#clojure – 2009-05-14

2009-05-14

03:01	cads	hey, how should I implement a multimap where multiple values may act as a key for one map entry?
03:03	cads	oh, that's just a normal map with value duplication :D
03:10	fffej	does gen-class allow you to annotate methods with java Annotations?
03:10	fffej	(I couldn't see anything in the docs)
03:15	replaca	fffej: I don't believe so
03:16	fffej	thanks!
03:20	tWip	that would be good, for example creating ejb3 entity classes
03:22	markusgustavsson	Something better would be to not have to create EJBs at all :) a boy can dream...
03:22	replaca	yeah, Rich has decided that he doesnt want gen-class to go all the way to all the functionality of java classes and is thinking about the best approach to that
04:16	cads	in the commandline repl, is there any way to make it interpret ctrl-c as abort-eval instead of exit?
05:41	unlink	Is there any way to determine if a script is being run directly or imported?
05:49	AWizzArd	script = Clojure program?
05:50	unlink	clojure asdf.clj vs clojure -e "(use 'asdf)"
05:52	AWizzArd	maybe in the args of the main method?
05:52	AWizzArd	you could see if you can find "-e"
05:55	unlink	What main method?
06:02	AWizzArd	Of the class
06:02	unlink	fwiw clojure parses out everything before and including the script name
06:02	unlink	I'm not sure what class you're talking about
06:03	AWizzArd	did you say "clojure asdf.clj" short for a call to "java -cp clojure.jar ..."
06:03	AWizzArd	?
06:06	unlink	yes, java -cp clojure.jar clojure.main asdf.clj
06:11	AWizzArd	the idea is that you don't call clojure.main
06:11	AWizzArd	but instead your own main
06:11	AWizzArd	and to that you can pass arguments, such as -e
06:11	AWizzArd	then the basic idea is: if your main method was not called, then your program was not called directly
06:12	AWizzArd	(defn -main [args] ...)
06:12	AWizzArd	and put a (:gen-class) into your (ns)
06:14	unlink	AWizzArd: But this requires AOT compilation, right?
06:14	AWizzArd	yes
06:15	AWizzArd	I guess
06:15	AWizzArd	well, don't know actually
06:20	achim_p	unlink: something similar was dicussed on the google group: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/ca60d98fb4f7e71e/16b0ebb277daf5b9
06:26	unlink	thanks
06:27	unlink	I'm getting a 500 from google, heh.
06:56	djpowell	Is there a guide anywhere on how to call Clojure dynamically from Java? I guess that is a question that a few people will ask.
06:56	djpowell	clojurebot: paste
06:56	clojurebot	lisppaste8, url
06:56	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
06:57	lisppaste8	djpowell pasted "Calling clojure dynamically?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80198
07:31	rhickey	djpowell: RT.var is the best way to get a handle on vars. Then use it for all interop that you can, i.e. you can get the var for require or use and use them to load code
07:33	rhickey	djpowell: http://code.google.com/p/clojure/source/browse/trunk/src/jvm/clojure/main.java?spec=svn1368&r=1368
08:09	jdz	djpowell: i have not tested, but with gen-class you can create classes that behave just like ordinary Java classes
08:35	AWizzArd	,(ref 0)
08:35	clojurebot	#<Ref@c707c1: 0>
08:36	AWizzArd	The is the c707c1 in that output guaranteed to be unique in that jvm?
08:36	yason	clear
08:37	AWizzArd	if it is for example the address in ram then it could not change, but if it is some hash code that gets calculated...
08:38	AWizzArd	,(let [r (ref 0)] [r (format "%x" (System/identityHashCode r))])
08:38	clojurebot	[#<Ref@13d422d: 0> "13d422d"]
08:48	bstephenson	I run (ref 0) twice in a row in my REPL and get back two different Ref@ numbers
08:48	dnolen	you created two refs
08:48	bstephenson	ahh
08:49	dnolen	,(ref 0)
08:49	clojurebot	#<Ref@1fcbac1: 0>
08:49	dnolen	,(ref 0)
08:49	clojurebot	#<Ref@b0ede6: 0>
08:50	bstephenson	(def x (ref 0))
08:50	bstephenson	,(def x (ref 0))
08:50	clojurebot	DENIED
08:50	dnolen	yeah you can't def clojurebot.
08:50	AWizzArd	,(let [x (ref 0)] (println x))
08:50	bstephenson	well, if that was allowed by clojurebot, when you see the ref for x, it is the same every time
08:51	dnolen	,(let [refA (ref 0) refB (ref 0)] (= refA ref B))
08:51	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: B in this context
08:51	dnolen	,(let [refA (ref 0) refB (ref 0)] [(= refA refB) (= refA refA)])
08:51	clojurebot	[false true]
08:52	AWizzArd	The thing is: is the hash code of that ref unique for the running session?
08:53	AWizzArd	well, probably not for the running session
08:54	AWizzArd	but I hope at least for any two refs that currently still live that hash code will be pairwise different
08:54	jdz	if that is a hash code then why should it be different?
08:54	jdz	i mean, necessarily different?
08:55	rhickey	AWizzArd: no guarantee that hash codes will be different, by definition they are not identities
08:56	AWizzArd	jdz: yes, that was what I said about 1,5 minutes before you entered ;)
08:57	AWizzArd	So, (let [a (ref 0), b (ref 1)] (= (System/identityHashCode a) (System/identityHashCode b))) ==> true is possible.
08:58	rhickey	http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/System.html#identityHashCode(java.lang.Object)
08:58	rhickey	makes few promises
09:00	AWizzArd	right
09:19	yason	uh, I'm failing to find a simple membership test function for sequences, such as "x in seq" (Python), "indexOf" (JS), etc.
09:19	dnolen	,(.indexOf 'a ['a 'b 'c])
09:19	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: indexOf for class clojure.lang.Symbol
09:20	dnolen	oops
09:20	dnolen	,(.indexOf ['a 'b 'c] 'a)
09:20	clojurebot	0
09:20	dnolen	,(.indexOf 'c ['a 'b 'c])
09:20	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: indexOf for class clojure.lang.Symbol
09:20	dnolen	,(.indexOf ['a 'b 'c] 'c)
09:20	clojurebot	2
09:21	dnolen	,(some #{'y} ['x 'y 'z])
09:21	clojurebot	y
09:21	yason	ok so java it is -- is that efficient?
09:21	dnolen	if you just want to test membership
09:21	dnolen	yes.
09:21	yason	plain membership test is fine, akin to "x in seq" in Python
09:22	yason	the set thing with (some) is ugly though :)
09:22	dnolen	then use some.
09:22	yason	I'm surprised there isn't a built-in like (member?) or something
09:23	dnolen	heh, it's idiomatic. and more general
09:23	dnolen	,(some #{'a 'b} ['x 'y 'b])
09:23	clojurebot	b
09:24	yason	Yeah but it's ugly, you have to know and recognize the pattern.
09:24	yason	By the way .indexOf doesn't work for lazy sequences
09:24	dnolen	just as you have to recognize list comprehension for Python. to each his own ;)
09:25	yason	dnolen: well, the latter works for lazy seqs too so I consider it a better fit
09:25	yason	I've used the (some #{...} ) before but it always felt like a hack :)
09:26	yason	but hey, thanks anyway for validation
09:28	dnolen	no prob. you could always add your own fn, (defn in? [coll x] (some #{x} coll))
09:35	jdz_	,(contains? [1 2 3] 3)
09:35	clojurebot	false
09:35	jdz_	,(contains? '(a b c) 'c)
09:35	clojurebot	false
09:35	durka42	man, dev.java.net is really slow
09:35	dnolen	(,doc contains)
09:35	dnolen	,(doc contains)
09:35	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: contains in this context
09:36	dnolen	,(doc contains?)
09:36	clojurebot	"([coll key]); Returns true if key is present in the given collection, otherwise returns false. Note that for numerically indexed collections like vectors and Java arrays, this tests if the numeric key is within the range of indexes. 'contains?' operates constant or logarithmic time; it will not perform a linear search for a value. See also 'some'."
09:36	jdz_	oh, that's not for sequences
09:36	durka42	and not for values
09:36	jdz_	what do you mean not for values?
09:38	jdz_	,(some (partial = 'c) '(a b c))
09:38	clojurebot	true
09:41	Chousuke	,(some #{'c} '(a b c)) ; this is a fun trick
09:41	clojurebot	c
09:41	jdz_	it kinda feels wrong to me when testing for only one value...
09:41	Chousuke	I guess so.
09:42	Chousuke	but it's a clojure idiom.
10:02	durka42	clojurebot: paste?
