#clojure – 2009-06-04

2009-06-04

00:00	durka42	i believe your paste but cannot duplicate the results
00:00	durka42	even running with -server
00:00	hiredman	that may just be how hotspot works
00:01	durka42	do you know what the command to run java is?
00:01	durka42	hotspot is spooky, by definition :)
00:01	stuhood	~source time
00:02	arohner_	I'm calling just "java -cp ..."
00:02	arohner_	I guess I should use -server
00:02	arohner_	let's see if it still happens...
00:02	hiredman	arohner_: what is your java -version?
00:02	arohner_	llen@hydra:~$ java -version
00:02	arohner_	java version "1.6.0_0"
00:02	arohner_	OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea6 1.4.1) (6b14-1.4.1-0ubuntu7)
00:02	arohner_	OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 14.0-b08, mixed mode)
00:02	arohner_	ubuntu 9.04 64-bit
00:03	durka42	hmm, openjdk
00:03	hiredman	arohner_: looks like you are already running the server vm
00:04	arohner_	oh, right
00:04	durka42	i have b7, so maybe there's new stuff
00:05	durka42	er
00:05	durka42	build 1.6.0_07-b06
00:08	hiredman	those version numbers don't appear to be comparable
00:09	icey	not to change subjects or anything, but the dead tree version of programming clojure turned out REALLY nicely
00:16	arohner_	empirically, it takes the JVM about a second to throw away the optimizations
00:16	arohner_	i.e. (do (dotimes [i 10] (perf-test) (Thread/sleep x) (dotimes [i 10] (perf-test)))
00:17	arohner_	if x is less than 1000, there is no loss in performance
00:20	ezyang	Why does clojure have set/select instead of set/filter?
00:23	hiredman	hmmm
00:23	hiredman	I have b10
00:25	hiredman	I just rebuilt openjdk using openjdk
00:27	arohner_	durka42: there is
00:27	arohner_	they're behind the ADC login
00:27	arohner_	kjata:~ arohner$ java -version
00:27	arohner_	java version "1.6.0_13"
00:27	arohner_	Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_13-b03-206)
00:27	arohner_	Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 11.3-b02-82, mixed mode)
00:27	arohner_	that's on my OSX box
00:32	durka42	arohner_: thanks, i'll check it out
00:32	durka42	tomorrow
00:49	ataggart	,(instance? Object "")
00:49	clojurebot	true
00:51	ataggart	(doc seq?)
00:51	clojurebot	"([x]); Return true if x implements ISeq"
00:55	ataggart	(doc sequential?)
00:55	clojurebot	"([coll]); Returns true if coll implements Sequential"
00:55	ataggart	(sequential? [])
00:55	ataggart	,(sequential? [])
00:55	clojurebot	true
00:55	ataggart	,(sequential? "")
00:55	clojurebot	false
00:59	hiredman	strings are java strings so there is no way to open them up and have them implement clojure interfaces
01:00	ataggart	ya, but they're seqable, so I was just playing to see if sequential? applied
01:00	ataggart	reading the google groups stuff
01:00	hiredman	they are sequable because seq knows how to make sequences from them
01:00	ataggart	yup
01:01	ataggart	just seeing if that predicate applied or not
01:01	ataggart	it doesn't. I have no opinion on it, just playing
01:01	hiredman	,(ancestors String)
01:01	clojurebot	#{java.lang.CharSequence java.io.Serializable java.lang.Object java.lang.Comparable}
01:01	ataggart	oh wait
01:02	ataggart	,(map str "hello")
01:02	clojurebot	("h" "e" "l" "l" "o")
01:02	ataggart	well
01:02	ataggart	is that map being clever and I really do need to call (seq "foo") is I want to use a strign as a seq?
01:03	hiredman	most sequence functions call seq on their arguments
01:03	hiredman	,(first "hello")
01:03	clojurebot	\h
01:03	ataggart	ya, just looked at the source
01:03	ataggart	that's probably a good habit to get into
01:03	ataggart	instead of assuming one is being passed a seq
10:13	Chouser	,(expression-info '(+ 5 (float 10)))
10:13	clojurebot	{:class java.lang.Number, :primitive? false}
10:13	Chouser	,(expression-info '(+ (float 5) (float 10)))
10:13	clojurebot	{:class float, :primitive? true}
10:38	kefka	,(+ 1 2 3)
10:38	clojurebot	6
10:38	kefka	(Just making sure I'm connected.)
10:39	Chouser	kefka: Beware -- this may be just a halucination.
10:43	ozzilee	I'm trying to write a macro that outputs a (POST "url" ...) form inside of defroutes in Compojure, and I'm hitting a wall. The macro is trying to resolve "params" which is only bound inside POST, after the macro is expanded.
10:43	ozzilee	I'm not even sure where to go from here.
10:44	Chousuke	ozzilee: show what you have for now.
10:45	Chouser	ozzilee: http://clojure-log.n01se.net/macro.html
10:47	ozzilee	Ok, let me simpify it a bit first...
10:47	Chousuke	Chouser: maybe you should submit that thing to the lisppaste folks so they can add it to the site :D
10:59	lisppaste8	ozzilee pasted "resolution" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81354
11:00	ozzilee	The macro itself is fine, except that params is a voodoo variable from compojure that I'm not sure how to deal with.
11:00	Chouser	ah! try ~'params instead of plain params
11:02	chillitom	guy's is there a way I can download the online documentation so I can work offline?
11:02	Chouser	chillitom: for api stuff, you can just use 'doc' and 'find-doc' in the repl. You want the other pages too?
11:05	chillitom	as much as I can get
11:05	chillitom	any good pdf's or tutorials you can point me at would be great too
11:06	ozzilee	Chouser: No dice, it's still trying to resolve params somewhere.
11:06	Chouser	user/POST is a bit odd -- isn't POST a macro or something in a compojure namespace?
11:07	Chousuke	do you have it required? :)
11:09	ozzilee	Wait, nevermind that did work. I did '~params instead of ~'params.
11:09	ozzilee	I was using `~ somewhere else and didn't read your suggestion closely enough. That's something else entirely.
11:10	Chousuke	~'foo is generally bad in macros but sometimes you need it.
11:10	clojurebot	'Sea, mhuise.
11:10	Chousuke	oops
11:10	Chouser	heh
11:11	Chouser	clojurebot: foo?
11:11	clojurebot	namespaces are (more or less, Chouser) java packages. they look like foo.bar; and corresponde to a directory foo/ containg a file bar.clj in your classpath. the namespace declaration in bar.clj would like like (ns foo.bar). Do not try to use single segment namespaces. a single segment namespace is a namespace without a period in it
11:11	Chouser	oh, my.
11:11	Chouser	clojurebot: ~'foo?
11:11	clojurebot	excusez-moi
11:11	Chouser	hm
11:11	Chousuke	~'foo
11:11	clojurebot	'foo is generally bad in macros but sometimes you need it.
