#clojure – 2009-03-30

2009-03-30

00:24	cooldude127	damn irc is boring at night
00:30	cmvkk	everyone's coding
01:14	Raynes	http://xkcd.com/289/
01:14	slashus2	What is the best way to represent a binary tree when coding in clojure?
02:33	slashus2	Most of the examples of zippers that I find are in haskell :-(.
03:17	l_a_m	i ve got a problem to setup Slime with clojure : http://paste.lisp.org/display/77765
03:17	l_a_m	SLIME works fine with my SBLC configuration but i can t setup clojure
03:17	l_a_m	any help ?
03:29	tsdh	Hi.
03:29	tsdh	Is it possible to use clojure and swank to override a static method in java.lang.StrictMath?
03:39	antifuchs	l_a_m: the error says it all: you need to set swank-clojure-binary (to a script that will start clojure) or swank-clojure-jar-path (to the path where the clojure.jar file is located)
03:39	clojurebot	it is too
03:45	antifuchs	l_a_m: are you referring to bill clementson's notes? these were pretty helpful for getting me up to speed (:
03:46	MikeSeth	l_a_m: clojurebox has scripts to configure slime
03:46	MikeSeth	dunno if that helps
04:04	l_a_m	antifuchs: yeah
04:04	l_a_m	antifuchs: but in my config i set the swank-clojure-jar-path
04:04	l_a_m	antifuchs: (setq swank-clojure-jar-path "/usr/local/src/clojure-language/clojure/clojure.jar") ?
04:04	antifuchs	oh, I think that's the same problem I ran into
04:04	l_a_m	so i don t really understand ...
04:04	antifuchs	you might have to set this before you require 'swank-clojure-autoload
04:04	l_a_m	ok
04:04	l_a_m	i try this one
04:04	antifuchs	I suppose you're loading slime before this block?
04:04	l_a_m	antifuchs: do you replace SBCL by Clojure ? :)
04:04	antifuchs	definitely not (:
04:04	antifuchs	both have their place in my setup (:
04:04	l_a_m	:)
04:04	l_a_m	my company wants only use Java ...
04:04	l_a_m	so Clojure could be a nice language :)
04:04	antifuchs	it is!
04:04	Raynes	It's the best thing evar.
04:04	antifuchs	let's not get carried away here. bacon is still pretty excellent.
04:05	Raynes	Oh yeah, I forgot about bacon.
04:14	MikeSeth	is this a reddit convention now? all sins written off for the sake of bacon?
04:29	antifuchs	it is happening all over the internet. I doubt this is reddit's doing.
04:31	antifuchs	anyway, my point should have been: don't believe universal best-ness claims for a second. everything has trade-offs.
04:32	clojurebot	for is not a loop
04:51	MikeSeth	is clojurebot written in clojure?
04:51	MikeSeth	clojurebot: status
04:51	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
04:56	Holcxjo	MikeSeth: http://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot/tree/master
04:56	Holcxjo	MikeSeth: The higher levels are -- the IRC comms are done by some Java lib I believe
05:08	MikeSeth	nice
05:11	AWizzArd	clojurebot: max people
05:11	clojurebot	max people is 164
05:18	rsynnott	MikeSeth: that'd be inverse judaism?
05:18	l_a_m	antifuchs: thanks
05:18	l_a_m	now i ve got this error : http://paste.lisp.org/display/77772
05:18	l_a_m	clojure repl seems working but not slime
05:20	rsynnott	l_a_m: recent versions of both clojure-swank and slime?
05:20	msingh	so is there a book to read to learn clojure?
05:22	l_a_m	rsynnott: i thought i updated them on friday ... i check
05:24	l_a_m	rsynnott: yes with git version of these 2 components
05:58	l_a_m	any idea for this error ?
06:16	hoeck	l_a_m: looks like swank tries to execute some common lisp code in clojure (swank::read-motd)
06:16	l_a_m	hoeck: strange
06:16	hoeck	maybe this comes from a slime extension package/module?
06:17	l_a_m	hoeck: i check ...
06:23	hoeck	l_a_m: they are activated with the slime-setup command
06:23	l_a_m	ok thanks it works fine now
06:36	MikeSeth	rsynnott: inverse judaism?
06:37	MikeSeth	ah you mean bacon
06:37	MikeSeth	lol
06:37	MikeSeth	not really though, jewish sins get written off once a year unconditionally :P
06:37	MikeSeth	is there a clojure port for smartphones?
06:40	hoeck	MikeSeth: there is remvee trying to run clojure on android: http://wiki.github.com/remvee/clojure
07:09	antifuchs	hm, is there an analogue to common lisp's CASE form in clojure?
07:09	antifuchs	hm, clojure.contrib.fcase, I suppose
07:13	hoeck	antifuchs: or condp
07:14	hoeck	,(condp = :b :a 'a :b 'b)
07:14	clojurebot	b
07:15	antifuchs	excellent
07:15	antifuchs	even gives me an IllegalArgumentException for unknown clauses. so it's like ecase, which I was actually looking for :
07:15	antifuchs	thanks
07:20	AWizzArd	antifuchs: you can specify a last form in condp which is used as default of no other match is found. It should not be a pair of test and expression, but only an expression.
07:20	antifuchs	that makes sense; for this case, the exception is better, though (:
07:51	AWizzArd	antifuchs: yesterday we were talking about defining a my-apply, and I mentioned your macro which can fake it for some cases of apply. Maybe we should try a clojure version of it?
