#clojure – 2009-04-22

2009-04-22

00:04	brennanc	is there anything like find-doc but that has just the function names. It's really hard to read it when it outputs 20 pages
00:09	Jedi_Stannis	brennanc: not that I know of, shouldn't be too hard to write one
01:27	joha1	I'd like to use a syntax quote which doesn't try to resolve symbols. Is there any easy way of achieving this?
01:30	hiredman	uh, quote?
01:30	hiredman	,'(a b @(c d))
01:30	clojurebot	(a b (clojure.core/deref (c d)))
01:30	hiredman	or not
01:31	hiredman	why do you want syntax quote?
01:33	joha1	building a function that generates code from a template, and I want to insert some values deep inside the vector. Perhaps there is a better way
01:35	hiredman	zippers
01:36	joha1	what i'm looking for is something like `(xxx (yyy ~zzz))) -> (xxx (yyy 3)), but without symbol resolution (assuming zzz = 3)
01:36	joha1	zippers, eh? I'll see what I can find
01:36	hiredman	clojure.zip
01:37	hiredman	,(require '[clojure.zip :as zip])
01:37	clojurebot	nil
01:37	hiredman	,(zip/zip-vec '[a b c])
01:37	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: No such var: zip/zip-vec
01:37	joha1	yes of course, that should work. I looked into zip just a few hours ago. thanks for the hint
01:37	hiredman	,(-> '[a b c] zip/vec-zip zip/root)
01:37	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: No such var: zip/vec-zip
01:38	hiredman	bah
01:39	hiredman	,(ns-interns (find-ns 'zip))
01:39	clojurebot	java.lang.NullPointerException
01:40	hiredman	,(find-ns 'zip)
01:40	clojurebot	nil
01:40	hiredman	,(ns-interns (find-ns 'clojure.zip))
01:40	clojurebot	{lefts #'clojure.zip/lefts, down #'clojure.zip/down, insert-left #'clojure.zip/insert-left, up #'clojure.zip/up, next #'clojure.zip/next, path #'clojure.zip/path, children #'clojure.zip/children, vector-zip #'clojure.zip/vector-zip, append-child #'clojure.zip/append-child, zipper #'clojure.zip/zipper, branch? #'clojure.zip/branch?, end? #'clojure.zip/end?, leftmost #'clojure.zip/leftmost, edit #'clojure.zip/edit, replace
01:40	hiredman	,(-> '[a b c] zip/vector-zip zip/root)
01:40	clojurebot	[a b c]
01:40	hiredman	,(-> '[a b c] zip/vector-zip zip/left zip/left zip/root)
01:40	clojurebot	java.lang.NullPointerException
01:41	hiredman	,(-> '[a b c] zip/vector-zip zip/down zip/right zip/right (zip/replace 'z) zip/root)
01:41	clojurebot	[a b z]
02:06	hiredman	hmmm
02:06	hiredman	that is three commits of autodocs for rev 687
02:08	replaca	yeah, cause I'm doing more work on the robot than people are doing work on contrib
02:08	replaca	and google's lame-ass wiki doesn't have an offline preview tool
02:09	replaca	I can do some stuff editing in the text box and hitting preview, but only so much
02:09	hiredman	I see
02:09	replaca	if you want too see the current product, go to http://code.google.com/p/clojure-contrib/wiki/OverviewOfContrib
02:10	replaca	but it still has a long way to go
02:10	Cark	wah nice stuff you're doing there
02:11	hiredman	nice
02:11	replaca	thx
02:11	replaca	dealing with the google wiki is kind of a bear
02:11	replaca	all sorts of limitations I wouldn't have in HTML :-(
02:15	Cark	ah funny, so many functions in there i implemented on my own
02:15	replaca	the problem has been that contrib is so opaque! I'm trying to fix that
02:16	noidi	that's great!
02:16	noidi	the fixing, not the opaqueness ;)
02:16	replaca	:-)
02:16	noidi	grepping the sources gets old fast
02:18	replaca	know whatchya mean
02:26	cp2	bah, i lost my uptime
06:49	emacsen	hey pjb3
08:50	kadaver	what are hashmaps internally? red-black-trees?
08:52	cemerick	kadaver: they're hash array mapped tries
08:52	cemerick	the sorted hash maps are red-black trees, I think.
09:12	rhickey_	cemerick: right, sorted sets/maps are rb trees
09:22	cemerick	I haven't had a good brainfuck in a while, but implementing conses, lists, and map/reduce in terms of constraint propagation certainly qualifies...
10:49	postit	hi. i need a litte advice on which order to read some books
10:50	postit	["On Lisp","Practical Common Lisp","The Clojure book"]
10:51	Chouser	if you've already decided to learn Clojure, I think I'd start with the Clojure book
10:51	postit	i know the basics of lisp and functional programming
10:51	Chouser	I've never read PCL, so someone that has may have a different opinion
10:51	gnuvince	PCL is nothing really special and it's really tailored for Common Lisp
10:51	postit	do you know, does the clojure book just deal with syntax compared to other lisps?
10:52	gnuvince	I'd start with the Clojure book as well and if you need to, On Lisp.
10:52	gnuvince	postit: there's more to the Clojure book than just explanation of the syntax.
10:53	postit	ive decided on clojure, but i wanted to get a good understanding of the "lispy" way to design things too
10:53	arohner	postit: I would look at SICP then as well
10:53	gnuvince	postit: learn Clojure and read code by others
10:53	gnuvince	You'll pick it up.
10:54	arohner	but yeah, gnuvince is right. The clojure way of doing things is not exactly the same as CL or Scheme
10:54	Chouser	The Clojure Book is aims at both Lispers and Java'ers, so it explains how and why to do idiomatic Clojure
10:54	postit	i was wondering that to. if i could learn enough clojure from the "clojure book" to port other stuff as i read
10:55	Raynes	The Clojure book teaches Clojure very well. I learned out of it.
10:55	Chouser	yes, I think if you grok the clojure book material, "on lisp" will then still be useful and interesting.
10:55	postit	great, thanks guys!
11:04	dliebke	postit: the author of Programming Clojure, Stuart Halloway, also wrote some articles on porting examples from PCL to Clojure. http://blog.thinkrelevance.com/2008/9/16/pcl-clojure
11:04	rapido	,(count [1 2 3])
11:04	clojurebot	3
11:05	rapido	~confluently persistent
11:05	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
11:18	postit	is emacs/slime the preferred dev environment (at least if you use emacs)
11:21	djpowell	it is pretty good. i just use emacs + clojure-mode + the built-in M-x inferior-lisp
11:22	djpowell	clojuredev seems quite nice tho - i like the rainbow paren highlighting - anyway of doing that in emacs?
