#clojure – 2009-02-07

2009-02-07

00:02	gnuvince_	I don't get why the type hint doesn't work with .get and .getShort
00:03	gnuvince_	Reflection warning, line: 16 - call to and can't be resolved.
00:03	Chouser	yeah, it's the bit-and that's complaining
00:04	Chouser	i'm working on that
00:04	Chouser	but I just realized I'm using a patched clojure and it my be acting differently...
00:08	gnuvince_	Got it
00:09	lisppaste8	gnuvince pasted "avoiding reflection" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75003
00:10	Chouser	you found a pathalogical corner case there. :-)
00:12	gnuvince_	Is that what Rich means when he talks about wanting the JVM to support unboxing?
00:12	gnuvince_	I cannot recall the exact wording
00:15	Chouser	it does support unboxing. But he wants tagged numbers, I think it's called, where you'd get number "objects" that are as small and fast as primitives, but can be passed around and introspected like Object
00:16	Chouser	so you'd still need type hints of the #^ByteBuffer variety, but the mucking about with primitive locals and stuff I think would go away.
00:17	gnuvince_	OK
00:17	gnuvince_	That'd be cool.
00:17	Chouser	indeed!
00:17	gnuvince_	The profiling just finished
00:17	gnuvince_	the first mention of reflect is at position 460 (for my dump.clj script where I don't use a hint)
00:17	Chouser	good!
00:17	gnuvince_	Calling the unpack function from the REPL takes about 300 ms
00:18	Chouser	is the whole thing any faster?
00:18	gnuvince_	(down from 5-6 seconds)
00:18	Chouser	nice
00:18	gnuvince_	Very much so, yes.
00:18	gnuvince_	Thanks for the help
00:18	Chouser	you're welcome
00:18	Raynes	I wish I had a Clojurebot :\|
00:18	Chouser	Raynes: ?
00:18	Raynes	,(doc flush)
00:18	clojurebot	"([]); Flushes the output stream that is the current value of out"
00:19	gnuvince_	The first two "performance takers" are Object.wait() and ReferenceQueue.remove
00:20	Chouser	huh! you're multithreaded?
00:24	gnuvince_	no
00:25	gnuvince_	That shouldn't be there?
00:25	Chouser	oh, I don't know anything. That just sounds like waiting on a lock, but I really don't know.
00:26	gnuvince_	I see those two in every program I have.
00:26	gnuvince_	Even if they are purely functional (as starcraft.replay is)
00:26	Chouser	ok Object.wait() is just blocking until a notify. looks harmless.
01:25	Raynes	O_O
01:26	offby1	clojurebot: help
01:26	clojurebot	macro help is http://clojure-log.n01se.net/macro.html
01:26	offby1	clojurebot: source
01:26	clojurebot	I don't understand.
01:37	hiredman	clojurebot: where are you?
01:37	clojurebot	http://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot/tree/master
01:41	offby1	ah.
01:41	offby1	I guess one needs to speak the local dialect.
04:45	flap	anyone use Fiji?
04:45	flap	i dont get the scripting part, can i do it inside imageJ?
04:45	flap	i mean inside fiji?
04:45	flap	or just liek i normally do in emacs?
05:57	leafw	to flap, for the record: just open the prompt at "Plugins - Scripting - Clojure Interpreter". See http://pacific.mpi-cbg.de/wiki/index.php/Clojure_Scripting#Using_Clojure_inside_Fiji for how to create and run clojure scripts.
06:02	bakkdoor	i have a problem with using (:use <namespace>) in a (ns ..) declaration within emacs & slime. it tells me that it cant find the specified name within my classpath. how can i tell it to add the current path of the opened file to the classpath?
08:33	lpetit	Hello, all
08:33	metaperl	lpetit: hi!
08:36	lpetit	I've tried the patch to clojure.lang.Compiler.writeClassFile() that ensures that the underlying OS is synchronized before leaving. Works like a charm for me.
08:57	lpetit	rhickey: is it time to speak about this ? Or do you prefer another time to consider it ? If you please just let me know, I won't bother you with that until the time you decide.
09:43	rhickey	lpetit: what does the call to lastModified do after close()?
09:44	lpetit	Oh sorry, this call does nothing, it was from a previous attempt
09:44	lpetit	The important part is just the call to sync()
09:45	lpetit	I should not have published the code with the line containing lastModified(), my apologizes
09:45	rhickey	lpetit: np
09:46	lpetit	Before discovering the right way to force the sync, I was trying indirect ways by calling functions on the File instance ;-)
09:46	lpetit	I was just writing another e-mail (!), still concerning compilation. It'll be posted within seconds.
09:48	rhickey	lpetit: sync call in svn 1252
09:48	lpetit	Oh thank you very much!
09:49	lpetit	I must quit in 5 minutes, any chance to quickly talk about the short e-mail I just sent to the ml ?
09:50	clojurebot	svn rev 1252; added sync to writeClassFile
09:51	lpetit	Oh! clojurebot is really up to date :-)
09:53	rhickey	lpetit: I think it's an ok idea, but it's not as simple as you might think
09:55	lpetit	Argh
09:55	lpetit	If you give me some hints, maybe I can try, or is it really that 'touchy' ?
10:09	lpetit	rhickey: maybe the file path information should be added first in the source, that is as an additional metadata of the var ?
10:10	lpetit	rhickey: another option would be to have SOURCE modified to be fully qualified. But I suspect such a change would break a lot of things, even outside clojure's code base, since it would break a published contract with clojure client code ?
10:14	lpetit	I must quit now. I don't have an very powerful IRC client, so I won't be able to read further answers.
10:14	lpetit	See you,
12:33	ozy`	,(first "pizza")
12:33	clojurebot	\p
12:34	ozy`	,(rest "cheese")
12:34	clojurebot	(\h \e \e \s \e)
12:36	ozy`	,(first map)
12:36	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: core$map__3634
12:36	ozy`	,(first 'map)
12:36	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: Symbol
12:36	ayrnieu	,(-> 'map name first)
12:36	clojurebot	\m
12:37	ozy`	... I need to look that up
12:38	durka42	,(-> map var .sym name first)
12:38	clojurebot	\m
12:39	ozy`	ahhh
12:39	danlarkin	(doto map name first)
12:39	danlarkin	,(doto map name first)
12:39	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.core$map__3634 cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Named
12:39	danlarkin	bah
12:39	ayrnieu	,(macroexpand-1 '(doto map name first))
12:39	clojurebot	(clojure.core/let [G__1252 map] (name G__1252) (first G__1252) G__1252)
12:39	durka42	that won't do it
12:39	durka42	doto doesn't nest
12:40	durka42	,(macroexpand-1 '(-> map var .sym name first))
12:40	clojurebot	(clojure.core/-> (clojure.core/-> map var) .sym name first)
12:40	durka42	,(macroexpand '(-> map var .sym name first))
12:40	clojurebot	(first (clojure.core/-> (clojure.core/-> (clojure.core/-> map var) .sym) name))
12:40	danlarkin	durka42: oh duh you're right
12:41	ayrnieu	mixed -> and doto: http://paste.lisp.org/display/74762
12:41	ozy`	,(macroexpand '(fn [f g] '(fn [xs] (f (g xs)))))
12:41	clojurebot	(fn* ([f g] (quote (fn [xs] (f (g xs))))))
12:42	ozy`	,(macroexpand '(let (a b) (c d)))
12:42	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: let requires a vector for its binding
12:43	ozy`	,(macroexpand '(let [a b] (c d)))
12:43	clojurebot	(let* [a b] (c d))
12:43	ozy`	ayrnieu: PLO seems to be down for me
12:43	ayrnieu	PLO?
12:43	ozy`	paste.lisp.org
12:43	durka42	as evidenced by the fact that lisppaste8 just died
12:43	ayrnieu	still responding to me.
12:44	danlarkin	the Palestinian liberation organization?
12:44	durka42	but i don't think it's down
12:44	ayrnieu	People's Liberation Orchestra
13:03	turbo24prg	is there any function in the clojure namespace to check if a list contains an item?
13:04	turbo24prg	contains? just works on maps
13:04	danlarkin	turbo24prg: and sets!
13:06	turbo24prg	uh, strange
13:06	turbo24prg	doc just tells the [map key] signature
13:08	ayrnieu	,(map #(.contains % 3) '(1 2 3 4) [1 2 3 4])
13:08	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: sandbox$eval--1266$fn
13:08	ayrnieu	,(map #(.contains % 3) ['(1 2 3 4) [1 2 3 4]])
13:08	clojurebot	(true true)
13:10	turbo24prg	ah, .contains
13:10	turbo24prg	should be documented, imho
13:10	Chousuke	it's probably documented in the javadoc.
13:11	Chousuke	http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/util/Collection.html#contains(java.lang.Object)
13:13	danlarkin	ok, how about terpsichore as the name for my framework
13:14	danlarkin	greek muse of dance and music
13:15	ayrnieu	your what framework?
