#clojure – 2009-05-25

2009-05-25

00:41	duck1123	I still can't get my (serve-file) working in compojure for me.
01:04	duck1123	is anyone around that's a wiz with classpaths?
01:05	duck1123	I'm using maven to build a compojure webapp, I need to figure out how to make it so the root that serve-file looks in is the webapp's directory, and not the project root
01:15	memoize	yes! osx, x11/xmonad, emacs, clojure, and slime! anyone have this setup?
01:24	duck1123	I've got the last 3, if that helps. :)
01:29	memoize	duck1123: does doc lookup, autocomplete, work in clojure slime?
01:32	duck1123	when in slime itself?
01:32	duck1123	let me check
01:32	replaca	memoize: everyone's results seem to vary. doc lookup works for me but not autocomplete. Others claim to have gotten autocomplete to work as well
01:33	duck1123	memoize: yeah, that's working for me
01:33	duck1123	i have to hit tab for it to work
01:33	memoize	once i get everything working, i'll freeze it all in github as submodules :)
01:34	duck1123	that's what I was doing, but I just switched to 100% maven
01:34	duck1123	I think I'm going to publish my maven forks of all the clojure libs I use
01:35	memoize	publish or perish
01:36	duck1123	I also think the clojure-maven-plugin needs some work. It requires too much config
01:41	duck1123	I wish slime could autocomplete namespaces for me in the fn that accept a ns symbol
04:49	AWizzArd	Was there a change in the latest version? As always I used ant to compile the sources, but this time I got like 50 warnings, such as [javac] Warning: clojure\lang\LazySeq.java modified in the future.
04:52	AWizzArd	I also got a strange IllegalStateException: Var clojure.core/if is unbound. Any ideas?
04:55	jdz	AWizzArd: i'd suggest doing clean, then find . -type f \| xargs touch and then try again
04:56	AWizzArd	it was a fresh checkout
04:56	AWizzArd	Did you try the latest version?
04:56	AWizzArd	When I try the 1.0 then I can do in the repl: (clojure.core/if 1 2 3) ==> 2
04:57	jdz	i did not. but your symptoms clearly are file-timestamps-in-the-future kinf
04:57	jdz	*kind
04:57	AWizzArd	But when I try the current Alpha, then (clojure.core/if 1 2 3) ==> Exception
04:57	AWizzArd	jdz: ah ok, I can try to do that trick with touch, thanks
04:58	jdz	is your computer's date set correctly?
04:59	jdz	i'm at revision 1372 and i updated last week
04:59	jdz	last friday to be precise
04:59	AWizzArd	it was a windows program that changed the timestamps
05:00	AWizzArd	just figured it out
05:00	jdz	meh, winblows. the find/touch might be a problem there...
05:01	AWizzArd	cygwin is my friend :-)
05:01	AWizzArd	anyway, can you please do (clojure.core/if 1 2 3) in the repl?
05:03	jdz	i get "No such var" exception
05:03	jdz	but if is a special form...
05:08	jdz	but it clearly was in clojure.core namespace before
05:09	jdz	looks like it's not var anymore
05:14	AWizzArd	in the 1.0 it works
05:14	AWizzArd	in fresher checkouts it throws an Exception, which results in a problem for users of clojure.contrib.test-is
05:17	eevar2	fresher checkouts of the 1.0 branch?
05:18	eevar2	or trunk?
05:18	AWizzArd	svn trunk
05:21	jdz	,(list (ns-resolve 'clojure.core 'if) (ns-resolve 'clojure.core 'map) (ns-resolve 'user 'if) (ns-resolve 'user 'map))
05:21	clojurebot	(#'clojure.core/if #'clojure.core/map nil #'clojure.core/map)
05:21	jdz	,clojure-version
05:21	clojurebot	{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 1, :incremental 0, :qualifier "alpha"}
05:22	jdz	i'm pretty sure that nil should not be there
05:34	AWizzArd	true, that nil looks not right
05:50	hiredman	jdz: after the lazy-seq change if was change to a macro using the if* special form, this was reverted pre-1.0
06:08	jdz	hiredman: but it's still a problem that it is impossible to use fully qualified if special form
06:09	jdz	clojure.core/if that is
06:10	jdz	and i'm pretty sure if is not the only one here
06:11	jdz	like, def has the same problems
07:02	jdz	git bisect tells me that rev1363 is the culprit...