11:11	Chousuke	clojurebot: forget 'foo
11:11	clojurebot	I forgot 'foo
11:12	Chousuke	it's good that it looks ugly so whenever you see ~'foo in a macro you know to stop and reconsider whether it's really needed.
11:13	ozzilee	It's basically a trick to stop Clojure from trying to resolve the symbol, yes?
11:13	Chousuke	yeah
11:13	Chousuke	thus causing the macro to be nonhygienic
11:13	Chousuke	or whatever the fancy word was.
11:15	Chousuke	anaphoric! that's it.
11:16	ozzilee	I don't think that's quite it. I'm not sure if it's nonhygenic either, but whatever it is is necessary for anaphoric macros, but not necessarily anaphoric myself. I think :-)
11:17	Chousuke	well, the macro "overrides" a name in the environment
11:18	Chousuke	which is difficult to do by accident thanks to syntax-quote resolving names by default and let refusing to bind to fully qualified names.
11:18	ozzilee	Yeah, variable capture. There might be a fancier word than that.
11:19	ozzilee	I think nonhygenic is probably it.
11:21	Chousuke	http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/Lisp/comp.lang.lisp/2005-05/msg00548.html this is informative
11:22	Chousuke	ozzilee: be sure to remember to document that "params" is bound to something within your macro.
11:23	ozzilee	Chousuke: Indeec.
11:24	ozzilee	*indeed.
11:28	ezyang	In the api docs, what does args* mean?
11:29	ezyang	Also, what does the ampersand mean?
11:31	ozzilee	ampersand means "collect at the rest of the args in a seq and call them this"
11:32	ezyang	Ok, so it's sort of like Haskell's x:xs
11:32	ozzilee	(fn [x & ys]) will take any number of args, with everything after the first one collected in ys.
11:32	ozzilee	ezyang: Yeah.
11:32	ezyang	What about the asterisk
11:33	ozzilee	I think it means optional arguments, but it's not clojure syntax. Just a shorthand for the docs.
11:33	ezyang	Savvy.
11:35	ezyang	If I have something like ([] (expr)), what does that do?
11:35	Chousuke	where is it? :)
11:35	ezyang	I don't understand how the vector can be applied
11:35	ezyang	It's a defn named run-tests
11:35	Chousuke	it's an overload
11:35	Chousuke	you can have multiple arities with defn
11:36	Chouser	ah! the other place were the thing at the head of a list isn't called
11:36	ezyang	Why does clojure like calling its parameters "arities"? :-)
11:37	Chousuke	ezyang: because I didn't mean parameters
11:37	Chousuke	[x y z] <- x, y an z are parameters, the arity is 3
11:37	Chousuke	multiple parameters, one arity :)
11:37	ezyang	kk :-)
11:39	Chousuke	(defn foo ([x] x) ([x y] (+ x (inc y)))) <- multiple arities
11:39	Chousuke	Chouser: where's the other place? :/
11:39	ezyang	Ok, so what's confusig me, then, is that the first overload is [& namespaces]; doesn't the ampersand make namespaces optional?
11:39	Chousuke	yes.
11:40	Chousuke	it could be empty
11:40	ezyang	But then, I have another overload that is []
11:40	Chousuke	yeah, that's for the case when it IS empty.
11:40	ezyang	And it seems to me that the second one would never be seen
11:40	Chousuke	well, it's picked when you actually have a namespace :)
11:40	ezyang	Huh. Then wouldn't ([namespace] (expr)) work?
11:41	Chousuke	that would only allow one parameter.
11:41	ezyang	Oh... then I don't know what & means
11:41	ezyang	Oh man, I thought it was [namespaces &], but it's actually [& namespaces]
11:41	ezyang	Ok, makes perfect sense now
11:42	Chousuke	(let [[a b & xs] [1 2 3 4 5 6 7]] [a b xs])
11:42	Chousuke	,(let [[a b & xs] [1 2 3 4 5 6 7]] [a b xs])
11:42	clojurebot	[1 2 (3 4 5 6 7)]
11:42	Chousuke	I always forget that
11:42	Chousuke	note that the & foo parameter is a lazy sequence
11:42	ezyang	Perfect.
11:43	ezyang	I have another question, now: what's the difference between bindings and let?
11:43	ezyang	s/bindings/binding/
11:43	ezyang	Like, I understand that their method of operation is different, but I wonder if that results in a functional difference
11:43	ezyang	(pun not intended)
11:44	Chousuke	let binds a name/var in the lexical context to a value. binding binds it in a thread-local dynamic context.
11:45	ezyang	Oh, and lexical context isn't necessarily equivalent to thread-local?
11:46	ozzilee	For example, you could re-bind println to do something else, and every call to println, even in code in another function, would use that new definition.
11:46	Chousuke	so if you have a global var x bound to 5, use it in a function foo, the (let [x 1] (foo)) will return whatever foo returns when x is 5, but (binding [x 1] (foo)) will return whatever foo returns when x is 1
11:47	Chousuke	yeah
11:47	Chousuke	hmm
11:47	ozzilee	let only binds things you can see, binding binds things everywhere.
11:47	ezyang	neat
11:47	Chousuke	binding has some gotchas with lazy evaluation though
11:48	ezyang	I can imgaine
11:48	ezyang	*imagine
11:48	ezyang	Monkeying around with global state, naughty naughty
11:48	Chousuke	,(let [x 1] (binding [x 5] (map #(+ x %) [1 2 3 4 5])))
11:48	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: x in this context
11:48	Chousuke	hm
11:48	Chousuke	I guess it doesn't work with let-bound stuff
11:49	aravind	I'd like some general advise about clojure web frameworks. I know of compojure and webjure. Are there any other? I really, really don't like writing html or anything to do with html.. so I was wondering if there was anything similar to weblocks in clojure?
11:49	ezyang	That's... odd.
11:49	ozzilee	Chousuke: No, it has to be a top-level var, afaik.
11:49	ezyang	,(binding [x 5] (map #(+ x %) [1 2 3 4]))
11:49	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: x in this context
11:49	ezyang	Ok.
11:49	Chousuke	ezyang: and it's thread-local monkeying, so it's fine.
11:50	Chousuke	,(declare x)
11:50	clojurebot	DENIED
11:50	ezyang	Chousuke: heh
11:50	Chousuke	damn
11:50	ezyang	Cute. :-)
11:50	Chousuke	there are ways to circumvent it though.
11:50	ozzilee	aravind: I use compojure, I don't know of anything beside those two. There isn't anything as abstract as, say, Seaside. I haven't used weblocks.
11:50	Chousuke	,(intern ns 'x 1)
11:50	clojurebot	DENIED
11:51	aravind	ozzilee: weblocks has a bunch of cool features, but I'd willing to settle for anything that gets html away from me!
11:51	danlarkin	let is lexical scope
11:52	ozzilee	aravind: Yeah, there's no web ui library as far as I know. Compojure has an html macro: (html [:html [:head [:title "Title"]] [:body [:h1 "Hi"]]])
11:52	ozzilee	But it's still html, just a different syntax.