13:15	turbo24prg	i'd rather call clojure's api than java's
13:16	ayrnieu	(defn scared-of-java-contains [coll mem] (.contains coll mem)) ;; solved
13:17	danlarkin	ayrnieu: port/rewrite/reimagining of django in clojure
13:19	ayrnieu	(defn clj-at-any-cost [coll mem] ((apply hash-map (interleave coll (repeat true))) mem))
13:22	danlarkin	turbo24prg: the "clojurish" way to solve this is (some #{:y} [:x :y :z])
13:22	danlarkin	(some #{50} [1 2 3 4 50])
13:22	danlarkin	,(some #{50} [1 2 3 4 50])
13:22	clojurebot	50
13:22	danlarkin	which will evaluate to true
13:24	turbo24prg	why does that work? i thought some takes a predicate, ie. a function?
13:25	ayrnieu	,(#{50} 50)
13:25	clojurebot	50
13:25	danlarkin	,(ifn? #{})
13:25	clojurebot	true
13:28	turbo24prg	thought that works only on maps, cool
13:30	ayrnieu	,(filter ifn? ["" [] () {} #{} :k 'sym (ref 0) (atom 0) (agent 0) (var +) +])
13:30	clojurebot	([] {} #{} :k sym #<Ref@16f4ce0: 0> #'clojure.core/+ #<core$_PLUS___3183 clojure.core$_PLUS___3183@1735602>)
13:32	ayrnieu	freaky.
13:32	ayrnieu	,(let [x (ref inc)] (x 1))
13:32	clojurebot	2
13:33	ayrnieu	,('hi #{'hi 'there})
13:33	clojurebot	hi
13:45	Lau_of_DK	Good evening gents
13:48	danlarkin	Lau_of_DK: hiya!
13:48	danlarkin	Lau_of_DK: terpsichore?
13:49	durka42	hey lau
13:53	Lau_of_DK	danlarkin: terpischore? Is that some illness you have contracted? :(
13:54	danlarkin	it's the greek muse of song and dance :)
13:54	Lau_of_DK	oh
13:54	Lau_of_DK	Hows Clabango coming along?
13:56	danlarkin	haha well what do you think of terpsichore as a name
13:56	Lau_of_DK	Its pretty bad my friend
13:57	danlarkin	ugh
13:57	Lau_of_DK	:(
13:57	danlarkin	I can't release anything until I come up with a name :)
13:58	Lau_of_DK	Isnt Clabango pretty fun ?
13:59	danlarkin	well it's a step up from barkin' larkin I guess
13:59	Lau_of_DK	Good! Then we're getting somewhere
13:59	Lau_of_DK	But as I understand it, youre delivering the worlds first complete web framework written in a purely functional lisp right? That screams: CLA BANGO!
14:00	durka42	purely?
14:00	ayrnieu	no, not purely.
14:00	Lau_of_DK	ok, impurely
14:00	Lau_of_DK	You kinda missed the point
14:01	Lau_of_DK	Are you specifically going for something greek/outlandish danlarkin?
14:02	danlarkin	Lau_of_DK: no, not at all, just scrolling through wikipedia trying to think of a name
14:02	Lau_of_DK	k
14:05	Lau_of_DK	Man, I really like Clabango, if you dont use it I will :) It'll be my new brand, ClabangoSQL, ClabangoWeb, ClabangoEuler :)
14:05	danlarkin	hahah
14:05	danlarkin	clabango is so bad :)
14:06	Lau_of_DK	Its mine then! Muhahahaahah
14:09	Lau_of_DK	danlarkin: Is the name seriously all thats standing between you and the Github ?
14:09	danlarkin	Lau_of_DK: at this point yup
14:10	Lau_of_DK	Hmm, you reject Barkin' Larkin', you mock Clabango...All thats left is: Funky Web
14:11	danlarkin	haha
14:11	offby1	Poo. It seems that if I want to get anything done in Clojure, I have to learn Java first -- or at least, I have to be familiar with the built-in classes. Can someone recommend a terse cheat-sheet type overview that describes the classes? Specifically I don't know how to append two strings :)
14:12	danlarkin	offby1: (str string1 string2)
14:12	offby1	I have NOT tried Google, since I assume I'll be overwhelmed with 1,000,000 not-quite-relevant hits.
14:12	Chouser	,(str "one" "two")
14:12	clojurebot	"onetwo"
14:12	offby1	danlarkin: thanks
14:12	Chouser	we are your cheatsheet
14:12	danlarkin	offby1: try reading core.clj or browsing http://clojure.org/api
14:12	offby1	but that's just giving me a fish, so my question still stands: any fairly terse how-to-fish web sites for the Java-ignorant?
14:13	offby1	danlarkin: hum, OK.
14:13	offby1	from what I've seen in http://clojure.org/api, though, that's all the stuff that _isn't_ already in java.
14:13	zakwilson	There's the Javadoc for the entire Java standard library.
14:13	Wizardofwestmarc	yeah sun's documentation is actually decent
14:13	Lau_of_DK	danlarkin: we have to sort this out now, start here : http://gangstaname.com/mafia_name.php
14:13	Wizardofwestmarc	and it can even be downloaded for local browsing
14:13	danlarkin	offby1: oh yes, that's not really an answer to your question, just an aside
14:13	zakwilson	It's not exactly a cheat sheet, but there's an index, and Sun has some tutorials that help you figure out where to start.
14:14	durka42	terpsichore -> Lightning Fingers Lou
14:14	offby1	danlarkin: and yet it does answer my immediate question, so it's indeed helpful. Thanks
14:14	danlarkin	Dan Larkin -> Paolo the Greaser
14:15	Lau_of_DK	There you go
14:15	durka42	clabango -> donato milano
14:15	offby1	zakwilson: that's probably what I need. I'll confess my fear, though, which is: say I want to read a file. I'll look up the relevant bits in the javadoc ... and I'll find 867 ways to read files, with nothing to help me decide which to choose. I'm probably just a whiner.
14:15	danlarkin	offby1: (slurp "filename") :)
14:16	Lau_of_DK	danlarkin: Youre American right?
14:16	danlarkin	Lau_of_DK: yessir
14:17	Lau_of_DK	great, that makes it easier
14:17	Lau_of_DK	How about "THE LIBERATOR 10.000 ! Get a free car with your first download and porkchops for life!!!"
14:17	danlarkin	haha oh jeez
14:18	ayrnieu	,(> 10.000 10)
14:18	clojurebot	false
14:18	danlarkin	silly europeans
14:18	Lau_of_DK	You can laugh, but we practically own America now
14:18	offby1	danlarkin: I'm starting to get the sense that there's a lot more in the clojure API itself (as opposed to traditional java classes) than I thought; I'll read that API doc more carefully. Thanks.
14:18	Chouser	,(> 10,100 10)
14:18	clojurebot	false
14:18	Lau_of_DK	Since your little mishap at the stock exchange :)
14:19	Chouser	,(> 20,001 10)
14:19	clojurebot	false
14:19	ayrnieu	,(length '(10,000 10))
14:19	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: length in this context
14:19	durka42	that is (> 20 001 10) isn't it?
14:19	durka42	,(count '(10,000 10))
14:19	clojurebot	3
14:19	Chouser	,(> 20,005 1)
14:19	clojurebot	true
14:19	Chouser	ther
14:19	Chouser	durka42: yeah
14:20	danlarkin	Lau_of_DK: I didn't realize you were chinese :)
14:20	Lau_of_DK	danlarkin: Oh.. that must be because.. im not :)
14:20	danlarkin	well you said you practically own america, that would make you chinese
14:21	Lau_of_DK	EBC gave 800 bill. EUR in loan to the US recently, I think the official letter said "pwned" at the top
14:21	Lau_of_DK	s/EBC/ECB
14:22	zakwilson	And the US govenment is now going to spend it on wasteful projects.
14:22	Lau_of_DK	Of course :)
14:22	zakwilson	But none of that has much to do with Clojure or programming in general.
14:22	zakwilson	Unless they want to pay us to program something cool and utterly useless in Clojure. I'd support that.
14:23	danlarkin	+1 for government funded clojure hacking
14:23	Lau_of_DK	Im just trying to understand the culture zakwilson
14:23	Wizardofwestmarc	just tell them it's java <_<
14:23	danlarkin	is calliope any better than terpsichore?
14:24	Lau_of_DK	What does it mean ?
14:24	danlarkin	another muse
14:24	zakwilson	What culture?
14:24	danlarkin	greek
14:24	Lau_of_DK	The American
14:24	danlarkin	oh, haha sorry
14:25	Lau_of_DK	danlarkin: How about 'calligraphy' ? I means beautiful hand-writing
14:25	zakwilson	Yes, Lau_of_DK, as I was saying... what culture? (I actually mean that in a less insulting way than it may suggest - the thing is there's no single clearly-defined American culture)
14:26	offby1	In the one Java program I've ever written, I used a class called "java.io.FileReader". I thought I could access that in clojure by evaluating (java/io/BufferedReader "some-file-name"), but alas, I get an error: java.lang.Exception: No such namespace: java/io
14:26	offby1	What am I misunderstanding?