10:02	clojurebot	lisppaste8, url
10:02	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
10:06	durka42	trying to using Chouser's JNA to prove Charles Nutter wrong:
10:06	lisppaste8	durka42 pasted "vim" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80211
10:27	drewr	Is there an idiomatic way to capture exceptions from an Executor?
10:33	jdz	What's Executor and how its exceptions are different from any other exceptions?
10:37	drewr	jdz: It's an abstraction for spawning command executing in threads.
10:38	drewr	Normally I would use an agent and its facilities for tracking down exceptions, but in this case I have an await in the code that gets spawned.
10:42	drewr	s/executing/execution/ ^^~2
10:43	drewr	I don't know the Java ways of dealing with that, but I'
10:43	drewr	m assuming it's the same in clojure.
10:45	jdz	i must admit i don't see what's the problem without any code
10:46	tWip	why not have the Runnable implementation store it in a field and access it?
10:47	drewr	tWip: Yes, I considered that.
10:48	drewr	Also, JCIP mentions UncaughtExceptionHandler.
10:48	tWip	why do you need to "capture" exceptions? why can't the runnables just catch them and do the appropriate thing
10:49	tWip	or have them notify some other code about them
10:51	drewr	tWip: Sounds good. Just wanted to make sure there wasn't something more pre-fab.
10:51	tWip	it's of course a design decision on where you want to react to problems
10:53	drewr	The convenience of agent-errors threw me off. :-)
11:11	liwp	does anyone here have any idea how to evaluate a form in slime in the current namespace rather than in 'user?
11:12	stuartsierra	It should happen automatically if your source file has a (ns...) at the top.
11:12	liwp	My problem is that when I send a form to slime with C-x C-e, it gets evaluated in 'user rather than in the namespace of the source file. And therefore my other code keeps using the old definition according to the namespace rather than the new definition.
11:12	liwp	stuartsierra: I've got the (ns ...) in the source file
11:12	dnolen	liwp: you need to evaluate the ns statement first.
11:12	liwp	I've change the namespace in the repl with (in-ns ...)
11:13	liwp	dnolen: I've compile the whole buffer with C-c C-k before...
11:13	stuartsierra	Try C-M-X instead of C-x C-e.
11:13	stuartsierra	C-M-x I mean
11:14	liwp	stuartsierra: Ok, I'll give it a try when I get home
11:14	dnolen	not sure C-c C-k keeps things in sync.
11:15	dnolen	when I'm in the REPL zone, I usually select all the working code and do C-c C-r to evaluate the region.
11:15	liwp	I'll just have to figure out the correct workflow for myself...
11:15	dnolen	then I use C-x C-e and C-M-x
11:15	liwp	dnolen: and that works fine with namespaces?
11:16	dnolen	it does for me, yes.
11:16	dnolen	swank-clojure matches the buffer to a ns if you C-x C-e a name space definition.
11:16	liwp	dnolen: I haven't C-x C-e'd the namespace so maybe that's the problem
11:17	liwp	I guess compiling the file isn't enough for swank-clojure
11:17	liwp	thanks guys
11:17	markusgustavsson	C-c C-k followed by C-x C-e on single forms works fine for me
11:17	liwp	markusgustavsson: even with namespaces?
11:17	markusgustavsson	yeah
11:17	markusgustavsson	At least I think so.. can check to make sure :)
11:17	liwp	markusgustavsson: is your repl in 'user or in the other namespace?
11:18	markusgustavsson	it's in user, does not affect C-x C-e
11:19	dnolen	ok, I can confirm that markus is correct.
11:19	liwp	markusgustavsson: mine's not in 'user so I thought that might have something to do with it not working, but seems a bit weird
11:19	dnolen	liwp I take that back.
11:20	dnolen	C-c C-k doesn't synchronize the file to an ns in the proper way.
11:20	liwp	dnolen: so it's broken for you too?
11:20	dnolen	yup
11:20	dnolen	that's why I don't bother with it when doing stuff in the REPL.
11:20	dnolen	only when sanity checking a file.
11:20	liwp	I haven't updated my slime/swank-clojure for a while so it might be that it's been fixed
11:21	markusgustavsson	liwp: just tried C-c C-k followed by C-x C-e on an additional defn and the new function gets added to the correct namespace - the one specified in my buffer - regardless of the ns in the repl.
11:21	markusgustavsson	But I don't have the latest svn versions of everything
11:21	liwp	dnolen: makes sense - I guess I need to figure out another work flow for myself, which is fine, C-c C-k just seemed like a simple way to load the file to clojure before making changes
11:22	liwp	markusgustavsson: good for you ;-)
11:22	stuartsierra	I use slime-eval-buffer
11:22	dnolen	ok, I just updated slime.
11:22	dnolen	seems to work when everything is up to date.
11:22	liwp	stuartsierra: what't that bound to by default?
11:23	stuartsierra	nothing
11:23	liwp	dnolen: ahh, I'll need to update then
11:23	liwp	stuartsierra: I thought so, that's why I'm not using it. I might as well replace C-c C-k with it. Do you have it bound>
11:23	stuartsierra	no
11:25	liwp	thanks everyone
11:31	stuartsierra	Re the JSON "NULL" thing from yesterday -- even Firefox won't parse it.
11:32	danlarkin	where do they think they get off sending "NULL"... the nerve... :-o
11:32	stuartsierra	:)
11:38	danlarkin	that was kindof serious though, maybe I shouldn't patch to allow NULL
11:42	stuartsierra	I'm disinclined to do support it.
12:19	stuartsierra	Anyone else having trouble connecting to Google sites?
12:20	unlink	Neither of the methods described in http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/ca60d98fb4f7e71e/16b0ebb277daf5b9 work for detecting whether a script has been invoked directly or (use)'d.
12:20	unlink	That is, neither ns nor command-line-args depend on this.
12:21	danlarkin	stuartsierra: I am not, but I've seen a few people on the twitter and some remote coworkers are
12:22	stuartsierra	unlink: I think the recommended procedure now is to define a main function and invoke it.
12:22	stuartsierra	danlarkin: thanks
12:22	unlink	stuartsierra: Invoke it where?
12:23	stuartsierra	On the command line.
12:23	unlink	stuartsierra: You mean with AOT compilation?
12:24	stuartsierra	unlink: not necessarily, although AOT permits you to run "java -cp ... your.class.name"
12:24	unlink	stuartsierra: Right, but I don't see how you could invoke a clojure method from the command line without AOT.
12:25	unlink	(or something silly like -e (use 'com.example.test) (-main))
12:25	stuartsierra	That's basically it. You can use the "-i" option to load the file, then "-e" to run it.
12:26	unlink	That seems like it's screaming for a language feature.
12:27	stuartsierra	Stephen G. suggested adding metadata to the namespace to identify a "main" function. I suggested always using "-main".
12:27	unlink	Alternatively a name binding could be used (borrowing from Python, ruby et al)
12:29	unlink	I would be fine with either a special "main" name or annotation or a binding for the script being invoked.
12:47	stuartsierra	unlink: another option is to have a separate "driver" .clj script that just calls your main function.
12:47	unlink	right
12:48	unlink	Python and Ruby users will expect the feature I'm looking for, and I think it's simply a good idea anyhow (for rapid development and for single-module projects).
12:48	stuartsierra	yes
12:53	ieure	Agreed, I was just looking for something like Python's if __name__ == '__main__' trick.
12:54	replaca	ieure: this comes up all the time and we need to come up with a nice way to do that. It shouldn't be hard to come up with a way that's nicer than python's!
12:55	technomancy	replaca: agreed; that trick is clunky as the dickens.
12:55	unlink	"idiom" :-)
12:55	replaca	technomancy: but I use it all the time and I feel the lack of it in Clojure
12:56	stuartsierra	Short answer: use AOT-compilation for now, suggest new feature.
12:56	replaca	that's right
12:57	technomancy	CLI launching methods have always been a weak point of clojure.
12:57	replaca	stuartsierra: did you see my comment yesterday about json.write vs. clojure-json performance?
12:57	unlink	Which brings up the related point that AOT compilation could be simplified.
12:57	stuartsierra	replaca: no
12:58	replaca	I ran a benchmark (cause I was testing pretty print dispatch) and simple json output was ~20x faster in clojure-json than in json.write.
12:58	replaca	I was testing with my API index from the contrib autodoc
12:58	stuartsierra	Which contrib SVN did you have?
12:59	replaca	within the last few, don't know exactly
12:59	stuartsierra	ok
12:59	replaca	I'm always up to date within a few days
12:59	replaca	dunno if there's something unusual about my case.
13:00	stuartsierra	I'll try it
13:00	replaca	it's almost 300K at the end
13:02	replaca	stuartsierra: yeah, you can grab some JSON from http://clojure-contrib.googlecode.com/svn/wiki/ApiDocIndex.json
13:02	stuartsierra	I've got tons.
