#clojure – 2009-07-02

2009-07-02

00:00	Chouser	http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/regex/Pattern.html
00:01	Chouser	Under "Special constructs (non-capturing)" that lists various pieces that can be included in the regex pattern (which is what #"" is)
00:01	Chouser	for the flags you can see your options include each of idmsux
00:02	Chouser	Under "Field Summary" you can see a list of english-named flags, including DOTALL
00:02	Chouser	click on any of those to find out what flag letter to use, for example (?s)
00:03	newbie_	thanks you
00:04	newbie_	*thank
00:06	Chouser	np
00:22	newbie_	if i have a struct like the following (defstruct atest :t1 :t2) and a vector [ 1 2 ] is there another way to convert this in to a struct then to call (nth vec 1) (nth vec 2)?
00:31	jackdempsey	newbie_: just learning clojure myself but if you're going to do that a lot you could create a function and use some destructuring
00:31	jackdempsey	,(defstruct atest :t1 :t2)
00:32	jackdempsey	,(def avector [1 2])
00:32	jackdempsey	(defn make-atest [{t1 t2}] (struct atest t1 t2))
00:32	jackdempsey	oops
00:32	jackdempsey	,(defn make-atest [{t1 t2}] (struct atest t1 t2))
00:32	jackdempsey	,(make-atest avector)
00:32	jackdempsey	although i'm sure there's better ways, etc :-)
00:33	jackdempsey	can use (first avector) and (second avector) too fwiw
00:33	Paul___	IF I understand what you are asking,
00:33	Paul___	you can simply use apply.
00:33	Paul___	In other words, if you have your struct as given,
00:33	Paul___	you can do (apply atest [1 2])
00:33	Paul___	woops
00:34	Paul___	I meant, (apply struct atest [1 2])
00:34	Paul___	Does that answer your question, newbie, or did I misunderstand ?
00:34	newbie_	thank you both that is what i need
00:34	jackdempsey	yea i think you got it.....basically looking for a way to unroll a sequence into individual args
00:35	jackdempsey	nice, i have to remind myself of apply......used to *args from ruby
00:35	Paul___	Yeah, it's a similar use to *args ...
00:35	Paul___	BRB.
00:36	pmooser	Ok, back.
00:53	jackdempsey	so a question of style
00:53	jackdempsey	there're obviously a lot of java libraries out there
00:53	jackdempsey	and working with java in clojure seems pretty simple and easy
00:53	jackdempsey	do people find themselves writing wrappers to java libs often?
00:54	grrrt	not for simple stuff
00:54	jackdempsey	i'm looking to do some NLP stuff with clojure, and will probably make use of a bunch of java libs......but would prefer to code more like i'm in clojure
00:54	grrrt	but in my clojure SWT experiments, I can replace +/- 10 lines of java with 1 line of clojure
00:54	jackdempsey	nice
00:55	grrrt	I'm still doing things like (.open myWindow)
00:55	jackdempsey	so people wouldn't think it foolish to write some wrappers, or macros even i guess, to streamline what consumers of the lib might want ot do
00:55	jackdempsey	gotcha
00:55	grrrt	that's what I'm doing - it might still be foolish though :)
00:56	grrrt	Some things in java are truly hideous, like anonymous inner classes
00:57	grrrt	I define functions for that, so I don't have to use (proxy ....) all the time
00:58	grrrt	one drawback of wrapping could be that it might be difficult to still provide access to the "raw" java objects you're wrapping...
01:02	jackdempsey	yeah
01:03	jackdempsey	i mean i'm still really early to this, so i think i'll just go with something, and see how it feels
01:10	Chouser	the general recommendation is to not wrap too early.
01:10	Chouser	go ahead and use whatever java lib you need directly.
01:10	Chouser	But if you start to see patterns or ways you could make your clojure code clearer with some wrappers, then go for it.
01:10	Chouser	just no (defn parse-int [s] (Integer/parseInt s)) please
01:11	grrrt	no you don't really gain anything with that
01:12	Chouser	wait, am I still awake!?
01:24	Knekk	anyone know offhand how to solve this for compiling vimclojure on OSX ? /Users/jorgeb/CLOJURE/vimclojure-2.1.1/build.xml:66: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.contrib.pprint.PrettyWriter (pprint.clj:14)
02:07	netmage0606	Hello
02:09	netmage0606	If I understood it right then you can have access to all Java Libs with Clojure. So, there should be a way to program JavaFX with Clojure. Is there someone who tried this? Or are there some technical reasons which makes it for today impossible to program JavaFX in Clojure?
02:10	grrrt	as far as I know, there is no java API for javaFX
02:10	grrrt	you have to program in JavaFX script (or whatever it's called)
02:11	grrrt	there was a thread about this on the clojure google group not that long ago I think
02:13	netmage0606	grrrt: Thanks. I will look for this thread.
02:41	Lau_of_DK	Morning guys
04:26	duncanm	what's the right way to use the clojure.contrib.http.agent lib?
04:29	duncanm	ah, i got it
08:45	AWizzArd	Compiling (via ant) a freshly cloned Clojure repo now results in 6 files: clojure, slim and sources, and those three again but with an "alpha" extension.