14:26	Lau_of_DK	zakwilson:
14:26	Lau_of_DK	Youre not american ?
14:26	danlarkin	zakwilson: oh there is too an American culture
14:27	durka42	offby1: use dots
14:27	Lau_of_DK	The European view of Americans is generally that they're greedy, overweight lazy criminals, who crave big cars and mantions. Chouser being the only exception I know personally :)
14:27	offby1	durka42: huh, OK, I'll try that ...
14:27	durka42	and constructors in clojure end with a dot
14:27	Lau_of_DK	s/mantions/mansions
14:27	durka42	,(java.io.BufferedReader. "file/name")
14:27	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.io.Reader
14:27	zakwilson	I am American. There are so many different subcultures that there are few, if any elements that can reasonably be said to be part of American culture as a whole.
14:27	durka42	java needs more red tape to make a BufferedReader but that's the syntax
14:28	Ariens	why does every? return nil when false instead of false?
14:28	offby1	durka42: but I get the same error that you just got
14:28	durka42	well i guess bufferedreader's constructor needs a reader
14:28	Ariens	,(every #{\space} "dam")
14:28	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: every in this context
14:28	durka42	,(-> "path/to/file" java.io.FileReader. java.io.BufferedReader.)
14:28	zakwilson	The overweight and big cars part is true. And we're a bit off-topic. I'd be happy to continue this discussion in private should anyone wish to.
14:28	clojurebot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.io.FilePermission path/to/file read)
14:28	durka42	also look at slurp
14:28	durka42	or its source
14:28	offby1	thanks
14:28	Ariens	,(every? #{\space} "dam")
14:28	clojurebot	nil
14:29	Ariens	is there a criteria
14:29	Ariens	when to return nil and when to return false?
14:32	durka42	,(and nil false)
14:32	clojurebot	nil
14:32	durka42	,(and false nil)
14:32	clojurebot	false
14:32	durka42	,(and nil nil)
14:32	clojurebot	nil
14:32	durka42	,(and false false)
14:32	clojurebot	false
14:32	durka42	every? uses and internally
14:32	durka42	,(#{\space} "d")
14:32	clojurebot	nil
14:33	durka42	(doc and)
14:33	clojurebot	Evaluates exprs one at a time, from left to right. If a form returns logical false (nil or false), and returns that value and doesn't evaluate any of the other expressions, otherwise it returns the value of the last expr. (and) returns true.; arglists ([] [x] [x & rest])
14:33	durka42	(doc every?)
14:33	clojurebot	Returns true if (pred x) is logical true for every x in coll, else false.; arglists ([pred coll])
14:33	durka42	this could be a bug in every?
14:33	ayrnieu	or in its documentation.
14:34	Ariens	in the API it says it returns false
14:35	Wizardofwestmarc	well, nil and false are interchangeable for boolean purposes, isn't the only time it matters for testing false?
14:35	Wizardofwestmarc	(false? nil)
14:35	Wizardofwestmarc	,(false? nil)
14:35	clojurebot	false
14:36	Ariens	erm if the are interchageable why does (false? evaluate nil to false?
14:37	durka42	(doc false?)
14:37	clojurebot	Returns true if x is the value false, false otherwise.; arglists ([x])
14:37	durka42	(doc nil?)
14:37	clojurebot	Returns true if x is nil, false otherwise.; arglists ([x])
14:38	durka42	,(= (nil? false) (false? nil))
14:38	clojurebot	true
14:38	Ariens	ok so every? has a bug?
14:39	ayrnieu	or its documentation does.
14:39	durka42	well, the doc should say it returns nil or false, yes?
14:39	ayrnieu	or it should return false.
14:39	durka42	instead of just saying "false otherwise"
14:39	durka42	yeah
14:39	Ariens	doc says it returns true or false
14:39	durka42	when does it matter
14:39	ayrnieu	yes, Ariens, we know.
14:39	durka42	,(boolean nil)
14:39	clojurebot	false
14:40	ayrnieu	every?'s functionality differs from its documentation. This is not enough to say that it or its documentation is in error, it is only enough to say that one of them is.
14:40	durka42	yup
14:40	BigTom	offby1: use duckstreams in clojure-contrib
14:40	Ariens	ayrnieu: since it doesn't make much sence to me everty to return nil I think the error is in the implementation
15:11	Lau_of_DK	clojurebot: compojure?
15:11	clojurebot	compojure is a concise web framework inspired by Sinatra
15:11	Lau_of_DK	LINK!?
15:12	Lau_of_DK	clojurebot: compojure is also http://github.com/weavejester/compojure/tree/master
15:12	clojurebot	Roger.
15:12	Lau_of_DK	clojurebot: compojure?
15:12	clojurebot	compojure is http://github.com/weavejester/compojure/tree/master
15:12	Lau_of_DK	I said also...
15:12	Lau_of_DK	hiredman: Your sevant is disobediant
15:13	danlarkin	it's a random choice I believe
15:13	danlarkin	clojurebot: compojure
15:13	clojurebot	compojure is a concise web framework inspired by Sinatra
15:13	Lau_of_DK	oh
15:14	offby1``	If it's random, teach it Russian Roulette!
15:18	Chouser	~roulette
15:18	clojurebot	roulette is click
15:19	Chouser	~roulette
15:19	clojurebot	click
15:19	Chouser	~roulette
15:19	clojurebot	click
15:21	SuttoL	clojurebot: ~roulette
15:21	clojurebot	bang
15:26	turbo24prg	which objects can hold meta informations? too bad strings itself can't
15:27	Chouser	anything than implements IMeta
15:28	turbo24prg	say, i just want to store meta information for strings, what would be the best choice?
15:28	turbo24prg	list, set, ..?
15:29	kotarak	http://clojure.org/metadata
15:30	ayrnieu	,(filter #(try (do (with-meta % {:meta true}) true) (catch ClassCastException _ false)) [{} #{} [] () "" 1 1/0 'etc])
15:30	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
15:30	Chouser	a one-element list seems about right
15:30	ayrnieu	say what?
15:31	ayrnieu	,(filter #(try (do (with-meta % {:meta true}) true) (catch ClassCastException _ false)) [{} #{} [] () "" 1 1/2 'etc])
15:31	clojurebot	Excuse me?
15:31	durka42	no try
15:32	ayrnieu	,(filter #(try (do (with-meta % {:meta true}) true) (catch Exception _ false)) [{} #{} [] () "" 1 1/2 'etc])
15:32	clojurebot	excusez-moi
15:32	durka42	i mean to say, clojurebot does not allow try/catch
15:32	Chouser	,^(with-meta '("hello") {:some :meta-data})
15:32	clojurebot	{:some :meta-data}
15:32	ayrnieu	he should probably say something like "Oh, many apologies, I do not allow try/catch."
15:33	ayrnieu	,(with-meta () {:oops 1})
15:33	clojurebot	()
15:34	ayrnieu	hm, I get a NullPointerException.
15:34	ayrnieu	ah, it's a feature of the lazy branch.
15:52	mofmog	Is programming clojure at a point where it'd be worth it to purchase it?
15:52	technomancy	mofmog: yes
15:52	technomancy	has been for some time
15:54	Chousuke	mofmog: well, you get free upgrades
15:54	mofmog	it's mostly because there aren't that many comprehensive Clojure tutorials
15:54	Wizardofwestmarc	Considering you got all the later versions for free, it's always been worth it.
15:55	mofmog	as far as i can tell, it's either just reading through lots of code or watching the blip.tv videos
15:55	Wizardofwestmarc	or just asking questions here and in the google group. yeah
15:55	technomancy	mofmog: the blip.tv is not very up-to-date IIRC.
15:55	technomancy	it's good to understand motivation, but not good for specifics
15:57	Wizardofwestmarc	last blip video was his talk to the boston lisp group, so yeah, bit out of date
15:58	mofmog	how in depth is PC's STM section?
16:00	Wizardofwestmarc	the concurrency tools (agents, refs, etc) is an entire chapter
16:01	mofmog	ah cool
16:01	Wizardofwestmarc	~20 pages long as of beta 5
16:01	clojurebot	I don't understand.
16:01	technomancy	so I want to curry a function, but I want to provide the second arg. If I use partial, it only works if I provide the first arg.
16:01	mofmog	so if i had tomcat installed on an apache server, it should be a fairly easy task of deploying clojure stuff?
16:01	technomancy	is there another function I can use?
16:01	mofmog	swap?
16:02	mofmog	i dont know if clojure has a swap function but hey
16:02	technomancy	doesn't look like it
16:02	mofmog	so you just want to partially evaluate it? or curry curry it
16:02	danlarkin	technomancy: use #()
16:03	Lau_of_DK	Which webframeworks are actively being developer upon in Clojure atm ? We know danlarkin is almost RC ready with Clabango - Any others?