11:52	Chousuke	~def intern
11:52	ozzilee	danlarkin: But is binding dynamic scope, or something else entirely?
11:53	danlarkin	ozzilee: yup, dynamic
11:53	aravind	ozzilee: yeah, I was afraid I'd end up having to write html :(
11:53	Chousuke	,(clojure.lang.Var/intern (the-ns ns) 'x 1)
11:53	clojurebot	DENIED
11:54	Chousuke	I wonder if hiredman made it use a whitelist instead of a blacklist
11:54	danlarkin	aravind: there's my (very) immature web platform, madison... http://github.com/danlarkin/madison/tree/master
11:54	ozzilee	aravind: You could always look into one of the high-level javascript frameworks, not sure if you really gain a lot by going that way though. Still not pure clojure code.
11:56	aravind	danlarkin: do you have any example pages that show how I'd write code to say display a struct?
11:56	Chousuke	,(binding [+ -] (map + [1 2 3 4 5]))
11:56	clojurebot	(-1 -2 -3 -4 -5)
11:56	ozzilee	SproutCore, Dojo, that's Cocoa-esque one that I forget the name of. Probably all more complex than you want.
11:57	aravind	ozzilee: so java should have some web frameworks to abstract away the html part, but I don't know enough about compojure to know if I can hammer those on top of it.
11:57	Chousuke	,(let [a (binding [+ -] (map + [1 2 3 4 5]))] a)
11:58	clojurebot	(-1 -2 -3 -4 -5)
11:58	Chousuke	hmm. now I can't figure out the situation where that return just (1 2 3 4 5) :/
11:58	Chousuke	+s
11:59	aravind	ozzilee: I am really only beginning to think of the web frameworks to display my data, so I am still in the research phase :)
11:59	danlarkin	aravind: it's really light on documentation/examples ATM. It's pretty simple though... you won't really get to avoid HTML though... unless you want to return text/plain
11:59	Chousuke	,(let [a (future (binding [+ -] (map + [1 2 3 4 5])))] @a)
11:59	clojurebot	(-1 -2 -3 -4 -5)
12:01	aravind	danlarkin: ah okay, my goal is to find out a way to have some java library or framework to display my data and take care of providing edit fields, submit button etc.. I really really liked weblocks for that, but its in cl.. so that killed it for me.
12:01	ozzilee	aravind: You should be able to get compojure to work with a java framework... or skip compojure and just wrap the java framework by itself.
12:02	aravind	ozzilee: wait.. are you saying I could use something like say spring, and make it play nice with clojure?
12:03	ozzilee	aravind: I don't see why not. Clojure's java-interop is pretty good.
12:04	aravind	hmm.. that's something I hadn't considered before..
12:06	ozzilee	aravind: I've never been happy with html-generators for very long. I always want to twist them in some way they weren't meant to be twisted :-) The html for forms and such should be pretty simple, unless you get into fancy javascript things.
12:08	aravind	ozzilee: I am very happy to use the stock stuff and leave the css, layouts, colours, etc.. for people with more skill than I have.
12:09	aravind	would you know if webjure is any more pliable than compojure for this sort of html-generator integration?
12:10	ozzilee	aravind: No, I haven't used webjure. Compojure should be fine, it can just serve up whatever html string/stream gets generated.
12:11	ozzilee	Actually, now that I think of it, compojure has some helpers that might do most of what you need.
12:11	ozzilee	Things like (unordered-list ["foo" "bar" "baz"]).
12:12	aravind	oh nice
12:12	Chouser	have you guys looked at enlive?
12:12	ozzilee	Chouser: Deeply :-)
12:12	Chouser	ok, good.
12:13	Chouser	I haven't yet, but it sounds yummy.
12:13	Chouser	as does lunch, come to think of it. bbl...
12:13	ozzilee	Chouser: I'm still stumbling my way through the syntax a bit, but the idea seems sound.
12:14	ozzilee	aravind: It's probably not quite what you're looking for. It's for starting with hand-written html and transforming it in code.
12:14	ozzilee	The opposite of what you want, actually :-)
12:14	aravind	heh, thanks :)
12:15	ozzilee	aravind: Here you go, compojure's form helpers: http://github.com/weavejester/compojure/blob/551b30350ca741c8b53042fdc5de1c5231459251/src/compojure/html/form_helpers.clj
12:16	aravind	ozzilee: sweet.. I see the magic words "Functions for generating HTML forms" :)
12:16	ozzilee	aravind: Enlive would be nice if you had designers creating a template and you needed to stick some html into the middle of it. It won't help in generating the html for you, though. At least, afaik.
12:17	ozzilee	aravind: Good deal, and good luck. I haven't played with that yet.
12:17	aravind	ozzilee: very cool, thanks for the pointers.
12:19	ozzilee	aravind: No problem, any time. I'm not on here nearly as much as I should be, but you can get me at ozzi@ozzilee.com if you want, I do a fair bit of web-related clojure stuff. So do a lot of other people in here, though :-)
12:19	aravind	thank you!
12:29	cemerick	isn't the real draw of enlive that you can use html emitted by e.g. dreamweaver, and just populate the data you need? It doesn't have to be 'hand written' by any stretch AFAIK.
12:44	ozzilee	cemerick: Yes, that too.
12:44	ozzilee	But it still won't help you generate a form from a map.
12:44	ozzilee	For example, afaik.
12:46	cemerick	huh, I thought you could inject arbitrary html if you so desired
12:46	ozzilee	I should have said pre-written instead of hand written.
12:46	ozzilee	cemerick: Right, but it doesn't create the html. It could inject "<ul><li>foo</li></ul>", but it wouldn't generate that from ["foo"].
12:47	aravind	cemerick: yup, it looks like thats what it does, lets you use pre-existing html with your code. I wanted something to generate all the html for me.
12:47	ozzilee	Unless he's added in some html generation capabilities that I don't know about, of course.
13:18	cemerick	am I misreading things, or is there no sorted-set-by? The necessary constructor in PersistentTreeSet is package-private.
13:23	Chouser	cemerick: http://code.google.com/p/clojure/issues/detail?id=76
13:28	stuartsierra	Anyone feel excited about a new string library?
13:28	Chousuke	looks neat.
13:28	stuartsierra	Chousuke: thanks
13:30	Chousuke	it's a shame that the string-specific partition etc. can't be made transparent, though :/
13:30	stuartsierra	Yeah, but unless core goes heavy into multimethods, which would kill performance, that can't happen.
13:31	Chouser	what string library are we talking about?
13:31	stuartsierra	c.c.str-utils2
13:32	replaca	I'm excited that the autodoc picked it up right (which it didn't do for fnmap)
13:32	clojurebot	for is not used enough
13:33	replaca	stuartsierra: can you put arglist metadata on the multimethods when you get a chance? Clojure doesn't do that automatically.