08:46	AWizzArd	The ones without alpha: did they change since the last 1.0? Or are basically all the changes in the alphas?
08:47	Chouser	I would assume the alpha and non-alpha are identical
08:48	Chouser	yeah, they're the same
08:48	Chouser	it's just that one set has the version number so you'll know, the other left it out -- just to be shorter?
08:49	frodef	when a java method calls for "byte[]", how do I make a buffer like that?
08:49	Chouser	frodef: (into-array Byte/TYPE (map byte [1 2 3]))
08:50	Chouser	or make-array
08:50	frodef	Chouser: thanks.. how is that different from (make-array java.lang.Byte 100) which doesn't seem to work?
08:51	Chouser	frodef: it's the difference between an array of Byte and an array of byte
08:52	frodef	fascinating..
08:52	rhickey	anyone want to take a crack at chunked 'for'?
08:52	Chouser	Byte is an instance of a subclass of Object
08:53	Chouser	frodef: byte is a primitive type, handled specially by the JVM. It's not an Object at all, doesn't have any methods of its own, take up exactly one real byte in memory, etc.
08:54	frodef	Chouser: right, but it looks to me that the into-array thing returns an array of Byte? I get #<Byte[] [Ljava.lang.Byte;@5a71c3>
08:54	Chouser	(make-array Byte/TYPE 0) ==> #<byte[] [B@359ecd80>
08:55	Chouser	(make-array Byte 0) ==> #<Byte[] [Ljava.lang.Byte;@319c0bd6>
08:56	frodef	Chouser: oh right, I missed the Byte/TYPE part, sorry.. it works fine. thanks!
09:26	AWizzArd	Chouser: thanks for the alpha info
09:27	jweiss_	can someone tell me a good resource to learn how to read clojure? I can look up function names, but I have no idea what some symbols mean, like #, #^, etc.
09:27	dnolen	http://clojure.org
09:28	jweiss_	dnolen: uh, yeah
09:28	dnolen	look at the part on reader
09:28	dnolen	the reader
09:28	AWizzArd	I think that code is written in Java.
09:30	jweiss_	dnolen: ah ok that's what i was looking for thanks
09:31	dnolen	np
09:40	Jetien	hi! is there a more elegant way to check if a vector v contains a given element x than this?: (some #(== %1 x) v)
09:42	Chouser	(some #{x} v)
09:44	Jetien	thanks chouser
10:14	Jetien	i can' figure out how to solve this: for a given vector and element x i need the subvector of v starting with the first occurrence of x and all remaining elements
10:15	Jetien	my idea was using subvec but there doesn't seem to exist a function that yields the index of the first occurrence of an element in an vector
10:16	Chouser	hm. Well, there's .indexOf
10:17	Chouser	(defn subvec-starting-with [v x] (subvec v (.indexOf v x)))
10:17	Jetien	oh :)
10:17	Jetien	thanks
10:18	Jetien	i forgot that there's a java part to all collections
10:18	Chouser	:-)
10:18	Chouser	you rarely need it.
10:18	Chouser	that is, most of the useful operations are pulled out into clojure.core functions
10:19	Chouser	but some of the linear-search ones are not, I guess because they're discouraged?
10:19	Chouser	your vector doesn't happen to be in sorted order, does it?
10:19	Chouser	any sorted order?
10:19	Jetien	no, it's an arbitrary sequence of integers
10:20	Jetien	and the order is important
10:20	Chouser	yeah, this seems the most sensible way I can think of.
10:21	Chouser	similarly .contains is not exposed via a function, because vectors are a poor fit if you're going to be doing that kind of thing -- sets are better.
10:22	Jetien	so a clojure vector implements java.util.Vector ?
10:22	Chouser	but in this case a vector seems really right -- you care about order and you want to use subvec.
10:22	Chouser	(instance? java.util.Vector [1 2 3]) ==> false
10:22	duck1123	is there a public javadoc for the java part of clojure hosted anywhere?
10:23	Jetien	chouser: so how did you know you could invoke indexOf ?
10:23	Chouser	duck1123: not that I know of. Writing javadocs is on the todo, but I suppose when c-in-c is done that becomes a bit moot, or at least different...
10:24	Chouser	Jetien: You can use (supers (class [1 2 3])) to see what it implements, but I just used clojure.contrib.repl-utils/show
10:24	Chouser	(show [1 2 3]) lists all the methods you can get at.
10:24	Jetien	thanks
10:48	jackdempsey	can't seem to run that show
10:48	jackdempsey	am i missing something obvious?
10:48	jackdempsey	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: show in this context (NO_SOURCE_FILE:42)
10:48	jackdempsey	user=> (show [1 2 3])
10:49	cgrand	jackdempsey: show is in clojure.contrib.repl-utils
10:49	jackdempsey	hm yeah, i guess its not loading anymore
10:50	jackdempsey	k brb
10:50	Chouser	(use '[clojure.contrib.repl-utils :only [show javadoc source]])
10:55	jackdempsey	thx Chouser somethings not right with jars/paths/etc
10:55	jackdempsey	ah the fun
11:03	jackdempsey	yea i think when i updated to 1.0.0- contrib needed updating as well......and now i just have to figure out where to get what from to build. good experience tho
11:04	jackdempsey	clojure-contrib is still in svn right?