07:02	jdz	now should check if it's really the case
07:08	eliantor	hi i'm trying to install clojure-contrib...
07:09	eliantor	if i use clojure release it doesn't compile
07:09	eliantor	if i use the svn snapshot it does
07:09	alinp	hi
07:09	alinp	set is returning an ordered set ?
07:09	eliantor	but then i miss functions from clojure, such as lazy-cons
07:09	eliantor	for example
07:09	alinp	.(set (list 4 4 5 3 2 4))
07:10	alinp	,(set (list 4 4 5 3 2 4))
07:10	clojurebot	#{2 3 4 5}
07:10	alinp	,(doc set)
07:10	clojurebot	"([coll]); Returns a set of the distinct elements of coll."
07:13	leafw	alinp: use sorted-set
07:13	leafw	,(doc sorted-set)
07:13	clojurebot	"([& keys]); Returns a new sorted set with supplied keys."
07:14	alinp	leafw: why to use sorted-set if set is returning them sorted ? :)
07:14	alinp	it's a coincidence ?
07:14	leafw	alinp: yes
07:14	alinp	I see
07:14	alinp	thanks
07:14	leafw	yw
07:15	leafw	,(set 1 2 3 5 -1 0 10 6 2 2 4 3 3)
07:15	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: core$set
07:15	leafw	,(set [1 2 3 5 -1 0 10 6 2 2 4 3 3])
07:15	clojurebot	#{0 1 2 3 4 5 6 10 -1}
07:15	leafw	,(sorted-set [1 2 3 5 -1 0 10 6 2 2 4 3 3])
07:15	clojurebot	#{[1 2 3 5 -1 0 10 6 2 2 4 3 3]}
07:16	leafw	doesn't work the same way
07:16	leafw	,(sorted-set 1 2 3 5 -1 0 10 6 2 2 4 3 3)
07:16	clojurebot	#{-1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 10}
07:16	leafw	rhickey: is there any reason why set and sorted-set don't accept the same kind of arguments?
07:18	rhickey	,(doc hash-set)
07:18	clojurebot	"([] [& keys]); Returns a new hash set with supplied keys."
07:18	eliantor	,(doc lazy-cons)
07:18	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: lazy-cons in this context
07:18	rhickey	,(doc sorted-set)
07:18	clojurebot	"([& keys]); Returns a new sorted set with supplied keys."
07:18	eliantor	,(doc frest)
07:18	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: frest in this context
07:18	leafw	I see, has-set is the equivalent of sorted-set.
07:19	leafw	s/has-set/hash-set/
07:19	leafw	,(doc vec)
07:19	clojurebot	"([coll]); Creates a new vector containing the contents of coll."
07:20	leafw	so "set" is more akin to "vec", working on a collection.
07:20	rhickey	leafw: right
07:20	leafw	thanks.
07:23	AWizzArd	rhickey: in 1372 I get an exception for (clojure.core/if 1 2 3). That is a bit unfortunate because contribs test-is doesn't work anymore.
07:26	jdz	git bisect tells me that r1356 has broken the clojure.core/if thing
07:27	eliantor	is there any difference between next and rest?
07:27	jdz	eliantor: next returns an object, rest -- a sequence
07:28	eliantor	jdz: so for example (rest [2 3 4]) is a vector?
07:28	jdz	no, a sequence
07:29	jdz	hmm, scratch my comment about next vs. rest
07:29	eliantor	jdz: oh i meant (next [2 3 4])
07:31	jdz	eliantor: as far as i understand from documentation, next and rest will differ when given a sequence of one element left
07:31	jdz	next allows nil-punning
07:31	jdz	(anybody correct me if i'm wrong please)
07:32	eliantor	,(next [1])
07:32	clojurebot	nil
07:32	hoeck	jdz: I think you're right
07:32	eliantor	,(rest [1])
07:32	clojurebot	()
07:32	eliantor	ok
07:33	hoeck	and rest is lazy, it doesn't evaluate the first argument of the rest sequence
07:34	jdz	hoeck: next does the same (or so it seems to me from doc)
07:34	jdz	oh, nvm me
07:35	jdz	first != first of rest
07:35	hoeck	yeah, but it evaluates the first and the second argument of a given sequence
07:35	hoeck	(I mean next)
07:38	jdz	on the clojure.core/if note: shouldn't (clojure.core/def x 42) work?
