#clojure – 2009-06-14

2009-06-14

09:07	baw_heid	/join #clojure
09:12	baw_heid	topic
09:17	duck1123	When a repl is started (via 'clojure.main') is it just using the standard input an outputs?
09:19	duck1123	I'm trying to modify clojure-maven-plugin to create a repl for my project. When it runs, I see 'Clojure 1.0.0--SNAPSHOT' but no prompt
12:04	Chouser	rhickey: I
12:04	Chouser	rhickey: I sent you a push request. my first ever! :-)
12:11	Chousuke	Chouser: you mean a pull request? :/
12:19	Chouser	bah
12:19	Chouser	see?
12:19	Chouser	yes, pull request.
12:43	jtal	can someone tell me whats wrong with this function? http://kivasti.com/prime.html
12:43	jtal	I think it must be something simple
12:44	hiredman	jtal: what kind of exception do you get?
12:44	jtal	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Boolean (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
12:44	hiredman	actually
12:44	seths	I'm looking at the implementation of (distinct) and don't understand the usage of :as
12:44	hiredman	to start off, you have too man parens
12:44	hiredman	many
12:45	jtal	around the if's ?
12:45	seths	(excerpt) (fn [[f :as xs] seen]
12:45	hiredman	~destructuring
12:45	seths	I understand it's an anonymous function with two arguments
12:45	clojurebot	destructuring is http://clojure.org/special_forms#let
12:45	hiredman	seths: check out that url
12:46	seths	ok, thx
12:46	hiredman	jtal: the body of the function does not need to be inside a set of parens
12:46	hiredman	you have something like (defn foo [x] (code here))
12:46	hiredman	should be (defn foo [x] code here)
12:47	jtal	ok, are there others I dont need?
12:47	hiredman	what is happening is the code is returning a boolean, then because of those extra parens the boolean is being called as a function
12:47	hiredman	which it isn't
12:47	jtal	ahh
12:48	hiredman	hard to say, your style is a little off which makes it hard to read
12:48	jtal	same error, I must have more extras
12:49	hiredman	http://paste.lisp.org/display/81021
12:49	jtal	is that really easier for you to read? :>
12:50	jtal	I cant ever match up the closing parens that way
12:50	hiredman	get a better editor then
12:50	jtal	well, I can do it when the cursor is over them
12:50	jtal	(also, there is nothing better than vim) :>
12:51	hiredman	jtal: I doubt it is the same exception
12:51	jtal	oh, sorry
12:51	jtal	idiot...I'm editing the version I'm showing you not the one I'm loading
12:52	hiredman	you do have another extra set of parens, but not around anything that returns a boolean
12:53	jtal	hooray
12:54	jtal	thanks
12:54	hiredman	sure
13:40	seths	I am struggling to understand how to appropriately use immutable data structures
13:41	seths	I keep wanting to do something like this:
13:41	seths	(def hm (hash-map))
13:41	seths	(def hm (assoc hm 'foo 42))
13:41	seths	I'm pretty sure that's missing the point
13:42	seths	I'm using (map) to build a hash-map, but subsequent calls into my code can't see return values from prior calls
13:44	seths	I looked at (distinct), but that doesn't do quite what I want
13:53	Chouser	seths: that pattern isn't completely wrong -- doing it with 'def' is a bit suspect, but I assume that's a made up example anyway.
13:54	Chouser	but the general idea of taking the old container, assoc'ing onto it, and replacing the old reference with the new one is exactly right for a lot of circumstances.
14:10	seths	great, thanks Cho
14:11	jackdempsey	hey pjb3 yt?
14:12	jackdempsey	was hoping to continue discussion re: clojure from #rubynation
14:12	jackdempsey	anyone else of course is welcome.....i was asking Paul my standard question anytime i look at a new tech
14:13	jackdempsey	what problem/task best lets Clojure shine
14:13	jackdempsey	and whats something you really wouldn't want to do with clojure :-)
14:13	jackdempsey	(when people say concurrency i think a lot of the time people imagine something closer to erlang when thats not really the case)
14:14	itistoday	jackdempsey: i think clojure is good for server-side coding
14:14	itistoday	jackdempsey: and not so great for making GUIs yet
14:14	jackdempsey	k
14:14	itistoday	but that's not really the fault of clojure
14:14	itistoday	more of a problem java's always had
14:14	jackdempsey	so if you had something like, a web framework, with potentially thousands of requests coming at your code per second
14:15	jackdempsey	its well suited to handle that sort of thing (it seems?)