11:04	jackdempsey	just the main clojure on github?
11:08	achim	jackdempsey: both are on github
11:08	jackdempsey	oh ok, i guess i missed contrib
11:08	jackdempsey	jeez
11:08	jackdempsey	duh
11:08	jackdempsey	hadn't shown up in a search, strange
11:09	achim	the current clojure contrib won't work with clojure 1.0, i believe
11:09	achim	here's the last tree before test reorganization: http://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib/tree/3073f0dc0614cb8c95f2debd0b7e6a75c1736ece
11:11	jackdempsey	oh
11:11	jackdempsey	hehe
11:11	jackdempsey	yeah i'm going in circles
11:11	jackdempsey	downloaded both sources, built clojure then clojure-contrib specifying the location of the clojure.jar
11:11	jackdempsey	load them up in classpath, startup the repl, and its still not finding show
11:11	jackdempsey	will check out that tree, thanks achim
11:13	Chouser	jackdempsey: are you getting an error when you run that 'use' line?
11:13	jackdempsey	yeah, its not finding it, so something simple but bad is happening :-)
11:13	jackdempsey	java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib/repl_utils__init.class or clojure/contrib/repl_utils.clj on classpath: (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
11:14	jackdempsey	let me start fresh one more time, and will paste my commands.....still new to ant and very possible i've completely missed something basic here, but i did have this working at one point. brb
11:15	Chouser	if you're not getting errors when you build, that's probably not the issue.
11:15	jackdempsey	hmm, yeah the builds seem ok
11:15	jackdempsey	slim isn't necssary right?
11:16	jackdempsey	thats only if you don't want the compiled clojure code
11:16	Chouser	then it's more likely your classpath when you start java
11:17	achim	jackdempsey: how do you start the REPL?
11:17	jackdempsey	pasting
11:18	Knekk	any idea about this error while compiling the contrib jar?
11:18	Knekk	[java] java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/walk__init.class or clojure/walk.clj on classpath: (dataflow.clj:17)
11:19	jackdempsey	achim: http://gist.github.com/139520
11:19	achim	Knekk: compiling with clojure 1.0?
11:19	jackdempsey	i'm wondering if the clojure.lang.Repl is old huh
11:19	Knekk	compiling against clojure from May04, using -Dclojure.jar
11:19	Knekk	achim: yes, from here http://code.google.com/p/clojure/downloads/list
11:19	Knekk	on OSX
11:19	achim	Knekk: the current contrib doesn't work with 1.0 anymore :-(
11:20	Knekk	achim: I got http://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib/tree/3073f0dc0614cb8c95f2debd0b7e6a75c1736ece
11:20	Knekk	achim: isn't that the last working version to 1.0?
11:20	jackdempsey	some tags would be helpful
11:21	achim	i thought it was ...
11:21	Knekk	a nice bundled release with contrib would be nice too :)
11:22	jackdempsey	yep, so much to do, so little time :-)
11:22	achim	jackdempsey: does it work if you just call "java -cp path/to/clojure.jar:path/to/clojure-contrib.jar clojure.main" ?
11:23	jackdempsey	thats a negative ghostrider
11:23	jackdempsey	Clojure 1.1.0-alpha-SNAPSHOT
11:23	jackdempsey	user=> (show [1 2 3])
11:23	jackdempsey	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: show in this context (NO_SOURCE_FILE:1)
11:23	jackdempsey	hmm
11:24	jackdempsey	(use '[clojure.contrib.repl-utils :only [show javadoc source]]) returns a nil tho
11:24	Chouser	that's good!
11:24	jackdempsey	ah
11:24	jackdempsey	yep
11:24	jackdempsey	and now show works
11:24	jackdempsey	so, hm, excuse me but wtf :-D a bit confused
11:24	jackdempsey	so its just not loading repl-utils at the start?
11:25	jackdempsey	i guess that would make sense, huh
11:25	jackdempsey	man, that is so useful btw
11:29	jackdempsey	k, so i was putting clojure-contrib in the path, but not actually loading it......now its loading, so i can just type the use line and things are good
11:29	jackdempsey	but, i'm guessing you all don't type out that use everytime you want to use show....so where should things like that go to load it up for you automaticaly?
11:31	lisppaste8	Chouser pasted "my current clj launch script" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82905
11:31	Chouser	wait, are you on linux?
11:32	jackdempsey	nope os x
11:32	Chouser	ah, well ... not sure how well that will do then.
11:33	jackdempsey	ok well, its a similar beast though
11:33	jackdempsey	i think my load script is ok for now
11:33	jackdempsey	unless
11:33	jackdempsey	does this loadup the repl-utils for you
11:33	Chouser	anyway, I have a $HOME/.clojure directory where I put a repl-init.clj where I set print-level and (use repl-utils) etc.
11:33	jackdempsey	ahh
11:33	jackdempsey	i see
11:33	Knekk	where do I get a contrib version that will compile against 1.0?
11:33	jackdempsey	any chance you can pastie that?
