#clojure – 2009-09-01

2009-09-01

03:22	mikem`	i'm getting a java.io.IOException: Stream closed trying to read from a file. How can I know exactly which code threw this exception? how to continue debugging?
03:27	crc_	could be a lazyness issue? reading past with-open scope?
03:27	crc_	(just shooting in the dark :)
03:28	mikem`	crc_: probably :) I have (with-open [rdr (reader filename)] (line-seq rdr))), which I then use in further processing.
03:28	crc_	ah! most probably thats it!
03:29	mikem`	so the line-seq is only "valid" within the with-open scope.
03:29	crc_	since it returns a lazy seq. The reader behind the seq is only valid within that scope.
03:29	crc_	may do a doall?
03:31	mikem`	where would the doall go? around (with-open) or (line-seq)?
03:33	crc_	around line-seq. Anything outside of with-open is out of scope. If the file is big, you could also do a doseq within the scope and processing before it ends.
03:33	crc_	If i remember right, c.contrib.duck-streams has a function that returns a sequence which closes the reader after it is consumed fully.
03:34	crc_	that might be more appropriate?
03:34	mikem`	crc_: gott it, it works :)
03:34	crc_	cool!
03:35	mikem`	hm, that would be useful (the stream that's closed when the sequence is consumed). i'll look into that
04:20	AWizzArd	How can I see which Clojure functions produced an error when an Exception was thrown? In the stack trace I only see evals and invokes and some applys and runs here and there.
04:51	mikem`	crc_: i guess the reader that closes the stream after the sequence is consumed is (read-lines): http://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib/blob/39618b6d881fb0c3b52de4929aa34134bb32ffdb/src/clojure/contrib/duck_streams.clj#L228
04:52	crc_	Yes. I think thats the one.
04:56	mikem`	yep, it works great. thanks for the pointer :)
04:59	crc_	sure
07:35	AWizzArd	~seen stuartsierra
07:35	clojurebot	stuartsierra was last seen parting #clojure, 817 minutes ago
08:00	adityo	how will i add type hints to a let binding?
08:02	adityo	for eg. (let [keyval] (.split foo-string "="))
08:02	liwp	(let [var #^hint val] ...)
08:02	adityo	on compilation i get a warning 'call to split can't be resolved'
08:03	liwp	String.split returns a String array, right? I can't remember the syntax for a string array type hint...
08:03	adityo	liwp: thanks
08:03	liwp	ahh
08:03	liwp	you want to hint the .split call
08:03	adityo	liwp: yeah
08:03	liwp	,(.split #^String "foo=bar" "=")
08:03	clojurebot	Metadata can only be applied to IMetas
08:04	liwp	blah
08:04	liwp	anyhow, that's how it should work
08:04	liwp	might be that you have to hint both args
08:09	liwp	so this work:
08:09	liwp	,(let [#^String str "foo=bar"] (.split str "="))
08:09	clojurebot	#<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@678646>
08:10	liwp	i.e. the hint is before the var in the let binding
08:12	adityo	liwp: thanks i shall try it out :)
08:19	cschreiner	swank does not accept unicode, how can I fix this?
08:20	jdz	cschreiner: works like charm with utf-8 for me...
08:20	cschreiner	ok, so how do I set utf-8?
08:21	cschreiner	Coding system iso-latin-1-unix not suitable for "00004c(:emacs-rex (swank:....
08:21	jdz	(slime-connect "127.0.0.1" 4005 'utf-8-unix)
08:21	cschreiner	ah
08:21	jdz	oh, sorry
08:21	jdz	(slime 'clojure 'utf-8-unix)
08:22	tashafa	,(keys (apply hash-map [ a 5 b (inc a) c [a b] d {:foo c :bar (* a b)}]))
08:22	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: a in this context
08:23	tashafa	,(keys (apply hash-map (list a 5 b (inc a) c [a b] d {:foo c :bar (* a b)})))
08:23	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: a in this context
08:23	cschreiner	jdz: thanks
08:30	Chouser	This is cool abuse of the GPU: http://ideolalia.com/performance-in-clojure-and-factor
08:30	tashafa	,(keys (apply hash-map '(a 2 b 7)))
08:30	clojurebot	(a b)
08:31	tashafa	,(keys (apply hash-map [a 2 b 7]))
08:31	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: a in this context
08:31	liwp	you need to quote a and b in the vector
08:31	jdz	tashafa: don't you have your own repl?
08:31	tashafa	i dont have one right now
08:31	tashafa	sorry
08:31	Chouser	tashafa: you can PM clojurebot too
08:32	tashafa	oh thanks
08:32	liwp	Chouser: yeah, the penumbra GPU stuff was really nice
08:32	ambient	i'm looking at penumbra too, really cool how it does both opengl and shaders with s-expressions
08:33	ambient	even if opencl is done 100% on the cpu it might be faster than the java libs depending on how it's implemented, afaict
08:48	Fossi	is there a way to compare two maps "lazily", as in, at least all given elements of map 1 are in map 2 as well
08:48	Fossi	some kind of deep contains?
08:53	Chouser	,(every? {:a 1, :b 2, :extra 3} (keys {:a 1, :b 4}))
08:53	clojurebot	true
08:56	Chousuke	Chouser: clever.
08:57	Chousuke	though that'll only test for keys I guess.
09:01	Chouser	,(let [m1 {:a 1, :b 4}, m2 {:a 1, :b 2, :extra 3}] (= m1 (select-keys m2 (keys m1))))
09:01	clojurebot	false
09:33	icylisper	http://paste.lisp.org/display/86361 ; how do I call a method on an instance; for example in the paste how do i call the method createChannel(). In java it would be conn.createChannel()
09:33	icylisper	(doto conn (.createChannel)) does not work
09:34	icylisper	any ideas ?
09:35	Chouser	I would guess newConnection is a static method of ConnectionFactory
09:35	icylisper	Chouser: yes
09:35	icylisper	ref: http://www.rabbitmq.com/api-guide.html
09:35	Chouser	then you want (ConnectionFactory/newConnection ...) instead.
09:35	icylisper	ah interesting.
09:35	Chouser	(.foo bar) is to call instance method foo on the the instance bar
09:37	Chouser	icylisper: if you really want to ignore that distinction, you can still use the plain . operator for either case: (. thing1 thing2) ...but that's generally considered unattractive these days.
09:38	icylisper	Chouser: makes sense :)
09:39	icylisper	Chouser: (def conn (ConnectionFactory/newConnection "localhost" 5672)) doesnt work. Could you correct me there ?
09:40	Chouser	icylisper: what sort of error do you get?
09:40	icylisper	Chouser: No Matching Method: newConnection
09:41	Chouser	icylisper: hm. This is a shot in the dark, but maybe try (ConnectionFactory/newConnection "localhost" (int 5672))
09:42	Chouser	the 'int' shouldn't be required, but it's the last thing I can think of before digging in deeper. :-/
09:42	mikem`	I think you need to call newConnection on a ConnectionFactory instance
09:42	Chouser	mikem`: you're right.
