#clojure – 2009-05-17

2009-05-17

02:22	Serkan	hi
02:25	stuhood	heya
02:27	Serkan	what's the version of asm bundled with clojure 1.0, and is it a modified copy?
02:29	hiredman	~def clojure.asm.ClassWriter
02:30	stuhood	according to SVN, it hasn't been modified since Dec 2007
02:31	hiredman	which is maybe around the time the switch to google code happened?
02:32	danlarkin_	2007?
02:32	Serkan	any maintainers arounmd?
02:33	hiredman	oh
02:33	hiredman	right 2007
02:35	hiredman	Serkan: I am kind of curious, why are you asking about asm?
02:35	stuhood	Serkan: this thread is right before the check-in of ASM, and it implies that 3.0 is in use: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/ccfb84854d79809f/758ba8979f43578d?lnk=gst&q=asm&pli=1
02:53	Serkan	hiredman: I'm a Gentoo trying to package clojure
02:53	hiredman	and you want to split out clojure.asm.*?
02:53	Serkan	I'll use the system asm library if the bundled one isn't a modified version
02:54	Serkan	ah the package structure is different as well :(
02:54	hiredman	Serkan: as rhickey mentions in that google group posting, a lot of projects use asm, so to avoid conflicts
02:55	hiredman	I would just grab the zip file, extract clojure.jar and forget about it
02:56	Serkan	hiredman, stuhood thanks for the pointers
02:56	stuhood	no problem... glad to see Clojure making it into Gentoo
03:00	Serkan	though I need to ask the others if they're OK with bundled asm.
03:05	cads_	are you going to bundle bash startup scripts and such?
03:07	Serkan	cads_: ?
03:07	Serkan	was that for me
03:07	cads_	yeah, I was just wondering about how clojure will be packaged in gentoo
03:08	cads_	I've been thinking about making a deb
03:08	Serkan	I'm making a luancher that runs clojure.lang.Repl
03:09	danlarkin_	Serkan: clojure.lang.Repl is old and busted, use clojure.main
03:09	danlarkin_	Serkan: check out http://code.google.com/p/clojure-contrib/source/browse/trunk/launchers/bash/clj-env-dir for a good example
03:14	Serkan	danlarkin_: I see. I guess I found this in homepage
03:19	Serkan	danlarkin_: fixed http://overlays.gentoo.org/proj/java/changeset/7762
03:20	danlarkin_	Serkan: cool :)
04:37	unlink	Bah. No UNIX sockets in Java?
04:37	stuhood	the api isn't identical, but you can use raw sockets
04:38	unlink	What do you mean "raw"?
04:38	unlink	As in TCP/IP?
04:38	stuhood	no, sorry, not sure what i meant
04:38	stuhood	http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/net/Socket.html
04:38	p_l	raw sockets usually mean directly writing to device...
04:39	unlink	Yeah, those look like TCP/IP sockets.
04:40	markusgustavsson	I don't think java supports raw sockets
04:40	stuhood	sorry... i didn't mean raw sockets.
04:45	unlink	I'm looking for something along the lines of http://u.nu/5g46 ...surely some library exists
04:45	Serkan	unlink: libmatthew-java has
04:48	unlink	Thanks...hmm, it's missing from my repo
04:49	Serkan	unlink: http://www.matthew.ath.cx/projects/java/
04:50	hiredman	you could use chouser's jna lib
04:51	unlink	No wonder I couldn't find it. ath.cx
04:51	hiredman	"Dynamically load and use native C libs from Clojure using JNA"
04:51	hiredman	http://github.com/Chouser/clojure-jna/tree/master
04:52	unlink	What C library did you have in mind? libc?
04:53	hiredman	yeah
04:53	hiredman	open()
04:55	hiredman	wow
04:55	hiredman	it has been a long time since I have written any C
04:56	unlink	import cx.ath.matthew.unix.UnixSocket; is mad sketchy
04:57	hiredman	how so?
04:57	unlink	import cx.ath. ...
04:57	unlink	dyndns
04:58	unlink	though I actually intended that message for another tab
04:58	hiredman	I had a .cx back in the day
04:59	hiredman	ah
08:31	guinea	I'm just wondering, is a zipper how the emacs buffer works?
08:32	kotarak	The Yi buffers seem to work like a zipper. Dunno about emacs.
11:32	Qvintvs	does the clojure have some sort of (exit) function to get out of the interpreter, or do you just need to ctrl+c out of it?
11:32	Qvintvs	does clojure*
11:33	dreish	You could do (System/exit 0)
11:35	Qvintvs	yay, ty
12:06	Chouser	unlink: I'd actually recommed using jna on libc curerntly, over that libmatthew thing.
12:08	p_l	Chouser: it might even work on Windows, I think :)
12:08	Chouser	I'm pretty sure Windows doesn't have unix domain sockets.