11:34	jackdempsey	Knekk: did you try that http://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib/tree/3073f0dc0614cb8c95f2debd0b7e6a75c1736ece
11:34	Chouser	that part is just the -i repl-init.clj part, followed by optional -e or -i's
11:34	jackdempsey	i believe i have that working against edge of clojure
11:34	Chouser	er, -r's
11:34	jackdempsey	yeah, didn't realize thats where you set those things up
11:34	jackdempsey	i think thats all i need now
11:35	kotarak	Knekk: everything before the walk, template, test-is move should work against 1.0
11:36	achim	re: rlwrap: is there a way to have multiline history?
11:36	achim	i'd ditch emacs right away
11:37	Chouser	achim: I dunno -- I use a keyboard shortcut to merge pastes into a single line before dropping them into rlwrap
11:37	achim	Chouser: that's clever!
11:38	Knekk	Thanks, 3073f0dc0614cb8c95f2debd0b7e6a75c1736ece compiles
11:38	jackdempsey	cool
11:39	Knekk	now vimclojure compiles as well. Awesome
11:39	Chouser	achim: it actually does a bunch of other stuff too: http://agriffis.n01se.net/skel.hg/index.cgi/file/d59d4656cbec/bin/eatpaste
11:39	kotarak	Knekk: VC is in sync with 1.0 at the moment. Have to incorporate the latest changes in HEAD in the bleeding-edge branch, eg. the stacktrace move.
11:40	Knekk	kotarak: do updates get announced in here?
11:41	jackdempsey	Chouser: nice. out of curiousity, would you mind pasting your repl-init.clj file?
11:41	kotarak	Knekk: no. Releases are announced via the group and twitter
11:41	kotarak	Knekk: But commits go unnoticed (unless you follow it on bitbucket)
11:43	Knekk	thanks
11:43	Knekk	back from the office in a few.
11:44	achim	Chouser: that's useful, thanks!
11:54	kotarak	How can I get continuous updates of a JTextField
11:54	kotarak	?
11:54	kotarak	ie. w/o the user hitting enter?
11:59	jackdempsey	Chouser: amazing, your clj script works for me. thx!
11:59	Chouser	jackdempsey: oh, great. you figured out the .clojure/cp-1.0 stuff?
12:00	jackdempsey	yeah i had a couple things to change, but now the use i have in repl-init correctly loads up show and friends
12:00	jackdempsey	are there any other useful things to loadup/set that i may not know of? you mentioned print-level i think?
12:00	achim	ah, rlwrap has some multi-line support: you can specify a line break substitute, like rlwrap -m " #_\| " ...
12:00	Chouser	well, good. I haven't put it up anywhere because it keeps changing and/or break. :-/
12:01	achim	hitting ctrl-^ then lets you edit a multi-line expansion of the current expression
12:01	Chouser	jackdempsey: I'll paste my .repl-init in a minute -- found a bug in 'add-break-thread!'
12:01	jackdempsey	oh ok cool, thx
12:01	Chouser	achim: oh! cool.
12:03	achim	that's good enough for me
12:09	jackdempsey	heh
12:11	lisppaste8	Chouser pasted "repl-init.clj" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82906
12:15	Chouser	(e) is experimental for me... not yet sure if I like it.
12:30	jackdempsey	ok cool, thanks man
12:31	stuartsierra	Chouser: yes, it's experimental. :)
12:33	Chouser	stuartsierra: fwiw, it seems to me that most of the times I find it insufficient it's because I need more than the one cause that's printed.
12:34	Chouser	I've been wondering lately if it would help to print the whole trace in order rather than having each cause in the reverse order of the frames
12:34	Chouser	that ordering caused me confusion for a long time at the beginning, and still slows me down at times now.
12:39	stuartsierra	So the "root" cause should come first?
12:53	dysinger_	http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/t/55e55941bd05c5b5 :)
12:55	jackdempsey	hehe, nice
12:55	jackdempsey	nice stuart
12:56	jackdempsey	Chouser: thx again for the help, i tried to document all of it so others don't have to bug you the same way :-) http://jackndempsey.blogspot.com/2009/07/opening-your-mind-with-clojure.html
12:56	Knekk	so the recommended approach to multidimensional arrays of mutable data in Clojure is to instantiate as Java arrays?
12:58	texodus	Anyone in here know their licensing well enough to answer a few simple questions?
12:59	drewr	texodus:
12:59	drewr	Just ask; it'll start the conversation.
12:59	texodus	fair enough
12:59	texodus	clojure is epl
12:59	texodus	does that mean I can't distribute if my clojure project relies on gpl libs?
13:00	drewr	Perhaps, but that wouldn't be a restriction of Clojure's license.
13:01	drewr	You can bundle Clojure programs without dependencies and tell people to go get them if that's a problem.
13:01	texodus	true, but that's a pain for none-technical users
13:02	drewr	What non-technical user cares about Clojure? :-)
13:02	drewr	I would think programming in Lisp on the JVM automatically elevates you to technical status. At least that's why I'm here.
13:03	stuartsierra	texodus: you can distribute Clojure however you want.
13:04	drewr	texodus: Are you referring to the compatibility section of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse_Public_License?
13:04	drewr	That does make it sound ominous.