13:02	replaca	stuartsierra: cool
13:15	stuartsierra	Hmm. c.c.json.read appears to be just slightly faster.
13:20	stuartsierra	Testing c.c.json.write now
13:23	stuartsierra	c.c.json.write is much slower, around 20:1.
13:24	stuartsierra	It's probably the multimethods & derive.
13:24	danlarkin	combine forces!
13:24	stuartsierra	ok
13:24	danlarkin	stuartsierra: yeah I tested clojure-json's encoder with multimethods instead of cond... slowed it down so I took them out
13:29	stuartsierra	Sigh... elegance is always the first to fall.
13:31	hlship	If I have a symbol, say 'foo, how do I get the namespace for it? Context: want to write utilities to load resources from the classpath, relative to the symbol's namespace.
13:32	danlarkin	(doc namespace)
13:32	clojurebot	"([x]); Returns the namespace String of a symbol or keyword, or nil if not present."
13:33	hlship	user=> (foo 1)
13:33	hlship	2
13:33	hlship	user=> (namespace 'foo)
13:33	hlship	nil
13:33	hlship	So foo exists, but (namespace 'foo) returns nil, that's why I'm confused.
13:34	hlship	And (ns-resolve) seems to require the namespace in the first place.
13:35	jkantz	what's the fastest way to do a > comparison on integers?
13:35	jkantz	I don't see any unchecked options for that
13:35	danlarkin	hlship: you're passing 'foo to the namespace function
13:35	danlarkin	hlship: 'foo has no namespace
13:35	danlarkin	hlship: 'user/foo does, however
13:36	danlarkin	jkantz: unchecked- functions are no faster than the checked variants
13:36	danlarkin	> will be suitably fast
13:36	danlarkin	no faster, that is, within a margin of error
13:37	danlarkin	lisppaste8: url
13:37	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
13:37	stuartsierra	Huh. Eliminating multimethods didn't make that much difference.
13:37	hlship	I want to be able to say (find-classpath-resource 'foo "style.css") and find /my/namespace/for/foo/style.css on the classpath
13:37	lisppaste8	danlarkin pasted "resolve*" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80228
13:38	danlarkin	hlship: does resolve* help?
13:38	hlship	let me see ...
13:39	danlarkin	oh, no, resolve* is for resolving functions, not resources
13:40	jkantz	danlarkin, is that because the jit will eventually make the needed optimizations?
13:40	hlship	user=> (resolve 'foo)
13:40	hlship	#'user/foo
13:40	hlship	user=> (namespace (resolve 'foo))
13:40	hlship	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Var (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
13:40	hlship	user=> (ns-resolve ns (resolve 'foo))
13:40	hlship	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Var (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
13:40	hlship	user=> (namespace (resolve 'foo))
13:40	hlship	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Var (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
13:40	hlship	user=>
13:41	danlarkin	jkantz: yes. Also you can cast your variables with (int ...)
13:41	danlarkin	inside function-boundaries they'll stay primitive ints
13:41	hlship	Worse, in my tests (running from La Clojure in REPL), ns appears to be "user" regardless, which is odd
13:41	danlarkin	hlship: resolve returns a var, not a symbol
13:42	stuartsierra	Reflection makes a big difference, though.
13:43	hlship	Right, that's why I'm struggling.
13:43	hlship	In Java, I could just getClass().getClassLoader().getResource()
13:44	danlarkin	hlship: how about (:ns (meta (resolve 'foo)))
13:45	hlship	(one minute ...)
13:53	danlarkin	stuartsierra: how much faster is it with the hints?
13:54	stuartsierra	Reading is slightly faster, now I'm getting 2x faster than clojure-json. Writing is MUCH faster, but still about 2x slower than clojure-json.
13:54	stuartsierra	Still experimenting.
13:55	danlarkin	I spent time optimizing encoding in clojure-json, but not much optimizing decoding, I guess it shows
13:56	stuartsierra	ok
13:56	stuartsierra	It might be the difference between building a String and calling (print...)
14:03	hlship	(:ns (meta (resolve 'foo))) thanks! Should help.
14:04	replaca	stuartsierra, danlarkin: looks like the competitive free market is working!
14:04	stuartsierra	:)
14:04	hlship	now if there was only the concept of "this" for functions or namespaces
14:05	danlarkin	hlship: ns
14:05	replaca	stuartsierra: I did pretty printing versions of c.c.json.write and c.c.prxml in c.c.pprint.examples
14:05	kotarak	hlship: (fn this [] ....)
14:05	hlship	That was my first try, and (perhaps due to test-is), was coming up as "user"
14:05	ieure	What kind of Clojure benchmarking tools are there?
14:06	replaca	ieure: (time), -hprof, stuart put some profiling into contrib
14:07	stuartsierra	experimental...
14:07	replaca	ieure: those are the ones I think of off the top of mmy head
14:07	lisppaste8	hlship pasted "find-classpath-resource" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80231
14:08	hlship	So (:ns (resolve 'foo)) works in REPL
14:09	hlship	ah ... so my problem, oops
14:09	kotarak	hlship: you have to replace - with _ also. Not only . with /.
14:10	ieure	Hmm. So I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but this SQL query I'm running is OOMing the JVM. Seems like (with-query-results) buffers the whole (large) resultset.
14:11	ieure	I'm doing (with-query-results rs ["SELECT gobs_of_rows;"] (map (fn [row] ...)))
14:12	hiredman	at the repl?
14:12	ieure	Yes.
14:12	lisppaste8	hlship annotated #80231 "final version w/ test" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80231#1
14:13	hlship	thanks for the help
14:13	hiredman	ieure: the repl is try to realize the map to print out the result
14:13	hlship	using the (meta) was a cool trick
14:13	ieure	hiredman, Hm, okay.
14:14	kotarak	ieure: maybe you can try (doseq [row (with----)] (println row)).
14:14	kotarak	This should not hold on the head of the sequence
14:15	hlship	anybody doing web apps w/ clojure currently?
14:15	technomancy	hiredman: that needs to be a clojurebot faq like how he says map is LAZY
14:15	technomancy	,repl
14:15	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: repl in this context
14:15	technomancy	clojurebot: repl?
14:15	clojurebot	whose job is<reply>that is triddells job
14:15	dnolen	hlship: I've been using compojure to rapid prototype front ends, as well as playing around with GAE.
14:15	hiredman	,clojure.main/repl
14:15	clojurebot	#<main$repl__5796 clojure.main$repl__5796@1342f5b>
14:16	kotarak	clojurebot: the repl is also holding onto the head of sequences when printing them.
14:16	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
14:16	kotarak	clojurebot: repl
14:16	clojurebot	the world <reply>what the world needs is more higher order functions
14:16	kotarak	clojurebot: the repl
14:16	clojurebot	the repl is holding onto the head of sequences when printing them.
14:16	hiredman	clojurebot: whose job is it to make you talk to twitter correctly
14:16	clojurebot	Alles klar
14:16	hiredman	er
14:16	hiredman	whoops
14:16	hlship	I'm taking a breather from Tapestry and trying to build a Clojure web framework using Tapestry-style templates
14:16	hlship	but it will be action oriented, not component oriented
14:17	nurey_mac	hlship: looks nice, please no struts alike if you can :-)
14:17	hlship	hoping to make it highly parallel as well
14:17	hiredman	clojurebot: literal whose job
14:17	clojurebot	whose job is it to make you talk to twitter correctly
14:17	hiredman	clojurebot: forget whose job
14:17	clojurebot	I forgot whose job
14:17	hlship	nope; maybe more like Stripes perhaps
14:17	hlship	but with T5 templates
14:17	hlship	coming together nicely
14:17	hiredman	~whose job is <reply>that is #someone's job
14:17	clojurebot	Roger.
14:18	hiredman	clojurebot: whose job is it to make you talk to twitter correctly?
14:18	clojurebot	Ik begrijp
14:18	hiredman	bah
14:18	hlship	up on GitHub: http://wiki.github.com/hlship/cascade
14:18	hiredman	clojurebot: whose job would it be to make you talk to twitter correctly?
14:18	clojurebot	that is kotarak's job
14:19	hlship	#tapestry
14:19	hlship	(oops)
14:20	nurey_mac	hlship: it cascade was out and 2 years mature, I would have tried to recommend it. I'm not having fun with rails,grails jsp style templates :-(
14:22	dnolen	nurey_mac: have you looked Enlive? I have a distaste for mixing code and markup. Enlive solves that particularly problem nicely.
14:22	technomancy	enlive is awesome
14:22	nurey_mac	thanks guys, I'll read about it
14:23	stuartsierra	:-Dc.c.json.write is now a little faster than clojure-json
14:23	stuartsierra	You have to call it a few thousand times to see the effects, though.
