadata is evaluated as flow-through when the expression is itself a data literal, e.g. vectors and maps. But lists aren't data literals
11:17	jeremy___	stuartsierra: ah thanks! I thought it was something simple
11:17	liwp	ok, cool
11:18	chouser	part of why the difference between #^ and with-meta isn't obvious is that at lots of points metadata is copied from the compile-time thing to the runtime thing, like (def #^{:my :meta} foo) getting copied to the Var
11:22	zemariamm	guys, how can i configure clojure to give me the stack trace (or at least tell me the file and the line number) of the program when a bug occurs ?
11:22	chouser	zemariamm: plain terminal repl, emacs slime/swank, or something else?
11:23	zemariamm	chouser: emacs slime/swank
11:23	liwp	if I add meta data to a var, e.g. (def #^{:a 1} foo 1), I can't see it with (meta foo) only with (meta #'user/foo)
11:24	chouser	liwp: right. that def added metadata (at read time) to the symbol foo.
11:24	liwp	and (meta foo) is looking at the meta data attached to the value rather than the var?
11:24	Chousuke	yes
11:24	liwp	ok
11:24	Chousuke	it's a bit confusing I guess :D
11:24	chouser	def, at runtime, copied that metadata from the symbol to the Var (not the value)
11:25	rhickey	(anything foo) is being passed the value of the var foo, and not the var itself
11:25	chouser	The value is an Integer which doesn't even support metadata.
11:25	rhickey	that includes meta
11:25	Chousuke	firstly, the symbols can have metadata, then, vars can have metadata, and even values can have metadata :P
11:25	chouser	except when anything == var :-)
11:26	Chousuke	and in some cases the values can be vars or symbols, further confusing the poor programmers.
11:26	rhickey	Chouser: no
11:26	Fossi	so, again, how do i get at the values of an enum? (.FIELD EnumClass)?
11:26	rhickey	same evaluation for vars in head
11:26	Chousuke	Fossi: EnumClass/FIELD?
11:27	chouser	rhickey: 'var' is not passed the value of the var foo, but because it's a special form it just gets the symbol foo, right?
11:27	Fossi	thanks
11:27	rhickey	using the-name-of-a-var designates it's value unless it is a special form like var
11:27	rhickey	its
11:28	rhickey	Chouser: oh, now I see, yes
11:28	rhickey	I thought you meanty when anything is a var, you mean when anything is var
11:28	zemariamm	chouser: any hints ?
11:28	chouser	rhickey: ah! heh. yes.
11:29	chouser	zemariamm: nope, sorry -- maybe somebody here who uses slime can help
11:29	zemariamm	chouser: tks anyway :)
11:30	liwp	zemariamm: I don't usually see filename/line number in traces in slime
11:30	liwp	zemariamm: sometimes you can look at the cause of the trace and that'll give you more information
11:30	zemariamm	liwp: how do you find the bugs then ?
11:30	zemariamm	liwp: humm is this case it was dawn hard, let me give you an example
11:32	zemariamm	liwp: i was executing clojure.set/select, think it would return a list instead of a set
11:32	liwp	zemariamm: let me rephrase that: I don't see source files / line numbers in the exception message, but I do see them in the actual backtrace
11:32	zemariamm	liwp: no backtrace
11:32	liwp	zemariamm: so I look for files in the trace that are part of my project
11:33	zemariamm	liwp: If i have this: (nth (clojure.set/select #(= (mod % 2)) #{1 2 5 10}) 0)
11:33	liwp	zemariamm: and looking at the cause ('Throw cause of this exception' in slime) can then sometimes show more information
11:33	zemariamm	liwp: somewhere in a file
11:34	zemariamm	liwp: i get this message java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.LazySeq (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
11:34	zemariamm	liwp: slime doesn't give me for info than this I think
11:35	liwp	zemariamm: you don't see a stack trace?
11:35	zemariamm	liwp: exactly
11:35	liwp	I get an UnsupportedOperationException
11:35	zemariamm	(but i think I used to see it)
11:35	zemariamm	liwp: me too, If i run the line directly in the Repl
11:36	liwp	it should opens a new emacs window, are you running e.g. AquaMacs which does weird things to windows?
11:36	liwp	zemariamm: are you sure that line is the issue then?
11:36	liwp	and if you run that line in the repl do you see a stack trace?
11:36	zemariamm	liwp: AquaMacs actually, with (tool-bar-mode -1)
11:37	zemariamm	liwp: and (scroll-bar-mode nil)
11:37	zemariamm	liwp: actually in the code the seq is a lazy one
11:37	liwp	to be honest though, I tend to run everything from the repl, i.e. I load a file of code which defs a bunch of stuff and then I call it from the repl
11:38	zemariamm	yeah me too
11:38	zemariamm	liwp: yeah me too
11:38	zemariamm	liwp: I have a much of kb macros to load my code and then just call the defn directly, but i get a NOSOURCE_FILE msg
11:39	liwp	and no trace...