13:06	stuartsierra	License terms don't matter until somebody sues you. If you're worried, distribute your app in two packages -- one for each license.
13:08	technomancy	stuartsierra: spoken like someone who works with lawyers. =)
13:10	stuartsierra	technomancy: yes.
13:20	Chouser	jackdempsey: thanks!
13:20	jackdempsey	no, ty! :-)
13:20	Chouser	jackdempsey: so you'll be handling support requests related to the clj script. ;-)
13:20	jackdempsey	hehe, yep, i'll be happy to help where i can :-D
13:21	technomancy	what's this about a clj script?
13:25	Chouser	technomancy: http://jackndempsey.blogspot.com/2009/07/opening-your-mind-with-clojure.html
13:27	technomancy	what's the rationale for not having a shell script in clojure itself? just that nobody has gotten around to it?
13:27	technomancy	or to get people comfortable with the fact that they need editor integration? =)
13:28	Chouser	not sure. I suppose there's some question as to what exactly such a script ought to do.
13:28	Chouser	there were several such scripts shared in a g.group thread a while ago, and I was surprised by the variety of functionality they provided.
13:28	Chouser	not to mention the various platforms
13:31	technomancy	I guess the OS-specific ext_dirs etc are tricky.
13:36	Lau_of_DK	Good evening gents
13:37	technomancy	wow, I stick my head out on the mailing list, and I get a flood of patches.
13:37	technomancy	that's awesome.
13:40	Lau_of_DK	patches for...?
13:41	Chousuke	ll
13:42	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: for clojure-mode and swank
13:42	Lau_of_DK	Ok - I had some NASTY trouble with Slime the other day - Will you consider taking that on ?
13:43	jackdempsey	hehe
13:43	technomancy	no, today I only accept patches
13:43	technomancy	nah; just ask. =)
13:44	Lau_of_DK	:(
14:01	texodus	ah, two licenses, that does sound like a good idea
14:01	texodus	I dont anticipate being sued, but potentially harassed
14:02	texodus	and I'd like to distribute in a binary form so people without programming experience can use it
14:02	texodus	'binary'
14:02	texodus	thanks for the advice, all
15:03	Chouser	pop quiz, Q1: what does (assoc [] 0 1) return?
15:03	Chouser	pop quiz, Q2: what does (assoc nil 0 1) return?
15:12	dysinger	I'd rather make my own special purpose shell scripts than have "standard" one - it's just java
15:12	dysinger	but - for example - the macports version of clojure comes with bin/clj
15:13	dysinger	(referring to 10:30am conversation)
15:15	kotarak	Chouser: ad 1: hmm... throws? ad 2: nil? geez, where do you get these questions from?
15:16	kotarak	ok
15:16	Chouser	kotarak: :-)
15:17	Chouser	kotarak: thanks for playing, we have a nice parting gift for you.
15:17	kencausey	So those answers were corect?
15:17	kotarak	The "Trostpreis"
15:17	kotarak	no
15:17	drewr	[1] & {0 1} respectively
15:17	drewr	Interesting.
15:17	kencausey	oh, I guess 'parting' should imply that
15:18	kotarak	A nice flower. :)
15:19	kotarak	The first is not so far fetched, but somehow ugly (special case). I don't like the second.
15:20	Chouser	right, so you're allowed to assoc into a vector at any existing index or at one index past the end which acts like conj
15:20	unlink	What's the best way to say (zero? (truncating-division n k))
15:21	kotarak	I would probably avoid both cases, although the first might have some nice applications. (less special treatment)
15:22	Chouser	(assoc nil 0 1) is perhaps like the corollary to (conj nil 1)
15:22	kotarak	hmm...
15:22	kotarak	I don't like either....
15:22	Chouser	in each case 'nil' is a bit too vague, so Clojure could either throw something or pick a "reasonable" meaning for nil
15:24	kotarak	I think there is a difference between eg. nil and {}. So (assoc nil some thing) and (assoc {} some thing) means also something different to me.
15:50	slurms	hello
15:50	Chouser	hi
15:51	Chouser	kotarak: do you'd prefer an exception over the current default behavior? or you have something else in mind?
15:52	kotarak	I would probably prefer an exception. How can assoc or conj decide, what to do on nil? assoc and conj don't act on sequences, but on collections. I think passing nil is an error.
15:52	unlink	Is there a way I can do this with reduce? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/126386/
15:54	Chouser	unlink: whew, an easy one: yes you can.
15:54	unlink	yeah
15:54	unlink	I just noticed
15:55	unlink	although the condescending attitude is not appreciated
15:55	Chouser	oh. well, "how" may not be so easy to answer. :-)
15:55	Chouser	unlink: I'm sorry, I mean it to be funny, no condescending. I'll stop talking now.
15:55	unlink	oh, my apologies
15:57	Chouser	unlink: I certainly did not mean to suggest the conversion to reduce would be easy. I'd be happy to help if you need any.
15:59	unlink	thanks
16:08	dysinger	So everybody in here has full time clojure work ? :)
16:08	Chouser	hm, I appear to be headed toward (last ... (iterate ...)) rather than reduce
16:09	unlink	Chouser: or just (/ log(n) log(1024))
16:09	technomancy	dysinger: /me raises his hand
16:09	Chouser	unlink: heh. oh. :-)
16:10	dysinger	technomancy: also raising hand
16:10	kotarak	not full time, but I snuck some Clojure, hehe.