14:24	danlarkin	stuartsierra: sweet, now just clean up that ugly api :)
14:25	replaca	stuartsierra: did you get that big cond out of there? A table would speed things up
14:25	stuartsierra	No more conds.
14:25	technomancy	stuartsierra: thoughts on using keywords as map keys instead of strings?
14:25	replaca	stuartsierra: yay!
14:25	stuartsierra	technomancy: Use c.c.walk/keywordize-keys
14:26	stuartsierra	replaca: ok, one small cond, but mostly multimethods
14:35	stuartsierra	technomancy: ok, you talked me into it. Bind json-keyword-keys to true.
14:36	technomancy	stuartsierra: nice! =)
14:37	technomancy	stuartsierra: it's weird since JS treats object keys as strings, but when you use dot notation it suggests keywords/symbols
14:37	clojurebot	http://clojure.org/data_structures#toc8
14:37	stuartsierra	I'm reluctant to do that, b/c there's no way to verify that a string makes a valid keyword.
14:37	technomancy	stuartsierra: oh! I have a patch for that
14:37	stuartsierra	What if the string is something like "foo/bar"? Do you get a namespaced keyword?
14:38	technomancy	clojurebot: issue #13
14:38	clojurebot	Titim gan �ir� ort.
14:38	technomancy	hiredman: he should get hooked up to google code. =)
14:38	technomancy	http://code.google.com/p/clojure/issues/detail?id=13&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Priority%20Reporter%20Owner%20Summary
14:38	technomancy	hiredman: is there any way to get templated clojurebot replies?
14:39	technomancy	something like clojurebot: issue (\d) is<reply>http://code.google.com/p/clojure/issues/detail?id=\1
14:39	danlarkin	I don't like this issue :) I like being able to create symbols/keywords that aren't readable
14:40	technomancy	danlarkin: sure; just use (. clojure.lang.Symbol (intern ns name))
14:40	technomancy	but you need to know what you're doing
14:40	danlarkin	technomancy: oh yes, that's just as convenient as 'foo :)
14:41	stuartsierra	http://clojure.org/todo mentions "arbitrary symbols in \| \|" but Rich has wavered on this.
14:46	replaca	stuartsierra: I sometimes wonder if multimethods are just a fancy syntax for cond :-)
14:48	cemerick	replaca: everything is just a fancy syntax for cond ;-)
14:50	twism	agrees with danlarkin that json-keyword-keys default should be true
14:51	twism	but stu brings up a good point about "foo/bar" json keys
14:56	stuartsierra	Also, I don't want to change the API if I can help it.
15:00	technomancy	well contrib isn't 1.0 yet... so if you're going to change the API, now's the time. =)
15:01	stuartsierra	yeah, I'll think about it.
15:01	danlarkin	at least make it consistent :)
15:01	stuartsierra	consistent?
15:02	danlarkin	well there's read-json-string to read and then json-str to write
15:03	stuartsierra	That follows read-string and str in Clojure.
15:03	danlarkin	it's gross :-o
15:03	stuartsierra	yes
15:12	stuartsierra	ok, now read-json takes a string too.
15:13	stuartsierra	That leaves read-json, print-json, and json-str.
15:13	danlarkin	read-json and write-json? pretty please
15:13	danlarkin	mmm
15:14	stuartsierra	print-, not write-, because it prints to out
15:15	danlarkin	:)
15:18	stuartsierra	So I guess it should be called c.c.json.print, but whatever.
15:21	metasyntax\|work	If I do (ns foo.bar.Test (:gen-class)) and then (compile 'foo.bar.Test) I get a java.io.IOException: No such file or directory (Test.clj:1)
15:22	metasyntax\|work	Running `java -cp ... clojure.main` from a directory such that it has children foo/bar/Test.clj beneath it.
15:24	hoeck	metasyntax\|work: bind compile-path to a dir where the compiled classes should go
15:25	hoeck	metasyntax\|work: like (binding [compile-path "."] (compile 'foo.bar.Test))
15:25	hoeck	metasyntax\|work: where "." must be on the classpath
15:26	metasyntax\|work	Ah, I see. I think the IOException was because compile-path didn't exist.
15:26	metasyntax\|work	So compile-path must both exist and be in the CLASSPATH for compile to work it seems.
15:27	hoeck	metasyntax\|work: it's bound to "classes", but the "./classes" dir is probably not in your classpath
15:27	hoeck	metasyntax\|work: so it compiles the namespace but fails to load it after compiling
15:27	metasyntax\|work	hoeck: That was a second-step problem, first I had to make the "classes" directory.
15:27	metasyntax\|work	hoeck: But you're right, thank you.
15:28	hoeck	metasyntax\|work: np :)
15:43	durka42	cool, they're getting ready to ship the book :)
15:53	twism	how would you set json-keyword-keys
15:53	twism	?
15:53	stuartsierra	binding or alter-var-root
15:53	twism	without (bind [json-keyword-keys ....
15:53	twism	ah
15:53	twism	what happened to set!
15:54	stuartsierra	set! won't change root bindings
15:55	twism	oh i just couldnt find set! in the api
15:55	twism	on the website
15:55	twism	,(doc set!)
15:55	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: set! in this context
15:55	stuartsierra	http://clojure.org/java_interop#set
15:56	twism	thats my bad...
15:56	twism	set! is java interop
15:56	stuartsierra	no prob
15:56	stuartsierra	Not exactly, it's a special form. It works on thread-bound vars.
15:59	twism	meant <twism> without (binding [json-keyword-keys* ....
15:59	twism	just correcting
16:02	metasyntax\|work	With gen-class, how do I specify a static method?
16:03	metasyntax\|work	I tried putting #^{:static true} into the metadata of the function but Java still claims it's non-static.
16:04	metasyntax\|work	Something like (defn -test #^{:static true} ([x y] (+ x y))).
16:04	mattrepl	metasyntax\|work: are you putting it in the function definition or the function signature
16:04	mattrepl	it needs to go in the signature
16:06	metasyntax\|work	mattrepl: where do I put it there? in the parameter list?
16:07	mattrepl	at the the start, the #^ will attach the metadata to the next object, which will be the signature of the function you want to be static
16:07	metasyntax\|work	mattrepl: OK, I see. Thanks!
16:08	mattrepl	=)
16:09	twism	stuartsierra: sorry about my ignorance... but what am i doing wrong here
16:09	twism	(alter-var-root clojure.contrib.json.read/json-keyword-keys (fn [] true))
16:09	metasyntax\|work	First time using Clojure here, it's very cool. The closer I can get to Scheme while still doing work the better.
16:14	stuhood	twism: the function needs to take the current state as an argument
16:15	stuhood	twism: try: (alter-var-root clojure.contrib.json.read/json-keyword-keys (fn [_] true))
16:15	triddell	\
16:17	stuartsierra	yes
16:17	stuartsierra	(alter-var-root #^clojure.contrib.json.read/json-keyword-keys (fn [_] true))
16:18	stuartsierra	Or wrap read-json in your own function with a binding.
16:19	twism	thanks
16:24	kotarak	Did anyone encounter trouble with the latest clojure revisions? /Users/mb/Documents/Projects/Clojure/vimclojure/build.xml:66: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: clojure/core$this__4984__auto____4601 (util.clj:23)
16:24	kotarak	Line 23 is the ns clause of the file.
16:25	twism	loves when all the tests pass
16:26	twism	thanks stuhood and stuartsierra
16:29	Chousuke	kotarak: you sure you have everything properly compiled? :)
16:30	kotarak	Chousuke: I thought so, but it seems the jar is incomplete...
16:31	kotarak	which is funny because the ant target uses <fileset dir="${classes.dir}" includes="*/"/>
16:33	kotarak	Hmm.. I think, I'm annoyed by the recent changes to the ns makro. :(
16:36	unlink	kotarak: what changes
16:36	kotarak	The ns makro now creates an anonymous function, which blows up for me for some reason.
16:41	kotarak	Obviously the ns makro generates .class files which somehow vanish on my system. At least the code references this__ classes like the above, which do not exist.
16:42	Chousuke	kotarak: 1367 introduces the class you're missing.
16:42	kotarak	I'm using 1368 and the class names change...
16:43	Chousuke	I mean, it introduces the change that breaks clojure for you
16:43	kotarak	They come from the anonymous this# function in the ns makro. Which obviously generates an anonymous function per namespace.
16:43	kotarak	Chousuke: yes. The change breaks things.
16:44	Chousuke	since it introduces an autogensym "this#" inside an anonymous function, which is what you seem to be missing.