09:42	Chouser	bad assumption on my part back a ways.
09:43	Chouser	it's not a statis method at all.
09:43	rhickey	http://best-practice-software-engineering.blogspot.com/2009/09/clojure-clojure-book-review.html asks: "Is it really worth investing half a year in a hot language like Clojure to be able to produce code that is 3 times more accurate imperative Code?"
09:43	Chouser	icylisper: so -- what error were you getting with your original doto expression?
09:44	icylisper	Chouser: http://paste.lisp.org/display/86361 the doto works. However, doing (.createChannel conn) fails.
09:45	Chouser	icylisper: with what error?
09:46	icylisper	Chouser: No matching field found: createChannel for class com.rabbitmq.client.ConnectionFactory
09:46	icylisper	Chouser: wierd in java the method works on the conn instance
09:46	Chouser	ah! sheesh. ok, I see the problem.
09:46	icylisper	Chouser: :)
09:46	Chouser	doto returns the result of its first expression
09:47	Chouser	so conn is the Factory
09:47	icylisper	Chouser: ah brilliant. yeah.
09:47	rhickey	Chouser: in looking at the MIDI thing the other day, I found that the inheritance graph was quite screwy. An abstract superclass defined the method the op was trying to call, but only the most derived class derived from the interface the method was supposed to be a member of, so looking up from the implementing class didn't find the interface
09:48	Chouser	icylisper: the clue is in that error message, that it's trying to call createChannel on ConnectionFactory
09:48	rhickey	this one seems simpler :)
09:48	Fossi	rhickey: i don't get it. did he really mean "3 tumes more accurate imperative" or "than imperative"?
09:48	icylisper	Chouser: kewl. but how do i get the last expression using doto ?
09:48	rhickey	Fossi: I presume "than"
09:49	Chouser	icylisper: just don't use doto.
09:49	Chouser	icylisper: (def conn (.newConnection (new ConnectionFactory) "localhost" 5672))
09:49	icylisper	Chouser: ook :) thanks a lot!
09:49	Chouser	or use -> or .. if you prefer to keep the same word order as doto
09:50	icylisper	Chouser: nice.
09:51	icylisper	Chouser: there works beautifully. Clojure rocks!
09:51	eevar2	that blog post wasn't entirely coherent? i'm not sure what he's trying to say with his first point
09:54	LauJensen	,(meta (cons (with-meta [1 2 3] {:vec true}) [4 5 6]))
09:54	clojurebot	nil
09:54	LauJensen	why ?
09:54	Chouser	,(cons (with-meta [1 2 3] {:vec true}) [4 5 6])
09:54	clojurebot	([1 2 3] 4 5 6)
09:54	LauJensen	nvm, I got it
09:59	Chouser	using swig to get access to C++ objects from Clojure is pretty heady stuff. So much "just works" it makes me a bit dizzy.
10:05	Chouser	re: that blog article; it's interesting to me to consider what people seem to think the "lifespan" of Clojure will be.
10:07	Chouser	I suppose perl has been pretty well "dead" to me for a while, though I once loved it so dearly.
10:08	Chouser	wait, is this a public forum?
10:08	rhickey	I wondered if a) people think it takes 6 months, and b) is it worth it
10:12	rys	Perl isn't dead. It's just sat there quiet in the corner glueing everything else together ;)
10:13	cemerick	does that blog have any sway at all, anywhere? I'm bad at gauging the cred of random blogs that I'm not familiar with.
10:13	cemerick	spelling it "BLOG" is funny, though.
10:13	rhickey	I just thought it was an interesting question, not necessarily an important blog
10:14	cemerick	oh, OK
10:14	rhickey	i.e. how long did it take you to grok Clojure and was it worth it?
10:14	rhickey	and also, how steep is the learning curve?
10:14	cemerick	The basics took 2 weeks. I think becoming proficient (FWIW, in my case) took a solid 3-4 months. I actually only think I'm hitting my stride now.
10:15	cemerick	worth it? I'm here :-)
10:15	ambient	most problems learning clojure for me is definitely the functional approach and immutability
10:15	cemerick	Seriously though, of course it's worth it, at least if you're working away from the fleshy middle of the "I.T. Industry"
10:16	iBong	as a java -> ruby programmer (who absolutely has not grokked clojure) my brain continues to experience stiff resistance to everything but list comprehensions and multimethods, and yes I think it will be worth it
10:16	rhickey	Certainly most of the early adopters were willing to deal with sexprs. I think the next wave has a lot more people stuck at "not intuitive/easy to read", all flavors of "unfamiliar"
10:16	ambient	i think reading through SICP and doing stuff in it with Scheme definitely helped
10:17	ambient	in scheme one can use mutability way freer though, so it's not that big a step
10:17	ambient	afaict
10:17	jdz	except that mutation is introduced well good into half of the book (SICP)
10:18	rsynnott_	I think it's very easy to pick up for someone who has programmed in common lisp
10:18	cemerick	I think the #1 issue as more people come in will be tools. I know the 133t hackers (;-)) love emacs, but 90% of programmers simply won't bother if that's the recommended path.
10:18	rsynnott_	rhickey: maybe you should do a Dylan on it :)
10:18	rhickey	Dylan had its shot
10:18	ambient	yes, emacs+lisp at the same time is... heavy
10:19	rsynnott_	(Dylan started off with s-exps but switched to a ruby-looking syntax)
10:19	ambient	a simple drscheme style IDE would be golden
10:19	ambient	although i dont know if I can call that simple
10:19	raphinou_	rhickey: I wondered what your opinion is about the closure conversion feature of Jruby and if it's interesting for Clojure ( http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/fa13ce48fe01893e )
10:20	cemerick	ambient: no, it must be eclipse/netbeans/intellij/visual studio based. There's zero tolerance for one-off environments outside of enthusiasts.
10:20	iBong	I think the sexps shouldnt be much of a problem for most people coming from ruby, although some people are really into their tidy-looking dsls
10:20	rhickey	raphinou_: I think it is a gimmick of limited utility that muddies the language semantics
10:21	raphinou_	ok rhickey, that's clear :-) thx
10:21	Chouser	I actually learned lazy seqs, immutable locals, and immutable collections on Scala first, so then switching to Clojure wasn't very hard at all.
10:21	cemerick	rhickey: hrm, do you do much swing?
10:22	cemerick	Chouser: yeah, I came the same way
10:22	Chousuke	I think you could get pretty close to that gimmick with a macro
10:22	cemerick	yeah, it doesn't need to be bolted into the language at all.
10:23	rhickey	cemerick: no, Chousuke: yes
10:23	Chouser	I would have rather learned the functional/immutable stuff here. #scala was a bit harsh a bit too often.
10:24	AWizzArd	Hi stuartsierra. I discovered a problem in append-spit.