16:10	Chouser	I've checked in a little bit of clojure at my full time job...
16:10	kotarak	snuck in some Clojure, I meant..
16:10	Chouser	:-)
16:10	kotarak	:)
16:11	kotarak	pure self-defense against corporate IT
16:11	Chouser	and then hosted a 3-hour con call walking my team though it.
16:11	unlink	:(
16:11	unlink	well good for clojure
16:11	unlink	bad for business
16:11	Chouser	unlink: so you have a solution you like, or you want me to keep poking at it.
16:12	unlink	you can if you like
16:12	unlink	I'm actually just doing it for fun anyway, my final solution will be in python
16:12	unlink	I can't afford to give that 3 hour conference call.
16:12	Chouser	usually 3 hours of training is much more expensive.
16:13	kotarak	luckily my boss looks in the other direction... "As long as the job gets done..."
16:13	kotarak	Waiting for corporate IT means doing steps backwards. :(
16:14	unlink	What's the right way to go from java.lang.Double -> java.lang.Integer?
16:14	unlink	specifically, the ceiling of the double
16:16	Chouser	probably (int (Math/ceil x))
16:16	unlink	Isn't that unchecked?
16:17	Chouser	(int (Math/ceil 1e100)) ==> 2147483647 so I think you're safe
16:17	Chouser	unless you want an exception, I suppose.
16:18	unlink	I want a BigInteger
16:18	unlink	(am I asking for too much?)
16:20	Chouser	I don't know Java math very well. I don't see any BigInteger methods that take Doubles
16:20	Chouser	or any Double methods that return BigIntegers
16:21	Chouser	I imagine you could route it through a String, but that smells bad.
16:25	Chouser	(.toBigIntegerExact (BigDecimal. (Math/ceil 1e23))) ==> 99999999999999991611392
16:25	Chouser	:-/
16:25	Chouser	but I guess that's the Double's fault
16:26	unlink	lawl
16:55	jkantz	,(if (Boolean. "false") 1 2)
16:56	jkantz	no clojurebot?
16:57	kotarak	on vacation
16:57	jkantz	is the above really supposed to return 2?
16:57	jkantz	that's what clj 1.0 is doing
16:57	unlink	supposed to? I don't know. I do know what it does.
16:58	jkantz	gah, I mean it returns 1
16:58	jkantz	in clojure 1.0
16:58	kotarak	(Boolean. "true") returns true, (Boolean. "something else") false => hence the above is correct.
16:58	kotarak	Oh. 1 is wrong, no?
16:59	unlink	*some other string
16:59	jkantz	yeah, it seems there is only one false value
16:59	unlink	Not surprisingly, (Boolean. true) returns true
16:59	jkantz	(false? (Boolean. "False"))
16:59	jkantz	=> false
16:59	technomancy	triple negative?
17:00	jkantz	(true? (Boolean. "true") => false
17:00	unlink	hold your horses
17:00	unlink	new Boolean is almost always the wrong thing to use
17:00	unlink	user=> (false? (Boolean/valueOf "false"))
17:00	unlink	true
17:02	unlink	rtfm
17:03	unlink	Note: It is rarely appropriate to use this constructor. Unless a new instance is required, the static factory valueOf(boolean) is generally a better choice. It is likely to yield significantly better space and time performance.
17:03	unlink	i.e. it will return one of the interned values true and false
17:04	unlink	like, the same ones that the java compiler emits when it sees the literals "true" and "false"
17:05	jkantz	ok. yeah, reading through docs. but it what situation is the new constructor used? why is it even there?
17:05	unlink	If you need a new Boolean instance.
17:05	unlink	I can't think of any reason other than completeness' sake. I've never used it.
17:11	slurms	I have some example java code that looks something like new StyledText( shell, SWT/V_SCROLL \| SWT/H_SCROLL) My problem is, I don't even know what that pipe is doing there. In the SWT docs I have some constructors have two or three of those. How do I emulate that in Clojure?
17:12	grrrt	that's a bitwise or I think
17:13	slurms	(new StyledText shell SWT/V_SCROLL) will work, when you only use one. BUt I'm looking to use two scroll bars here.
17:13	kotarak	(bit-or SWT/V_SCROLL SWT/H_SCROLL) or something like that, or simply (+ SWT/V_SCROLL SWT/H_SCROLL), not tested, though.
17:13	slurms	hmm
17:13	grrrt	I've used + which works with SWT
17:13	kotarak	bitwise or is in this case equivalent to +, I think
17:14	grrrt	but bit-or is closer (well identical) to the \| operator
17:14	slurms	oh, cause SWT/H_SCROLL is returning a number value (binary) ?
17:14	grrrt	yes
17:14	slurms	ah, ok
17:14	kotarak	For Boolean. issue: I think similar considerations apply to Integer. ...
17:15	slurms	hah.. worked
17:15	slurms	thank you so much.
17:16	slurms	FOO/MY_BAR can return whatever though right? I have to look up the docs or introspect to find out, right?