11:22	djpowell	clojure-dev for eclipse i mean
11:25	arohner	postit: if you're already an emacs user, then yes it's the best environment
11:25	arohner	I use emacs + slime, though inferior lisp works pretty well
11:26	arohner	what does rainbow paren highlighting do?
11:27	Chousuke	different colour for each paren pair.
11:27	arohner	on my emacs, if you put your cursor on a paren, bracket or brace, it highlights the matching one
11:27	arohner	but only when the cursor is on a paren
11:27	arohner	and it highlights in a different color when there is no match
11:28	djpowell	the rainbow paren thing in clojure-dev just syntax colors parens different colors depending on the nesting level - not only when the cursor is near them
11:31	Chousuke	anyway, it's pointless to ask if emacs can do something. you need to ask "where's the plugin?"
11:33	Chouser	and then, "why does it only work with xemacs"?
11:33	arohner	emacswiki.org has a section on paren modes: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/CategoryParentheses
12:42	gnuvince	Can anyone answer a Java question?
12:43	danlarkin	waste of a question :)
12:43	gnuvince	Well, whatever
12:43	gnuvince	I compiled a bunch of Java files.
12:43	gnuvince	That worked
12:44	gnuvince	when I do: java ClassName, I get an error telling my that package/ClassName is a "wrong name"
12:45	gnuvince	Exact message: $ java BinRepParser
12:45	gnuvince	Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: BinRepParser (wrong name: hu/belicza/andras/bwhf/control/BinRepParser)
12:50	hiredman	gnuvince: what package is the class in?
12:51	gnuvince	hu.belicza.andras.bwhf.control
12:51	hiredman	you need to include the package
12:51	hiredman	java hu.belicza.andras.bwhf.control.BinRepParser
12:51	gnuvince	ah<
12:52	gnuvince	thanks
12:52	brianh2	gnuvince: yeah. look @ this http://www.jarticles.com/package/package_eng.html
13:03	replaca	For those using emacs and slime, I strongly recommend paredit: http://mumble.net/~campbell/emacs/paredit.html, it's made for a huge leap in my programming happiness
13:03	replaca	(actually this is true even if you're not using slime)
13:14	gnuvince	AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
13:17	Lau_of_DK	Evening gents
13:21	technomancy	paredit is amazing.
13:22	technomancy	it makes me hate editing non-lisp code.
13:23	gnuvince	technomancy: it's neat, but I could not get used to it.
13:23	gnuvince	I'd need to spend more time using it
13:29	technomancy	gnuvince: only in the long run
13:29	stuhood	gnuvince: it waits longer to optimize, and can use more memory on optimizations
13:29	danlarkin	-server will use hotspot
13:29	gnuvince	technomancy: the largest bottleneck (20%) was FileInputStream.read; removing -server fixed the problem.
13:30	p_l	JVM 1.7 is supposed to always use the same optimization model as -server
13:31	technomancy	gnuvince: are you talking about my extract-jar function?
13:33	gnuvince	technomancy: no, my Starcraft parser.
13:34	technomancy	gnuvince: that was really weird, because I almost sent an email to the mailing list last night asking why a function that used FileInputStream.read was slow.
13:34	technomancy	I thought you were reading my mind.
13:34	dnolen	gnuvince is your project a one time run thing?
13:34	gnuvince	technomancy: I thought that I was nearly 20x slower than Java; turns out my Java was faulty and I wasn't analyzing any file. The number is now ~2.5-3x slower. And when I profiled both programs, -server was about twice as slow as -client
13:34	technomancy	nice
13:35	gnuvince	dnolen: currently, yes; give a bunch of files on the command line and it parses them.
13:36	dnolen	gnuvince: client speeds up startup time, server does really aggressive on the fly optimization. for long running processes server is usually better from what I understand.
13:36	technomancy	anyway, FileInputStream.read takes an array of bytes, but it won't accept a (make-array Byte 1000); it needs a (make-array Byte/TYPE 1000), but I have no idea what the difference is; I just copied it blindly. =)
13:37	gnuvince	technomancy: reference type vs value type. The first is a Byte[], the second a byte[] and apparently Java treats them differently.
13:38	technomancy	static typing saves the day again
13:39	technomancy	who knows what horrors would occur if I sent it bytes when it wanted Bytes.
13:39	technomancy	or vice versa
13:39	gnuvince	That's more of a "let's have primitives and objects" problem.
13:39	danlarkin	technomancy: this has nothing to do with static typing
13:39	danlarkin	it's strong typing vs weak typing, which is orthogonal to static vs dynamic
13:43	technomancy	oh, bytes are primitive, right.
13:46	Chousuke	having the primitive types is a nasty JVM wart, but I guess there at least used to be a reason to have them :/
13:46	gnuvince	I figure performance
13:47	gnuvince	Although it seems like the kind of thing the compiler should take care of.
13:48	Cark	well it really makes sense ti have a buffer made of real contiguous bytes
13:48	Cark	rather than byte objects or whatever
13:49	danlarkin	right, well it's an array of data structures rather than an array of pointers to classes with overhead etc
13:50	danlarkin	I agree it's a wart, but I /suppose/ I can see the rationale for having it
13:51	Cark	.net has the same thing m
13:51	Cark	more or less
13:51	Cark	so i guess that's pretty much the way to go
13:56	gnuvince	instance? seems like a pretty quick operation, am I right?
13:56	dnolen	what kind of machine does clojurebot run on?
14:00	Cark	clojurebot has been on strike these days
14:00	Cark	clojurebot: are you there ?
14:00	clojurebot	Huh?
14:02	cemerick	gnuvince: as quick as Class.isInstance :-)
14:03	gnuvince	cemerick: that's what I wanted to know, that seems to be pretty fast, right?
14:03	cemerick	for the job, it's all there is...
14:04	cemerick	the speed of instance? is never going to be your bottleneck, if that's your question
14:04	gnuvince	cemerick: think again :)
14:04	gnuvince	rank self accum count trace method 1 37.54% 37.54% 3532 300290 java.lang.Class.isInstance 2 20.12% 57.66% 1893 300285 java.lang.Class.isInstance
14:04	gnuvince	3 17.94% 75.60% 1688 300292 java.lang.Class.isInstance
14:04	gnuvince	4 2.44% 78.04% 230 300308 java.io.FileInputStream.readBytes
14:04	gnuvince	well, the output didn't come out too nicely :-/
14:05	cemerick	can you paste the code that produces that mix?