07:55	antifuchs	which of my macros? (-:
08:04	AWizzArd	you once wrote a macro that can create apply like functions
08:17	tsdh	Sorry for asking again, but is it possible to override a static method of a standard java class using swank and clojure?
08:19	rhickey_	tsdh: there's really no such thing as 'overriding' a static method. Do you want to replace it, or have a same-named function in a derived class?
08:19	AWizzArd	tsdh: I am not a Java man, but I would say that it is not possible to override any method. The official way to do that could be to derive a class and have a method there with the same name.
08:20	tsdh	rhickey_: Right, I want to replace it.
08:20	rhickey_	tsdh: not possible
08:20	tsdh	Too bad. Thanks anyway.
08:21	AWizzArd	tsdh: I think it is not bad, but instead extremly good. One should not be able to do that. Also one should not be able to replace 14 with a -3.
08:23	tsdh	At least in my situation it would be handy. I have to use a component which is just a blackbox (jar), and profiling shows that most time is spent in StrictMath.floor(). But nothing relies on complience of StrictMath, so Math.floor() would be as good, but possibly much faster.
08:40	in-code-we-trust	is planned to port clojure to .net/mono framework?
08:50	hoeck	in-code-we-trust: http://code.google.com/p/clojure-contrib/source/browse/#svn/trunk/ClojureCLR is the beginning of a clojure port to .net
08:50	in-code-we-trust	hoeck: thnx
10:06	hiredman	http://blogs.sun.com/CoreJavaTechTips/entry/closing_a_urlclassloader
10:10	cemerick	heh. I remember having to implement that sort of thing in my own home-baked classloader years ago. Nice to see it's going to be available in jdk SEVEN!
10:11	AWizzArd	Will jdk 7 also support tagged numbers?
10:11	cemerick	AWizzArd: I thought not, but I'll bet rhickey_ has the latest scoop there.
10:11	clojurebot	latest is 1337
10:11	rhickey_	AWizzArd: nope
10:12	AWizzArd	I see.
10:12	cemerick	of course it's jdk SEVEN, which likely won't be released for another 9-12 months, nevermind usable for redistributed libraries, etc. :-/
10:13	cemerick	probably brought on by grumpiness associated with being back in Swing-land
10:14	AWizzArd	ah, but will they not have improvements for Swing in jdk 7?
10:14	cemerick	Chouser: FYI, titanium isn't fully-baked yet, BTW.
10:14	cemerick	AWizzArd: you're just trying to bait me :-D
10:23	danlarkin	morning clojurecrats!
10:23	WizardofWestmarc	morning danlarkin
10:23	WizardofWestmarc	btw finally got around to getting madison loadable in my repl last weekend
10:40	gnuvince	Is anyone here knowledgeable about java.nio? Specifically, I need to know if I can have a view Buffer (for example, (.asIntBuffer byte-buf)) where change in the position of one affects the other?
10:41	Cark	gnuvince : if you find out let me know
10:41	Cark	may i ask what you're doing with nio ?
10:41	gnuvince	Cark: http://bitbucket.org/gnuvince/clj-starcraft/src
10:42	gnuvince	Cark: I found that the program that is backed by the unpacking Java library that I use is more than an order of magniture faster than my Clojure implementation.
10:42	gnuvince	I've been toying around for the past 2-3 weeks trying to find some way to give my program a boost
10:42	gnuvince	I've been unsuccessful so far.
10:43	Cark	so you turning to nio ?
10:43	gnuvince	I used nio, but I used getShort and getInt on the byte buffer
10:44	gnuvince	I'm want to try with view buffers (which the documentation says could improve performance), but if I can't keep track of what's been read, I don't gain a lot.
10:45	Cark	i see ... i'm working on a TCP server
10:45	Cark	with ssl
10:45	gnuvince	More useful than what I'm doing :)
10:45	Cark	haha well who cares =P
10:46	Cark	it's too ugly right now to let anybody see it
10:46	clojurebot	it is too
10:46	antifuchs	AWizzArd: (about the apply macro) omg, that was supposed to be humorous (:
10:46	gnuvince	Hmmm
10:46	gnuvince	Well I guess I'll have to manually move the buffer :-/
10:48	AWizzArd	antifuchs: Was a nice hack anyway. And it even worked for several cases.
10:49	Cark	i found this buffer business is all very imperative
10:49	Cark	clojure isn't so well suited for that
10:49	antifuchs	AWizzArd: you're starting to scare me ((-:
10:49	antifuchs	but I'm glad that it works (:
11:08	danlarkin	WizardofWestmarc: sweet! Wish I had more (any) time to improve on it, work picked up as we near a launch
11:13	duderdo	Hello!
11:13	duderdo	How can I step through my clojure code to debug?
11:14	hiredman	as far as debuggers go, most people use jswat
11:15	hiredman	I think
11:15	hiredman	I just write little functions and test them
11:15	duderdo	But there's no step like in SBCL?
11:15	duderdo	Hrm, okay thanks
11:16	AWizzArd	Btw, did anyone here use Maven for her Clojure projects?
11:17	hiredman	woa
11:31	triddell	FYI: I just posted links to some android/clojure tutorials I wrote to the google group.