17:17	ozzilee	kotarak: I've got another issue with ClojureQL. Every query I attempt says "java.sql.SQLException: Operation not allowed after ResultSet closed".
17:17	kotarak	slurms: To be on save side, yes. Whenever the docs say FOO \| BAR, it's numbers, which should work with +.
17:17	slurms	great. Thanks :)
17:18	ozzilee	The user I'm using has only SELECT privileges on the db, but that should be enough for (raw "SELECT * FROM foo"), yes?
17:18	kotarak	ozzilee, you have to realise the resultsetset-seq with doall before leaving the run form.
17:18	kotarak	Yes. should work. I think laziness gets in the way here.
17:19	grrrt	kotarak, slurms: there is a small gotcha with using + though
17:19	kotarak	Try: (run conn-info (doall (query * foo)))
17:19	grrrt	binary 00000111 \| 00000001 = 00000111
17:19	grrrt	but 00000111 + 00000001 = 00001000
17:19	kotarak	ozzilee: or (with-connection [conn conn-info] (doall (execute-sql (query * foo) conn)))
17:20	kotarak	grrrt: this will not happen for such constants.
17:20	grrrt	true, because they're all 2, 4, 8 etc etc
17:20	kotarak	grrrt: such constants have the form 00001 \| 00010 ....
17:20	kotarak	grrrt: that's why I said: "in this case"
17:24	ozzilee	(run conn-info (doall (query * foo))) gives me the same error. with-connection works.
17:25	ozzilee	kotarak: The first thing I posted was directly from Lao's post on the group, so either the post is wrong or something got broken.
17:25	kotarak	-.- run needs an overhaul...
17:26	kotarak	ozzilee: you mean the compile error?
17:27	kotarak	Or the raw?
17:28	ozzilee	kotarak: The raw. Lao's post doesn't use raw, but query has the same effect.
17:29	kotarak	ozzilee: you can try the same doall with with-connection and the raw. Or (run [conn-info results] (raw "SELECT * FROM foo") (doall results)).
17:29	kotarak	Lau BTW, not Lao ;)
17:33	ozzilee	kotarak: Ah, ok. That works. Thanks. Not sure where I got Lao from either...
17:34	kotarak	ozzilee: beware changes in JOIN and run syntax... But the possibilities are interesting.
17:37	ozzilee	kotarak: Indeed, it looks like it's going to be pretty powerful.
17:38	kotarak	ozzilee: although, it's probably not an option if you need to go for the last tweak... It provides some abstraction. That comes with a cost. But FULL JOIN with Derby (which doesn't support it) is nice! :)
17:43	ozzilee	kotarak: I imagine I'm going to try pushing it pretty hard, so I'll let you know what I hit my head against :-)
17:44	kotarak	ozzilee: hehe, maybe the list were you didn't cut your fingers is shorter. ;) But that's good. I'd like to see some (more or less) real world examples, which we can test.
17:44	kotarak	The code is not very well tested at the moment.
17:45	ozzilee	cut my fingers?
17:45	kotarak	hit your head against something, loads of rough edges.
17:47	ozzilee	kotarak: Ah, okay, gotcha :-) Yeah, I suppose we'll find out.
17:47	ozzilee	Is there a NOT NULL predicate?
17:48	kotarak	geez... NOT is missing.... Does foo <> NULL also work? (I'm not a SQL guru...)
17:50	ozzilee	kotarak: No, foo <> NULL doesn't work (on mysql, anyway).
17:50	kotarak	Ok. Will look into NOT.
17:51	ozzilee	"foo = NULL" doesn't work either. Needs to be "foo IS NULL".
17:53	ozzilee	Hahahaha. It is a bit... different.
17:53	technomancy	I think the word you're looking for is horrible
17:55	ozzilee	Nah, it's not so bad. It gets a bit difficult once you get up to a certain amount of complexity, but most things do.
17:56	ozzilee	I mostly run into problems with the implementations, as opposed to the language. Performance, mostly.
18:01	kotarak	I hate the manyfold differences in syntax of the different implementations. I'm not sure on which basis they claim to something called "SQL"...
18:01	ozzilee	Well, I've got a query working at least. Time to head out for the day, thanks for the help kotarak.
18:01	kotarak	ozzilee: np
18:01	kotarak	be sure to file bug reports on github, thanks
18:01	ozzilee	kotarak: Will do.
18:02	ozzilee	btw, have you check out SQLAlchemy (Python)? It has some of the same ideas, namely the queries as higher-order functions.
18:02	ozzilee	*checked
18:02	kotarak	ozzilee: no, but will do.
18:03	ozzilee	kotarak: Cool. Later.
18:04	kotarak	cu
19:44	Anniepoo	I just got bit by trying to assemble a Swing GUI using map to go through the form. The map, of course, didn't actually execute because it's lazy. Is there a non lazy version of map?
19:49	emacsen	Is there a simple way to turn a vector of chars into a string?