14:05	gnuvince	http://bitbucket.org/gnuvince/clj-starcraft/src
14:05	gnuvince	check starcraft/replay/parse.clj
14:07	cemerick	where's the source of the instance? calls?
14:07	Cark	did you set the wern-on-reflection variable ?
14:07	Cark	warn
14:08	gnuvince	Cark: yes, there's none.
14:08	gnuvince	cemerick: most likely the call to vector? in read-field
14:11	cemerick	what's the overall runtime of the code that you profiled? I'm thinking if the overall runtime was very short, then instance? calls would likely still be reflective, and they could easily be a significant amount of runtime compared to a small disk read.
14:12	Cark	and the file must be in the cache too, so even faster to read
14:14	gnuvince	cemerick: ~110 seconds.
14:14	gnuvince	cemerick: it processed over a thousand files in that time frame.
14:16	Cark	what's the troughput ? how many megabytes in this time frame ?
14:17	gnuvince	Not a lot
14:17	gnuvince	151 MB
14:18	gnuvince	Each file is about 150 KB
14:18	Cark	i remember seeing somewhere a way to read several buffers in one go
14:18	Cark	an array of buffers with different types
14:19	gnuvince	Cark: my hands are tied by the Java lib I use.
14:19	gnuvince	I don't do the IO
14:19	gnuvince	I take the file
14:19	gnuvince	pass it off to a Java method
14:19	gnuvince	grab the ByteBuffer it returned
14:19	gnuvince	and work with that.
14:24	replaca	I will attest to isInstance? being a bottleneck, it's also the slowest thing in the pretty printer (although I do do it a lot).
14:24	Cark	ah too bad ...because with a FileChannel you have this method : read(ByteBuffer[] dsts)
14:24	gnuvince	replaca: I do a lot of vector? calls too.
14:24	Cark	you could then prepare wrapped buffers on top of that for each record type
14:25	Cark	for each field type i mean
14:25	gnuvince	I was thinking of changing my API slightly, but it seems that a comparaison of length or using try/catch are the same speed.
14:25	Cark	does your library do memory mapped files ?
14:26	gnuvince	Cark: not that I know of.
14:26	gnuvince	as far as I can tell (not really a Java programmer), the guy just opens a FileInputStream, reads, and returns a ByteBuffer.
14:26	Cark	anyways that's not your problem ...you need to do less at run time
14:27	gnuvince	yeah
14:27	gnuvince	I define a field in a record like this:
14:27	replaca	gnuvince: obviously the pretty printer needs to think about types a lot, cause it's making dynamic decisions based on type. BUt it does more work than it needs to. I'll need to deal with that when I revisit dispatch.
14:28	gnuvince	[:name 1 Byte] or [:name2 [1 Byte] Integer]. The vector? calls is to read the [1 Byte] and use the value as the number of Integers to read.
14:30	gnuvince	,(let [xs (repeat 1000000 [[1] [2 3]])] (time (doseq [x xs] (if (= (count x) 1) 1 2))))
14:30	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 3834.042 msecs"
14:30	gnuvince	,(let [xs (repeat 1000000 [1 [2 3]])] (time (doseq [x xs] (if (vector? x) 2 1))))
14:30	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 2458.336 msecs"
14:30	Cark	I would prepare that parsing before hand
14:31	Cark	you know build a lambda
14:31	Cark	there you're "parsing" the field spec during the actual processing
14:32	gnuvince	So turn these into lambdas instead of structs? http://bitbucket.org/gnuvince/clj-starcraft/src/tip/src/starcraft/replay/actions.clj
14:33	Cark	that's nice and clean as it is
14:33	Cark	but you could process this "DSL" before hand into lambdas to make it quicker to parse
14:36	gnuvince	To make sure I'm following, something like (compile-record [:name 1 Byte] [:name2 [1 Byte] Integer]) and that would return a fn that takes a ByteBuffer as its input?
14:37	Cark	right
14:38	gnuvince	Should that be a macro or a function?
14:38	cipher	hey gnuvince what are you writing there--quick description
14:39	gnuvince	cipher: it's a library that reads a Starcraft replay file and returns information about the game (players, races, map, etc.) as well as all the actions done by the players. Players use those kinds of programs to analyse their games.
14:40	cipher	neat.
14:49	gnuvince	Cark: do you think compile-field should be a function or a macro? I'd prefer a function, but I'm not sure if I can do it...
14:50	cipher	gnuvince: did you see my PM?
14:50	gnuvince	Oh, yes.
14:50	gnuvince	Thanks
14:51	cipher	Ok.
14:52	gnuvince	Did you guys to bnetd?
14:52	cipher	we have some involvement
14:52	cipher	had*
14:53	gnuvince	OK
14:53	gnuvince	Shame Vivendi pulled the plug on that project :(
14:53	technomancy	if I can't delete a file, should I raise an instance of Exception, or is there a more specific class I should use?
14:53	gnuvince	technomancy: IOException?
14:54	technomancy	gnuvince: thanks; that sounds better
14:55	technomancy	what do you think: does a delete-file-recursively function belong in contrib?
14:56	technomancy	http://p.hagelb.org/delete-file-recursively.html
15:03	gnuvince	Java doesn't already have a method for that?
15:03	technomancy	gnuvince: yeah, I was surprised, but I couldn't find one.
15:03	technomancy	maybe they just hid it really well?
15:05	gnuvince	Python's shutil.rmtree ftw!
15:05	technomancy	FileUtils.rm_rcf
15:05	technomancy	*rm_rf
15:05	Chouser	that's the kind of thing apache commons provides
15:05	leafw	technomancy, gnuvince: no, java does not have a recursive file deletion command. I guess it meant too much potential for damage.
15:06	technomancy	Chouser: yeah, but needing a 3rd-party dependency for something that basic is unfortunate.
15:06	leafw	at least it has File.mkdirs()
15:06	Chouser	technomancy: yeah
15:06	technomancy	this functionality is pretty important for unit testing
15:06	technomancy	since you need to clean up after yourself
15:13	technomancy	posted it to the mailing list
15:13	technomancy	can create an issue/patch
15:13	cemerick	contrib is a 3rd party dependency (or dependencies). Much more pleasant API than 99% of the stuff out there, but it's a dependency nonetheless.