11:40	zemariamm	liwp: and added an expression to my code (/ 10 0) in a file, loaded the file (with use :reload-all namespace)
11:40	zemariamm	liwp: and the error mensage i got was java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ArithmeticException: Divide by zero (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
11:40	zemariamm	liwp: without knowing the line number it could be hell to find it
11:41	zemariamm	liwp: in our installation you get the file and line number right ?
11:41	zemariamm	liwp: may I ask you which version of clojure and java are you using ?
11:41	zemariamm	liwp: maybe it's the params I use to load the JVM ?
11:41	liwp	zemariamm: clojure from github and java 1.6.something
11:41	liwp	I think it's a swank-clojure issue
11:42	liwp	i.e. swank-clojure does not pass in the file name and line numbers when the source is injected
11:42	zemariamm	let me try to run it by the terminal ( I think I tried that already but)
11:42	zemariamm	liwp: that makes sense
11:42	liwp	on the terminal you should see the line numbers and the file name
11:42	zemariamm	liwp: but I could sear it worked before
11:43	chouser	in a terminal, no stack trace is printed by default, just the exception.
11:43	chouser	To see the whole trace, use (.printStackTrace *e)
11:44	zemariamm	liwp: nope, in the terminal same result
11:44	zemariamm	liwp: Listening for transport dt_socket at address: 8888
11:44	zemariamm	Clojure 1.0.1-alpha-SNAPSHOT
11:44	zemariamm	user=> (use 'c3po.state.database)
11:44	zemariamm	nil
11:44	zemariamm	user=> (run-offline "5ahfrah0l500glaht500l0rad0r00kl05" "wlhh0r")
11:44	zemariamm	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ArithmeticException: Divide by zero (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
11:44	zemariamm	user=>
11:44	zemariamm	ops sorry guys
11:45	chouser	zemariamm: To see the whole trace, use (.printStackTrace *e)
11:45	somnium	zemariamm: trace macros in contrib are also helpful
11:45	chouser	rhickey: are you writing js code??
11:46	zemariamm	chouser: it actually shows the stack trace using that expression but it still says NO_SOURCE_file
11:46	rhickey	Chouser: trying to avoid it :)
11:46	chouser	zemariamm: you should see file names and line numbers in the stack trace itself
11:46	rhickey	I want Clojure-like syntax (and macros) with js semantics
11:46	somnium	I have half a library with a couple control structures and mostly jquery wrappers...
11:46	chouser	rhickey: oh, I see. you want ... yeah.
11:46	chouser	rhickey: which isn't even ClojureScript.
11:47	zemariamm	chouser: YES, actually in the end of the stack trace it is showing
11:47	rhickey	not the same as ClojureScript, more like parenscript
11:47	zemariamm	chouser: is it possible to make the printing of the stack tarce default ?
11:47	somnium	I saw something about adding a heredoc reader macro in a mailing list from last year, is that still a possibility?
11:48	rhickey	but the fun of it would be that it could be a start for cinc in that it would be all-clojure analysis, of whatever primitives are supported
11:48	rhickey	a lot like the very very early Clojure where I was considering targeting JS, given Rhino and MS JScript compilation
11:49	chouser	zemariamm: look at clojure.main/repl-caught
11:50	chouser	zemariamm: you may be able to use 'binding' or something to handle repl exceptions yourself.
11:50	rhickey	this is what I do when I want to avoid the tedious and painful reality of bridge method generation in reify...
11:50	chouser	rhickey: ha!
11:51	zemariamm	chouser: great idea!! I ll try it right away :) thanks :)
11:52	chouser	rhickey: I mentioned the idea of writing something to convert Compiler's current java-object tree into a clojure collections tree as a step toward cinc
11:53	chouser	rhickey: I was wondering if you care to share any thoughts about when cinc's ast would look like. no metadata at all? metadata for almost everything what was in the original reader output?
11:53	chouser	s/when/what/
11:53	rhickey	Chouser: that's an idea, I think the problem is you won't get a cinc very different from the current Java compiler
11:54	chouser	you're expecting the ast to be very different?
11:54	rhickey	Chouser: I think it may all be actual data, not metadata
11:55	rhickey	Chouser: well, I want it to be more functional, that may only be in the mechanics of analyze and not the AST
11:56	chouser	no metadata makes sense -- filenames, line numbers, etc. all there right next to type hints, special-form names, etc.
11:56	rhickey	but the environments disappear, and that isn't helpful for tools, since they just need to reconstruct them
11:56	rhickey	so I'd like to do better there
11:56	chouser	right, I was thinking it would actually be easier to write a functional compiler if there were an example of the immutable output to look at and aim for.
11:57	rhickey	Chouser: definitely
11:57	chouser	what do you mean by environments
11:57	chouser	?
11:57	rhickey	Chouser: what the names signify at any point
11:58	rhickey	LOCAL_ENV
11:58	chouser	a name's namespace or the fact that its a local, for example?
11:58	chouser	oh
11:58	rhickey	that flows through the process then vanishes
11:59	stuartsierra	rhickey: What are the barriers to a 1.1 release right now?
12:00	chouser	stuartsierra: just as soon as cinc is done ...
12:00	chouser	:-)
12:00	stuartsierra	Seriously, I don't want to wait for cinc.
