#clojure – 2008-07-29

2008-07-29

00:54	Chouser	I just added gen-interface to clojure-contrib.
00:54	Chouser	It's undocumented, weakly tested, and the API will probably change. But I believe it is functionally complete.
00:55	Chouser	The filename and namespace may not even be correct -- I haven't quite figured out the new contrib layout.
00:57	Chouser	perhaps make-array could take either an integer or a seq. integer would be current behavior, seq would use the given member type, but populate it with the contents of the seq like into-array does.
01:11	jykrd	I don't see why this should be so hard. I'm trying to add clojure support to scite, right? But I'm using the plain lisp lexer that comes with scite.. I just want scite to associate all my *.clj files with the clj shell script (which runs clojure). But I can't get it to work.
01:12	jykrd	file.patterns.clj=*.clj
01:12	jykrd	filter.clj=clj (clj)\|*.clj\|
01:12	jykrd	lexer.$(file.patterns.clj)=lisp
01:12	jykrd	command.go.$(file.pattern.clj)=/home/john/bin/clj $(FilePath)
01:13	jykrd	those four lines, in the lisp.properties file, should do the trick, as far as I can tell
01:14	jykrd	that, and I added clj to a few places in the SciTEGlobal.properties file
01:24	jykrd	oh, wait, I think I did it
01:26	jykrd	um, yes.. frick ya
01:30	jykrd	no to build a keyword list.
01:32	jykrd	Which basically means any reserved word?
01:32	jykrd	ie, don't use the Clojure sense: Keywords are like symbols, except: They can and must begin with a colon, e.g. :fred. They cannot contain '.' or name classes.
01:54	jykrd	omg the keyword list is long.. I'm just putting in the entire api
02:12	jykrd	dude, that was a lot of typing
02:16	mebaran151	well jykrd those aren't really keywords per se
02:16	mebaran151	much closer to a stdlib
02:21	jykrd	right, and I guess "Special forms" would be closer to keywords?
02:21	jykrd	but where do I draw the line?
02:21	jykrd	well, I suppose some can be over-riden and others not, right?
02:26	jykrd	but what's better, "def" and "first" show up as different colors or both as blue?
02:27	jykrd	or def and map
02:30	hoeck	jykrd: are you talking about editor highliting?
02:30	jykrd	yea, scite, the editor
02:31	hoeck	jykrd: ahh, i see
02:31	jykrd	It's working pretty well actually
02:31	jykrd	it's using the lisp lexer
02:32	jykrd	I've added all the clojure words in there
02:32	jykrd	I go to tools -> go, and it executes into a second window pane
02:33	jykrd	got the pretty highlights going and everything.
02:33	jykrd	now, here's the really interesting part:
02:33	hoeck	emacs lisp modes are highlighting every symbol matching ^\(def.*
02:34	jykrd	does that not cover everything in the api?
02:35	jykrd	oh well, the keyword list can be tweaked... here's the interesting thing:
02:36	hoeck	actually not, only standard "if", "let", ":keywords" and strings
02:36	jykrd	I'm looking at a tutorial right now to integrate java ide features into scite: java classes highlighting, calltips, and auto completion
02:37	jykrd	so, what I'm going to do is work through this tutorial, but use it on my clj extensions to scite, rather than java
02:37	jykrd	and see what kind of java integration I can mingle in with the clojure
02:38	jykrd	http://www.burgaud.com/scite-java-api/
02:39	jykrd	start typing StringB.. and it lists options for StringBuffer, StringBufferInputString, StringBuilder, etc
02:39	jykrd	does emacs do that?
02:39	jykrd	;)
02:39	jykrd	well, you could probably make it do that
02:41	hoeck	yeah, there is some kind of keyword-completion
02:41	jykrd	yea, but can you hook in the entire java api?
02:41	jykrd	plus, java help docs?
02:42	hoeck	iirc you have to generate tags from the source files
02:44	hoeck	but i prefer the dynamic abbreviation mode, where the editor tries to complete a given string by searching the open files for matches
02:51	hoeck	i actually would like to have a kind of a hybrid environment, where you use the editor for code input and some self-hosting clojure-routines for browsing, inspection, profiling ..