13:33	stuartsierra	replaca: sure
13:34	stuartsierra	replaca: autodoc only got about 1/4 of the definitions.
13:35	replaca	stuartsierra: really? thanks for pointing it out. There's something weird going on there. Time to debug! (But I can't do it right now.)
13:35	stuartsierra	no worries
13:35	replaca	Everyone, please let me know if you see the autodoc not working right! I promise I'll fix it :-)
13:36	Chouser	the value of the replace multimethod over String.replace() is performance?
13:38	hiredman	uh, really?
13:39	Chouser	dunno, that's why I asked.
13:40	pragdave	Greetings. I was wondering if you folks would care to criticize my first foray into Clojure. I implemented Havil's analysis of The Impossible Problem (a math puzzle)
13:42	lisppaste8	pragdave pasted "First attempt at a solution to the "Impossible Problem"" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81369
13:50	stuartsierra	Chouser: no, flexibility. the replace multimethod accepts a function for the replacement
13:53	ozzilee	pragdave: Looks pretty darn good to me. The code, anyway. I'll have to trust you on the math :-)
13:54	pragdave	ozzilee: thanks. I don't like the code that removes pairs with duplicae products and sums. I just know there has to be a better way
13:54	ozzilee	pragdave: You're talking about pairs-with-unique-result ?
13:54	pragdave	yes
13:55	ezyang	What does #^String at the beginning of an arguments list for a defn mean?
13:56	ozzilee	Hmm. The recursion could be an issue, as clojure doesn't optimize tail recursion. Let me take a crack at it.
13:56	stuartsierra	ezyang: type hint for the Clojure compiler, to prevent reflective calls
13:56	ezyang	Savvy.
14:02	ozzilee	pragdave: How about (values (zipmap (map function pairs) pairs))? Create a map with the results as the keys and the pairs as the values, which will necessarily only include unique keys (results), then take the values (pairs).
14:06	lisppaste8	Chousuke annotated #81369 "simplified and using recur" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81369#1
14:06	Chousuke	I hope that works
14:07	mrsolo	M-x slime-edit-definition explodes on me..anybody else seen this?
14:09	lisppaste8	hiredman annotated #81369 "as long as everyone else is doing it" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81369#2
14:10	hiredman	basically the same as Chousuke's
14:10	hiredman	even the double ifs and the let
14:11	cemerick	Chouser: do you keep a stack of patches to clojure, etc. in git only locally, or do you also push those patches to some remote git repo as well?
14:13	Chouser	cemerick: I'm not currently maintaining a git branch. the patches that I've produced that aren't in the main svn are either attached to issues or (for clojurescript) checked (as a patch!) into contrib.
14:15	alrex021	(defn get-lower [s] (apply str [filter #(Character/isLowerCase %) s])) ... This function is suppose to return a string of all lower case characters in a given string. I get back "clojure.core$filter__4465@d5e6dauser$get_lower__1792$fn__1794@4a25abABCdef". What's missing, if anything? (Learning clojure :-))
14:15	cemerick	ah -- then perhaps what I'm trying to do isn't reasonable. I'd like to git-clone the clojure svn, push some changesets on top of the particular rev we want to track for a while, and then push the whole thing to our gitosis. Unfortunately, the svn info doesn't seem to get carried along when I push.
14:16	pragdave	ozzilee: I think that returns the first pair for each distict (function a b), rather than pairs with unique values for (function a b)
14:17	Chouser	alrex021: use parens instead of square brackets around get-lower
14:17	Chouser	sorry, around filter
14:18	lisppaste8	hiredman annotated #81369 "using reduce" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81369#3
14:18	alrex021	Chouser: thank you
14:19	Chouser	alrex021: scheme background? square brackets in Clojure have very specific meaning that is different from parens.
14:20	pragdave	hiredman: Ithink your solution does the same thing--returns onr pair per unique result, rather than pairs that have a unique result
14:21	hiredman	pragdave: eh?
14:21	ozzilee	pragdave: Yup, we both got it wrong :-)
14:21	pragdave	(pairs-with-unique-result * [[1 2] [2 1] [3 4] [3 3] [2 6]])
14:21	pragdave	should return ([3 3])
14:22	pragdave	because no other pair has a unique result
14:22	alrex021	Chouser: "scheme background?" No, its actually an example that I saw but the example was in an low quality image.. so couldn't make out if it was square brackets or parens.
14:22	Chouser	alrex021: ah. I believe scheme (or some schemes, anyway?) allow parens and square brackets to be used interchangably.
14:23	alrex021	Chouser: ouch thats confusing (if interchangably)
14:24	alrex021	Chouser: is parents though suppose to represent a list or a form of grouping blocks of code, or both?
14:24	ezyang	Does clojure do "The Right Thing" with decimal literals?
14:24	Chousuke	alrex021: parens always represent a list
14:25	alrex021	Chousuke: ok, I see. thx
14:26	Chouser	alrex021: a list can represent a function call, a block of code, or something along those lines ...when evaluated.
14:26	Chousuke	alrex021: in clojure, () means lists, [] represents a vector, {} a map, and #{} a set. Clojure code is made of these things :)
14:26	Chousuke	alrex021: the lists, vectors, maps and sets I mean, not the characters.
14:26	lisppaste8	hiredman annotated #81369 "corrected reduce" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81369#4
14:27	alrex021	Chousuke: yup, it took me a few days to get my head around that concept that in Clojure...data sets rule :)
14:28	Chousuke	I wonder what clojure would look like with an xml-based syntax :/
14:28	hiredman	Chousuke: ssshh
14:28	ezyang	xslt?
14:28	alrex021	Chousuke: I read the Programming Clojure book... and will read it again as things are certainly making more sense now. Coming from an OOP background for many years with no exposer to FP, its mind blowing :)
14:29	Chousuke	<list><atom val="+" /><atom val="1"/> <atom val="2"/></list>
14:29	Chousuke	not nice.
14:29	hiredman	erm
14:29	Chouser	alrex021: welcome! it keeps being fun. :-)
14:29	hiredman	it'd be like <double val="">
14:29	Chousuke	oh, right.
14:30	Chousuke	<list><symbol val="+" /><number val="1"/> <number val="2"/></list> <- corrected
14:31	Chousuke	still, all you need is a reader for the xml-based syntax and you'd be able to write clojure in it ;/
14:32	rabidsnail	Here's a puzzler. If I have a clojure hashmap whose values are SoftReferences, and one of the values gets garbage collected, does contains? on its key return true or nil?
14:33	Chouser	true
14:34	pragdave	hiredman: that's funny. My first solution used a hash, and I rejected it because I thought I was being too Ruby-like
14:36	Chousuke	purist lispers might disagree, but with clojure it's idiomatic to make full use of the available data structures ;)
14:37	ezyang	I come from scheme, and I like the fact that clojure has good data structures
14:37	ezyang	No more cons'ing down the list :-)
14:41	hiredman	bah
14:41	alrex021	Enclojure or Emacs with Slime? I am trying to decide between the two, any bias opinions? :)
14:42	hiredman	Chouser: is there an easy way to check if an arbitrary symbol is bound to a var?