11:31	triddell	android with emacs and clojure that is
11:31	AWizzArd	Is there a problem to have a namespace having the name of some Java class? Example (ns com.company.XmlRpcClient (:include (org.apache.xmlrpc.client XmlRpcClient)) (:gen-class))
11:32	danlarkin	AWizzArd: perhaps you meant :import instead of :include?
11:32	AWizzArd	right, :import
11:33	danlarkin	oh, thought that might've been in your actual code
11:33	AWizzArd	No sorry, my thoughts were drifting away a bit while I typed that.
11:45	WizardofWestmarc	danlarkin: understandable. At some point (not now, not at lappy w/the setup) I will probably need to pick your brain a bit to get it actually running a web page
11:45	WizardofWestmarc	and once I get going I may see about doing updates myself to help you out if need be.
11:45	danlarkin	rad
12:16	kefka	I may have found a bug (?) in clojure.set/difference:
12:16	kefka	,(clojure.set/difference #{0 1 2} [0 2])
12:16	clojurebot	#{1}
12:16	kefka	,(clojure.set/difference #{0 2} [0 1 2])
12:16	clojurebot	#{}
12:16	hiredman	,(doc clojure.set/difference)
12:16	clojurebot	"([s1] [s1 s2] [s1 s2 & sets]); Return a set that is the first set without elements of the remaining sets"
12:16	kefka	,(clojure.set/difference #{"0" "2"} ["0" "1" "2]")
12:16	clojurebot	Unmatched delimiter: )
12:16	kefka	,(clojure.set/difference #{"0" "2"} ["0" "1" "2"])
12:16	clojurebot	#{"0" "2"}
12:16	stuhood	hmm.
12:16	kefka	It worked fine for the difference of #{0 2} [0 1 2], returning the empty set.
12:16	stuhood	,(class #{"1"})
12:16	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentHashSet
12:16	hiredman	,(clojure.set/difference #{"0" "2"} #{"0" "1" "2"})
12:16	clojurebot	#{}
12:16	hiredman	if you are doing set operations, use sets
12:16	kefka	Yes, it works properly if you convert it into a set.
12:16	kefka	It's not a major issue, but it threw me off, because I had assumed that the 2nd element could be an arbitrary collection.
12:16	hiredman	the fact that it works on non-sets should be considered an accident
12:16	AWizzArd	That could be easily done, but you need to be aware that this is potentially a very slow operation.
12:16	hiredman	the doc string only mentions sets
12:17	kefka	It's also awkward that this bug (as easy as it is to work around) works on integers but not strings.
12:17	AWizzArd	It is very fast to loop up if X is an element of a set. But to test if X is an element of a vector is in general not a fast operation.
12:18	hiredman	I fail to see how having undefined behaviour for something not covered by the docstring is a bug
12:18	hiredman	~def clojure.set/difference
12:18	slashus2	,(clojure.set/difference #{0 1 2} #{1})
12:18	clojurebot	#{0 2}
12:19	slashus2	,(clojure.set/difference #{0 1 2} [1])
12:19	clojurebot	#{0 2}
12:19	slashus2	That is what you are trying to do?
12:19	slashus2	You take the elements in the first set, and remove the elements in the remaining set.
12:28	AWizzArd	what this function could do is maybe throwing an exception
12:28	AWizzArd	if not both args are sets
12:28	slashus2	,(clojure.set/difference [0])
12:28	clojurebot	[0]
12:28	AWizzArd	Even better if it would throw a compile time exception. This could be done with Gradual Typing. See http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_frm/thread/7a48f48e4b197a15
12:28	hiredman	AWizzArd: if you want it, it would be great if you could write it :P
12:28	AWizzArd	Unrealistic, as I have no time for that. sigh
12:28	hiredman	I think it would be nice, but I don't constantly bring it up, because I am not actively working/thinking about it
12:29	AWizzArd	I also think it would be nice, even very nice. As long it is optional.
12:30	AWizzArd	And I think it is also no problem at all to bring up an issue from time to time, even if one is not the right person for implementing it.
12:30	hiredman	sure
12:30	AWizzArd	What I can offer is to be an extensive tester for this.
12:34	hiredman	,(- 2176 - 2009)
12:34	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.core$___3339 cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
12:34	hiredman	,(- 2176 2009)
12:34	clojurebot	167
13:45	Lau_of_DK	Hey guys
13:47	danlarkin	Hello to my favorite dane
13:48	Lau_of_DK	Uh what an honor :)
14:02	kefka	Is there a fast way O(log n) of getting the min. and max. elements from a sorted set?
14:04	Lau_of_DK	(apply max set)
14:04	Lau_of_DK	?
14:04	kefka	I'm thinking that would call max with all the elements as args.
14:04	kefka	(first (seq set)) should work for the minimum.
14:04	cgrand	kefka: first and peek ?
14:04	kefka	(doc peek)
14:04	clojurebot	For a list or queue, same as first, for a vector, same as, but much more efficient than, last. If the collection is empty, returns nil.; arglists ([coll])
14:04	cgrand	maybe not
14:04	hiredman	erm
14:04	kefka	peek does not work on sorted-sets
14:04	hiredman	,(last (seq set))?