12:00	chouser	I'm kidding.
12:00	stuartsierra	I know. :)
12:00	rhickey	stuartsierra: need to make some decisions as to what's in or not, for instance there is new work sitting around in par and new branches
12:00	rhickey	cinc is not 1.1
12:00	rhickey	par could wait
12:01	stuartsierra	So could newnew/reify, I think.
12:01	rhickey	newnew/reify would be really nice, but come with a bunch of new code that I imagine few have tried
12:02	chouser	transients and chunks are perhaps big enough for 1.1?
12:02	stuartsierra	You've still got transients, chunks, several new namespaces from testing, and various small improvements...
12:03	stuartsierra	I have an ulterior motive: I'm trying to get swank-clojure and an updated clojure-maven-plugin released on Maven central.
12:03	rhickey	yes, it's not a bad spot, but transients and chunks still aren't shaken out. Maybe that's just a matter of calling it RC1 and getting more usage
12:04	stuartsierra	I'd go for that.
12:04	rhickey	there are still a bunch of things marked for next release with no patches, and some patches not applied
12:04	chouser	additions to LOCAL_ENV would be explicit at each level of the ast, so recreating would be just a merge of those on the way down the tree
12:05	stuartsierra	rhickey: ok, anything I can help with? (I have some clojure.test patches)
12:05	rhickey	Chouser: right, but we could just leave in the AST
12:06	chouser	rhickey: at every node or just 'fn' nodes?
12:07	rhickey	Chouser: maybe every node that might bind, like lets as well
12:08	chouser	ok
12:08	technomancy	stuartsierra: how's pom-ifying swank-clojure going?
12:08	technomancy	is it ready to merge back upstream?
12:08	slyrus_	if I have a list of things that I want to turn into array-maps, is there a more idiomatic way than: (map #(apply array-map %) ...)
12:09	stuartsierra	technomancy: Jeffrey Chu is willing, doesn't know Maven. I've re-forked, making a clean POM without dependencies on any of my stuff.
12:09	somnium	layman question about initializing state <- is there a practical difference between putting an atom in a map and swapping it with function calls, or using macros that def functions in a namespace? - like while loading modules before starting a server
12:09	rhickey	stuartsierra: you have patches not yet submitted?
12:09	technomancy	stuartsierra: cool. Jeffrey and myself are both maintainers, so I can help too if you need anything.
12:09	stuartsierra	rhickey: no, I think they're all in there
12:09	somnium	and is there a preferred approach?
12:10	stuartsierra	rhickey: need to fix one bug related to TAP, haven't written patch yet
12:10	stuartsierra	technomancy: cool, didn't know you were officially maintaining, will send POM to you as soon as it's finished.
12:11	rhickey	stuartsierra: are they marked as "test"? otherwise I don't know there's a patch to look at
12:11	stuartsierra	rhickey: ok, will check
12:11	technomancy	stuartsierra: I don't think jochu does much clojure these days
12:11	chouser	there are 2 approved tickets with no patches, 5 with unapplied patches, and 27 fixed
12:11	stuartsierra	technomancy: ok, good to know
12:13	rhickey	Chouser: approved with no patches?
12:16	chouser	I should say 2 approved but "new". One has bad patches for an ant guru to fix.
12:16	chouser	The other is left "as new for any bugfixes"
12:17	rhickey	ok, I see
12:18	chouser	I would need to think about agent errors queues more before doing anything there.
12:24	stuartsierra	technomancy: my swank-clojure fork, with POM: http://github.com/stuartsierra/swank-clojure
12:30	technomancy	stuartsierra: is it ready for a merge then?
12:30	technomancy	and your changes are all pom-related?
12:30	stuartsierra	technomancy: should be; give it a try. I only added the pom.xml, but I rearranged all the source directories to make Maven happy.
12:32	technomancy	stuartsierra: OK, I'll see if I can take a look at that later today
12:32	technomancy	thanks
12:32	stuartsierra	no problem
12:35	hamza	guys, when is clojure.lang.MultiFn.invoke is invoked? i have a function that does complex number crunching and from profiler all time is spend 70% on this call?
12:37	rhickey	hamza: whenever a multimethod is called
12:41	hamza	i am assuming its the + * from the complex library, is it possible to call them directly and not through multi function? they are called 200xbillion times it may help..
12:46	johnmn31	what is cinc?
12:47	stuartsierra	clojure-in-clojure, the plan to reimplement most of Clojure in Clojure itself
12:47	johnmn31	ah, ok
12:51	stuartsierra	If your language isn't self-hosting then language geeks will make fun of you. ;)
12:51	ambient	heh, that sounds like a really severe problem
12:52	hiredman	plus, if clojure is cinc, and you write in clojure, you are in cinc
12:54	stuartsierra	ouch
12:54	hiredman	~laugh
12:54	clojurebot	ha ha
12:55	hiredman	~laugh is also <repl>#who, find another sycophant
12:55	clojurebot	Ok.