02:52	jykrd	part if this tutorial provides 'tooltips' which give pop up tips showing you what types of parameters a give method accepts. Like, type buffer.append( and a tooltip pops up saying "append(String)". You configure that functionality in a scite config file with this:
02:52	jykrd	calltip.java.word.characters=._$(word.chars.cxx) calltip.java.parameters.start=( calltip.java.parameters.start=) calltip.java.parameters.separators=.
02:52	jykrd	How could I translate that into clojure?
02:53	jykrd	calltip.java.parameters.start=.*
02:53	jykrd	(with a space at the end)
02:55	hoeck	the problem is, in clojure you (normally) type the method before the class
02:55	hoeck	as in (.method class)
02:55	jykrd	I thought it was (.method param)
02:55	hoeck	i mean object
02:56	jykrd	right, param could be object, right?
02:56	jykrd	but it's the parameter
02:56	hoeck	(.method object params...)
02:56	jykrd	oh
02:57	jykrd	yea
02:57	hoeck	yes, so the 'intellisense' doesn't know the methods to complete
02:57	jykrd	looking at that now...
02:58	hoeck	completing ctors would work
02:58	jykrd	so maybe (02:52:35 AM) jykrd: calltip.java.parameters.start=.word word
02:59	hoeck	at least for java interop
03:00	jykrd	if scite is using some kind of regex resolution there, and it has some way to express "dot word word $"
05:46	Lau_of_DK	Chouser : You here?
06:01	Lau_of_DK	Anybody here comfortable working with XML in Clojure ?
06:06	Lau_of_DK	user=> (class (first (xml-> x :problem)))
06:07	Lau_of_DK	class clojure.lang.LazilyPersistentVector
06:07	Lau_of_DK	user=> (class (xml-> x :problem [:title "Broken room"]))
06:07	Lau_of_DK	class clojure.lang.PersistentList
06:07	Lau_of_DK	Why arent these the same class-type, anybody know?
06:16	hoeck	Lau_of_DK: you are using "first" in the first example
06:17	hoeck	where can i find the "xml->" function?
06:27	Lau_of_DK	in xml.clj in clojure.jar
06:28	Lau_of_DK	sorry Im mistaken, its in Chousers' zip-filter in user-contrib
06:28	Lau_of_DK	http://clojure-contrib.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/clojure-contrib/trunk/zip-filter.clj?revision=90&view=markup
06:31	Lau_of_DK	But hoeck, you actually clued me in already, I just wrapped the second statement in (first ..) and then it was cast to a LPV - Thanks a lot! :)
06:47	hoeck	Lau_of_DK: np :)
06:48	Lau_of_DK	But hoeck, do you know why (first) casts as it does? It seems weird that the output type is unpredictable (to me anyway) when it can cause meltdowns later in the program
06:51	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: what do you mean?
06:54	Lau_of_DK	user=> (class (first (xml-> x :problem)))
06:54	Lau_of_DK	class clojure.lang.LazilyPersistentVector
06:54	Lau_of_DK	user=> (class (xml-> x :problem [:title "Broken room"]))
06:54	Lau_of_DK	class clojure.lang.PersistentList
06:55	Lau_of_DK	rhickey : this to me was a bit unpredictable behavior. It wasnt clear to me (it isnt) why it picked list for 1, and vector for another, and why zip/root and all those related functions crashed it it was not all done as a vector
06:55	rhickey	what does xml-> return?
06:58	rhickey	In any case, a collection and the items in a collection need not be the same type. In one case you call first, getting the first item, in the other you don't:
06:58	rhickey	user=> (def x [1 2 3])
06:58	rhickey	#'user/x
06:58	rhickey	user=> (class x)
06:58	rhickey	class clojure.lang.PersistentVector
06:58	rhickey	user=> (class (first x))
06:58	rhickey	class java.lang.Integer
06:59	Lau_of_DK	In this case, it was (def x (zip/xml-zip (xml/parse "xmlfile.xml"))))
07:16	Lau_of_DK	Meaning, (xml-> x :problem [:title "First problem"]) should be the same as (first (xml-> :problem)) right ?
07:16	Lau_of_DK	I mean the content is completely identical, only one is wrapped in () and the other in []
07:17	rhickey	x and (first x) are 2 different things, for any x
07:17	rhickey	except nil
07:26	Lau_of_DK	Ok, then thats the thing thats confusing me, I imaged that (first '(1 2)) was the same as {:first 1 :second 2} and then taking the first value.