07:39	AWizzArd	jdz: I would spontaneously answer that both should work, if and def.
07:40	AWizzArd	but none of them does
07:40	AWizzArd	It's a bit difficult when macros expand to if/def.
07:40	jdz	well, at least the clojure.core/if worked before
07:40	AWizzArd	true
07:48	rhickey	AWizzArd: why would it refer explicitly to clojure.core/if?
07:49	jdz	i can imagine making a namespace that does not refer to clojure.core
07:49	jdz	but that is not the case here
07:51	rhickey	AWizzArd: ant -Dclojure.jar=../clojure/trunk/clojure.jar test - 0 failures, 0 errors
07:52	Chousuke	,`if
07:52	clojurebot	if
07:53	Chousuke	hmm.
08:10	AWizzArd	rhickey: I do a fresh checkout of clojure, compile it with ant. Then I make a fresh checkout of contrib and compile it. Then I run the tests as you suggested. I got hundreds of error messages.
08:10	rhickey	AWizzArd: I just did that
08:11	rhickey	contrib 843
08:11	rhickey	clojure 1373
08:12	AWizzArd	I tried 1372. Will now try 1373
08:19	AWizzArd	well, maybe some hundred tests simply don't pass in contrib
08:20	rhickey	what is your recipe?
08:20	AWizzArd	I'll now check if tests in my code still fail with the clojure.core/if problem.
08:21	AWizzArd	rhickey: do all tests pass for you? (clojure-contrib)
08:21	jdz	they pass for me too
08:21	rhickey	AWizzArd: yes, all tests pass
08:22	AWizzArd	for me clojure passes correctly, but not contrib
08:22	clojurebot	for is not a loop
08:22	AWizzArd	and test_datalog again works perfectly
08:24	rhickey	AWizzArd: how do you invoke the tests?
08:27	AWizzArd	ant -Dclojure.jar=clojure.jar test
08:27	AWizzArd	I copied the clojure.jar into the contrib repo which I just checked out
08:29	rhickey	AWizzArd: same recipe works fine here
08:31	AWizzArd	strange
08:35	AWizzArd	And my own unit tests also don't work anymore - I get exceptions that "Var clojure.core/if is unbound." This does not happen when I use 1.0
08:37	AWizzArd	ah no, now my own tests do work, used the wrong file. Anyway, still strange that my contrib tests don't work.
10:33	blbrown	can you define constructors for 'proxy' syntax. E.g. I get the error. No matching ctor found for class
10:36	jdz	blbrown: did you pass correct arguments using the second parameter?
10:40	blbrown	didn't pass any, that is probably it
10:44	blbrown	jdz, am I doing this right. This is the clojure and similar java code: http://paste.lisp.org/display/80787
10:45	jdz	it appears that you should be passing an instance of Shell, not the class named Shell
10:46	blbrown	jdz: yep, that works.
12:35	dnolen	is future the best way to run a async one-off function?
14:08	alrex021	I am trying to give Incanter lib a try. How do I get my Emacs env to include the necessary jars on classpath so I can give it a try?
14:08	alrex021	Or for that matter, how do I include any jars so clojure REPL allows me to import, use them
14:09	dnolen	pass classpaths to the repl when you start it up with -cp.
14:09	dnolen	are you using Slime?
14:11	alrex021	Yes, I am using slime in Auqamacs to me exact
14:11	dnolen	(setq swank-clojure-extra-classpaths (list "path/to/some.jar")) in your .emacs file.
14:11	alrex021	so no command line so I can pass -cp like regular java command line call
14:12	alrex021	ahh, got it. thanks
15:34	bradford	how do i force an integer division to produce a float rather than a ratio?
15:35	Chouser	,(float (/ 5 2))
15:35	clojurebot	2.5
15:35	Chouser	,(/ 5.0 2)
15:35	clojurebot	2.5
15:35	Chouser	,(/ (float 5) 2)
15:35	clojurebot	2.5
15:35	Chouser	take your pick
15:35	bradford	cool - so since i am dealing with symbols, I jsut ahve to float the result as in your first case
15:36	bradford	thx
15:36	Chouser	in that case, the ratio is being produced and then converted to a float.
15:36	Chouser	afaik.