13:38	wooby	hi, i'm working on a small program to save occurrences of words in a hash map
13:38	wooby	i'm able to build my map with no problems, but i'd like to display the words in order of number of occurrences... and not sure how to go about it
13:39	wooby	i think i'm not able to sort a hash map by values, is this correct? should i convert it to some sortable data structure?
13:39	wooby	code: http://gist.github.com/199121
13:41	wooby	thanks in advance for tips
13:41	LauJensen	Can I give some kind of Thread priority to a future ?
13:42	LauJensen	wooby: http://clj-me.cgrand.net/2009/05/04/counting-without-numbers/
13:43	chouser	,(sort-by second {"this" 2 "pants" 1})
13:43	clojurebot	(["pants" 1] ["this" 2])
13:44	cgrand	LauJensen: you mean http://clj-me.cgrand.net/2009/04/27/counting-occurences/
13:44	LauJensen	cgrandI just picked one, they all seem to work generically
13:45	wooby	LauJensen: awesome, thank you
13:45	tomoj	,(sort-by val {"this" 2 "pants" 1})
13:45	clojurebot	(["pants" 1] ["this" 2])
13:46	chouser	tomoj: even better
13:46	LauJensen	Can I give some kind of Thread priority to a future ?
13:47	tomoj	oh, he left
13:48	chouser	LauJensen: don't think so
13:50	chouser	LauJensen: I don't even see a way for Executors to manage priority, let alone as abstracted by agent or future
13:50	LauJensen	Ok, my best bet is to hog the main thread then ?
13:51	chouser	I wouldn't assume the "main" thread will get any higher priority than the others.
13:51	LauJensen	It doesn't, I can see that now
13:53	cgrand	chouser: you can pass a ThreadFactory when creating an executor, the factory can set the priority
13:53	chouser	cgrand: ah, thanks.
13:56	chouser	maybe you could call setPriority on yourself in the future closure?
13:56	hoeck1	LauJensen: you could patch clojure.lang.Agent to submit your future to a lower/higher priority ExecutorService
13:57	LauJensen	Ok thanks
13:57	hoeck1	LauJensen: but the book says: "avoid the temptation to use thread priorities..." :)
13:57	LauJensen	But I need more juice! :)
13:57	chouser	hoeck1: which book?
13:58	hoeck1	chouser: JCIP
13:58	chouser	ah
13:58	LauJensen	Anybody have a quick guide on how to attach a profiler - As I recall JSwat connects very easily once you start the JVM with a param ?
13:59	chouser	LauJensen: I've been using jvisualvm, which comes with sun's jdk I think.
13:59	hoeck1	chouser: and setting the thread priority in the future is a bad idea, since its thread will be reused (likely)
13:59	chouser	hoeck1: exactly.
13:59	hoeck1	+1 for jvisualvm
13:59	LauJensen	k
13:59	chouser	LauJensen: I run jvisualvm and it lists all the running clojure repls. I just pick one and 2 clicks later it's profiling.
14:00	LauJensen	Wow - That a little easier than JSWat even
14:00	LauJensen	I have JDK6 here, but no jvisualvm
14:01	chouser	LauJensen: here on ubuntu it's /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-sun/bin/jvisualvm
14:02	chouser	not in the PATH for some reason.
14:02	LauJensen	ah, thanks - Didn't think to check locate
14:04	LauJensen	I'm already profiling, fantastic
14:09	LauJensen	Seems like 'future' and 'deref' are hogging 40% of the cpu-time :P
14:09	wooby	in that count-occurrences blog post's use of 'reduce,' it looks like in that form reduce behaves like foldl... is that correct?
14:11	chouser	I think so
14:11	wooby	awesome
14:12	wooby	thanks again for the link, i'm out for now
14:12	wooby	boiling 30 lines down to 1 rules
14:15	LauJensen	yea, like fixing 1500 bugs with 1 line of shell-script "rm *.php" :)
14:23	rhickey	where does maven want source code? (dir structure)
14:23	clojurebot	source is http://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot/tree/master
14:24	chouser	rhickey: src/main/clojure/my/great/library.clj
14:24	rhickey	thanks
14:24	chouser	if you have a Clojure namespace called my.great.library
14:25	chouser	http://stuartsierra.com/2009/09/03/mavens-not-so-bad
14:26	sproingie	funny thing how close "pom.xml" looks to "porn.xml" in some fonts
14:27	stuartsierra	POMs probably qualify as XML-porn.
14:27	sproingie	more like xml snuff
14:28	sproingie	maven doesn't even use a real xml parser. can't validate, because tag content is pretty much arbitrary
14:29	stuartsierra	It does its own validation to some extent, because it throws exceptions if you put tags in the wrong places. But there's no schema.
14:29	LauJensen	rhickey: I'm guessing you would know. I've just done a purely functional implementation of a cellular automata, it updates every cell at a speed of 0,032msecs, doing an iteration on a 80x80 board in 200 msecs. That's incredibly slow compared to imperative implementations, is that to be expected from functional code, or should I work on optimizing? (not that I can think of more to do)
14:29	sproingie	yeah the validation is ad-hoc
14:30	sproingie	LauJensen: is it short enough to pastebin?