14:15	itistoday	i would think so
14:15	itistoday	plenty of java stuff that does that
14:15	jackdempsey	i mean i guess a good part of that is actually the jvm at that point
14:15	jackdempsey	yeah
14:16	itistoday	i think clojure may also be good for running simulations, especially where concurrency is required
14:16	itistoday	really, any sub-system type stuff
14:17	itistoday	for example, I used to work on autonomous cars, and they had a communications system written in java
14:17	itistoday	that would be used for the various nodes to communicate with each other
14:17	jackdempsey	k gotcha
14:18	itistoday	gotta go
14:18	jackdempsey	cool, thx!
14:26	hoeck	jackdempsey: the list of things I would not use clojure for are more or less restricted by the runtime (jvm)
14:26	jackdempsey	gotcha
14:26	hoeck	jackdempsey: stuff like window-managers, devicedrivers
14:26	jackdempsey	yea
14:30	seths	Chouser: I still can't get my head out of the mutable context world. I really want to update the value of a hashmap while (map) is running
14:30	seths	(let [hm (hash-map)] (map (fn [k v] (assoc hm k v)) ["a" "b" "a"] [1 2 3]))
14:30	seths	({"a" 1} {"b" 2} {"a" 3})
14:31	seths	I think i get why, but not how to get past that
14:31	seths	(I don't need zipmap, but this would be better than the code above right? (zipmap ["a" "b" "a"] [1 2 3])
15:03	pjb3	jackdempsey: hey
15:03	jackdempsey	hey man
15:03	jackdempsey	watching clojure.blip.tv........rich really does a great job with his talks
15:04	jackdempsey	makes me want to go learn clojure every time i watch one :-)
15:04	pjb3	Yeah, me too :)
15:04	jackdempsey	reminds me a bit of git even......smart people love it, seems really powerful, learning curve seems a bit steep at first :-)
15:04	pjb3	We have to write some sort of clojure library and call it cilantro :)
15:04	pjb3	Nah, the learning curve isn't that bad
15:04	jackdempsey	glad he goes into concurrency a bit (and is right), its often spoken about the wrong way
15:05	jackdempsey	yeah? ok cool
15:05	durka42	cilantro?
15:05	jackdempsey	hahah totally
15:05	pjb3	You'll learn to love the parentheses
15:05	jackdempsey	hahah
15:05	pjb3	durka42: inside joke
15:05	jackdempsey	someone must be working on a lib packaging system right?
15:05	pjb3	not sure
15:05	durka42	i think technomancy is working on something
15:05	jackdempsey	cool
15:06	jackdempsey	is there a need for something small/easily approached by a novice, that would benefit the community?
15:06	durka42	yeah, corkscrew
15:06	jackdempsey	k cool
15:06	durka42	jackdempsey: what are you interested in? :)
15:06	jackdempsey	i'm mostly a web programmer
15:06	jackdempsey	do a lot with ruby these days
15:07	jackdempsey	but, i see the writing on the wall, and especially when listening to these talks......i don't want to be out in the cold when we have 64 core machines and need to utilize them
15:07	jackdempsey	that and something i'm working on right now could benefit from a highly efficient concurrent system
15:07	jackdempsey	as far as linguistic analysis
15:07	jackdempsey	i guess i can just leverage whatever java's done
15:08	jackdempsey	which is a big win
15:08	pjb3	yeah, that java integration is pretty nice
15:09	sgtarr	Hi all. I am new to Clojure and installed VimClojure. I am having problems with the REPL taking 100% CPU and freezing Vim.
15:09	jackdempsey	i think i need a "blog in 15 mins" type app to build in clojure
15:09	jackdempsey	yikes
15:09	durka42	sgtarr: when you give it input? or just when it tries to start up?