10:24	raphinou_	Chousuke: if you're talking about the listener gimmick, I'm interested in advice. I currently have a macro here: http://www.nsa.be/index.php/eng/Blog/Using-Jwt-yes-it-s-a-J-with-Clojure
10:25	stuartsierra	AWizzArd: what's the problem
10:25	AWizzArd	stuartsierra: when I do (binding [default-encoding "UTF-16"] (append-spit "/foo.txt" "x\n")) a few times in the repl, it will then write the utf-16 marker into each row. Loading this file will show in emacs new lines (not the first one) with a space in front.
10:26	AWizzArd	append-spit should not write the encoding marker if the file already exists
10:26	stuartsierra	Hmm, ok, I'll have to think about how to fix that.
10:26	stuartsierra	Can you file a ticket for it?
10:26	AWizzArd	just eval this form that I just posted 3x in your repl and then slurp the file and do a (map int (slurp "/foo.txt" "UTF-16"))
10:27	AWizzArd	stuartsierra: k
10:27	Chousuke	raphinou_: well, the simplest way of course is to write separate macros for each interface. but I think it would be possible to generate code that uses reflection at runtime to figure out which interface to implement.
10:30	raphinou_	ok
10:30	Chousuke	raphinou_: for your code, you could have a (signal-listener [evt parameters] ...) that figures out which proxy to generate based on the number of elements in the parameter vector, for example.
10:30	raphinou_	Chousuke: yes, that's what I do actually
10:31	raphinou_	it implements Signal, Signal1, Signal2 etc for 0, 1 , 2 etc arguments
10:31	Chousuke	oh, heh, I didn't read that far yet. :P
10:31	raphinou_	ok :)
10:33	Chousuke	did you work around the clojure bug in the macro yet though?
10:34	Chousuke	And I see you do (let [argsnum# ...] ...) there. that's not necessary. autogensyms only matter inside syntax-quote.
10:34	raphinou_	well, cgrand attached a patch to http://www.assembla.com/spaces/clojure/tickets/181
10:34	raphinou_	ok, thx Chousuke for this remark. Good catch :-)
10:35	rhickey	raphinou_: I don't see a patch there
10:36	raphinou_	ho, you're right rhickey. I just looked at his status update
10:37	Chousuke	hm, I wonder if he has notice the patch isn't there.
10:37	Chousuke	noticed*
10:38	cgrand	patch attached
10:43	ambient	not sure if this is the right place to ask but emacs doesn't seem to smart indent in clj file buffers, only in repl. any way to enable the indent in the file buffers?
10:43	eevar2	ambient: does hitting tab indent your lines correctly?
10:45	rhickey	cgrand: thanks, approved. Is 186 supposed to have a patch attached? It is marked 'test' but no patch
10:47	cgrand	attached!
10:47	cgrand	I should learn to click submit buttons...
10:47	Chouser	ah... yes, you get multiple submit buttons on the assembla pages.
10:48	Chouser	if you fill out the file upload and then fill out a comment without "submit" in between, you're going to lose one or the other.
10:48	Chousuke	bad UI :/
10:49	Chouser	Chousuke: fortunately that's the only site on the web with a bad UI, so we can all relaz.
10:49	Chouser	relax
10:49	cgrand	Chouser: ah? thanks!
10:49	Chousuke	heh.
10:50	Chousuke	I'm picky about UIs
10:50	rhickey	cgrand: cool - thanks for all the patches!
10:53	ambient	eevar2 yes it seems to do that
10:54	cgrand	rhickey: 186 should also apply cleanly on 1.0.x
10:54	eevar2	rebinding the enter key to 'newline-and-indent, rather than just 'newline might do the trick
10:54	ambient	ok, i shall try that, ty
11:05	raphinou_	rhickey, cgrand: FYI, I tested patch 181 and it works fine. thanks for the fix!
13:04	cemerick	wow, java 5 becomes EOL'ed this October
13:10	fdaoud	wow indeed
13:29	ambient	what would be the best data structure to handle 2d 24-bit RGB images? 1d arrays?
13:29	ambient	hmm, perhaps this is premature optimization
13:32	stuartsierra	ambient: 1-d arrays are generally the best way to manage binary data
13:33	ambient	ok
13:33	dnolen	ambient: 1d arrays are going to provide the fastest access to primitive data. 2d arrays are quite slow.
13:34	dnolen	rather > 1d arrays are slow. every dimension is another hit on dereferencing.
13:34	ambient	optimally, increasing the dimension only takes 1 clock cycle on the CPU, shift left
13:35	dnolen	ambient: not sure how the JVM does this, but it actually more like 3-4x slower for 2d arrays.
13:35	dnolen	in my own experience anyway.
13:35	ambient	ok
13:35	stuartsierra	In the JVM, byte[][] creates an array of pointers to byte[]
13:36	ambient	aww
13:36	ambient	1d array of size width*height seems to be the way to do it then
13:48	Chouser	anyone know of a CSS parser for Java/clojure?
13:49	Chouser	oh, google says http://cssparser.sourceforge.net/
13:49	LauJensen	Cant enlive handle that Chouser?
13:50	Chouser	enlive queries DOM trees, so no.
13:55	LauJensen	k
15:37	angerman	how much of kotka's stuff has made it into clojure? monads, lazy-map?
15:38	angerman	I'm just wondering what would be duplicated stuff if I used the parser
15:49	stuartsierra	Neither monads nor lazy-map are include in the Clojure distribution. monads are in contrib, I think.
15:55	angerman	stuartsierra: that's not kotka's stuff is it?
15:57	stuartsierra	oh, I don't know who wrote what
15:57	angerman	stuartsierra: well monads is by Konrad Hinsen
15:58	angerman	stuartsierra: ujmp is the universal java math p(...)
15:59	angerman	The thing with math libraries is: I don't want to care what sub-library is used. I just want to use a certain functionality and the library is supposed to take the best solution for the task. [...]
15:59	angerman	If I have 80 cores spare. it should try to get the best parrallel solution... if there are a lot of GPUs available it should try a more OpenCL or OpenGL or what ever seems possible solution.
15:59	angerman	but ujmp at least has the option to work with matrices bigger then the memory
16:00	stuartsierra	What you're describing is the holy grail of library optimization.
16:00	angerman	stuartsierra: yes I know :(
16:00	stuartsierra	I think that's one of the goals of Sun's X10 language.
16:00	angerman	it's a bit like jiting.
16:01	angerman	stuartsierra: the thing is, being a student. I work in very heterogenus networks.
16:01	stuartsierra	me too, as a coder in academia
16:02	angerman	e.g. I have two macbook, a p4 and access to the 4 mainfraims from the university. (though I never now how much resources are left on the mainframes)
16:02	angerman	(second macbook being the one of my g/f :)
16:02	stuartsierra	Right, so you want code that's automatically optimized for any one of those environments. For now, dream on.
16:03	angerman	maybe it boils down to that :)
16:04	angerman	all I want is to get the stupid breast cancer classification I work on to yield nice results and not violate any reasoning.