16:44	Chousuke	might be a clojure bug :p
16:44	kotarak	I'm not really missing it: there are several of this core$this... functions. But not those needed, it seems.
16:44	Chousuke	yeah, so maybe the compiler is getting confused by it :/
16:48	mattrepl	do a find for the ones it's looking for, maybe they're getting written somewhere else?
16:51	kotarak	Ok. I found the class, and I know why it's not included in the jar.
16:53	kotarak	Rich really makes it hard to split contrib into smaller jars. :(
16:57	stuartsierra	Didn't someone successfully split contrib into small jars using maven?
16:58	kotarak	I did using Ivy. But the anonymous this# doesn't allow to assign them to the correct jar.
16:58	stuartsierra	ah
16:59	kotarak	I have to make a general ns-jar which contains all this_bla .classes. :(
17:00	kotarak	Proxy is although such an annoyance. :(
17:00	kotarak	s/although/also/
17:07	unlink	Is there any reason the type annotation reader macro #^ doesn't understand primitive types?
17:08	stuartsierra	unlink: dunno, but you can use the int/byte/short/... functions to the same effect.
17:08	unlink	right
17:08	kotarak	I think for primitives the way is (let [x (int i)] ...)
17:08	unlink	It just seems silly to have 2 parallel idioms
17:08	stuhood	agreed.
17:10	kotarak	o.O clojure.core/types$...? Oh dear.... -.-
17:15	Chousuke	unlink: #^Foo x is a type hint; (foo x) is a coercion
17:16	unlink	Chousuke: What semantic difference are you trying to express?
17:16	unlink	AFAIK to the application programmer they are the same except they operate on different types.
17:16	Chousuke	(int x) makes x a native int; normally it's of the class Integer (you'd type it as #^Integer)
17:17	unlink	and therefore...?
17:17	Chousuke	if you just did #^int x, it'd be wrong, since x would actually be Integer
17:18	Chousuke	without the (int x) coercion that is
17:18	unlink	Which is counter-intuitive. I'm suggesting that #^int be changed to mean something like (let [i (int i)] ...)
17:19	Chousuke	er, but that's what it is already.
17:19	Chousuke	#^int doesn't exist :p
17:20	Chousuke	I suppose there's some mismatch with the array types having type hints
17:20	unlink	#^int means "cast me to the type int as needed"
17:20	danlarkin	unlink: but that's not what #^Integer means
17:21	unlink	Except here "the type int" has to be a user-defined type.
17:21	Chousuke	that would conflict with the meaning of #^Foo right now.
17:21	danlarkin	type hints aren't coercive
17:21	Chousuke	that's the main difference
17:22	Chousuke	type hints are just metadata; (int ..) etc are actual operations.
17:22	unlink	yes
17:23	Chousuke	if you want type casts for classes, use cast :)
17:26	danlarkin	cast doesn't do that
17:52	ieure	Hm. So kotarak suggested that I try to use doseq to solve my SQL OOM issue, but I'm having problems with that. (with-query-results) doesn't return the result sequence, and I can't seem to return it from the body.
17:53	ieure	And doing: (with-query-results rs [query] (doseq rs (fn [row] ...))) fails with: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: Symbol
17:53	ieure	Ideas?
17:54	hiredman	ieure: have you read the doc string for doseq?
17:54	hiredman	,(doc doseq)
17:54	clojurebot	"([seq-exprs & body]); Repeatedly executes body (presumably for side-effects) with bindings and filtering as provided by \"for\". Does not retain the head of the sequence. Returns nil."
17:54	ieure	hiredman, I read the API documentation, which is much the same.
17:55	hiredman	with bindings and filtering as provided by \"for\"
17:55	hiredman	anyway
17:55	dnolen	so why does this work again?
17:55	dnolen	,((ref +) 3 4)
17:55	clojurebot	7
17:55	hiredman	you are using it wrong
17:55	hiredman	dnolen: refs dispatch invoke to their values, I believe
17:56	dnolen	why them an not atoms?
17:56	hiredman	,((ref #{1 2 3}) 1)
17:56	clojurebot	1
17:56	dnolen	and not atoms
17:56	hiredman	,((atom #{1}) 1)
17:56	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Atom cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
17:56	hiredman	dunnp
17:56	ieure	hiredman, I'm sure I'm doing lots wrong, I really am not comfortable with Clojure yet.
17:56	hiredman	possibly it got overlooked
17:57	hiredman	ieure: (doseq [i (some collection/seq here)] do stuff to i here)
17:57	hiredman	,(doseq [i (range 10)] (print i))
17:57	hiredman	ugh
17:57	hiredman	,well?
17:57	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: well? in this context
17:58	hiredman	ugh
17:58	hiredman	I guess I should fix that
18:02	hiredman	,(doseq [i (range 10)] (print i))
18:02	clojurebot	0123456789
18:04	ieure	hiredman, I think I have it. It's running now, I'll see if it OOMs.
18:04	ieure	hiredman, Thanks for the pointer.
18:04	hiredman	sure
18:04	ieure	Still OOMs.
18:05	hiredman	can you pastebin the code?
18:05	hiredman	lisppaste8: url?
18:05	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
18:05	lisppaste8	ieure pasted "OOMing" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80247
18:06	hiredman	how large are reach of the rows in the database?
18:07	ieure	16 cols per row, 155k rows.
18:07	hiredman	but, like, how much data is in each row?
18:09	ieure	Could be anywhere from 100 bytes to 1kb or so.
18:09	hiredman	hmmm
18:10	hiredman	I would remove the tokyo stuff, and just (doseg [row rs] (prn row))
18:11	hiredman	to see if it is the result set
18:17	lisppaste8	ieure annotated #80247 "Still OOMing" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80247#1
18:21	ieure	hiredman, Any thoughts?
18:21	ieure	Seems like the whole resultset is buffered, since I get "Running," a wait, and an OOM. I never see a single row printed.
18:23	hiredman	hmmm
18:23	hiredman	ieure: sounds like it's time to up the memory limit on the jvm
18:26	ieure	hiredman, Crazy talk. 155k rows is my test data; I need this to handle 25m rows. Jacking up the memory limit isn't a solution.
18:27	ieure	I don't understand why rows can't be fetched individually and processed. This is the normal way one processes large datasets.
18:28	Chousuke	Sounds like you'll have to use the resultset directly, without wrapping it in a seq
18:29	dnolen	isn't it possible to use loop recur here?
18:29	dnolen	and dump the stuff you're not using?
18:29	dnolen	process element, (rest coll)
18:29	ieure	Chousuke, Not sure how to do that. I was trying (map), but it OOM'd, too.
18:30	Chousuke	if it's OOMing before you get anything printed, the problem might be with how with-query-result makes the seq
18:30	ieure	Chousuke, That seems to be the case, I'm retrying with just a (prn "Done") as the body. Looks like it's going to die, too.
18:31	hiredman	~def with-query-result
18:31	hiredman	ouch
18:31	Chousuke	results
18:31	Chousuke	~def with-query-results
18:31	Chousuke	~def with-query-results*
18:31	ieure	Looks like it's using (resultset-seq)
18:32	ieure	http://code.google.com/p/clojure-contrib/source/browse/trunk/src/clojure/contrib/sql/internal.clj#172
18:33	Chousuke	~def resultset-seq
18:33	hiredman	whoops
18:33	hiredman	damn
18:34	Chousuke	looks like it ought to be fine.
18:36	ieure	Yet it isn't.
18:37	hiredman	~def resultset-seq
18:38	ieure	I'm using Clojure 1.0.0 and -contrib from SVN as of 05/04.
18:38	Cark	good evening
18:38	Chousuke	actually I think the "rs" will hold to the head of the seq, but it shouldn't OOM before you've done work with it...
18:42	Chousuke	instead of using (doseq [comment rs]), try using (if-let [comm (first rs)] (do (prn (genkey comm)) (recur (rest rs))))
18:43	Chousuke	the with-query-result body is wrapped in a lambda so it's a recur target
18:44	Chousuke	I'm not sure if the rs reference to the head is the real problem but my guess is that using recur should avoid that problem at least
18:46	ieure	Chousuke, But the code OOMs even with just: (sql/with-connection db (sql/with-query-results rs [query] (prn "Done.")))
18:46	Cark	a quick question : i need to parse text files, regexes won't do, should i use joshua choi's fnparse or kotka's parser ?
18:47	Cark	speed is not an issue, i'm looking for ease of use
18:47	hiredman	haven't seen kotka's, but fnparse is pretty nice
18:47	Chousuke	is kotarak's parser actually usable nowadays?
18:47	Chousuke	last time I looked at it it was rather outdated.