15:09	durka42	jackdempsey: look at compojure
15:09	jackdempsey	ok
15:09	sgtarr	To reproduce, I start the REPL in vim, while in insert mode I "mistakely" hit CTRl-W-W, so it deletes a line, I do it again, and then I do escape, and press 'i'
15:09	sgtarr	And then it freezes
15:09	pjb3	compojure is like sinatra
15:10	sgtarr	I'm using vim 7.2.79
15:10	jackdempsey	nice, ok
15:10	durka42	sgtarr: OS?
15:10	jackdempsey	any benchmarks on it?
15:10	durka42	i'm on a mac
15:10	sgtarr	durka42: linux (ubuntu 9.04)
15:11	durka42	i can test it there
15:11	sgtarr	durka42: ok, great
15:11	durka42	also, kotarak wrote vimclojure and he is here sometimes
15:11	durka42	he is also using macvim :)
15:12	pjb3	jackdempsey: Check out stu halloway's book, he has a clojure version of ant that he explains in the book
15:12	duck1123	has anyone here managed to launch a clojure repl from within a java program
15:12	sgtarr	durka42: noted :)
15:12	jackdempsey	k cool thx paul
15:12	duck1123	I'm still trying to get a repl from within a maven plugin
15:13	sgtarr	anyone using the eclipse-dev plugin?
15:13	sgtarr	I tried it but it had some odd behavior, such as the cursor going all the way to the beginning of the line on every new line
15:14	duck1123	tried it, was inferior to slime, so i stayed with that
15:14	pjb3	jackdempsey: Have you done a lot of Java programming?
15:14	sgtarr	durka42: Slime runs within Emacs right?
15:14	durka42	yes
15:14	sgtarr	hm I'd rather not run another OS :)
15:14	durka42	hahaha
15:15	jackdempsey	pjb3: nah, been a long time
15:17	sgtarr	,(+ 2 3)
15:17	clojurebot	5
15:17	sgtarr	heh
15:17	sgtarr	,(doc map)
15:17	clojurebot	"([f coll] [f c1 c2] [f c1 c2 c3] [f c1 c2 c3 & colls]); Returns a lazy sequence consisting of the result of applying f to the set of first items of each coll, followed by applying f to the set of second items in each coll, until any one of the colls is exhausted. Any remaining items in other colls are ignored. Function f should accept number-of-colls arguments."
15:18	sgtarr	durka42: did you test inside the virtual machine?
15:21	durka42	sgtarr: i'm waiting for it to upgrade from 8.04 to 9.04
15:22	durka42	so it will be a while
15:24	durka42	sgtarr: also what versions of vimclojure and clojure are you using?
15:27	Chouser	seths: you may want 'reduce'
15:28	sgtarr	durka42: Both latest frmo svn
15:28	sgtarr	from*
15:33	sgtarr	It happens too often to make VimClojure useful before it's fixed :/
15:33	durka42	do you get anything in the console?
15:34	sgtarr	^WW then ESC then 'i' and it freezes
15:34	sgtarr	durka42: you mean the ng server?
15:34	durka42	yeah
15:34	durka42	sgtarr: stop pressing ^WW :)
15:35	sgtarr	durka42: Impossible, it'll definitely happen at some point even if I really tried :)
15:35	sgtarr	It's like avoiding vim going "beep"
15:35	sgtarr	durka42: basically, I need to change between REPL and the source a lot :/
15:36	sgtarr	hi kotarak, we were just talking about VimClojure
15:36	kotarak	Hi. Only good things, I hope. :)
15:36	sgtarr	I am experiencing a crash upon ^WW in the REPL, do you have a sec? :)
15:36	durka42	and i was failing to help :)
15:36	durka42	kotarak: unfortunately not :p
15:36	kotarak	Erm. But only a sec. I might have to drop out suddenly.
15:37	sgtarr	To reproduce: 1) I go to REPL, and while in insert mode, I hit ^WW, the lines then are removed and I am reminded that it is still in insert mode. 2) I hit ESC, and then 'i' again. 3) VIM freezes
15:37	sgtarr	Clojure from svn, VimClojure from svn tonight
15:37	sgtarr	(I'm running Vim 7.2.79 on Ubuntu 9.04)
15:37	durka42	do you mean vimclojure from hg? or are you downloading an obsolete version from somewhere
15:37	kotarak	Ok. Just a sec.