16:06	prospero_	angerman: OpenCL is designed to work on CPUs and GPUs
16:06	prospero_	what's missing is something that will distribute work across multiple OpenCL kernels
16:06	prospero_	but as far as I understand it, it's being positioned as a homogeneous interface to heterogeneous computing resources
16:06	angerman	prospero_: well I'd like to look at it from a way higher perspective.
16:07	prospero_	well, one layer of abstraction at a time
16:07	angerman	prospero_: I look at the problem the following way: I have a box with a certain amount of chips inside that all can do special computations. (some more generic then the others)
16:08	angerman	and then I have a problem: run a SVM on a dataset.
16:08	angerman	the first issue I run into is the limit of matrixes.
16:09	angerman	I have yet to see which java library does not exhibit that. I ran into issues with matlab and python so far.
16:10	prospero_	you mean limits in the dimensions?
16:10	stuartsierra	how big are your matrices?
16:10	angerman	stuartsierra: more entries then an integer is large.
16:10	prospero_	ha
16:10	angerman	And I think that's an inherative issue with BLAS ...
16:11	prospero_	can't matrix operations be split over sub-matrices?
16:11	angerman	prospero_: in theory sure, split a matrix into four soub matrices
16:12	ambient	why not just parallelize by row
16:12	angerman	prospero_: the issue is the algorithm I'm supposed to use.
16:12	angerman	ambient: that's the next way I'm about to tackle.
16:12	angerman	the last solution I uses was so called recursive feature selection.
16:12	ambient	sounds complicated
16:13	angerman	problem with that approach is, it's not stable.
16:13	ambient	stable means so many things in CS
16:13	ambient	:P
16:13	angerman	ambient: this is stable it the most understandable way.
16:14	angerman	slightly vary the parameter (in this case the amount of features to keep in each run) and the result varies
16:14	angerman	and it's not even converging
16:15	angerman	anyway, thanks for listening guys :)
16:16	ambient	i wish the nice implmenetations of BLAS weren't so expensive :/
16:18	angerman	ambient: I wish I wasn't supposed to use lagranean svm :)
16:20	prospero_	on a vaguely related note, did anyone see the penumbra GPGPU stuff that's been on programming.reddit?
16:20	prospero_	and if so, do they have any ideas on what would be an effective application to use as a tutorial?
16:21	prospero_	I'm thinking n-body, and looking at how performance changes as n grows
16:21	ambient	laplace transform?
16:21	prospero_	but I dunno if that's going to grab people
16:22	prospero_	which do you think would be more understandable to people without a strong math background
16:22	prospero_	because I don't think that's a prerequisite to using this
16:22	prospero_	or rather, it shouldn't be
16:23	ambient	well you could show them simple 2d fluid simulation
16:23	prospero_	hell, I'm pretty weak math-wise myself
16:23	ambient	that looks really nice
16:23	prospero_	yeah, that would be a good one
16:23	ambient	dont remember what the formulas were called
16:23	prospero_	navier-stokes
16:23	prospero_	?
16:23	ambient	yep, thats it
16:24	prospero_	I could also do something much simpler, like the mona lisa evolution thing that was floating around
16:24	prospero_	then the GPU would just be used as a fitness evaluator
16:24	ambient	im not sure that's good for GPGPU
16:24	angerman	or just do fft :p
16:24	prospero_	you need to compare NxM pixels to each other
16:24	prospero_	and then sum the absolute differences together, to get the fitness
16:24	hiredman	http://gist.github.com/179346 is an aot test script
16:25	Licenser	evening everyone :)
16:25	hiredman	(nonsequitur for clojurebot's url logger)
16:25	prospero_	also, the image is already living on the GPU, since you rendered it
16:25	prospero_	I agree, it's not custom-fitted to GPGPU
16:26	prospero_	but it's a nice demonstration of how the whole logic doesn't have to fit on the graphics card
16:26	prospero_	I dunno, I guess I could just do all of them over a few months
16:26	angerman	if you want other nice things you could so spring simularion.
16:26	ambient	jpeg compression
16:26	ambient	that's just not very visual
16:26	prospero_	angerman: flag in the wind, or something?
16:27	angerman	e.g. chain 5 to 10 springs together and let the system find it's least-energy point
16:27	angerman	I might have a matlab file i wrote for class floating around somewhere ...
16:28	prospero_	eh, I don't really speak matlab, so I don't know how much good it'd do me
16:28	prospero_	but all good ideas
16:28	angerman	prospero_: if you know any imperative language you know matlab :(
16:29	prospero_	angerman: ok, fair enough
16:29	prospero_	at the very least, I've never tried
16:29	angerman	R is a very different beast though :)
16:31	angerman	prospero_: once I find the code I'll hand you a copy :)
16:31	angerman	can't take too long to find it :)
16:31	prospero_	angerman: ok, thanks
16:31	angerman	prospero_: maybe you mix processing in for the visuals
16:32	prospero_	angerman: I've already got a full-fledged OpenGL implementation
16:32	prospero_	it was kind of a necessary prerequisite to the GPGPU stuff
16:37	angerman	ok, found it.
16:37	angerman	where to send?
16:38	angerman	ahh got an idea
16:40	angerman	do public dropbox links work?
16:40	angerman	https://dl-web.getdropbox.com/get/Matlab-Spring-Simulation.zip?w=cc3f9d92&dl=1
16:40	ambient	403
16:41	angerman	awesome ...
16:43	angerman	http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/281539/Matlab-Spring-Simulation.zip
16:47	angerman	basically it's implementing a runge-kutta solver
16:51	Licenser	I wonder what is the best way to make Ruby (rails) talk to Clojure
16:52	Licenser	Is there a suggested and well working model for that?
16:53	Anniepoo	Use the JACOB library and the clojure binding to it somebody wrote to get to COM, then from COM to Ruby via the Ruby WIN32OLE extension =8cD
16:54	Licenser	I had the idea to use compojure (or how it is spelled) to make a RESTfull http model, then use ActiveResource on the ruby side, but having a webserver handle HTTP just to move some data seems to be a huge overhead and likely to kill every performance reason to do this
16:54	Licenser	Erm yes, let me just install windows on this sparc server o.o
16:54	Anniepoo	Use a windows emulator 8cD
16:54	Licenser	ah dosbox!
16:55	Licenser	I guess using sockets and a properetary protocoll might be better but then again isn't nearly as flexible I think
16:57	Anniepoo	I think the objective with capjure is to promote scalability, not per-box performance
16:57	Licenser	what is capjure?
16:57	Licenser	looks it up
16:57	hiredman	Licenser: you could use jruby and integrate via the jvm
16:58	Licenser	true the idea isn't bad
16:58	headius	yay
16:58	Licenser	actually I think it is quite ingeniuse
16:58	Licenser	too obviouse so
16:58	stuartsierra	Licenser: I mix JRuby and Clojure in one VM, haven't tried it with Rails.
16:58	stuartsierra	Interop is easy though, since they both implement the Java Collection interfaces.