09:05	Chouser	Lau_of_DK: xml-> generally returns a seq of zip nodes (unless your final expression is "node" or "text")
09:06	Chouser	so the class of that will be a PersistentList or perhaps some kind of lazy list.
09:07	Chouser	calling first on it will get you a single zip node. Zip nodes are currently implemented as a PersistentVector of 2 items, but you really don't want to deal with them at that level, you just want to use the zip.clj API to manipulate them.
09:38	Lau_of_DK	Chouser, thanks alot - that made perfect sense :)
09:38	Chouser	heh, great.
10:19	bstephenson	#enclojure
12:40	scgilardi	rhickey: hi Rich. The new clj directory in svn 972 is empty.
12:48	Chouser	he speaks the truth
12:48	rhickey	try now
12:54	Chouser	looks good
12:54	rhickey	sorry about that, IntelliJ made it look like the dirs were version controlled
12:57	Chouser	svn has particular problems with moving and deleting directories
12:58	Chouser	storing metadata inside each subdirectoy turns out to be a Poor Choice.
14:25	ericthorsen	just pulled the latest down from svn and I'm getting an exception running the Repl: Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError
14:25	ericthorsen	at clojure.lang.Repl.<clinit>(Repl.java:22)
14:25	ericthorsen	Caused by: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalStateException: Var refer is unbound.
14:25	ericthorsen	at clojure.lang.RT.<clinit>(RT.java:312)
14:30	Chouser	I'm not. Did you try a clean and rebuild?
14:30	Chouser	That's just the REPL, no .clj file?
14:31	ericthorsen	Chouser: yes...clean build
14:33	ericthorsen	chouser: You are running the latest clojure.lang.Repl no problems?
14:33	Chouser	yes I am. SVN 973
14:34	ericthorsen	chouser: ok, let me try again. thx
14:34	Chouser	I've not done much with it, but a repl prompt comes up ok.
14:41	shoover	ericthorsen: Do you have anything in user.clj that calls in-ns and tries to refer?
14:42	ericthorsen	shoover: no, I just pulled the latest source using IntelliJ to build, ran the Repl and I'm getting an error....let me try a fresh pull again. Thx
15:58	meredydd	Grr.
15:59	meredydd	(and I want a pony. One that flies.)
15:59	Chouser	really? why?
15:59	meredydd	Embedded platforms suck.
16:00	Chouser	I mean, I know why you want a pony. But why class files?
16:00	meredydd	Chouser: Oh, I'm starting out with Android.
16:00	meredydd	It translates to a different VM, so you can't compile stuff dynamically
16:00	albino	ahh dalvik IIRC
16:00	meredydd	yep
16:01	Chouser	yeah, clojure would be fundamentally incompatible, wouldn't it?
16:01	albino	I was going to use the jython compiler with that, the jython project has deprecated their compiler though
16:01	Chouser	oh, does it traslate java bytecode to android bytecode or something?
16:01	meredydd	Well, not so much "fundamentally" - there's a mechanised JVM bytecode --> Dalvik conversion
16:02	meredydd	albino: They have a compiler?!
16:02	Chouser	ah, ok. I assumed android used Java source and had its own compiler.
16:02	albino	meredydd: they did for version 2.1, but like I said it's deprecated
16:02	meredydd	(hmm...wonder what the overheads are)
16:02	meredydd	albino: Bugger.
16:02	meredydd	so I'm back to sodding Java.
16:02	albino	meredydd: if you're willing to write 7 year old python code :)
16:02	meredydd	albino: Well, if it's that or Java...
16:03	albino	Nutter was saying jruby would get one, wonder if they have made much progress on that front
16:03	Chouser	heh, you could try emulating the asm API and generate Dalvik instead.
16:03	meredydd	I guess I'm just feeling ranty. I just looked at the easy, gentle introduction to JUnit
16:03	cemerick	I'd love to have a compile-to-classfile path; fasl-esque output will do well enough, though.
16:03	albino	meredydd: well yeah, between java and python I choose python, but interestingly enough the last two weeks I've met a few who would choose the opposite
16:03	meredydd	and it's TWENTY-SIX BLOODY LINES LONG.
16:04	meredydd	This to test a single method call. Heaven help you if you need a mock object.