19:50	texodus	(apply str [\a \b \c])
19:50	emacsen	texodus, wow... that was easy :)
19:50	texodus	,(apply str [\a \b \c])
19:51	texodus	hrm, not good with clojurebot apparently
19:51	emacsen	works for me tho
19:53	cp2	clojurebot is mia
20:04	texodus	poor guy - I hope he's ok :)
20:06	Anniepoo	anybody in the bay area, the Clojure meetup starts at 5:45 at Runa
20:13	emacsen	Okay, one more dumb question. remove is great, but is there a way to do remove only on the first match?
20:13	emacsen	so you don't remove all the instances of the match, just the first
20:22	texodus	not aware of one
20:23	texodus	(defn remove-first [col i] (if (= (first col) i) (rest col) (cons (first col) (remove-first (rest col) i))))
20:24	texodus	though there's prolly a better way
20:26	emacsen	yeah... what we need is a filter-first
20:26	emacsen	but thanks
20:26	emacsen	(I just read how remove works, it uses filter)
20:33	Knekk_	What are the normal uses for (constantly x) ?
20:36	Knekk_	It always returns the first-ever value it was invoked with?
20:36	Knekk_	user=> (def f (constantly x))
20:36	Knekk_	#'user/f
20:36	Knekk_	user=> (f 1 2 34 5 6)
20:36	Knekk_	1
20:36	Knekk_	user=> (f 2 )
20:36	Knekk_	1
20:37	Knekk_	oh I did (def x 1)
20:38	Knekk_	ok, I get it
21:27	texodus	emacsen. if you look at the code for take-while, it works the same way, so I guess that is pretyt much the best way to do it
21:31	emacsen	texodus, thanks
22:02	Chouser	has anyone compiled contrib's clojure-1.0-compatible branch? It's just completely failing for me
22:02	Chouser	java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: clojure.lang.Namespace.importClass(Ljava/lang/Class;)Ljava/lang/Class;
22:04	jackdempsey	hmm
22:04	jackdempsey	seems to work for me
22:05	jackdempsey	git checkout origin/clojure-1.0-compatible
22:05	jackdempsey	ant -Dclojure.jar=../clojure/clojure.jar
22:05	jackdempsey	compiles fine
22:05	jackdempsey	(and the clojure dir is up to date)
22:05	duck1123	does rich have the 1.0 branch, or is it somewhere else
22:05	duck1123	I just fetched and i'm not seeing it
22:06	jackdempsey	not as a remote?
22:06	jackdempsey	jack@localhost ~/git/clojure-contrib comp $ gb -a
22:06	jackdempsey	...
22:06	jackdempsey	remotes/origin/clojure-1.0-compatible
22:06	jackdempsey	and thats from rich
22:06	jackdempsey	( finally something i have half a clue about...)
22:08	Chouser	jackdempsey: hmph, I think that's exactly what I'm doing.
22:08	jackdempsey	hmmm
22:09	duck1123	Chouser: did you clean?
22:14	Chouser	ah, my 1.0 branch wasn't up to date.
22:26	Chouser	oh, nope, still fails :-P
22:33	Chouser	ok, git's just toying with me. I've got it now
23:04	gstamp	I saw this on a blog... (def fibs (lazy-cat [0 1] (map + fibs (rest fibs)))) ... and i'm not sure how it works. How can fibs refer to itself in that way?
23:05	Chouser	gstamp: sorry, I've got a reply started, but not done yet
23:07	Chouser	maybe the best way to understand how it works is to realize that a lazy seq mutates internally
23:07	gstamp	lol. was that you're blog? I guess I can wait :-)
23:07	Chouser	:-)
23:08	Chouser	each step of a lazy seq starts as a closure that knows how to compute a cons cell (first and rest)
23:09	Chouser	when you ask for either, that closure is called
23:10	Chouser	but then the closure is thrown away and its return value is cached instead
23:14	Chouser	so as long as you refer only to parts of the seq that have realized, nothing has to recurse at that point.
23:16	Chouser	and that's what happens with 'fibs' -- each element is computed only from earlier elements -- all the way back to the [0 1] constants.
23:16	Chouser	oh
23:16	Chouser	gone
23:16	Chouser	:-P
23:17	liebke	add-break-thread works again, woot!!! :)
23:18	Chouser	liebke: nobody told me it was broken!
23:18	Chouser	though I apparently I didn't notice either. :-P
23:18	liebke	my bad, I should have told you :)
23:18	liebke	I missed it
23:21	menSan	nn all
23:31	gstamp	Blasted http://webchat.freenode.net/ hung on me.
23:31	Chouser	gstamp: http://blog.n01se.net/?p=33#comment-1230
23:32	Chouser	gstamp: does that make any sense?
23:32	gstamp	Thank you for that. I think I understand
23:33	gstamp	I'll just keep looking at it for another hour to make sure. It's a beautiful piece of code.
23:34	Chouser	it is, though it does not perform very well
23:36	gstamp	Hopefully future versions of clojure can optimize that inconvience truth away.
23:37	unlink	speaking of optimizations, #^Object should be implicit for all parameters w/o type annotations
23:38	Chouser	unlink: would that help something?
23:39	unlink	.toString & friends by default use reflection
23:39	unlink	e.g. (fn [x] (.toString x))
23:41	unlink	getClass, hashCode too
23:46	Chouser	unlink: hm!
23:48	unlink	It's not often a function gets passed a non-Object in clojure ;)