15:15	technomancy	every project I've worked with uses contrib already
15:15	technomancy	so it's not an additional dependency for most
15:15	technomancy	and it's not exactly 3rd-party
15:16	Chousuke	Chouser: what's the plan with your clojure-compiler? I see you haven't worked on it in a while
15:17	cemerick	my real point is that I think it'd be bad if stuff as generic (and as redundant w.r.t. existing libraries) as common IO operations starts leaking into contrib
15:20	Chouser	Chousuke: I've got a new job and a lot less time to work on Clojure stuff
15:20	Chouser	so the plans the same, the pace is just way down
15:26	Chousuke	the code you have right now looks quite scary.
15:26	Chouser	hm. yeah, it's not gotten to the "clean up" phase yet. ;-)
15:43	jayfields	how can I return the first item from a collection that matches a predicate?
15:43	jayfields	other than (first (filter pred coll))
15:43	kotarak	(seq-utils/find-first pred coll)
15:43	jayfields	cool. thanks.
15:44	jayfields	I take it that's in contrib?
15:44	kotarak	Yup.
15:45	cemerick	Chouser: hey, congrats! Is it hush-hush, or do we get to leer at your new employer's wares?
15:45	Chouser	http://sentryds.com/
15:59	drewr	Chouser: Congrats!
16:00	drewr	Are you relocating to FL or working from IL/IN/wherever you are now?
16:01	Chouser	telecommuting full time now. We'll see how that goes. :-)
16:02	drewr	It's definitely bittersweet.
16:03	drewr	I love it today because it's 65 and I'm on my porch.
16:03	Chouser	ah, nice
16:09	triddell	functions are supposed to return early, right? I have a function that checks user security against authorized access roles. How should I return true after the first authorized match from a for list comphrehension?
16:10	triddell	are not supposed to return early that is
16:10	hiredman	(first (for ...))
16:11	arohner	triddell: for returns a lazy list that is realized as necessary
16:12	arohner	first "blocks" until the first element is returned from the lazy list
16:12	technomancy	cemerick: I don't follow.
16:12	technomancy	what's wrong with that?
16:13	hiredman	~literal [3] clojure
16:13	clojurebot	a very attractive hammer with a nice heft to it
16:13	hiredman	^- now using fnparse
16:14	cemerick	technomancy: there's a lot of java libraries that do a lot of things. Reimplementing capabilities (especially inherently-stateful stuff like IO) in clojure is counterproductive overall, IMO. Not having to do that sort of thing is why having fantastic java interop is a Good Thing.
16:14	AWizzArd	~ max people
16:14	clojurebot	max people is 164
16:15	triddell	arohner & hiredman: thanks
16:15	cemerick	been that way for a long time now
16:15	cemerick	maybe clojurebot should track the date that the last max was reached
16:16	technomancy	cemerick: everyone's just going to re-implement it on their own anyway
16:16	AWizzArd	Well, it first was 164. Then Clojurebot forgot that number. After a few days it maxed out freshly on 162. But then I resetted it to 164 again. This is now a while ago.
16:16	technomancy	contrib is useful because it provides common I/O operations
16:17	AWizzArd	Until that max number of users there was a funny correlation between the numbers of the GG and the number of users in here. That correlation was: for each 10 new users in the GG we got one more user here.
16:17	cemerick	technomancy: really? At what point is pulling in well-tested libraries worthwhile, then?
16:17	technomancy	cemerick: rm -rf ain't exactly rocket science
16:17	AWizzArd	For some reason then the number of users here settled at +/- 125, while the GG got more users.
16:17	technomancy	you'd pull in 3rd-party libs for tricky things like joda for date parsing
16:18	cemerick	I'm sure someone will reimplement date parsing in clojure, too. I'm just wondering where the line gets drawn.
16:19	technomancy	cemerick: I did. but I realized it's a bad idea because it's impossible to get right.
16:19	technomancy	so it didn't go in contrib.
16:19	technomancy	but this is very, very different.
16:22	cemerick	To each his own, I guess. Reinventing any otherwise well-tested wheel without getting a significant return on that work just seems like a waste to me. shrug
16:23	technomancy	everybody who writes tests for code that writes to disk needs to delete whole directories. having to pull in an apache dependency to do this is... sad.
16:23	cemerick	not really -- we use ant to clean such temp spaces up.
16:24	technomancy	it's fewer lines of code to just implement the function than actual lines of XML necessary to express the dependency on apache commons io.
16:24	technomancy	what about people who want to run tests from the REPL or from slime?
16:26	cemerick	that largely doesn't make sense to me either :-)
16:27	technomancy	if you have to launch a new instance every time you want to run the tests, it totally kills your rhythm since you've got to wait a few seconds for the JVM to boot.
16:28	technomancy	which is OK for integration tests, but totally unacceptable for unit tests where you need instant feedback
16:29	technomancy	see http://p.hagelb.org/06-clojure-test-mode.ogv
16:30	cemerick	like I said, to each his own. IMO, the REPL is phenomenal for interactive development, but any results from tests run in it aren't to be trusted -- too much opportunity for environment pollution that can skew them one way or another.
16:31	technomancy	yeah, it can't be your only method of testing; that's for sure.
16:31	technomancy	but to avoid testing with it is to give up a valuable tool.
16:33	cemerick	I don't avoid it...but then, I can't think of a single REPL-friendly test we have that uses any temp files.
16:37	technomancy	maybe that's because you don't have an rm -rf that works from the repl. =)
16:37	cemerick	heh
16:38	cemerick	nah, we just don't generate files shrug
16:38	cemerick	if we did, I'd probably have to know my way around a shell way better than I do
16:41	cemerick	everything we do is in-memory. GC cleans up after us :-)
16:42	technomancy	that's awesome if you can get away with it. =)
16:42	cemerick	I know :-D
16:58	emacsen	Can someone explain why I get an error that v doesn't resolve in the context: http://paste.lisp.org/display/79032
16:58	emacsen	(that's not the final code, but it's the simplest version I have right now)
16:59	cemerick	emacsen: each arity must be wrapped in parens....
16:59	emacsen	cemerick, ah :)
17:00	cemerick	emacsen: http://paste.lisp.org/display/79032
17:00	kotarak	emacsen: and the (if (empty? ..) true) ( ... looks ominous. The if is basically useless.
17:00	emacsen	kotarak, the first one? you're probably right
17:01	emacsen	otherwise, well you need it to return true sometime right?