16:04	cemerick	meredydd: clojure-contrib/test-is is the answer to your prayers :-)
16:04	Chouser	meredydd: heh. The gen-interface I checked in last night is itself not even 26 lines.
16:05	meredydd	cemerick: I know. Well, actually, I use my own, cause I started before that was released.
16:05	meredydd	cemerick: Hey, it was only 100 lines :)
16:05	cemerick	Chouser: I'm so behind the ball. gen-interface, checked in, like, where? :-P
16:05	meredydd	Chouser: Suddenly, it's so much more painful to go back :D
16:06	Chouser	cemerick: clojure-contrib. I didn't make a big announcement 'cuz it's probably not ready for prime-time. But it pretty much just works.
16:06	albino	meredydd: doesn't scala compile down to .class files
16:06	albino	acutally I'm sure of it
16:07	meredydd	albino: It does - it's on my shortlist. Dunno how terse it gets, though.
16:07	cemerick	Chouser: Fantastic.
16:07	albino	meredydd: I wasn't happy with a lot of the syntax
16:07	meredydd	(that, and their type system scares me.)
16:07	Chouser	cemerick: do you have a use for it? If so, please let me know if it looks like it's headed in the rigth direction.
16:07	cemerick	I'm actually thinking about writing a gen-interface that dumps java source, simply so that I have something to run javadoc over.
16:07	meredydd	(Oh, yeah, the half-a-ton of syntax, too. But that's gettable-used-to.)
16:08	albino	heh, gettable-used-to
16:08	cemerick	Chouser: Yes, I do. I'll have to figure out how easy (or not) it would be to hook up javadoc so that :doc metadata on interface definitions can be integrated into its output, though.
16:08	Chouser	cemerick: I'm thinking the -and-save function should actually to a load as well, so that later gen calls can have param types etc. from earlier gens.
16:09	Chouser	ah, interesting.
16:09	cemerick	Chouser: yeah, we do that as a matter of course now
16:11	Chouser	oh, you do that with gen-and-save-class?
16:13	cemerick	Yes, we have a save-gen-class macro that loads a stub of the same name and then saves the full definition. That way the gen-class spec can be colocated with code that references the generated type (as opposed to siting the specs in a -gen.clj file or something).
16:13	cemerick	I posted that macro as part of my genbean post on the google group.
16:14	Chouser	yeah, I saw it, but I didn't understand your use case well enough to make sense of it.
16:14	cemerick	In our case, we use type hints that refer to the generated class.
16:14	cemerick	...in the same file, which is the point. Makes the build process a lot simpler.
16:17	Chouser	so during build you load all your .clj files?
16:17	cemerick	Yup, with warn-on-reflection on.
16:18	Chouser	and some other flag so your app doesn't try to start up?
16:19	cemerick	we put all of our app entry points within (if command-line-args ...) forms, and bind command-line-args to nil while we load all of the .clj files.
16:19	Chouser	that's really interesting. So you catch whatever syntax errors you can at build time, as well as generating .class files where needed.
16:20	abrooks	Hm. That is interesting.
16:20	cemerick	Yup.
16:21	cemerick	I might bundle it up into an ant plugin eventually, once clojure's core settles down some.
16:21	Chouser	all without sacrificing the ability to have a repl and hot-swap code as needed later.
16:21	cemerick	There's really no other way to do it, AFAIC. There's a compiler there, one should use it. :-)
16:29	Chouser	It makes a lot of sense if you already have a build step that you run through regularly anyway. But I expect a lot of apps will need either no build step at all, or something pretty minimal to generate a .class file once in a blue moon.
16:30	cemerick	yeah, maybe. I'm pretty far away from a development environment like that, though.
17:38	cemerick	Chouser: a quick run through the javadoc sources makes me think that coercing it to emit javadoc based on anything other than .java files is folly
17:40	cemerick	a java-source-emitting gen-interface-src may be the only option, at least in my situation; your gen-interface would still be necessary during the build process though (yeesh, all this to avoid specifying method names more than once!)
17:52	Chouser	cemerick: you don't have a similar javadoc requirement for gen-class?
17:53	cemerick	Chouser: In general, no. I've not yet had occasion to introduce new :methods in a gen-class form.
17:53	Chouser	ah, I see.