12:11	p_l	it's just non-standard optional package
12:11	Chouser	huh
12:11	p_l	just like there's a setting that changes the whole system into case-sensitive, including devfs (which can break various code)
12:13	p_l	oh, and the MS installer of SUA (Services for Unix Applications) includes GCC
12:56	markusgustavsson	So what's the jna performance like? Same as regular jni?
13:19	grosours	plop
13:42	Chouser	markusgustavsson: https://jna.dev.java.net/#performance
13:48	Chouser	so, no, not as fast as jni. :-)
13:58	guinea	Is it possible to do something like a proxy of a proxy? i.e. use proxy to overload some methods, and then do another proxy on that to overload more functions - a sort of inheritance
14:00	Chouser	proxy takes a class and returns an instance.
14:00	guinea	hmm
14:01	Chouser	I guess I'm not sure what you're trying to do. A proxy can't add methods...
14:01	guinea	i'll have to write a macro to combine overloadings into a proxy statement...
14:02	guinea	I've written different proxies, to overload a java class in various ways
14:02	guinea	and I want to be able to create proxies that have combinations of those
14:02	Chouser	if you look at the proxy macro source, you'll see it does a lot of its work at runtime with a couple public functions
14:02	guinea	cool
14:02	Chouser	each proxy instance has a map of the functions it will call for the various methods. you may be able to work with those directly.
14:02	guinea	where do I find the macro source?
14:03	Chouser	maybe not even need to write a macro
14:03	Chouser	~def proxy
14:03	Chouser	or (source proxy) if you have clojure.contrib.repl-utils
14:03	guinea	sweet
14:04	Chouser	gotta go mow. ciao.
14:04	guinea	thx
15:25	quidnunc	Anyone at all familiar with enlive?
15:26	dnolen	yes
15:35	quidnunc	dnolen: If I want to select a table node with class "bar" shouldn't [:table (attr= :class "bar")] work?
15:36	quidnunc	[:table (attr? :class)] seems to return more results than just [:table}
15:37	dnolen	isn't there a has-class?
15:38	dnolen	quidnunc really it should be
15:38	dnolen	[:table.bar]
15:39	dnolen	[:table (attr? :class)] will return any table that has a class attribute not just bar.
15:39	quidnunc	dnolen: It does a union?
15:39	dnolen	no it's how CSS3 works
15:39	dnolen	table.bar matches a table with class bar
15:40	dnolen	[:table.bar] is the enlive translation.
15:40	quidnunc	dnolen: I meant [:table (attr? :class)]
15:40	quidnunc	That does a union?
15:40	dnolen	I suppose so, but it simply means "return all tables that have a class attribute"
15:42	quidnunc	By union I meant table OR class attribute. Shouldn't this work: [:table (attr= :class "bar")]
15:42	dnolen	?
15:42	dnolen	you want all tables or anything with a class attribute?
15:42	quidnunc	I want table with class attribute "bar baz"
15:42	quidnunc	tables*
15:43	dnolen	[:table (has-class "bar baz")] should work I think.
15:46	lisppaste8	quidnunc pasted "enlive class selector" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80388
15:46	quidnunc	dnolen: ^ It doesn't seem to
15:47	dnolen	oops
15:47	dnolen	the docs say
15:48	dnolen	[:table.bar.baz]
15:49	quidnunc	dnolen: Ah, good. Works now.
15:49	quidnunc	dnolen: Thanks. That was driving me a bit up the wall.
15:49	dnolen	np
15:50	quidnunc	That seems a bit nasty though. How do you deal with dynamic class names?
15:51	quidnunc	(has-class "bar" "baz") doesn't seem to work.
15:52	quidnunc	(and splitting the args into separate strings every time is unpleasant)
15:53	quidnunc	Actually, I'm surprised that what I initially tried didn't work. Shouldn't class be treated like any other attribute?
15:59	danlarkin_	quidnunc: I think the main thing is that an element can have many classes, and usually you just want to check for one, not one and only one
15:59	mcspiff	anyone feel up to helping a newbie get slime setup?:D
16:01	quidnunc	danlarkin_: So their is no distinction in enlive between class="foo bar" and class="foo" class="bar"?
16:01	quidnunc	there*
16:04	danlarkin_	quidnunc: in enlive? I don't know, there probably is. I'm just saying why it's the way it is
16:05	quidnunc	danlarkin_: Okay, thanks.
16:11	mattikus	Is there a decent way to catch ctrl-c from the repl and have it not exit?
16:27	liebke	mattikus: clojure.contrib.repl-utils/add-break-thread! used to do that, but it doesn't seem to work anymore. Something must of have changed
16:28	mattikus	Shucks. I'm so used to ctrl-c being either clear line or break current execution that I keep kicking myself out of the interpreter.