15:38	kotarak	VC was never in SVN, only HG.
15:38	sgtarr	actually, I am not using from svn, sorry. It's the latest one from vim.org scripts
15:39	sgtarr	Only the clojure / clojure-contrib are from svn, on my system.
15:39	durka42	you could try latest VC from bitbucket
15:39	kotarak	Hmmm... No freeze here.
15:39	sgtarr	kotarak: do you clear the lines all the way to the top using ^WW ?
15:40	sgtarr	kotarak: it doesn't always happen here, but about 75% of the time
15:40	kotarak	Ok. Let me see.
15:41	kotarak	No. Works all the time.
15:41	kotarak	I'm on 7.2.148.
15:41	sgtarr	kotarak: Oh, it only freezes if you do 'i' followed by enter
15:41	durka42	kotarak: sgtarr is on ubuntu 9.04
15:41	kotarak	That's clear.
15:41	seths	Chouser: very cool
15:41	durka42	because VC is looking for the Clojure=>
15:41	kotarak	It looks for 'Clojure=>'
15:43	durka42	dammit, now i have to kill vim >:o
15:43	sgtarr	kotarak: for some reason, I reproduce it quite quickly again and again when switching between source and the REPL
15:43	sgtarr	kotarak: most of the time "Clojure=>" is actually visible
15:43	kotarak	At the moment it works well, if you treat it right. But it's not very robust.
15:43	kotarak	Hmm..
15:43	kotarak	That should not happen.
15:44	sgtarr	kotarak: Ok, I reproduced it again like this: I ^WW'd only to realize that I was in insert mode, making me do "ESC" instinctively. So to rectify I do 'i' and then enter to make the REPL work again. Freeze.
15:45	kotarak	No. No Enter. Just make undo to fix the prompt.
15:45	kotarak	Without prompt it will freeze.
15:45	sgtarr	I see...
15:45	kotarak	Hitting enter will not produce a new prompt.
15:45	seths	Chouser: I owe you a beer, reduce worked perfectly
15:46	sgtarr	kotarak: It's just my instinct makes me press Enter, and since i am typing very very fast, I sometimes make mistakes, I'm used to the vi "beep" sound.
15:46	sgtarr	kotarak: Say I'm coding in this for an hour, I am 100% sure I'm going to screw it up at least once :)
15:47	kotarak	Vim is not really made to provide a repl-like thing.
15:47	kotarak	This whole buffer wrapper is a big hack!
15:47	kotarak	s/wrapper/repl/
15:47	sgtarr	kotarak: It's extremely useful though... is there a way to use a REPL from the outside? and still be able to eval code from within vim ?
15:47	kotarak	You can start your own Repl.
15:47	durka42	kotarak: it's a very useful hack :)
15:47	kotarak	Start the nailgun-server from there.
15:48	kotarak	And there you go.
15:48	kotarak	You can work in the Repl while using the same process for VC.
15:48	sgtarr	kotarak: Oh I see, so then I just do \ef ?
15:49	kotarak	Yes.
15:49	sgtarr	That's neat
15:49	kotarak	Have to drop out now.
15:49	sgtarr	Did you also code nailgun?
15:49	kotarak	Sorry
15:49	kotarak	no
15:49	sgtarr	Later, thanks
15:49	kotarak	3-party
16:23	jtal	anyone have a good link to debugging clojure code?
16:27	duck1123	http://github.com/GeorgeJahad/cljdb/tree/master
16:27	duck1123	for emacs though, and I haven't gotten it working yet
16:28	jtal	oh I use some java debugger for debugging?
16:30	duck1123	it's all JVM underneath, so java debuggers should work
16:30	jtal	ok, I'll look into jdb
16:41	duck1123	I'm making progress. I'm actually able to see the repl prompt in my mvn goal now. Still not respoonding to input however
16:42	replaca	jtal: Others have reported good success using jswat, though I couldn't get it working in the 5min I tried :). I blamed it on some historical artifact of the way I seem to have java set up on my system.