14:42	Chouser	,(resolve 'map)
14:42	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/map
14:42	Chouser	easier than that?
14:42	Chousuke	,(resolve 'asdfjasj)
14:42	clojurebot	nil
14:43	hiredman	oh
14:43	hiredman	that's pretty easy
14:43	Chouser	yeah, I use it all the time. probably more than I should.
14:52	hiredman	replaca: it would be nice if the :vars bit in the contrib json also contained namespace information
14:52	hiredman	like what namespace the var's symbol is in
14:53	hiredman	(doc xml1->)
14:53	clojurebot	"[[loc & preds]]; Returns the first item from loc based on the query predicates given. See xml->"
14:58	replaca	hiredman: ok, i'll take a look
14:58	replaca	hiredman: shouldn't be a problem
15:03	ezyang	Clojure doesn't have pattern matching :-(
15:04	Chouser	ezyang: but it has macros, so you can add it yourself. :-)
15:04	Chouser	ezyang: what's your use case?
15:05	hiredman	ezyang: http://www.thelastcitadel.com/blag/clojure_multi-method
15:05	hiredman	I guess I should update that
15:06	ezyang	Chouser: It's just something I'm used to from Haskell
15:06	ezyang	I'm not actually interested in hacking it on
15:07	ezyang	,(when 0 1)
15:07	clojurebot	1
15:07	ezyang	Wait, what?
15:07	hiredman	ezyang: anything not nil is true
15:07	ezyang	Oh
15:07	ezyang	,(nil 0 1)
15:07	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Can't call nil
15:07	hiredman	(when nil 1)
15:07	ezyang	um.
15:08	hiredman	,(when nil 1)
15:08	clojurebot	nil
15:08	ezyang	Savvy
15:08	hiredman	nil is not a function, so you cannot call it as a function
15:08	ezyang	That was a typo
15:28	tashafa	how do you take all but the last element in a seq?
15:29	gnuvince	,(butlast [1,2,3,4,5])
15:29	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4)
15:29	tashafa	(doc butlast)
15:29	clojurebot	"([coll]); Return a seq of all but the last item in coll, in linear time"
15:30	hiredman	~def butlast
15:30	tashafa	thanks gnuvince... i knew i had come accross it before
15:30	Chouser	or drop-last
15:30	hiredman	~def drop-last
15:31	tashafa	(doc drop-last)
15:31	clojurebot	"([s] [n s]); Return a lazy sequence of all but the last n (default 1) items in coll"
15:39	Chousuke	drop-last is pretty clever.
15:51	kefka	,(defmacro q [x] `(if (nil? ~x) ~x (~x 4)))
15:51	clojurebot	DENIED
15:51	kefka	This raises an error ("can't call nil") but it shouldn't, right?
15:52	kefka	When x = nil, it'll expand into (if (nil? nil) nil (nil 4)), which should be harmless.
15:52	kefka	because the (nil 4) will never execute.
15:52	hiredman	damn
15:52	Chouser	hmph
15:52	hiredman	thats what I get for playing around in the clojurebot repl
15:53	gnuvince	(doc assert)
15:53	clojurebot	"([x]); Evaluates expr and throws an exception if it does not evaluate to logical true."
15:53	Chouser	but (let [y nil] (q y)) is fine
15:54	Chouser	it's only when x is known to be nil at compile-time that it's a problem
15:54	Chouser	(defmacro q [x] (when x `(if (nil? ~x) ~x (~x 4))))
16:57	lisppaste8	pragdave annotated #81369 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81369#5
16:59	hiredman	ah
16:59	hiredman	of course
17:05	Chousuke	the q macro evaluates x too many times anyway :)
17:06	Chouser	so true
17:08	lisppaste8	hoeck annotated #81369 "using contrib" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81369#6
17:21	kefka	I've noticed something interesting about STM Refs: if someone is reading it in a dosync block, and the ref changes, the reader may or may not receive the update.
17:22	kefka	My test has been to: 1. (def r (ref 0))
17:22	kefka	2. (with-new-thread (dotimes [i 100] (Thread/sleep 1000) (println @r)))
17:23	hiredman	kefka: a transaction is a snapshot in time
17:23	kefka	Ok.
17:23	kefka	So there's no guarantee that a reader in a transaction will recieve updates.
17:23	hiredman	what is the rest of your test?
17:23	kefka	On 2, the dotimes was in a dosync.
17:23	kefka	3. Repeatedly (dosync (alter r inc))
17:23	hiredman	kefka: the whole point is it should not
17:24	kefka	Ok. I know that if ensure, alter, et al are used, the variable is only modifiable by that transaction.
17:25	Chouser	if the value of r appears to change within a single transaction, that would be an error.
17:25	Chouser	a bug, I should say
17:25	hiredman	wrapping that dotimes in a dosync makes the whole thing happen within one transaction
17:25	hiredman	so it will only ever seen one value for r
17:26	kefka	Ok. Let me try that again.
17:26	kefka	Make sure I'm not doing something wrong.
17:27	hiredman	kefka: http://blip.tv/file/812787/ <-- have you seen this?
17:28	hiredman	it's not that you are doing something wrong, you don't understand what a transaction is, so you cannot reason correctly about their behaviour
17:28	hiredman	come to think of it, I may watch that video again
17:30	kefka	Yeah. I need to watch the vid again.
17:30	kefka	The value not changing makes sense to me. I was confused by the inconsistent behavior.
17:31	hiredman	?
17:32	kefka	The value being printed by (2) changes.
17:32	kefka	Sometimes, but not always.
17:32	hiredman	kefka: because transactions get retried
17:32	hiredman	that it is why side effects in a transaction are a bad idea
17:33	hiredman	like printing or starting a new thread
17:33	kefka	Ah. This makes sense.
17:34	Chouser	you could print a marker inside the dosync but before the dotimes loop, to see when it gets restarted.
17:37	Chousuke	hmm
17:40	kefka	I think I figured out my problem. Thanks. I was abusing the STM because I thought readers in a dosync block had no effect on anything until ensure was called.
17:40	kefka	,(doc ensure)
17:40	clojurebot	"([ref]); Must be called in a transaction. Protects the ref from modification by other transactions. Returns the in-transaction-value of ref. Allows for more concurrency than (ref-set ref @ref)"
17:40	hiredman	they don't have an effect
17:41	Chouser	but there is a consequence for being in a dosync
17:41	kefka	So ensure in transaction T1 means that some other transaction T2 can't alter the ref and force T1 to restart?
17:41	clojurebot	alter is always correct
17:43	kgrad5	How does Clojure's performance compare to Scala and Java? (sorry if this has been asked 9 million times before).