14:04	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: core$set__4299
14:04	hiredman	,(sort-set 1 4 3 2)
14:04	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: sort-set in this context
14:04	cgrand	,(.last (sorted-set 1 4 3 2))
14:04	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: last for class clojure.lang.PersistentTreeSet
14:04	kefka	,(let [the-set (apply sorted-set (range 100000))] (time (first the-set)))
14:04	clojurebot	0
14:04	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 0.111 msecs"
14:04	kefka	,(let [the-set (apply sorted-set (range 100000))] (time (last the-set)))
14:04	clojurebot	99999
14:04	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 133.447 msecs"
14:04	kefka	,(let [the-set (apply sorted-set (range 100000))] (time (first (reverse the-set))))
14:04	clojurebot	99999
14:04	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 160.627 msecs"
14:05	cgrand	clojure's sorted sets don't implement java.util.SortedSet !?
14:05	kefka	,(let [the-set (apply sorted-set (range 100000))] (time (first (subseq the-set > -1000))))
14:05	clojurebot	0
14:06	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 2.758 msecs"
14:06	durka42	(doc subseq)
14:06	clojurebot	sc must be a sorted collection, test(s) one of <, <=, > or >=. Returns a seq of those entries with keys ek for which (test (.. sc comparator (compare ek key)) 0) is true; arglists ([sc test key] [sc start-test start-key end-test end-key])
14:07	cgrand	,(first (rseq (sorted-set 2 4 3 1)))
14:07	clojurebot	4
14:07	kefka	,(let [the-set (apply sorted-set (range 100000))] (time (first (rseq the-set))))
14:07	clojurebot	99999
14:07	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 0.065 msecs"
14:08	kefka	rseq is the trick.
14:08	kefka	Apparently rseq is smart enough re: sorted sets to read efficiently from the max-end.
14:11	cgrand	rseq works on anything that implements IReversible
14:59	hiredman	I wonder if there is someway to make ring play with quercus
14:59	hiredman	~ring
14:59	clojurebot	ring is http://github.com/mmcgrana/ring/tree/master
14:59	durka42	ick, why would you want to use php :)
14:59	marklar	How do you call the super class constructor when you are extending a Java class with gen-class?
15:00	marklar	erm, sorry I meant a super class method, not constructor
15:02	hiredman	you would use :exposes-methods
15:02	hiredman	http://clojure.org/API#gen-class
15:04	marklar	hiredman: thanks, I read that completely wrong
15:36	Raynes	hiredman: You're still my hero <3
16:07	cemerick	rhickey: it looks like AOT compilation hangs if a JFrame is created and .pack()'ed as a side effect of loading the file(s) being compiled. That's obviously not good in general (I hit this while mucking around casually), but perhaps some mechanism should exist so that the compilation process is safe from non-referentially-tranparent expressions being def'ed? This sort of thing would be a bear to debug in anything other than a trivial file.
16:26	hiredman	~ticker JAVA
16:29	clojurebot	JAVA; -7.54
16:29	rsynnott	sun still in its IBM-acquisition-possibility glow, I see
16:29	danlarkin	haha
16:29	rsynnott	(they only want it for the ticker symbol)
16:29	clojurebot	it is too
16:29	cemerick	the #1 thing that will come out of that acquisition will be the elimination of the JAVA ticker :-)
16:29	danlarkin	which exchanges does clojurebot know about?
16:29	hiredman	that is triggered far to often
16:29	danlarkin	~ticker CHINA
16:29	clojurebot	CHINA; -5.26
16:29	danlarkin	:( china
16:29	rsynnott	cemerick: nah, IBM will start using it for themselves
16:29	rsynnott	they have a bit of a java fetish these days
16:29	hiredman	I have no real idea how to read the json data from google for finance stuff
16:29	cemerick	not enough that they'd drop IBM...
16:29	danlarkin	hiredman: how do you mean? to get info other than the delta for the day?
16:29	hiredman	yeah
16:29	hiredman	http://www.google.com/finance/info?q=JAVA
16:30	durka42	~ticker GM
16:30	clojurebot	GM; -25.41
16:30	hiredman	I remove junk at the begining and at the end of that and use your json parser on it
16:30	danlarkin	yeah this is oddly formatted
16:30	danlarkin	/ [
16:30	danlarkin	er double slash open bracket, wonder what that's about
16:30	hiredman	and the closing bracket
16:30	durka42	a comment
16:30	danlarkin	json doesn't have comments, but even if I were to accept it was supposed to be a comment... why is it in the production feed? and why is the closer still there? it's wacky!
16:30	hiredman	~ticker IDSGX
16:30	clojurebot	IDSGX; -2.17
16:52	cooldude127	do we already have a clojure library for writing CSV files?
16:53	clojurebot	clojure is the brand
16:53	hiredman	I don't think so. I have used supercsv in the past with clojure http://supercsv.sourceforge.net/
16:53	hiredman	it seems decent enough
16:53	zakwilson	cooldude127: I wrote my own library to read/write CSV. It's simple, but it works.
16:53	hiredman	writing csv parses :(
16:53	cooldude127	zakwilson: you have a link to the code? i'm feeling lazy
16:53	zakwilson	http://github.com/zakwilson/zutil-clj/tree/master
16:53	zakwilson	May be out of date.
16:53	cooldude127	we'll find out, i probably could write something on my own, but CSV is not my focus right now
16:55	hiredman	why not supercsv?
16:56	cooldude127	just trying to get a job done, real quick for a project, so if i don't have to mess with the classpath right now, it's better
16:57	zakwilson	cooldude127: if it's simple enough, my library will do.
16:58	cooldude127	yeah just generating some values in clj, need to plot them on a graph
16:59	zakwilson	Give it a try. BSD license.