16:03	Wizardofwestmarc	mofmog: I'd think so but never used tomcat. I know one of the web frameworks already being written in clojure is using Jetty
16:03	technomancy	danlarkin: ok, so there's not a "more functional" approach?
16:03	mofmog	ah, i'm also trying to get jetty installed
16:03	technomancy	whatever that means
16:03	technomancy	mofmog: from what I've heard, it's easiest to deploy on jetty
16:03	danlarkin	technomancy: well not that I can think of :)
16:03	mofmog	i plan on deploying on a university webserver and i might have to fight with the admins to get them to put jetty on
16:03	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: compojure is active... perhaps webjure, but that may be stalled
16:03	technomancy	mofmog: you can bundle jetty w/ your app
16:05	mofmog	oh right
16:05	mofmog	im not to experienced with java for web developing tbqh
16:05	technomancy	danlarkin: I'm looking at the definition of create-repl-server in server_socket.clj from contrib
16:05	technomancy	danlarkin: if create-server accepted a function first, then a port, it's be easier to curry
16:06	technomancy	but changing that seems like a bad idea
16:06	technomancy	interesting how currying makes argument order matter a lot more
16:06	mofmog	technomancy: are you currying or partial evaluating?
16:07	mofmog	curryin takes a function that accepts tuples and returns a function that sorta like a bunch of nested lambdas
16:07	technomancy	mofmog: hrm; maybe my terms are messed up.
16:07	mofmog	partial evaulating is one you "specialize" a function so to say
16:08	mofmog	*when
16:08	mofmog	same sorta general idea nonetheless
16:08	technomancy	mofmog: yeah, searching wikipedia for "partial application" redirects to the Currying page. =)
16:09	mofmog	oh yeah, mix it up in #haskell and they'll hunt you down and your family and your pets
16:09	technomancy	hah
16:10	technomancy	but partial evaluation is what I'm looking at. there's a function that calls create-socket by passing in all the arguments it recieved except one
16:11	technomancy	since there are three different arg lists to support (the same as create-socket) it'd be nice to be able to turn a seven-line function into one line. but the fixed arg is not the first one, so I don't know if you can do it.
16:12	Lau_of_DK	technomancy: compojure looks a little stalled as well
16:12	skogs	hi all: do all collection implement ISeq interface?
16:12	lpetit	hi
16:12	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: the mailing list is extremely active
16:12	technomancy	I could use apply, but it's not quite as nice
16:12	Lau_of_DK	k
16:13	lpetit	Could someone explain me if there is a possibility to browser this channel's history (sorry, I'm a real IRC noob)
16:13	mofmog	hmm
16:13	mofmog	say you have a function foo that takes in arguments x y z and you want to specialize it such that y is always 2
16:13	lisppaste8	technomancy pasted "two create-repl-socket implementations" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75026
16:14	technomancy	are these two implementations equivalent?
16:14	mofmog	(define (special-foo y) (lambda (x z) (foox x y z)))
16:14	ayrnieu	clojurebot: google clojure irc log
16:14	clojurebot	First, out of 3580 results is:
16:14	clojurebot	#clojure - May 16 2008
16:14	clojurebot	http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2008-05-16.html
16:14	mofmog	that's scheme way at least
16:14	mofmog	the you say, (define foo2 (special-foo 2))
16:15	technomancy	mofmog: what do you think of the version I pasted?
16:15	lpetit	thx, I certainly didn't search with the right keywords (I didn't think to use the "log" keyword)
16:16	mofmog	tbqh i dont really know what's going on
16:16	technomancy	The only disadvantage is that the older version is explicit about its argument list, whereas with the short one you have to refer to create-server's arg list to know what's going on
16:16	mofmog	so the conj operator does what?
16:16	mofmog	is it like cons?
16:16	technomancy	mofmog: yeah, but it works for all sequences
16:17	technomancy	not just lists
16:17	mofmog	oh i see
16:17	mofmog	like a general preappend
16:17	mofmog	or append i guess
16:17	ayrnieu	also, it has a more convenient argument order for some uses.
16:17	Chouser	no, conj adds to each collection in its own way
16:17	mofmog	ah
16:17	mofmog	so the difference between defn and def?
16:17	Chouser	conj on a list is exactly like cons, but conj on a map takes a [key val] vector and adds that entry
16:18	mofmog	i've mostly just done scheme
16:18	technomancy	anyway, I think the explicitness of the argument list is enough to justify the verbosity of the original in this case
16:18	technomancy	mofmog: defn is def + implicit fn
16:18	mofmog	ah i see
16:18	skogs	Hi all
16:18	Chouser	(defn foo [x] body) is essentially (def foo (fn [x] body))
16:18	mofmog	oh so it's like () around the name of something you're defining in scheme
16:18	Chouser	...plus extra optional args for docstring, etc.
16:19	mofmog	[port & args]?
16:19	mofmog	is that like .
16:19	mofmog	(define (dosomethin f . y) (map f y))
16:20	technomancy	mofmog: yeah, it's "rest arguments"
16:20	Chouser	,(let [[x y & m] (range 9)] {:x x :y y :m m})
16:20	clojurebot	{:x 0, :y 1, :m (2 3 4 5 6 7 8)}
16:20	technomancy	I never got that far in my scheme impl, but I think it's the same idea.
16:20	ayrnieu	,((fn ([one] one) ([frst & rst] {:first frst :rest rst})) 1)
16:20	clojurebot	1
16:20	ayrnieu	,((fn ([one] one) ([frst & rst] {:first frst :rest rst})) 1 2 3)
16:20	clojurebot	{:first 1, :rest (2 3)}
16:20	technomancy	Chouser: do you think it's a good idea for the server-sockets library to be defined in terms of duck-streams instead of calling Java classes directly?
16:21	ayrnieu	technomancy - it provides the false convenience that a lot of people like -- for a while.
16:21	mofmog	oh i see why they chose to use defn, it lets you do the pattern matching deal
16:21	technomancy	or rather that the socket-repl sample function use it
16:21	ayrnieu	that isn't pattern matching, mofmog; it only dispatches on the number of arguments
16:22	ayrnieu	for other dispatch, use defmulti/defmethod
16:22	Chouser	ayrnieu: why is it false?
16:22	Lau_of_DK	Any good websites regarding compojure?
16:22	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: docs are sketchy; need to ask on the mailing list for most things
16:23	Chouser	plain fn's can have arity overloading too. (fn ([] 1) ([x] x) ([x y] (+ x y)))
16:23	technomancy	ayrnieu: if you're just looking to understand how the library works, the sample provided shouldn't bring in unnecessary baggage.
16:23	skogs	guys, i need some feedback on a switch statement macro
16:23	technomancy	you can fall back to that if you want to, but if you end up needing it odds are you won't need to base your code off the sample
16:25	ayrnieu	skogs - ... OK?
16:25	Chouser	I haven't even figured out how to use all of condp's features yet.
16:26	skogs	can i paste code somewhere?
16:26	Chouser	lisppaste8: url
16:26	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
16:29	lisppaste8	skogs pasted "given" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75027
16:31	skogs	Chouser: did u see the paste
16:31	Chouser	skogs: yep
16:31	skogs	thats an example of the statement
16:31	Chouser	can't use it to see if x is a particular function or regex
16:32	ayrnieu	skogs - please ask a question.
16:32	hiredman	skogs: do you know about condp?
16:32	skogs	no
16:33	hiredman	(doc condp)
16:33	clojurebot	Takes a binary predicate, an expression, and a set of clauses. Each clause can take the form of either: test-expr result-expr test-expr :>> result-fn Note :>> is an ordinary keyword. For each clause, (pred test-expr expr) is evaluated. If it returns logical true, the clause is a match. If a binary clause matches, the result-expr is returned, if a ternary clause matches, its result-fn, which must be a unary function, is ca
16:33	skogs	ok
16:33	skogs	given is more generic switch than just predicate
16:34	Chouser	skogs: you've started trying to write the macro?
16:34	hiredman	,(let [a 1] (condp = a 1 "Hey" 2 "Yo"))
16:34	clojurebot	"Hey"
16:34	skogs	i wrote it
16:34	hiredman	,(let [a 2] (condp = a 1 "Hey" 2 "Yo"))
16:34	clojurebot	"Yo"
16:34	skogs	let me paste it
16:34	ayrnieu	skogs - OK. What is your question about it?
16:37	lisppaste8	skogs pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75028
16:38	skogs	(given x
16:38	skogs	5 "a number"
16:38	skogs	#"c.*e" "matches regex"
16:38	skogs	even? "an even number"
16:38	skogs	:hashkey "key in map x exists"
16:38	skogs	)
16:39	skogs	in given, the case statements can be very generic
16:40	ayrnieu	Chouser, -> is very convenient, and very limited, and the effect is that you can start out with an -> expression and then say, oh, wait, I can't do what I want to do with this. And then you have to rewrite the expression, turning it inside-out (outside-in), adding a lot of parentheses, etc.