14:31	LauJensen	sproingie: Yea, but it's more of a general question, the code is (I think) fully optimized
14:34	cgrand	LauJensen: it churns too much memory. Transients may help but not with this implementation.
14:34	chouser	LauJensen: one benefit of higher-level languages in general and functional ones in particular is that more complex algorithms may be easier to implement
14:35	LauJensen	Yes there's no doubt about that - But the performance is still surprisingly bad
14:35	chouser	I'd recommend pursuing algorithmic improvements before getting down to optimizing a particular approach.
14:38	rhickey	cgrand: what's the implementation?
14:42	LauJensen	rhickey: If you're asking about my memory eating code, its this http://gist.github.com/198457
14:42	LauJensen	lines 28 -> 54 are the interesting ones
14:42	hiredman	is this life?
14:43	LauJensen	Brians brain
14:44	hiredman	I see
14:47	rhickey	LauJensen: you won't come close to an imperative version like that, but you could do much better with vector for board
14:47	danny	hey i need help real quick, is there a way to have the if statement do more than one thing if statement is true?
14:47	raek	rhickey: the cheat sheet in html: http://raek.se/clojure-cheat-sheet.html
14:48	rhickey	raek: awesome! ok if I put on the site?
14:48	raek	danny: "do" and "when" might be what you are looking for
14:48	chouser	danny: (if true-thing (do step1 step2 step3)) ... or just use 'when'
14:48	raek	rhickey: of course! go ahead...
14:49	raek	(when true-thing step1 step2 step3)
14:49	raek	when does not have a false-branch, though
14:51	Chousuke	that cheatsheet has lazy-cons :P
14:53	chouser	that's what comes of cheating
14:55	raek	rhickey: also, I think that the original pdf version should be linked to
14:55	LauJensen	alright, thanks rhickey
14:55	raek	the layouting in html is, well, unpredictable at some times
14:56	raek	so, if anyone wants to print it, they should be able to find the good version
14:56	danny	k thanks a lot probably should read documentation more lol
16:23	rhickey	http://clojure.org/cheatsheet - thanks to Steve/Rasmus/Tom!
16:26	thickey	rhickey: np
16:27	arbscht	nice!
16:29	rys	An, that's brilliant
16:30	dnolen	(= 'cheatsheet 'awesome) -> true
16:33	rys	In fact, that's bloody brilliant. I think I'll tear down my notes from the corkboard behind my monitor and just print that out
16:41	stuartsierra	great
17:11	raek	thickey: may I suggest something?
17:11	raek	a direct link to the PDF (and maybe the gray-scale version too), called something like "printable version" would be really be useful
17:11	raek	because, if people's gonna print the cheat sheet, they should really print the PDF
17:31	thickey	raek: i agree that a direct link would be good. though google groups file links are always indirect.
17:32	thickey	rhickey: would you be fine with me putting the pdfs in the file section of the wiki?
17:33	arbscht	thickey: isn't there a copy on github?
17:33	arbscht	http://cloud.github.com/downloads/richhickey/clojure/clojure-cheat-sheet-a4-grey.pdf
17:34	thickey	arbscht: evidently ;)
17:58	thickey	raek: added the link to pdf on github in addition to original source zip (thanks for heads-up arbscht)
18:00	spuz	thickey, are you aware of the problem with the search on clojure.org?
18:01	spuz	it took me a while before I noticed all the results at the bottom of the page :p
18:02	raek	thickey: nice!
18:02	raek	but now I realized that I forgot to tell you that I imagined the link to be at the top of the page
18:02	raek	the cheet sheet is rather long, so people might miss the link if it's at the bottom
18:02	raek	this was my thought
18:02	raek	sorry for nagging... :)
18:02	raek	you have done a great job with the website
18:02	raek	now I will be quiet.
18:03	thickey	spuz: i was not... that's pretty bad! thanks for letting me know
18:03	thickey	raek: my first instinct was to put it up top, but rhickey had it down below (wasn't sure if there was a reason for that)
18:03	spuz	heh, glad to help :)
18:04	thickey	raek: no need to be quiet, feedback is always welcome
18:04	raek	ok, great!
18:11	LauJensen	A post about cellular automata, specifically Brians brain, http://www.dzone.com/links/brians_functional_brain_in_clojure.html for those who are interested :)
18:15	spuz	LauJensen: Looks interesting as always, lau. I'm going to work through that tomorrow and see what I can learn. Looking forward to see how you handle the parallelism and seeing how it performs on my quad core cpu :p
18:16	LauJensen	Yea that'll be interesting to see
18:17	spuz	I only have my laptop with me at the moment so that will have to wait, the difference in performance should be quite noticable I imagine tho :)
18:18	LauJensen	I would think so, about 40%. It hogs both my cores pretty effeciently
18:20	spuz	You said earlier to rich that you'd pretty much optimised the code as much as you could, is that the code you show in your blog post, or are you showing us the more idiomatic version?