16:59	Anniepoo	ask amit - Runa's mostly in Clojure, but their legacy stuff is Ruby
16:59	Anniepoo	http://s-expressions.com/2009/03/31/capjure-a-simple-hbase-persistence-layer/
16:59	Anniepoo	this explains some of the rational for capjure
16:59	hiredman	you could use some kind of message queue
16:59	hiredman	bus
17:00	Licenser	nods
17:00	Licenser	that ends up with a proparitary implementation, not sure if that is good or bad
17:01	Licenser	I mean it would likely yield the best mixture of performance vs scalability
17:08	Chouser	so if I have a namespace of utilities that may be useful for both clojure users (who will call public functions) and Java users (who will call static methods of a gen-classed class), should I name the namespace util (clojurey) or Util (javay)
17:09	Anniepoo	it's a commercial question
17:09	Chousuke	you could have two namespaces :P
17:10	Chouser	and is it worth creating a -doSomeThings method fn that just turns around and calls the do-some-things fn?
17:10	Chouser	I guess I can just have the clojure users call the static methods
17:11	Anniepoo	I'd use the Java names - my argument - clojure includes the idea of calling java, so the 'world' is ready for a Java name in Clojure code
17:11	Chouser	then they'd expect (Util/doSomeThings ...)
17:12	Anniepoo	but the reverse isn't true
17:13	Anniepoo	any idea why ns-aliases always fails from the REPL?
17:14	Chouser	,(require '[clojure.zip :as z])
17:14	clojurebot	nil
17:14	Anniepoo	nvrmnd
17:14	Chouser	,(ns-aliases ns)
17:14	clojurebot	{z #<Namespace clojure.zip>}
17:14	hiredman	Anniepoo: what do you mean by fails?
17:14	Licenser	Chouser: I'd use the clojurey way
17:15	Anniepoo	,(ns-aliases 'foo)
17:15	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: No namespace: foo found
17:15	Anniepoo	,(do (in-ns 'foo) (def bar 2) (ns-aliases 'foo))
17:15	clojurebot	DENIED
17:16	hiredman	that is not an alias
17:16	Anniepoo	clojurebot: paste
17:16	clojurebot	lisppaste8, url
17:16	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
17:17	lisppaste8	Anniepoo pasted "ns-aliases" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86391
17:18	Chouser	Anniepoo: namespace aliases are created using alias or the :as clause of use or require
17:19	Anniepoo	ah, ok
17:19	stuartsierra	The gen-class name does not have to be the same as the ns name, either.
17:19	Chouser	not quite sure why (ns-aliases 'user) doesn't work.
17:19	Chouser	stuartsierra: yeah...
17:19	Anniepoo	I'm trying to find a seq of public symbols in the namespace
17:20	hiredman	Chouser: works here
17:20	Chouser	hiredman: right, that's what I meant.
17:20	Chouser	dunno why it fails in her paste
17:20	Chouser	Anniepoo: ns-publics
17:20	hiredman	,(count (ns-publics ns))
17:20	clojurebot	0
17:20	hiredman	:\|
17:20	Anniepoo	I want to make a tool for myself to learn all the core and contrib functions
17:20	hiredman	,(count (ns-publics 'clojure.core))
17:20	clojurebot	477
17:20	hiredman	zounds
17:22	Anniepoo	ah, i switched to foo namespace before (ns-aliases 'user)
17:23	hiredman	that shouldn't matter
17:23	Anniepoo	lovely
17:23	Anniepoo	did matter to me
17:23	hiredman	:/
17:23	Anniepoo	this in the slime-repl clojure in emacs
17:24	Anniepoo	is there a function version of doc?
17:25	Chouser	print-doc
17:25	hiredman	print-doc takes a var
17:26	Anniepoo	,(def boo 'clojure.core/merge)(print-doc boo)
17:26	clojurebot	DENIED
17:26	Chouser	,(print-doc #'identity)
17:26	clojurebot	------------------------- clojure.core/identity ([x]) Returns its argument.
17:27	Anniepoo	ooh, var, not symbol 8cD
17:27	Anniepoo	way cool
17:55	powr-toc	The docs at http://clojure.org/Reader say "keywords are like symbols except ... they cannot contain '.' or name classes" yet the following seems to work without error:
17:55	powr-toc	,:foo.bar
17:55	clojurebot	:foo.bar
17:55	lisppaste8	ambient pasted "lazy-seq problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86393
17:56	ambient	i have print-length set to 20 but (foo 5000000) still eats all my memory and crashes :/
17:56	hiredman	~ticket #1
17:56	clojurebot	{:url http://tinyurl.com/ntftnj, :summary "Add chunk support to map filter et al", :status :test, :priority :normal, :created-on "2009-06-13T14:38:41+00:00"}
17:56	hiredman	hmmm
17:57	hiredman	~ticket #17
17:57	clojurebot	{:url http://tinyurl.com/nq6ef7, :summary "GC Issue 13: validate in (keyword s) and (symbol s)", :status :test, :priority :low, :created-on "2009-06-17T18:56:26+00:00"}
17:58	hiredman	ambient: don't use recur
17:58	hiredman	(inside a lazy-seq call)
17:58	ambient	it can't be used in lazy sequences?
17:58	hiredman	I would look for some examples of how to write functions using lazy-seq
17:59	Chousuke	ambient: it's not needed
17:59	hiredman	ambient: not inside the call to lazy-seq
17:59	ambient	well i dont quite grok lazy-seq yet but here's for more trying
17:59	Chousuke	(doc lazy-seq)
17:59	clojurebot	"([& body]); Takes a body of expressions that returns an ISeq or nil, and yields a Seqable object that will invoke the body only the first time seq is called, and will cache the result and return it on all subsequent seq calls."
17:59	hiredman	lazy-seq essentially creates a thunk, which sets up another recur point
17:59	hiredman	so recur doesn't recur to the function frame
18:00	hiredman	it recurs to the thunk created by lazy-seq
18:01	hiredman	wait
18:01	hiredman	that might not be right
18:01	hiredman	I didn't notice the (loop there
18:01	hiredman	just saw a recur inside a (lazy-seq
18:01	Chousuke	the most common pattern is (defn foo [x] (when x (lazy-seq (cons (something x) (foo (somethingelse x))))))
18:02	hiredman	but that is certainly not the way to produce a lazy sequence
18:02	Chousuke	now the trick is that since foo itself returns a lazy thing, the second argument of the cons is not actually evaluated until it's needed.
18:04	ambient	that looks a lot like tail recursion
18:04	Anniepoo	,(read-line)
18:04	Anniepoo	dsfsdfsd
18:04	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
18:05	tomoj	so, lazy-seq does or does not set up a recur point?