15:36	bradford	so u are saying if i float one of the symbols first it is more efficient?
15:37	bradford	as in your last example (where 5 and 2 are replaced with x and y)
15:37	Chouser	I don't know that to be true. Perhaps I shouldn't have said anything.
15:37	bradford	hehe
15:38	Chouser	you've got an x and y that are locals?
15:38	sopel	what's the clojure way to make writes to a file descriptor atomic?
15:38	bradford	yes
15:38	Chouser	bradford: are they primitive ints, or Integers?
15:38	Chouser	bradford: and does performance actually matter?
15:38	Chouser	sopel: however Java does it, I suppose.
15:39	bradford	its not really a big deal for now becasue this computation is happening on so much data that i'm not worried about mico optimizations to algorithms yet
15:39	hiredman	atomic filesystem writes is a difficult problem, and generally should be handled by the filesystem
15:39	Chouser	bradford: ok, so do whatever looks clearest, makes the most sense.
15:40	Chouser	probably (float) around the outside so it's clear that's what you're getting.
15:40	bradford	just left the float on the outside ;-)
15:41	sopel	hiredman; i mean i have an open file and i want multiple writers to append data to it.
15:41	sopel	so i guess i'll just use java locks
15:41	Chouser	oh!
15:41	Chousuke	you can use an agent :/
15:41	Chouser	sopel: you just want to synchronize writes within one process?
15:41	sopel	yea
15:41	hiredman	sopel: that is not atomic writes
15:41	hiredman	that is serializing writes
15:41	sopel	ok, sorry.
15:41	Chouser	sopel: yeah, what Chousuke said. and agent
15:42	Chouser	an agent
15:43	Chouser	rhickey: streams had that at one point, didn't they?
15:43	rhickey	chunked seqs work with blocks of data internally, amortizing the laziness and allocation costs
15:43	clojurebot	rhickey is a T-1000 sent from the future
15:43	Chousuke	:P
15:44	Chousuke	rhickey: doing this in git? :)
15:44	rhickey	this is still the pull model of seqs, in fact chunked seqs are seqs, support first.rest, and have not of the stateflness that streams had, plus they are faster
15:44	rhickey	none of the statefulness
15:44	Chouser	sounds nice
15:45	rhickey	yeah, what happens is the blocks inside say, vectors, get processed directly
15:46	mich	hello there i just got a quick question if i don't want to use emacs or such which plugin is better/more stable : eclipse or netbeans?
15:46	rhickey	opens the door to defining the basic math ops on blocks (I had a prototype of that at one point), and then vectors of primitives. In the end game, the high level code using map/reduce/filter should be almost as fast as hand-written loops using primitive arrays + recur
15:46	rhickey	I am much happier with this than I was with streams.
15:47	rhickey	Chousuke: yes, in git - hopefully I'll be able to check it back in when I'm done :)
15:48	Chousuke	rhickey: well, you can always use git format-patch to export a whole bunch of patches.
15:48	rhickey	data structures that can support chunked seqs will return them by default from seq
15:48	Chousuke	if everything else fails :)
15:48	rhickey	I'll need names for chunked first/rest/next
15:50	rhickey	first+, rest+, next+ ?
15:51	rhickey	logically it is first-chunk, rest-after-the-first-chunk
15:51	hiredman	firsts rests nexts
15:52	Chouser	rest-after-the-first-chunk may return chunked or not?
15:53	rhickey	Chouser: right, chunkedSeqs are fully interoperable with ordinary seqs, can have a heterogeneous chain
15:54	Chouser	first-chunk and after-chunk?
15:54	rhickey	reduce of map of 1 million item vector is 2.5x faster with chunked seqs
15:55	Chouser	with no change in top-level code, right? wow.
15:55	Chouser	do rude blog posts motivate you?
15:55	rhickey	Chouser: tight now there is a separate map* and reduce*, but will become a branch in the map/reduce code
15:56	rhickey	Chouser: no, but I've been trying to reconcile the higher-level stuff with perf for a while, just never liked the streams. This has the potential to be stunningly fast, a much bigger deal than just merging stages
15:57	rhickey	block-oriented code can have much better cache behavior
15:57	mich	hello there! If anybody has possibly used the netbeans and eclipse plugin, could you please tell me which one is more "stable"- usable?