18:21	LauJensen	This is the optimized idiomatic version :) There are 2 more things to do, 1) The board should be 1 vector, 2) Abstract some imperative code or similar - which I probably won't bother to do
18:22	spuz	ok
18:22	LauJensen	But last time I put code up, I got 3 revisions within the following 36 hours - so who knows what will happen :)
18:22	spuz	hehe :)
18:22	spuz	well till tomorrow
18:23	LauJensen	Ta ta :)
18:23	mccraig	what is the idiomatic way of concatenating two vectors into a vector ? i can think of (apply conj a b) or (into [] (concat a b)) ...
18:23	hiredman	mccraig: into works on non-empty things
18:24	hiredman	(into [1 2 3] [4 5 6])
18:24	hiredman	,(into [1 2 3] [4 5 6])
18:24	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4 5 6]
18:24	mccraig	aha!
18:29	lisppaste8	miltonsilva pasted "euler 1" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88046
18:29	miltonsilva	hi
18:30	hiredman	for
18:30	Chousuke	miltonsilva: hi
18:30	miltonsilva	that is one solution to the euler problem. but I would like to pass a list of divisors
18:30	miltonsilva	euler problem 1
18:30	Chousuke	miltonsilva: 1) there's a "range" function for making a range, 2) the vector is not needed :)
18:31	miltonsilva	oh.. didn't noticed that
18:33	Chousuke	or hm, never mind 2). it's not a vector. you calling it vec just confused me :P
18:34	Chousuke	which probably means it's time for me to sleep! Good night.
18:39	ari__	help a newbie out. I have a def that calls clojure.xml/parse. If I want to search for specific elements, is zip the only way to do it? ideally i'd like a variable that contains the element that I have in mind
18:39	ari__	i've googled for hours looking for a decent example that's well-commented enough to work from
18:42	arbscht	ari__: is zip insufficient? there's also clojure.contrib.zip-filter
18:42	hiredman	you can just use filter and map
18:43	hiredman	http://gist.github.com/184831
18:43	hiredman	the output of zip-soup is clojure.xml/parse output
18:47	ari__	neither are insufficient exactly, I guess I was just confused; I figured that since there were accessors attached I could do something like (:blah get-tree) (get-tree is the name of my function)
18:47	hiredman	eh?
18:47	ari__	where :blah is the name of an element, like :currentTime
18:47	ari__	but I guess I was wrong
18:47	ari__	i'm fairly new to lisp altogether and programming, so
18:47	ari__	not really clued
18:48	hiredman	(:blah get-tree) would work if get-tree is a Map
18:48	hiredman	that is what keywords used as functions do, they look themselves up in a map
18:49	ari__	but clojure.xml/parse doesn't output as a map, right?
18:49	hiredman	it does
18:50	dthomas	But the keys are not elements, IIRC.
18:50	ari__	yeah, I mean that doesn't throw an error or anything, but the output is blank. e.g. (str (:currentTime get-tree))
18:52	arbscht	you aren't calling get-tree there
18:53	hiredman	and the output of parse is not going to have a key :currentTime
18:53	hiredman	,(-> "<?xml version="1.0"?>
18:53	clojurebot	EOF while reading string
18:53	hiredman	er
18:53	ari__	let me rephrase my question: how do I get to the content of the element when it looks like http://gist.github.com/199303
18:56	hiredman	,(-> "<?xml version=\"1.0\"?> <foo/>" .getBytes java.io.ByteArrayInputStream. clojure.xml/parse)
18:56	clojurebot	{:tag :foo, :attrs nil, :content nil}
18:57	hiredman	well, you have a map there
18:57	hiredman	with the keys ::tag :attrs and :content
18:58	hiredman	er, :tag
18:58	hiredman	and thats not the whole datastructure
18:58	ari__	no
18:58	ari__	it's just a part of it
18:58	ari__	i'm just wondering, can I get to currenttime's content easily
18:58	ari__	without using zip
18:58	hiredman	sure
18:59	hiredman	you take the :content of blah, search for :currentTime and take it's :content
19:00	hiredman	,(-> "<?xml version=\"1.0\"?> <foo><bar/> <baz>some content</baz></foo>" .getBytes java.io.ByteArrayInputStream. clojure.xml/parse)
19:00	clojurebot	{:tag :foo, :attrs nil, :content [{:tag :bar, :attrs nil, :content nil} {:tag :baz, :attrs nil, :content ["some content"]}]}
19:01	hiredman	,(-> "<?xml version=\"1.0\"?> <foo><bar/> <baz>some content</baz></foo>" .getBytes java.io.ByteArrayInputStream. clojure.xml/parse :content ((partial filter #(= :baz (:tag %)))))
19:01	clojurebot	({:tag :baz, :attrs nil, :content ["some content"]})
19:01	hiredman	,(-> "<?xml version=\"1.0\"?> <foo><bar/> <baz>some content</baz></foo>" .getBytes java.io.ByteArrayInputStream. clojure.xml/parse :content ((partial filter #(= :baz (:tag %)))) :content ((partial apply str)))
19:01	clojurebot	""
19:01	hiredman	bah
19:01	hiredman	,(-> "<?xml version=\"1.0\"?> <foo><bar/> <baz>some content</baz></foo>" .getBytes java.io.ByteArrayInputStream. clojure.xml/parse :content ((partial filter #(= :baz (:tag %)))) :content)
19:01	clojurebot	nil
19:01	hiredman	,(-> "<?xml version=\"1.0\"?> <foo><bar/> <baz>some content</baz></foo>" .getBytes java.io.ByteArrayInputStream. clojure.xml/parse :content ((partial filter #(= :baz (:tag %)))) first :content ((partial apply str)))
19:02	clojurebot	"some content"
19:03	hiredman	you have a nested structure of maps and vectors that you need to traverse
19:06	ari__	is most of how to do that covered in programming clojure?