18:05	tomoj	I didn't think it did
18:05	Anniepoo	hmm.... doing (read-line) at the repl in emacs hangs me, it takes an infinite number of lines
18:05	hiredman	~def lazy-seq
18:06	Chousuke	ambient: basically, you're setting up a thunk (with lazy-seq) that, when evaluated, conses whatever to another lazy sequence (which happens to be generated by the same function)
18:06	tomoj	Anniepoo: emacs does some weird things with input/output
18:06	tomoj	er, well, slime with clojure anyway
18:06	Anniepoo	8cD I broke it. I must be getting better at this
18:07	Chousuke	ambient: and this "recursion" stops when foo returns nil and the return value of the previous invocation becomes (lazy-seq (cons whatever nil))
18:07	Anniepoo	bet it's cause clojure only has half the proper \r\n at the end of the line
18:07	ambient	but it can be infinite too right?
18:07	Chousuke	ambient: yes.
18:08	hiredman	it sort of flatten's out the stack
18:08	ambient	well it takes some absorbing but thanks for the help
18:08	Chousuke	ambient: but because the "recursion" is lazy it won't accumulate stack frames.
18:08	tomoj	Anniepoo: I don't think it's anything to do with that
18:08	tomoj	Anniepoo: because I get the problem too
18:08	tomoj	it's just that slime doesn't have the repl connected to standard in, I guess
18:09	Anniepoo	ok, so read-line is broken within the repl? foo - that limits the usefulness of my toy
18:09	Chousuke	ambient: when consing, foo gets called, then returns the thunk, at which point it's done. then, when someone calls (rest ...), the thunk is evaluated, resulting in another call to foo which again returns just a thunk, etc...
18:09	tomoj	Anniepoo: just program functionally..
18:10	tomoj	if you really want to read-line in the repl, it seems you can get it to work by going to the inferior lisp buffer to type in the input, but it seems to chop off the first character
18:10	Anniepoo	no, this is the 'repl' loop of a toy trainer , I need a loop - it's the UI
18:10	Anniepoo	thanks tomoj
18:11	Chousuke	can't you use your own repl function?
18:11	tomoj	I think you shouldn't use your repl within slime's repl
18:11	Anniepoo	no, no, I want to MAKE a repl like function - it shows you the docstring for a function, you type in the function name, - to learn clojure libs
18:12	tomoj	that doesn't sound like a repl to me :)
18:12	tomoj	but yeah, why run it within slime?
18:13	Anniepoo	of course -read, evaluate (did they get it right?) then print
18:13	Anniepoo	cause I'm debugging it?
18:13	hiredman	…
18:13	hiredman	sure, sure, debugging
18:13	Anniepoo	ok, I'm enbugging it
18:22	ambient	(defn foon [x] (when (> x 0) (lazy-seq (foo (- x 1))))) i still get out of memory error with this :/
18:22	powr-toc	are there any simple clojure examples of clojure programs that write simple clojure programs?
18:24	Anniepoo	,(def i-write-clojure [a b] '(+ a b)) (i-write-clojure 3 2)
18:24	clojurebot	DENIED
18:24	Anniepoo	(that's defn)
18:25	powr-toc	I'm looking for inspiration/wisdom on how to programmatically write a simple s-exp tree of functions, which can later be executed
18:25	brool	powr-toc: well, any macro
18:25	tomoj	it's just lists
18:25	Anniepoo	,(defn iwc [a b] '(+ a b)) (iwc 2 3)
18:25	clojurebot	DENIED
18:26	Anniepoo	that works at the repl, it's just clojurebot won't let me pollute it's innerds
18:26	tomoj	that works at your repl???
18:26	powr-toc	brool: I know macros can do it, but I'm looking first at doing it without macros
18:26	tomoj	it doesn't work at my repl
18:26	Anniepoo	sorry, brain not working
18:27	Anniepoo	(defn iwc [a b] (list '+ a b))(iwc 2 3)
18:28	Anniepoo	that does
18:28	tomoj	or `(+ ~a ~b)
18:28	tomoj	the simplest way depends on what kind of stuff you want to build up I guess
18:32	powr-toc	tomoj: well ultimately I'm wanting to compose a filter pipeline, where the vast majority of functions are filters... i.e. it's just a list of functions that take the same argument... I will also need a very basic form of branching
18:33	tomoj	it seems strange to me to build the clojure code up in lists
18:33	tomoj	but sometimes you need to do that I guess
18:33	Anniepoo	,(doc apply)
18:33	clojurebot	"([f args* argseq]); Applies fn f to the argument list formed by prepending args to argseq."
18:33	tomoj	like someone was in here before with a genetic programming thing that built up clojure code as lists
18:34	powr-toc	tomoj: so what would you suggest? Macros?
18:34	tomoj	I dunno, I still don't understand what you're trying to do
18:34	Anniepoo	powr, are you needing apply? like to write some filter-all I'd get the filter funs one by one and do apply with them (or map)
18:35	tomoj	you mean the functions are fixed and you just want to compose them in different ways?
18:36	tomoj	you don't need to have clojure write clojure code to do that
18:38	powr-toc	tomoj: well the idea is to have a restricted language, with a fixed set of filter funs that can be composed in different ways (probably ultimately built by partial application of arguments to more generic functions)... This tree should then form several purposes... 1) be executable 2) be easily processed into other representations, e.g. a graph
18:38	powr-toc	(by graph I mean a pictoral representation of the tree/program)
18:39	powr-toc	It should be pretty easy... but I've yet spent enough time with clojure to work it all out
18:39	powr-toc	s/yet/not-yet/
18:39	tomoj	sorry, I still don't understand what you're saying really
18:39	Anniepoo	check out zippers
18:40	tomoj	if all you needed was to compose some functions, you can just (apply comp thefunctions)
18:40	tomoj	to get a function that's the composition
18:40	Anniepoo	I think you don't really want the tree to be executable, you want to be able to interpret it
18:41	powr-toc	Anniepoo: what advantage does that have?
18:41	Anniepoo	he's got a datastructure, he wants to represent it in various ways, one of which is execution
18:42	Anniepoo	(sorry, thot that was tomoj writing - s/he's/you/)
18:44	brool	powr-toc: so, given a list of functions, you want to apply predicates, possibly with conditionals? i.e., on numbers, [ (if >0? even?) (if <0? odd?) ] to find even negative and odd positive numbers?
18:44	brool	whoops, even positive and odd negatives
18:45	Anniepoo	ok, so you want a function (filter-all [seq-of-filters seq]) that reduces seq by applying each filtern in seq-of-filters in turn?
18:46	tomoj	that's what I thought too, but that's not a very good tree
18:47	Anniepoo	pine tree?
18:47	tomoj	I mean, it's just (foo (bar (baz ...)))
18:47	tomoj	not a very interesting tree I should say
18:49	Anniepoo	maybe that's whats wanted - (apply (comp filters) s)
18:49	tomoj	rather ((apply comp filters) s) I would think
18:49	Anniepoo	yah, you're right
18:50	powr-toc	You'd be right if I only needed filtering, but I need to represent it as a tree because I have conditionals... as execution might proceed down different branches... so at the top level I have a value to test... the value gets passed down a series of filters that test criteria... if those criteria pass then it might come to a branch-point, that might (on the basis of another function) randomly decide which branch to pass the value
18:50	powr-toc	for further evaluation
18:50	brool	so, it's still a list of filters, where some of the filters are a composition of other functions
18:50	tomoj	so you're doing logical combinations of predicate functions?