18:47	Chousuke	fnparse seems fine. it's using monads nowadays too :)
18:47	Cark	ok well thanks you 2, i'll go for fnparse then =)
18:48	hiredman	I am using an older version of fnparse
18:48	hiredman	I think fnparse might currenlty be in the process of a rewrite to use monads or some other foolishnish
18:48	hiredman	ness
18:48	hiredman	:P
18:48	Chousuke	:p
18:49	Chousuke	monads are nice for parsing, though.
18:49	Cark	yep they say so
18:49	Cark	as long as i don't need to fully grok monads =P
18:49	Chousuke	nah :p
18:50	lisppaste8	ieure annotated #80247 "Still OOMing" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80247#2
18:51	ieure	Chousuke, There's got to be something wrong with with-query-results, it OOMs no matter what's in the body.
18:51	Chousuke	hmm :/
18:51	Chousuke	unfortunately, I can't tell what it is.
18:51	hiredman	ieure: sounds like it's time to up the memory limit on the jvm
18:52	ieure	hiredman, Right, but that shouldn't be a problem unless it buffers every row.
18:52	hiredman	you don't know that it is a linear thing
18:52	Chousuke	ieure: it might even be that it's not the seq that is the problem.
18:52	Chousuke	or maybe it's generating too many thunks :>
18:53	ieure	Well, it works with LIMIT 5 in the query. :P
18:54	Chousuke	you could actually try changing doseq to dorun
18:54	Chousuke	er
18:54	Chousuke	...
18:54	Chousuke	never mind
18:55	hiredman	you know the default jvm memory limit is only 128MB
18:56	Chousuke	hiredman: that shouldn't be a problem, because it should never hold that much stuff in memory in the first place.
18:56	ieure	Right.
18:56	Chousuke	unless ResultSet itself caches too much
18:56	Chousuke	which is a possibility.
18:57	ctdean	What's an easy way to look at memory usage in the repl?
18:57	Chousuke	it might be that you're just very close to the memory ceiling before you create the resultset
18:57	ieure	I really don't want to solve this the ghetto way.
18:57	ieure	Chousuke, This is the only code I'm running.
19:00	Chousuke	hm :/
19:01	Chousuke	I really can't say aything more.
19:01	Chousuke	the resultset-seq looks okay, so...
19:01	ieure	Well, fuck.
19:01	dnolen	ieure: post your problem to the list, some more eyes there as well.
19:02	ieure	dnolen, Yeah, I was going to see about opening a ticket, too.
19:02	Chousuke	All I can think of anymore is that it's ResultSet itself that runs out of memory.
19:02	dnolen	ieure: don't bother with a ticket, until people have looked at it.
19:02	ieure	dnolen, When you say list, do you mean the Google group?
19:02	Chousuke	yeah.
19:02	dnolen	ieure: yes.
19:10	hlship	I love lazy collections ... right up until my code loses all sense of cause and effect and I can't find the problem even w/ the debugger
19:55	eee	anyone here use clojure-dev?
19:55	eee	it seems to come with some of contrib but not all
19:55	eee	is that right?
19:56	memoize	today, i just quit my dayjob so i can work on clojure projects full time at home :)
19:56	eee	awesome
19:56	eee	i've thought of that
19:56	eee	haven't done it
19:56	eee	what's your main project?
19:57	memoize	nothing in particular, im a clojure noob
19:57	eee	wow
19:57	memoize	just want to retrain my mind to think in clojure, so now i've got until the end of 2010
19:57	eee	you are welcome to help me with my stuff, if you like
19:58	eee	i'm a noob to clj, too
19:58	memoize	i'd like to replace all my unix interaction with a clojure repl shell tho
19:58	eee	interesting
19:58	memoize	so that i'm always in clojure on the computer, live breathe it, dont use any other tools
19:59	eee	are you a lisper?
19:59	eee	or new to that too
19:59	memoize	no, i come from the land of python and perl
19:59	eee	what's the best way to get the latest contrib?
19:59	memoize	svn update from the google project?
20:00	eee	i don't really want to build it
20:00	eee	i could do that
20:00	eee	if it builds ok
20:00	durka42	http://clojure-contrib.googlecode.com/svn/trunk
20:00	durka42	actually there might be a jar there
20:00	memoize	eee: it's just "ant" command, pretty easy
20:00	durka42	not sure
20:00	durka42	and it does build very easily
20:00	eee	ok
20:00	memoize	eee: i can put up jar files for you if you're that lazy :)
20:00	eee	i guess i could get ant for my mac
20:00	durka42	where "build" means "zip up all the sources in a jar" unless you pass -Dclojure.jar=/path/to/clojure.jar on the command line
20:01	memoize	durka42: does that option update clojure.jar to include clojure-contrib ?
20:01	eee	i'm working from eclipde
20:01	durka42	memoize: no, it compiles contrib against clojure.jar
20:01	eee	so I'll want a jar of class files . . . unless contrib is all clj?
20:02	durka42	the sources are all clj of coures
20:02	durka42	course*
20:02	eee	i wouldn't have guessed that actually
20:02	memoize	i bet you can just point CLASSPATH to the contrib source and svn update regularly
20:02	durka42	i think eclipse can integrate with ant
20:03	eee	i'll try that
20:03	eee	yeah
20:03	durka42	memoize: that might work
20:03	memoize	eee: but you would need to get used to ant anyways if youwant to track clojure trunk; you working only against 1.0?
20:04	eee	i don't pay attention . . . whatever eclipse-dev uses
20:04	memoize	make sure its at least using 1.0 if you don't care :)
20:05	eee	gonna try svn
20:07	eee	what are .cs files, I see in the console, I wonder
20:07	eee	clojure source?
20:07	chessguy	csharp? :)
20:07	eee	good guess
20:07	eee	chessguy! long time
20:08	eee	i got the a-star done
20:08	chessguy	cool
20:08	eee	hmmmmm i remember seeing a graph package
20:09	eee	gonna do some prims or djikstra now
20:10	eee	i see. i didn't realize a bunch of stuff would just be at the clojure-contrib level
20:10	eee	as files
20:11	eee	that's wjere graph is
20:12	technomancy	I've got to say, I'm not a fan of the deps.zip approach
20:12	durka42	i believe that's why package managers were invented
20:12	technomancy	durka42: yeah, tell me about it
20:12	danlarkin	finally, someone agrees with me :)
20:13	technomancy	unfortunately one of the dependencies is a proprietary amazon jar that's not extant in any public repositories. =(
20:13	technomancy	durka42: I was playing around with "corkscrew"
20:13	technomancy	it vaguely sounds like something you'd use to manage jars
20:13	durka42	enclojures and clojureboxes are taken
20:14	technomancy	durka42: mvn does a great job modulo the act of writing a bunch of XML
20:14	technomancy	I think we could wrap mvn in a delicious sexp layer and get something fairly rockin'
20:15	technomancy	danlarkin: did you see the pom I put in clojure-http-client?
20:15	danlarkin	technomancy: I saw that you added it, but didn't look at it
20:16	technomancy	danlarkin: dysinger created clojure-pom which acts as a sort of base setup for any clojure project, and I just build from that.
20:16	technomancy	basically all you do is add contrib (if you use it), and you're good to go. ends up being like four lines.
20:17	danlarkin	but do you need dysinger's thing installed somewhere or something?
20:18	technomancy	danlarkin: yeah, for now, but I'm going to get him to push it to a public repository so you won't need to do anything but "mvn install"
20:19	technomancy	danlarkin: what do you do for dependencies?
20:20	danlarkin	technomancy: in terms of libraries I write? just list them in the readme. In terms of dep management for myself, ~/clojure/src/
20:21	eee	this was a whole can of worms wanting to depend on contrib
20:21	eee	i find a lot of time always spent on config.
20:21	technomancy	danlarkin: so if you're writing an application that depends on clojure-json, then you just manually copy all the .clj files into src/ or deps/ of your project so it's on the classpath? or what.
20:22	eee	so if someone else did your config, then yes, clojure serves as a great functional language where you spend most of your time in your domain in your business rules, etc.
20:22	eee	but that's a big if
20:22	danlarkin	technomancy: oh, no, my clj script adds add src/ directories and .jars in ~/clojure/src/ to the classpath
20:23	technomancy	gotcha
20:31	memoize	eee: there's nothing holding contrib back from using the latest goodies, nor would we want to until they decide on a 1.0 release
20:31	eee	i figured out my main problem
20:32	eee	you can't see things in the namespace browser until you 'use' them
20:32	eee	my next problem is: where would tests be if there are any. like so I can see usage
20:33	eee	i'd like to understand the clojure-contrib.graph thingy (namespace?)