17:01	emacsen	cemerick, thx
17:01	kotarak	And (cond ... :else false) can also be left out. cond will return nil of no clause matched, so it will count as false.
17:02	emacsen	This also isn't the final code. It's going to do more than this, and will be lazy, but this is my first shot
17:02	emacsen	kotarak, for this version, true. Later versions, no, but you're right in what you see
17:02	emacsen	(because nil won't print as false in print I believe
17:05	hiredman	~ticker JAVA
17:05	clojurebot	JAVA; -0.06
17:12	durka42	~ticker ORCL
17:12	clojurebot	ORCL; -0.18
17:13	danlarkin	~ticker CHINA
17:13	clojurebot	CHINA; +0.07
17:13	danlarkin	tada!
17:14	durka42	china?
17:14	p_l	?
17:15	kotarak	~ticker CON.F
17:15	clojurebot	java.io.IOException: Server returned HTTP response code: 400 for URL: http://www.google.com/finance/info?q=CON.F
17:15	durka42	CDC Corporation
17:15	durka42	(Public, NASDAQ:CHINA)
19:19	cads	hey, how do I use a namespace like clojure.set ? Neither (use clojure.set) or (use clojure/set) seem to work.
19:22	technomancy	(use 'clojure.set)
19:22	Raynes	use 'clojure.set
19:22	Raynes	technomancy: You win this time. :(
19:22	technomancy	or even better put (:use [clojure.set]) in your ns directive
19:26	lisppaste8	Rayne pasted "imports and uses in namespace example for cads" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79041
19:28	cads	why do we quote it?
19:28	cads	wow, thanks for the example rayne
19:29	Raynes	cads: No problem.
19:29	technomancy	cads: because clojure.set is not bound to a value
19:29	Raynes	Quoting it keeps Clojure from trying to evaluate it.
19:29	technomancy	try just entering clojure.set into a repl; it doesn't mean anything
19:29	Raynes	^ what he said.
19:29	cads	ah
19:30	technomancy	it's a symbol that is used to look up a namespace
19:30	technomancy	which is different from a var that's used to look up a value
19:30	cads	I thought it would just pass the symbol in that case, but I remember the eval rules now
19:30	technomancy	cads: if use were a macro, it could do that
19:31	technomancy	but use is a function
19:31	technomancy	ns is a macro, which is why the evaluation rules are different there
19:37	cgrand	technomancy: hi! just noticed (while grepping irc logs) that you talked to cgrand-rec 2 days ago. cgrand-rec isn't me, it's a disconnected irssi logging the channel
19:37	technomancy	cgrand: ah; good to know. =)
19:38	technomancy	I forgot what I said though.
19:38	cgrand	that you were trying the new enlive
19:39	technomancy	oh, I was "use"ing enlive and was wondering if it might be better not to export any vars that conflicted with clojure core.
19:39	unlink	What's the idiom for function definitions visible only inside another function?
19:39	technomancy	I've since decided to stick with "use :only" unless I have a reason not to
19:39	technomancy	unlink: define them in let bindings
19:40	lisppaste8	technomancy pasted "let-binding a function for internal use; see target-file" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79044
19:40	technomancy	unlink: ^^
19:41	unlink	boom
19:41	stuhood	you overwhelmed lisp.org with your awesome code, and it is throwing 500's...
19:41	technomancy	amazing
19:42	technomancy	if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself: http://p.hagelb.org/extract-jar.html
19:42	dreish	Or http://gist.github.com/
19:42	technomancy	witness the power of Static Files
19:42	technomancy	does gist do clojure highlighting?
19:42	dreish	Yes.
19:42	stuhood	yea
19:42	technomancy	cool
19:43	technomancy	but I prefer static files. =)
19:43	dreish	They do Genshi highlighting.
19:43	stuhood	speaking of which, has anyone tried to get Clojure highlighting for Trac?
19:44	dreish	Maybe Genshi's not so obscure. (I'd never heard of it.) But anyway they cover something like 80 languages.
19:44	cgrand	technomancy: it bothers me to clash with clojure.core (eg CSS :not is 'but), I should rename 'complement back to 'complement-state (or 'negate or something else) and find another name for 'empty
19:45	technomancy	cgrand: clashing in private defns is not as big of a deal
19:45	unlink	So def always (re)binds in the global namespace, regardless of the scope?
19:46	technomancy	yeah. you shouldn't use it at outside toplevel scope unless you have a really good reason to do it though.
19:46	unlink	I guess I'm just used to scheme's scoping
19:46	unlink	which is different
19:47	technomancy	in fact, you shouldn't do it after your application has loaded at all
19:47	cgrand	technomancy: I want to keep them (complement and empty) public
19:47	technomancy	or at least be aware that you're stepping outside the Golden Path
19:47	unlink	right
19:48	unlink	I think (def a [x] (def b [x] (+ x 1)) (b x)) is nicer syntax than (def a [x] (let [b (fn [x] (+ x 1))] (b x))) though
19:48	unlink	s/\<def\>/&n
19:49	chessguy	so i'm thinking about an interesting little project, but i'd really need a freaking good REPL to play with it. anybody got any good suggestions? is SLIME as good as it gets?
19:49	dreish	letfn would be handy.
19:49	technomancy	chessguy: slime is rockin'
19:49	unlink	see: factorial with recur
19:49	technomancy	be sure you use M-x clojure-install to set it up though.
19:50	chessguy	hmm. i don't remember if that's how i installed it or not
19:50	chessguy	how would i tell?
19:50	technomancy	chessguy: if you used it, you should have a call to clojure-slime-config somewhere in your personal .emacs setup.
19:51	chessguy	doesn't look like it
19:51	chessguy	just (slime-setup)
19:51	technomancy	if you've already got it working you should be ok
19:51	chessguy	and slime-setup '(slime-repl)
19:51	technomancy	I was just thinking if you were going to install from scratch
19:51	unlink	Am I writing this idiomatically? http://gist.github.com/100173
19:52	dreish	unlink: Maybe (letfn [inner [n m] ...] (inner n 1)) ?
19:52	unlink	Oh, there exists a letfn?
19:52	dreish	Since January, yes.
19:52	chessguy	i don't get it, when i M-x slime, it says something about connecting to a server? what is it connecting to
19:52	unlink	oh
19:52	unlink	hot
19:53	technomancy	chessguy: a clojure instance is started that "serves" the Emacs instance over slime
19:53	technomancy	there's a socket connection between the two
19:53	chessguy	oh, a JVM environment?