16:43	jtal	cool ill check it out too
17:14	DTrejo	Can someone tell me why this does not work? http://mibbit.com/pb/SRsipN
17:15	DTrejo	thanks
17:15	durka42	DTrejo: define "does not work"?
17:16	durka42	oh, because lazy-cat does not return a vector
17:16	durka42	you want (nth fibs 10)
17:16	durka42	or convert fibs to a vector first
17:16	DTrejo	oh, so
17:17	DTrejo	how could I convert it?
17:17	DTrejo	*how would I convert it?
17:18	durka42	not sure you can convert it while keeping it lazy
17:18	durka42	but you can always use nth
17:19	DTrejo	I guess I need to look up "nth" I'm just learning clojure now, so I haven't heard of it
17:19	durka42	it's for indexing into collections
17:19	durka42	as in, the nth element
17:19	arohner	,(doc nth)
17:19	clojurebot	"([coll index] [coll index not-found]); Returns the value at the index. get returns nil if index out of bounds, nth throws an exception unless not-found is supplied. nth also works for strings, Java arrays, regex Matchers and Lists, and, in O(n) time, for sequences."
17:20	DTrejo	thanks durka42 and arohner
17:20	arohner	the functions doc and find-doc are your friends
17:20	arohner	oh, source is useful too
17:22	DTrejo	I've been using the clojure eclipse plugin, is that a bad idea to use to learn?
17:23	mrsolo	it wasn't very good when i checked it out few weeks ago
17:23	DTrejo	yeah I don't love it either
17:23	mrsolo	i am using emacs + slime right now
17:23	DTrejo	would you recommend anything?
17:23	DTrejo	oh ok, I do have clojurebox installed
17:23	arohner	if you know emacs, slime is definitely the way to go
17:24	DTrejo	(I don't know emacs)
17:24	mrsolo	there is a plug in for netbean
17:24	mrsolo	i heard that one is better
17:24	mrsolo	compares to eclipse that is
17:24	duck1123	I found the eclipse plugin to be rather limited
17:24	duck1123	but maybe I'm just spoiled by slime
17:25	mrsolo	it is limited missing few features but eclipse/netbean are bunch stronger on java side compares to emacs..so..
17:25	DTrejo	http://clojure.bighugh.com/
17:26	DTrejo	hmm alright
17:26	DTrejo	enclojure is made in close partnership with rich hickey right?
17:26	duck1123	I'm noticing that emacs seems a little slow to respond for me when coding java right now with JDE installed
17:27	duck1123	perhaps it's my disgust with this java code clouding my opinion however
17:28	DTrejo	thanks for the help and advice guys, I'm off
17:59	jackdempsey	sigh
17:59	jackdempsey	and now i remember why i hated java :-)
17:59	jackdempsey	(#$#(@#R classpath...
17:59	jackdempsey	lemme type this out....maybe i'll realize the answer in doing so
17:59	jackdempsey	trying to build vimclojure
18:00	jackdempsey	have everything set
18:00	jackdempsey	rc/vimclojure-2.1.1/build.xml:66: Could not find clojure.lang.Compile. Make sure you have it in your classpath
18:00	hiredman	is clojure in your classpath?
18:01	jackdempsey	yeah so i've done this:
18:01	jackdempsey	CLASSPATH=/Users/jack/Library/Java:/opt/jars/clojure-contrib.jar:/opt/jars/clojure.jar
18:01	jackdempsey	and looking at ant diagnostics
18:01	jackdempsey	they're in there as well
18:01	jackdempsey	and i can load up clojure just fine
18:02	hiredman	did you do the thing with the properties file?