16:41	Chouser	ayrnieu: yes
16:41	ayrnieu	Chouser - but I wouldn't call it 'false' because of the straightforwardness of this whole process. Even if you make a small change and then have to throw -> out, you still aren't doing a lot of work.
16:41	Chouser	oh!
16:41	Chouser	oh.
16:42	ayrnieu	Chouser - but with socket-server you say, "aha, I can use this" -- and you're driven down completely the wrong path.
16:42	Chouser	ayrnieu: because of socket-server, or because of duck-streams?
16:42	hiredman	,(-> "huh" (#(println % "?")))
16:42	clojurebot	huh ?
16:47	ayrnieu	Chouser - shrug, I started doing something else as soon as I saw that the callback only received the duck-streams, because "let's pretend that sockets are files!" is a trap I'm familiar with, but server-socket's one-client-per-thread is also problematic.
16:48	technomancy	ayrnieu: well both those assumptions fit great with the vast majority of the simple cases.
16:49	technomancy	if you've got a more complicated need you probably shouldn't be using server-socket to begin with
16:49	technomancy	it's not a lot of code
16:49	Chouser	I've only had positive experiences with duck-streams. I haven't look at server-socket at all yet.
16:50	ayrnieu	skogs, you never asked a question about this 'given' thing.
16:51	skogs	i guess i am not fully ready yet
16:51	skogs	since i have no doc, its hard to explain what it does
16:51	Chouser	we might be able to figure out what it does enough to answer your question, if you ask one.
16:51	skogs	so started creating a github project to put the code and examples
16:52	ayrnieu	oh, do you just want comments on it?
16:52	skogs	yes
16:52	skogs	http://paste.lisp.org/display/75028
16:53	Chouser	skogs: have you had use cases where you actually mix different types of values as conditions in the same 'given' form?
16:53	skogs	yes
16:54	skogs	could match a specific value or a regex
16:54	Chouser	hm, sure, that's plausible.
16:54	skogs	(given "dude" "sam" "its sam" #"rx" "its all these ppl")
16:54	ayrnieu	skogs, you can use a# b# etc in place of prepared gensyms. So (let [x (gensym)] `(let [~x ...] ...)) can just be `(let [x# ...] ...)
16:55	ayrnieu	,[a# b# a#]
16:55	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: a# in this context
16:55	ayrnieu	,`[a# b# a#]
16:55	clojurebot	[a__1414__auto__ b__1415__auto__ a__1414__auto__]
16:55	offby1	technomancy: I didn't know about re-split, but was considering something like that ... it seems a little wrong, though, since it requires that I snarf the whole file into memory up front.
16:55	Lau_of_DK	technomancy: What am I not getting, I clone compojure, I run ant, I java -jar compojure.jar, and it boorks, they removed the old script/run, so hows it supposed to be launched?
16:55	technomancy	offby1: oh sure, you'd want a lazy version?
16:56	offby1	ideally
16:56	skogs	ayrnieu: i tried but needed to use symbol during macro expansion stage
16:57	technomancy	offby1: I haven't done a much with constructing lazy sequences, but I suspect it would involve binding in to (reader "/path/to/file") and using lazy-cons
16:57	technomancy	or perhaps lazy-seq
16:57	ayrnieu	skogs - ifn? shadows map? in #'type; also, #'type could be replaced by dispatching on (class x) instead
16:58	hiredman	the whol thing could be a special predicate passed to condp
16:58	hiredman	whole
16:58	skogs	gotcha.. i will fix
16:59	skogs	hiredman: i just learned condp, will change
16:59	Chouser	offby1: re-split is lazy. you might try using mmap/slurp, which would allow the OS to load the file from disk as re-split demands it
16:59	lisppaste8	technomancy pasted "booting a compojure app for Lau" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75030
16:59	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: that's what I use
17:01	technomancy	Chouser: slick.
17:01	Chouser	re-split is not lazy
17:01	skogs	how do i know if a value is a sequence without causing a runtime error
17:01	hiredman	seq?
17:01	hiredman	(doc seq?)
17:01	clojurebot	Return true if x implements ISeq; arglists ([x])
17:02	Chouser	sorry, I had that wrong. re-partition is lazy and should work well with mmap/slurp
17:02	skogs	but (seq? [3 4]) fails
17:02	hiredman	[] is a vector
17:02	hiredman	,(vector? [])
17:02	clojurebot	true
17:02	technomancy	but /me suspects offby1 is prematurely optimizing
17:02	offby1	probably.
17:02	hiredman	,(seq? (seq []))
17:02	clojurebot	false
17:03	offby1	given that the slurpy way is simpler than the lazy way
17:03	hiredman	grr
17:03	hiredman	,(seq? (seq [1]))
17:03	clojurebot	true
17:03	technomancy	offby1: plus slurp is fun to say
17:03	skogs	oh
17:03	hiredman	,(seq [])
17:03	clojurebot	nil
17:03	skogs	,(seq? 3)
17:03	clojurebot	false
17:03	Lau_of_DK	Seriosly, isnt there anything better than compojure out there? (ie., something that actually runs) Or am I just too dumb to use it?
17:04	technomancy	functions that are onomatopoeic are the best
17:04	hiredman	Lau_of_DK: ring is nice
17:04	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: you can check out my lil app if you want more sample code
17:05	Chouser	skogs: I think you can replace your macro with (defmacro given [& r] `(condp match ~@r nil))
17:05	technomancy	ring looks nice but really low-level
17:05	hiredman	erm
17:05	Lau_of_DK	technomancy: link?
17:05	hiredman	if anything I would say it is higher level
17:05	technomancy	hiredman: well it doesn't contain any functions for HTML generation or session abstractions, right?
17:06	hiredman	last time I used compojure you had to def a servlet then create a list of url mapings
17:06	hiredman	ring you just hand it a function
17:06	skogs	Chouser: wow! I will try that
17:06	hiredman	technomancy: I believe that is correct
17:07	hiredman	but that is confusing featureful and abstraction level
17:07	technomancy	hiredman: compojure handles routing for you, ring hands off the path and lets you write your own routing mechanism
17:08	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: I don't have it on github, but I can upload a tarball
17:08	hiredman	technomancy: have you used ring?
17:08	Lau_of_DK	Thanks, appreciate it
17:09	technomancy	hiredman: I've used rack extensively, which ring is a port of.
17:09	danlarkin	my <yet to be named web project> is based on ring
17:09	technomancy	maybe ring has been extended to be more than a port since I looked at it?
17:10	hiredman	I dunno
17:10	hiredman	I know nothing about rack
17:10	Chouser	skogs: you also might be interested in this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/e750b045d8701f7/b93846216491e4e5
17:12	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: there's some bitrot here; hold on
17:12	technomancy	anyway, what I mean about ring is that ring is designed to build frameworks or APIs on, whereas compojure is designed to build applications on.
17:13	Lau_of_DK	Ring looks good
17:13	Lau_of_DK	I especally like that its not broken out of the box
17:14	hiredman	they could add that to the feature list
17:14	skogs	chouser: there's already lot of thought here
17:15	skogs	i was just translating perl6's smart match and given control statement
17:16	skogs	the tough part is the conditional part dispatch and what the sensible defaults
17:17	Chouser	right, I think condp is already doing what you want for the macro, it's just a matter of the matching function
17:17	skogs	yeah, the matching is where the smarts go i mean
17:18	skogs	and to be universably useful, it should be DWIMish as Perl6 ppl say
17:18	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: http://p.hagelb.org/concourse.tar.gz <= ~5MB because it bundles all the jars
17:18	Lau_of_DK	Thanks big guy
17:19	danlarkin	Oooooo concourse
17:20	Lau_of_DK	danlarkin: You seem to energetic, did you just drink a bottle of hansard?
17:20	danlarkin	Lau_of_DK: hahaah
17:20	danlarkin	it's a good name, alright?!
17:21	Lau_of_DK	Yea, I like my Budweiser and my Hansard, they go well together
17:21	Lau_of_DK	But when you mix german sausages and Hansard.. then youre in for some stomach trouble
17:22	danlarkin	pahhh
17:22	danlarkin	I did just figure out how to implement conditionals in my templating language
17:22	danlarkin	maybe that has made me cheery
17:23	Lau_of_DK	:)
17:23	Lau_of_DK	Thats nice
17:24	Lau_of_DK	Ring doesnt seem too big in the template department
17:25	danlarkin	ring is just a layer between your app and the http spec
17:26	danlarkin	gasp!
17:26	danlarkin	it's sentient!
17:27	Lau_of_DK	(doc sentient)
17:27	Lau_of_DK	I really miss RSchulz, everytime he wrote something in the chan, I had to reach for my dictionary
17:27	Lau_of_DK	That was nice
17:27	durka42	(defn sentient [] (/ 1 0)) ; singularity
17:30	hiredman	(doc test)
17:30	clojurebot	test [v] finds fn at key :test in var metadata and calls it, presuming failure will throw exception; arglists ([v])
17:34	danlarkin	yeah he was a character
17:40	ayrnieu	always with the NullPointerExceptions.