20:33	technomancy	eee: I have a test/ dir in the project toplevel next to src/
20:34	technomancy	then the namespaces in test/ map to those in src but with the second-to-last segment being test
20:34	technomancy	so org.clojure.foo is in src/org/clojure/foo.clj and tested with org.clojure.test.foo in test/org/clojure/test/foo.clj
20:34	eee	i found this. is that what you mean? wasn't nect to src http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en#oduOV9Ab97s/trunk/src/clojure/contrib/test_contrib/test_graph.clj&q=graph%20package:http://clojure-contrib\.googlecode\.com
20:35	technomancy	contrib does it differently
20:35	eee	ok
20:35	eee	i get it, you were answering as to what your convention is
20:36	technomancy	oh, thought you were asking how to structure your own stuff
20:36	eee	i was looking specifically for the graph tests, but that is good to know that you are conscious of a need for a convention
20:36	eee	yeah, sorry
20:37	technomancy	I don't like how contrib does it because I need to be able to calculate the namespace that tests a given namespace and vice versa so I can teach my editor how to toggle between tests and implementation.
20:37	eee	sounds like you are at an advanced level
20:37	technomancy	advanced elisp maybe. =)
20:38	technomancy	not being able to toggle between test and impl sucks though
20:38	eee	i always say emacs is the reason lisp isn't more popular (ducking yet again)
20:38	technomancy	after working with clojure elisp feels a bit like tarzan-speak
20:38	eee	cntl-s doesn't save
20:38	eee	so it's broken
20:39	eee	copy and paste are broken too
20:39	durka42	c-x c-s
20:39	eee	because they aren't cntl-c and cntl-v
20:39	technomancy	eee: the kill ring is far more powerful than "standard" clipboard mechanisms; gimme a break.
20:39	eee	so most users punt in 5 seconds
20:39	durka42	(aquamacs still has cmd-s bound to save :))
20:40	technomancy	but elisp feels like "me get list. me alter list. you wait while I/O blocks process without concurrency primitives."
20:40	eee	i'm sure it's better
20:40	eee	than most windows tools
20:41	Raynes	After working with Clojure, Scala feels like a scary new world where I'm lost and I can't find the golden coconut that will take me back home. But I'm getting used to object orientation now, so I'm having fun learning Scala. I just miss Clojure.
20:41	technomancy	well lots of people claim that swing is "broken" because it doesn't look like the rest of the OS. different isn't necessarily broken.
20:41	technomancy	if everything has to be the same as what you're used to, then it causes stagnation.
20:42	eee	that's covered well in two of my favorite books
20:42	eee	zen and the art of MM
20:42	technomancy	Raynes: you have to give the red key to the guard, then you can get to the room with the golden coconut.
20:42	eee	and the sequel
20:43	technomancy	Raynes: watch out for grues though.
20:43	eee	so what's the deal with structs
20:44	eee	i know that makes no sense
20:44	eee	but
20:44	eee	i'm not really sure what I do
20:44	eee	(struct directed-graph #{:a :b :c :d :e} {:c #{:b :a} :e #{:c} :d #{:c :e} :b #{:d :a} :a #{:d :b}})))
20:45	eee	so then I (let) something to a 'directed graph' struct
20:45	eee	and then call functions on it?
20:45	Raynes	technomancy: Thanks!
20:45	guinea	What's the best way to construct and print a string that has number in it, in the form of java integers?
20:45	durka42	(doc format)
20:45	clojurebot	"([fmt & args]); Formats a string using java.lang.String.format, see java.util.Formatter for format string syntax"
20:46	durka42	,(format "%d" 3)
20:46	clojurebot	"3"
20:46	guinea	sweet. thanks!
20:46	danlarkin	eee: structs are not classes
20:48	Raynes	danlarkin is a class!
20:51	arohner	if I call (fn inside a function body, does that create a new fn every time the function is called?
20:52	danlarkin	arohner: pretty sure it does, yes
20:53	arohner	but it's only compiled the one time?
20:53	arohner	i.e. each run through the function creates another instance of class fn_12345, and all instances of class fn_12345 have the same bytecode?
20:54	guinea	how should I print a newline?
20:55	arohner	guinea: (println) ?
20:55	arohner	you can also do (println "foo bar"), but that doesn't have the formatting options of (format)
20:56	durka42	or put \n at the end of the string
20:56	dreish	arohner: Yes, it is only compiled once, by eval.
20:57	guinea	durka42: \n didn't work within format. I was just reading the javadoc for it. But a separate println after the (.write (format ...)) would work.
20:58	arohner	guinea: are you trying to print to the screen?
20:58	arohner	,(print (format "first line\nsecond line"))
20:58	clojurebot	first line second line
20:58	arohner	ok... that works on my terminal
20:59	guinea	arohner: no, to a java filewriter
20:59	hiredman	clojurebot tends to eat newlines
20:59	arohner	guinea: are you on windows?
21:00	hiredman	~newline
21:00	clojurebot	thanks; that was delicious. (nom nom nom)
21:00	durka42	(System/getProperty "line.separator")
21:02	guinea	oh, it does work in newline
21:02	guinea	I just did it wrong
21:02	guinea	I mean, newline works within format
21:02	guinea	arohner: no, linux
21:34	guinea	~newline
21:34	clojurebot	thanks; that was delicious. (nom nom nom)
21:35	technomancy	that's a new one
21:38	dreish	,(println "In reference to the fact that clojurebot\neats\nnewlines.")
21:38	clojurebot	In reference to the fact that clojurebot eats newlines.
21:39	cp2	i wish clojurebot would be my friend
21:39	durka42	clojurebot: whose job is it to be cp2's friend?
21:39	clojurebot	Alles klar
21:40	durka42	that used to work
21:40	cp2	:(
21:40	dreish	~whose job
21:40	clojurebot	whose job is it to be cp2's friend?
21:41	technomancy	clojurebot: whose job would it be to be cp2's friend?
21:41	clojurebot	whose job is it to be cp2's friend?
21:41	technomancy	clojurebot: stop copying me.
21:41	clojurebot	we can't stop here! this is bat country!
21:42	durka42	clojurebot: whose job is <reply>that's <someone>'s job
21:42	clojurebot	Ack. Ack.
21:42	durka42	~whose job
21:42	clojurebot	that's <someone>'s job
21:42	Raynes	LOL
21:42	Raynes	Fear and Loathing.
21:43	hiredman	~who's job would it be to right the wrongs of the world?
21:43	clojurebot	what the world needs is more higher order functions
21:44	hiredman	:\
21:44	technomancy	he has a point though
21:44	hiredman	indeed
21:46	dnolen	technomancy: do you have any good examples of parsing lines from a file using elisp? You seem to be the resident elisp expert :)
21:46	technomancy	dnolen: what kind of file?
21:47	technomancy	I did something sort of like that in my couchdb client, though it's very simplistic.
21:47	dnolen	just a text file, I'm sick of managing my classpath by hand.
21:47	dnolen	I'm building a simple library management system using GAE
21:47	dnolen	so that I can type
21:47	dnolen	(install 'library-name)
21:48	dnolen	from the REPL.
21:48	dnolen	but in order this to work in Emacs I need all classpaths to be a text file.
21:48	dnolen	in a text file.
21:48	durka42	how does GAE come in to that?
21:48	technomancy	dnolen: in a nutshell: (save-excursion (while (search-forward-regexp my-pattern nil t) (do-something-with (string-match 1))))
21:49	dnolen	no having to pay for hosting.
21:49	dnolen	technomancy: that's if I have the file open already and loaded into a buffer correct? I found that much.
21:49	technomancy	err... hosting static files is very cheap. if you're worried about that I'll give you a shell account on my dreamhost. =)
21:50	technomancy	right; you'd need to find-file first
21:50	technomancy	dnolen: you can't do much with a file unless it's in a buffer
21:51	technomancy	you could also use url-retrieve if it's a remote file, relax.el has a few examples of that
21:52	dnolen	cool, the other advantage of GAE is just scalability (maybe hosting jars, jnis), speed, security. I don't want to have to code that either.
21:53	technomancy	I'd strongly advise against a library management system that needs a dynamic server. it's much easier to build up a set of static files.
21:54	technomancy	rubygems, maven, and elpa all go this route.
21:54	dnolen	hmm what do you mean by dynamic server?
21:55	technomancy	I mean more than a directory with files in it.
21:55	technomancy	if any user operation causes code to run outside of apache or nginx or whatever, it's more complicated than it needs to be
21:55	dnolen	like you mean on the client?
21:55	technomancy	sorry, server-side code
21:56	dnolen	basically I'm starting off just by creating a wiki, I'm not even hosting files in the beginning.
21:56	technomancy	oh, ok
21:56	dnolen	just a json data about a where a library lives.
21:56	durka42	unless it looks like a simple list of files on the server but you're faking it with some fancy database or whatever
21:56	technomancy	I assumed you were using GAE for dynamic responses to client requests.