18:02	jackdempsey	yep it has the lines specified
18:02	jackdempsey	clojure.jar = /opt/jars/clojure.jar and others
18:04	jackdempsey	this loads
18:04	jackdempsey	java -cp /opt/jars/clojure.jar clojure.lang.Repl
18:04	jackdempsey	as does java clojure.lang.Repl
18:04	jackdempsey	and given that the latter works, i would have thought the classpath stuff was ok
18:05	jackdempsey	i could easily be doing something boneheaded..havne't run ant in forever
18:06	hiredman	I haven't built vimclojure in a while
18:06	jackdempsey	grabbing the latest java update for leopard....doesn't seem like that would be related to this tho
18:06	jackdempsey	yeah i mean, at this point i almost odn't really care about it
18:06	jackdempsey	just want to figure out whats wrong as i need to get used to this :-)
18:09	hiredman	ant runs fine for me
18:09	hiredman	:/
18:09	jackdempsey	heh
18:10	jackdempsey	i saw something about building clojure-contrib AOT
18:10	hiredman	vimclojure's author is in here fairly regular like
18:10	jackdempsey	cool
18:10	jackdempsey	hmm
18:10	jackdempsey	damn
18:10	jackdempsey	thought clean then a rebuild would do it
18:11	hiredman	~seen kotarak
18:11	clojurebot	kotarak was last seen quiting IRC, 141 minutes ago
18:11	jackdempsey	oh yea saw him before
18:11	hiredman	just missed him
18:11	jackdempsey	i mean doesn't the fact that i can do
18:11	jackdempsey	java clojure.lang.Repl
18:11	jackdempsey	mean clojure.jar is in CLASSPATH
18:11	hiredman	yeah
18:11	jackdempsey	does ant run in some environment where thats not set or something
18:12	hiredman	on a side note it's clojure.main these days
18:12	jackdempsey	yea saw that somewhere
18:12	jackdempsey	interestingly enough
18:12	jackdempsey	that doesn't work
18:12	jackdempsey	maybe my clojure is too old?
18:12	hiredman	Hmmmm
18:12	hiredman	possible, where did you get it?
18:12	jackdempsey	svn a while ago
18:13	hiredman	clojure.main has been around for a while
18:13	jackdempsey	heh maybe its really old then
18:13	hiredman	jackdempsey: I would grap the 1.0 zip
18:14	hiredman	http://code.google.com/p/clojure/downloads/list
18:14	jackdempsey	ah
18:14	jackdempsey	new error now
18:14	jackdempsey	hehe
18:14	jackdempsey	BUILD FAILED
18:14	jackdempsey	java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib/pprint__init.class or clojure/contrib/pprint.clj on classpath:
18:14	jackdempsey	k i've seen that error
18:14	jackdempsey	lemme see
18:14	hiredman	ok
18:14	hiredman	that is an issue with not compiling clojure-contrib
18:15	jackdempsey	yeah so i just tried that the way it was specified somewhere on line
18:15	jackdempsey	ant -Dclojure.jar=../clojure/clojure.jar
18:15	hiredman	the latest vimclojure depends on pprint and pprint depends on AOT
18:15	jackdempsey	and get a nice
18:15	jackdempsey	[java] java.lang.Exception: Name conflict, can't def memoize because namespace: clojure.contrib.memoize refers to:#'clojure.core/memoize (memoize.clj:19)
18:15	jackdempsey	so i'll get that 1.0 zip i think :-)
18:15	hiredman	hmmmm
18:15	jackdempsey	(appreciate the help btw)
18:15	jackdempsey	the clojure.jar i just built was from svn
18:15	jackdempsey	easily could be f'ed
18:17	jackdempsey	k got zip.....different structure than i expected :-)
18:17	hiredman	it's source + jar
18:18	jackdempsey	ah it unzpped to top level
18:18	jackdempsey	heh sigh k brb
18:18	jackdempsey	there we go
18:19	jackdempsey	so i can drop that jar into place
18:19	jackdempsey	and rebuild clojure-contrib?
18:19	hiredman	might be a good idea
18:21	jackdempsey	hmm can't find lazy cons for some reason
18:21	jackdempsey	[java] java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: clojure/lang/LazyCons
18:21	hiredman	well
18:21	hiredman	I think you need a new contrib now
18:21	hiredman	lazy-cons was chopped a few months before 1.0
18:22	hiredman	so if something is looking for it, it is old
18:22	hiredman	~contrib
18:22	clojurebot	contrib is http://code.google.com/p/clojure-contrib/
18:22	hiredman	unfortunately there are no prebuilt releases for contrib
18:22	jackdempsey	k think this worked
18:23	jackdempsey	hmm yea i got contrib earlier today
18:23	hiredman	from where?