18:16	technomancy	sets aren't ordered, are they?
18:17	Wizardofwestmarc	maybe I'm insane but aren't there hashed AND ordered sets?
18:17	Wizardofwestmarc	just like there's hash-map and sorted-map
18:18	technomancy	that sounds right
18:18	technomancy	but the one you get from #{"a" "b" "c"} is hashed?
18:19	Wizardofwestmarc	yeah
18:20	Wizardofwestmarc	,(sorted-set :a :b :c)
18:20	clojurebot	#{:a :b :c}
18:21	technomancy	,(= (sorted-set :a :b :c) #{:a :b :c})
18:21	clojurebot	true
18:21	technomancy	,(= (hash-set :a :b :c) #{:a :b :c})
18:21	clojurebot	true
18:21	technomancy	interesting
18:22	Wizardofwestmarc	yeah, #{} is just the reader macro for hash-set
18:23	forest	there are both PersistentHashSet and PersistentTreeSet in clojure sources, that is sorted and unsorted
18:23	Wizardofwestmarc	huh, I hadn't noticed treeset
19:24	te	'lo all
19:32	durka42	hi te
19:33	ayrnieu	since I criticized server-socket earlier: http://github.com/ayrnieu/clj-actors/tree/master
19:38	bakkdoor	hi
19:39	te	I'm trying to figure out Clojure. This is my first introduction to lisp, java, etc.
19:39	te	This is a totally different way of programming.
19:40	durka42	having fun so far?
19:41	forest	clojure sources are so poorely documented
19:42	ayrnieu	they aren't a work of Literate Java. What question do you have?
19:43	te	durka42: Yes I suppose
19:43	te	durka42: I must say I'm getting a little anxious
19:44	durka42	te, about what
19:45	te	I want to start /doing stuff/, but understanding the fundmanetal structure of how things fit together seems to be a large undertaking
19:45	te	I'd like to write a script to open a file, take the user input and add it to the file on a new line, and then close the file
19:45	cemerick	te: IMO, clojure is very well documented, though the delivery format and arrangement is very different from classic java project styles. I'll definitely grant that the style difference takes a little getting used ot
19:45	te	cemerick: forest was critiquing the docs, not me
19:46	te	cemerick: however, that is helpful advice, thanks
19:46	cemerick	te: oooh, sorry, my bad :-)
19:46	durka42	cemerick: mark volkmann would beg to differ
19:46	forest	just noticed, probably we are not supposed to look into sources
19:46	ayrnieu	te - so, what problems do you have with that?
19:47	te	ayrnieu: truthfully i just dont know where to start -- im not very comfortable i guess
19:47	ayrnieu	forest - I often dig through them.
19:47	cemerick	durka42: mark being who? I'm bad with names of people I don't talk with regularly :-\|
19:48	ayrnieu	forest, don't confuse newbie source where every line is (add 1 2) ;; ADD TWO NUMBERS, RETURNING THE SUM with normal source that assumes a measure of language and system familiarity by the reader
19:48	te	ayrnieu: do you think you could show me some code and then i could ask questions about it?
19:48	durka42	te: might want to look at clojure.contrib.duck-streams, with-open
19:48	te	ayrnieu: or maybe you could walk me through it?
19:48	te	durka42: i can look into that
19:48	durka42	cemerick: there was a big thread on the mailing list about clojure being poorly documented in general
19:49	ayrnieu	te - well, can you do the 'write a script' part? Can you write a script that accepts a single argument and complains if it gets zero ore more than one arguments?
19:50	te	ayrnieu: probably, but id need to look around a bit
19:50	durka42	SimonAdameit: have you downloaded clojure and contrib?
19:50	ayrnieu	Simon - I just use emacs and vim, a clj script, some ~/.zshrc stuff to populate CLASSPATH
19:50	forest	ayrnieu: i mean the java sources, not clojure ones
19:50	durka42	are you trying to use emacs, vim, or neither?
19:51	SimonAdameit	exactly this CLASSPATH stuff is killing me..
19:51	durka42	whAT
19:51	te	ayrnieu: (defn myfunc [myval])
19:51	durka42	oops
19:51	cemerick	durka42: ah, that one, right. Eh, I just let stuff like that float by. I try not to convince people of things that they seem to have already made up their minds about.
19:51	durka42	what's your command to run java
19:51	stimuli	hi
19:52	SimonAdameit	I tried to use netbeans + enclojure and the REPL wont work, because of some classpath or whatever issue. Now I am trying emacs and slime, and I dont have swank in my classpath it says
19:52	ayrnieu	te - sorry, what about that myfunc ?
19:52	SimonAdameit	clojure works fine, just invoking java -jar clojure.jar
19:52	te	ayrnieu: that takes an input value, thats the script part
19:52	te	ayrnieu: no?
19:52	durka42	i installed enclojure and netbeans decided not to start anymore... haven't tried to fix it yet
19:53	stimuli	has anyone here seen pmap go wonky ?
19:53	durka42	wonky?
19:53	ayrnieu	te - well, I was thinking of something with #! /usr/bin/env clj , command-line-args , etc.
19:53	stimuli	I have a prog w/ a bunch of pmaps and when I use maps is works, but blows up if I use pmap
19:53	stimuli	I'm not doing any other concurrent stuff
19:54	te	ayrnieu: ah okay -- well i dont have the binary i dont thinkg
19:55	ayrnieu	te - the binary?
19:55	te	i dont have a clj
19:55	te	in my PATH
19:55	te	i have a clojure.jar becase i compiled from source
19:56	ayrnieu	te - get it from here: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Clojure_Programming/Getting_Started
19:56	ayrnieu	I especially recommend the rlwrap setup
19:57	stimuli	so anyway, I figure that other than the multiple cpu thing .. pmap should ahve the same semantics as map
19:57	stimuli	so I suppose there is a bug somewhere
19:58	ayrnieu	stimuli - I suppose so. You could copy src/clj/clojure/core.clj:pmap into your program and add debugging hooks into it -- to track agents, for instance, and see if they get errors.
19:58	stimuli	hmmm
19:59	stimuli	sounds like a plan
19:59	stimuli	the only "debugging hooks" i've figured out so far are print statements, though :)
20:00	ayrnieu	(def pmap-agents (ref nil)) (defn rem [x] (dosync (commute pmap-agents conj x)))
20:00	Raynes	http://www.debloggers.de/wp-content/uploads/bilder/getstringfromobject.jpg
20:00	ayrnieu	well, rem is already a function.
20:01	durka42	print statements are good :)
20:01	durka42	you can replace any x with (doto x prn)
20:01	durka42	,(+ 3 (doto 4 prn))
20:01	clojurebot	7
20:01	clojurebot	4
20:01	ayrnieu	ooh, nice.
20:01	stimuli	ah ... so add all the agents to a ref and watch them ?
20:02	ayrnieu	or you could just (filter agent-errors pmap-agents) afterwards
20:02	stimuli	then use the "get-agent-errors" thingy
20:04	stimuli	I'll try that and report back
20:04	ayrnieu	(def OMG-count (ref 0)) (defmacro OMG [expr] `(doto ~expr (println (dosync (alter OMG-count inc)))))
20:04	ayrnieu	(def OMG-count (ref 0)) (defmacro OMG [expr] `(doto ~expr (println ~(dosync (alter OMG-count inc))))) ;; rather
20:05	durka42	you want the dosync evaluated at compile time?
20:06	ayrnieu	yes. (def agent-hell [] ... (OMG x) ... (OMG y)) => (def agent-hell [] ... (doto x (println 1)) ... (doto y (println 2)))
20:06	durka42	ah good
20:06	ayrnieu	I feel that the name is the best part of this.
20:06	durka42	:p
20:17	offby1	So I'm in the REPL, and I'd like to use "re-split". Just typing "re-split RET" yields, not surprisingly, "java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: re-split ...". However I can't figure out how to get it "imported". What should I do?
20:17	offby1	(import 'clojure.contrib.str-utils) ain't it ... tried various combinations ...
20:18	durka42	use, not import
20:18	durka42	or require
20:18	durka42	import is for java classes
20:22	SimonAdameit	Is anyone using enclojure here?
20:23	SimonAdameit	How can I get anything into the repl? When I do (def foobar 234) in the file and compile, change REPL namespace to file namespace type foobar into the REPL, I get an error, symbol foobar not found.
20:29	stimuli	so I got this agent error: (def pmap-agents (ref nil)) (defn rem [x] (dosync (commute pmap-agents conj x)))
20:29	stimuli	oops
20:30	stimuli	I mean this : java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.LazyCons cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Agent (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
20:30	stimuli	from inside of pmap
20:31	stimuli	oh wait ....