17:13	danlarkin	NIHsyndrome.com
17:13	hiredman	I guess its not too bed if you are generating your own csv file
17:58	duderdo	What's the best way to figure out how to use swing components in clojure? Looking at the java docs is overwhelming to say the least
17:59	danlarkin	ughhhh bitten again by not being able to give metadata to Strings
17:59	danlarkin	grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
17:59	zakwilson	danlarkin: if you're talking about my CSV library as NIH syndrome, that may be the case, but using the first couple Java libs I found looked harder than just writing one in Clojure.
17:59	slashus2	It may be useful to make it to where strings can accept metadata.
18:00	danlarkin	I would even accept (with-meta "foo" {:foo :bar}) returning a clojure.lang.String, which could implement IObj
18:00	slashus2	I guess it is for compatibility purposes.
18:00	slashus2	?
18:01	danlarkin	well it's so strings can be java.lang.Strings
18:01	AWizzArd_	danlarkin: you could write your own with-meta macro which expands into with-meta for all data, but for strings it will write the data into your own hashmap
18:01	danlarkin	and metadata-able classes must implement IObj, which java.lang.String does not
18:02	danlarkin	AWizzArd_: but I don't want to return a hashmap, I want a string :/
18:02	AWizzArd_	the macro could return a string, but under the hood write into your own metadata container
18:03	AWizzArd_	instead of using the official getter/setter for metadata you write your own
18:03	AWizzArd_	and use those instead
18:03	danlarkin	except in the case that I want to ignore the metadata... I can't, because now I'm returning a hashmap instead of a string
18:03	AWizzArd_	(danlarkins-with-meta ...)
18:04	danlarkin	might as well just return a hashmap with a :text attribute and whatever metadata I wanted, put it right in the hashmap
18:05	AWizzArd_	Yes, but then all your code needs to deal with a hashmap, and not a string
18:05	danlarkin	but wouldn't that be the case with the way you're suggesting too, or am I missing something?
18:06	AWizzArd_	what i was thinking about was more: you have a (def string-metadata (ref {})) into which you put the metadata for your strings, when you use your (danlarkins-with-meta ...)
18:07	danlarkin	ohhh. hm
18:07	danlarkin	that's awful ugly :-/
18:07	AWizzArd_	why?
18:07	hiredman	zakwilson: supercvs's CVSReader is very nice
18:08	AWizzArd_	danlarkin: instead of (meta ..) for reading metadata, you can use (danlarkins-meta ..). And instead of (with-meta ..) for attaching meta data, you will use danlarkins-with-meta.
18:09	AWizzArd_	It would look basically the same to what you have now, only the name changes.
18:09	hiredman	http://gist.github.com/87909 is kind of a bad example because the data I was reading was very, uh, dirty
18:10	danlarkin	AWizzArd_: sorta... except for some crucial areas, like two different "copes" of the same string couldn't have different metadata, which I need
18:11	danlarkin	sorry, "copies"
18:12	danlarkin	instances would actually be a better word
18:12	danlarkin	welp... I guess I just have to return a map with :text
18:12	hiredman	having a metadata slot is so nice, I wonder if sun would consider adding one to Object :P
18:12	AWizzArd_	danlarkin: if Java makes it possible to fetch the address of an object in ram, then you would have a unique key for your meta data store
18:13	AWizzArd_	makes it possible ==> allows
18:15	AWizzArd_	Also you could work around this and add all strings into a vector, which you traverse and then check for identity.
18:15	danlarkin	I think Java does... doesn't it? how does identical? work
18:15	AWizzArd_	The actual string + the index in that vector could be the key then
18:15	AWizzArd_	Of course it must be possible somehow, otherwise the GC couldn't work. I just don't know if Sun gives users access to that information.
18:16	danlarkin	I think I'm going with the path of least resistance
18:17	AWizzArd_	danlarkin: anyway, if you don't care strongly about amazing performance for retrieving metadata, and if you don't intend to have millions of copies of otherwise identical strings, then the trick with a hashmap + vector would be ok
18:17	hiredman	,(identical "a" "a")
18:17	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: identical in this context
18:17	hiredman	,(identical? "a" "a")
18:17	clojurebot	true
18:18	AWizzArd_	because those are constants
18:18	hiredman	,(identical? "a" (str \a))
18:18	clojurebot	false
18:18	AWizzArd_	good :)
18:18	AWizzArd_	so, make that macro store these strings in a vector
18:18	hiredman	,(identical? (str \a) (str \a))
18:18	clojurebot	false
18:19	hiredman	,({(str \a) 1 (str \a) 2} "a")
18:19	clojurebot	1
18:19	hiredman	ugh
18:19	hiredman	hmmmm
18:19	AWizzArd_	when reading the metadata you make a lookup for that string. If that key does not exist, traverse your vector (filter #(identical? % s) vector-of-metadata-strings)
18:19	clojurebot	for is a loop...in Java
18:19	AWizzArd_	if that returns something, then make another lookup in the hashmap for the vector ["String here" index]
18:20	AWizzArd_	and that will then return the metadata for you
18:20	AWizzArd_	even for copies
18:21	AWizzArd_	bah, my filter above misses the indexes of course
18:21	hiredman	~def c.l.IObj
18:21	hiredman	hmmm
18:21	hiredman	~def c.l.IMeta
18:21	danlarkin	AWizzArd_: I think that's just too much hassle for what I'm doing
18:22	AWizzArd_	well, it first sounded as if you really want metadata for strings
18:22	hiredman	you could proxy String Imeta and IObj
18:22	danlarkin	I do... but not at the cost of totally uglifying the program
18:22	AWizzArd_	And Clojure is a Lisp, so for a lot of things you won't need its implementor to do work for you.