18:51	powr-toc	and it is those branch points, that make it a tree... and it is those along with the criteria that (amongst other things) I would want to represent pictorially
18:51	powr-toc	tomoj: yes
18:52	powr-toc	brool: yes
18:52	powr-toc	brool: except that I want to be able to draw what the tree of combinations looks like
18:53	powr-toc	(or at least have it a form that is easy to do such things)
18:54	tomoj	yeah doesn't sound to me like you want to be producing clojure code
18:55	brool	powr-toc: yah, the form of '(filter1 filter2 (branch filter3 filter4)) seems amenable
18:55	powr-toc	brool: that's the form I'm looking at
18:56	powr-toc	or perhaps more like '(filter1 filter2 (branch '(filter3 filter4) '(filter5 filter6)))
18:56	tomoj	eh
18:56	tomoj	I must be too tired
18:56	tomoj	I have no idea what you two are talking about :)
18:57	powr-toc	tomoj: haha... I had no idea I was so bad at explaining things... You can't be the only one ;-)
18:57	brool	branch just applies one set of filters or another, based on a conditional, i think
18:57	powr-toc	brool: exactly
18:57	tomoj	but where's the conditional
18:58	Anniepoo	so, powr, your filters might be something like
18:59	Anniepoo	(beanie-babies? tacos? (or lemons? unguents?) rats?)
19:00	tomoj	the way I understood it makes it difficult to write in something like boolean logic
19:01	tomoj	maybe it would help if you gave us an example :+
19:01	Anniepoo	(powr, the pain goes down with time)
19:02	Anniepoo	ok, all, I've written a little file in emacs/slime, now how do I load the buffer?
19:02	brool	Ctrl-C Ctrl-L, I think? should be on the menu
19:02	Anniepoo	ah, ok, thanks
19:02	Anniepoo	the menu forces me into bad places (a winders file dialog)
19:04	tomoj	C-c C-k
19:04	ambient	wait, is (not (= x)) only way to test not equal?
19:04	ambient	(not (= x 0))
19:04	brool	ambient: (not= x 0)
19:04	ambient	ok ty
19:17	Anniepoo	no clojure.contrib in my classpath for slime
19:21	brool	Anniepoo: did you add (setq swank-clojure-extra-classpaths ...)?
19:21	Anniepoo	no, that goes in .emacs?
19:21	Anniepoo	and does it literally have an ellipsis in it?
19:22	tomoj	clojure-install set that up magically for me I guess :/
19:22	brool	no, i was eliding for brevity. i set mine up on Mac OS and it was kind of a pain
19:22	brool	let me paste me .emacs somewhere, sec
19:22	Anniepoo	thanks
19:23	tomoj	I think if it's unset you can just drop the jar in ~/.clojure
19:23	tomoj	whatever ~ means on windows
19:23	lisppaste8	brool pasted ".emacs for slime/clojure" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86395
19:23	Anniepoo	thanks
19:24	tomoj	that last line seems strange to me
19:24	tomoj	isn't that the default?
19:24	brool	tomoj: wasn't working without it, but i might have a strange configuration
19:25	brool	seems strange you'd have to add it explicitly, i admit
19:26	tomoj	oh hmm
19:26	powr-toc	brool: tomoj: sorry... got interrupted by the misses...
19:26	tomoj	actually seems the default is to take clojure-src-root and stick on /clojure-contrib-src/
19:27	tomoj	er, /clojure-contrib/src/
19:27	Anniepoo	I had an install with a lot of problems, somebody turned me on to clojure box and I installed that
19:27	tomoj	oh.. dunno anything about clojure box
19:28	Anniepoo	strangely, I can't FIND a .emacs now
19:32	powr-toc	tomoj: branch would be a type of conditional... it would force evaluation down one of the branches on the basis of the value passed in
19:35	powr-toc	Though those values have been ommited from the sexp I showed above... as I thought they'd be supplied by apply or -> or some such
19:45	ambient	getting stack overflow errors with loop/recur.. wth :/
19:49	Anniepoo	clojurebot: paste
19:49	clojurebot	lisppaste8, url
19:49	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
19:50	ambient	nah, i got emacs macro for that :D
19:51	lisppaste8	Anniepoo pasted ".emacs" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86397
19:53	Anniepoo	it's expecting a list?
19:54	ambient	try / instead of \\
19:54	Anniepoo	I suspect emacs would be cool if it worked, but it doesn't
19:56	Anniepoo	forward slashes didn't help
19:56	lisppaste8	ambient pasted "prime number gen stack problems" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86398
19:56	ambient	cant even get 1M primes :/
20:00	hiredman	ambient: I would suggest going back through the pastes in #clojure, there must be about 1M methods for finding primes
20:00	hiredman	I imagine everyone in the channel is sick of it (maybe it's just me)
20:00	ambient	my problem isnt finding primes but learning clojure while writing code for finding primes
20:00	ambient	yeah ok
20:00	ambient	i shall look around
20:01	ambient	im sure nobody hasnt done huffman compression? :p thats my next step
20:01	hiredman	http://paste.lisp.org/list/clojure if your not familiar with paste.lisp
20:01	Anniepoo	anybody know where I might find documentation for swank-clojure-extra-classpaths??
20:03	ambient	doesnt that thing have a search functionality?
20:05	hiredman	google?
20:06	hiredman	http://delicious.com/search?p=prime&chk=&context=userposts\|clojurebot\|lisppaste8&fr=del_icio_us&lc=0
20:07	brool	ambient: http://paste.lisp.org/display/69952
20:08	ambient	those things dont really solve my original problem, which was to find out the reason for running out of stack, but it might be better to continue this tomorrow
20:09	Anniepoo	ok, adding (list ) around it fixed the error, but addign that to my emacs isn't curing the problem
20:09	Anniepoo	,(require 'clojure.contrib)
20:09	clojurebot	java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib__init.class or clojure/contrib.clj on classpath:
20:10	Anniepoo	same message I get
20:12	hiredman	well
20:12	hiredman	there is such thing as clojure.contrib
20:12	hiredman	so that is exactly correct
20:13	Anniepoo	??
20:13	hiredman	there are a bunch of namespaces that start with clojure.contrib
20:13	Anniepoo	ah!
20:13	Anniepoo	Aaaargh!
20:13	Anniepoo	LOL
20:13	Anniepoo	ok, I've been blaming emacs
20:15	brool	Anniepoo: that's M-x blame-emacs
20:16	Anniepoo	when I type that it writes a bunch of i-nodes into my NTFS file system
20:31	Anniepoo	ok, I can load my toy program, but can't get the repl to figure out where it is
20:32	Anniepoo	as in funfun is my namespace, but (require 'funfun) complains it can't find it
20:32	Anniepoo	ah!