19:54	Raynes	technomancy: Stop being smarter than me. It's not nice. :\|
19:54	technomancy	heh
19:54	technomancy	chessguy: yeah, it's launched as a subprocess.
19:54	chessguy	cool
19:54	dreish	unlink: Or just ((fn inner [n m] ...) n 1), but the double open parens can cause crossed eyes.
19:56	chessguy	does slime store the result of the last evaluation anywhere that you can get at it?
19:56	chessguy	e.g., for haskell, in ghci, if i do > 2 + 3, followed by > it == 5, i'd get true
19:56	technomancy	chessguy: probably, but I couldn't tell you off the top of my head. the slime manual is really good though.
19:56	chessguy	oh ok, i'll take a look
19:57	chessguy	thanks
20:15	dysinger	why does this work (straight java)
20:15	dysinger	sonian.archive.aws=> (String/format "%s ran %d miles today" (to-array ["Stu" 8]))
20:16	dysinger	"Stu ran 8 miles today"
20:16	dysinger	sonian.archive.aws=>
20:16	dysinger	and this one doesn't
20:16	dysinger	sonian.archive.aws=> (format "%s ran %d miles today" ["Stu" 8])
20:16	dysinger	java.util.MissingFormatArgumentException: Format specifier 'd' (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
20:16	dysinger	sonian.archive.aws=>
20:16	dreish	Remove the []
20:16	dysinger	I know that works
20:17	dysinger	I am saying the internal code for (format converts to a java array and passes it to java like the 1st call
20:17	dreish	The & turns the remaining args into a sequence.
20:18	dysinger	~(format "%s ran %d miles today" (seq ["Stu" 8]))
20:18	clojurebot	format is http://github.com/tomfaulhaber/cl-format/tree/master
20:18	dysinger	oops
20:18	hiredman	dysinger: it works that way because [] does not make an array
20:18	dysinger	,(format "%s ran %d miles today" (seq ["Stu" 8]))
20:18	clojurebot	java.util.MissingFormatArgumentException: Format specifier 'd'
20:19	dreish	dysinger: Why would you expect that to work?
20:19	hiredman	[] makes a persistent vector, which java's format doesn't know anything about
20:19	dreish	args now contains (("Stu" 8)) -- a seq with only one thing in it.
20:19	dysinger	right
20:19	dreish	That thing happens to be another seq, but it needs _two_ things.
20:19	dreish	Not _one_ seq.
20:20	dysinger	so the only way to format with a seq / vector / set is to use apply
20:20	dreish	Sure, or you could do String/format yourself I guess.
20:21	dysinger	y
20:21	dreish	If you do it a lot, maybe write a formatseq?
20:21	dysinger	true
20:21	dreish	I'd probably apply. It seems cleaner somehow.
20:21	dysinger	y it works fine
20:21	dysinger	just curious
20:22	dysinger	the & args turning into a seq explains the magic
20:22	dreish	k
20:23	dysinger	sorry for the bone-headed questions - I've been seriously programming clojure for 3 weeks.
20:23	dysinger	:)
20:23	dreish	np
20:24	dreish	For some reason I thought you'd been around for months, actually.
20:24	dysinger	I learn quick - but sometimes ask dumb questions
20:24	dysinger	and I did Java for 10 years and some lisp already :)
20:25	dysinger	am totally loving it though
20:25	dysinger	I rewrote some java today and shrank it 10:1
20:25	dreish	It is nice.
20:27	Raynes	dysinger: Good evening.
20:27	dreish	Whenever I have to make a change to the existing Java part of my pet project, it's painful to have to deal with that language.
20:27	dysinger	heya Raynes
20:38	chessguy	hmm, i don't get how to use slime presentations to copy the previous results to the prompt
20:42	gnuvince_	Sometimes I hate dynamic typing...
20:50	chessguy	i'm reading http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Presentations.html and it says "Using standard Emacs commands, the presentation can be copied to a new input in the REPL", but it doesn't say WHAT standard Emacs commands
20:53	technomancy	chessguy_: M-p
20:53	slashus2	try them all
20:54	chessguy	M-p takes me to the last one that matches what i've typed so far
20:55	technomancy	C-h m will show you what bindings are active for the current mode
20:59	chessguy	none of those seem to do what i want
21:03	chessguy	sigh
21:16	unlink	How do I pattern match based on whether the argument to a function was a vector or a scalar?
21:16	durka42	you could do something with multimethods
21:17	durka42	or you could just put an if statement at the top of the function
21:17	dreish	Destructuring isn't the same as pattern matching, in that it can't really do what you're asking for.
21:18	unlink	oh
21:18	hiredman	well
21:18	hiredman	it can
21:18	unlink	That was basically the #1 use case of pattern matching for me
21:19	hiredman	(defmulti f vector?)
21:19	hiredman	(defmethod f true [arg] do vector stuff)
21:19	hiredman	(defmethod f false [arg] do scalar stuff)
21:19	dreish	hiredman: That's a multimethod, as durka42 suggested.
21:20	unlink	e.g. fun g(a, b, c) = case a of [] => (round c) = 1 \| 1::xs => not (null xs) \| _ => b
21:22	dreish	I'm surprised no one has written a defpattern macro for contrib yet.
21:23	unlink	Obviously (fn ([[a b & c]] ...) ([_] ...)) doesn't work.
21:28	Jedi_Stannis	what are you trying to do?
21:31	technomancy	chessguy: it might be a clojure repl feature rather than a slime feature
21:50	chessguy	Jedi_Stannis, a simple example: if i've done user> (+ 2 3)
21:50	chessguy	and gotten back 5
21:51	chessguy	i want to be able to do user> (+ 5
21:51	chessguy	and then hit some combo
21:51	chessguy	to put the 5 from the previous evaluation into what i'm currently typing
21:51	Jedi_Stannis	*1
21:51	Jedi_Stannis	?
21:52	Jedi_Stannis	,(doc *1)
21:52	clojurebot	"; bound in a repl thread to the most recent value printed"
21:52	chessguy	oh cool!
21:52	Jedi_Stannis	,(doc *2)
21:52	clojurebot	"; bound in a repl thread to the second most recent value printed"
21:53	Jedi_Stannis	,(doc *3)
21:53	clojurebot	"; bound in a repl thread to the third most recent value printed"
21:53	chessguy	,(doc *42)
21:53	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: *42 in this context
21:53	Jedi_Stannis	lol
21:53	Jedi_Stannis	only 1 - 3
21:53	chessguy	just checking :)
21:53	chessguy	,(doc *4)
21:53	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: *4 in this context
21:53	chessguy	boo
21:53	chessguy	ok, better than nothing
21:53	chessguy	thanks!