21:56	dnolen	there's a client library that checks the server to resolve the library location.
21:56	dnolen	downloads the file, unzips, update the classpath.
21:57	technomancy	still missing the GAE connection
21:58	dnolen	just for the hell of it, I don't feel like hosting it myself, plus then people can also download the project from GitHub, develop locally to improve and it's easy to push up patches.
21:58	technomancy	gotcha
21:58	technomancy	dnolen: you should take a look at my corkscrew project
21:58	dnolen	link?
21:58	technomancy	http://github.com/technomancy/corkscrew
21:59	technomancy	it can already handle dependencies in git or svn or just grabbing a jar over HTTP
21:59	technomancy	planning on adding mvn repo support as another backend so transitive deps would work
21:59	technomancy	since that's where the real tricky stuff comes into play
22:00	technomancy	clojurebot: corkscrew is a proof-of-concept build system and dependency manager (http://github.com/technomancy/corkscrew)
22:00	clojurebot	Ik begrijp
22:00	dnolen	heh looks almost identical to what I'm doing in terms of lib def format :)
22:00	technomancy	heh
22:00	technomancy	let's join forces
22:01	dnolen	cool! I want this library thing fixed bad.
22:01	technomancy	actually the problem with corkscrew is that the fun stuff is basically done, the hard parts remaining are just integrating with the maven Java API
22:01	technomancy	dnolen: you're not the only one. =)
22:01	technomancy	I've been meaning to announce on the mailing list, but I was waiting till I had proof-of-concept mvn integration.
22:05	danlarkin	oof, I hate the 80/20 breaks
22:06	technomancy	danlarkin: yeah, if you ignore transitive deps, you can practically solve the problem in an afternoon.
22:07	danlarkin	I wish I could ignore 20% of the problems at work :)
22:10	technomancy	interesting article: http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/posts/scala-not-functional/
22:11	technomancy	makes a good case against the "Can't OOP and FP just get along well together?" mentality.
22:12	technomancy	danlarkin: care to take a look at corkscrew and comment?
22:12	technomancy	would love to get some more eyes on it.
22:14	danlarkin	technomancy: I very much like the idea
22:14	danlarkin	I will have to look at your implementation later, though
22:14	technomancy	right, no big deal
22:33	technomancy	how do folks generally do logging? just regular log4j?
22:41	arohner	technomancy: that's what I do
22:41	cp2	asdf etc
22:43	technomancy	arohner: it's struck me as kind of noisy out of the box, but I guess you can deal with that
22:43	arohner	yeah. I have a function that's just (log severity "type" "message")
22:44	arohner	and I could get that down smaller if I wanted
22:44	technomancy	oh, I meant the output format. =)
22:44	arohner	oh :-)
22:44	technomancy	in the context of some of the apache libs it was pretty spew-happy
22:44	arohner	yeah, that can be dealt with too
22:44	arohner	though I'm used to reading apache logs
22:44	arohner	that, and there are good log viewers out there
22:45	technomancy	like less? =)
22:45	technomancy	or grep -v INFO ? =)
22:46	arohner	:-)
22:52	technomancy	is it appropriate to release projects with the groupId of "org.clojure" even if it's not officially related to clojure?
22:57	jmaness	has anyone seen an exception like this when compiling .clj? Exception in thread "main" java.lang.IllegalStateException: get already refers to: #'clojure.core/get in namespace:
22:57	jmaness	"get" isn't even in the .clj file
22:58	technomancy	jmaness: are you "use"ing a library that defines a "get" function?
22:58	technomancy	typically you want to require it :as something instead
22:58	jmaness	ah probably so. clojure.http.resourcefully
22:59	technomancy	jmaness: yes... that would be my fault. =)
22:59	jmaness	ah ok cool thanks. I'll try "require"
22:59	technomancy	jmaness: I'm on the fence about that. I think it's cute and maps to HTTP well, but it's unfortunate that you can't "use" it like any other lib
22:59	technomancy	jmaness: the readme explains it.
23:00	technomancy	but... having to read the readme carefully to try out the library without getting errors is unfortunate.
23:00	technomancy	I might end up renaming it so you don't have that problem
23:00	jmaness	ah thanks. sorry I missed reading the README :)
23:01	technomancy	honestly I'd prefer it if clojure.core didn't define "get" since I perform HTTP get requests far more often than I use core's version of get.
23:01	technomancy	but that's unlikely to change. =)
23:02	bradford	i want a function that applies a map of functions to a map fo values of the same keys.
23:02	bradford	(def test-map {:a 10 :b 5})
23:02	bradford	(def test-fns {:a #(%1 > 5) :b #(%1 < 5)})
23:03	technomancy	(map #((test-fns %) (test-map %)) (keys test-map)) is that too verbose?
23:04	technomancy	jmaness: other than that silly get problem, is clojure-http-client working well for you?
23:04	technomancy	I'm interested in feedback for improving it.
23:05	durka42	bradford: (merge-with #(%1 %2) test-fns test-map)
23:05	technomancy	durka42: dang; that's slick
23:05	jmaness	technomancy: so far so good. I'm trying to get basic auth working
23:06	technomancy	jmaness: ah cool; I haven't done anything with auth yet.
23:06	technomancy	jmaness: patches welcome. =)
23:07	jmaness	technomancy: sure, I've cloned clojure-http-client, so as soon as I get something working, I'll send it your way
23:08	technomancy	cool. nothing like scratching your own itch.
23:11	bradford	i don't thing merge-with does what i want
23:12	durka42	then i misunderstood what you wanted :)
23:12	bradford	i think merge-with is for mergeing many maps and using a single function to resolve merging duplicate keys
23:13	bradford	what i am doing here is applying each function in a map fo function to each value in a map of values
23:13	durka42	so the way i called merge-with above, on duplicate keys it uses #(%1 %2), which is function application
23:13	technomancy	bradford: ah, so every function gets called with every value?
23:14	bradford	right
23:14	technomancy	yeah that's different
23:14	durka42	what does (magic test-fns test-map) return?
23:14	technomancy	how would the return value look?
23:14	technomancy	sounds two-dimensional
23:15	bradford	theresult of this function for the example I gave is {:a true :b false}
23:15	danlarkin	resourcefully/get strikes again!
23:15	durka42	Clojure=> (merge-with #(%1 %2) test-fns test-map)
23:15	durka42	{:a true, :b false}
23:15	technomancy	danlarkin: you can say I told you so now. =)
23:16	technomancy	rename it to hget?
23:16	bradford	durka42: i get: .Integer cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
23:16	durka42	bradford: fix the functions in test-fns
23:17	bradford	durka42: bwaahahahah! thanks man
23:17	technomancy	hehe
23:17	technomancy	bradford: also: if a #() fn has only one arg you can use % rather than %1
23:19	eee	it looks like clojure-contrib.graph doesn't define weighted graphs?
23:19	eee	what if I wanted to add that concept?
23:25	eee	i guess I can use a hash-map instead of a hash-set for the neighbors
23:39	bradford	if i get: ({:a 1, :b 0} {:a 0, :b 1}) from a for expression...
23:39	bradford	and then try to pass it to something that expects a number of maps {} {} then how to pass it?
23:40	eee	expects a number of maps
23:40	eee	in a list?
23:40	eee	i fixed number?
23:40	eee	a
23:41	bradford	(defn counts [fns map] (merge-with #(+ %1 %2) (for [x map] (merge-with #(%1 %2) fns x))))
23:41	bradford	problem is with the outer merge-with
23:41	eee	it sounds like you are saying how do I send a list of maps to something that takes a list of maps
23:41	bradford	i know :-) ...it seems that way
23:41	eee	lemme look
23:42	bradford	(def test-fns {:a #(if (> % 5) 1 0) :b #(if (< % 5) 1 0)})
23:42	bradford
23:42	bradford	(def test-map [{:a 10 :b 5} {:a 4 :b 1}])
23:42	bradford	that are what i am passing to this counts fn
23:44	eee	,(doc merge-with)
23:44	clojurebot	"([f & maps]); Returns a map that consists of the rest of the maps conj-ed onto the first. If a key occurs in more than one map, the mapping(s) from the latter (left-to-right) will be combined with the mapping in the result by calling (f val-in-result val-in-latter)."
23:44	hiredman	bradford: you use apply
23:44	eee	i was thinking of reduce
23:45	bradford	(defn counts [fns map] (apply merge-with (cons #(+ %1 %2) (for [x map] (merge-with #(%1 %2) fns x)))))
23:45	bradford	using apply + cons
23:45	eee	reduce the list comprehension using merge-with as the function
23:45	bradford	seems like there must be a better solution to this little coding problem