20:35	powr-toc	does the mantra "use exceptions for exceptional conditions" apply in idiomatic clojure, or is it acceptable to signal other events whilst unwinding the stack?
20:35	powr-toc	with exceptions?
20:36	Anniepoo	it's very rare to throw exceptions in clojure
20:36	Anniepoo	it's a functional language, you're always 'unwinding the stack'
20:46	powr-toc	Anniepoo: what about error-kit then?
20:47	Anniepoo	error-kit?
20:47	Anniepoo	sorry, i just rebooted
20:47	Anniepoo	ah, the issue of exceptions
20:48	powr-toc	clojure.contrib.error-kit ... similar to common lisps condition system
20:48	Anniepoo	yes, the 'use exceptions for exceptional conditions' applies
20:51	Anniepoo	this is stupid
20:51	Anniepoo	attempting to load the file directly at the repl fails
21:13	Anniepoo	is ; a comment in elisp?
21:13	brool	yes
21:14	Anniepoo	thank you
21:16	Anniepoo	8cD got paredit working, now if only I could run my program from within emacs
21:18	Anniepoo	I've got some bug - it's throwing an exception. But the stack trace doesn't give a clue where it is
21:19	Anniepoo	(thanks to those helping me deal with emacs 2day)
21:21	brool	did you try (.printStackTrace (.getCause *e))?
21:21	brool	Anniepoo: honestly, it's worth it once everything's working!
21:22	brool	or, if slime pops up the exception, you can hit "0" to get the root cause, usually
21:22	Anniepoo	ah! thanks! that's what that's for
21:23	Anniepoo	I keep getting bufferes with error messages
21:23	Anniepoo	I have to quit out of emacs every 10 mins to clear out all those buffers
21:23	Anniepoo	is there a way to get rid of them?
21:26	hiredman	stop doing things to generate errors?
21:27	Anniepoo	format /f c: ? become Amish?
21:27	brool	If you become Amish first, you don't need to format. More efficient.
21:28	brool	I think Q? or one of the number keys? iirc it says in the exception window how to close it.
21:28	Anniepoo	If I were Amish I'd be struggling with a wagon wheel that kept coming loose
21:28	Anniepoo	can't get away from technical issues
21:29	kylesmith_	Is anyone here familiar with Incanter?
21:30	kylesmith_	I'm trying to use non-local-model. It works for a toy example, but I'm getting divide by zero on other data.
21:30	brool	Probably be the same type of conversation anyway. "Oh, you're on 1.01 of the wagon wheel? You'll need to install 1.02 and make sure that your axle path is all set up properly."
21:30	Anniepoo	ok, I've got paredit, and I'm trying to turn s into (vec s) - is there a way to do this without retyping s?
21:32	liebke	kylesmith_: do you mean non-linear-model? do you have more details?
21:33	nsel	Anniepoo: put the cursor before s and do M-(. Also, try reading the docs...
21:33	kylesmith_	oh yeah, non-linear-model.
21:33	Anniepoo	sorry - found it, it's called "depth changing commands"
21:34	kylesmith_	I'm trying to it to fit parameters for classical molecular dynamics.
21:34	liebke	kylesmith_: were you using the default :guass-newton option or :newton_raphson?
21:35	kylesmith_	I used a homegrown optimization function before, so I don't think the problem is in my code.
21:35	kylesmith_	I just tried both.
21:35	liebke	same error in both cases?
21:35	kylesmith_	yep
21:36	liebke	have you tried different starting values? (I'm trying to see if I can track down where the problem might be)
21:37	nsel	yeah the paredit docs are a little confusing, probably just because it's a hard thing to explain in a text file
21:37	kylesmith_	well, my starting values should be reasonable, but let me play around with it
21:37	liebke	I'm sure they are, I'm just trying to see were my code is having a problem
21:38	liebke	maybe try reducing :max-iter (which defaults to 200). I need to make that function more robust, obviously :)
21:45	kylesmith_	still calculating... my code is slow (I haven't done any performance optimization yet)
21:47	kylesmith_	I included an arbitrary offset in my potentials (to compare between different programs). I just adjusted it such that the initial sum of squares would be much closer to zero. It crashed right away before, but it's still going. crosses fingers
21:48	liebke	I'll have to sign off soon, but you can email me, liebke at gmail. I haven't looked at the optimization library for a while, but I'll see if I can figure what the problem is on my side.
21:49	kylesmith_	Cool, I'll email you a stack trace if it happens again.
21:49	liebke	thanks, good luck!
21:49	Anniepoo	@nsel - yah, I'm trying to find answers myself first, probably less so now, I'm at the end of a frusttrating 56 hours of fighting emacs
21:49	Anniepoo	(5 hour, not 56 =8c))
21:52	nsel	it'll be 56 by the end of next week :) emacs is incredible but boy is it frustrating. It keeps going deeper and getting cooler until you're far enough in you can't ever use another editor because of what you'd be giving up, but you're not to the point where your emacs works right yet.
21:54	nsel	anyway didn't mean to bite your head off
21:54	Anniepoo	in total I'm about 35 hours in
21:54	Anniepoo	np
21:56	Anniepoo	I wonder if there are enough people in the bay area going thru this now to justify a get-together-and-slam-heads-collectively thing
22:07	Anniepoo	aaargh.....
22:14	prospero_	so I just installed Snow Leopard, and my GPGPU benchmark is now running 10x faster
22:14	prospero_	100x faster than Java
22:14	prospero_	how about that
22:16	mattrepl	nice
22:17	prospero_	I already knew it was spending the majority of the time waiting to talk to the graphics card
22:17	prospero_	I just figured it was a hardware limitation
22:18	Anniepoo	is this thru CUDA?
22:19	prospero_	GLSL
22:19	prospero_	http://ideolalia.com/performance-in-clojure-and-factor
22:23	Anniepoo	yah, this is great!
23:14	technomancy	so are auto-gensyms only guaranteed to be consistent within a single backquote form?
23:14	technomancy	I've got a backquote inside a ~ inside a backquote with a let binding in the first backquote that I want to reference in the second.
23:14	technomancy	but it generates a different sym
23:22	hiredman	yes
23:22	technomancy	I think what I'm trying to do is ill-adivsed. =)
23:23	technomancy	I'm trying to generate a proxy form that implements methods from functions provided in a map.
23:24	hiredman	makes sense to me
23:24	Chouser	technomancy: proxy is a great base material to build things on.
23:24	Chouser	note though that it actually uses a map internally that you're allowed to manipulate -- you might not even need a macro.
23:26	hiredman	,(doc init-proxy)
23:26	clojurebot	"([proxy mappings]); Takes a proxy instance and a map of strings (which must correspond to methods of the proxy superclass/superinterfaces) to fns (which must take arguments matching the corresponding method, plus an additional (explicit) first arg corresponding to this, and sets the proxy's fn map."
23:26	technomancy	I just mean my nested backquote was probably ill-adivsed
23:26	technomancy	ooh.
23:26	technomancy	that's nice.
23:26	technomancy	thanks