18:23	jackdempsey	that url
18:24	jackdempsey	so contrib built
18:24	jackdempsey	back to vimclojure now :-)
18:25	hiredman	in my svn checkout of contrib there is no mention of LazyCons except in clojurescript, but that is all written in javascript so it doesn't compile and you would not see an exception about it
18:26	jackdempsey	oh, you know, i think it wasn't google code
18:26	jackdempsey	as downloads is blank
18:26	jackdempsey	yeah vimclojure still blows up with java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib/pprint__init.class or clojure/contrib/pprint.clj on classpath: (util.clj:23)
18:26	jackdempsey	which means contrib didnt' build correctly either huh
18:26	hiredman	well
18:26	jackdempsey	or it was the old one as you're saying
18:26	hiredman	back when LazyCons existed there was no pprint
18:26	jackdempsey	so build clojure-contrib from source?
18:27	jackdempsey	hmm
18:27	jackdempsey	heheh
18:27	hiredman	yeah
18:28	jackdempsey	yea that source had an svn info of the old repo
18:28	jackdempsey	so clojure-contrib needs that -D flag for the AOT as well as vimclojure right?
18:29	hiredman	yeah, contrib needs to know where clojure is to AOT compile
18:29	jackdempsey	yea seeing that now
18:29	jackdempsey	nice error message
18:29	jackdempsey	k co contrib is good
18:30	jackdempsey	trying vim again
18:30	jackdempsey	shit
18:30	jackdempsey	hehe
18:30	jackdempsey	still that pprint error
18:30	jackdempsey	well
18:30	jackdempsey	lemme just fiddle for a sec, i have much better understanding of this all now
18:30	clojurebot	for is a loop...in Java
18:31	jackdempsey	should be able to get it
18:32	jackdempsey	yeah
18:32	jackdempsey	got it
18:32	jackdempsey	one of those
18:32	jackdempsey	been looking at this forever, forgot to copy contrib to /opt/jars
18:32	jackdempsey	built just fine
18:32	jackdempsey	phew
18:32	hiredman	excellent
18:32	jackdempsey	they need a feature in irc
18:34	jackdempsey	hehehe
18:34	jackdempsey	now that this yak shaving is done
18:34	jackdempsey	i forget what i was trying to do
18:34	jackdempsey	:-d
18:34	jackdempsey	:-D
18:35	jackdempsey	oh yes, compojure
18:35	hiredman	~shave that yak!
18:35	clojurebot	fastest sheers on IRC
18:35	jackdempsey	hehehe
19:03	hiredman	,(doc alter)
19:03	clojurebot	"([ref fun & args]); Must be called in a transaction. Sets the in-transaction-value of ref to: (apply fun in-transaction-value-of-ref args) and returns the in-transaction-value of ref."
19:03	hiredman	,(doc ref-set)
19:03	clojurebot	"([ref val]); Must be called in a transaction. Sets the value of ref. Returns val."
21:30	qrush	hey folks
21:30	qrush	is the official repo at github now?
21:31	qrush	anyone?
21:32	arohner	I don't think it's official because rhickey hasn't announced it
21:32	arohner	but it's probably in-sync with svn
21:33	qrush	I'd love to feature it for github rebase
21:33	qrush	but i'd rather not if it's not official
21:37	qrush	:/
21:51	Chouser	I think it's official
21:52	Chouser	I've not seen an announcement except here, but there's a rev pushed there that's not in googlecode svn (I think)
21:52	qrush	well it's not like it can hurt right? any pr is good pr :)
21:52	arohner	Chouser: how is it official without an announcement? :-)
21:53	Chouser	well, it's got newer rhickey code than svn -- what more do you want?
21:54	arohner	that makes it de-facto
21:54	arohner	:-)
21:54	Chouser	ah, ok.
21:58	blbrown_win2	I have a computer science 101 question; I want to create an object called Lock that can only be "enabled" one time, and the 'get' method only returns if the Lock has been enabled or not, you can't change the state again. It is kind of a readonly object. Is this how Locks are used. I am not using anything threading.