16:32	fyuryu	StartsWithK: Hi
16:33	liebke	yeah, I call add-break-thread! in my user.clj, so ctrl-c used to automatically work "correctly". I need to figure out what the problem is.
16:35	fyuryu	StartsWithK: I added an ant file for cloak, turned out I needed it anyway - the setup that I was using was not completely safe - sometimes I had problems with compilation.
16:58	StartsWithK	fyuryu: oh, hi, i wasn't here
16:59	StartsWithK	fyuryu: i forked it on github (i guess that is what i did), added ivy build so it downloads clojure from .zip on download page (packager resolver) and it can compile itself in one go
16:59	StartsWithK	fyuryu: also imported some of your code from your libs project, i think is down to graph and utils now
17:00	StartsWithK	fyuryu: also removed test-is and replaced it with my fork of clj-unit so test can be peformed with build
17:00	StartsWithK	fyuryu: and replaced some of your code with stuff from commons-io, like mkdir and such
17:00	StartsWithK	now i have a problem, i did it i know, tests fail
17:00	StartsWithK	but i think i can fix that tomorow
17:01	fyuryu	StartsWithK: ah, I somehow missed that github clone
17:02	StartsWithK	so next step would be ant task for compiling clojure sources in a way javac does it
17:03	StartsWithK	i have such a task for ant but it is in javascript, and i was planing to port it to pure clojure
17:03	StartsWithK	so i can use read with eval = false to realy check for namespace names
17:03	StartsWithK	i would like to place that code in cloak instead of my project
17:04	StartsWithK	and if someone realy (realy realy) needs it, i would also try a joint java-clojure compiler, but for now i don't have any interest in it myself
17:05	StartsWithK	will you accept that patches too?
17:06	fyuryu	StartsWithK: <StartsWithK> so i can use read with eval = false to realy check for namespace
17:06	fyuryu	names --- not sure I understand that part
17:08	StartsWithK	fyuryu: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/117753/
17:08	StartsWithK	fyuryu: in my clojurec task i just check for "(ns" to decide is .clj file with namespace declaration or maybe it uses (in-ns), but that is weak
17:09	StartsWithK	it dosn't work if you type ;(ns blah..)
17:09	StartsWithK	anyway that task works like <clojurec srcdir='' destdir=''/> so you don't need to write namespaces you would like to compile
17:10	fyuryu	StartsWithK: Ah, I get it now
17:11	StartsWithK	fyuryu: i would like this new task to be inside cloak (with clojure-repl task) and after that i would add ant wrapper to cloak
17:12	fyuryu	StartsWithK: sounds cool. I was also thinking about about those topics and found that there's no way around ant. It has to be part of the toolbox.
17:14	StartsWithK	fyuryu: yes, and by providing a ant taks we would get support (in a way) for buildr, gradle and such as they all can use ant task in there builds.
17:14	StartsWithK	i looked at what lanced did, but that will not work, ant task are much more complex and can be registered at any time to project instance
17:14	djkthx	whats the equivalent to member in clojure?
17:14	djkthx	from common lisp?
17:15	fyuryu	StartsWithK: I found your repo on github, I'll try to find time during the week/weekend to look at it
17:16	StartsWithK	fyuryu: thanks, just don't merge, its not functional for now.. well i guess i could go now and try to fix it :)
17:19	fyuryu	StartsWithK: ok
17:22	danlarkin_	Chouser: did you see my post in the error-kit + test-is thread? Any thoughts?
17:47	dfdeshom	hi, is there a way to build objects in clojure? something like the clos comes to mind
17:48	opqdonut	proxy
17:49	opqdonut	http://clojure.org/java_interop#toc25
17:49	dreish	There's nothing like CLOS. The usual thing is to use hashes and multimethods.
17:50	opqdonut	yeh
17:53	dfdeshom	can I define custom operators for my types? Eg for ^,&, etc
17:58	danlarkin_	dfdeshom: that's a loaded question... short answer is yes, but not for certain symbols... ^ is reserved by the reader already, and +,-, etc are already defined in clojure.core
18:00	StartsWithK	dfdeshom: you could also take a look at clojure.contrib.generic library
18:01	dfdeshom	thanks guys.
18:02	dfdeshom	I'm asking this because I saw a scala program doing operator overloading and I wanted to know how clojure does this, if at all
18:03	dreish	Scala and Clojure are extremely different languages.
18:08	dfdeshom	that's what i'm finding out :) . i like scala because i can use objects and clojure because it's dynamic in nature. they both have things that annoy me but i'm trying to find out which one gets in my way of thinking less
18:36	StartsWithK	dfdeshom: there are some libraries for clojure that let you program in oo style, i think spinoza (http://github.com/swannodette/spinoza/tree/master) is one of the more complete ones
19:05	dfdeshom	StartsWithK: thanks for the link. this is not a deal-breaker for me, i just want to know what's "easy" and "hard" to do w/ clojure
19:58	bpattison	can anyone tell me what the last statement is false?
