#clojure logs

2008-02-24

05:12bagglesi'm wondering if it's a case of RT.init() needing to be run in the main thread, but it's not happening...
05:22baggleshm
11:49baggleshm
11:49bagglesthis policy stuff is turning into a pita
11:54rhickey_can you do what you need to do with Java Web Start? (although I guess that also has permissions...)
11:56baggleserm
11:56bagglesi haven't looked into that
11:56bagglesstandalone though
11:56bagglesmight as well just distribute a jar file at that rate
11:57bagglesi would really like an applet scenario
11:57rhickey_I think Sun is striving to make JWS as slick as Flash
11:58baggleshm. but it is for standalone applications right? the target being that you essentially are just ensuring that the client has a (suitable) jvm installed.
12:00rhickey_it's not for in-page embedding, but also has zero-install, dynamic loading, incremental updating properties
12:00baggleshttp://java.sun.com/sfaq/#appletSM i'm wondering if this basically means clojure is not applet-able
12:03baggleshm
12:04bagglesi have a thought actually. those applets for things like menalto's gallery
12:31bgeronbaggles: if you can make one .jar out of an app, why can't you applet it?
12:33bagglesyeah
12:33bagglesi would have too
12:34baggleshttp://hobbiton.homelinux.net/clojuretests/ClojureAppletTest1.html well here's my self-signed applet, but i get that java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.lang.RuntimePermission createClassLoader) on trying RT.init();
12:34rhickey_yup, it seems the prohibition on applets creating their own classloaders nixes Clojure as applet
12:35bagglesyeah
12:35baggleswell this thread post seems to confirm that
12:35baggleshttp://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=531684&messageID=2562241
12:35bagglesbut it also mentions that maybe you can "install your own security manager (which allows classloader creation) with the signed applet"
12:35bagglesexactly what that means though, i'm not sure.
12:36bagglesi got that, and a few other useful results on googling: applet signed createclassloader
12:38bgerondo you need to sign it?
12:38bgeronare you storing files or something?
12:38bagglesno, but well i was trying to sign it in order to allow more permissions.
12:38baggleswell, i don't know, but signing or not hasn't solved my problems, put it that way
12:38bgeronyou're not getting those permissions from me o:)
12:38bgeronthe user must trust you anyway :)
12:39bagglessure
12:39baggleswell i'll show you the source code if you want
12:39baggleswell, it's all in there anyway
12:40baggleshttp://hobbiton.homelinux.net/clojuretests/clojuredispatch/DispatchApplet.java
12:40bagglesheh
12:41bagglesanyway. i just wanted it !=white so you could see that there was something there
12:41bagglesnor has dict
12:42bagglesoh btw rhickey_ i've commented out the try and finally in RT.init to get around not getting the right error.
12:43bgeroncould you give the sentence?
12:43baggles17:31 < rhickey_> yup, it seems the prohibition on applets creating their own classloaders nixes Clojure as applet
12:43bgeronah
12:43bgeronin Dutch, 'niks' means 'nothing' so I can guess the meaning
12:44rhickey_http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/nix
12:44bagglesoh thanks
12:45baggleshm. this is a real shame. i was hoping i had the ultimate ... and could using clojure with processing
12:50bgeronprocessing what?
12:50baggleshttp://www.processing.org/
16:41alpheuswhen is the :test fn in the metadata of a def form invoked? "uses assert to check various operations"
16:43rhickeyYou can call it whenever, there is a utility fn test which calls it, see (doc test)...
16:44rhickeyI presume larger test harnesses will be built atop this
16:53alpheusdoc doesn't seem to be in this build (20080213)
16:53rhickeyno, in SVN
17:56jonathan__I posted up a couple of listings on jonathanwatmough.com
17:56jonathan__All the life has been sucked out of my by trying to make sound/java work in windows
17:57jonathan__The documents lie!
19:17rhickeyjonathan: looks neat! (I'm an audio guy too)
19:42jonathan__thanks Rich, I stuck on creating arrays for a bit ... will 'into-array' always create an array of boxes?
19:44rhickeyyes - the only way to create arrays of primitives is make-array
19:55jonathan__it'd be nice if someone could put a sound object browser together that would work x platform
19:56jonathan__more of an api explorer I guess
20:49alpheus(false? nil) => false
20:50rhickeynil is not the value false
20:51rhickey(= false nil) -> false
20:52alpheusthe section 'nil' at http://clojure.sourceforge.net/reference/data_structures.html leaves me confused, then
20:54rhickeyhow so
20:56alpheus(and nil) returns nil, when I expected false. since "nil and false representing the values of logical falsity in conditional tests"
20:59rhickeyand is defined to return the first logical false value it encounters, in this case it's nil
21:00alpheusI'm sorry, I'm looking for the definition of false? I suspect I misread it and it compares for equality to false, not for logical falseness, as I thought.
21:01rhickeyright, false? is about equality to false, since if already tests for logical truth
21:02alpheusthanks, and sorry for the distraction
22:20alpheusIs anyone porting swank to clojure? I'd enjoy doing that.
22:35rhickey_not afaik