18:22	AWizzArd_	But where would that program become ugly?
18:22	AWizzArd_	We are talking here about writing two macros of 5-10 lines each
18:22	hiredman	,(proxy [String] [IMeta IObj] [])
18:22	clojurebot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.lang.RuntimePermission accessDeclaredMembers)
18:22	hiredman	oh
18:23	hiredman	String is final
18:23	AWizzArd_	yes
18:23	hiredman	of course
18:23	hiredman	Jerks
18:23	AWizzArd_	hehe :)
18:23	danlarkin	having to use a ref to store metadata is ugly
18:23	AWizzArd_	Why?
18:23	AWizzArd_	It is state
18:24	danlarkin	not really
18:24	AWizzArd_	mete data is about side effects / state change
18:24	AWizzArd_	Some memory cells in your computer change their electric charge
18:24	danlarkin	haha cmon that's being silly
18:25	AWizzArd_	Why?
18:25	clojurebot	why not?
18:25	AWizzArd_	clever bot
18:25	danlarkin	qed
18:25	hiredman	clojurebot: botsnack
18:25	clojurebot	thanks; that was delicious. (nom nom nom)
18:25	AWizzArd_	got too many botsnacks or what?
18:25	hiredman	~ticker GOOG
18:25	clojurebot	GOOG; -1.44
18:25	AWizzArd_	what is ticker?
18:25	zakwilson	hiredman: superCSV looks quite usable. I'll probably use that next time I need CSV.
18:25	stuhood	~ticker RAX
18:25	clojurebot	RAX; -7.04
18:25	AWizzArd_	ah
18:26	AWizzArd_	~ticker CLJ
18:26	hiredman	java.io.IOException: Server returned HTTP response code: 400 for URL: http://www.google.com/finance/info?q=CLJ
18:26	stuhood	hahaha
18:26	AWizzArd_	danlarkin: instead of a ref you can use a java.util.Hashmap
18:27	AWizzArd_	I mean, how does Clojure store its meta data?
18:27	danlarkin	AWizzArd_: but that'd still be state... but worse state
18:28	hiredman	a persistant map
18:28	stuhood	clojure stores its metadata in a clojure datastructure
18:28	clojurebot	clojure is far closer to perfection then python
18:28	AWizzArd_	danlarkin: then how is Clojure doing it right now?
18:28	hiredman	it sure is
18:28	stuhood	that's why (with-meta) doesn't modify the argument you give it
18:28	hiredman	but alter-meta! does
18:28	stuhood	well, yea... because namespaces are magical =(
18:28	hiredman	~def alter-meta!
18:28	AWizzArd_	thx hiredman
18:29	hiredman	,(meta ns)
18:29	clojurebot	{:killroy-was-here #<Date Sun Mar 29 14:41:43 PDT 2009>, :a 1}
18:29	stuhood	haha
18:29	danlarkin	ha!
18:29	AWizzArd_	wtf? ;)
18:29	hiredman	,(alter-meta! ns update-in [:killroy-was-here] conj (Date.))
18:29	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.util.Date cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IPersistentCollection
18:29	hiredman	,(alter-meta! ns update-in [:killroy-was-here] cons (Date.))
18:29	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: Date
18:30	hiredman	,(alter-meta! ns update-in [:killroy-was-here] list (Date.))
18:30	clojurebot	{:killroy-was-here (#<Date Sun Mar 29 14:41:43 PDT 2009> #<Date Mon Mar 30 15:28:43 PDT 2009>), :a 1}
18:31	AWizzArd_	oh
18:33	lisppaste8	hoeck pasted "danlarkins-with-meta" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77793
18:33	hiredman	,(alter-meta! ns assoc :update (fn [] (alter-meta! ns update-in [:killroy-was-here] conj (Date.))))
18:33	clojurebot	{:update #<sandbox$eval__4753$fn__4755 sandbox$eval__4753$fn__4755@16aee36>, :killroy-was-here (#<Date Sun Mar 29 14:41:43 PDT 2009> #<Date Mon Mar 30 15:28:43 PDT 2009>), :a 1}
18:33	AWizzArd_	there you go
18:33	AWizzArd_	hoeck ist schnell
18:34	hiredman	,((:update (meta ns)))
18:34	clojurebot	{:update #<sandbox$eval__4753$fn__4755 sandbox$eval__4753$fn__4755@16aee36>, :killroy-was-here (#<Date Mon Mar 30 15:32:44 PDT 2009> #<Date Sun Mar 29 14:41:43 PDT 2009> #<Date Mon Mar 30 15:28:43 PDT 2009>), :a 1}
18:35	stuhood	somebody could probably run clojurebot out of memory like that, right?
18:35	hiredman	I guess
18:35	AWizzArd_	yes, and hiredman would then ban her
18:35	AWizzArd_	:-)
18:35	danlarkin	why not add alter-meta! to the blocked forms?
18:36	hiredman	because it's a drag
18:52	devo	Is there a way to defn a function with a name that is generated at runtime?
18:52	devo	for example, here's what I'm trying:
18:52	devo	(def f "foo")
18:52	devo	(defn (symbol f) [x] (+ x 1))
18:52	Cark	why do you want to do this ?
