2008-03-26
| 09:03 | bgeron | rhickey: 0install.net yes |
| 09:03 | rhickey | do people have to install it first? |
| 09:06 | bgeron | they have to install zeroinstall once, but you don't have to be root for that |
| 09:06 | rhickey | hmm... |
| 09:06 | bgeron | don't feel obliged to make a feed though :) |
| 09:07 | bgeron | you have to package your dependencies as well if you want it to work really neat, which can be a lot of work |
| 09:07 | bgeron | source implementations, compile binaries on multiple platforms if necessary |
| 09:08 | rhickey | doesn't sound like my kind of thing |
| 09:08 | rhickey | Clojure is a dev tool |
| 09:09 | bgeron | what made me lose devel-time was seeing 0launch http://quackcode.org/2008/interfaces/parrot.xml work on my box |
| 09:09 | bgeron | (won't work if you don't have ICU or are not on Linux-i486, which I'm fixing) |
| 09:57 | Chouser | surely anybody could package Clojure for 0install or any other packagin system if they really wanted to. |
| 12:00 | nsinghal_ | Rich, I am reading from the remote repl the results of my command (all-ns). The (read rdr) is trying to parse the result. I get errors: |
| 12:00 | nsinghal_ | socket=> java.lang.Exception: ReaderError:(2,1) No dispatch macro for: < |
| 12:00 | nsinghal_ | at clojure.lang.LispReader.read(LispReader.java:158) |
| 12:00 | nsinghal_ | at clojure.fns.clojure.read__425.invoke(boot.clj:1371) |
| 12:01 | nsinghal_ | then i can keep running (read rdr) and getting errors: |
| 12:01 | nsinghal_ | java.lang.Exception: ReaderError:(2,1) Invalid token: Namespace: |
| 12:01 | nsinghal_ | at clojure.lang.LispReader.read(LispReader.java:158) |
| 12:01 | nsinghal_ | at clojure.fns.clojure.read__425.invoke(boot.clj:1371) |
| 12:03 | rhickey | The output of the REPL is meant for humans, not all of it can be read with read |
| 12:04 | rhickey | So a program communicating via a Repl must take care to to execute only the fns for which the ouput can be prn'ed and read |
| 12:04 | rhickey | i.e. you'll need to write some helper functions |
| 12:07 | nsinghal_ | ok let me do that. thx |
| 12:08 | rhickey | (map #(. % name) (all-ns)) |
| 12:08 | rhickey | (xml zip clojure set user) |
| 12:08 | rhickey | like that |
| 16:30 | rhickey | repl-on-a-socket, client and server, 50 lines: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Clojure_Programming#Examples |
| 17:17 | rhickey | Nice blog entry on Clojure: http://bendiken.net/2008/03/26/finding-clojure |
| 17:31 | Chouser | what do you think about continuations? Pretty much impossible with how Clojure uses the JVM stack? |
| 17:43 | rhickey | I'm not a fan of continuations as a practical programming feature |
| 17:49 | rhickey | and a no go on the JVM stack |
| 17:50 | Chouser | yeah, ok. |
| 17:56 | rhickey | TCO I'd take in a heartneat |
| 17:56 | rhickey | heartbeat |
| 17:58 | rhickey | http://blogs.sun.com/gbracha/entry/will_continuations_continue |
| 22:04 | jonathan_ | Oh rhickey, the proxy stuff kicks ass btw! I managed to use it to render JTables exactly like my legacy C++ grids in a work demo... ;) |
| 22:04 | jonathan_ | Go subclassing! |
| 22:06 | rhickey | Great! |
| 22:09 | jonathan_ | And I ported my RPCish code to .NET this morning so my developers will be calling a Clojure/Oracle backend from .NET GUIs ... I think they are a bit freaked out by seeing someone write a IVBSAXContentHandler and get it working inside about 2 hours |
| 22:10 | jonathan_ | hehe ... I suspect it would take me a week to get anywhere at all with WCF, not that I would ever try |
| 22:11 | rhickey | fun |
| 22:11 | jonathan_ | What's your background Rich? I'm assuming you haven't had to put up with any Business Consulting ... |
| 22:14 | rhickey | scheduling, yield management, audio fingerprinting, broadcast automation, election projection and most recent, machine listening and cochlear modeling |
| 22:15 | jonathan_ | what sort of scheduling? |
| 22:16 | rhickey | music and advertising scheduling for broadcasters |