17:43	hiredman	kgrad5: if you do it right, on your performence sensitive inner loops you get the same jvm byte code as you do from java
17:44	technomancy	kgrad5: sometimes getting Java speed requires adding some additional type hints and other kinds of tweaks to your code, but AFAIK you can always get pretty close.
17:44	Chouser	* after HotSpot has had its way
17:45	hiredman	?
17:45	kgrad5	Interesting, thanks
17:47	Chousuke	kgrad5: Rich is also working on some new stuff on trunk that might make it even easier to write performant clojure code :)
17:47	hiredman	rhickey is always cooking something
17:47	hiredman	I am still waiting for scopes
17:47	Chousuke	kgrad5: most of clojure improvements are still architectural though.
17:48	Chousuke	kgrad5: the compiler itself doesn't bother with much optimisation :)
17:48	kgrad5	Cool, thanks Chousuke, I assume this is mostly due to how new Clojure is?
17:49	Chousuke	kgrad5: yeah, and the architectural stuff is where the real performance gains are, anyway.
17:49	kgrad5	I doubt I will be doing anything that requires supreme performance, but it's nice to know you can still optimize and get almost Java performance, looking forward to diving into my copy of Programming Clojure when it arrives.
17:49	Chousuke	no need to optimise existing solutions when you can provide new stuff that is naturally faster
17:50	Chousuke	kgrad5: in the worst case, you always have Java as a "low level langauge" if you just can't get enough performance out of clojure.
17:51	Chousuke	language*
17:51	Chousuke	but the goal is to make that a rare occurrence.
17:51	kgrad5	Chousuke: yeah exactly :D, is it really easy to use java libraries with Clojure and vice versa? (Clojure classes within java)
17:52	Chousuke	kgrad5: java from clojure is really easy. Clojure from java I've never tried, but it shouldn't be too difficult either.
17:52	hiredman	clojure doesn't have classes, there are only java classes
17:52	kgrad5	sorry i should have said clojure code
17:52	hiredman	I have done a very little of that
17:52	Chouser	Clojure from java isn't too bad.
17:52	hiredman	mostly the other way around, java from clojure
17:53	hiredman	,(import 'java.util.ArrayList)
17:53	clojurebot	java.util.ArrayList
17:53	hiredman	,(ArrayList. '(1 2 3 4))
17:53	clojurebot	#<ArrayList [1, 2, 3, 4]>
17:53	hiredman	,(import 'java.util.Collections)
17:53	technomancy	Clojure from Java seems very awkward to me, but I haven't done much Java to Java; it's probably about par for the course. =)
17:53	clojurebot	java.util.Collections
17:54	Chouser	I've got a lib that is 100% clojure code, but when compiled AOT provides a few Java classes such that users code (written in Java) can't tell it's not .java inside.
17:54	Chousuke	technomancy: I suppose it could be made easier with some utility classes
17:54	hiredman	,(let [a (ArrayList. (range 10)] (Collections/shuffle a) (vec a))
17:54	clojurebot	Unmatched delimiter: ]
17:54	hiredman	,(let [a (ArrayList. (range 10))] (Collections/shuffle a) (vec a))
17:54	clojurebot	[4 5 0 7 8 6 1 2 9 3]
17:55	Chousuke	:)
17:55	hiredman	but that is all mutable and icky
17:55	kgrad5	I could see that being very useful for integrating clojure with some existing java programs Chouser
17:56	ozzilee	Is there a function where (x "test") -> "test" and (x :test) -> "test" as well?
17:56	hiredman	,(doc as-str)
17:56	Chouser	kgrad5: yep, that's what I'm doing. Setting up the build environment, figuring out gen-class, etc. is still a bit tricky and somewhat weakly documented, but it's doable and runs plenty fast.
17:56	clojurebot	"[[x]]; Returns the name or string representation of x"
17:57	ozzilee	hiredman: Ah, there it is. Thanks.
17:57	hiredman	ozzilee: that is in contrib somewhere
17:57	hiredman	(not sure where)
17:57	technomancy	there's no way to alias namespaces, is there?
17:57	ozzilee	hiredman: So it is. I'll find it.
17:57	Chouser	technomancy: sure
17:57	Chousuke	(doc alias=
17:57	technomancy	I see people refer to contrib libraries as c.c.repl-utils etc, but that's just a shorthand convention, not recognized by clojure?
17:57	clojurebot	EOF while reading
17:57	Chousuke	(doc alias)
17:57	clojurebot	"([alias namespace-sym]); Add an alias in the current namespace to another namespace. Arguments are two symbols: the alias to be used, and the symbolic name of the target namespace. Use :as in the ns macro in preference to calling this directly."
17:57	technomancy	oh, nice
17:58	hiredman	yeah
17:58	technomancy	Chousuke: but that only applies on a per-namespace level
17:58	hiredman	use :as
17:58	durka42_	,as-str
17:58	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: as-str in this context
17:59	hiredman	durka42: uses magic json replaca generates to lookup contrib stuff
17:59	Chousuke	technomancy: right. there could actually be a real c.c.repl-utils namespace :P
17:59	durka42	i see
17:59	technomancy	gotcha
18:00	technomancy	well I don't use repl-utils anymore since I discovered the slime inspector works on classes, but I was still curious
18:00	kgrad5	Does Clojure do tail-call optimization?
18:00	hiredman	nope
18:00	technomancy	kgrad5: not implicitly
18:00	Chousuke	kgrad5: the JVM doesn't support it, so no.
18:01	dnolen	kgrad5: no, it has loop/recur and trampolines instead
18:01	hiredman	and lazy-seqs
18:02	kgrad5	Interesting, are there any benefits to using tail recursion then?
18:02	hiredman	looks cleaner?
18:02	Chousuke	kgrad5: sure, but you just do it explicitly with recur
18:02	Chousuke	until the JVM gets TCO at least. :)
18:03	kgrad5	I'll start the letter campaign to oracle ;)
18:03	Chousuke	isn't it going to be in JDK7? or was it just escape analysis that's going there.
18:03	hiredman	,(loop [i 0] (if (> i 5) (println "done") (recur (inc i))))
18:03	clojurebot	done
18:03	Chousuke	also works with functions.
18:03	hiredman	Chousuke: I think escape analysis was in the last java6 update
18:04	Chousuke	hiredman: but not enabled by default.
18:07	kgrad5	Chousuke, I don't think it's planned for jdk7
18:07	kgrad5	atleast, I couldn't find it while googling
18:18	Chousuke	invokedynamic is going into JDK7
18:18	Chousuke	I wonder if that implies TCO
18:18	hiredman	nope
18:25	dude	hmm, having trouble getting 'La Clojure' REPL to work in IntelliJ
18:34	aravind	I am trying to get the basic get compojure to work as a war example to run in my jetty setup, but so far I haven't had much luck. I keep getting the "java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: clojure/lang/IFn" error whenever I hit the app. Other apps deployed in the same jetty instance work. Also, I have -Djetty.class.path pointing to clojure.jar.