21:54	Jedi_Stannis	no problem
22:00	cipher	can someone explain how to use the -> form
22:01	unlink	I guess one simple example of what I'm trying to do would be a basic implementation of map, where it accepts two parameters, a function and a list. I would like to pattern match on whether the list is empty or not; in the former case, map returns (); in the latter case, it retuns (cons (f x) (map f xs))
22:01	Jedi_Stannis	,(macroexpand '(-> 1 (+ 2) (* 3))
22:01	clojurebot	EOF while reading
22:01	Jedi_Stannis	,(macroexpand '(-> 1 (+ 2) (* 3)))
22:01	clojurebot	(* (clojure.core/-> 1 (+ 2)) 3)
22:02	Jedi_Stannis	bleh, doesn't expand all the way:( * (+ 1 2) 3)
22:03	Jedi_Stannis	unlink: you can't really pattern match in clojure like you can in haskell or other functional languages.... need to write a conditional or write some sort of pattern matching macro
22:03	unlink	oh.
22:04	unlink	Good excuse to learn reader macros, I suppose.
22:04	Jedi_Stannis	cipher: so if you want an imperative style, you can start with your data structure and list the functions you want applied to it
22:04	Jedi_Stannis	unlink: umm, clojure also doesn't have reader macros
22:05	Jedi_Stannis	,(-> {} (assoc :a 1) (assoc :b 2) (assoc :c 3))
22:05	clojurebot	{:c 3, :b 2, :a 1}
22:05	Cark	hey how is it imperative to start with data structures ?
22:05	unlink	I guess regular macros might be powerful enough?
22:05	Jedi_Stannis	yeah, it just will change the way you write it
22:09	cipher	so I can almost think of it like doto?
22:09	unlink	Thanks, Jedi_Stannis.
22:12	Jedi_Stannis	cipher: similar to doto, except instead of it applying methods to an object for side effects, it passes the result from one function call to the next, building up the result
22:13	cipher	got it. alright thanks.
22:13	Jedi_Stannis	cark: its not really imperative, just lets you write things in the order they happen, instead of reverse order by having to nest all the calls
22:15	Jedi_Stannis	your welcome
22:17	emacsen	I've just learned the comparison operators < and > don't work on strings
22:17	emacsen	Is there a deep reason for this?
22:17	Cark	i'll take the bait : what do you expect from the < operator on strings ?
22:17	Chouser	I think performance of numeric operations are generally cited.
22:18	Cark	byte by byte comparison ? character wise comparison ? what collating order then ?
22:18	emacsen	Chouser, right but shouldn't < be defmulti-ed
22:18	durka42	emacsen: exactly. that would be slow(er)
22:18	emacsen	okay, so is there a generic function for this?
22:18	gnuvince_	Cark: by the way, thanks for the suggestion of "compiling" my records this afternoon. I'm doing some rough tests here, but performance went from 115 seconds on my home PC for 1000+ files to ~90
22:19	gnuvince_	lambda++
22:19	Cark	that's not as good as i imagined gnuvince ='(
22:19	gnuvince_	Cark: well it is the first time I've done something like this, so I may have not been as efficient as I could.
22:19	emacsen	in other languages you can compare numbers, or dates, or strings and they use some inferior operator overloading. Is there a function I can use generically?
22:19	gnuvince_	Cark: I'll push the code in a little while if you want to see the code.
22:20	Cark	gnuvince : i'd love to
22:20	Cark	emacsen : to me it does not make sense to use the same operator for strings and for numbers
22:21	Cark	is some kenji symbol smaller or bigger than the letter B ?
22:21	unlink	Is there a shorthand for (let [x (cond ...)] (if (nil? x) (...) x))
22:21	unlink	Or maybe something more robust which lets me return nil from cond and still not evaluate the second (...)
22:22	emacsen	Cark, Maybe. But then I guess I have to figure out the right function
22:22	emacsen	and I won't know that ahead of time
22:22	Cark	emacsen : you have the full java stack at your fingertips
22:22	Cark	and pretty good docs too =)
22:22	emacsen	Cark, that's like saying "You have as much mud as you want to build the house of your dreams!"
22:23	durka42	:)
22:23	Cark	maybe but that's efficient mud you dobn't need to recreate !
22:23	durka42	unlink: if-let maybe?
22:24	unlink	I guess like cond-else in scheme
22:25	Cark	,you want some kind of when-not-let ?
22:25	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: you in this context
22:28	unlink	After some googling it appears that (cond) excepts :else in place of a condition.
22:29	gnuvince_	Cark: http://bitbucket.org/gnuvince/clj-starcraft/src/tip/src/starcraft/replay/parse.clj#cl-41
22:29	emacsen	okay, one last very dumb question. Why, if we have namespaces, can't I reuse names from the core?
22:29	Cark	gnuvince : checking it now
22:29	emacsen	eg I can't use "val" in my functions as an argument because it's already used in the core
22:30	Chouser	emacsen: you can, but you have to explicitly exclude those core names from being referred into your new namespace
22:30	Cark	emacsen : you can but you have to specifically import core
22:30	hiredman	,((fn [val] val) 1)
22:30	clojurebot	1
22:30	emacsen	Wow both those options suck ;)
22:31	Cark	that's the same option =P
22:31	emacsen	Then it sucks twice as hard ;)
22:31	unlink	How is recur not 100% equivalent to using the name of the function in a tail position recursive call?
22:31	Cark	that's CLish
22:32	unlink	emacsen: I agree, the semantics are very surprising.
22:32	hiredman	unlink: cond does not take :else, :else is just convient because it evals to not nil (true) all the time so if it is reached it's clause will run
22:32	unlink	hiredman: oh, of course.
22:32	Cark	gnuvince : you still have the lookup in read-field
22:32	hiredman	,(cond (= 1 0) :foo 1 :bar)
22:32	clojurebot	:bar
22:32	emacsen	unlink, well it's just I have been writing code lately and finding out quickly that I need to change a lot variable names because they're already in the core
22:33	emacsen	"val" has always been my default single value argument name
22:33	unlink	emacsen: I ran into the gotcha a few times today as well.