18:52	hiredman	sure
18:52	hiredman	you can use gensym
18:52	hiredman	(defmacro defnsym [& body] `(defn ~(gensym) ~@body))
18:52	hiredman	something along those lines
18:52	Cark	that's generated at compile time
18:52	hiredman	right
18:52	AWizzArd_	gensym is just an ordinary function
18:52	hiredman	runtime
18:52	AWizzArd_	call it at runtime
18:53	hiredman	yeah
18:53	AWizzArd_	And if you need many functions, then store them in a hashmap, with the name that you generate some time during runtime
18:53	hiredman	I agree with Cark
18:53	hiredman	why do you want to do this?
18:53	Cark	hum another question along the same line : how do you add a def to a namespace at runtime ?
18:53	Cark	a var i mean
18:53	hiredman	I would check the namespaces page on clojure.org
18:53	Cark	,(find-doc "ns-assoc")
18:53	clojurebot	nil
18:53	dnolen	,(doc intern)
18:53	clojurebot	"([ns name] [ns name val]); Finds or creates a var named by the symbol name in the namespace ns (which can be a symbol or a namespace), setting its root binding to val if supplied. The namespace must exist. The var will adopt any metadata from the name symbol. Returns the var."
18:53	devo	I'm reading in an XML file that represents database relationships, I was thinking I could essentially define a function for each table that contains its relationships
18:53	devo	so, if I have tables: A, B and C and I know A joins to B, and B joins to C, I could call something like (A (B C)) which would give me all the join info I need to dynamically build sql
18:53	Cark	ah intern of course ><
18:53	Cark	sot here you have it ... intern the name, then assicoate a lambda with it
18:53	hiredman	devo: use a map
18:53	clojurebot	map is LAZY
18:53	hiredman	clojurebot: shut your pie hole
18:54	clojurebot	Excuse me?
18:54	hiredman	clojurebot: you heard me
18:54	clojurebot	Excuse me?
18:54	AWizzArd_	g
18:55	devo	I'll try it. I'm still dusting the cobwebs off of my LISP.
18:55	hiredman	you most likely will want (def table-functions (ref {}))
18:57	gnuvince_	~seen cgrand
18:57	clojurebot	cgrand was last seen quiting IRC, 56 minutes ago
18:58	Cark	,(intern ns (symbol "bleh") (fn [] "bleh!"))
18:58	clojurebot	#'sandbox/bleh
18:58	Cark	,(bleh)
18:58	clojurebot	"bleh!"
18:59	Cark	hehe hiredman =P
18:59	hiredman	~you heard me is <reply>#who: I'm just giving you a second chance
18:59	clojurebot	Ack. Ack.
18:59	hiredman	~you hear me!
18:59	clojurebot	excusez-moi
18:59	hiredman	~you heard me!
18:59	clojurebot	hiredman: I'm just giving you a second chance
19:00	hiredman	Cark: shhh
19:03	Cark	though i can't imagine a single instance where creating a named function at run time would be usefull
19:04	Cark	maybe creating the functional interface to an object system ...
19:05	hiredman	yeah, but how would you use it?
19:05	hiredman	you need some kind of handle on the names
19:05	Cark	right
19:41	hjlee	someone said contributors can't accept patchs from non-contributor.
19:42	hjlee	is that right?
19:43	danlarkin	the clojure and clojure-contrib codebases cannot, yes
19:43	hjlee	can anyone be contributor, then?
19:43	chessguy	err, is there a multi-line comment in clojure?
19:43	dnolen	,(doc comment)
19:43	clojurebot	"([& body]); Ignores body, yields nil"
19:43	danlarkin	hjlee: clojure.org/contributing
19:43	chessguy	sorry, i'm new to clojure and i'm not sure how to read that
19:43	clojurebot	new Class(x) is (Class. x)
19:43	chessguy	wow, thanks clojurebot , that's helpful!
19:43	chessguy	:)
19:43	Chousuke	,(comment works like this)
19:43	clojurebot	nil
19:43	chessguy	cute
19:43	hjlee	danlarkin: thank you.
19:44	chessguy	Chousuke: thanks
19:46	durka42	,(+ #_3 4 5)
19:46	clojurebot	9
19:47	durka42	,(+ #_(this type of comment is ignored completely, not even nil) 4 5)
19:47	clojurebot	9
19:50	gnuvince_	How do I specify a type hint in a macro?
20:09	chessguy	so i'm looking at the macros page on clojure.org
20:10	chessguy	it has this example:
20:10	chessguy	user=> (macroexpand '(-> {} (assoc :a 1) (assoc :b 2)))
20:10	chessguy	(assoc (clojure.core/-> {} (assoc :a 1)) :b 2)
20:10	chessguy	am i reading this right, that the -> is left in the result of the macro expansion?
20:10	clojurebot	this is not a bug
20:10	chessguy	(macroexpand '(-> {} (assoc :a 1))
20:10	chessguy	,(macroexpand '(-> {} (assoc :a 1))
20:10	clojurebot	EOF while reading
20:10	stuhood	chessguy: i think it is defined recursively
20:10	chessguy	,(macroexpand '(-> {} (assoc :a 1)))
20:10	clojurebot	(assoc {} :a 1)
20:10	stuhood	so -> expands to calling itself if you give it multiple forms
20:10	chessguy	stuhood: so the reader will automatically expand it again?