15:57	clojurebot	BUENOS DING DONG DIDDLY DIOS, fRaUline mich
15:58	hiredman	clojurebot: behave
15:58	clojurebot	Excuse me?
15:58	rhickey	I think 10-20x boost with vectors-of-primitives is possible
15:58	cp2	anyone see this? http://github.com/vii/teepeedee2/tree/master
15:58	rhickey	plus they will be safe
15:58	hiredman	oof, wow
15:59	rhickey	the best thing about this is that the chunked seqs are seqs, if someone doesn't want to bother to upgrade a seq fn of their own they can just ignore it
15:59	rhickey	but upgrading map/reduce/filter will be huge
16:00	rhickey	the gameplan is - chunked seq infrastructure, chunked seqs for all current data structures where they make sense, vectors of primitives, persistent T-trees for the sorted collections, math ops on chunks
16:01	gnuvince	Quick question to the guys who are/have been in IT: what do you do when the single server with all the company's data blows up and no backups are available?
16:01	rhickey	gnuvince: polish your resume?
16:01	marklar	gnuvince: what do you mean by 'blows up'?
16:02	marklar	but yeah, if you can't use a data recovery service, polish your resume :(
16:02	Chousuke	what do you mean there are no backups? :(
16:02	Chousuke	did they blow up too?
16:03	gnuvince	Chousuke: the boss thought a backup tape was too expensive
16:03	Chousuke	right.
16:03	gnuvince	And some hard drives are currently giving me weird errors
16:03	cp2	his fault then
16:03	hiredman	:(
16:04	gnuvince	We advised about this about a year ago, but I think we got the "current economic conditions" excuse.
16:04	gnuvince	Hopefully it's just a glitch
16:04	gnuvince	But my day's been pretty bad so far
16:05	lisppaste8	rhickey pasted "better lazy-seq recursion handling" at http://paste.lisp.org/+1QCG
16:05	mich	... ok either my question is too simple,or something like that...can anyone tell me please from personal experince which IDE plugin works better for clojure netbeans or eclipse?
16:06	rhickey	along the way to chunked seqs I enhanced lazy-seq you'll be able to write non-memory-retaining version like this
16:06	rhickey	^
16:06	cp2	mich: ive always liked enclojure (the netbeans plugin) better than others
16:06	cp2	by others i mean the eclipse one and la clojure for intellij idea
16:06	mich	ok so you have tried both i see
16:06	cp2	yeah
16:07	cp2	eclipse one briefly
16:07	mich	cp2: i saw little activity on the google site of the netbeans plugin, either its THAT good already .. bur why still alpha? hm but thx for advice i think i try that!
16:08	cp2	idk, it has some minor bugs
16:08	cp2	but imo its the best one so far
16:11	cp2	http://support.microsoft.com/kb/168702
16:11	cp2	hmmm
16:11	cp2	"If you move your mouse pointer continuously while the data is being returned to Microsoft Excel, the query may not fail. Do not stop moving the mouse until all the data has been returned to Microsoft Excel. "
16:17	rhickey	reduce+filter+map - 4x faster chunked
16:18	Chousuke	:)
16:32	gnuvince	rhickey: is that for the "regular" functions or the stream specific ones?
16:36	Chouser	,(let [foo nil] (when foo (.write foo "hi")))
16:36	clojurebot	java.lang.NullPointerException
16:37	Chouser	I get that in both 1.0.0 and 1371
16:38	Chouser	and 1373
16:39	Chouser	note that's a compile-time exception.
16:39	Chouser	,(let [foo nil] (fn [] (when foo (.write foo "hi"))))
16:39	clojurebot	java.lang.NullPointerException
17:36	kotarak	StartsWithK Bad news. Doing recursive build of contrib blows up my ant with OutOfMemory: PermGen space
17:37	StartsWithK	kotarak: hmm.. that should not happen
17:38	kotarak	StartsWithK: I can send you the patch and you can try. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
17:38	StartsWithK	kotarak: did you use ivy:buildlist to generate order of subant calls?
17:38	kotarak	StartsWithK: Yes.
17:38	StartsWithK	kotarak: sure, ksojat (gmail)
17:39	StartsWithK	i now have a simple ant wrapper, just pushed it on my cloak fork, ivy should be next
17:41	kotarak	Mail is away...