18:35	technomancy	aravind: generally we are a pretty peaceful folk in here. I don't know if we can help you with your wars.
18:36	hiredman	har har har
18:36	aravind	hehe
18:37	hiredman	aravind: where did you get your clojure.jar?
18:37	aravind	hiredman: built it
18:37	hiredman	aravind: ant clean, then rebuild it
18:38	aravind	I did.
18:38	hiredman	Oh
18:38	aravind	rebuilt contribs, and compojure as well.
18:44	dude	looks like La Clojure is having trouble finding clojure: Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: clojure/lang/Repl
18:44	dude	I thought clojure was bundled with the plugin?
18:59	mrsolo	psft.. can't get :require to work...
19:00	hiredman	how are you trying to use it?
19:00	mrsolo	in ns
19:00	mrsolo	clj is in classpath
19:00	hiredman	...
19:00	mrsolo	but repl keeps complaining
19:00	replaca	technomancy: I was sorry we didn't get to hang out some more last night :-(
19:00	technomancy	replaca: yeah, too much good stuff going on to take in at once!
19:01	mrsolo	hmm nopaste is gone? duh...
19:01	technomancy	mrsolo: lisppaste is better anyway.
19:02	replaca	technomancy: I know. I felt like a host at a party who never has time to talk with the guests!
19:02	dreish	gist has clojure color-coding.
19:02	technomancy	replaca: thanks a bunch for getting hosting for that. seemed like just about the perfect size.
19:02	replaca	technomancy: any bigger and it would have exploded. Very fun though!
19:03	mrsolo	ok http://paste.lisp.org/display/81384 is the code...pretty simple
19:03	mrsolo	repl complains it can't find zimbra.qa.util/unique
19:04	mrsolo	util.clj is in zimbra/qa/util so... should have found it eh?
19:05	hiredman	mrsolo: you want something like (:require [zimbra.qa.util :as util])
19:05	hiredman	then you call stuff as (util/whatever ...)
19:06	hiredman	there is also :use
19:06	mrsolo	nice shortand
19:06	hiredman	which works more like what you are trying to do with :require
19:06	hiredman	but :require is better
19:06	mrsolo	ya still doesn't work.. look like slime repl can't find it.. of course
19:07	mrsolo	if i manually load util.clj into repl it works...
19:07	technomancy	replaca: didn't match the face to the nick until you said something about the meeting in here and I did a whois. =)
19:07	mrsolo	i though :require is suppsoed to search through classpath?
19:07	technomancy	I'll be sure to bring a name tag next time.
19:07	replaca	technomancy: cool. I had matched all names for you cause I had to do the attendee list
19:08	replaca	now I gotta see if I can pull a video together
19:09	mrsolo	http://paste.lisp.org/display/81385 <-class path
19:10	technomancy	mrsolo: also nice: (System/getProperty "java.class.path")
19:11	mrsolo	very nice
19:19	mrsolo	ah found the user error :-)
19:23	dude	guess I'll go back to clo-jet for a bit; 'la clojure' REPL refusing to work
19:41	dnolen	anyone know a good image manipulation library for Java?
19:42	gnuvince_	JImageManipulationLibrary
19:42	gnuvince_	(kidding, I don't know)
19:42	ataggart	lol
19:43	ataggart	How do you guys pull down and include the clojure contrib stuff when working on a project?
19:45	technomancy	ataggart: I use Maven for all dependencies.
19:45	technomancy	though that might be overkill if your only dep is contrib
19:45	hiredman	I don't use a contrib much
19:46	ataggart	I'm just starting to prototype something out in IDEA, and thought there might be a better way than just browsing to google code and downloading the file(s)
19:46	hiredman	oh
19:47	hiredman	you do an svn checkout
19:47	hiredman	build a jar
19:47	ataggart	ah ok. didnt occur to me that it was really just one but buildable project
19:47	ataggart	*one big
20:04	tayssir	Hi! I just installed Clojure via emacs elpa. Does anyone know why (use 'clojure.contrib.pprint) throws ClassNotFoundException for clojure.contrib.pprint.PrettyWriter?
20:06	technomancy	tayssir: ah! it looks like pprint requires contrib to be AOT-compiled
20:06	technomancy	currently M-x clojure-install doesn't do that
20:06	tayssir	Ah, thanks! I'll figure out how to do that...
20:07	technomancy	tayssir: I will fix that; in the mean time you can just run "ant -Dclojure.jar=<...path to clojure.jar..>" to do it manually
20:07	technomancy	when I wrote it there were only one or two contrib libs that required AOT
20:09	tayssir	technomancy: Hmm, I ran ant that way, when I googled for a fix... Am I supposed to do something special afterwards?
20:10	technomancy	tayssir: ant needs the -Dclojure.jar= argument; did you use that?
20:10	tayssir	Yep... but in case I totally missed the point, let me try again... ;)
20:10	technomancy	tayssir: you could try M-x slime-restart-inferior-lisp, but that shouldn't be necessary.
20:12	technomancy	tayssir: oh, of course... only contrib's src/ is on the classpath
20:12	technomancy	will need to add its classes/ directory
20:13	tayssir	Aahhh... thanks, I'll add classes/ to the classpath.
20:13	technomancy	tayssir: or the contrib jar; either will do
20:19	tayssir	technomancy: Awesome, can't live without cl-format. ;)
20:20	technomancy	tayssir: is that the one that uses ~A as a placeholder?
20:21	tayssir	technomancy: Yep.
20:22	technomancy	no accounting for taste I guess. =)
20:27	tayssir	It's ugly, but I like its various tricks, and I'm not too familiar with what Java has. So, to get a comma-delimited string "1, 2, 3" you can do (cl-format true "~{~A~^, ~}~%" [1 2 3]).
20:27	tayssir	This doesn't seem supported yet, but you should be able to get roman numerals like:
20:27	tayssir	(cl-format true "~@r" 1234) ==> "MCCXXXIV"
20:27	tayssir	and "old-style" roman numerals (where fours and nines are IIII and VIII):
20:27	tayssir	(cl-format true "~:@r" 1234) ==> "MCCXXXIIII"
20:28	technomancy	,(use 'clojure.contrib.str-utils)
20:28	clojurebot	nil
20:29	technomancy	,(str-join ", " [1 2 3])
20:29	clojurebot	"1, 2, 3"
20:29	technomancy	bit more readable
20:32	tayssir	Hrmm, good point. I'm curious how I'll look back on cl-format after getting used to the idiomatic Java/Clojurey ways...
20:32	quidnunc	str-join join can't do something like 1, 2 and 3.
20:33	quidnunc	format can.
20:38	Chouser	it may be a question of whether it's worth learning another language or not. You get succinctness in exchange for a whole new vocabular, syntax and grammar.