22:00	blbrown_win2	I think I will call it readonlystate
22:32	replaca	blbrown_win2: this isn't a lock (locks are grabbed by a thread, held for a time, and then released)
22:33	replaca	blbrown_win2: and locks have no value associated with them
22:33	qrush	/whois replaca
22:33	qrush	bah
22:33	qrush	sorry :\|
22:34	replaca	blbrown_win2: interestingly, Rich Hickey is in the process of building exactly what you're asking for right now and was asking for name proposals on Friday
22:34	replaca	qrush: a lot of poeple have wanted to know that, but noone has gotten a satisfactory answer :-)
22:34	qrush	haha
22:35	qrush	i'm really just looking for anyone with information on the transition to github ;]
22:36	replaca	blbrown_win2: if it's not carrying an explicit value, what you're talking about is usually called an Event and they can be reset (for example, C# has ManualResetEvent and AutoResetEvent)
22:36	replaca	qrush: I know about as much as anyone besides Rich
22:36	Chouser	qrush: there's not much information to be had, I believe.
22:37	replaca	qrush: (as do Chouser, etc.)
22:37	replaca	qrush: it's in process, but not done yet. Rich is being very methodical
22:37	qrush	:/ well, i don't think it'll hurt to broaden its exposure. I won't say it's 'official'
22:37	replaca	which is a "good thing"
22:38	hiredman	replaca: I think a future is more like what he is asking about then a promise
22:38	replaca	qrush: I would say that it will probably be official within the week, but I don't know that for sure
22:38	qrush	alright :)
22:39	qrush	well, i'm going to do no harm except for bringing more attention to it
22:39	qrush	i don't think that should cause any issues.
22:40	replaca	hiredman: could be, but it sounded a little more random than that. In any case, I don't think he's listening anymore, so I'm probably talking to air. (as often happens...)
22:40	hiredman	yeah
22:40	replaca	qrush: but be careful, it looks like it's happening, but Rich hasn't committed to it and may still change his mind
22:41	qrush	:/
22:41	replaca	qrush: consider it "still under investigation"
22:41	qrush	well i'm not going to call it the 'official' repo
22:41	replaca	but personally I think it will happen
22:41	replaca	qrush: and, if Rich changes his mind, the repo will go away
22:41	qrush	i'm just going to point out what features the languages it has and encourage people to fork
22:42	replaca	qrush: Why fork?
22:42	qrush	...because that's how people contribute on github?
22:42	clojurebot	github is git://github.com/kevinoneill/clojure.git
22:42	replaca	unless you want to create your own version or fix bugs and send patches
22:42	hiredman	forking is fun for consenting adults
22:43	hiredman	clojurebot: forget github
22:43	clojurebot	I forgot github
22:43	qrush	replaca: I'm not talking about creating their own version of the language/project...this is more about watching and contributing :)
22:43	replaca	qrush: yeah, but clojure is really a set of projects. More folks will probably find value in building on top of clojure
22:43	hiredman	~github is <reply>http://github.com/richhickey/clojure/tree/master
22:43	clojurebot	In Ordnung
22:44	replaca	clojure-contrib, compojure, ring, incanter, .... tons of interesting stuff
22:44	hiredman	replaca: someone could fork 1.0 an maintain a bugfix branch
22:44	replaca	that's where I think more of the action will be
22:44	hiredman	you know, cloud source it :P
22:45	replaca	sure, nothing wrong with anyone forking it and there will probably be some useful things happening there (though I'd rather see bug fixes go back into the official 1.0 branch)
22:46	Chouser	I wrote a patch -- previously I would have just attached the patch to a googlecode issue. The github procedure I think is to fork the clojure repo, push a commit to it, and send rhickey a pull request.
22:46	replaca	I just think that there are a lot of ways to contribute
22:46	replaca	Chouser: yes, by all means fork to create patches and fork if you want to do something special with the language itself
22:46	qrush	Chouser: That's one way...
22:47	qrush	rails only accepts patches
22:47	qrush	it's really up to the project maintainers
22:48	Chouser	but rhickey hasn't pulled it yet, so I may be off base