20:31	stimuli	I mean I got this: ava.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: nth not supported on this type: Keyword>)
20:31	stimuli	I'm learning as I got
20:31	stimuli	go
20:31	Chouser	,(nth :foo 5)
20:31	clojurebot	java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: nth not supported on this type: Keyword
20:31	stimuli	but everything works fine if I use a normal map
20:31	stimuli	and I get the correct results
20:49	skogs	how to get the class/interface hierarchy of a clojure type like vector
20:50	skogs	(class [3 4]) only tells me class but i'd like to all interfaces it defines as well
20:50	stimuli	I don't think you can nest pmaps safely
20:51	stimuli	which means I'll have to write my own parallization code
20:51	stimuli	oh well
20:52	ayrnieu	,(-> [3 4] class ancestors)
20:52	clojurebot	#{java.util.Collection java.lang.Object clojure.lang.IObj java.lang.Iterable clojure.lang.AFn java.lang.Runnable clojure.lang.Streamable clojure.lang.IFn clojure.lang.IMeta java.util.List java.util.concurrent.Callable clojure.lang.Obj clojure.lang.Sequential clojure.lang.APersistentVector java.io.Serializable java.util.RandomAccess clojure.lang.Associative clojure.lang.IPersistentStack clojure.lang.IPersistentCollection c
20:53	stimuli	does the bot let us run arbitrary code ?
20:53	stimuli	isn't that sort of ... dangerous
20:54	skogs	ayrnieu: thanks! btw now i also know how to use -> op
20:54	ayrnieu	stimuli - it's the point of having a bot.
20:56	ayrnieu	obviously there are measures you should take.
20:56	offby1	stimuli: I know a guy who specialized in crashing bots
20:57	offby1	s/specialized/specializes/
20:57	offby1	he sho' 'nuff crashed mine a lot
20:57	ayrnieu	are you talking about me?
20:57	offby1	nope
20:57	offby1	I'm talking about "eli" in #scheme
20:59	stimuli	I mean .. can I call out to java ?
21:00	ayrnieu	stimuli - yes, although there's a security model in place.
21:00	stimuli	,(.. Runtime getRuntime availableProcessors)
21:00	clojurebot	1
21:00	stimuli	wow
21:01	stimuli	that requires a certain level of trust
21:01	stimuli	I hope he's running in a chroot or something
21:01	ayrnieu	hiredman isn't completely reckless. I wouldn't worry too much about a bot running under OpenBSD systrace and some quotas.
21:01	stimuli	anywho ... my pmaps call a bunch of functions who themselves call a bunch of pmaps
21:02	stimuli	so that means I'm sending agent messages inside another agent
21:02	stimuli	I wonder if that is what is breaking things
21:02	ayrnieu	the messages only get sent after the function on that agent returns.
21:02	ayrnieu	so that could very well be the problem.
21:03	stimuli	YES!
21:03	ayrnieu	wait, that's definitely true of dosync. Let me check.
21:03	stimuli	I see it now
21:03	stimuli	rats !
21:03	stimuli	and pmap looked so easy
21:03	stimuli	I thought clojure was supposed to make concurrency utterly easy (j/k) :)
21:04	stimuli	now I have to think
21:04	ayrnieu	(pragma :sprinkle-on-parallelism) is always tricky :-)
21:04	stimuli	yes
21:04	stimuli	on the other hand I figured out some really tricky graph algorithm code that seems to be working
21:05	ayrnieu	try using send-off instead.
21:05	stimuli	well, I want to keep things in a thread pool
21:06	ayrnieu	send-off also uses a thread pool, just an expandable one.
21:06	stimuli	I'll figure something out .. but not tonight
21:06	ayrnieu	(better control over thread pools is an agent feature that I'd like, too)
21:06	stimuli	I think I'd still have the same "wait until the outer agent finishes before the inner agent returns" problem
21:07	stimuli	I mean ... I don't think the semantics changes w/ send-off
21:07	stimuli	regarding waiting
21:07	ayrnieu	I'm not sure that that's true, sorry.
21:07	stimuli	hmmm
21:07	ayrnieu	but 'send' has a potentially very small thread pool (it's based on the number of processors) that does not expand
21:08	ayrnieu	so you could have this problem even if I'm wrong about delayed sends.
21:08	stimuli	from the website: # If during the function execution any other dispatches are made (directly or indirectly), they will be held until after the state of the Agent has been changed.
21:08	stimuli	I think it is the same for send off
21:09	stimuli	of course ... it will take me 30 seconds to test .. be right back
21:09	ayrnieu	ah, OK.
21:09	ayrnieu	geez, that's #5 on that list. It's too early for me to read this poorly :-/
21:09	stimuli	same behavior
21:10	stimuli	I can just create a java ModuleExecutor
21:10	stimuli	and do it myself
21:10	stimuli	Clojure is still > Java
21:10	stimuli	I wonder though .. if that risks deadlock
21:11	stimuli	there is a reason the sends are delayed
21:11	stimuli	it could deadlock
21:11	stimuli	hmmm
21:12	stimuli	I'm going to sleep for a while .. thanks for the help .. you guys saved me hours
21:40	skogs	is there a function that tells me if given item is in the collection?
21:41	ayrnieu	,(.contains "hello" "e")
21:41	clojurebot	true
21:41	skogs	would this work on all collections?
21:41	Chouser	skogs: it's best to use a map or set if you're going to do this kind of lookup
21:42	Chouser	,(let [s '#{a b c d}] (s 'c))
21:42	clojurebot	c
21:42	Chouser	,(let [s '#{a b c d}] (s 'e))
21:42	clojurebot	nil
21:42	skogs	i'm doing a type based dispatch, hence a really general method
21:43	ayrnieu	use defmulti, then
21:43	Chouser	other kinds of collections would require a linear search through the whole thing -- not recommended.
21:44	ayrnieu	http://paste.lisp.org/display/74647 - defmulti examples.
21:44	skogs	this is in a defmulti dispatch, needed for resolving hierarchies
21:45	skogs	chouser: given an item and a possible collection, need to find if item exists in the collection
21:45	Chouser	"possible collection"?
21:46	Chouser	if the collection is a map, you want to look up by key or by value?
21:46	skogs	isa? IPersistentCollection i mean
21:46	skogs	map is a special case, dealt with it in earlier defmethod
21:48	Chouser	,(some #{'b} '[a b c d])
21:48	clojurebot	b
21:48	Chouser	,(some #{'e} '[a b c d])
21:48	clojurebot	nil
21:51	skogs	chouser: is ur idiom more generic than using .contains
21:52	ayrnieu	it's different.
21:52	ayrnieu	,(some #{'a 'b} '[a x c d])
21:52	clojurebot	a
21:52	ayrnieu	,[(.contains "hello" "el") (some #{\e} "hello")]
21:52	clojurebot	[true \e]
21:53	skogs	i just need the truth value
21:54	skogs	.contains seems cleaner, but uses java method
21:54	ayrnieu	ugh.
21:54	skogs	how do i know which class/iface implemented .contains
21:57	Chouser	java.util.Collection
21:59	skogs	is there a one-liner for method lookup
22:00	ayrnieu	,(sort (map #(-> % .getName symbol) (.getMethods (class ""))))
22:00	clojurebot	(charAt codePointAt codePointBefore codePointCount compareTo compareTo compareToIgnoreCase concat contains contentEquals contentEquals copyValueOf copyValueOf endsWith equals equalsIgnoreCase format format getBytes getBytes getBytes getBytes getChars getClass hashCode indexOf indexOf indexOf indexOf intern isEmpty lastIndexOf lastIndexOf lastIndexOf lastIndexOf length matches notify notifyAll offsetByCodePoints regionMatc
22:01	Chouser	I use clojure.contrib.repl-utils/show to do that sort of thing
22:01	ayrnieu	,(filter #(.contains % "in") (map #(.getName %) (.getMethods (class ""))))
22:01	clojurebot	("indexOf" "indexOf" "indexOf" "indexOf" "toString" "codePointAt" "codePointBefore" "codePointCount" "offsetByCodePoints" "substring" "substring" "contains" "intern")
22:01	ayrnieu	I still haven't explored clojure.contrib
22:02	skogs	cool!
22:02	ayrnieu	this is an example in Programming Clojure
22:02	Chouser	it's probably a bit intimidating at this point. could use a nice summary of the libs I suppose
22:05	Raynes	,(doc get)
22:05	clojurebot	"([map key] [map key not-found]); Returns the value mapped to key, not-found or nil if key not present."
22:05	Raynes	Neat.
22:06	Chouser	Raynes: clojurebot or get?
22:07	Raynes	Chouser: get
22:07	Raynes	Well, both, but get was the source of the "Neat".
22:08	Chouser	yep. But 'get' is hardly every used.
22:08	Chouser	,(:a {:a 1 :b 2})
22:08	clojurebot	1
22:08	Raynes	I'm easily amused. I love functional programming.