17:43	kotarak	StartsWithK: ant -f build-modular.xml publish-all-local
17:44	StartsWithK	kotarak: i will need lates contrib? and clojure 1.0.0?
17:45	kotarak	StartsWithK: you can modify the dependencies as you like. I'm not sure about the contrib revision.
17:45	kotarak	StartsWithK: one in toplevel ivy.xml, one in gen-modules.clj
17:46	kotarak	StartsWithK: I have contrib rev839
17:48	Anniepoo	somebody here willing to answer a noobie Clojure/IntelliJ question?
17:49	kotarak	Anniepoo: clojure is easy, IntelliJ might be more difficult....
17:49	kotarak	Anniepoo: just ask :)
17:50	Anniepoo	kk - I have a little Clojure program that brings up a swing window
17:51	Anniepoo	it's throwing a nullpointerexception when the window becomes visible
17:51	Anniepoo	to make sure it wasn't some stupid mistake I backported the code to Java, and that works fine
17:51	kotarak	Anniepoo: maybe you can post the offending code?
17:51	kotarak	lisppaste8: url
17:51	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
17:53	lisppaste8	Anniepoo pasted "brokennoobswinginclojure" at http://paste.lisp.org/+1QCL
17:53	chouser_	extra parens around let
17:54	chouser_	let returns whatever it's final expression (in this case 'println') returns
17:54	chouser_	println returns nil, so the let returns nil
17:54	Anniepoo	ok
17:54	chouser_	the parens around the let means it tries to call it's return value (nil) as a function.
17:55	Anniepoo	ah!
17:55	Anniepoo	thanks
17:55	Anniepoo	now, the debugger's useless for a stack trace. Is there a better way to debug than println's?
17:56	chouser_	you may be following an out of date tutorial. The java interop style is old-fashioned.
17:56	Anniepoo	possibly
17:56	StartsWithK	kotarak: i need to place ivy.jar in my ~/.ant/lib dir?
17:56	chouser_	I don't know about IntelliJ, but at most REPLs you can do (.printStackTrace *e) to see a stack trace.
17:56	lisppaste8	kotarak annotated #80805 "boinkbox for anniepoo" at http://paste.lisp.org/+1QCL#1
17:57	kotarak	StartsWithK: yes
17:57	kotarak	Anniepoo: as Chouser_ said: your style is oldfashioned. I annotated your paste. (see above)
17:58	chouser_	kotarak: that's not quite right...
17:58	Anniepoo	thanks
17:58	Anniepoo	not understanding
17:58	kotarak	There is a dot missing at the add. But otherwise it should work, no?
17:59	Anniepoo	(-> .getContentPane (add (JLabel. message) BorderLayout/CENTER))
17:59	Anniepoo	whats with the -> ??
17:59	Anniepoo	(y'all rock)
17:59	cp2	,(doc ->)
17:59	clojurebot	"([x form] [x form & more]); Threads the expr through the forms. Inserts x as the second item in the first form, making a list of it if it is not a list already. If there are more forms, inserts the first form as the second item in second form, etc."
17:59	kotarak	Anniepoo: (-> a f g h) <=> (h (g (f a)))
17:59	chouser_	that's a macro that turns (-> a b c) into (c (b a))
18:00	kotarak	Anniepoo: or in Java. (-> a f g h) <=> a.f().g().h()
18:00	chouser_	but since it's in a doto, the first expression (a) is coming from the doto's first expression.
18:00	kotarak	Ops
18:00	kotarak	Oh dear...
18:00	chouser_	kotarak: that may be just a tiny bit too clever. :-)
18:00	Anniepoo	yah, folks
18:00	kotarak	Anniepoo: Listen to chouser_ not me. It's too late today... :/
18:00	clojurebot	everyday is Rich Hickey Appreciation Day
18:01	Anniepoo	kk
18:02	Anniepoo	thanks
18:03	StartsWithK	kotarak: i get a build error http://paste.pocoo.org/show/119085/ something about auto-agents missing on classpath
18:03	lisppaste8	Chouser annotated #80805 "another boinkBox" at http://paste.lisp.org/+1QCL#2
18:03	StartsWithK	i think this may take a while
18:04	chouser_	Anniepoo: lots of ways to structure that of course, but these days it's generally preferred to use (.method instance arg1 arg2) for instance method calls
18:04	chouser_	...and (Classname/member) for static members
18:04	Anniepoo	ok
18:05	chouser_	Then if you want to mix in some 'doto' or -> usages to reduce repitition, that's up to you.