| 22:17 | jonathan_ | dandelionradio.com <-- best internet radio ever (aside) |
| 22:18 | jonathan_ | interesting, I was at Queens Medical center early 90's, they did some cochlear implants there I think ... never got to work on that though, though my background is medical physics |
| 22:19 | rhickey | this is strictly modeling for machine hearing, not assistive |
| 22:19 | jonathan_ | ahh ok, what's the goals for machine listening? |
| 22:20 | rhickey | automated polyphonic music transcription |
| 22:20 | jonathan_ | wow, that really sounds like a lot of fun |
| 22:20 | rhickey | yup |
| 22:21 | rhickey | unsolved problem territory |
| 22:21 | jonathan_ | yeah, I think I've figured out, that making users happy (gas pipeline schedulers and shippers in my case), is what makes me happy |
| 22:21 | jonathan_ | yeah, breaking new ground is cool |
| 22:23 | jonathan_ | (for the smart kids) |
| 22:23 | jonathan_ | but in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king ... |
| 22:25 | rhickey | heh |
| 22:27 | jonathan_ | there's some interesting applications using doppler ultrasound to listen for high speed bloodflow at the edges of tumor vascularization |
| 22:27 | jonathan_ | I'm sure there's loads of 'listening to' structures applications too |
| 22:29 | rhickey | yeah, I'm interested in modeling musicians, who need to 'hear', and long-term, musical memory |
| 22:29 | jonathan_ | what do you play? |
| 22:29 | rhickey | guitar |
| 22:30 | rhickey | and you? |
| 22:30 | jonathan_ | yeah, I play bass, but it's more of a disability, than an actual ability. I own a guitar though |
| 22:30 | jonathan_ | I wish I had time to pick it up |
| 22:31 | jonathan_ | I'm sure playing a real instrument makes you hear differently |
| 22:32 | rhickey | hearing is an amazing sense, and very tough to model |
| 22:33 | jonathan_ | how can you know if you are modeling it accurately? |
| 22:33 | rhickey | when the model can discern what I can, it works |
| 22:34 | rhickey | but biological viability is secondary for my work |
| 22:35 | rhickey | still, I have hair cells and and a neural net |
| 22:36 | jonathan_ | if I analyze my own voice, I see 3 or 4 distinct traces, I assume that corresponds to vocal chords? |
| 22:40 | rhickey | depending on the resolution of your trace, they're either harmonics, or more coarsely, formant regions |
| 22:41 | rhickey | My model has thousands of hair cells |
| 22:41 | jonathan_ | ok, I had no idea, I should hit wikipedia |
| 22:43 | jonathan_ | simulated hair cells? |
| 22:43 | jonathan_ | moving around in the fluid in the cochlea? |
| 22:44 | rhickey | right |
| 22:49 | rhickey | was doing Mathematica and C++, now moving most of it to Clojure |
| 22:54 | jonathan_ | yeah, that makes sense, the JVM has a lot going for it, performance and ease of deployment, once you remove the jre1.3 from the xp path ... well for us windows users, anyway |
| 22:55 | jonathan_ | Java numerics have a bad rep though? |
| 22:56 | jonathan_ | FUD? |
| 22:57 | rhickey | well, I'm working on building a bridge to the Intel Performance Primitives for the lowest-level part of the filters |
| 22:58 | rhickey | thousands of hair cells x 44kHz sampling rate |
| 22:58 | rhickey | lots of crunching |
| 22:59 | jonathan_ | wow, sounds amazing |
| 23:02 | albino | [02:22] <mnestic> funny that cloujure is on the JVM :-) you should convince him to re-write the VM in C ... a little healthy competition. |
| 23:02 | albino | The #factor guys are talking about cloujure |
| 23:04 | jonathan_ | It's in SVN, they could port it, ... or fork dotLisp ... ;) |
| 23:04 | rhickey | yikes |
| 23:05 | rhickey | I would never try to write Clojure in c/c++ |
| 23:07 | rhickey | huge benefits to sharing memory model. GC and type system with implementation language |
| 23:14 | albino | yeah |
| 23:14 | albino | factor started out on the jvm |
| 23:15 | jonathan_ | I love Swing ... after using MFC then WinForms |
| 23:17 | rhickey | I don't know too much about factor |