19:06	hiredman	ari__: uh, it's pretty simple
19:07	dthomas	ari__: If you ever want to use zippers on your XML, I learned them recently and found them to be just what I needed. I made a quick example at http://gist.github.com/199309 .
19:08	ari__	dthomas, that example is pretty helpful
19:08	ari__	thanks
19:09	ari__	it's not that I didn't want to use zippers, but I got the idea they were for modifying trees as opposed to just reading them
19:09	tomoj	also lets you query them easily :)
19:12	ari__	I guess I probably need to go sit down with SICP, and then programming clojure
19:12	ari__	it's my first language, probably not the best choice, but it's what I want to use :)
19:13	ambient	first language ever? if i'd be in the similar position i'd perhaps start with scheme and sicp
19:13	LauJensen	ambient: are you nuts?
19:13	ambient	how so?
19:13	LauJensen	You're telling a guy who wants to pick up Clojure to go hang with the Flintstones?
19:14	ambient	clojure introduces a lote more new concepts than scheme does. it may be easier to grok the functional programming style with scheme when there are no additional obstacles
19:14	ari__	isn't SICP a good mechanism to learn functional programming & programming in general?
19:14	ari__	that's what I understood
19:14	LauJensen	ari__: It sure is
19:15	ari__	well, last I checked, there was no current entrance into programming from clojure
19:15	ari__	in book form
19:15	LauJensen	ambient: Ok - I get where you're coming from... still a little nuts, good night guys :)
19:15	ari__	I thought programming clojure was a little more advanced and required you to have some java knowledge
19:15	ambient	LauJensen btw nice article, hope you continue writing :)
19:15	LauJensen	Thanks ambient :)
19:16	hiredman	http://sicpinclojure.com/
19:17	ambient	"you should not be here yet." heh
19:17	hiredman	yeah
19:17	hiredman	anyway, that is just one of a few efforts
19:18	ambient	that might be an interesting read, just to see how much the absence of tail call optimization hurts clojure if any
19:18	ari__	Wow!
19:19	ari__	That's awesome hiredman. Thanks!
19:20	hiredman	I dunno that he has actually gotten that far
19:21	ari__	he hasn't
19:21	ari__	but it's good to know there's an effort
19:49	ari__	http://lolwat.net/?w=534f0698de5b616377460b8b93dcbec3
20:44	kevin__	hey all, anyone using the quasiquote form mentioned in this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/6d0c5f7e37909055/3a8fa4e4d680a38a?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=quasiquote+clojure#3a8fa4e4d680a38a
20:54	quidnunc	Is there a function that will return a function that applies its argument (a function) N times?
20:55	hiredman	#(dotimes [i n] (f))
20:56	quidnunc	thanks
20:56	hiredman	dunno why you'd apply a function more than once, because the answer would always be the same
20:56	quidnunc	the function takes args
20:57	hiredman	so?
20:57	hiredman	a function on the same set of args always has the some output
20:57	quidnunc	Er, I guess your solution doesn't work
20:57	quidnunc	for what I want to do. (f (f x))
20:57	hiredman	,(doc iterate)
20:57	clojurebot	"([f x]); Returns a lazy sequence of x, (f x), (f (f x)) etc. f must be free of side-effects"
20:57	kevin__	you mean if n is 3 (f (f (f x)))
20:58	quidnunc	iterate is what I want, thanks.
21:50	quidnunc	Is there a way to use -> with anonymous functions?
21:53	arbscht	,(-> 5 (#(* % %)))
21:53	clojurebot	25
21:53	arbscht	ugly :)
21:54	quidnunc	Okay, thanks.
21:58	tomoj	is ~'foo the proper way to get unhygienic variables in a macro?
22:04	chouser	yes
22:05	chouser	to the extent that unhygienic variables can be proper, anyway.
22:05	tomoj	hmm.. how does this look? http://gist.github.com/b99ca5c6e87318540cf5
22:05	tomoj	I felt like I needed them for defn and let
22:06	arbscht	why not gensym?
22:06	tomoj	ah, yeah, forgot about that
22:07	chouser	yeah, use n# instead of ~'n
22:08	tomoj	that makes it look much better, thanks
22:11	tomoj	hmm, that doesn't seem to work, though
22:12	tomoj	because I've got multiple levels of quoting-unquoting
22:12	tomoj	so n# in the nested ` gets a different gensym than n# in the toplevel ` :(
22:13	arbscht	,(doc gensym)
22:13	clojurebot	"([] [prefix-string]); Returns a new symbol with a unique name. If a prefix string is supplied, the name is prefix# where # is some unique number. If prefix is not supplied, the prefix is 'G__'."