18:05	cp2	chouser_: you're all lowercase today, whats wrong? :(
18:05	Chouser	Messing around with the logging stuff
18:05	chouser_	don't mind me.
18:05	cp2	heh, i see
18:07	kotarak	StartsWithK: Hmm... my contrib has a auto_agent.clj....
18:08	StartsWithK	kotarak: this is 845, and auto-agent is there too
18:08	kotarak	hmm..
18:09	Anniepoo	If I want to get rid of the -> syntax, does doto bimd some sort of 'this'?
18:09	StartsWithK	there is no src/ dir in modules/auto-agent
18:09	StartsWithK	should there be one?
18:10	Chouser_	Anniepoo: I posted a version there with no ->
18:10	kotarak	Anniepoo: no, the doto thing will always be the first argument
18:10	kotarak	StartsWithK: no. The modules use the toplevel src dir
18:11	StartsWithK	no, wait, auto-agents is missing from 845
18:11	Anniepoo	thanks all, I'm beginning to get this
18:11	StartsWithK	i'll just get 839..
18:11	Anniepoo	monads here I come
18:11	Anniepoo	8cP
18:15	Anniepoo	dang, I can't find documentation of the -> form
18:15	kotarak	Anniepoo: type (doc ->) in a repl
18:16	kotarak	,(doc ->)
18:16	clojurebot	"([x form] [x form & more]); Threads the expr through the forms. Inserts x as the second item in the first form, making a list of it if it is not a list already. If there are more forms, inserts the first form as the second item in second form, etc."
18:35	bradford	how would i print output from my repl to a file? I am doing some analysis that dumps a big map.
18:36	bradford	I saw print-doc, but not sure what that is or how to use it
18:38	bradford	wait, that probably prints doc as in documenteion :-)
18:38	StartsWithK	bradford: you could use clojure-contrib spit (in duck-streams lib)
19:23	albino	majore request, can the released zip files create a directory and inflate all files into it. Something like clojure-1.0 would be fine.
19:45	durka42	is there a take-while analog to split-at?
19:45	Chouser_	,(doc split-with)
19:45	clojurebot	"([pred coll]); Returns a vector of [(take-while pred coll) (drop-while pred coll)]"
19:46	durka42	but it seems like the naive implementation does a lot more work than necessary
19:47	Chouser_	it'll run the pred twice on each item up to the split. is your pred expensive?
19:48	durka42	not really, i'm just micro-optimizing :)
19:59	dnolen	http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=625948, nice :)
20:00	dnolen	Chouser's clojure-jna on hacker news.
20:00	Chouser_	cute, ain't it? I wonder if anyone's used it for anything...
20:07	Chouser_	rhickey: thanks!
20:08	Chouser_	rhickey: do you want a 1.x patch for that?
20:09	Chouser_	ant
20:09	Chouser_	heh, sorry.
20:09	rhickey	Chouser_: sure
20:09	Chouser_	hm, actually, that doesn't really fix the problem.
20:09	rhickey	no?
20:10	Chouser_	This code should be legal, shouldn't it? (let [foo nil] (fn [] (when foo (.write foo "hi"))))
20:11	rhickey	You can't expect the compiler to know one way or the other if it's ok, but take away the "when foo" and what behavior would you want?
20:12	rhickey	runtime error otherwise
20:13	rhickey	which I can do, is this real code or an exercise :)
20:14	Chouser_	based on real code. I'm getting you something (slightly) less ridiculous.
20:14	rhickey	ok
20:14	Chouser_	(fn [] (loop [foo nil] (if foo (.write foo "hi") (recur (java.io.FileWriter. "tmp.txt")))))
20:14	rhickey	ah ok, hang on a sec
20:15	Chouser_	In my real code I type hinted foo to avoid the error.
20:16	Chouser_	actually, that's really close to me real code. The loop cycles through several files, writing to each. But I don't know the first file until the first time through the loop.
20:17	rhickey	I didn't consider loop's rebinding ability
20:17	Chouser_	I'll probably want this hinted anyway, I suppose.
20:18	rhickey	right, but I can't disallow due to loop
20:19	rhickey	so there will be a reflection warning
20:20	rhickey	fyi, I've been thinking about the chunked seqs for weeks, not a response to negative publicity :)
20:23	Chouser_	:-) Well, I chose the word motivated on purpose. That's different than inspired or instructed.