22:08	Chouser	,(:c {:a 1 :b 2} :not-found)
22:08	clojurebot	:not-found
22:09	Chouser	,({:a 1 :b 2} :c :not-found)
22:09	clojurebot	:not-found
22:09	Chouser	,({:a 1 :b 2} :b :not-found)
22:09	clojurebot	2
22:09	Chouser	no need to use 'get'
22:10	ayrnieu	,(let [x (ref {1 2})] (dosync (alter x get 1)) @x)
22:10	clojurebot	2
22:10	skogs	,(.contains :a {:a 3})
22:10	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: contains for class clojure.lang.Keyword
22:10	ayrnieu	,(.contains {:a 3} :a)
22:10	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: contains for class clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap
22:10	ayrnieu	that's the right order, even if it doesn't work.
22:11	skogs	,(some #{:a} {:a 3})
22:11	clojurebot	nil
22:11	ayrnieu	,({:a 3} :a)
22:11	clojurebot	3
22:11	ozy`	(fetch-url "http://blog.fogus.me/2009/01/15/on-lisp-clojure-prolog-pt-1/") ;; hooray for literate programming
22:11	Chouser	skogs: you said maps were handled separatly/
22:12	Raynes	Chouser: Stu used it in his book.
22:12	skogs	i'm wondering if i could cheat ;(
22:12	skogs	would keys function work on a java map?
22:13	Chouser	skogs: maps implement java.util.Map not java.util.Collection
22:13	skogs	ic
22:14	ayrnieu	it's possible to be so general that your brains fall out.
22:14	Chouser	so you get .containsKey and .containsValue instead
22:15	skogs	,(.containsKey {:a 3} :a)
22:15	clojurebot	true
22:16	Chouser	,(some #{[:b 2]} {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3})
22:16	clojurebot	[:b 2]
22:21	ozy`	,(atom 1)
22:21	clojurebot	#<Atom@1542cdc: 1>
22:21	ozy`	huh
22:21	ayrnieu	what do you huh about?
22:24	ozy`	,(atom 'desu)
22:24	clojurebot	#<Atom@4c8422: desu>
22:24	ozy`	nothin'
22:25	ayrnieu	you're not going through The Little Schemer, are you?
22:25	ozy`	nope
22:25	Chouser	http://code.google.com/p/clojure/issues/detail?id=56
22:27	ayrnieu	putting your crazy patches into clojurebot so that they can seep insiduously into the channel, eh?
22:28	Chouser	heh, um, what?
22:28	ayrnieu	,(-> 1 inc (+ 1 _))
22:28	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: _ in this context
22:28	Chouser	that's already in. I wondered if ozy` was noting the new(ish) printing behavior of atoms
22:28	ozy`	,'desu
22:28	clojurebot	desu
22:29	ozy`	Chouser: (atom) returns a new, unique symbol, right?
22:29	ayrnieu	no, that's (gensym); atams are simpler refs.
22:29	ozy`	all right
22:29	ozy`	see
22:29	ayrnieu	also, atoms. I guess I've been getting the new revisions but not actually building them...
22:29	Chouser	no, it returns an atomic reference http://clojure.org/atom
22:29	ozy`	I don't actually know clojure.
22:30	ozy`	I just hang out here.
22:30	Chouser	http://clojure.org/atoms
22:30	Chouser	heh
22:31	skogs	wow, nasty surprise with defmethod ordering
22:31	ozy`	,(gensym)
22:31	clojurebot	G__1646
22:32	ayrnieu	Chouser - I don't see the new behavior.
22:32	skogs	i guess they r not ordered as they r written in source
22:32	ayrnieu	clojurebot: latest
22:32	clojurebot	latest is 1252
22:32	Chouser	skogs: I don't think the order matters
22:32	ayrnieu	yeah, nothing.
22:32	skogs	unless multiple method match the args
22:33	ayrnieu	skogs - that's an advantage, actually; it lets http://github.com/ayrnieu/clj-actors/blob/edab5efb3626e00901e24ca4b0b538776c341e61/src/act/simple_server.clj work
22:33	Chouser	then it should use the inheritence tree
22:33	ayrnieu	(github, why do you have horrible URLs?)
22:34	ayrnieu	that sets up default methods that can be overriden later on.
22:37	lisppaste8	skogs pasted "smart match" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75037
22:38	skogs	just posted the smart match using defmulti, plz comment
22:40	Chouser	you can use import so you don't need to repeat package names each time you mention a class
22:43	skogs	aha
22:43	skogs	user=> (match 3 [3 4])
22:43	skogs	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Multiple methods match dispatch value: [java.lang.Integer clojure.lang.LazilyPersistentVector] -> [java.lang.Object java.util.Collection] and [java.lang.Object clojure.lang.IFn], and neither is preferred (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
22:45	ayrnieu	,(doc prefer-method)
22:45	clojurebot	"([multifn dispatch-val-x dispatch-val-y]); Causes the multimethod to prefer matches of dispatch-val-x over dispatch-val-y when there is a conflict"
22:45	ayrnieu	,(doc prefers)
22:45	clojurebot	"([multifn]); Given a multimethod, returns a map of preferred value -> set of other values"
22:46	ayrnieu	but even if biordered arguments is more smart matchy, perl6 ~~y, it's odd in Clojure.
22:47	skogs	i'm planning on using this as a switch macro
22:48	skogs	condp with this smart-matcher as predicate => define a new macro called: given
22:48	Chouser	,(:foo #{:foo}) (#{:foo} :foo)
22:48	clojurebot	:foo
22:49	ayrnieu	Chouser, that doesn't demonstrate biordered arguments.
22:49	Chouser	ok, then I don't know what you mean. :-)
22:50	ayrnieu	(f a b) and (f b a) having the same semantics. iFn? true keys is something different.
22:50	Chouser	oh, I see.
22:50	Chouser	(+ 1 2) (+ 2 1) ?
22:51	ayrnieu	,[(- 1 2) (- 2 1)]
22:51	clojurebot	[-1 1]
22:51	Chouser	some clojure functions care about the order of their args, others don't.
22:51	ayrnieu	some don't care, pretty much everything does.
22:51	skogs	(given "chouser" #"c.r" "yes") is same as (given #"c.r" "chouser" yes")
22:52	ayrnieu	ah, OK.
22:53	skogs	its basically perl6's switch statement
22:55	skogs	(given x nil? "nil" even? "even number" #(= 3 %) "its 3")
22:56	Chouser	ruby has a similarly powerful case statement, using a === operator, but it doesn't let you reverse regex and string
22:56	skogs	oh
22:57	Chouser	just fyi. :-)
22:57	Chouser	case "foo" when /f/; 1 end ==> 1
22:57	Chouser	case /f/ when "foo"; 1 end ==> nil
22:58	skogs	given works biorder in DWIMish way ala perl6 or perl5's switch.pm
22:59	Chouser	I can certainly imagine having a string and wanting to test several regexs against it.
23:00	Chouser	which as far as I can tell couldn't be done with ruby's "case"
23:01	skogs	with clojure, we r the same footing as the lang developer
23:01	skogs	i love macros
23:03	Chouser	yeah, me too
23:04	Chouser	Rich won't let us have reader macros, though.
23:05	skogs	i just started on macros, so readers ma be too much power
23:05	Chouser	:-)
23:07	stimuli	I doubt I'll ever miss reader macros
23:07	stimuli	and it stops people who try to be clever
23:07	dreish	You could always write your own reader.
23:07	stimuli	yeah
23:07	Chouser	you can fork clojure and add whatever you want.
23:08	stimuli	well yeah
23:08	Chouser	...so unsatisfying.
23:09	ayrnieu	the Tower of Babel solution to design complaints.
23:10	stimuli	well .. you'll never satisfy everyone ... and for folks who can only bitch and bitch about things they don't like "fork and do it yourself" is ultimately the only answer
23:11	stimuli	they almost never do it, of course
23:11	Chouser	I've not seen a whole lot of that kind of complaining about Clojure, though.
23:11	stimuli	well .... it helps that it is so awesome ! :)
23:11	Chouser	heh. yeah.
23:12	ayrnieu	stimuli, I don't mean that rich has taken the Tower of Babel approach to complaints, but that "fork it and change it incompatibly with everyone else" is the Tower of Babel solution to one's own design complaint.
23:13	Chouser	ayrnieu: that's how I understood your statement.
23:13	stimuli	yeah
23:13	stimuli	I was speaking in generalities
23:14	stimuli	I haven't been using Clojure long enough to really have any opinion about how Rich does things
23:14	ayrnieu	oh, OK. Well, it's good that they almost never do this, because they'd be impoverishing themselves.
23:14	Chouser	well, technically I guess I do have my own running fork of clojure.
23:15	Chouser	git-svn makes this easy to do.
23:15	stimuli	you could call it an "experimental branch"
23:16	Chouser	I've only got patches in there that I reasonably expect Rich to take someday, and none of them create breaking changes.