19:58	bpattison	user=> (= () '())
19:58	bpattison	true
19:58	bpattison	user=> (= {:x ()} {:x '()})
19:58	bpattison	true
19:58	bpattison	user=> (= {:x '({:y ()})} {:x '({:y '()})} )
19:58	bpattison	false
19:58	bpattison	it seems like it should be true as well
20:00	rhickey	(:y '{:y '()})
20:00	rhickey	,(:y '{:y '()})
20:00	clojurebot	(quote ())
20:00	rhickey	(:y '{:y ()})
20:00	rhickey	,(:y '{:y '()})
20:00	clojurebot	(quote ())
20:01	rhickey	,(:y '{:y ()})
20:01	clojurebot	()
20:01	rhickey	the outer quote prevent the inner one from being evaluated
20:01	rhickey	prevents
20:02	bpattison	oh -- so the outer quote is applying to the rest of the statement -- okay thanks
20:02	bpattison	and I don't need to quote the inner one
20:03	rhickey	bpattison: right
20:04	rhickey	'() is always unnecessary, just use ()
20:04	bpattison	okay, that really helps me understand what's going on --thanks
22:49	chessguy	are merge and merge-with about the only way to combine 2 maps?
22:53	abrooks	chessguy: You can also conj two maps with the latter taking precedence: (conj {:a 1 :c 3 :b 42} {:b 2 :d 4})
22:53	abrooks	,(conj {:a 1 :c 3 :b 42} {:b 2 :d 4})
22:53	clojurebot	{:d 4, :a 1, :c 3, :b 2}
22:55	chessguy	hmm
22:57	abrooks	In fact, I'm having trouble thinking how merge is any different than conj without going and looking at core.clj.
22:57	chessguy	so there's no good way to conj the two together, applying some uniquifying function to any key that's a duplicate
22:58	abrooks	chessguy: That's what merge-with is for.
22:58	chessguy	no, i want both the original key and a uniqified version to be in the result
22:58	abrooks	chessguy: The function you specify allows you to handle the duplicats.
22:59	abrooks	chessguy: Under the same key? You can't, the key must be unique in the map.
22:59	abrooks	chessguy: You can merge the values and that's what it does.
22:59	chessguy	sorry, i'm clearly not making myself clear
23:00	chessguy	i want something like (my-merge uniquifier {:a 1} {:a 1}) => {:a 1 :a_ 1}
23:00	hiredman	chessguy: sounds like you want to wrap assoc
23:00	unlink	Man, I'm so glad I found repl-utils/javadoc ... I was about to write that
23:00	hiredman	or wrap merge
23:00	chessguy	where uniquifier figures out how to generate the new symbol
23:01	chessguy	hiredman, hm. maybe wrap merge to be able to add a sequence of symbols to the resulting map?
23:02	hiredman	,(assoc {:a 1} :a 1 :b 2)
23:02	clojurebot	{:b 2, :a 1}
23:03	hiredman	so you just wrap assoc to generate uniquefied keys for keys already in the keyset
23:03	hiredman	,(.keySet #{:a})
23:03	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: keySet for class clojure.lang.PersistentHashSet
23:03	hiredman	,(.keySet {:a 1})
23:03	clojurebot	#< [:a]>
23:03	chessguy	hiredman, i see. i assume merge uses assoc
23:04	hiredman	~def merge
23:04	durka42	it does not
23:04	chessguy	bummer
23:05	chessguy	then wrapping assoc won't be enough
23:07	abrooks	chessguy: I have to ask... Is this really what you want to do?
23:07	chessguy	abrooks, good question
23:07	abrooks	:)
23:07	chessguy	the answer is, i'm not sure yet
23:07	chessguy	i'm brainstorming for a problem i'll be facing down the road
23:07	chessguy	good way to lwarn the language too :)
23:08	abrooks	A question I often wind up asking myself and more often with Clojure it seems. My first approaches are often orthogonal to the Clojure way at times.
23:08	abrooks	chessguy: I also highly recommend ProjectEuler.net for learning languages, functional ones in particular. (It was a big help to me, at least.)
23:08	chessguy	bah
23:09	chessguy	too much math knowledge needed
23:09	abrooks	chessguy: Heh. Okay.
23:09	chessguy	i don't really care to have to go look up fast prime-generation algorithms and such
23:09	chessguy	at least, not while learning a language :)
23:12	chessguy	anyway, learning the language isn't my primary goal at the moment, it's a side effect
23:13	chessguy	,(dissoc)
23:13	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: core$dissoc
23:14	chessguy	,(dissoc {:a 1})
23:14	clojurebot	{:a 1}