17:55	cemerick	what I'm aiming for is to use a genbean-like form to emit an interface (that is javadoc-able) along with a default impl in one fell swoop. I might give gen-interface-src a try shortly...
18:01	Chouser	wow. ok.
18:02	cemerick	Chouser: either you're amazed or horrified or both :-P
18:03	Chouser	you need it to be real javadoc so your API consumers won't know you're not using Java?
18:04	cemerick	Chouser: roughly, yes. Some of them would absolutely freak out.
18:04	cemerick	That, and it's a mixed project anyway -- the other code's docs are in javadoc, and there's really no good reason to have things split up.
18:08	Chouser	dinner. bbl.
18:12	albino	heh
18:12	albino	I would love to see the freak out when they find out
18:13	albino	what the f*** are all these .clj files
18:13	albino	oh no....LISP!
18:13	cemerick	albino: they won't see any .clj files anyway ;-)
18:14	albino	cemerick: well you should do that to them at some point just for fun, have an ambulance standing by
18:15	albino	Sometimes when i go to language groups I hear people mention lisp and the reactions are kind of funny
18:15	albino	some people can't believe it still exists
18:15	albino	others feel pure horror for some reason
18:16	cemerick	well, that makes for a competitive advantage for us :-)
18:16	albino	cemerick: who are you competing with?
18:17	albino	cemerick: I should buy some of your stock so I can profit from this competitive advantage
18:17	cemerick	various other companies
19:35	jykrd	it irks me that no one is in the #scite channel
20:17	Hooke	(hi :)
20:24	jykrd	hello
20:42	Hooke	hello jykrd, how are you
20:44	Hooke	(instance? jykrd FeelingGoodPerson)
20:56	Chouser	goes the other way 'round. ;-)
21:01	Hooke	false
21:01	Hooke	(instance FeelingGoodPerson jykrd)
21:01	Hooke	true
21:02	Hooke	(doto Chouser thank)
21:02	Hooke	:)
21:21	Chouser	:-)
21:36	Hooke	reading http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2008-06-29.html
21:37	jykrd	(.person wake (/me))
21:37	jykrd	I'm good
21:38	jykrd	is there a freenode room to talk about stocks and markets? I'm looking for advice
21:41	jykrd	oh, theres a command for that
21:41	Hooke	for what?
21:41	jykrd	for searching for rooms by keyword
21:42	jykrd	/search
21:42	jykrd	or something
21:42	Hooke	aha
21:42	Hooke	dunno
21:43	Hooke	sorry :D
21:43	jykrd	it's cool
21:47	Hooke	I was wondering whether there is/will be a functional reactive programming framework (like frtime) in clojure
21:47	Hooke	are "reactive agents" something like that?
22:27	Hooke	gtg, byee
23:25	pjb3	I'm wondering how to call a Clojure function from Java, is that possible?
23:28	Chouser	sure. Repl.java calls a couple
23:29	pjb3	Chouser: I'm trying to figure out how to do the most basic hello world type thing
23:29	pjb3	some how in clojure (defn foo [] "foo)
23:30	pjb3	and then from Java call the foo function
23:30	pjb3	Compiler.eval ?
23:30	Chouser	static final Var foo = RT.var("user", "foo");
23:31	Chouser	foo.invoke()
23:31	Chouser	I think. Tell me how that goes. :-)
23:32	Chouser	oh, yeah, you've got to load your .clj first.
23:33	Chouser	Compiler.loadFile("foo.clj")
23:36	pjb3	there is no Compiler.loadFile, I tried RT.loadResourceScript("foo.clj");
23:36	pjb3	and foo.clj is in the class path
23:36	pjb3	but I get Var foo is unbound
23:45	Chouser	hm, not sure. I'm just going off of Repl.java -- I don't have my own example.
23:45	Chouser	maybe make sure that foo.clj is getting loaded? print something?
23:46	Chouser	and make sure that function foo is defined in the "user" namespace?
23:46	Chouser	that's all I've got. I'm off to bed. Hope you figure it out!
23:54	shoover1	pjb3: I got it working; my foo.clj has (clojure/in-ns 'user) at the top to make sure (defn foo ...) happens in the user namespace, as Chouser mentioned.
23:55	shoover1	Also a (clojure/refer 'clojure) to make sure defn is available.