20:10	chessguy	(or whatever does the expansions)
20:10	stuhood	i believe so... there might be another macroexpand that expands recursively like the reader would
20:10	chessguy	interesting
20:10	stuhood	"Note neither macroexpand-1 nor macroexpand expand macros in subforms."
20:11	stuhood	clojurebot was right... it wasn't a bug =x
20:11	chessguy	haha
20:11	chessguy	that's one smart bot!
20:34	gnuvince_	,(let [x 0] (time (dotimes [_ 1000000] x)))
20:35	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 87.759 msecs"
20:36	gnuvince_	,(time (dotimes [_ 1000000] map))
20:36	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 103.385 msecs"
20:36	stuhood	,(map)
20:36	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: core$map
20:50	hiredman	,(let [x map] (time (dotimes [_ 1000000] x)))
20:53	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 86.389 msecs"
20:53	durka42	so the 20ish ms comes from looking up vars?
20:53	texodus	Is there any way to check the metadata of a symbol passed as an argument to a macro?
20:53	hiredman	yes
20:53	hiredman	would you like to know what it is?
20:53	durka42	#^symbol
20:53	durka42	that's not it
20:53	durka42	^#'symbol if you want the metadata of the var that the symbol names
20:53	texodus	reader metadata?
20:53	dnolen	durka: i don't think will work from the macro because it's a reader macro, you'll have to use (meta (var sym)), am I wrong?
20:53	texodus	hmm - when I use ^#'symbol in a defmacro, it does not compile
20:53	dnolen	#' is a reader macro
20:53	dnolen	so it won't work from your macro definition.
20:53	texodus	ah, makes sense, the symbol is not bound yet
20:54	durka42	(meta (var symbol))
20:54	durka42	maybe `(meta (var ~symbol))
20:55	durka42	,(let [s 'map] (macroexpand `(meta (var ~s))))
20:55	clojurebot	(clojure.core/meta (var map))
20:55	durka42	,(macroexpand '^#'map)
20:55	clojurebot	(clojure.core/meta (var map))
20:58	slashus2	ThreeBot: clj (print "Test\nQUIT :This bot has been hacked")
20:59	slashus2	Sorry, pasted it wrong.
20:59	texodus	(var symbol) causes this same problem
21:00	dnolen	yeah because var is a special form
21:00	texodus	ic
21:08	lisppaste8	dnolen pasted "macro to grab meta on var" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77797
21:11	dnolen	texodus: hopefully that will help, if anyone knows a better way please chime in.
21:11	dnolen	qualify-sym is Chouser's great handywork, lifted from error-kit
21:15	slashus2	hiredman: If you ran (print "Test\nQUIT :test") on your bot would it run the QUIT command? It did on mine :-( I had to strip out \n and \r to keep that from happening.
21:15	hiredman	,(print "Test\nQUIT :test")
21:15	clojurebot	Test QUIT :test
21:15	hiredman	is there a QUIT command?
21:16	hiredman	I am not aware of one
21:16	durka42	(.write out "Test\nQUIT :test")
21:16	durka42	,(.write out "Test\nQUIT :test")
21:16	clojurebot	Test QUIT :test
21:16	slashus2	The reason it worked on my bot is because it printed the lines by themselves.
21:16	hiredman	well, I strip newlines anyway
21:17	slashus2	I am doing that now.
21:17	slashus2	QUIT makes it leave the network.
21:17	hiredman	~quit is <reply>QUIT
21:18	clojurebot	c'est bon!
21:18	slashus2	Apparently. That is what it did to mine.
21:18	hiredman	~quit
21:18	clojurebot	QUIT
21:18	slashus2	If you turn off line stripping, and run that command, it will work.
21:18	slashus2	You can also make it send private messages that way too.
21:32	texodus	ah, this works well, thanks dnolen
21:34	dnolen	texodus: cool.
21:48	chessguy	are there other code-as-data languages, besides lisps?
22:33	danlarkin	Aw nuts:
22:33	danlarkin	,(instance? clojure.lang.IObj (delay))
22:33	clojurebot	false
22:33	hiredman	,(ancestors (class (delay)))
22:33	clojurebot	#{clojure.lang.IDeref java.lang.Object}
22:33	hiredman	you could proxy IDeref IMeta and IObj
22:35	danlarkin	yeah I could proxy clojure.lang.Delay
22:44	hiredman	Delay takes a Fn
22:50	hiredman	I guess you could just use a atom
23:29	arohner	rhickey: can you please go into more detail about why (get ref :foo) should return nil?
23:32	danlarkin	(delay (println "foo"))
23:32	danlarkin	,(delay (println "foo"))
23:32	clojurebot	foo #<Delay@1bce011: nil>
23:32	danlarkin	why does that print foo without the delay having force called upon it?
23:32	hiredman	print a delay drefs it
23:32	danlarkin	doh
23:33	danlarkin	,(let [d (delay (println "foo"))] 5)
23:33	clojurebot	5
23:33	danlarkin	tada
23:38	danlarkin	wow... that was a really annoying bug to track down
23:39	danlarkin	and it was, of course, entirely my fault
23:39	danlarkin	clojurebot: map?
23:39	clojurebot	map is LAZY
23:39	danlarkin	yes, yes it is
23:52	gnuvince_	-Xprof reports that 20% of my program is spent in java.lang.reflect.Array.set; I have a type hint for that array, is there anything else to avoid reflection?