22:33	emacsen	and "seq" seemed like a good name for an argument which was a sequence passed in :)
22:33	unlink	I think the idiom is "coll" for that.
22:33	emacsen	fair nuff
22:33	gnuvince_	Cark: the lookup to select the getting function?
22:33	Cark	right
22:34	unlink	Ok, I guess except for the use of recur with loop.
22:34	Cark	gnuvince : you could have a make-read-field function, then in compile record you prepare that function, and just use it in the returned lambda
22:35	Cark	i usually name these lamba compiling functions like this : make-frobnicator-fn
22:35	Cark	as this is not really compiling
22:35	gnuvince_	ok
22:36	Cark	so that's one less lookup for you right there ...though i beleive this should not make a huge difference
22:36	gnuvince_	As for a make-read-field function, won't I need to lookup the type anyway to select the right one?
22:37	Cark	well the type is already given in the field-specs right ?
22:37	gnuvince_	Yes
22:37	Cark	mhh let me make a paste with some untested code
22:37	Cark	lisppaste8: url?
22:37	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
22:40	lisppaste8	cark pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79053
22:40	Cark	that's only to give the idea
22:40	Cark	and is actually completely wrong =/
22:41	Cark	you want to prepare a list of functions
22:41	gnuvince_	I'll give it a whirl
22:41	Cark	very wrong i put it in the returned lambda =P
22:41	cipher	,(make-array (. Byte TYPE) [1 2 3])
22:41	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.LazilyPersistentVector cannot be cast to java.lang.Character
22:41	Cark	let me anotate again
22:42	cipher	What's the right way to do that?
22:43	Chouser	,(into-array Byte/TYPE (map byte [1 2 3]))
22:43	clojurebot	#<byte[] [B@1eab16b>
22:44	lisppaste8	cark annotated #79053 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79053#1
22:44	Cark	that's more like it
22:45	lisppaste8	cark annotated #79053 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79053#2
22:46	Cark	gnih
22:46	gnuvince_	All right
22:46	gnuvince_	I'll test it out tomorrow at work when I need to pretend like I'm working
22:47	Cark	disregard the last one, i need to edit in emacs instead of firefox =P
22:47	unlink	Am I missing some clojure programming construct which allows me to avoid writing a cond like this? http://gist.github.com/100253
22:47	gnuvince_	hehe ;)
22:48	gnuvince_	,(map even? [1 2 3 4 5 6])
22:48	clojurebot	(false true false true false true)
22:48	gnuvince_	,(mapgilter even? [1 2 3 4 5 6])
22:48	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: mapgilter in this context
22:48	gnuvince_	,(filter even? [1 2 3 4 5 6])
22:48	clojurebot	(2 4 6)
22:49	unlink	Ok, yes, I know it is a bit contrived.
22:49	gnuvince_	unlink: the seq functions are prefered.
22:50	unlink	But the point of the function is not to return the even elements in the list, but rather the elements in even positions.
22:50	lisppaste8	cark annotated #79053 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79053#3
22:50	Cark	gnuvince : notice on how the vector? call is now out of the loop
22:51	Cark	err though the first bracnh of the size if is wrong, you get the idea
22:52	gnuvince_	Yeah
22:52	gnuvince_	I've bookmarked the page
22:52	Cark	pretty hard to give a solution without rewriting a whole bunch of it
22:52	gnuvince_	One thing I've had to do to get more performance is to close over data instead of using vars.
22:52	unlink	In Haskell, you would do: evens [] = []; evens x = []; evens (x:y:xs) = y:evens xs
22:52	Cark	well, the var there is only called once
22:53	Cark	not inside the loop
22:53	gnuvince_	Won't it be called every time I call make-read-field-fn?
22:54	Cark	yes, but you could do this a single time at compile time
22:54	Cark	or once a file
22:54	gnuvince_	unlink: you want only the even indexed elements?
22:54	Cark	once for every field in every record type
22:54	unlink	gnuvince: Yes.
22:54	unlink	gnuvince: starting at 1
22:55	gnuvince_	,(take-nth 2 [1 2 3 4 5 6])
22:55	clojurebot	(1 3 5)
22:55	gnuvince_	This starts at zero however.
22:55	gnuvince_	,(take-nth 2 (cons nil [1 2 3 4 5 6]))
22:55	clojurebot	(nil 2 4 6)
22:55	gnuvince_	meh
22:56	unlink	I'm actually looking for a way to mimic the Haskell construction.
22:56	gnuvince_	Cark: is there any good literature on using lambdas like that to optimize code and "compile" code?
22:56	gnuvince_	unlink: Clojure doesn't have pattern matching, so you're pretty much out of luck there.
22:57	gnuvince_	Go with the length
22:57	unlink	So (cond (nil? ...)) is the right construction?
22:57	Cark	i don't know, i learned this reading the source code of cl-pcre (the common lisp regex compiler made by edi weitz which is faster than perl)
22:57	unlink	@gnuvince_
22:58	gnuvince_	Cark: ok.
22:59	Cark	gnuvince : too bad you don't have some test files in there, i would give it a go =)
22:59	lisppaste8	gnuvince pasted "evens" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79054
22:59	gnuvince_	Cark: I have a script to get a bunch of them
23:00	lisppaste8	gnuvince pasted "Download Starcraft replay files" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79055
23:00	unlink	gnuvince_: That doesn't lazily iterate the list, though.
23:01	unlink	s/list/collection
23:01	gnuvince_	Cark: this is screen scrapping, so hopefully they didn't change their entire site.
23:01	gnuvince_	unlink: it's not too hard to change that
23:01	Cark	is this python ?
23:02	unlink	gnuvince_: you mean and still not check whether car and cadr are nil?
23:04	gnuvince_	Cark: yes.
23:04	Cark	i think i'll just download a couple files manually =P
23:06	gnuvince_	Cark: wait
23:06	gnuvince_	I'll put up an archive on a webserver
23:07	lisppaste8	gnuvince annotated #79054 "lazy evens" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79054#1
23:07	unlink	ok, thanks, I have to run
23:10	gnuvince_	Cark http://www.studio-cdd.com/replays.tar.gz
23:10	gnuvince_	about 1050 files
23:10	Cark	quite a big file =)
23:11	gnuvince_	yeah
23:21	replaca	good evening, clojurians
23:21	Cark	hello replaca
23:51	Cark	are you still there gnuvince ?
23:54	replaca	this is the time of night when tumbleweeds begin to roll through #clojure
23:55	Cark	hehe