22:16	kevin__	how does this work as compared to CL? cause the generated symbol could match something someone constructed later, in CL this is not possible right?
22:17	kevin__	,(gensym)
22:17	clojurebot	G__5134
22:17	tomoj	,'G__5134
22:17	clojurebot	G__5134
22:17	tomoj	why wouldn't the same be possible in CL?
22:17	kevin__	those would be = right?
22:17	kevin__	cause the second one would not be the same as the first in CL, not = right?
22:18	kevin__	in CL gensyms are unreadable
22:18	tomoj	and it's impossible to construct them?
22:19	tomoj	arbscht: thanks, using gensym manually worked
22:19	kevin__	it's impossible to get one through the reader that matches the gynsym'ed one i think, if that makes since, i think i need to provide an example, ...
22:20	tomoj	(deffizzer fizzbuzzbazz {3 "Fizz" 5 "Buzz" 7 "Bazz"}), (fizzbuzzbazz 105) -> "FizzBuzzBazz") :D
22:39	icey	are many people using an editor without slime? i've been wrestling with weird classpath issues for days and wondering if it's worth all the hassle
22:39	icey	i mean... without it, it's just like programming in any other language that doesn't have a REPL, right?
22:40	ztellman	icey: what sort of problems are you having?
22:41	ztellman	I just have slime invoke a script that has an exhaustive list of all the classpath stuff I want
22:41	icey	it can't seem to find swank.clj when i fire slime up
22:41	ztellman	oh, well that's a little different
22:41	ztellman	I dunno about that one
22:42	icey	yeah; like i said, it's a weird thing; all my paths check out and everything, but I figure if it's not a big deal to use vim or textmate or something without a repl, maybe i'd just do that for awhile and go back to the problem later
22:46	tomoj	I'm using zip-filter.xml, but it seems difficult to reuse parts of filter chains
22:47	tomoj	e.g. say you've got (xml-> doc :foo (attr= :bar "baz") :bing) which returns a bunch of elements, but then you'd like to do further filtering on these in different ways
22:47	tomoj	it sucs to have to put the ":foo (attr= :bar "baz") :bing" where you want to do that
22:47	tomoj	any ideas?
23:28	ztellman	if a java function takes a variable number of arguments, do I need to pass those arguments in as an array?
23:28	ztellman	tha
23:28	ztellman	that seems to be what's implied by the error I'm getting
23:33	JAS415	you shouldn't have to
23:33	JAS415	what is the error
23:34	ztellman	com.nativelibs4java.opencl.CLDevice cannot be cast to [Lcom.nativelibs4java.opencl.CLDevice
23:35	ztellman	per the javadoc, the signature is createContext(CLDevice... devices)
23:35	JAS415	hmm
23:35	JAS415	you could try using make array or to array
23:36	ztellman	to-array doesn't work, because it's an array of objects
23:36	ztellman	make-array will work, but is annoying
23:36	JAS415	ooh
23:36	JAS415	yeah that is annoying
23:36	ztellman	because I have to first make the array, and then fill it in
23:36	JAS415	yup
23:36	JAS415	could write a helper fn that does that i guess
23:36	ztellman	oh well, if that's what's required
23:36	ztellman	yeah, I was just hoping I wouldn't have to
23:37	JAS415	yeah is kind of annoying to not have plain 'old java array syntax
23:37	JAS415	for certain things
23:38	ztellman	I dunno, I have to assume that there could be an auto-translation for this particular situation
23:38	ztellman	and I don't really care about arrays in other situations
23:39	JAS415	i was expecting to-array would do it, but if it returns array of objects that is annoying
23:39	mikem	,(doc rfirst)
23:39	clojurebot	No entiendo
23:39	JAS415	into-array
23:39	JAS415	try that one
23:39	JAS415	,(doc into-array)
23:39	clojurebot	"([aseq] [type aseq]); Returns an array with components set to the values in aseq. The array's component type is type if provided, or the type of the first value in aseq if present, or Object. All values in aseq must be compatible with the component type. Class objects for the primitive types can be obtained using, e.g., Integer/TYPE."
23:39	mikem	hm, rfirst is in the cheatsheet in the section "Using a seq": http://clojure.org/cheatsheet
23:40	JAS415	user=> (to-array ["fred" "ethel"]) [Ljava.lang.Object;@3f472b
23:40	JAS415	user=> (into-array ["fred" "ethel"]) [Ljava.lang.String;@74e78a
23:49	arbscht	mikem: is it in clojure 1.0? I seem to recall it existing in old versions
23:49	mikem	arbscht: hm, perhaps. I'm running a git version, about a month old
23:50	mikem	and apparently so is clojurebot
23:51	mikem	another question: under "Reader Macros" is the entry: "#' \| Var quote: @'x -> (var x)"
23:51	mikem	so is it #' or @'?
23:52	mikem	looks like it's #', and there's a typo in the example
23:53	arbscht	right