20:39	Chouser	,(#(apply str (interpose ", " (concat (drop-last %) [(str "and " (last %))]))) [1 2 3])
20:39	clojurebot	"1, 2, and 3"
20:42	mrsolo	java -cp testme.jar zimbra.qa.hello.main <- this doesn;t work but
20:42	mrsolo	java -cp testme.jar clojure.main -i "@zimbra/qa/hello.clj" -e "(zimbra.qa.hello/main) <- this does... compiled wrong?
20:45	quidnunc	Chouser: Point taken. (And of course the example was only to illustrate that some things are "easier" to do with format. Two str-joins would have worked also).
20:49	tayssir	For anything more complex than I'm used to, I just look up cl-format at: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/a-few-format-recipes.html ;)
20:49	tayssir	,(use 'clojure.contrib.pprint)
20:49	clojurebot	nil
20:49	tayssir	,(cl-format nil "This place houses ~r ~:*(~d) famil~:@p" 1)
20:49	clojurebot	"This place houses one (1) family"
20:49	tayssir	,(cl-format nil "This place houses ~r ~:*(~d) famil~:@p" 2)
20:49	clojurebot	"This place houses two (2) families"
20:49	cp2	thats neat
20:50	dmiles_afk	i need something that will consify all the fields of an instance.. and store the type.. so later on i can restore teh object
20:51	dmiles_afk	listify i guess
20:51	ataggart	,(doc bean)
20:51	clojurebot	"([x]); Takes a Java object and returns a read-only implementation of the map abstraction based upon its JavaBean properties."
20:51	dmiles_afk	i guess i can write two functions .. ToObject and FromObject
20:51	dmiles_afk	oh cool
21:01	dmiles_afk	,(["i am a string"]);
21:01	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: LazilyPersistentVector
21:02	dmiles_afk	can you show me a little example in here?
21:03	ataggart	of?
21:03	dmiles_afk	beanifying an object (i icked string becaseu it wasnt primitive)
21:03	ataggart	you didn't use the bean function
21:03	dmiles_afk	oh oops i need the fn name ';P
21:03	ataggart	(bean "hello")
21:04	ataggart	,(bean "hello")
21:04	clojurebot	{:empty false, :class java.lang.String, :bytes #<byte[] [B@101d3e4>}
21:04	dmiles_afk	right on.. thanks
21:04	ataggart	the ([x]) notation means the function only has one arity
21:04	ataggart	(doc +)
21:04	clojurebot	"([] [x] [x y] [x y & more]); Returns the sum of nums. (+) returns 0."
21:05	ataggart	~google arity
21:05	clojurebot	First, out of 99900 results is:
21:05	clojurebot	Arity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
21:05	clojurebot	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arity
21:06	dmiles_afk	i see. i guess i am going to need something a little more agressive .. alsmost a serizatino format.. then convert to lists
21:06	dmiles_afk	almost a serialization
21:07	ataggart	what problem are you trying to solve?
21:07	dmiles_afk	but (bean ...) is still very nice
21:08	dmiles_afk	well i al writting a video game library that executes the scenes in secondlife.. intiallally you can capture a current simlatuator state.. i am wanting to print the simulator state into a format that i can instance offline
21:09	ataggart	anyone using intellij/La Clojure around that can tell me howto get clojure-contrib.jar to be picked up by the repl?
21:09	dmiles_afk	initially i capture the scene state.. and going to write out things in macros later like (make-prim... [the data format])
21:10	dmiles_afk	the prim object has about 200 properties
21:11	dmiles_afk	i run clojure in .NET thru IKVM .. most of the code impl is in C#
21:11	dmiles_afk	but amazingly it all works
21:12	ataggart	have you looked at the CLR port?
21:13	dmiles_afk	i am tepted to.. since the primitive typs are in java.lang.* namespace
21:13	dmiles_afk	tempted to
21:14	dmiles_afk	useing the IKVM version lnds to some confusions down the road.. so i might switch over.. but want sure how much attention the code was going to get
21:14	dmiles_afk	for the Clojure .NET
21:15	dmiles_afk	i been using DotLisp for a while and that was pretty neat
21:15	dmiles_afk	i think it was clojure's prototyp
21:23	dmiles_afk	i almost could go back and forth to object<->XML using a typical java file.. and make cljore call the To/From Object
21:24	dmiles_afk	i almost could go back and forth to object<->XML using a typical java lib
21:24	dmiles_afk	and still let clojure do the control logic i gaues ans at least do a (make-prim "<xml...>")
21:36	ataggart	how do we force AOT in contrib so that I stop getting "java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.contrib.pprint.PrettyWriter (pprint.clj:0)"
21:38	durka42	ant -Dclojure.jar=/path/to/clojure.jar
21:39	ataggart	k thx
22:01	ataggart	so is anyone else not able to build contrib?
22:01	ataggart	[java] Caused by: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: get-method in this context
22:02	durka42	is this the latest checkout?
22:02	durka42	mine built
22:02	ataggart	yup, just pulled from trunk
22:02	durka42	hmm...
22:02	durka42	try just doing an ant clean to clear it out?
22:03	durka42	get-method is in core though...
22:03	durka42	do you have the latest core?
22:03	ataggart	I'm pointing to 1.0.0
22:04	ataggart	you mean clojrue core, right?
22:04	durka42	yes
22:04	ataggart	top of the stack trace:
22:04	ataggart	[java] Compiling clojure.contrib.accumulators to /Users/ataggart/IdeaProjects/contrib/classes
22:04	ataggart	[java] java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: get-method in this context (accumulators.clj:60)
22:06	durka42	and what was the command?
22:06	ataggart	ant -Dclojure.jar="../proto/lib/clojure.jar"
22:07	ataggart	builds the jars tho which I find odd
22:07	durka42	and that path is correct?
22:07	durka42	yes this should AOT compile everything and stuff it all in clojure-contrib.jar
22:07	ataggart	yup
22:07	ataggart	path is correct otherwise we wouldnt see the clojure stuff in the stack
22:07	ataggart	e.g. Compile
22:17	ataggart	ok, so it turns out the "clojure.jar" that comes bundled with the IDEA plugin is not quite right
22:17	ataggart	I pulled down the 1.0.0 jar from google code and everything works fine
22:28	dude	ataggart: thanks, that did it
22:28	ataggart	?
22:29	dude	it's odd, they were the same size; I didn't check the CRC though
22:29	dude	using the clojure-1.0.0.jar for IDEA
22:29	ataggart	ah
22:29	ataggart	yeah, and I haven't figured out how to swap the jar out
22:30	ataggart	I'm new to IDEA
22:30	ataggart	can't figure out where the plugin is hiding
22:30	dude	I think I was complicating things in my case: I had clo-jet installed and a clojure facet already in my projct when I switched to 'la clojure'
22:31	dude	hmm, on OS X it's in ~/Library/Application Support/IntelliJIDEA80/clojure-plugin/lib
22:32	ataggart	ah thanks
22:35	ataggart	ok this is wierd
22:35	ataggart	I just compiled contrib using the jar in the plugin, and it worked fine
22:35	ataggart	but using the jar that was dropped in my lib dir when creating a project didnt