20:23	rhickey	totally unrelated
20:26	rhickey	I find these micro-bechmarks tedious, but the big-picture issue of making the simplest high-level code perform well is interesting - I'd love for people to use map/filter/reduce with impunity
20:30	rhickey	still struggling with names for chunked rest/next, after-chunk isn't quite it :)
20:30	rhickey	a uniform pre/suffix would be great
20:32	rhickey	I guess chunked-first, chunked-rest, chunked-next fit the bill, if somewhat clunky
20:33	rhickey	an alternative to "chunk" also welcome, considered blocks, but blocked has totally different connotation
20:34	Chousuke	slice? mmh.
20:34	slashus2	glob?
20:35	rhickey	it has to work as an adjective for seq
20:35	rhickey	there are regular seqs and ____ seqs
20:36	Chousuke	partition is too long I suppose :/
20:36	slashus2	dollop lump?
20:36	technomancy	there's precedence for using *-ed names for functions that are similar with a twist, though that may go too far in the brevity vs clarity tradeoff
20:38	rhickey	technomancy: I was totally there with * for a while when the design allowed for empty chunks in the sequence, now it doesn't and * makes less sense (to me)
20:38	rhickey	seqn/restn/nextn ?
20:39	liebke	I like seqn/restn/nextn
20:39	technomancy	reminds me a bit too much of CL
20:39	slashus2	What does the n represent?
20:39	Chousuke	a chunk of n items? :P
20:40	rhickey	slashus2: more than one
20:40	technomancy	though you could certainly do worse
20:40	Chousuke	rest+?
20:41	rhickey	Chousuke: I mentioned + earlier, not sure they convey anything (not that * or n do strongly)
20:41	cp2	so, i dont mean to be... annoying
20:41	cp2	but are there plans for a better compiler?
20:42	cp2	because i think its pretty silly that the current setup doesnt optimize some things
20:42	cp2	or, a lot of things
20:42	cp2	i guess thats due in part to javac
20:42	Chousuke	the current compiler will get rewritten in clojure eventually
20:42	rhickey	cp2: optimization should never be a first priority, and it's still early days
20:42	cp2	because i know javac doesnt optimize much at all
20:42	slashus2	frame-seq/frame-rest/frame-next
20:43	cp2	rhickey: of course, and im glad more focus is being placed on the language =)
20:43	cp2	and Chousuke that sounds good
20:43	rhickey	cp2: but HotSpot does, a lot
20:43	cp2	rhickey: oh yeah, i know
20:44	Chousuke	I like the frame name.
20:44	rhickey	so, when they get more escape analysis in place it will obviate much of the boxing analysis I would waste my time on now
20:45	cp2	sounds good
20:46	rhickey	other than that, things are so simple, architectural things (like the chunked seqs we are discussing) yield much more bang for the buck than micro-optimization
20:47	ataggart	being late to the party, what problem was the "chunked seq" addressing?
20:48	rhickey	so there's a micro way to look at boxing, each local and its use etc, then there's a macro view that says, the platform requires objects, so let's amortize the allocation over a whole buffer of primitives
21:03	rhickey	ataggart: chunked seqs are about maximizing the performance of the high-level seq fns like map/reduce/filter
21:03	ataggart	very well. do you imagine this would be a transparent optimization, or one requiring the calling of different functions?
21:04	rhickey	also opening the door to math ops that work on chunks of primitives
21:04	rhickey	transparent for the most part, also some extra fns that let you, e.g. map a chunk-aware fn over chunks
21:05	ataggart	ahh yes the old (time (+ 1 (+ 2 3)) < (time (+ 1 2 3)) critique I've been reading about
21:05	cp2	heh
21:05	rhickey	and making the math ops chunk-aware
21:05	cp2	thats what founded my question ^
21:05	rhickey	won't do anything at all for (+ 1 2 3)
21:05	cp2	but i do realise that clojure is still a young language, lots of room for improvement
21:06	rhickey	much more about making (mapn + v1 v2 v3) crank
21:08	rhickey	because if you care about the perf of a small expr, it must be because you have to run it over a lot of numbers - where are they? what is the pipeline?
21:08	ataggart	agreed entirely